Who will blink first, Suns or Mavs?

[BillsCarnage]

These two teams have been putting on quite a performance the first half of the season with neither wanting to give up any ground.

When you think the Mavs might lose, they find a way to win; the Suns doing likewise. Both teams have put together two long winning streaks.

It's going to be a fun second half as these two battle for home court advantage, but in the end it really doesn't matter to either of them because they both know they can win on the road.

[Amare_32]

Both teams will still want to get homecourt and don't count out the Spurs. Whichever team wins the West will more than likely have HCA in the Finals against whatever team wins the east.
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[ponky]

Haha, the Suns barely got that win in Houston tonight...it wasn't until the third quarter that I realized T-Mac was a DNP for the game. Damn, if he had played, Rockets would've easily won that game.

[RonMexico]

Haha, the Suns barely got that win in Houston tonight...it wasn't until the third quarter that I realized T-Mac was a DNP for the game. Damn, if he had played, Rockets would've easily won that game.

Because he didn't play, the Suns came out flat. Suns beat the Rockets by 11 last time and T-Mac and Yao were both in the lineup. This time it was a 9-point victory, but the runs they had in the 2nd and 3rd quarters were things of beauty. At least they didn't have to count on Devean George winning it (wink)...

[Sacramental]

i sure do like pumpkins, RonMexico.

[Texas_Ranger]

Mavs.

[ponky]

i sure do like pumpkins, RonMexico.

haha, nice

[ponky]

Mavs.

hey, at least that means we're alive, whereas your team...

[JMarkJohns]

Haha, the Suns barely got that win in Houston tonight...it wasn't until the third quarter that I realized T-Mac was a DNP for the game. Damn, if he had played, Rockets would've easily won that game.

Don't start this logic, ponky. It's flawed. Alston gave them McGrady's requesite 20+. He doesn't go for 29 if McGrady jacks up 25 shots.

Also, I wouldn't be talking about needing an extended period of time to get up for some lesser games, as I believe Dallas barely escaped its Sunday game against Toronto with the win, but more importantly, didn't claim a lead until very late in the fourth quarter.

Good for one, good for all...


As for the question? No telling. Each team is for real and each have a legit shot at 60+ wins.

[Amarelooms]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Suns get the best record in the NBA...they are just hard to beat in the regular season and lately have faced teams when key people are out. Think the Mavs still beat em even if they have to win one in Phoenix come playoff time

[2Cleva]

Phoenix is going to fall apart before too long. Look at all the minutes the key guys play. In my daily look at boxscores I see this beauty for Phoenix last night against a short-handed Houston team.

Minutes
Diaw - 24
Marion - 44
Amare - 41
Nash - 37
Bell - 41
Barbosa - 35
Jones - 18
Everyone else - DNP-CD


And thats it. 7 players. In January. Maybe I'm making too much of the issue. Maybe Phoenix will have plenty in the tank come playoff time to whoop everyone's ass. But if not, they are slitting their own throat.

[Bookit]

I keep waiting for Nash to wear down but it just isn't going to happen. The way it looks now, Nash might play until he is 40! And D'Antoni must be an offensive genius. The whole system is based on rhythm. He can plug anybody in that system and they automatically become a spectacular 3 point shooter. Quinten Richardson, Tim Thomas, Jumaine Jones, it doesn't matter. Just stick them in there and, in rhythm, they can hit all the shots the need.

If I was an opposing coach, I would play zone against the Suns most of the game as that get them out of rhythm and the shots won't fall as often. Don't get me wrong, they will still hit shots and Stoudmire might have a great series, but all those outside shooters wouldn't be as good against the zone. Remember, the Heat beat the Mavs last year by playing zone most of the time. Teams should do the same agains the Suns.

It will be interesting.

[SoCal Lakeshow]

Phoenix is going to fall apart before too long. Look at all the minutes the key guys play. In my daily look at boxscores I see this beauty for Phoenix last night against a short-handed Houston team.

Minutes
Diaw - 24
Marion - 44
Amare - 41
Nash - 37
Bell - 41
Barbosa - 35
Jones - 18
Everyone else - DNP-CD


And thats it. 7 players. In January. Maybe I'm making too much of the issue. Maybe Phoenix will have plenty in the tank come playoff time to whoop everyone's ass. But if not, they are slitting their own throat.
:lol :lol

At the stupid Suns coaches.

[u2sarajevo]

Phoenix doesn't play alot of the bench most games and that hasn't changed since Nash arrived. I think their conditioning is such that they have gotten used to it.

As much as I hate to slight the Spurs, the Suns are the number one enemy now.

I've heard all the arguments against the Suns (defense, built for regular season, players overplayed, etc..) but the fact remains that they are consistently kicking teams butts and have gotten to the WCF for two years running. One of those without Amare.

Amare is back. And if that doesn't scare you as a Mav fan you need to take your blinders off.

[ponky]

Don't start this logic, ponky. It's flawed. Alston gave them McGrady's requesite 20+. He doesn't go for 29 if McGrady jacks up 25 shots.

Also, I wouldn't be talking about needing an extended period of time to get up for some lesser games, as I believe Dallas barely escaped its Sunday game against Toronto with the win, but more importantly, didn't claim a lead until very late in the fourth quarter.

Good for one, good for all...


As for the question? No telling. Each team is for real and each have a legit shot at 60+ wins.

The logic is the same as all the Suns fan whining about how Amare wasn't around last season. The difference, which you conveniently left out is that had T-Mac played, there would've been one more very, very good shooter to cover defensively, makes the job harder for the Suns on D. Mavs suck ass in noon time games and playing against a team with Chris Bosh and some good guys like Bargnani, Garbajosa and Calderon is not quite the same as playing against a team with Rafer Alston, Luther Head and Battier.

[Nashfan]

^^Oh give me a break ponky! Now I really know you are clueless!!

[Amarelooms]

^^Oh give me a break ponky! Now I really know you are clueless!!

She is always right and perfect. I love Ponky.....please be my baby momma :fro

[Nashfan]

^^And you are an idiot!

[P-O-Z]

suns i have a slight feeling they will win it all

[Greg Oden]

fillmoe and i would like to see ponky naked

[johngateswhiteley]

here's a thought, which of these teams will win the title?

answer: i'll give you a hint...neither. lol.

[Amarelooms]

here's a thought, which of these teams will win the title?

answer: i'll give you a hint...neither. lol.

Hahaha well it sure won't be the Spurs.....

[ponky]

^^Oh give me a break ponky! Now I really know you are clueless!!

Wow, you actually made a nice argument..........not. It's really pretty simple why it matters that T-Mac didn't play, if you can't figure it out, I can't help you, watch basketball for a couple of more years and then get back to me. Oh wait, you're a Suns fan, you think anything is possible. :rolleyes

[SoCal Lakeshow]

Yeah honestly if anybody thinks that not having McGrady doesn't hurt the Rockets or make them easier to defend is an idiot.

[Nashfan]

Ponky and SCLakeshow:

We played the Rockets with Yao and Tracy earlier in the year and beat them. What is your excuse for getting blown out by the Rockets with both Yao and Tracy playing. And a funny stat against both of your teams is that Tracy only scored eight points against both of your teams but both of your teams were blown out (though Mavs were blown out by thirty-one points). So, I think it is safe to say that the Suns were not excited about playing the Rockets without both of their best players. Not a good habit that I would endorse but it would explain them having to fight harder than usual against the Rockets in that game. Ponky, when the Rockets played you last, Tracy basically took most of the shots thus alienating most of his team and making them bystanders and eventually he wore out ( much like Kobe has done in the past), yet you only beat them by thirteen points, so no great accomplishment. So, your point makes no sense. By the way, I am no rookie to the game of basketball either. :rolleyes

[SoCal Lakeshow]

Ponky and SCLakeshow:

We played the Rockets with Yao and Tracy earlier in the year and beat them. What is your excuse for getting blown out by the Rockets with both Yao and Tracy playing. And a funny stat against both of your teams is that Tracy only scored eight points against both of your teams but both of your teams were blown out (though Mavs were blown out by thirty-one points). So, I think it is safe to say that the Suns were not excited about playing the Rockets without both of their best players. Not a good habit that I would endorse but it would explain them having to fight harder than usual against the Rockets in that game. Ponky, when the Rockets played you last, Tracy basically took most of the shots thus alienating most of his team and making them bystanders and eventually he wore out ( much like Kobe has done in the past), yet you only beat them by thirteen points, so no great accomplishment. So, your point makes no sense. By the way, I am no rookie to the game of basket either. :rolleyes
If you wanna talk shit about beating the elite teams. You have to actually beat the elite teams first.

[Nashfan]

^^Geez, what an original post! :rolleyes

[SoCal Lakeshow]

^^Geez, what an original post! :rolleyes
:lol Truth hurts.

[Nashfan]

^^Guess the truth hurts when the Lakers could not even beat a depleted Suns team in the playoffs last year. :lol

[SoCal Lakeshow]

^^Guess the truth hurts when the Lakers could not even beat a depleted Suns team in the playoffs last year. :lol
The Lakers were a 7 seed and still got within a rebound against you guys. The fact that Kwame was looking like Wilt in that series is something to :lol about.

[u2sarajevo]

Rest of January -

Suns:

Portland (19-21)
Minnesota (20-17)
@Washington (22-16)
@New York (17-23)
@Milwaukee (17-21)
@Cleveland (23-15)
@Minnesota (20-17)

Mavs:

@Miami (18-20)
@Orlando (22-17)
@Chicago (23-17)
Sacramento (14-22)
Seattle (15-25)
@Memphis (10-30)

Mavs have it easier but not in the beginning. Suns have 2 back-to-backs but mostly playing against Eastern conference teams. Washington was the last team to beat the Suns not named Dallas.

I'll say the Mavs probably slip up @Orlando or @Chicago so they will be first. If they slip up sunday there are going to be alot of Mav fans laying in bathtubs with wrists slit....

Sunday is our day of relief, if you can get relief from the debacle of the Finals.

[Nashfan]

If you call Kwame's stats comparable to Wilt then you are just plain clueless. :lol Did you just happen to forget that two very important frontline players were out for the Suns? Such as Amare, who would have owned Kwame in that series offensively and Kurt Thomas would have done wonders against Kwame on the defensive end. We had to play 6' 8" Diaw against Kwame and we still beat the Lakers. Don't use the excuse that we had Tim Thomas last year, he is not known to be a defensive specialist at all. :rolleyes I am not saying your team is not that good this year, actually they look a lot better than last year but we are also a lot better this year with Amare and hopefully Kurt coming back in time for the playoffs.

[Nashfan]

U2, I would not call Miami that great of threat to the Mavs right now. They are not even above .500 at this time. You will be able to beat them.

[u2sarajevo]

U2, I would not call Miami that great of threat to the Mavs right now. They are not even above .500 at this time. You will be able to beat them.Well... we should be able to beat any team. But it doesn't always happen that way as I'm sure you are aware.

If it does happen.... I'm staying away from d-m.com for awhile thats for sure. (okay, that's probably a lie...)

I don't think it will happen either though. I am certain the fans aren't the only one's wanting some semblance of "revenge". Although, given that Shaq isn't going to play a win won't mean as much.... not in the heart of this Mav fan anyway.

But any day my team beats Antoine Cancer's team is a good day indeed.

[SoCal Lakeshow]

If you call Kwame's stats comparable to Wilt then you are just plain clueless. :lol Did you just happen to forget that two very important frontline players were out for the Suns? Such as Amare, who would have owned Kwame in that series offensively and Kurt Thomas would have done wonders against Kwame on the defensive end. We had to play 6' 8" Diaw against Kwame and we still beat the Lakers. Don't use the excuse that we had Tim Thomas last year, he is not known to be a defensive specialist at all. :rolleyes I am not saying your team is not that good this year, actually they look a lot better than last year but we are also a lot better this year with Amare and hopefully Kurt coming back in time for the playoffs.
It was a joke. :lol

But he did kill you guys. That's also when Mihm went down for us so we were also weak in the paint. As for Amare owning Kwame I'm not so sure about that. He will get his, but he won't be owning Kwame. His specialty is defense. Don't forget about Lamar. You guys still have no answer for him. And with Bynum one year better and much improved I see him being very effective against you guys. The Suns are a very good team, but they have still to prove it. I think the jury is still out on them till they start playing the top teams in the West.

[Nashfan]

^^ I gave your team their props in post #32 but that is all I will give you. :lol

[Nashfan]

Oh, by the way I don't think Kwame killed us last year, it was more like Odom who gave us trouble.

[SoCal Lakeshow]

Oh, by the way I don't think Kwame killed us last year, it was more like Odom who gave us trouble.
It was a dual-headed monster. :elephant :clap :clap

[Nashfan]

^^No, not really, but you go on having those dreams. :clap

[SoCal Lakeshow]

^^No, not really, but you go on having those dreams. :clap
:dizzy :dizzy

[Xylus]

Odom kicked our ass in last year's playoffs.

Kwame Brown, however, did not.

[Nashfan]

^^ :clap

[SoCal Lakeshow]

Odom kicked our ass in last year's playoffs.

Kwame Brown, however, did not.
How quickly we forget.

[Nashfan]

^^What? Just how bad Kwame is and cannot catch the ball! :lol

[SoCal Lakeshow]

^^What? Just how bad Kwame is and cannot catch the ball! :lol
The point is not that Kwame is gonna take it to you guys. The point is that you can't defend the paint. Until you prove you can, you're still considered pretenders.

[Nashfan]

^^Like your team defended the paint so well last night and got murdered on the boards? Guess your team is a pretender then? :lmao

[SoCal Lakeshow]

^^Like your team defended the paint so well last night and got murdered on the boards? Guess your team is a pretender then? :lmao
Without Odom and Kwame we will get killed on the glass. But we're not the ones starting threads about how great our team is.

[Nashfan]

^^Right, have you ever been to the site ClubLakers.com? From some of the threads on there you would have thought they had won the championship already! :rolleyes I know a Suns fan started this thread but I think his intention was to see which team would lose first since they both only have eight losses. Not sure, you will have to ask him. I think our team is very good but has faults like all teams do. All of us won't know who is better until the playoffs start and then the real games begin. :ihit

[Nashfan]

Ponky,

Cat got your tongue?

[Nashfan]

Ponky;

You must be doing a lot of research right now I guess. I am going to bed. Talk at you some other time.

[ponky]

Ponky and SCLakeshow:

We played the Rockets with Yao and Tracy earlier in the year and beat them. What is your excuse for getting blown out by the Rockets with both Yao and Tracy playing. And a funny stat against both of your teams is that Tracy only scored eight points against both of your teams but both of your teams were blown out (though Mavs were blown out by thirty-one points). So, I think it is safe to say that the Suns were not excited about playing the Rockets without both of their best players. Not a good habit that I would endorse but it would explain them having to fight harder than usual against the Rockets in that game. Ponky, when the Rockets played you last, Tracy basically took most of the shots thus alienating most of his team and making them bystanders and eventually he wore out ( much like Kobe has done in the past), yet you only beat them by thirteen points, so no great accomplishment. So, your point makes no sense. By the way, I am no rookie to the game of basket either. :rolleyes

You played with Yao and Tracy IN PHOENIX, where your team has a very impressive record, 18-4. The Rockets too have a pretty damn good home record IN HOUSTON, 13-4. The haven't played as many games at home as the Suns have but they both have the same number of losses which is what's important at home, minimize the losses at home. LOTS of your fellow Suns fans like to point out that your team wasn't gelling in the first two weeks or so of the season for SEVERAL reasons. Same could be said for the Mavericks who lost in Houston, not Dallas, where we pwn and lost the first four games of the season, not just to the Rockets...an aberration on the Mavs' season as a whole? Most likely. Your last point about T-Mac taking all the shots in the last game? Yes he did, and that's probably why the spread was only 13 points, which btw, for most teams would be a big win. Rockets took 75 field goals as opposed to the 89 shots taken in the Suns game...the breakdown?

Juwan Howard: 11 FGA against the Mavs, 10 FGA against the Suns
Luther Head: 10 FGA against the Mavs, 12 FA against the Suns
Shane Battier: 7 FGA against the Mavs, 12 FGA against the Suns

here's where you're right:

Rafer Alston: 10 FGA against the Mavs, 25 FGA against the Suns

here's where you're wrong about T-Mac:

John Lucas: 4 FGA against the Mavs (6 min), TEN (2-10) FGAs against the Suns (20 min)

Lucas' season stats? 2006-07 Statistics

PPG
4.1
RPG
1.20
APG
0.8

To whom do you think those shots plus some of the extra 89 FGAs would've gone to had Lucas not played and T-Mac had? Remember, the Rockets shot 89 FGAs against the Suns as opposed to 75 against the Mavericks so there were Lucas' ten shots and minutes plus some to go around without even touching the other player's FGA numbers.

[ponky]

Ponky,

Cat got your tongue?

I like to be thorough in my pwnage so yes, I was looking up stats. I thought you were going to sleep? I see that was just for *effect*

Umm, I know you were in here when I posted the response so where did you go?

[Fillmoe]

take it easy on suns fans ponky they are almost as fragile as mavs fans......

[SoCal Lakeshow]

^^Right, have you ever been to the site ClubLakers.com? From some of the threads on there you would have thought they had won the championship already! :rolleyes I know a Suns fan started this thread but I think his intention was to see which team would lose first since they both only have eight losses. Not sure, you will have to ask him. I think our team is very good but has faults like all teams do. All of us won't know who is better until the playoffs start and then the real games begin. :ihit
Is this ClubLakers? If I wanted some homer B.S. then I would go to one of those bullshit sites.

[ponky]

take it easy on suns fans ponky they are almost as fragile as mavs fans......

haha, that's rough. alright, i'm off to eat some dinner and get some work done, have a good night fillmoe!

eidt: i'll still be here though...my work involves my laptop!

[Fillmoe]

haha, that's rough. alright, i'm off to eat some dinner and get some work done, have a good night fillmoe!

eidt: i'll still be here though...my work involves my laptop!


dinner this late = bad dieting.......

[ponky]

dinner this late = bad dieting.......


not when i go to sleep around 5 AM...i work out an hour each day so it's cool

[SoCal Lakeshow]

not when i go to sleep around 5 AM...i work out an hour each day so it's cool
Are you a vampire or what?

[Fillmoe]

Are you a vampire or what?


even worse.... shes a mavs fan

[ponky]

Are you a vampire or what?

nah, i'm a student with very few classes in my semester of law school that i don't really have to attend and i'm also a web designer so my work is at home. i'm just finishing law school to appease my parents, i'm sticking with web design because i like my schedule and i'll maybe do soem PI work if it's not early in the morning!

[SoCal Lakeshow]

even worse.... shes a mavs fan
Well we havn't met the Mavs in the playoffs that I can remember, so I havn't built any hate for them yet. But I have a feeling from reading a bunch of these posts from Mavs fans, that might have to change.

[Fillmoe]

law school?





































you single?

[SoCal Lakeshow]

nah, i'm a student with very few classes in my semester of law school that i don't really have to attend and i'm also a web designer so my work is at home. i'm just finishing law school to appease my parents, i'm sticking with web design because i like my schedule and i'll maybe do soem PI work if it's not early in the morning!
Cool. I thought of going into law and took some law classes at the local JC. I really enjoyed it, very interesting stuff. Difficult but interesting. JC is a joke compared to law school so I can imagine how busy you must be. No wonder you don't sleep.

[ponky]

law school?




you single?


haha no, i have a mavs fan man to feed, he's a musician

[Fillmoe]

fuck..... you woulda made me sign a prenup anyway...........

[ponky]

Cool. I thought of going into law and took some law classes at the local JC. I really enjoyed it, very interesting stuff. Difficult but interesting. JC is a joke compared to law school so I can imagine how busy you must be. No wonder you don't sleep.

only the first year was hard, i transferred from a school in nyc. third year is a breeze. the material is interesting but can be boring, the students were not that cool though. i found a group in nyc and a group at u.t. that i like but most of the students are uptight and disinterested in most other things. i'm a classical musician as well so i hang with that crowd

[SoCal Lakeshow]

fuck..... you woulda made me sign a prenup anyway...........
:lol :lol

[RonMexico]

Yeah, the law school kids at UT suck balls

[Doug Collins]

Yeah, the law school kids at UT suck balls


I dont know if you know this but they're kinda a big deal.

[ponky]

haha, Nashfan, way to respond buddy, especially after all the drama last night.

[Nashfan]

You played with Yao and Tracy IN PHOENIX, where your team has a very impressive record, 18-4. The Rockets too have a pretty damn good home record IN HOUSTON, 13-4. The haven't played as many games at home as the Suns have but they both have the same number of losses which is what's important at home, minimize the losses at home. LOTS of your fellow Suns fans like to point out that your team wasn't gelling in the first two weeks or so of the season for SEVERAL reasons. Same could be said for the Mavericks who lost in Houston, not Dallas, where we pwn and lost the first four games of the season, not just to the Rockets...an aberration on the Mavs' season as a whole? Most likely. Your last point about T-Mac taking all the shots in the last game? Yes he did, and that's probably why the spread was only 13 points, which btw, for most teams would be a big win. Rockets took 75 field goals as opposed to the 89 shots taken in the Suns game...the breakdown?

Juwan Howard: 11 FGA against the Mavs, 10 FGA against the Suns
Luther Head: 10 FGA against the Mavs, 12 FA against the Suns
Shane Battier: 7 FGA against the Mavs, 12 FGA against the Suns

here's where you're right:

Rafer Alston: 10 FGA against the Mavs, 25 FGA against the Suns

here's where you're wrong about T-Mac:

John Lucas: 4 FGA against the Mavs (6 min), TEN (2-10) FGAs against the Suns (20 min)

Lucas' season stats? 2006-07 Statistics

PPG
4.1
RPG
1.20
APG
0.8

To whom do you think those shots plus some of the extra 89 FGAs would've gone to had Lucas not played and T-Mac had? Remember, the Rockets shot 89 FGAs against the Suns as opposed to 75 against the Mavericks so there were Lucas' ten shots and minutes plus some to go around without even touching the other player's FGA numbers.

To make this real simple, let's assume that McGrady did play us on Jan. 17 and the minutes were divided up exactly the same as in your game against them on Jan. 16. Let's further assume that McGrady's point production was the same, in fact let's assume that the Rockets total score was ninety-six points against us. They still would have lost by four points to the Suns. Now before you say, "But you let them shoot eighty-nine times not seventy-five times, so you would have to allow for a few more points being scored." I would have to respond that even taking fourteen more shots against us than in your game with them they would have made only one more basket. I arrive at this because when we played the Rockets on Nov. 29 we held the combination of McGrady and Yao to a total of only 15 made field goals out of 37 attempts, significantly below McGrady's production in your last game against the Rockets. Interestingly, in both the Suns games against the Rockets we allowed them to attempt eighty-nine shots. On January 17 the Rockets made thirty-five shots for a field goal percentage of 39.3%, and for the November 29 game they made thirty-four shots for a field goal percentage of 38.2%. Noticing another fact, the Rockets made thirty-four shots against the Mavs but their field goal percentage was 45.3%. It doesn't seem to matter who is in the Rockets lineup against us, we consistently hold them to a much lower field goal percentage than the Mavs. :bang

[Nashfan]

haha, Nashfan, way to respond buddy, especially after all the drama last night.


I have a life unlike you it seems and was busy all day today so my response was a little late. :rolleyes Look it over.

[Amarelooms]

haha, Nashfan, way to respond buddy, especially after all the drama last night.

How about regular updates about what you're wearing miss lawyer?

[mavsfan1000]

How about regular updates about what you're wearing miss lawyer?
lol I might hit it. Don't know. :dizzy

[RonMexico]

To make this real simple, let's assume that McGrady did play us on Jan. 17 and the minutes were divided up exactly the same as in your game against them on Jan. 16. Let's further assume that McGrady's point production was the same, in fact let's assume that the Rockets total score was ninety-six points against us. They still would have lost by four points to the Suns. Now before you say, "But you let them shoot eighty-nine times not seventy-five times, so you would have to allow for a few more points being scored." I would have to respond that even taking fourteen more shots against us than in your game with them they would have made only one more basket. I arrive at this because when we played the Rockets on Nov. 29 we held the combination of McGrady and Yao to a total of only 15 made field goals out of 37 attempts, significantly below McGrady's production in your last game against the Rockets. Interestingly, in both the Suns games against the Rockets we allowed them to attempt eighty-nine shots. On January 17 the Rockets made thirty-five shots for a field goal percentage of 39.3%, and for the November 29 game they made thirty-four shots for a field goal percentage of 38.2%. Noticing another fact, the Rockets made thirty-four shots against the Mavs but their field goal percentage was 45.3%. It doesn't seem to matter who is in the Rockets lineup against us, we consistently hold them to a much lower field goal percentage than the Mavs. :bang

This post is pure gold. Unfortunately, you included statistics, which every Mavs fan on this forum will tell you it means nothing. Unless, of course, by "statistic" they mean 0-3 against SA and Dallas.

They also ignore the fact that the Suns could have beat a Denver team that didn't have AI, Andre Miller, Melo, JR Smith and, therefore, be .5 GB Dallas for the best record in the NBA.

I also realized that 0-3 against SA/Dallas doesn't mean shit because in the event of a tie, the league doesn't use head-to-head matchups to see which team gets the #1 seed. It's actually based on the teams' looks and we all know Josh Howard (with retainer), Devean George, Dirk, Erika, Harris, Diop, MBenga, and Caveman are the ugliest players in the league, so the Suns win that in a landslide. Oh, wait... I was wrong, the league bases it on stats like conference record... it's so weird the league would use statistics to make a decision.

The irony of Mavs fans is when they blast D'Antoni for his short rotation and coaching on "court chemistry" and then equally blast any Suns fan that uses stats to back up an argument.

[RonMexico]

And, ponky, btw - the Suns have an 18-3 home record, which means they have as many losses at home as the Mavs do... not the Rockets.

[Nashfan]

This post is pure gold. Unfortunately, you included statistics, which every Mavs fan on this forum will tell you it means nothing. Unless, of course, by "statistic" they mean 0-3 against SA and Dallas.

They also ignore the fact that the Suns could have beat a Denver team that didn't have AI, Andre Miller, Melo, JR Smith and, therefore, be .5 GB Dallas for the best record in the NBA.

I also realized that 0-3 against SA/Dallas doesn't mean shit because in the event of a tie, the league doesn't use head-to-head matchups to see which team gets the #1 seed. It's actually based on the teams' looks and we all know Josh Howard (with retainer), Devean George, Dirk, Erika, Harris, Diop, MBenga, and Caveman are the ugliest players in the league, so the Suns win that in a landslide. Oh, wait... I was wrong, the league bases it on stats like conference record... it's so weird the league would use statistics to make a decision.

The irony of Mavs fans is when they blast D'Antoni for his short rotation and coaching on "court chemistry" and then equally blast any Suns fan that uses stats to back up an argument.

:clap

[Nashfan]

And, ponky, btw - the Suns have an 18-3 home record, which means they have as many losses at home as the Mavs do... not the Rockets.


Good one RonMexico! :lol

[Nashfan]

Hey Ponky,

Having trouble understanding stats?

[ponky]

These are horrible assumptions which don't address any of the points I made other than the number of shots taken and shooting percentages...although, not the difference between shooting percentages at home and on the road WHICH IS A HUGE PART OF MY ARGUMENT, duh. You don't address that fact that the rockets play better at home whereas the Suns own in Phoenix and this might have something to do with all those percentages that you held them down to in that game played in Phoenix. I specifically did not include Yao in the mix because he slows the game down for the Rockets and as some of your fellow Suns fans will tell you (Amare32 or RonMexico forget which mentioned this point), the Suns would prefer to play with Yao in the lineup than without him for precisely this reason. The Rockets' percentages were higher in the game against the Rockets for a couple of reasons...the Suns defense is not equivalent to the Mavs defense and as to this point we'll have to agree to disagree because the Suns defense only comes through its offense which works very well IF you're playing most of the mediocre teams in the league and you're shots are falling, often the case for the Suns.

Also, the Rockets simply play better at home, same way most of the best teams play well better at home...yes, I said the records were equal, my bad, but one game is not much difference to ignore the argument which is basically what you've done. To have only lost four games at home is impressive and to not include this as one of your stats is negligent. BTW, way to address my response of your silly comparison between how the Suns play the Rockets and how the Mavs got blown out by them earlier this season. When a guy has to use the EXCUSE that his team just doesn't get up for teams when their star players are out, I don't usually take them seriously, I read some of the other arguments *cough*excuses*cough* you made in the past when the Suns weren't playing well in a game.

Oh yes, I nearly posted this last night but decided to wait. Look at T-Mac's fg% and look at Rafer Alston's field goal %. Which one is higher? Which one played and took more shots against the Mavs/Suns? Alston would probably not have taken all those shots against the Suns had T-Mac played but regardless, he was having a VERY good night and had T-Mac been in the lineup it changes the Suns defense because they would have to guard two very good shooters who can shoot from all over as opposed to one. Anyway, if you don't get this concept, wait until either Marion or Stoudemire is out against a good team like the Spurs or Mavs....I say this because, in the end, I never said the Suns weren't a great team.

Boy, I bet you spent a whole day thinking about a response, I know you were here when I posted last night and then you promptly left...came back at 6 this evening and still no response. Thanks for playing.

[ponky]

BTW Nashfan, Ron Mexico is your homeboy, he blamed the Mavs win over the Suns on officiating.

[Nashfan]

These are horrible assumptions which don't address any of the points I made other than the number of shots taken and shooting percentages...although, not the difference between shooting percentages at home and on the road WHICH IS A HUGE PART OF MY ARGUMENT, duh. You don't address that fact that the rockets play better at home whereas the Suns own in Phoenix and this might have something to do with all those percentages that you held them down to in that game played in Phoenix. I specifically did not include Yao in the mix because he slows the game down for the Rockets and as some of your fellow Suns fans will tell you (Amare32 or RonMexico forget which mentioned this point), the Suns would prefer to play with Yao in the lineup than without him for precisely this reason. The Rockets' percentages were higher in the game against the Rockets for a couple of reasons...the Suns defense is not equivalent to the Mavs defense and as to this point we'll have to agree to disagree because the Suns defense only comes through its offense which works very well IF you're playing most of the mediocre teams in the league and you're shots are falling, often the case for the Suns. Also, the Rockets simply play better at home, same way most of the best teams play well better at home...yes, I said the records were equal, my bad, but one game is not much difference to ignore the argument which is basically what you've done. To have only lost four games at home is impressive and to not include this as one of your stats is negligent. BTW, way to address my response of your silly comparison between how the Suns play the Rockets and how the Mavs got blown out by them earlier this season. When a guy has to use the EXCUSE that his team just doesn't get up for teams when their star players are out, I don't usually take them seriously, I read some of the other arguments *cough*excuses*cough* you made in the past when the Suns weren't playing well in a game.

Boy, I bet you spent a whole day thinking about a response, I know you were here when I posted last night and then you promptly left...came back at 6 this evening and still no response. Thanks for playing.

You have no idea how to interpet stats. When you do we can talk, until then keep living in your dream world. :lol

[Nashfan]

Oh by the way, I was doing my research to respond to your post earlier. I had to work today so was late in responding to you. As to last night, my computer has been freezing up on me lately so I gave up on getting it to perform correctly last night. Guess it will be time to get a new computer soon! :lol

[ponky]

You have no idea how to interpet stats. When you do we can talk, until then keep living in your dream world. :lol

And you have no idea how to complete an argument other than by the use of emoticons. Seriously, why not address the home field advantage you guys had in Phoenix when you beat the Rockets? Why not address the advantage of only having to defend against one shooter as opposed to two? Why not address the higher fg% and shots taken that T-Mac has over Rafer Alston and certainly John Lucas? Why not address your silly diss on the Mavs getting beat by the Rockets second game of the season?

You didn't produce any stats other than the fg% of the two games you played against the Rockets. What you proceeded to do was then say "let's assume" and that's where I call bullshit because it allows for all your Suns bias to filter in. Anyway, no need to continue this because you'll just respond with another emoticon, good luck in the playoffs, you'll need it.

[ponky]

Oh by the way, I was doing my research to respond to your post earlier. I had to work today so was late in responding to you. As to last night, my computer has been freezing up on me lately so I gave up on getting it to perform correctly last night. Guess it will be time to get a new computer soon! :lol

I see. Well, one stat about fg% takes like five minutes to look up, but whatever. Good luck with getting a computer, get a Mac!

[THE SIXTH MAN]

sup ponky.

[ponky]

Hey Ponky,

Having trouble understanding stats?


You do realize how long it took you to respond right? At least I didn't make an excuse about some computer freezing. Seems like it was fine around 6 PM earlier today when you were on here. But whatever, I'm a hater, haha.

[Nashfan]

And you have no idea how to complete an argument other than by the use of emoticons. Seriously, why not address the home field advantage you guys had in Phoenix when you beat the Rockets? Why not address the advantage of only having to defend against one shooter as opposed to two? Why not address the higher fg% and shots taken that T-Mac has over Rafer Alston and certainly John Lucas? Why not address your silly diss on the Mavs getting beat by the Rockets second game of the season?

You didn't produce any stats other than the fg% of the two games you played against the Rockets. What you proceeded to do was then say "let's assume" and that's where I call bullshit because it allows for all your Suns bias to filter in. Anyway, no need to continue this because you'll just respond with another emoticon, good luck in the playoffs, you'll need it.

I will get back to you tomorrow on this post. Too tired after working long hours today and staying up too late last night. Talk to you tomorrow.

[ponky]

sup ponky.

hey wassup. i'm supposed to be watching this movie with robin williams but i'm just pretending

[ponky]

I will get back to you tomorrow on this post. Too tired after working long hours today and staying up too late last night. Talk to you tomorrow.

Make sure you come up with a good one!

[RonMexico]

BTW Nashfan, Ron Mexico is your homeboy, he blamed the Mavs win over the Suns on officiating.

When? If we're talking about Game 5 2006 WCF where Raja Bell and Mike D'Antoni get two techs in a row when the Suns are up 7, then yes, I have complained about the refs and blamed them for a loss.

I only complained about the late-game officiating against the Mavs in December because Barbosa got hacked hard with no call on a layup and then Dirk got a touch foul almost immediately at the other end, and Josh Howard got away with an obvious carrying violation shortly before putting in a jumper.

If you look deeper, though, I blamed Raja Bell for that pass out of bounds and then passing it to Amare on the last play and I also blamed Marion for not forcing Dirk right on the last shot of the game because Dirk shoots worse when he's going to his right. (If you'll notice, Marion loaded up on his right side, essentially forcing Dirk left, and Dirk faded a little back and to the left on the game-winner.)

Really, though, I complain more about the Mavs not getting caught for a few of their antics, (especially at home) than I do about the refs in general. However, it's kind of like they swallow the whistles when they're in Cuban's house, and officials are a proud group of individuals, so I don't blame them when they're getting blasted on the AAC jumbotron during time-outs.

[RonMexico]

And you have no idea how to complete an argument other than by the use of emoticons. Seriously, why not address the home field advantage you guys had in Phoenix when you beat the Rockets? Why not address the advantage of only having to defend against one shooter as opposed to two? Why not address the higher fg% and shots taken that T-Mac has over Rafer Alston and certainly John Lucas? Why not address your silly diss on the Mavs getting beat by the Rockets second game of the season?

You didn't produce any stats other than the fg% of the two games you played against the Rockets. What you proceeded to do was then say "let's assume" and that's where I call bullshit because it allows for all your Suns bias to filter in. Anyway, no need to continue this because you'll just respond with another emoticon, good luck in the playoffs, you'll need it.

You guys also had a great homecourt advantage, in addition to second half adjustments on defense, to beat a T-Mac led Rockets team. He started hurting towards the end and the Rockets went into "Kobe mode" where they just stand around while their superstar tries to do everything.

Just don't discredit the Suns winning on the road where the Rockets have a good advantage (I know, I was there... it was loud), in a game they really didn't get up for (*ahem* Toronto for you guys *ahem*), and try to say that T-Mac would have made a huge difference. Alston played a really great game (sure, he took 25 shots), and the Rockets came out playing really well as a team, both offensively and defensively. However, you have to think that when the Suns are down 15, and the Rockets are shooting 55% while the Suns are shooting only 26%, that can't last... and it didn't. Those shots Lucas and Head were hitting earlier in the second quarter weren't dropping when it came to the 4th.

Now, you can say that T-Mac might have been able to hit some big shots down the stretch, but no one can tell for sure, beacuse it's all just speculation. Hell, I could have said I thought T-Mac was gonna take over in the 4th against the Mavs, based on his first half outburst, but he certaintly didn't. There are times playing together as a team is even better than having a big superstar out there, and the Rockets were successful for a while out there against the Suns in that situation.

[ponky]

You guys also had a great homecourt advantage, in addition to second half adjustments on defense, to beat a T-Mac led Rockets team. He started hurting towards the end and the Rockets went into "Kobe mode" where they just stand around while their superstar tries to do everything.

Just don't discredit the Suns winning on the road where the Rockets have a good advantage (I know, I was there... it was loud), in a game they really didn't get up for (*ahem* Toronto for you guys *ahem*), and try to say that T-Mac would have made a huge difference. Alston played a really great game (sure, he took 25 shots), and the Rockets came out playing really well as a team, both offensively and defensively. However, you have to think that when the Suns are down 15, and the Rockets are shooting 55% while the Suns are shooting only 26%, that can't last... and it didn't. Those shots Lucas and Head were hitting earlier in the second quarter weren't dropping when it came to the 4th.

Now, you can say that T-Mac might have been able to hit some big shots down the stretch, but no one can tell for sure, beacuse it's all just speculation. Hell, I could have said I thought T-Mac was gonna take over in the 4th against the Mavs, based on his first half outburst, but he certaintly didn't. There are times playing together as a team is even better than having a big superstar out there, and the Rockets were successful for a while out there against the Suns in that situation.

I agree with you, NO ONE can tell for sure and I believe in another post I said I didn't know who would've won but it's ridiculous to state that another good shooter wouldn't have made any difference for the Rockets. I acknowledge that having Amare back is good for the Suns and makes them better, I'd expect Nashfan to at least see the difference between T-Mac and Lucas.....the post near the beginning of this post was just smack.

I never started talking about the Mavs and Rockets originally with the HCA thing, Nashfan made some stupid comment about the Mavs' loss to the Rockets back during the first week of the season. I was telling my bf who went apeshit when T-Mac went off in the first quarter that no one else was getting involved and T-Mac wouldn't be able to keep it up. However, those guys weren't even getting involved in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when T-Mac stopped going crazy with the shots so it doesn't matter.

You Suns fans are so sensitive about your team, you need to learn when to distinguish the smack from the real stuff. Nashfan is a homer and it's just as bad to assume that the Suns were going to win anyway using stats such as a game in Phoenix with Yao and speculation based on the Mavs/Rockets game than to speculate that it may have been different had T-Mav played. BTW, Lucas' shots were NEVER falling in that game(2-10) and that was my point, who knows if T-Mac would've done better than a guy who averages 6 min and 4 pts. a game.

Basically though, I agree with your comments, I was just speculating as well. I figured the Suns would've won that game anyway with the way they've been playing. I just don't appreciate Nashfan's comments which are too biased for my taste...even if you did ride his post like *fill in the blank*, but whatever, he got bashed for saying that the Suns just don't get up for teams when their stars are out and you like to focus on officiating when it comes to the Mavs and their fans. :rolleyes

So, I'm done with this nonsense, just bring it in the playoffs and we'll see how the chips fall.

[Fillmoe]

you niggas write too much..... what happened to simple answers like FUCK THE MAVS...... i aint tryign to read that shit allfcuked up

[mavsfan1000]

you niggas write too much..... what happened to simple answers like FUCK THE MAVS...... i aint tryign to read that shit allfcuked up
Kings fan are very slow that way.

[SoCal Lakeshow]

He's right you guys do write to much.

[SoCal Lakeshow]

:lol :lol At dumb Suns fan trying to argue losing McGrady didn't hurt the Rockets.

[dirk4mvp]

you niggas write too much..... what happened to simple answers like FUCK THE MAVS...... i aint tryign to read that shit allfcuked up


you are not black. why do you use such words, iiger?

[confined]

oh how i wish for a world where suns, spurs, AND mavs fans can live in harmony...
confined 4:12

[mabber]

This post is pure gold. Unfortunately, you included statistics, which every Mavs fan on this forum will tell you it means nothing. Unless, of course, by "statistic" they mean 0-3 against SA and Dallas.

They also ignore the fact that the Suns could have beat a Denver team that didn't have AI, Andre Miller, Melo, JR Smith and, therefore, be .5 GB Dallas for the best record in the NBA.

I also realized that 0-3 against SA/Dallas doesn't mean shit because in the event of a tie, the league doesn't use head-to-head matchups to see which team gets the #1 seed. It's actually based on the teams' looks and we all know Josh Howard (with retainer), Devean George, Dirk, Erika, Harris, Diop, MBenga, and Caveman are the ugliest players in the league, so the Suns win that in a landslide. Oh, wait... I was wrong, the league bases it on stats like conference record... it's so weird the league would use statistics to make a decision.

The irony of Mavs fans is when they blast D'Antoni for his short rotation and coaching on "court chemistry" and then equally blast any Suns fan that uses stats to back up an argument.

Not that it matters to you, but it's slightly ignorant to continue to group all Mav fans into one category based on a few posters in this forum :rolleyes

[mabber]

you niggas write too much..... what happened to simple answers like FUCK THE MAVS...... i aint tryign to read that shit allfcuked up

:lol

[Nashfan]

These are horrible assumptions which don't address any of the points I made other than the number of shots taken and shooting percentages...although, not the difference between shooting percentages at home and on the road WHICH IS A HUGE PART OF MY ARGUMENT, duh. You don't address that fact that the rockets play better at home whereas the Suns own in Phoenix and this might have something to do with all those percentages that you held them down to in that game played in Phoenix. I specifically did not include Yao in the mix because he slows the game down for the Rockets and as some of your fellow Suns fans will tell you (Amare32 or RonMexico forget which mentioned this point), the Suns would prefer to play with Yao in the lineup than without him for precisely this reason. The Rockets' percentages were higher in the game against the Rockets for a couple of reasons...the Suns defense is not equivalent to the Mavs defense and as to this point we'll have to agree to disagree because the Suns defense only comes through its offense which works very well IF you're playing most of the mediocre teams in the league and you're shots are falling, often the case for the Suns.

Also, the Rockets simply play better at home, same way most of the best teams play well better at home...yes, I said the records were equal, my bad, but one game is not much difference to ignore the argument which is basically what you've done. To have only lost four games at home is impressive and to not include this as one of your stats is negligent. BTW, way to address my response of your silly comparison between how the Suns play the Rockets and how the Mavs got blown out by them earlier this season. When a guy has to use the EXCUSE that his team just doesn't get up for teams when their star players are out, I don't usually take them seriously, I read some of the other arguments *cough*excuses*cough* you made in the past when the Suns weren't playing well in a game.

Oh yes, I nearly posted this last night but decided to wait. Look at T-Mac's fg% and look at Rafer Alston's field goal %. Which one is higher? Which one played and took more shots against the Mavs/Suns? Alston would probably not have taken all those shots against the Suns had T-Mac played but regardless, he was having a VERY good night and had T-Mac been in the lineup it changes the Suns defense because they would have to guard two very good shooters who can shoot from all over as opposed to one. Anyway, if you don't get this concept, wait until either Marion or Stoudemire is out against a good team like the Spurs or Mavs....I say this because, in the end, I never said the Suns weren't a great team.

Boy, I bet you spent a whole day thinking about a response, I know you were here when I posted last night and then you promptly left...came back at 6 this evening and still no response. Thanks for playing.

I'm a little tired of this thread, so to give you my final comments, I cannot possible know how the mix of shots with McGrady in the game would have played out. What I do know is that we held him to 9 of 26 shooting in November for a 34% field goal percentage, unlike in your game his 17 of 29 shooting for a 58% field goal percentage. Isn't it interesting that Tracy played almost the entire game against the Mavs, had to sit out against the Suns, but was able to play almost the entire game last night against Denver...coincidence?

Look at any team in the NBA and tell me that their combination of minutes played, shot attempts and field goals made are predictable enough to have a well reasoned arguement regarding the point you are trying to make. Much as I would like to be psychic, it is impossible to say what player is going to show up or not show up on any given night against any given team and what their shooting percentage is going to be. Hell, if I could do that I would make a trip to Vegas and bet the farm on who I would know is going to win the championship and thereby answer the question to the original thread title.

[ponky]

I'm tired of it too, let's just agree to disagree and I'll see you guys next game. No hard feelings Nashfan!

[Fillmoe]

you are not black. why do you use such words, iiger?


Why not? We are just niggas from overseas that know how to perform surgery.

[Nashfan]

I'm tired of it too, let's just agree to disagree and I'll see you guys next game. No hard feelings Nashfan!


No, no hard feelings Ponky!

[confined]

Why not? We are just niggas from overseas that know how to perform surgery.
omg are u serious?!

[Islymore]

can't be... i feel sorry for him if he is... it can't be like that.

[kinbenzoo]

no suns no mavs
sure spurs