Religion is a Plague

[The_Worlds_finest]

For god sake will all the religious idiots of the middle east start a nuclear war with each other and end themselves. It would be wonderfull to kill off all those that believe in some mighty supreme being thought up back in the stone ages

[smeagol]

For god sake will all the religious idiots of the middle east start a nuclear war with each other and end themselves. It would be wonderfull to kill off all those that believe in some mighty supreme being thought up back in the stone ages
Great 5th post!

[Guru of Nothing]

It would be wonderfull to kill off all those that believe in some mighty supreme being thought up back in the stone ages

You are one of them.

I'm kind of busy, so do you mind killing yourself.

TIA

[scott]

TIA

This is Africa?

[Guru of Nothing]

This is Africa?

Aunt.

[velik_m]

I thought religion is an opium?

[exstatic]

I thought religion is an opium?
For those who practice it. For the rest of us, it's a plague.

[smeagol]

For those who practice it. For the rest of us, it's a plague.

I practice a religion and it is not an opium.

[DarkReign]

^someone finally got the quote right. Grats pimp

"Religion is an opiate for the masses."

[Extra Stout]

^someone finally got the quote right. Grats pimp

"Religion is an opiate for the masses."

It seems that today religion is an amphetamine for the masses, and sometimes a hallucinogen, but not so much an opiate.

[velik_m]

^someone finally got the quote right. Grats pimp

"Religion is an opiate for the masses."

not really, since the original is in german.

* Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. ~ Karl Marx

(Full text: http://www3.baylor.edu/~Scott_Moore/texts/Marx_Contr_Crit.html )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opiate_of_the_masses

also:
* Religion is poison. ~ Mao Zedong

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Religion

[clambake]

A plague will attack everyone. Religion controls the weak. It's simpler to let something else make your life decisions. You will find it in the good book. "Praise the lord, and thank you for thinking for me".

[Spurminator]

Humanity is a plague.

[xrayzebra]

A plague will attack everyone. Religion controls the weak. It's simpler to let something else make your life decisions. You will find it in the good book. "Praise the lord, and thank you for thinking for me".

What a dumb statement. Where oh where does the "good book" think for
you? Only cult leaders claim to have the power to make decisions for you.
The "good book" is a blue print for living. And like it or not most morals are
based on the "good book".

[clambake]

So what. Republicans claim they're based on high moral principles, but they don't practice that.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

God is man's greatest mistake i said

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

Think for yourself.

[smeagol]

A plague will attack everyone. Religion controls the weak. It's simpler to let something else make your life decisions. You will find it in the good book. "Praise the lord, and thank you for thinking for me".
Sure clamie. I guess you are not religious so you are part of the "strong".

:rolleyes

[velik_m]

^ so what you're saying religion controls the strong too?

[smeagol]

^ so what you're saying religion controls the strong too?
Exactly what I'm saying.

Drop by my house and I will give you your price.

[Phil Hellmuth]

Arguing religion or prescence of is a dead end street.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Arguing religion or prescence of is a dead end street.to close minded, hard headed individuals it is.

[DarkReign]

Think for yourself.

Question authority.

[DarkReign]

not really, since the original is in german.

* Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. ~ Karl Marx

(Full text: http://www3.baylor.edu/~Scott_Moore/texts/Marx_Contr_Crit.html )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opiate_of_the_masses

also:
* Religion is poison. ~ Mao Zedong

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Religion

Talk about getting wrapped up in semantics.....sheesh...

[Trainwreck2100]

Without religion who will we get to be the bad guys on 24???

[Nbadan]

Not all Christians, just like not all Muslims, are religious fanatics. Too often we fall to generalizations and sterotyping people without knowing the facts.

[Phenomanul]

Not all Christians, just like not all Muslims, are religious fanatics. Too often we fall to generalizations and sterotyping people without knowing the facts.


:tu

[Yonivore]

Not all Christians, just like not all Muslims, are religious fanatics. Too often we fall to generalizations and sterotyping people without knowing the facts.
I would argue, however, that fanatical Christians are misinterpreting their canon whereas it is the non-fanatical Muslims that are misinterpreting theirs.

I'm just saying...

[smeagol]

Not all Christians, just like not all Muslims, are religious fanatics. Too often we fall to generalizations and sterotyping people without knowing the facts.
So true.

I don't understand why some hate religious people so much.

[turambar85]

I would argue, however, that fanatical Christians are misinterpreting their canon whereas it is the non-fanatical Muslims that are misinterpreting theirs.

I'm just saying...

From what do you base this thesis? Who is to say, when rarely will you find two people with the same translation, whom is the one in the wrong? The Bible, and the Kuran, can each mean any dozens of things, and to say that you can determine who is reading it in the wrong light is absurd to say the least.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Some people's dogma seem awfuly religious to me

[Nbadan]

There are no secularist in the fox-hole. I think people get caught up in trying to find too much actuality in stories in the Bible, as well as other religious text that serve as the base for other religions. Don’t take the meaning so literally. Religion to me is more like a philosophy everyone should live by, the stories meant to teach life lessons about survival, self-sacrifice, faith, humanity, etc… but they are not always factually correct, nor could they have ever been given what man knew then about the social sciences and the eventual feminization of society.

[Yonivore]

There are no secularist in the fox-hole. I think people get caught up in trying to find too much actuality in stories in the Bible, as well as other religious text that serve as the base for other religions. Don’t take the meaning so literally. Religion to me is more like a philosophy everyone should live by, the stories meant to teach life lessons about survival, self-sacrifice, faith, humanity, etc… but they are not always factually correct, nor could they have ever been given what man knew then about the social sciences and the eventual feminization of society.
So, how to explain the near unanimous cry of "Allahu Ahkbar," whenever a Muslim engages in a hostile act of war or terrorism.

I can't think of any other military or quasi-military organization that invokes God as they commit acts of violence against their enemy.

[Extra Stout]

So, how to explain the near unanimous cry of "Allahu Ahkbar," whenever a Muslim engages in a hostile act of war or terrorism.

I can't think of any other military or quasi-military organization that invokes God as they commit acts of violence against their enemy.
I assume you are limiting yourself to the present day.

[cherylsteele]

This is Africa?
I think it means "thanks in advance".

[PixelPusher]

I assume you are limiting yourself to the present day.
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/jews_executed_crusades.jpghttp://hereswhatsleft.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/water_torture.png

[Yonivore]

I assume you are limiting yourself to the present day.
Yes. We are talking about contemporary misapplication of religious canon, are we not?

[Yonivore]

high school football teams pray to god before doing violence to their opponents :rolleyes
Yeah, but do they invoke God on every tackle or score? Every player? In every Game?

[Spurminator]

People often invoke God as a defense mechanism to clear their conscience or calm their fears in preparation for what they are about to do.

[Yonivore]

People often invoke God as a defense mechanism to clear their conscience or calm their fears in preparation for what they are about to do.
Yeah...that's not my impression of why Zarqawi was screeching "Allahu Ahkbar" as he sawed Nick Berg's head off.

[Spurminator]

Zarqawi was also a recruiter.

[Yonivore]

Zarqawi was also a recruiter.
Are there any detainees at Quantanamo Bay that don't have a Quran, prayer mat, and an arrow pointing to Mecca in their cell?

Is there a connection between the Madrassas and Islamic terrorism?

What about the large percentage of Mullahs and Mosques that seem to be at the center of Islamic terrorism?

Fatwas?

[Spurminator]

Are there any detainees at Quantanamo Bay that don't have a Quran, prayer mat, and an arrow pointing to Mecca in their cell?

I don't know, are there?

Islamic terrorists are most likely going to practice Islam. No shit. I don't see what this has to do with the run-of-the-mill Muslims living in the house next to me.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/biased-sample.html

If your goal is to show that the Islamic faith, by nature, is a violent faith, then your evidence should be pulled from Koran passages, not the actions of its most fanatical followers.

[Yonivore]

I don't know, are there?

Islamic terrorists are most likely going to practice Islam. No shit. I don't see what this has to do with the run-of-the-mill Muslims living in the house next to me.

If your goal is to show that the Islamic faith, by nature, is a violent faith, then your evidence should be pulled from Koran passages, not the actions of its most fanatical followers.
And those passages have been posted ad nauseum, here and elsewhere. I don't have the Quran handy.

Certainly, Osama bin Laden, Zarqawi, and, most recently, Zawahri have quoted extensively from the Quran in justifying their actions. I can't think of another contemporary military or quasi-military force that quotes extensively from a religious canon as justification for their hostile actions.

[LittleGeneral]

It seems that today religion is an amphetamine for the masses, and sometimes a hallucinogen, but not so much an opiate.

:lol :lol

That's a classic. Surprised no one else pick up on this one. :tu

[AFE7FATMAN]

How far we have come: :rolleyes

Religion is the opium of the people. This is probably the best-known quotation by Karl Marx.

Dante, said, "If God did not exist, man would invent him"

[bresilhac]

On the subject of quotations, religion and philosophy, here's one that rings true:

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche

[Spurminator]

And those passages have been posted ad nauseum, here and elsewhere. I don't have the Quran handy.

Then maybe the argument has been exhausted.


Certainly, Osama bin Laden, Zarqawi, and, most recently, Zawahri have quoted extensively from the Quran in justifying their actions. I can't think of another contemporary military or quasi-military force that quotes extensively from a religious canon as justification for their hostile actions.

So? Again, people throughout history have quoted religious texts for a number of reasons.

And if you're trying to make a point about Islam (or religion) itself, then you shouldn't have to limit yourself to contemporary militaries. Except for translation, neither the Bible nor the Koran has changed since it was written.

[Yonivore]

Then maybe the argument has been exhausted.
That's probably true.


So? Again, people throughout history have quoted religious texts for a number of reasons.
Yes, but few have used their doctrine as the divining reason for committing military actions. Sure, they've relied on their canon to seek guidance and even authority for such escapades but, rarely has anyone -- except Muslims -- said their doctrine told them to war.

And, if they did, I would argue they've misinterpreted their canon. Not the case with Islam -- who have, as far as I know, been quoting the Quran for such exploits, since the days of Mohammed without any internal disabusal of the notion.

I've yet to see a "moderate" muslim argue the texts quoted by bin Laden and company don't actually mean what bin Laden and company say they mean; they typically point to other passages in the Quran and ignore the elephant in the room.


And if you're trying to make a point about Islam (or religion) itself, then you shouldn't have to limit yourself to contemporary militaries. Except for translation, neither the Bible nor the Koran has changed since it was written.
But, that's precisely the point. Other religions have evolved to the point where misintrepretation of the scriptures is less common -- the actual spirit and meaning of scripture are not what past generations and civilizations have said they are; and, we're better for it.

Either Islam has not evolved or their canon is exactly what the terrorists say it is.

[Extra Stout]

Yes. We are talking about contemporary misapplication of religious canon, are we not?
So perhaps the problem is not so much Islam itself as a "defective" religion, but rather the medieval tendencies of contemporary Muslim cultures.

[Yonivore]

So perhaps the problem is not so much Islam itself as a "defective" religion, but rather the medieval tendencies of contemporary Muslim cultures.
That could be but, I would argue this tendency is so pervasive and so long held as to render the religion as is believed -- a violent one that will accept nothing, from non-adherants, short of conversion, dhimmitude, or death.

There are a billion Muslims around the globe -- most of them in the Arab Middle East and Northern Africa -- and I would challenge you to find any Islamic religious leader, outside the Western World (and, to be sure, there aren't many there either -- and, even fewer willing to oppose this view publicly) that do not hold this view of Islam and preach it from their pulpits at every opportunity.

[Spurminator]

and I would challenge you to find any Islamic religious leader, outside the Western World

See? You keep qualifying the Muslims you're talking about.

If Islam is so pervasively violent, you should be able to show that from a random sampling of Muslims, regardless of wealth or geography.

[Yonivore]

See? You keep qualifying the Muslims you're talking about.

If Islam is so pervasively violent, you should be able to show that from a random sampling of Muslims, regardless of wealth or geography.
That's garbage, over 900,000 of the Muslims live in Northern Africa, Indonesia, and the Arab Middle East. I challenge you to find a moderate among them.

The others (in the West), even though I also stated the "moderates" were a minority there as well, are not a good representation of the religion.

Islam is pervasively violent.

[Extra Stout]

That could be but, I would argue this tendency is so pervasive and so long held as to render the religion as is believed -- a violent one that will accept nothing, from non-adherants, short of conversion, dhimmitude, or death.

There are a billion Muslims around the globe -- most of them in the Arab Middle East and Northern Africa -- and I would challenge you to find any Islamic religious leader, outside the Western World (and, to be sure, there aren't many there either -- and, even fewer willing to oppose this view publicly) that do not hold this view of Islam and preach it from their pulpits at every opportunity.
Most Muslims in the world are in Southeast Asia, not in the Middle East or in Northern Africa. Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim country. And their brand of Islam is much more progressive than what the Arabs practice, because their culture is not quite so backward, repressive, and tribal as that of the Arabs.

[Spurminator]

That's garbage, over 900,000 of the Muslims live in Northern Africa, Indonesia, and the Arab Middle East. I challenge you to find a moderate among them.

Non-Moderate <> Violent.

You've made the claim that Islam is pervasively violent, and your only evidence is a subset of the followers whose violent tendencies could be explained by a number of different variables.

You're contending that rectangles are square because you've seen a bunch of squares that are rectangles. I don't need to show you a non-square rectangle for your argument to be ludicrous.

[Drive Like Jehu]

Forget looking at the followers, and/or subjectifying the various Islamic texts (Qur'an, Hadith, or Sunnah) and look at Mohammed himself.

Mohammed intentionally practiced violence during his life.

[Yonivore]

Non-Moderate <> Violent.

You've made the claim that Islam is pervasively violent, and your only evidence is a subset of the followers whose violent tendencies could be explained by a number of different variables.
All but a couple of armed conflicts worldwide involve a combatant that is comprised 100% of Muslims.


You're contending that rectangles are square because you've seen a bunch of squares that are rectangles. I don't need to show you a non-square rectangle for your argument to be ludicrous.
I was actually saying the vast majority of rectangles (in this subset) are squares, and the others sure look like squares because the portion that would delineate the rectangle is hidden, leaving an object of four equal sides.

Okay, you can put your head back in the sand, I'm not going to bother you anymore.

[Yonivore]

Most Muslims in the world are in Southeast Asia, not in the Middle East or in Northern Africa. Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim country. And their brand of Islam is much more progressive than what the Arabs practice, because their culture is not quite so backward, repressive, and tribal as that of the Arabs.
You're right, I accidentally left them out of the statement.

And, I don't see any voices of Islamic moderation eminating from Indonesia either. In fact, we're fighting al Qaeda there too...it's just not as well publicized.

[Spurminator]

I was actually saying the vast majority of rectangles (in this subset) are squares, and the others sure look like squares because the portion that would delineate the rectangle is hidden, leaving an object of four equal sides.

Which still doesn't change the definitions of squares and rectangles.

Enjoy the bunker you've created for yourself.

[Spurminator]

Forget looking at the followers, and/or subjectifying the various Islamic texts (Qur'an, Hadith, or Sunnah) and look at Mohammed himself.

Mohammed intentionally practiced violence during his life.


Now we're getting somewhere.

[E20]

There are a billion Muslims around the globe -- most of them in the Arab Middle East and Northern Africa -- and I would challenge you to find any Islamic religious leader, outside the Western World

Ehhh I was watching Glenn Beck the other day and he had his rant on Muslims are trying to get us, but then he also did a segment where there are other Muslims in the world fighting the crazy ones and he showed a some religous leaders that were in the Middle East and did do this:

that do not hold this view of Islam and preach it from their pulpits at every opportunity.

[Yonivore]

Which still doesn't change the definitions of squares and rectangles.

Enjoy the bunker you've created for yourself.
But, you have to ask yourself, if so many rectangles are getting mistaken for squares, why aren't they revealing themselves to be rectangles?

Enjoy your dhimmitude.

[Spurminator]

Maybe because the squares will kill them and their family if they do. Maybe their comments are limited to discussions/speeches (or hell, online forums) and aren't printed in every Western publication. What ratio of vocal objectors to militants would meet your standards?

I can't stand Jerry Falwell but I doubt he knows it. Am I a hypocrite if I don't issue a press release denouncing him?

[Yonivore]

Maybe because the squares will kill them and their family if they do. Maybe their comments are limited to discussions/speeches (or hell, online forums) and aren't printed in every Western publication. What ratio of vocal objectors to militants would meet your standards?
Then I can't be blamed for viewing their religion in the only manner in which it is publicly manifested -- violence.


I can't stand Jerry Falwell but I doubt he knows it. Am I a hypocrite if I don't issue a press release denouncing him?
You're a coward -- and deserve to be viewed as complicit -- if he successfully incites violence in the name of your religion and you don't stand up and defend it.

[Spurminator]

Then I can't be blamed for viewing their religion in the only manner in which it is publicly manifested -- violence.

I suppose if you're content to be a lazy minded bigot that's your prerogative. Enjoy it.


You're a coward -- and deserve to be viewed as complicit -- if he successfully incites violence in the name of your religion and you don't stand up and defend it.

:rolleyes

Good idea, I'll just type up a declaration of opposition and send it to my "Everyone on the Planet" mailing list.

[johnsmith]

Since a majority of prisoners located throughout the United States are of the Christian denomination, does that mean Christians are more inclined to commit crimes?

[Extra Stout]

You're right, I accidentally left them out of the statement.

And, I don't see any voices of Islamic moderation eminating from Indonesia either. In fact, we're fighting al Qaeda there too...it's just not as well publicized.
If you're not hearing voices of moderation out of a place like Indonesia, it's because you have your hands over your ears.

I tend to think you have your mind made up that Islam is violent and are not really interested in hearing otherwise.