Ludden: Pop asks Parker to shoot less

[DieMrBond]

Pop asks Parker to shoot less
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA012307.05D.spursNOTES.20e932c.html
Web Posted: 01/23/2007 12:19 AM CST

Johnny Ludden
Express-News

BOSTON — Tony Parker attempted only nine shots in Monday's game, one more than he took Sunday in Philadelphia. The reduction hasn't been by accident.

Parker, who was averaging a team-high 14.9 shots per game entering Monday, said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich has asked him to focus more on distributing the ball and helping his teammates get in rhythm.

"He wants me to try to do a better job of getting everybody involved and try to take less shots," Parker said. "I try to get more shots for Michael Finley and Brent Barry and to get their confidence going."

Parker had eight points and eight assists in Sunday's victory. He had 15 points on 6 of 9 shooting against Boston with five assists and five turnovers.

After averaging about 19 points a game for much of the season, Parker said he's had to change his natural instincts a bit.

"I'm trying to do my best to help my team out and get something going," he said. "My offense will always come back. I just try to be more as a passer these last two games and get everybody involved."

Jefferson looks strong: Boston forward Al Jefferson looked impressive in his matchup with Tim Duncan, totaling 26 points and 14 rebounds.

He also had a pair of blocks on Duncan, who finished with 21 points, nine rebounds, five assists and four blocks. But Duncan got the best of him in the final minute, spinning by him for a dunk and a foul after Jefferson gambled for a steal.

"I'm not measuring myself against Tim Duncan," said Jefferson, who turned 22 earlier this month. "He's a three-time champion, an MVP. I'm just honored to be on the same court as him."

Bonner back in New England: Until New Hampshire lands an NBA franchise, Boston is as close as it comes to a homecoming for Matt Bonner.

Bonner, who grew up in the Granite State, filled about 20 ticket requests for Monday's game, including a pair for his parents. He also gave out more than 50 guest passes.

"I did some damage on the guest passes, that's for sure," Bonner said. "(I've) got luckily a lot of people who are responsible and can get their own tickets."

And that's just the amount of people who wanted to make the drive to see Bonner spend the evening on the inactive list.

Bonner missed his fifth consecutive game Monday since tearing his left medial collateral ligament on Jan. 13.

He was expected to be out at least a month — and coach Gregg Popovich still thinks he'll need that long — but Bonner said his rehabilitation is going well and hopes he can return in a couple of weeks.

"Everything is improving: range of motion, pain," Bonner said. "There's hardly any swelling, so it's just a matter of strengthening it and letting the ligament heal."

Bonner was happy to be back in New England, even if it was only for a night.

"I took a walk down Newbury Street by the hotel," he said, "and walked into Newbury Comics and bought a record — just for old times sake."

Popovich wasn't surprised "Matt New Hampshire Bonner," as he calls him, was in good spirits.

"He's 24 years old. He's getting a good paycheck," Popovich joked. "He doesn't have to do anything. Just travel around the country. He should be happy."

[fred33]

if finley take 15 shots by game it's not the solution ! and if tony lose his rythm... pop suck! a player who shoot 53% he can his shoots period!!!

[johnpaulwall21]

I would rather have finley take 15 shots than Bowen driving it to the hole anyday

[Sacramental]

TP shoots 53%?

[ChumpDumper]

:lol No wonder we're sucking.

[ponky]

i hope he takes pop's advice on the upcoming road trip!

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Good to read about Bonner on the mend.

[johnpaulwall21]

yeah when we go on the highway to hell......

[timvp]

Over/Under on this thread being four pages?

[BIG IRISH]

:lol No wonder we're sucking.

Tony stops scoring and the SPURS are fucked.

Maybe Pop can fuck up Tony, like he did AD

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Hmm.

Hopefully it's temporary. Just to get Barry/Finley more involved. Once they get going, Pop can give TP the green-light and know he can rely on Finley/Barry for big shots when needed. HOPEFULLY. If it's not temporary, then we've officially hit the panic button.

[sprrs]

People complain about Tony hogging the ball too much, and now that he's actually trying to be more of a distributor, he's getting complaints also?

This way we can get Fin and Brent into a rythm, and we can count on our bench a little more.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Over/Under on this thread being four pages?

I've got it set on 40 posts/page and there's no doubt I'd take the over.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I've got it set on 40 posts/page and there's no doubt I'd take the over.

In 16 hours.

[BeerIsGood!]

Where are all the people who were bitching about TP shooting too much? They should be on cloud nine knowing that Brick Finley will be getting more shots.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Where are all the people who were bitching about TP shooting too much? They should be on cloud nine knowing that Brick Finley will be getting more shots.

Go to sleep...when you login from work tomorrow morning, it'll be here.

[Kori Ellis]

Looks like Pop is trying to give Finley/Barry some more attempts to see which one he's going to go with when he shortens the rotation.

Another example of Parker just doing what he is asked. When Pop wants him to shoot 20+ shots per game, he does. When Pop wants him to shoot 10 shots a game, he does.

I don't see much to talk about in this thread, but I'm sure the haters will come in with "I told you so's" that don't make any sense :lol

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I don't see much to talk about in this thread, but I'm sure the haters will come in with "I told you so's" that don't make any sense :lol

160 posts, here we come.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I don't care if Parker takes 100 shots a game


as long as they arne't outside of 4 feet


Having said that, it's nice that Pop has made him more of a distributor

[MannyIsGod]

No, it'd be nice if Pop made him more of a distrubtor on a team with good scoring options. As it stands, it sucks that Pop did this. Gonna be hard to win against Houston without a big game from Tony.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

No, it'd be nice if Pop made him more of a distrubtor on a team with good scoring options. As it stands, it sucks that Pop did this. Gonna be hard to win against Houston without a big game from Tony.


well, I don't see him going off in the paint at will with Mutombo and Ming in the paint anyway. I think it's a good idea for TP to get his teammates more involved even if his other options not named TD or Manu absolutely blow.


At the rate we're playing, even a big game from Tony would only keep the score close. I'm sure Pop will (hopefully) give him the go ahead to take over the scoring load when need be.

[polandprzem]

Good decision by Pop

All in all we (the spurs) has got to see how other can play in the flow of a game - not just looking at Tim or Tony.
That can help the team.

Come playoff time - the spurs will have more versitile offence.

Or not

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I think this has less to do with Tony, and more so those recent articles about getting those other Spurs' confidence up.

Besides, I think these last two teams were a good time to risk that and get Barry and Fin shooting, I think Tony will be called to do his stuff for Houston. But yeah, the Tony-haters can't really gripe about Tony being a ball-hog, since he follows orders from Pop.

I think Pop needs to go on instinct and flow more, instead being insistent and so rigid in the big three's roles..Spurs are so predictable sometimes!
So this seems like a good call by Pop.

[SilverPlayer]

I think Tony is one of the most over bagged on players on this board. The guy has proven to do whatever is asked of him. He's gotten better every year. He steps up and changes his game to Pop's plan. (not that Pop is always right.) But Tony is a great team player. I'm glad we have him on our team.

[Slinkyman]

Pop told the wrong PG to stop shooting so much

[Pero]

Pop told the wrong PG to stop shooting so much

Hmmm, funny, I seem to remember an article where Pop said that this other PG should shoot....
Of course things could have changed since that time. :lol

[Bruno]

Besides, I think these last two teams were a good time to risk that and get Barry and Fin shooting.

That's what Parker has said in his radio show just before the Boston game. Pop have asked to pass more to Finley and Barry in the Sixers game because Philly wasn't a big threat.

[ArgSpursFan]

Finally I hear something that makes sence this year from Pop!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks god,he wasn´t out of his mind
I guess,we are gonna start watching some ball movement and sharing from now on.!!!!!!GO SPURS GO

[Spurs Brazil]

This is a joke

Finley can't score, TP can and what happen TP shoots less to Finley shoot more

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think Pop finally opened my email... anyway it is apparent that Fin & Barry need more shots to find a rythm. I am not sure how many shots either of these guys average but in their primes they were bulk shot guys. It seems like they need more shots to get going but of course if they do get more and make the same avg we move on to plan c. Let's be honest the only chance we have this year is if these guys start knocking shots down.


NO told you so from me because in the end I just want to win.

[ginobili fan]

Finally Pop did make a good decision.Because fin and barry have started to get stiff.
And with Tony the distributor,the team is better.But i hope tony don't forget his agressivness and scoring talent when the need come

[ploto]

Tony is a better scorer than distributor. It will interesting to see how this pans out- but I disagree about one thing. If Tony shoots less, Manu need to touch the ball more- not Finley.

[Spurminator]

I guess there's some logic to the theory, but there are going to be some growing pains. Hope it works.

[telecomguy]

if finley take 15 shots by game it's not the solution ! and if tony lose his rythm... pop suck! a player who shoot 53% he can his shoots period!!!


The problem is that TP scores 53% and bulk of his scoring in the first two or three quarters, and NOT when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter.

Also nowhere in the Pop quote did he instruct TP to shoot less AND pass it instead to Barry and Finley! Instead it was TP who was perhaps using Barry and Finley as examples of guys that need more touches/shots to get them in the groove but this is not what Pop necessarily said. He would never give such a rigid stupid instruction to TP like "force feed more shots to Barry/Finley". More likely, Pop said something like this...."let's get more players involved, more passing, and create more movements/motion offense in order to utilize your penetration/speed and get others easy open shots -- be it Manu, Duncan, Bowen, Barry, Finley, Horry, etc. I believe that Pop wants TP to be more of a PG rather than a SG because as I have said million times, Spurs offence is so predictable and limited by lack of a probing, passing PG who gives his teammates open shots or layups on a consistent basis.

One of the reasons why Finley, Horry, etc. have struggled (Beno is a different case -- he has lost his confidence -- see his shot trajectory...very flat and his follow through motion is very poor, very rigid, almost afraid to miss) because none of these guys can CREATE THEIR OWN SHOTS anymore due to their lack of speed/atheleticism that they once possessed. Finley, Horry and even Barry needs that extra split second and extra spacing to get their legs squared away in order to shoot with any consistency. If TP plays more of a PG role and uses his ability to penetrate to not necessarily take it all the way to the hoop and score but to dish it off at the last second or to probe the defence and takes what they give him so that he uses his athleticism to give his teammates (not just Barry and Finley obviously!!) good open looks or easy access to the lane/hoop for layups, dunks, etc., then that will make TP MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE and more importantly, make all his teammates better, especially the vets that can no longer create their own scoring opportunities.

Also this move will hopefully conserve TP's energy so that in fact he does more of his scoring in the CRUNCH TIME (4th qtr) rather than supposedly burning himself out in the first 3 quarters as some have suggested (i still don't buy this however...i think he is a very fit, young player and only plays 35 minutes -- less than Nash! -- and the real reason why TP dissappears is due to opposing defense closing off the driving lane, TP's lack of jumpshots and his lack of confidence that he can score when the game gets intense.

Anyway, TP MUST learn to be more of a PG if we are going to have any chance to beat Dallas or Phoenix. One dimensional, predictable offence that strictly relies on TP driving to the hoop or dumping it into TD in the post ain't going to work when the game gets intense and defence starts to clamp down against the Spurs in the 4th quarter. They have to have EVERYONE involved so that the opposing team can't just focus on 2 players (Manu, Tim) in the 4th quarter.

Tony, before you worry about learning how to hit 3 pointers or even jump shots, learn to play more like Nash, Kidd, Billups and get EVERYONE more involved.

[ArgSpursFan]

Tony is a better scorer than distributor. It will interesting to see how this pans out- but I disagree about one thing. If Tony shoots less, Manu need to touch the ball more- not Finley.

Eventually he´ll(manu) find his rythm,but looks like Finley needs like 1.000 shots to get going this year.I think thats why he just refered to fin and barry

[ShoogarBear]

Over/Under on this thread being four pages?Not until we get the headline: "Pop Asks Parker to Pass More to Ginobili"

[ShoogarBear]

Although everyone (won't name names, you know who you are) who called Tony a selfish ballhog have just been outed as complete morons.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Pop spends too much time babying these guys....I say let the chips fall where they may...if they can't produce .......click, next....go to the next guy! These guys are professionals they don't need help from pop or tony to get it up! Either show up or sit down...cept' for Manu ......even with an off night he still plays with passion....that's all we ask...be confident and play with a purpose! And Timmy is GOD so he's allowed to just hang out! errrr one else! PLAY BALL!

[FromWayDowntown]

Although everyone (won't name names, you know who you are) who called Tony a selfish ballhog has just been outed as complete morons.

I thought that had already been self-evident.

[ArgSpursFan]

Although everyone (won't name names, you know who you are) who called Tony a selfish ballhog have just been outed as complete morons.

Damn,You lossing your swetness shoogar!
Chill out.

[ArgSpursFan]

Although everyone (won't name names, you know who you are) who called Tony a selfish ballhog have just been outed as complete morons.

Well,I think pop reads our threads instead of yours

[T Park]

Stupid move.


What other team tells their all star guard, to shoot less.


Unreal.

[Spurminator]

Last edited by ShoogarBear : Today at 09:14 AM. Reason: correct the verb

Actually, I think you were correcter [sic] the first time.... I believe it should read...

Although everyone (won't name names, you know who you are) who called Tony a selfish ballhog has just been outed as a complete moron.

[ArgSpursFan]

Actually, I think you were correcter [sic] the first time.... I believe it should read...

Although everyone (won't name names, you know who you are) who called Tony a selfish ballhog has just been outed as a complete moron.

:drunk :smokin

get off that pipe!

[hitmanyr2k]

The problem is that TP scores 53% and bulk of his scoring in the first two or three quarters, and NOT when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter.

Also nowhere in the Pop quote did he instruct TP to shoot less AND pass it instead to Barry and Finley! Instead it was TP who was perhaps using Barry and Finley as examples of guys that need more touches/shots to get them in the groove but this is not what Pop necessarily said. He would never give such a rigid stupid instruction to TP like "force feed more shots to Barry/Finley". More likely, Pop said something like this...."let's get more players involved, more passing, and create more movements/motion offense in order to utilize your penetration/speed and get others easy open shots -- be it Manu, Duncan, Bowen, Barry, Finley, Horry, etc. I believe that Pop wants TP to be more of a PG rather than a SG because as I have said million times, Spurs offence is so predictable and limited by lack of a probing, passing PG who gives his teammates open shots or layups on a consistent basis.

One of the reasons why Finley, Horry, etc. have struggled (Beno is a different case -- he has lost his confidence -- see his shot trajectory...very flat and his follow through motion is very poor, very rigid, almost afraid to miss) because none of these guys can CREATE THEIR OWN SHOTS anymore due to their lack of speed/atheleticism that they once possessed. Finley, Horry and even Barry needs that extra split second and extra spacing to get their legs squared away in order to shoot with any consistency. If TP plays more of a PG role and uses his ability to penetrate to not necessarily take it all the way to the hoop and score but to dish it off at the last second or to probe the defence and takes what they give him so that he uses his athleticism to give his teammates (not just Barry and Finley obviously!!) good open looks or easy access to the lane/hoop for layups, dunks, etc., then that will make TP MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE and more importantly, make all his teammates better, especially the vets that can no longer create their own scoring opportunities.

Also this move will hopefully conserve TP's energy so that in fact he does more of his scoring in the CRUNCH TIME (4th qtr) rather than supposedly burning himself out in the first 3 quarters as some have suggested (i still don't buy this however...i think he is a very fit, young player and only plays 35 minutes -- less than Nash! -- and the real reason why TP dissappears is due to opposing defense closing off the driving lane, TP's lack of jumpshots and his lack of confidence that he can score when the game gets intense.

Anyway, TP MUST learn to be more of a PG if we are going to have any chance to beat Dallas or Phoenix. One dimensional, predictable offence that strictly relies on TP driving to the hoop or dumping it into TD in the post ain't going to work when the game gets intense and defence starts to clamp down against the Spurs in the 4th quarter. They have to have EVERYONE involved so that the opposing team can't just focus on 2 players (Manu, Tim) in the 4th quarter.

Tony, before you worry about learning how to hit 3 pointers or even jump shots, learn to play more like Nash, Kidd, Billups and get EVERYONE more involved.

Please stop. You're making too much sense and this forum just doesn't like that.

[VaSpursFan]

TP is following orders. No new news here. Pop asked him to score, he did. Pop asks him to pass more and he's doing that. What Pop tells TP to do, he does. Those who criticize TP's role need to direct that anger at Pop since he's calling the shots and defining roles on this team.

[hitmanyr2k]

Stupid move.


What other team tells their all star guard, to shoot less.


Unreal.

Kobe? Michael Jordan? Any of those guys ring a bell? Parker isn't the first star player to be asked to shoot less for the good of the team.

[picnroll]

Just when you thought this season couldn't suck any worse.

[Que Gee]

Go back and watch last two games...Ball moved incredibly well against Philly, everyone successful, and it was a snoozer. Go back to last night in Boston. Go take a look at "how" the lead disinigrated....Tony ran up and down the floor and didn't give the ball to anyone. Its pretty simple really.

Tony has never been asked to shoot 20 a game this year.

The issue is Tony "setting guys up" to get easier shots. The way he plays, guys don't get open looks a la Nash. Guys still have to creat there own shots. What Pop wants Tony to do is look to get guys like Finley and Barry and Manu open looks so they don't have to create everthing themselves.

Granted Barry does pass up shots here and there...But the fact is, the guy is shooting 50% from the 3pt line, but will literally go stretches where he doesn't even touch the ball for 3-5 minutes....AND THATS NOT POPS GAME PLAN. Remember when Manu came back from his injury and the Spurs were passing the ball like it was on fire? Tony had like 15 assists, Manu was driving and dishing like no other. They crushed teams. Its the same thing.

2nd, hopefully with Tony getting Finley a few touches and Open looks where Finley doesn't have to create his own jump shot, or drive, he can get a few standing wide open looks, and knock a few J's down. Then hopefully his shooting % and confidence will creep back up for the playoffs.

The way it looks now, this is the team we are going to have in the playoffs. (Although RC and Presti did go on this last road trip) Tony shooting 20 times a game is not going to get them to the Finals. Whether anyone likes it or not, Barry / Finley are going to have to be involved unless there is some major move.

Tony will be a poor man's Marbury until he makes everyone around him better. Pop is asking him to do that. When the people around him are better because of him getting them easier shots....Tony will be in the All Star game every single year.

[ALVAREZ6]

I don't know if Tony purposely took less shots on vs. Philly. The Spurs clicked from the get go and scored with ease, knocking down threes left and right. It wasn't even necessary for Tony and Manu to play that night. Manu forced a few too many shots, but still only took 12. The Sixers were completely bending over for the Spurs and Tony really didn't have to shoot when Brent could have scored 100 on the Sixers.

[Que Gee]

I don't know if Tony purposely took less shots on vs. Philly. The Spurs clicked from the get go and scored with ease, knocking down threes left and right. It wasn't even necessary for Tony and Manu to play that night. Manu forced a few too many shots, but still only took 12. The Sixers were completely bending over for the Spurs and Tony really didn't have to shoot when Brent could have scored 100 on the Sixers.

Thats the point though. Manu still only took 12 shots...he didn't need to take more...Why does one player "have to take" 20 plus shots?" The Spurs don't really need that. Except for maybe Tim...I like him to get a lot of touchs.

[angel_luv]

What was that game earlier this season when Tony had all those assists? I remember that the team really responded and it was a great game- hopefully we'll see more of the same.

[Spurminator]

Go take a look at "how" the lead disinigrated....Tony ran up and down the floor and didn't give the ball to anyone. Its pretty simple really.

Interesting, I thought Duncan's 2 blocked shot attempts and 3 turnovers had a lot more to do with it.

[Que Gee]

Interesting, I thought Duncan's 2 blocked shot attempts and 3 turnovers had a lot more to do with it.


Well, its to bad you look at 2 or 3 specific possessions instead of the bigger picture, which is the flow of the game...Thats what turns the tide of a 20 point lead. Not 2 blocked shot attempts.

[ginobili fan]

Go back and watch last two games...Ball moved incredibly well against Philly, everyone successful, and it was a snoozer. Go back to last night in Boston. Go take a look at "how" the lead disinigrated....Tony ran up and down the floor and didn't give the ball to anyone. Its pretty simple really.

Tony has never been asked to shoot 20 a game this year.

The issue is Tony "setting guys up" to get easier shots. The way he plays, guys don't get open looks a la Nash. Guys still have to creat there own shots. What Pop wants Tony to do is look to get guys like Finley and Barry and Manu open looks so they don't have to create everthing themselves.

Granted Barry does pass up shots here and there...But the fact is, the guy is shooting 50% from the 3pt line, but will literally go stretches where he doesn't even touch the ball for 3-5 minutes....AND THATS NOT POPS GAME PLAN. Remember when Manu came back from his injury and the Spurs were passing the ball like it was on fire? Tony had like 15 assists, Manu was driving and dishing like no other. They crushed teams. Its the same thing.

2nd, hopefully with Tony getting Finley a few touches and Open looks where Finley doesn't have to create his own jump shot, or drive, he can get a few standing wide open looks, and knock a few J's down. Then hopefully his shooting % and confidence will creep back up for the playoffs.

The way it looks now, this is the team we are going to have in the playoffs. (Although RC and Presti did go on this last road trip) Tony shooting 20 times a game is not going to get them to the Finals. Whether anyone likes it or not, Barry / Finley are going to have to be involved unless there is some major move.

Tony will be a poor man's Marbury until he makes everyone around him better. Pop is asking him to do that. When the people around him are better because of him getting them easier shots....Tony will be in the All Star game every single year.

I agree and tony is capable to do that but how many times fin,bowen,barry,manu get open looks and they didn't hit the ball? How many times duncan miss the layup(not "the dunk"because he doesn't want to smash)?
Honestly I saw 30 games over 40,and beacause they couldn't finish,tony looses 3,4 assists each time.Sometimes it's like Wow!?!!!
But it is also true that if tony is creating more,there are more chances of them hitting that damn ball.
But the problem is: we can't play like that,we can't play like the suns and we musn't. And...actually...we need tony taking 15 shoots per game because he is the only one who can finish(at this moment we can put the "53%FG" excuse).
And...actually... we have to be honest:we are just the third best team of the nba,that's all,whatever tony taking 8,8 shoots or 9,12 per game.
And that's why whitout parker the spurs suck and that's why parker is an all-star and that's pop is directing tony and that's why tony is doing exaaactly what pop demand him,and that's why pop is the spurs coach and not "telecomguy" or "ginobilifan" or :fro or :donkey or :elephant or :oink

[ALVAREZ6]

Thats the point though. Manu still only took 12 shots...he didn't need to take more...Why does one player "have to take" 20 plus shots?" The Spurs don't really need that. Except for maybe Tim...I like him to get a lot of touchs.
The Spurs don't need that, they need a balance. You also have to keep in mind that Tim gets fouled a lot and is the worst FT shooter of the big 3. I personally who takes more shots, I just like to see some sort of a balance and ball movement with a lot of assists.

[Spurminator]

Well, its to bad you look at 2 or 3 specific possessions instead of the bigger picture, which is the flow of the game...Thats what turns the tide of a 20 point lead. Not 2 blocked shot attempts.

That's five specific possessions. Can you give me five specific plays where Parker stalled the offense?

And when Parker came in, the Spurs were up by 14.

[z0sa]

I think Tony is one of the most over bagged on players on this board. The guy has proven to do whatever is asked of him.

...except show up in the playoffs on a consistent basis.

Parker needs to learn to distribute much better. Hes a very good scorer, but in the playoffs, teams cut that penetration off. He needs to be able to pass more than improve his jumpshot so he can still keep jacking up the same amount of shots per game even if hes not penetrating well.

I fondly and nostalgically remember the ball movement in 2005 and other years and this year its been nothing like that - because Tony is too much the focus of the offense.

[Que Gee]

The Spurs don't need that, they need a balance. You also have to keep in mind that Tim gets fouled a lot and is the worst FT shooter of the big 3. I personally who takes more shots, I just like to see some sort of a balance and ball movement with a lot of assists.

Of course they need balance. Thats my whole premise in the take.

My point was if "anyone" was going to take maybe 20 shots a game it could be Tim. doesn't mean he has to...but if he is getting 20 shots a game, they could be put backs, offensive rebounds, 2 man game with Finley or Barry or Manu on the wings...BUT, they don't NEED him to take 20 shots a game.

[ginobili fan]

...except show up in the playoffs on a consistent basis.
we don't care we won in the past and we are talking about now not 50 000 years ago

[bdictjames]

No, when Duncan sat the remaining of the third quarter, we were absoulutely horrible defensively. They were making jumpshots at that point and cut a 23-point lead to just 14 in the last quarter.

[z0sa]

we don't care we won in the past and we are talking about now not 50 000 years ago

Uh... he didn't fair so well in last year's playoffs. I dont have his exact numbers but his FG% was way down. Thats not 50,000 years ago.

EDIT: he shot 46% compared to 55% during the regular season. I couldn't find his assists but I'm fairly sure they were around, what, 4 a game?

[ShoogarBear]

LMAO at how all the usual mor-, uh, I mean, suspects refuse to admit that Tony does what his coach tells him to do.

Rationalization. It's a beautiful thing.

[ginobili fan]

Uh... he didn't fair so well in last year's playoffs. I dont have his exact numbers but his FG% was way down. Thats not 50,000 years ago.
yeah...you're right, that was 1 year ago but the spurs lost against the mavs,not against the kings.And parker wasn't the problem of the defeat.
And the mavs=best team in the nba it is sad but it is true.
Then maybe you can say parker didn't fair so well in last year's confrontation against the mavs.

[ploto]

The issue is Tony "setting guys up" to get easier shots. The way he plays, guys don't get open looks a la Nash. Guys still have to creat there own shots. What Pop wants Tony to do is look to get guys like Finley and Barry and Manu open looks so they don't have to create everthing themselves...

2nd, hopefully with Tony getting Finley a few touches and Open looks where Finley doesn't have to create his own jump shot, or drive, he can get a few standing wide open looks, and knock a few J's down. Then hopefully his shooting % and confidence will creep back up for the playoffs...

Tony will be a poor man's Marbury until he makes everyone around him better. Pop is asking him to do that. When the people around him are better because of him getting them easier shots....Tony will be in the All Star game every single year.

I think you make a good point- just because you pass the ball more and shoot less shots does not mean that you are setting your teammates up for good shots.

[telecomguy]

Thats the point though. Manu still only took 12 shots...he didn't need to take more...Why does one player "have to take" 20 plus shots?" The Spurs don't really need that. Except for maybe Tim...I like him to get a lot of touchs.

Agreed. Tim needs to take the most shots, not Parker. The thing Tim is that if he takes 20+ shots in the post, he is going to get the opposing bigs into foul trouble earlier (ok his foul shooting is not so good but that's nothing new). What this means is that the opposing bigs may go into the 4th qtr with foul problems IF Tim gets lot of looks and touches in the post in the first 3 quarters. Parker cannot do that by chucking up 20 layups or jump shots as unlike Manu, Parker isn't very good at drawing or creating fouls.

Now, once the opposing bigs are in foul trouble, this will allow PARKER to penetrate easier in the 4th quarter as well as for rest of the Spurs to be more aggressive taking the ball to the rack.

I remember when Duncan routinely used to foul out the opposing team's centers and PF's or get them into severe foul problems by the middle of the 4th quarter -- and at that point, their defence becomes much more hesitant and less aggressive for fear of fouling out or getting the team into foul shot situation.

We have gone away from this since Parker started to dominate the ball and scoring.....hence lately Spurs rarely have their opponents in foul trouble in the 4th quarter. See the difference?

My take is Duncan should establish his post game early, and get lots of looks, shots, and either make the points or get their bigs into foul trouble. This will soften up the opposing defence and allow other Spurs (including Parker) more spacing and make everyone more effective in the crunch time.

Duncan is the Force, not Parker....so we should be riding him early to put pressure on the opposing team. A non-passing scoring guard will NEVER win championship. Look at Jordan....he was winning all kinds of scoring titles in the first 6 years but never won anything because he didn't know how to make his teammates better. It was only when he started to pass more that the Bulls started their dynasty....and obviously Parker is no Jordan (not even close) so all the more reason that he should quickly learn to play within the team and utilize the players around him, especially if their names are Duncan and Ginobilli...and even Barry. Look at Kobe -- even he is getting it now and has made Lakers that much more potent by getting scrubs like Walton, Bynum, and Smush open looks and easy layups.

Pop is asking Parker to now go to another level becuase he knows we cannot win with Parker putting up 20+ shots in a 7 game playoffs when things get intense and defence becomes much more tighter.

[telecomguy]

I agree and tony is capable to do that but how many times fin,bowen,barry,manu get open looks and they didn't hit the ball? How many times duncan miss the layup(not "the dunk"because he doesn't want to smash)?
Honestly I saw 30 games over 40,and beacause they couldn't finish,tony looses 3,4 assists each time.Sometimes it's like Wow!?!!!
But it is also true that if tony is creating more,there are more chances of them hitting that damn ball.
But the problem is: we can't play like that,we can't play like the suns and we musn't. And...actually...we need tony taking 15 shoots per game because he is the only one who can finish(at this moment we can put the "53%FG" excuse).
And...actually... we have to be honest:we are just the third best team of the nba,that's all,whatever tony taking 8,8 shoots or 9,12 per game.
And that's why whitout parker the spurs suck and that's why parker is an all-star and that's pop is directing tony and that's why tony is doing exaaactly what pop demand him,and that's why pop is the spurs coach and not "telecomguy" or "ginobilifan" or :fro or :donkey or :elephant or :oink


Excuse me but did you say Spurs can't shoot? And that this is why Parker is not averaging 8 or 9 assist per game? You must be joking. Spurs are one of the best 3 pt shooting team in the league. AND, Duncan is shooting close to 54%....and they have Barry, Ginobilli, and Bown all shooting over 40% from the 3 pt line. WHERE do you get this idea that the only reason Parker sucks with assists is because Spurs cannot put the ball in when he passes it to them? The reality is that Parker does NOT create an easy shot for his players and the last time I checked, this is what PG should do. AND this is how basketball should be played, instead of one guy trying to go to the hoop or expecting 35+ year old vets to create their own shots or dumping it into Duncan into the post after dribbling the ball around for 15 seconds trying to go solo to the rack before hitting a wall and realizing no opening, give it to Tim to try to force his way through double, triple teams.

[ginobili fan]

Agreed. Tim needs to take the most shots, not Parker. The thing Tim is that if he takes 20+ shots in the post, he is going to get the opposing bigs into foul trouble earlier (ok his foul shooting is not so good but that's nothing new). What this means is that the opposing bigs may go into the 4th qtr with foul problems IF Tim gets lot of looks and touches in the post in the first 3 quarters. Parker cannot do that by chucking up 20 layups or jump shots as unlike Manu, Parker isn't very good at drawing or creating fouls.

Now, once the opposing bigs are in foul trouble, this will allow PARKER to penetrate easier in the 4th quarter as well as for rest of the Spurs to be more aggressive taking the ball to the rack.

I remember when Duncan routinely used to foul out the opposing team's centers and PF's or get them into severe foul problems by the middle of the 4th quarter -- and at that point, their defence becomes much more hesitant and less aggressive for fear of fouling out or getting the team into foul shot situation.

We have gone away from this since Parker started to dominate the ball and scoring.....hence lately Spurs rarely have their opponents in foul trouble in the 4th quarter. See the difference?

My take is Duncan should establish his post game early, and get lots of looks, shots, and either make the points or get their bigs into foul trouble. This will soften up the opposing defence and allow other Spurs (including Parker) more spacing and make everyone more effective in the crunch time.

Duncan is the Force, not Parker....so we should be riding him early to put pressure on the opposing team. A non-passing scoring guard will NEVER win championship. Look at Jordan....he was winning all kinds of scoring titles in the first 6 years but never won anything because he didn't know how to make his teammates better. It was only when he started to pass more that the Bulls started their dynasty....and obviously Parker is no Jordan (not even close) so all the more reason that he should quickly learn to play within the team and utilize the players around him, especially if their names are Duncan and Ginobilli...and even Barry. Look at Kobe -- even he is getting it now and has made Lakers that much more potent by getting scrubs like Walton, Bynum, and Smush open looks and easy layups.

Pop is asking Parker to now go to another level becuase he knows we cannot win with Parker putting up 20+ shots in a 7 game playoffs when things get intense and defence becomes much more tighter.

I think you maybe got the real point.
I mean maybe tony shouldn't score 10 points or + in the first quarter,20 points in the first half as he did usually this year.It should be duncan.
And they used to play like that few years ago.
But why it has changed?
......
......
......
......
ask pop.
But you can find the answer alone and then give it to us(hint:it's not difficult)

[ginobili fan]

Excuse me but did you say Spurs can't shoot? And that this is why Parker is not averaging 8 or 9 assist per game? You must be joking. Spurs are one of the best 3 pt shooting team in the league. AND, Duncan is shooting close to 54%....and they have Barry, Ginobilli, and Bown all shooting over 40% from the 3 pt line. WHERE do you get this idea that the only reason Parker sucks with assists is because Spurs cannot put the ball in when he passes it to them? The reality is that Parker does NOT create an easy shot for his players and the last time I checked, this is what PG should do. AND this is how basketball should be played, instead of one guy trying to go to the hoop or expecting 35+ year old vets to create their own shots or dumping it into Duncan into the post after dribbling the ball around for 15 seconds trying to go solo to the rack before hitting a wall and realizing no opening, give it to Tim to try to force his way through double, triple teams.

It's simple:the spurs don't play like the suns,they don't play like the hornets (with paul of course).
For example,watch paul's games: realise how much he is keeping the ball,dribbling, same with nash,it's just wow!!! and THEN they can create,make open looks to their buddies.
Now,watch spurs games: the ball is always in the hands of duncan first.
So the creator is duncan not tony,so it's not his fault.
What I'm saying is that the few times tony gets the ball and can attack, he uses his speed to penetrate,shoot and CREATE too.
1)when he penetrate:he is succesfull
2) when he shoots:he is succesfull
3)when he give 1 million dollar open look to his teammates,they miss a lot.
But I agree with you that it isn't that which making tony a just 5.6 assists guy.
It is because he don't have the ball enough to do a la nash or paul for example.It is as simple as that.And that's why making 19.5 points and 5.6 assists is already a miracle.

[telecomguy]

It's simple:the spurs don't play like the suns,they don't play like the hornets (with paul of course).
For example,watch paul's games: realise how much he is keeping the ball,dribbling, same with nash,it's just wow!!! and THEN they can create,make open looks to their buddies.
Now,watch spurs games: the ball is always in the hands of duncan first.
So the creator is duncan not tony,so it's not his fault.
What I'm saying is that the few times tony gets the ball and can attack, he uses his speed to penetrate,shoot and CREATE too.
1)when he penetrate:he is succesfull
2) when he shoots:he is succesfull
3)when he give 1 million dollar open look to his teammates,they miss a lot.
But I agree with you that it isn't that which making tony a just 5.6 assists guy.
It is because he don't have the ball enough to do a la nash or paul for example.It is as simple as that.And that's why making 19.5 points and 5.6 assists is already a miracle.


I think that IF Parker could control the ball and zip passes as well as Nash can, Parker WOULD be controllling the ball a lot more. The problem is that Parker does not have this skill. But he still holds the ball, dribbling around, lot more than Duncan and makes more shot attempts than Duncan does or very close to Duncan's number. Look at Deron Williams...the guy averages very close to Tony's numbers in pts but his assist total is close to 9 a game. Are you suggesting that Utah has much better shooters than San Antonio?

Parker is still young...has oodles of athleticism and physical skills. There is no reason why he cannot learn to distribute the ball better and become more of a PG or at least have that skill set to draw on when they start to stack the post to stop him from penetrating. The only caveat is that until he learns how to hit the mid-range jumpers (it has improved but that only shows how bad it was in the past!), I am not sure how Parker is going to draw defenders to him in the perimeter as Nash and Billups can. without drawng the defenders like a magnet like Nash, Parker cannot free up the post or other Spurs and give them easy looks. So as much as I want parker to become better set up guy, I have my doubts whether he can pull that off until his jumpers become much more reliable.

[ginobili fan]

I think that IF Parker could control the ball and zip passes as well as Nash can, Parker WOULD be controllling the ball a lot more. The problem is that Parker does not have this skill. But he still holds the ball, dribbling around, lot more than Duncan and makes more shot attempts than Duncan does or very close to Duncan's number. Look at Deron Williams...the guy averages very close to Tony's numbers in pts but his assist total is close to 9 a game. Are you suggesting that Utah has much better shooters than San Antonio?

Parker is still young...has oodles of athleticism and physical skills. There is no reason why he cannot learn to distribute the ball better and become more of a PG or at least have that skill set to draw on when they start to stack the post to stop him from penetrating. The only caveat is that until he learns how to hit the mid-range jumpers (it has improved but that only shows how bad it was in the past!), I am not sure how Parker is going to draw defenders to him in the perimeter as Nash and Billups can. without drawng the defenders like a magnet like Nash, Parker cannot free up the post or other Spurs and give them easy looks. So as much as I want parker to become better set up guy, I have my doubts whether he can pull that off until his jumpers become much more reliable.

yeah you're right at certain points .
And I totally agree with you about that parker must improve (but not much more)
Finally I think parker wasn't so good in the past except his athleticsm and physical skills.But today he's learning and I would say he's learning quite well.
Tony said himself that he need at least 2 years to get definetly a good jumper like billup,nash...and he's working it.
But don't compare him with deron williams.
And don't forget that Tony has the talent(if not he wouldn't be at this place)
And the most important,tony accepts the criticizes,he is a very good teammate and he wants to be the best he wants to progress.
Then I have any doubt about his capacity.
I would say give him peace for just 1 or 2 years.
Wait and see,then we can really judge if parker has the blood of big time players.But with the "handicap" he has now I say that he's doing a good job.
(fortunately he is only 24)

[telecomguy]

yeah you're right at certain points .
And I totally agree with you about that parker must improve (but not much more)
Finally I think parker wasn't so good in the past except his athleticsm and physical skills.But today he's learning and I would say he's learning quite well.
Tony said himself that he need at least 2 years to get definetly a good jumper like billup,nash...and he's working it.
But don't compare him with deron williams.
And don't forget that Tony has the talent(if not he wouldn't be at this place)
And the most important,tony accepts the criticizes,he is a very good teammate and he wants to be the best he wants to progress.
Then I have any doubt about his capacity.
I would say give him peace for just 1 or 2 years.
Wait and see,then we can really judge if parker has the blood of big time players.But with the "handicap" he has now I say that he's doing a good job.
(fortunately he is only 24)

Don't get me wrong....I like Parker on a personal level. But he is probably only 65% to 75% to being a complete PG in every sense of the word. For those of you who claim that Pop doesn't want Parker to be PG and wants him only to score, if that is really the case (I highly doubt it!), then we need to GET a true PG and let Parker become the SG (which then leaves Manu as a 6th man -- not a bad idea).

And exactly what "handicap" are you talking about? Do you not think Nash or Billups or Kidd would do really well with Spurs? Do you not think those guys could take Spurs to the top if Parker was traded for them? (not going to happen obviously).

[ginobili fan]

Don't get me wrong....I like Parker on a personal level. But he is probably only 65% to 75% to being a complete PG in every sense of the word. For those of you who claim that Pop doesn't want Parker to be PG and wants him only to score, if that is really the case (I highly doubt it!), then we need to GET a true PG and let Parker become the SG (which then leaves Manu as a 6th man -- not a bad idea).

And exactly what "handicap" are you talking about? Do you not think Nash or Billups or Kidd would do really well with Spurs? Do you not think those guys could take Spurs to the top if Parker was traded for them? (not going to happen obviously).
the "handicap" is exagerated but I was talking about what you said yourself:his not very good jumpers.
And the most important thing:he can not shoot 3s (don't get me wrong he's still better than smush parker but he 's trying to shoot as well as nash,billups,even kidd?)
The fact is that the day he would have the permission to shoot 3pointers he can be a big big threat(I said the permission not the efficiency of nash)
And in this case,we really can say "handicap".
Plus,with parker(good or not) the spurs won twice,made at least semi-finals,(and i'm not saying it is THANKS to parker!),and I'm convinced the best still to come.
Then, getting nash(33),billups(31),kidd(34) is just insane.
I prefer having parker who is "killing" kidd on matchups,rivalising nash easily,struggling against billups, and all of that at just 65%(!!!) to being a complete PG as you said,at just 24(!!!)...
I mean as I said what it Will be the day Tony is 100%,(and this will be in 2 years...)
I think we still have the chance to win twice during this process...

[beirmeistr]

I think that IF Parker could control the ball and zip passes as well as Nash can, Parker WOULD be controllling the ball a lot more. The problem is that Parker does not have this skill. But he still holds the ball, dribbling around, lot more than Duncan and makes more shot attempts than Duncan does or very close to Duncan's number. Look at Deron Williams...the guy averages very close to Tony's numbers in pts but his assist total is close to 9 a game. Are you suggesting that Utah has much better shooters than San Antonio?

Parker is still young...has oodles of athleticism and physical skills. There is no reason why he cannot learn to distribute the ball better and become more of a PG or at least have that skill set to draw on when they start to stack the post to stop him from penetrating. The only caveat is that until he learns how to hit the mid-range jumpers (it has improved but that only shows how bad it was in the past!), I am not sure how Parker is going to draw defenders to him in the perimeter as Nash and Billups can. without drawng the defenders like a magnet like Nash, Parker cannot free up the post or other Spurs and give them easy looks. So as much as I want parker to become better set up guy, I have my doubts whether he can pull that off until his jumpers become much more reliable.
Telecomguy, you are making a lot of sense.

[telecomguy]

Telecomguy, you are making a lot of sense.

That is because I am really Greg Popovich in disguise.....heh heh heh....

[Kori Ellis]

I knew all the haters would get excited about this.

But realize, this is probably only a temporary thing to see if any of the players are going to do anything this season. The Spurs are searching to find another consistent option outside the Big Three. Once someone (or no one) emerges and gets in rhythm, Tony will go back to getting 14-15 shots per game like he has for the last 3 seasons.

Regarding, the person who was bagging on Tony's FG% in last year's playoffs - He shot 51% against the Kings (very good) and then got hurt and shot poorly against the Mavs because he had no lift (there were games he wasn't going to even play against the Mavs because he couldn't walk).

To the people who repeatedly say Tony can't shoot jumpers, you should know his percentage is about 50% on J's between the key and the 3-point line this year. I don't know who you think shoots higher than that :lol His jumper is drastically improved.

[remingtonbo2001]

:lol No wonder we're sucking.

My sentiment exactly. I wish I would have known this some time ago, I could have saved myself from hours of restless sleep. :lol

[remingtonbo2001]

That is because I am really Greg Popovich in disguise.....heh heh heh....


Can I be P.J.?

[itzsoweezee]

pop is fucking stupid. the only good scorer on the team should shoot less so that some fucking scrubs get more shots. makes perfect sense.

fuck popobitch.

[TDMVPDPOY]

whoever thinks partisan deserves to take more jumpshots is asking for a spurs loss.

[telecomguy]

pop is fucking stupid. the only good scorer on the team should shoot less so that some fucking scrubs get more shots. makes perfect sense.

fuck popobitch.

Nash and Billups are easily the best pure jump shooters in their respective teams. Do you think Nash & Billups consistenly chuck the most number of shots for their teams? NO!

I wonder why.......

[diego]

Although everyone (won't name names, you know who you are) who called Tony a selfish ballhog have just been outed as complete morons.

yes, but those who questioned how pop uses him in the offense have been totally validated. pop is basically confirming that when parker only looks for his shot our roleplayers cant contribute and therefore we lose more than we gain.

whats better: parker shooting 53%, or the team shooting 50%?

[itzsoweezee]

Nash and Billups are easily the best pure jump shooters in their respective teams. Do you think Nash & Billups consistenly chuck the most number of shots for their teams? NO!

I wonder why.......

why? nash and billups have players on their teams that can make shots. if that was the case in san antonio, popobitch might have a halfway intelligent strategy. instead, it's more stupid shit from him again and again.

[Kori Ellis]

Nash and Billups are easily the best pure jump shooters in their respective teams. Do you think Nash & Billups consistenly chuck the most number of shots for their teams? NO!

I wonder why.......

Like I've repeated said, Tim, Tony and Manu all shoot about the same about of shots.

Tony and Tim shoot 14-15 shots per game. Manu shoots 13-14 shots per game in less minutes.

They are pretty balanced.

On the Suns, Nash shoots 13 shots a game and Marion 14. Similar ballance.

[itzsoweezee]

yes, but those who questioned how pop uses him in the offense have been totally validated. pop is basically confirming that when parker only looks for his shot our roleplayers cant contribute and therefore we lose more than we gain.

whats better: parker shooting 53%, or the team shooting 50%?

what the fuck makes you think the team will shoot 50% if parker passes more (supposing he doesn't enough as it is)? so it's tony's fault now that finley, bowen, horry, etc. can't make open shots.

[diego]

maybe because they will have better looks? better rythm? higher confidence? pop seems to think that is the case. considering we have shot well in games with more ball movement, it just might be possible the two things are related

and where did i say it was tony's fault when others miss?

this discussion is about the coaching staff and how they structure the offense. as the primary ball handler tony's name is going to come up a lot, that is a testament to his importance to the team, not a slight against him.

I feel a lot better about the team after reading your replies though, because once pop ruins this season with his crazy talk abou ball movement, we'll get a real NBA coach, someone like you, who understands its just a matter of giving the ball to the guy with the highest percentage on every possession :rolleyes

[ArgSpursFan]

Go back and watch last two games...Ball moved incredibly well against Philly, everyone successful, and it was a snoozer. Go back to last night in Boston. Go take a look at "how" the lead disinigrated....Tony ran up and down the floor and didn't give the ball to anyone. Its pretty simple really.

Tony has never been asked to shoot 20 a game this year.

The issue is Tony "setting guys up" to get easier shots. The way he plays, guys don't get open looks a la Nash. Guys still have to creat there own shots. What Pop wants Tony to do is look to get guys like Finley and Barry and Manu open looks so they don't have to create everthing themselves.

Granted Barry does pass up shots here and there...But the fact is, the guy is shooting 50% from the 3pt line, but will literally go stretches where he doesn't even touch the ball for 3-5 minutes....AND THATS NOT POPS GAME PLAN. Remember when Manu came back from his injury and the Spurs were passing the ball like it was on fire? Tony had like 15 assists, Manu was driving and dishing like no other. They crushed teams. Its the same thing.

2nd, hopefully with Tony getting Finley a few touches and Open looks where Finley doesn't have to create his own jump shot, or drive, he can get a few standing wide open looks, and knock a few J's down. Then hopefully his shooting % and confidence will creep back up for the playoffs.

The way it looks now, this is the team we are going to have in the playoffs. (Although RC and Presti did go on this last road trip) Tony shooting 20 times a game is not going to get them to the Finals. Whether anyone likes it or not, Barry / Finley are going to have to be involved unless there is some major move.

Tony will be a poor man's Marbury until he makes everyone around him better. Pop is asking him to do that. When the people around him are better because of him getting them easier shots....Tony will be in the All Star game every single year.

Like I say,he needs to go back to the Point Guard´s Basics,and stop trying to be Iverson´s clone.That aint gonna help the team or him.

[picnroll]

Basically this is a desperation move on Pop's part to squeeze more out of players that are already squeezed dry. Only thing that's going to save this team is a very good trade or the fountain of youth.

[telecomguy]

maybe because they will have better looks? better rythm? higher confidence? pop seems to think that is the case. considering we have shot well in games with more ball movement, it just might be possible the two things are related

and where did i say it was tony's fault when others miss?

this discussion is about the coaching staff and how they structure the offense. as the primary ball handler tony's name is going to come up a lot, that is a testament to his importance to the team, not a slight against him.

I feel a lot better about the team after reading your replies though, because once pop ruins this season with his crazy talk abou ball movement, we'll get a real NBA coach, someone like you, who understands its just a matter of giving the ball to the guy with the highest percentage on every possession :rolleyes


heh heh....let's have Parker take 100% of the shots...that way we would have field goal % of 53% which would be the best in the league and we will have the best offense & come home with the ring!!!

If only life was that simple....

[VaSpursFan]

Basically this is a desperation move on Pop's part to squeeze more out of players that are already squeezed dry. Only thing that's going to save this team is a very good trade or the fountain of youth.

exactly. i also think that Pop has come to the realization that he doesn't have shit to offer in a trade unless he can get one of these role players to play over their head again a la barry before the re-introduction of the new old ball. their is a method to his madness. if we can see the obvious flaws with this team, i HOPE that the FO can too...although that remains to be seen :lol :lol

part of me believes the front office is kicking themselves for not being more aggressive in going after c. magg earlier this season thus this manuever to inflate a person's value and pull the trigger before the trade deadline. timing is eveything.

[itzsoweezee]

maybe because they will have better looks? better rythm? higher confidence? pop seems to think that is the case. considering we have shot well in games with more ball movement, it just might be possible the two things are related

and where did i say it was tony's fault when others miss?

this discussion is about the coaching staff and how they structure the offense. as the primary ball handler tony's name is going to come up a lot, that is a testament to his importance to the team, not a slight against him.

I feel a lot better about the team after reading your replies though, because once pop ruins this season with his crazy talk abou ball movement, we'll get a real NBA coach, someone like you, who understands its just a matter of giving the ball to the guy with the highest percentage on every possession :rolleyes

you know what ball movement requires? players that can hit shots. when you have two, sometimes more, offensive liablities in your lineup, ball movement = bricks. instead of coddling finley, maybe popobitch should consider taking him out of the game when he's playing like shit (ie, 90% of the time). now, instead of going 1 for 7, finley will go 2 for 11. and barry, instead of passing up 5 open shots a game will be passing up 12. brilliant strategy.

[itzsoweezee]

heh heh....let's have Parker take 100% of the shots...that way we would have field goal % of 53% which would be the best in the league and we will have the best offense & come home with the ring!!!

If only life was that simple....

you know what would be simple, playing finley less. that would be real simple and would mean a lot less missed shots. of course, that would make too much sense. something popobitch is allergic to.

[ArgSpursFan]

exactly. i also think that Pop has come to the realization that he doesn't have shit to offer in a trade unless he can get one of these role players to play over their head again a la barry before the re-introduction of the new old ball. their is a method to his madness. if we can see the obvious flaws with this team, i HOPE that the FO can too...although that remains to be seen :lol :lol

part of me believes the front office is kicking themselves for not being more aggressive in going after c. magg earlier this season thus this manuever to inflate a person's value and pull the trigger before the trade deadline. timing is eveything.

the front office is kicking their balls for not bringing scola in the off-season.that´s for sure,and cause of magg too.

[T Park]

I knew the usual suspects would be drastically coming in here rehashing the same old bullshit myths and other horseshit that they say about parker.


These fuckers forget the days before Avery Johnson when the team's starting point guards were Negle Knight, Sleepy Floyd, Greg Sutton, Chris Whitney (who BTW, is supposedly better than Parker), Vinny Del stiffo, and Johnny Moore on his last foot. Forget legs, they were gone.

[VaSpursFan]

you know what ball movement requires? players that can hit shots. when you have two, sometimes more, offensive liablities in your lineup, ball movement = bricks. instead of coddling finley, maybe popobitch should consider taking him out of the game when he's playing like shit (ie, 90% of the time). now, instead of going 1 for 7, finley will go 2 for 11. and barry, instead of passing up 5 open shots a game will be passing up 12. brilliant strategy.

:lol :lol :lol this is so true. finley can't throw a rock in the ocean if he was on the beach and barry has been passive since the new old ball came...although he is picking it up lately. i still say Pop is telling Barry to be more aggressive so he can "showcase" him for teams that need 3 pt shooting. this is all about making a trade.

[T Park]

not bringing scola in

Id say more other wing guys.

Fuck Scola, they don't want that stiff for shit.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I love how most everybody bagging on Tony seems to have Kori on ignore and isn't really bringing up her points - I mean, what would she know? It's not like she's paid to analyze this stuff and has tons of basketball knowledge under her belt and combined with her wedding ring.

-62.

[nkdlunch]

Like I've repeated said, Tim, Tony and Manu all shoot about the same about of shots.

Tony and Tim shoot 14-15 shots per game. Manu shoots 13-14 shots per game in less minutes.

They are pretty balanced.

On the Suns, Nash shoots 13 shots a game and Marion 14. Similar ballance.

Kori, you cannot compare the Suns offense to the Spurs offense. I am sure Suns as a team shoot way, way more than spurs and they have a different offensive style, Suns just chuck shots.

In an offense like the Spurs offense, 15 shots per game could be equivalent to 18 shots per game in another offense.

Pop might not be doing the right thing, but I am glad he is actually trying something. We need something to change.

[T Park]

-62? :wtf

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

-62? :wtf

I responded to LJ in the affirmative that this thread would reach four pages (and I have my forum settings on 40 posts/page), so the -62 is in reference to my post being #98.

[T Park]

That is because I am really Greg Popovich in disguise.....heh heh heh....


I call bullshit.

Pop would at least know how to spell his own name.

[T Park]

I responded to LJ in the affirmative that this thread would reach four pages (and I have my forum settings on 40 posts/page), so the -62 is in reference to my post being #98.

My bad, gotcha.

[ArgSpursFan]

pop is fucking stupid. the only good scorer on the team should shoot less so that some fucking scrubs get more shots. makes perfect sense.

fuck popobitch.


Iverson was the only man who could score or even touch the ball in Philly,tell me,what did they win???

you need a balanced Of. in order to spread the other team´s Defence,otherwise you become too predictible if most of your points come from the same man.

[ArgSpursFan]

yes, but those who questioned how pop uses him in the offense have been totally validated. pop is basically confirming that when parker only looks for his shot our roleplayers cant contribute and therefore we lose more than we gain.

whats better: parker shooting 53%, or the team shooting 50%?

RIGHT ON DUDE!

[SequSpur]

fuckin bullshit.

[ArgSpursFan]

why? nash and billups have players on their teams that can make shots. if that was the case in san antonio, popobitch might have a halfway intelligent strategy. instead, it's more stupid shit from him again and again.

Yes,Pop is stupid,thats why he coaches the spurs and you coach.....mmmmmmmmm(can´t remember the team)

[angel_luv]

Pop would at least know how to spell his own name.


CIA

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, you cannot compare the Suns offense to the Spurs offense. I am sure Suns as a team shoot way, way more than spurs and they have a different offensive style, Suns just chuck shots.

In an offense like the Spurs offense, 15 shots per game could be equivalent to 18 shots per game in another offense.

Pop might not be doing the right thing, but I am glad he is actually trying something. We need something to change.

I'm not comparing the offenses. The other poster was comparing him to Nash and responded.

And I agree, Pop is trying to do something. He's trying to get one of the other players to step up. Hopefully it works. But people are crazy if they think the point is to completely stop Tony from shooting (or "chucking" as they keep saying). Pop is just trying to get someone else's confidence and production up.

[nkdlunch]

yeah all the Tony haters need to STFU. Tony is playing better this year than anytime in his career. Plus he is willing to do anything for the team even shoot less.

[ArgSpursFan]

I'm not comparing the offenses. The other poster was comparing him to Nash and responded.

And I agree, Pop is trying to do something. He's trying to get one of the other players to step up. Hopefully it works. But people are crazy if they think the point is to completely stop Tony from shooting (or "chucking" as they keep saying). Pop is just trying to get someone else's confidence and production up.

I think that,what´s going on right now is what always happens every year by mid junuary or sometimes mid feb.Pop is gonna start playing 8 players(9 at the most)rotation and he wants those players to be in good shape,+he did let tony have some fun out there,by being selfish and shit,but now its time to play some spurs basketball.Come on guys,you still get sorprised by this??it happens every year.I just hope we don´t come up short this year by having too many old guys on the roster.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Contrary to what some of the parker defenders say many people don't hate parker. Since when did critcizing a player on your team equate to hating him? I am not directing this to anyone in particular but when your response to some valid TP criticism is " You just hate Tony parker" it's intellectually weak. There are many knowledgable folks on this board and it irritates me a bit that some feel the need to demean those they don't agree with. I agree with Kori in that Parker will probably be directed to become more aggressive at some point later in the season. At this moment in the season we are not getting enough support for the big 3 and I agree with Pop's decision to try and get our jump shooters more shots.. MAYBE this will equate to more wins and improve the quality of play. If this ploy does work and Pop then reverts back to "play more agrressive Parker" I may have to start questioning what in the hell we are doing.. my point is if this works let's not revert back to what didn't work..

[George Gervin's Afro]

yeah all the Tony haters need to STFU. Tony is playing better this year than anytime in his career. Plus he is willing to do anything for the team even shoot less.


why don't you stfu..is the team as a whole playing better than last year? what do you want? a second round and out team with TP playing great? or a chance to win a ring with TP toning it down a bit?

[telecomguy]

Contrary to what some of the parker defenders say many people don't hate parker. Since when did critcizing a player on your team equate to hating him? I am not directing this to anyone in particular but when your response to some valid TP criticism is " You just hate Tony parker" it's intellectually weak. There are many knowledgable folks on this board and it irritates me a bit that some feel the need to demean those they don't agree with. I agree with Kori in that Parker will probably be directed to become more aggressive at some point later in the season. At this moment in the season we are not getting enough support for the big 3 and I agree with Pop's decision to try and get our jump shooters more shots.. MAYBE this will equate to more wins and improve the quality of play. If this ploy does work and Pop then reverts back to "play more agrressive Parker" I may have to start questioning what in the hell we are doing.. my point is if this works let's not revert back to what didn't work..

Also if TP is going to be aggressive, I'd rather have him aggressive and attacking the paint in the FOURTH QUARTER when points are hard to come by. This bad habit of starting out strong and then fading (games and series) is becoming a bad movie in my opinion. Why waste all your energy, freeze out your teammates, and most importantly, give your opponents 3 quarters to figure out how to stop your dribble penetration in the all-important 4th qtr? Save your scoring for 4th qtr tony and I will forever shut my mouth up!

[ArgSpursFan]

Contrary to what some of the parker defenders say many people don't hate parker. Since when did critcizing a player on your team equate to hating him? I am not directing this to anyone in particular but when your response to some valid TP criticism is " You just hate Tony parker" it's intellectually weak. There are many knowledgable folks on this board and it irritates me a bit that some feel the need to demean those they don't agree with. I agree with Kori in that Parker will probably be directed to become more aggressive at some point later in the season. At this moment in the season we are not getting enough support for the big 3 and I agree with Pop's decision to try and get our jump shooters more shots.. MAYBE this will equate to more wins and improve the quality of play. If this ploy does work and Pop then reverts back to "play more agrressive Parker" I may have to start questioning what in the hell we are doing.. my point is if this works let's not revert back to what didn't work..

Right on dude,thanks god those that take criticism as hate to somebody are only fans and don´t work on the team´s front office.
if they wanna call me a moron,I don´t really care.but for the record I have to say that, on many of my threads I said that this was coming,and Tony eventually was gonna have to stop playing Iverson´s BB. and become the PG he´s always been since he got to the spurs.
To all Parker´s Fans(including my self)this is the best for him as a piont guard and mostly for the SA Spurs

[nkdlunch]

why don't you stfu..is the team as a whole playing better than last year? what do you want? a second round and out team with TP playing great? or a chance to win a ring with TP toning it down a bit?

:lol busted! your Tony hate is out of the closet.

[George Gervin's Afro]

:lol busted! your Tony hate is out of the closet.


My point proven...I guess your slow... do want team success or a particular player to have success? If a player's success takes away from the overall team success are you ok with that? team or player? Why don't you change your evitar to a picture of Tony's jock?

[ChumpDumper]

whats better: parker shooting 53%, or the team shooting 50%?If the team was shooting 50%, Tony wouldn't be shooting so much in the first place.

So the latest welfare scheme is shots per game. Good luck with that one Pop.

[nkdlunch]

My point proven...I guess your slow... do want team success or a particular player to have success? If a player's success takes away from the overall team success are you ok with that? team or player? Why don't you change your evitar to a picture of Tony's jock?

I called out Tony Haters and u replied. u do the math genius.

[ArgSpursFan]

My point proven...I guess your slow... do want team success or a particular player to have success? If a player's success takes away from the overall team success are you ok with that? team or player? Why don't you change your evitar to a picture of Tony's jock?


:lol :lol :lol

[timvp]

I've gained some respect for Parker.

How many players in the league would listen to their coach and stop shooting as much? Especially when the player is a borderline All-Star who by shooting less could play himself right out of contention.

Props to Parker for putting the team over any personal goals :tu

[George Gervin's Afro]

I've gained some respect for Parker.

How many players in the league would listen to their coach and stop shooting as much? Especially when the player is a borderline All-Star who by shooting less could play himself right out of contention.

Props to Parker for putting the team over any personal goals :tu


He's got mine as well.

[timvp]

http://img.rtvslo.si/upload/sport/kosarka/tony_show.jpg
Pop: Tony stop shooting so much you damn ballhog.
Tony: But PJ told me it's okay to shoot.
PJ: . . .

[ArgSpursFan]

I've gained some respect for Parker.

How many players in the league would listen to their coach and stop shooting as much? Especially when the player is a borderline All-Star who by shooting less could play himself right out of contention.

Props to Parker for putting the team over any personal goals :tu

I think the kind of players who want to win more championships instead of being on top of the stats.

Good for Tony,but great for the team.

[Cry Havoc]

maybe because they will have better looks? better rythm? higher confidence? pop seems to think that is the case. considering we have shot well in games with more ball movement, it just might be possible the two things are related

and where did i say it was tony's fault when others miss?

this discussion is about the coaching staff and how they structure the offense. as the primary ball handler tony's name is going to come up a lot, that is a testament to his importance to the team, not a slight against him.

I feel a lot better about the team after reading your replies though, because once pop ruins this season with his crazy talk abou ball movement, we'll get a real NBA coach, someone like you, who understands its just a matter of giving the ball to the guy with the highest percentage on every possession :rolleyes


It's all about the Xs and Os.

What happens when Parker drives? Well, for one thing, the entire defense of the opposing team collapses on him. This means that if he gets out of position or he misses, they suddenly have 3-4 players around the boards for rebounding.

Even if they -don't- collapse, if you'll watch, Parker goes to the opposite side of the bucket that Duncan has posted on (Duncan usually posts to the left side in this case). This means that there is not only a defender with Parker near the hoop, but one between Duncan and the basket, assuming they aren't fronting him. If Parker misses, or even if he passes to a teammate for a shot, the other team has effectively pulled in a bit. Duncan doesn't want to go over the back and pick up a stupid foul, so he has to give up the space and the rebound.

Compare this to the Tony Parker that drives and dishes. Now, he has a step on his man (who has to follow him out of the post), the defense has fallen back a bit, and we have open shooters who can move the ball just about anywhere. Since Tim doesn't have to worry about being in Parker's path when he drives, he can repost for better rebounding position if we miss.

As a side bonus, we control the game clock a lot more in this case, which means less time for the opposing team to have the ball, which means our defense will yield fewer PPG.

As a second bonus, Parker will most likely be fresher for the 4th quarter, meaning he can play better D and have better penetration. I've noticed that teams make almost as many adjustments to Parker now as Duncan. If you wait till the 3rd and 4th quarters before letting him loose, you could surprise a lot of teams who think they've been able to stay in front of him the whole game.

[polandprzem]

Sheesh I'm watching the game 2 of the 2005 Finals.

So much energy and intensity from TP, Manu, Bowen - awesome play. I reminded myself why I love that game and why I love spurs.

Right now it is not looking that great and even if Finley and Barry will gaing so much needed confidence I do not see much success against that hight octane, energy teams (mavs, suns).
The key will be the defensive intensity throughout the whole game that spurs are lacking, and realy you can't tell if they will be able to produce it just for the playoffs. If you don't have it you don't have it.
We have some names on the bench but not a valuable (as valuable as mavs) one from the production poit of view.

[telecomguy]

I think the kind of players who want to win more championships instead of being on top of the stats.

Good for Tony,but great for the team.

wait a second.....since when did it become that the only way to get on the all-star was by scoring? Is Nash the best scorer? Is that why he is going to the All-Star?

I think TP can become a great player if he can learn to distribute better and get better shots for his teammates. He can still get his 15 pts. at 55% and if he can up his assist number to say around 9 or 10 and also become a better defender, and a jump shooter, there wouldn't be too many coaches or fans who wouldn't recognize his abilities.......not to mention probably a few more rings for the Spurs.

As it is right now, if TP plays the way he has been, we are not going to win the ring...and that is what it is all about in the end. Not all-star selection.

[ArgSpursFan]

It's all about the Xs and Os.

What happens when Parker drives? Well, for one thing, the entire defense of the opposing team collapses on him. This means that if he gets out of position or he misses, they suddenly have 3-4 players around the boards for rebounding.

Even if they -don't- collapse, if you'll watch, Parker goes to the opposite side of the bucket that Duncan has posted on (right side). This means that there is not only a defender with Parker near the hoop, but one between Duncan and the basket. If Parker misses, or even if he passes to a teammate for a shot, the other team has effectively pulled in a bit. Duncan doesn't want to go over the back and pick up a stupid foul, so he has to give up the space and the rebound.

Compare this to the Tony Parker that drives and dishes. Now, he has a step on his man (who has to follow him out of the post), the defense has fallen back a bit, and we have open shooters who can move the ball just about anywhere. Since Tim doesn't have to worry about being in Parker's path when he drives, he can repost for better rebounding position if we miss.

As a side bonus, we control the game clock a lot more in this case, which means less time for the opposing team to have the ball, which means our defense will yield fewer PPG.

As a second bonus, Parker will most likely be fresher for the 4th quarter, meaning he can play better D and have better penetration. I've noticed that teams make almost as many adjustments to Parker now as Duncan. If you wait till the 3rd and 4th quarters before letting him loose, you could surprise a lot of teams who think they've been able to stay in front of him the whole game.

With a balanced Ofence you become less predictible on the ofensive end+ the other team can´t get many fast break points.

[telecomguy]

It's all about the Xs and Os.

What happens when Parker drives? Well, for one thing, the entire defense of the opposing team collapses on him. This means that if he gets out of position or he misses, they suddenly have 3-4 players around the boards for rebounding.

Even if they -don't- collapse, if you'll watch, Parker goes to the opposite side of the bucket that Duncan has posted on (Duncan usually posts to the left side in this case). This means that there is not only a defender with Parker near the hoop, but one between Duncan and the basket, assuming they aren't fronting him. If Parker misses, or even if he passes to a teammate for a shot, the other team has effectively pulled in a bit. Duncan doesn't want to go over the back and pick up a stupid foul, so he has to give up the space and the rebound.

Compare this to the Tony Parker that drives and dishes. Now, he has a step on his man (who has to follow him out of the post), the defense has fallen back a bit, and we have open shooters who can move the ball just about anywhere. Since Tim doesn't have to worry about being in Parker's path when he drives, he can repost for better rebounding position if we miss.

As a side bonus, we control the game clock a lot more in this case, which means less time for the opposing team to have the ball, which means our defense will yield fewer PPG.

As a second bonus, Parker will most likely be fresher for the 4th quarter, meaning he can play better D and have better penetration. I've noticed that teams make almost as many adjustments to Parker now as Duncan. If you wait till the 3rd and 4th quarters before letting him loose, you could surprise a lot of teams who think they've been able to stay in front of him the whole game.

excellent post. exactly what i have also observed.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao @ folks who think Tony is the guy holding this team back.

[timvp]

if he can up his assist number to say around 9 or 10

You do watch the Spurs play, don't you?

You could put Steve Nash in this offense and he wouldn't average 9 assists. Unless you want to install a new offense, if a player averages 6 assists, they are doing a good job.

[VaSpursFan]

i'm still marveling over this thread. people are acting like some fantastic insight has been revealed when the bottom line is we have discovered is that tony is doing whatever Pop asks of him. Pop know's a lot more about X and O's and part of me believes that he's either trying to shorten the rotation or have another role player overachieve in order to make a trade.

[Cry Havoc]

You do watch the Spurs play, don't you?

You could put Steve Nash in this offense and he wouldn't average 9 assists. Unless you want to install a new offense, if a player averages 6 assists, they are doing a good job.

Nash might get 9 assists because he would literally tell the defense, "Ok, I'm going to fake you out and lob it to Duncan. Ready? ready? Here it goes." *fake* *Layup for TD*

But Nash is a freak and an exception. The Spurs are all about making the 3rd and 4th pass, not just the first or second. Yet another reason why Parker's driving takes away from our offense -- it makes us a little closer to two-dimensional, especially when it's our primary method of scoring.

Also, and I just thought of this. Parker is our fastest player. You don't want your fastest player under your own hoop when the other team is throwing outlet passes down the court. If Tony is around the 3 point line, there is NO way to have a 2-0 or 1-0 fast break. The Spurs will always have at least one player back.

[telecomguy]

You do watch the Spurs play, don't you?

You could put Steve Nash in this offense and he wouldn't average 9 assists. Unless you want to install a new offense, if a player averages 6 assists, they are doing a good job.

hmm...are you really sure about that? Perhaps Spurs wouldn't play the way do today if Nash was running the offence. Also it is possible that if Parker lays out beautiful passes on a regular basis to an open player for layups or uncontested jumpers, are you saying the Spur player would either miss the layup or pass it again to a covered man?

basketball is baskeball. I do not think Pop ever told Parker to not find an open man for uncontested layups or wide-open jumpers. And it's not the Spurs system that is preventing Parker from doing his PG job. The fact is TP is just not very good at finding open man or freezing out defense to create shots for his teammates.

I like Tony..i think he works extremely hard and has a good attitude. But you would be a fool to completly ignore or be blinded by his obvious shortcomings even as he has shown so much potential and atheleticism in the past few years. His next level up is to get the jumper working and to CREATE and FIND open man so that he makes EVERYONE more effective, including himself. Numbers do not tell everything. Numbers on parker looks very good....unfortunately in my opinion, Parker does not play as effectively as his numbers tend to show.

[hitmanyr2k]

I've gained some respect for Parker.

How many players in the league would listen to their coach and stop shooting as much? Especially when the player is a borderline All-Star who by shooting less could play himself right out of contention.

Props to Parker for putting the team over any personal goals :tu

??? :lol :lol It's not like Parker has a say in the matter. Common sense says he's not going to ignore Popovich and he's not going to complain because he'll just end up in the doghouse.

[ChumpDumper]

are you saying the Spur player would either miss the layup or pass it again to a covered man?Oberto would miss the layup and Barry would pass it again to a covered man.

[Cry Havoc]

Oberto would miss the layup and Barry would pass it again to a covered man.

Still an upgrade from Nazr, who would fumble the ball for 45 seconds and then pump fake under the hoop 23 times.

[SequSpur]

So while Parker is playing like a fucking allstar, popadipshit wants him to step back and be a role player like wussy duncan and the rest of the shit bags they picked up....

fucking great... even more of a reason not to watch this popateam.

[Cry Havoc]

So while Parker is playing like a fucking allstar, popadipshit wants him to step back and be a role player like wussy duncan and the rest of the shit bags they picked up....

fucking great... even more of a reason not to watch this popateam.

You mean the one with three rings on their fingers?

Yeah. Don't watch. We don't need fans like you who think their knowledge of sports is all-encompassing.

[SequSpur]

You mean the one with three rings on their fingers?

Yeah. Don't watch. We don't need fans like you who think their knowledge of sports is all-encompassing.

Do you ride the short bus to the ATT center? Obviously, you don't watch the Spurs.

[Cry Havoc]

Do you ride the short bus to the ATT center? Obviously, you don't watch the Spurs.

Ah, I suppose it's no surprise that someone who openly states they know more about basketball than a head coach, and feels no need to watch their team anymore has to resort to insults about another person's intelligence to get his point across.

[T Park]

sequ spur gets owned and as usual, has nothing intelligent to say back.

[ArgSpursFan]

So while Parker is playing like a fucking allstar, popadipshit wants him to step back and be a role player like wussy duncan and the rest of the shit bags they picked up....

fucking great... even more of a reason not to watch this popateam.

them go watch denver,they´ve got fucking Iverson,if that´s the kind of Basketball you like.but them,don´t spect them to win a championship

[diego]

If the team was shooting 50%, Tony wouldn't be shooting so much in the first place.


of course, and if tony shoots 53% it obviously helps the team % too. I dont think its a matter of shots per game, just keeping everyone involved and trying to put our players in favorable positions. Finley has been driving me crazy this season but if we arent getting a replacement we need to try and get something out of him, same goes for barry, udrih, etc. they get some good opportunities already and more talented guys would have probably been able to capitalize them but they've made it clear they need more help to be useful. if we go into the playoffs playing 3 on 5 we're going to have a hard time.

i dont know how many times i have to repeat, i have no problem with parker, quite the contrary, but pop has to figure out how to make this team he put together work the best it can.

[ShoogarBear]

Doesn't matter. The first game the Spurs lose with Tony taking six shots, the HaveItInForHims will talk about being too passive and not stepping up.

[SequSpur]

Ah, I suppose it's no surprise that someone who openly states they know more about basketball than a head coach, and feels no need to watch their team anymore has to resort to insults about another person's intelligence to get his point across.

WTF do 3 rings have to do with Duncan getting owned by a 6 2 guard on the Boston Celtics?

The Spurs are winning because of Tony Parker. Watch a game and get back to me.

[SequSpur]

sequ spur gets owned and as usual, has nothing intelligent to say back.

Get some snatch and get back to me. Might be awhile.

[cheguevara]

Finally I hear something that makes sence this year from Pop!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks god,he wasn´t out of his mind
I guess,we are gonna start watching some ball movement and sharing from now on.!!!!!!GO SPURS GO

I hope you're being sarcastic. The solution is not for Tony to shoot less, but to get SOMEONE, ANYONE more involved.

Again, for the fools that still don't get it, Pop didn't do this because Tony is a ballhog, but because we need to jumstart our team offense somehow.

It is basically equivalent to telling Manu to start on thebench, it's not because he sucks, but because our bench players are fucking shit.

and Pop better be telling Barry if he passes on another open jumper he will put him in the inactive list.

[SequSpur]

Pop is just trying to get someone else's confidence and production up.

Isn't this the NBA? The top of the mountain. The big chulo.

This team has the tools to compete for a championship and now they are worried about massaging confidence and productivity?

How many more times are they going to go to Bonner and Bowen for a game winner?

You win when you put the ball in the hands of your best player and right now that is Tony Parker. Let him fuckin play and dictate the game now. Duncan has become a role player. Manu is usually out of control or watching from the sideline... The rest of these guys are unpredictable... the only allstar left and Pop is muzzling him. WTF? Can I be a writer? This is bullshit. Parker is the only reason I keep watching this puss team and now I have to watch him pass it for a clanker?

It's getting worse by the minute.

[cheguevara]

Isn't this the NBA? The top of the mountain. The big chulo.

This team has the tools to compete for a championship and now they are worried about massaging confidence and productivity?



2 words, Beno Udrih

[SequSpur]

2 words, Beno Udrih

Parker doesn't pass to Beno Udrih...

http://www.mtv.com/onair/next/assets/images/series_main_281.jpg

[gilmor]

hmm...are you really sure about that? Perhaps Spurs wouldn't play the way do today if Nash was running the offence. Also it is possible that if Parker lays out beautiful passes on a regular basis to an open player for layups or uncontested jumpers, are you saying the Spur player would either miss the layup or pass it again to a covered man?

basketball is baskeball. I do not think Pop ever told Parker to not find an open man for uncontested layups or wide-open jumpers. And it's not the Spurs system that is preventing Parker from doing his PG job. The fact is TP is just not very good at finding open man or freezing out defense to create shots for his teammates.

I like Tony..i think he works extremely hard and has a good attitude. But you would be a fool to completly ignore or be blinded by his obvious shortcomings even as he has shown so much potential and atheleticism in the past few years. His next level up is to get the jumper working and to CREATE and FIND open man so that he makes EVERYONE more effective, including himself. Numbers do not tell everything. Numbers on parker looks very good....unfortunately in my opinion, Parker does not play as effectively as his numbers tend to show.

I think you do not watch Spurs playing for the last 3-4 years. Spurs offense always begin with Tim. So even if Tony passes the ball to Tim and Tim got the points, Tony never gets the assist. Why? Tim normally will take a dribble or two at the post and then post up some defender before making his move, either to pass it to another open player or go to the hoops. That's the core of how Spurs play. So even if Nash were to come here, he will be instructed to do the same, and that's the reason why Nash is not playing for this team. The offenses in these 2 teams are totally different..

[ArgSpursFan]

I hope you're being sarcastic. The solution is not for Tony to shoot less, but to get SOMEONE, ANYONE more involved.

Again, for the fools that still don't get it, Pop didn't do this because Tony is a ballhog, but because we need to jumstart our team offense somehow.

It is basically equivalent to telling Manu to start on thebench, it's not because he sucks, but because our bench players are fucking shit.

and Pop better be telling Barry if he passes on another open jumper he will put him in the inactive list.

Well,them tell me how ´d you get more people involved if there´s no ball movement and sharing?by getting offensive rebounds when tony misses a shot??

[cheguevara]

Parker doesn't pass to Beno Udrih...

http://www.mtv.com/onair/next/assets/images/series_main_281.jpg

damn ballhog :smokin

[SequSpur]

I think you do not watch Spurs playing for the last 3-4 years. Spurs offense always begin with Tim. So even if Tony passes the ball to Tim and Tim got the points, Tony never gets the assist. Why? Tim normally will take a dribble or two at the post and then post up some defender before making his move, either to pass it to another open player or go to the hoops. That's the core of how Spurs play. So even if Nash were to come here, he will be instructed to do the same, and that's the reason why Nash is not playing for this team. The offenses in these 2 teams are totally different..

Good point... The Spurs don't set screens, they run high low the whole game. Bowen is the new penetrator for the Spurs.. OMFG. Parker comes down the court, passes to bowen, back up to a big man up top for the entry pass... if nothing there... back to parker with a few seconds left to make something happen.... NICE! Pop is great.

[cheguevara]

Well,them tell me how ´d you get more people involved if there´s no ball movement and sharing?by getting offensive rebounds when tony misses a shot??

what part of 53% shooting don't u understand?

Yes it is a good idea to get ppl involved. but you are exagerating, you are making it seem like Finley, Barry, Horry have not had their opportunities. They were getting their shots, they were just not making them.

Now they will get even MORE opportunities. Let's see...

[ArgSpursFan]

Isn't this the NBA? The top of the mountain. The big chulo.

This team has the tools to compete for a championship and now they are worried about massaging confidence and productivity?

How many more times are they going to go to Bonner and Bowen for a game winner?

You win when you put the ball in the hands of your best player and right now that is Tony Parker. Let him fuckin play and dictate the game now. Duncan has become a role player. Manu is usually out of control or watching from the sideline... The rest of these guys are unpredictable... the only allstar left and Pop is muzzling him. WTF? Can I be a writer? This is bullshit. Parker is the only reason I keep watching this puss team and now I have to watch him pass it for a clanker?

It's getting worse by the minute.

well,them hopefully when he gets traded we´ll stop reading your BS threads.

[ArgSpursFan]

what part of 53% shooting don't u understand?

Yes it is a good idea to get ppl involved. but you are exagerating, you are making it seem like Finley, Barry, Horry have not had their opportunities. They were getting their shots, they were just not making them.

Now they will get even MORE opportunities. Let's see...

What i´m trying to tell you is that,if he can get more people involved the team´s offense will become more unpredictible,like it used to,right now,they all know he is gonna try to panetrate all the fucking time,so what they do is:they wait for him to make his move and them the collapse on him,that´s a no brainer even for the worse defensive team in this league to defende.

[1Parker1]

The issue is Tony "setting guys up" to get easier shots. The way he plays, guys don't get open looks a la Nash. Guys still have to creat there own shots.

:wtf Guys almost never have to create their own shots due to the Spurs offense. Double team Duncan, he passes out to the open guy, he shoots. Parker/Ginobili drives to the hole, draws defense in, they pass it out to the wide open perimeter shooter.

Because of the way Parker plays, guys DO get open looks. Difference is, Parker's passes aren't as nifty and numerous as Nash's so you don't see it as obviously. If you look at the game plan of ANY team we have played this season, guarantee the opposing coach will say that their main defensive goal is to stop the penetration of Tony Parker. He's one of the best (due to his quickness) of driving to the lane and getting in a tough layup or passing to the open man. Pop is simply telling him to pass it to the open man now instead of taking the layup.

It's not that often that guys like Finley, Barry, etc. have to create their own shots from the perimeter.

[itzsoweezee]

:wtf Guys almost never have to create their own shots due to the Spurs offense. Double team Duncan, he passes out to the open guy, he shoots. Parker/Ginobili drives to the hole, draws defense in, they pass it out to the wide open perimeter shooter.

Because of the way Parker plays, guys DO get open looks. Difference is, Parker's passes aren't as nifty and numerous as Nash's so you don't see it as obviously. If you look at the game plan of ANY team we have played this season, guarantee the opposing coach will say that their main defensive goal is to stop the penetration of Tony Parker. He's one of the best (due to his quickness) of driving to the lane and getting in a tough layup or passing to the open man. Pop is simply telling him to pass it to the open man now instead of taking the layup.

It's not that often that guys like Finley, Barry, etc. have to create their own shots from the perimeter.

you summed up the situation exactly.

[ChumpDumper]

Finley has been driving me crazy this season but if we arent getting a replacement we need to try and get something out of him, same goes for barry, udrih, etc.If we aren't getting replacements for these guys, we're out in the first round no matter how man shots Tony takes.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

23 minutes off - not bad.

[ducks]

Perhaps Spurs wouldn't play the way do today if Nash was running the offence.


so you ae sayign the spurs would change the o with nash?
they would have to if nash would average 9 assist a game

[Cry Havoc]

:wakeup


Duncan has become a role player.

:rolleyes

:lol

:lol

:lol

[1Parker1]

:wakeup



:rolleyes

:lol

:lol

:lol


It's actually kind of true. In the Spurs losses, Duncan has more often than not played unaggresively, sloppy with TO's, and/or distracted by the refs. Role player can get away with that when the team is losing. I expect more from Duncan in those types of situations. Yesterday's game was a nice step towards the right direction for him though. Hitting his FT's getting that dunk and 1, etc. :tu

[Cry Havoc]

It's actually kind of true. In the Spurs losses, Duncan has more often than not played unaggresively, sloppy with TO's, and/or distracted by the refs. Role player can get away with that when the team is losing. I expect more from Duncan in those types of situations. Yesterday's game was a nice step towards the right direction for him though. Hitting his FT's getting that dunk and 1, etc. :tu

What you said means that Duncan is NOT a role player. If we lose because he's playing poorly, that means he's the one we go to. I've seen games where Parker or Ginobili have been ineffective throughout, and we still win. If Duncan has a bad game, we almost never win. Note the difference.

LOL @ 20-10 3.5 and 2 being a "role player". There are so many deluded, unappreciative Spurs fans out there. The media has even got YOU buying into the fact that if he doesn't make a lot of noise or have thunderous dunks (note your statement above), he's somehow less effective.

Unbelievable.

[exstatic]

Looks like Pop is trying to give Finley/Barry some more attempts to see which one he's going to go with when he shortens the rotation.

If Pop hasn't figured that one out, he never will. Mike Finley should never get shots at the expense of Tony. The shot chart should be, in order:

Tim
Tony
Manu - he plays fewer minutes
Barry - ditto
anyone else
ballboy
trainer
Finley

[Cry Havoc]

If Pop hasn't figured that one out, he never will. Mike Finley should never get shots at the expense of Tony. The shot chart should be, in order:

Tim
Tony
Manu - he plays fewer minutes
Barry - ditto
anyone else
ballboy
trainer
Finley

But Duncan is a ROLE player!!!! Don't you know that!? :smokin

[MannyIsGod]

I notice a lot of (stupid) people posting with green names in this thread.

Interesting.

There should be a test before you're allowed to register for the board. :lol

[johnpaulwall21]

Duncan = GOAT he aint no role player

Why is everyone all over Finley and Parker? and of course no one even challenges or argues anything Ginobili does.... Bowen is the worst out there,everytime he goes in for a finger roll or a sky hook, im always saying to myself sh*t!!! He needs to just stay in the corners.

[johnpaulwall21]

i never noticed oh well

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

damn, last time I checked this thread was at page 2!

[exstatic]

Duncan = GOAT he aint no role player

Why is everyone all over Finley and Parker? and of course no one even challenges or argues anything Ginobili does.... Bowen is the worst out there,everytime he goes in for a finger roll or a sky hook, im always saying to myself sh*t!!! He needs to just stay in the corners.



player FG 3G
Manu .456 .414
Bowen .432 .444
Fin .370 .300

[johnpaulwall21]

why r u comparing manu to finley i never said finley was better than manu, and Im talking about when bowen drives it in,not his corner 3s. He either gets a turnover or hes highly contested.

[T Park]

Finley nailed some big shots, and key free throws yesterday.

Yet...

Whatever.

[SouthCompLikeWAH]

parker is a balla. we need to get some more raw ass players look in my new thread n see wat im talkin bout

[v2freak]

Good of Parker to listen to the coach :tu

[jbspurs]

pop is fucking stupid. the only good scorer on the team should shoot less so that some fucking scrubs get more shots. makes perfect sense.

fuck popobitch.

Point guards needs to get their teammates involve to get their team going. Good example, Steve Francis good scorer "Not a good point guard", Jason kidd pass first shoot second "Very good point guard".

[Que Gee]

:wtf Guys almost never have to create their own shots due to the Spurs offense. Double team Duncan, he passes out to the open guy, he shoots. Parker/Ginobili drives to the hole, draws defense in, they pass it out to the wide open perimeter shooter.

Because of the way Parker plays, guys DO get open looks.



Wow. Uh, how many games have you watched? Unless I'm just not biting on your sarcasm...
:lol

[diego]

If we aren't getting replacements for these guys, we're out in the first round no matter how man shots Tony takes.

and there is nothing the coaching staff can do in 40-some games and 3 months to change that??

great attitude. thankfully i remember the spurs have a motto about perseverance, i hope they remember it too.


like others said, pop instructing tony to give priority to the pass over the shot is the same as benching manu, its a sacrifice for the sake of the team (and another sample of tony's professionalism) and if it doesnt work you go back to "normal." Its better to go through this now than in the playoffs.

[ploto]

Wow. Uh, how many games have you watched? Unless I'm just not biting on your sarcasm...
:lol
I must say that I wondered about this person's attempts to tell you of all posters that you don't understand ball movement and setting guys up for easy shots. :lol

[cheguevara]

why r u comparing manu to finley i never said finley was better than manu, and Im talking about when bowen drives it in,not his corner 3s. He either gets a turnover or hes highly contested.

I guess you don't watch when we play defense. Bowen is DEFENSIVE player, he's been that forever. And we've won becasue of him. yeah, he's a little bit slower this year, but he's still top 3 defender in the league. :rolleyes

blame Pop if he calls offensive plays for Bowen.

[LilMissSPURfect]

blame Pop if he calls offensive plays for Bowen.



:p: :p: :lol :lol :downspin:

[telecomguy]

Where are all the people who were bitching about TP shooting too much? They should be on cloud nine knowing that Brick Finley will be getting more shots.


I think you guys are all completely wrong about who TP is going to give up his shots for. It may be Finley or Barry but it may not necessarily turn out that way. What Pop is asking TP to do is find the open man & CREATE good scoring opportunities. If that open man happens to be Finley/Barry, TP should pass it to them. If it happens to be TD on the low post or Manu cutting, it should go to them. There is no way Pop would tell TP to pass more to a specific PLAYER. That would be insane. That would require TP to actually keep a mental count of how many passes he has thrown to Barry/Finley. Proposterous. What TP said in the press about distributing more to Finley/Barry was more just using Finley/Barry as an EXAMPLE.

In fact if you look at the shot count, what has happened (I belive) in the past two games is that lot of the TP shots that he has given up has gone to Duncan. And actually this is not a bad thing (as I mentioned in the previous post) because establishing TD in the low-post and getting him the ball will allow us to establish control of the paint, get the double-team coming at TD, get their bigs in foul trouble.....eventually opening up lot of good opportunities for our jump shooters.

In the past, what has happened is that more often than not, it was TP who was doing most of the shooting, penetrating, and scoring in the paint which meant that TD and most of the other Spurs were more of a spectator rather than working on getting open, cutting, and doing all the movement stuff to destablize the opponent's defence. TP should SAVE his penetration moves for 4th quarter, save his energy.....because by saving his dribble drive for the 4th qtr., he will have EASIER opportunities to drive since hopefully by that time, TD & the 3 pt. shooters will have sucked the defenders (perimeter) to the outside and prevent them from helping to collapse on Tony since TP can blow by any perimeter defender if they are playing further out (trying to defend our 3pt. shooters).

Does this not make sense???

1) get TD, Manu get more looks in the opening qtrs. (also this way TD's poor foul shooting is less of an issue in the first few qtrs.) to establish control of the paint and get their bigs in foul trouble (Manu is also very good at drawing fouls, unlike TP who is almost too fast & does not use his body as well as Manu in getting 2 & 1's when he penetrates)

2) once TD and Manu are penetrating and scoring, especially TD, the defence will start to double team TD earlier....at this point TD starts to find open shooters on the perimeter and hopefully Barry, Finley, Manu, Bowen can start hitting their 3's.

3) once TD and the jump shooters are doing their thing and have their defence in foul trouble, THEN Tony can do his thing in the 4th qtr. (dribble drive) when his energy level and the ability to penetrate will be easier since the defence will not have figured out that collapsing their defence is what they should be doing and also their perimeter defenders are actually staying on the perimeter to defend the 3's rather than collapsing into the paint area to double, triple team TP and strip the ball away from him.

This makes more sense to me than having TP get all his points in the first 3 qtrs., do not establish any balance or flow, do not get any of the other players involved, and then get stopped stone cold in the 4th when the defence starts to stack the paint and basically stop Tony from penetrating, daring him to shoot his mid-range jumper which is still not reliable enough to depend on.

[xapatan2]

I think you guys are all completely wrong about who TP is going to give up his shots for. It may be Finley or Barry but it may not necessarily turn out that way........
....... TP get all his points in the first 3 qtrs., do not establish any balance or flow, do not get any of the other players involved, and then get stopped stone cold in the 4th when the defence starts to stack the paint and basically stop Tony from penetrating, daring him to shoot his mid-range jumper which is still not reliable enough to depend on.

Hi, I juste "cut" the quote in order to shorten my post.

Well, telecomguy, It seems your opinion and your vision of the "TP subject" has quite evolved since your first post.

First, I do agree with you. The gameplan you propose ( based on what you believe Pop is aiming to do ) seems to me quite interesting.
As Kori and timvp have said, Tony is making what Pop is asking him to do. Since the start. Has Pop changed his mind ? Is he trying new things ? Is he convinced his former gameplan ( Tony attacking madly during the first and the third quarter) belongs to the past ?

We all do not know.... I just do think that we cannot win a championship, right now, with the exact gameplan we had the years before.

And your proposed gameplan is talking to me very very much.

congrat's
Xap'

[telecomguy]

Hi, I juste "cut" the quote in order to shorten my post.

Well, telecomguy, It seems your opinion and your vision of the "TP subject" has quite evolved since your first post.

First, I do agree with you. The gameplan you propose ( based on what you believe Pop is aiming to do ) seems to me quite interesting.
As Kori and timvp have said, Tony is making what Pop is asking him to do. Since the start. Has Pop changed his mind ? Is he trying new things ? Is he convinced his former gameplan ( Tony attacking madly during the first and the third quarter) belongs to the past ?

We all do not know.... I just do think that we cannot win a championship, right now, with the exact gameplan we had the years before.

And your proposed gameplan is talking to me very very much.

congrat's
Xap'


i have to admit, i am not Greg Popovich so what I conjectured above is just coming out of my own head and obviously not necessarily what Pop is telling Tony. I just hope that Tony becomes more than just a first qtr/second qtr (and sometimes 3rd qtr) star only to dissappear in the 4th.....and more importantly, I hope TP can make the other Spurs more effective and get more fluidity, balance in our offense. It doesn't take too much brain to see that when TP is going crazy, penetrating possession after possession doing his high-screen roll outs with TD in the first few qtrs., the other Spurs are mostly standing around not doing much cutting or moving because it is obvious to them that Parker is playing a one-man game and ain't going to pass the ball to them no matter how open they are or how hard they cut to get open.

this is not good.....and I HOPE that this is what Pop is trying to work on with TP. TP has great skills at penetrating and finishing but only Jordan (& to a lesser extent, Kobe) can really take over a game from beginning to end and win games singlehandedly....and even Jordan proved that he cannot win consistently this way, especially in the playoffs, which is why he became more of a facilitator (only taking over when his teammates could not score or late in games, when it mattered most).

TP save your energy for defence (his defence was REALLY poor last year in the playoffs....and still isn't as good as it could be....get some more steals!! ) and scoring/penetrating in the last 5 minutes of the game when it really counts. THEN and only then will TP become critical to our success. Right now he puts up the numbers but everyone knows that TP is not the key to Spurs winning the ring. He can be much more of a weapon if he learns to pace himself, use other players and play more of an all-around PG game even if by nature he likes to play SG and one-on-one dribble drive.

[beirmeistr]

i have to admit, i am not Greg Popovich so what I conjectured above is just coming out of my own head and obviously not necessarily what Pop is telling Tony. I just hope that Tony becomes more than just a first qtr/second qtr (and sometimes 3rd qtr) star only to dissappear in the 4th.....and more importantly, I hope TP can make the other Spurs more effective and get more fluidity, balance in our offense. It doesn't take too much brain to see that when TP is going crazy, penetrating possession after possession doing his high-screen roll outs with TD in the first few qtrs., the other Spurs are mostly standing around not doing much cutting or moving because it is obvious to them that Parker is playing a one-man game and ain't going to pass the ball to them no matter how open they are or how hard they cut to get open.

this is not good.....and I HOPE that this is what Pop is trying to work on with TP. TP has great skills at penetrating and finishing but only Jordan (& to a lesser extent, Kobe) can really take over a game from beginning to end and win games singlehandedly....and even Jordan proved that he cannot win consistently this way, especially in the playoffs, which is why he became more of a facilitator (only taking over when his teammates could not score or late in games, when it mattered most).

TP save your energy for defence (his defence was REALLY poor last year in the playoffs....and still isn't as good as it could be....get some more steals!! ) and scoring/penetrating in the last 5 minutes of the game when it really counts. THEN and only then will TP become critical to our success. Right now he puts up the numbers but everyone knows that TP is not the key to Spurs winning the ring. He can be much more of a weapon if he learns to pace himself, use other players and play more of an all-around PG game even if by nature he likes to play SG and one-on-one dribble drive.
Telecomguy, I'll say it again. You are making too much sense.

[xapatan2]

i have to admit, i am not Greg Popovich so what I conjectured above is just coming out of my own head and obviously not necessarily what Pop is telling Tony. I just hope that Tony becomes more than just a first qtr/second qtr (and sometimes 3rd qtr) star only to dissappear in the 4th.....and more importantly, I hope TP can make the other Spurs more effective and get more fluidity, balance in our offense. It doesn't take too much brain to see that when TP is going crazy, penetrating possession after possession doing his high-screen roll outs with TD in the first few qtrs., the other Spurs are mostly standing around not doing much cutting or moving because it is obvious to them that Parker is playing a one-man game and ain't going to pass the ball to them no matter how open they are or how hard they cut to get open.

this is not good.....and I HOPE that this is what Pop is trying to work on with TP. TP has great skills at penetrating and finishing but only Jordan (& to a lesser extent, Kobe) can really take over a game from beginning to end and win games singlehandedly....and even Jordan proved that he cannot win consistently this way, especially in the playoffs, which is why he became more of a facilitator (only taking over when his teammates could not score or late in games, when it mattered most).

TP save your energy for defence (his defence was REALLY poor last year in the playoffs....and still isn't as good as it could be....get some more steals!! ) and scoring/penetrating in the last 5 minutes of the game when it really counts. THEN and only then will TP become critical to our success. Right now he puts up the numbers but everyone knows that TP is not the key to Spurs winning the ring. He can be much more of a weapon if he learns to pace himself, use other players and play more of an all-around PG game even if by nature he likes to play SG and one-on-one dribble drive.

Hi again..

You are still thinking that tony is playing the way he wants to, which is not the case... he does what he asked to..

All these questions are more on Pop.

And concerning the "defense" part, i do not care about "steals", i do more care about contested shots and contesting the passing lane.
TP can defend, at a high level. He proved this already a few years ago. during his second year and third year mostly...

xap'

[telecomguy]

Telecomguy, I'll say it again. You are making too much sense.

What is really funny is that I made all these points in the middle of last year in the Spursreport forum and they kicked me out! Unfortunately for us, all my fears came true in the playoffs. Manu didn't play great either but Tim did his thing and if TP didn't dissappear, we could probably have beaten Mavs in 6.

Jason Terry abused Parker so totally...i can't remember how many times Terry was so easily able to lose Parker on screen rolls.....Parker was a bit hurt but to me, that's no excuse to be so soft on defence at such a critical series -- and offensively TP just didn't contribute when it mattered.

I hope TP can redeem himself this year in the playoffs....to me he has the most UPSIDE on our team. Tim is going to do his thing, Manu will do his thing (neither are going to surprise anyone) but TP can REALLY ADD VALUE TO THE TEAM if he plays smarter and get everyone more involved.

Everyone thinks we should trade Parker (although for Kidd, Nash, Billups, Paul, or that caliber of PG i would do the trade in a heartbeat as the window for winning the ring is NOW, not when Parker evolves his game in few years) but I doubt we could get a star PG for tony so the only hope is that Tony really learns to play more effectively during the second half.

At least, this is what I hope Popovich is trying to do with TP as opposed to "feeding" Finley or Barry...which is totally a stupid idea if that is in fact what Pop is trying to do (I am sure that is not the case!)

[cheguevara]

Jason Terry abused Parker so totally...i can't remember how many times Terry was so easily able to lose Parker on screen rolls.....Parker was a bit hurt but to me, that's no excuse to be so soft on defence at such a critical series -- and offensively TP just didn't contribute when it mattered.


you keep mentioning Terry abused parker, but dude... what about Dirk abusing EVERYONE on the Spurs, what about Howard making a bitch out of Manu, Barry and Finley???? what about Devin Harris abusing everyone??

why do you single out parker as being abused? all our players except for Bowen got abused by plenty Mavs.

[telecomguy]

you keep mentioning Terry abused parker, but dude... what about Dirk abusing EVERYONE on the Spurs, what about Howard making a bitch out of Manu, Barry and Finley???? what about Devin Harris abusing everyone??

why do you single out parker as being abused? all our players except for Bowen got abused by plenty Mavs.


I expect Dirk and to a lesser extent,Howard abusing our defenders but Terry?

Anyway you have a valid point....our defence did not play well but I thought Parker was our weakest link on defence because Terry and Devin Harris routinely went after Tony.

[ArgSpursFan]

I think what happened against the mavs was that they tryed to play some zone D at times in the 4th qtr,and didn´t work out to good.there were only two guys(manu and tony)guarding terry,howard and harris,while Bowen was on Dirk.The spurs have done it before and it worked out pretty good,I guess Avery saw it and made some changes on the offensives plays in the 4th.quarter.

[SuperManu!!!]

This is just like the finals were manu was sent to the bench so to give barry more confidence

[ginobili fan]

Hi again..

You are still thinking that tony is playing the way he wants to, which is not the case... he does what he asked to..

All these questions are more on Pop.

And concerning the "defense" part, i do not care about "steals", i do more care about contested shots and contesting the passing lane.
TP can defend, at a high level. He proved this already a few years ago. during his second year and third year mostly...

xap'

You're completly right.

I think telecomguy gave some interesting points about the gameplan, but as you said, as much as Pop don't give the GREEN LIGHT to Tony in the 4th quarter,Tony can't change his game much more.

Another example concerning Pop being the total "controller",about Tony and his steals:Tony said himself that Pop doesn't him even to try to steal ,to avoid giving space to the opponents.Yet Tony has all the qualities to make many steals.
But yeah,it is sometimes frustating to see Pop don't using Tony at 100% and his skills, although he is the younger one.(Same with his gametime,I mean,34 min it's just like wow^10000 compared to all other "good" PG)

[telecomguy]

You're completly right.

I think telecomguy gave some interesting points about the gameplan, but as you said, as much as Pop don't give the GREEN LIGHT to Tony in the 4th quarter,Tony can't change his game much more.

Another example concerning Pop being the total "controller",about Tony and his steals:Tony said himself that Pop doesn't him even to try to steal ,to avoid giving space to the opponents.Yet Tony has all the qualities to make many steals.
But yeah,it is sometimes frustating to see Pop don't using Tony at 100% and his skills, although he is the younger one.(Same with his gametime,I mean,34 min it's just like wow^10000 compared to all other "good" PG)

Are you saying that he gives green light for Manu to steal (because Manu steals a lot) but won't give Tony the option of going for steal? What kind of coach would try to micromanage a player to that extent? Pop would be insane to stop TP from stealing the ball if the opposing ball handler is loose with the ball and is ripe for aggressive move on TP's part to go for steal.

You guys all say Pop controls TP to the nth degree....I just don't buy that. He might give TP some general guidance but it's up to TP to perform and take what the other team gives, whether it be on offence or defence.

Please let's not excuse everything that TP does not do by saying Pop doesn't allow him to.......and obviously the corollary to that logic is that if in fact Pop won't let TP score in the crunch time or go for steals or pass too much (which I highly doubt), there is probably a reason for Pop to be so restrictive on TP -- and that reason cannot be a positive one if you get my drift.

Players have lot more leeway and control of what they do on the court. Remember when Manu was a rookie and he drove Pop nuts with all his gambling and crazy plays he used to risk? Well Pop i am sure told him way more than TP to tone it down and play under more control...Manu didn't listen and he didn't get kicked out of the team. If TP can actually pass well, score in the 4th, and put up lock-down defence and steal lot of balls, are you actually going to tell me that Pop wouldn't let him or that in fact TP would not be doing those things?

Too funny.'

[SequSpur]

Pop is a dumbfuck.

[Spurs Brazil]

Since Pop came with this TP is playing like crap

And the STUPID Finley is playing like always - TERRIBLE

Now we have TP playing bad because they want to get a 35 year old player to get his confidence back

[SequSpur]

Tony Parker just passed up 2 wide open threes!!!!!!! :lol :lmao

What a fuckin joke.....

[SequNets]

:lmao

[telecomguy]

Tony Parker just passed up 2 wide open threes!!!!!!! :lol :lmao

What a fuckin joke.....

The joke is Parker missing easy jumpers. Why do you think TP passed up wide open 3's? He can't hit them, and he KNOWS that!!

5-13 was Parker's line today. You want him to shoot more? There was one classic situation where as usual TP dribbles headling into about 4 Rocket defenders including Mutombo.....he lost the ball trying to force his way in. TP's basketball IQ is really too low for him to be a good PG. I am inclined to think that unless TP can hit jumpers or create open shots for his teammates, perhaps we should have traded TP for Iverson. At least Iverson doesn't choke and wants the damn ball when the game is on the line.

[Kori Ellis]

The joke is Parker missing easy jumpers. Why do you think TP passed up wide open 3's? He can't hit them, and he KNOWS that!!

5-13 was Parker's line today. You want him to shoot more? There was one classic situation where as usual TP dribbles headling into about 4 Rocket defenders including Mutombo.....he lost the ball trying to force his way in. TP's basketball IQ is really too low for him to be a good PG. I am inclined to think that unless TP can hit jumpers or create open shots for his teammates, perhaps we should have traded TP for Iverson. At least Iverson doesn't choke and wants the damn ball when the game is on the line.

On the season, Tony is hitting 50% of his jumpers outside the key.

But keep hating. It just makes you look ridiculous.

[timvp]

The joke is Parker missing easy jumpers. Why do you think TP passed up wide open 3's? He can't hit them, and he KNOWS that!!

5-13 was Parker's line today. You want him to shoot more? There was one classic situation where as usual TP dribbles headling into about 4 Rocket defenders including Mutombo.....he lost the ball trying to force his way in. TP's basketball IQ is really too low for him to be a good PG. I am inclined to think that unless TP can hit jumpers or create open shots for his teammates, perhaps we should have traded TP for Iverson. At least Iverson doesn't choke and wants the damn ball when the game is on the line.

Do you have anything else in your game other than Parker bashing?

Parker is asked not to be as aggressive offensively and the Spurs struggle to score. The only time he shoots is when the Rockets don't guard him on his jumpers. When he drove in, he passed the ball.

Yet, Parker haters still hate.

Amazing.

[Kori Ellis]

When Tony went out of the game near the end of the 3rd, the Spurs were about tied I believe.

When he came back in, they were down by 9 or 10.

But keep blaming Parker :lol

[ShoogarBear]

Smart thinkin' there, blaming this on Parker. Really boosts up your basketball credentials there.

[johnpaulwall21]

Parkers been doing good but teams are strategizing how to go at him and take away his game, and hes still bout 19 pts a game that aint bad. the other players dont have to worry about that but they still cant score. it shouldnt be tony to blame.

[telecomguy]

Do you have anything else in your game other than Parker bashing?

Parker is asked not to be as aggressive offensively and the Spurs struggle to score. The only time he shoots is when the Rockets don't guard him on his jumpers. When he drove in, he passed the ball.

Yet, Parker haters still hate.

Amazing.

ok, let me see if I understand your logic. You claim that the ONLY time Parker shot today is when the Rockets didn't guard him, giving him wide-open mid range jumpers. And he ended up with 5 for 13 shot attempts???? Shit, Nash or Billups would have hit 10 or 11 out of 13 of those shot attempst. They were EASY, uncontested shots that a good guard should be able to hit with high degree of success from 17 feet out.

[timvp]

ok, let me see if I understand your logic. You claim that the ONLY time Parker shot today is when the Rockets didn't guard him, giving him wide-open mid range jumpers. And he ended up with 5 for 13 shot attempts???? Shit, Nash or Billups would have hit 10 or 11 out of 13 of those shot attempst. They were EASY, uncontested shots that a good guard should be able to hit with high degree of success from 17 feet out.

Billups shoots 40% on his mid-range jumpers. So if he shot 13, he'd hit *gasp* 5 of them.

If you watched this game and you think Parker is the main problem, you need to turn off your tv and pick up a new hobby. Especially a Parker who was told to pass more and shoot less.

Again, do you have anything else to add or is your only purpose of being to bash Parker after every game?

[Kori Ellis]

Seriously, maybe you should stop posting here.

You don't bring anything to the table but Parker bashing.

You say he can't hit jumpers, but he does.

You say that you don't want him to be the first or second scoring option, the past few games he hasn't been, and the Spurs offense has sucked.

You are complaining about his turnovers tonight, but he had six assists and one turnover.

You should consider forum retirement because you are embarrassing.

[ShoogarBear]

:lol Since when has idiotic Parker bashing been cause for a request to retire? I thought those guys had their own club with treehouse meetings and decoder rings and shit.

[telecomguy]

Billups shoots 40% on his mid-range jumpers. So if he shot 13, he'd hit *gasp* 5 of them.

If you watched this game and you think Parker is the main problem, you need to turn off your tv and pick up a new hobby. Especially a Parker who was told to pass more and shoot less.

Again, do you have anything else to add or is your only purpose of being to bash Parker after every game?


Excuse me but guys like Billups, Nash, and T-Mac would NEVER EVER get uncontested mid-range jump shot opportunities. They would murder them. Even Sam Cassells would kill any team that would give him open look, uncontested jumpers. This is what you don't seem to understand......ROckets ALLOWED Parker to get his jumpers uncontested because they would rather let him go for his shitty jumpers than leave TD undermanned or allow Parker to penetrate. If Parker can't punish them when they do that, then essentially we are playing 2 against 5 (2 being TD and Manu). It was amazing TD even got that many points and rebounds considering all the bigs from ROckets that were staying in the paint.

our top PG cannot pass and he can't hit easy uncontested jumpers, and he dissappears in the clutch situation (4th qtr) on a regular basis.

and you do not think this is a problem?

[Kori Ellis]

our top PG cannot pass and he can't hit easy uncontested jumpers, and he dissappears in the clutch situation (4th qtr) on a regular basis.



Just type this over and over. That's your take in every post. No reason to waste anymore keystrokes.

[telecomguy]

Seriously, maybe you should stop posting here.

You don't bring anything to the table but Parker bashing.

You say he can't hit jumpers, but he does.

You say that you don't want him to be the first or second scoring option, the past few games he hasn't been, and the Spurs offense has sucked.

You are complaining about his turnovers tonight, but he had six assists and one turnover.

You should consider forum retirement because you are embarrassing.


I never complained TONIGHT about TP's turnover. He wasn't the worst player on the court today but he didn't do much either. and he STILL took 13 shots.
I don't understand why you guys defend him so much. He is not doing his job in my opinion and if he can't be a good PG, then we have to find someone else.

Picture IVERSON as a Spur tonight instead of TP. I think the outcome might have been different, although as I said TP was not the only reason we lost.

BOwen has really slipped. Tmac elevated over Bowen over and over again........and it seems Bowen isn't fast enough to get there quickly and elevate high enough to cause problems for pure shooters like Kobe or TMac.

[timvp]

Excuse me but guys like Billups, Nash, and T-Mac would NEVER EVER get uncontested mid-range jump shot opportunities. They would murder them. Even Sam Cassells would kill any team that would give him open look, uncontested jumpers. This is what you don't seem to understand......ROckets ALLOWED Parker to get his jumpers uncontested because they would rather let him go for his shitty jumpers than leave TD undermanned or allow Parker to penetrate. If Parker can't punish them when they do that, then essentially we are playing 2 against 5 (2 being TD and Manu). It was amazing TD even got that many points and rebounds considering all the bigs from ROckets that were staying in the paint.

our top PG cannot pass and he can't hit easy uncontested jumpers, and he dissappears in the clutch situation (4th qtr) on a regular basis.

and you do not think this is a problem?

The Spurs won two championships when Parker was a worse shooter. The Spurs won a championship with a point guard who makes Parker look like Larry Bird.

Parker is far from being the problem this year. If you can't figure that out, take up basket weaving.

The only question is why do I bother replying.

[Marcus Bryant]

Fuck man if TP doesn't shoot & Manu doesn't shoot, who the fuck is going to put up points? This team is weak as it is from 4-12. Sonofabitch TP has replaced Malik as Pop's favorite whipping boy. And the peasants march in lock step.

[Kori Ellis]

I never complained TONIGHT about TP's turnover.

So you don't even read your own fucking posts? I guess I should stop reading them too.


There was one classic situation where as usual TP dribbles headling into about 4 Rocket defenders including Mutombo.....he lost the ball trying to force his way in. TP's basketball IQ is really too low for him to be a good PG.

[ChumpDumper]

and he STILL took 13 shots.
Picture IVERSON as a Spur tonight instead of TP.
:dizzy

[Kori Ellis]

Seriously, in your 40 something posts here, only one of them is not bashing Parker.

Get a new schtick.

I understand why they hated you at SpursReport. :lol

[phxspurfan]

this is a really bad idea. parker is not chauncey billups. take away his license to shoot and he is suddenly craptacular. and thats a conservative judgment. i mean he will be h-o-rrible.

[gilmor]

I didn't know some one working in telco will suck so bad.. man that is depressing..

[ginobili fan]

Are you saying that he gives green light for Manu to steal (because Manu steals a lot) but won't give Tony the option of going for steal? What kind of coach would try to micromanage a player to that extent? Pop would be insane to stop TP from stealing the ball if the opposing ball handler is loose with the ball and is ripe for aggressive move on TP's part to go for steal.

You guys all say Pop controls TP to the nth degree....I just don't buy that. He might give TP some general guidance but it's up to TP to perform and take what the other team gives, whether it be on offence or defence.

Please let's not excuse everything that TP does not do by saying Pop doesn't allow him to.......and obviously the corollary to that logic is that if in fact Pop won't let TP score in the crunch time or go for steals or pass too much (which I highly doubt), there is probably a reason for Pop to be so restrictive on TP -- and that reason cannot be a positive one if you get my drift.

Players have lot more leeway and control of what they do on the court. Remember when Manu was a rookie and he drove Pop nuts with all his gambling and crazy plays he used to risk? Well Pop i am sure told him way more than TP to tone it down and play under more control...Manu didn't listen and he didn't get kicked out of the team. If TP can actually pass well, score in the 4th, and put up lock-down defence and steal lot of balls, are you actually going to tell me that Pop wouldn't let him or that in fact TP would not be doing those things?

Too funny.'

I said TP said that in a radio show.Then I think it is true.
More, you're talking like you know pop but you don't know him.
And I though that you weren't a hater but a constructive and reasonnable guy but I was wrong.
Plus, Manu is Manu,then he has the green light.
Plus, yeah,"Pop wouldn't let him or that in fact TP not be doing those things".
Tp himself said that.And everyone in this forum know that except you, I mean do you really understand the spurs game?
Just 2 words:stop basketball

[telecomguy]

So you don't even read your own fucking posts? I guess I should stop reading them too.


excuse me but if you read the post intelligently, you would have seen that I brought up that example of what Tony does on a regular basis......lack of court vision. I wasn't talking about turnovers on that post but his general inability to understand that he cannot barrell headlong into a trap and should have bailed out instead of jumping up with the ball with 3 bigs around him and then having no option but to throw a wild pass or get his shot blocked.

[telecomguy]

The Spurs won two championships when Parker was a worse shooter. The Spurs won a championship with a point guard who makes Parker look like Larry Bird.

Parker is far from being the problem this year. If you can't figure that out, take up basket weaving.

The only question is why do I bother replying.

Excuse me but Speedy Claxton is not exactly a chopped liver. In fact as I recall that he hit many huge clutch jumpers, and defended far better than TP, and moved the ball around well in that playoffs when TP started playing very poorly.

[2centsworth]

Excuse me but Speedy Claxton is not exactly a chopped liver. In fact as I recall that he hit many huge clutch jumpers, and defended far better than TP, and moved the ball around well in that playoffs when TP started playing very poorly.
Spurs don't get past Dallas in '03 without Parker. He was unconscious in games 3 and 4. Prompted Pop to say "I shouldn't try to make him John Stockton, he's Tony FREAKIN Parker" an unstoppable scoring force when Pop lets him loose.

Tony is not close to being the problem this year.

[telecomguy]

Spurs don't get past Dallas in '03 without Parker. He was unconscious in games 3 and 4. Prompted Pop to say "I shouldn't try to make him John Stockton, he's Tony FREAKIN Parker" an unstoppable scoring force when Pop lets him loose.

Tony is not close to being the problem this year.

look, I am not saying that Tony is a screw up. But we really do need a good PG who can distribute and make things happen due to the way the game is officiated and the type of players we have. TP has to live up to the hype and play more of an all-around game and get the team's offense moving, make it less predictable, etc. This is exactly why Pop was trying to convey to TP to try to pass more and create more openings for the other Spurs rather than keep going to the hoop because such a one-dimensional offense simply doesn't work well against good teams with good defenders. Most importantly, he has to learn to punish the defence when they sag. Against Dallas, how is TP going to get his points in the paint against Diop, Dampier, Notwitzki, Howard, etc...??? they are going to clog up the middle and dare him to shoot and cover TD/Manu tightly. If Parker can't dipsy doodle his way, probe and create movement in the Spurs offence, our offence will once again be totally dependent on 4 down (dumping into Duncan & watch)