Who runs the offense?

[Fabbs]

Who implements the plans for the Spurs offense?

I know PJs title is offensive coach.
Pops is head coach.

But who really determines the overall plodding slow down offense including the often run 4 Dumb?

Not talking about 4 Down per say when people move, talking about 4 Dumb run roughly 40% of the time, when they dump it to Tim and stand around.
The tape doesn't lie, those who say this does not happen save your bullcrap for your own thread.
Also if you claim Pop does not order this, at the very least he condones it.

You can go ahead and try blaming the players, but they so obviously have to defer to Duncan and suppress creativity and fastbreaking all to often. Oh sure Manu cuts loose at times and Tony does his driving, but the set O is Dump to Tim and all 4 stand. If you want to spin it some other way, go ahead.

[WalterBenitez]

About O...

Going with TD is obvious, you know that could be the side effect of having a superstar; but nobody could argue about that; probably in some situations you have to change to surprise but at the end of the day your superstar will carry the team:nerd

The real creativity that a talented coach's team houd have is identifying when to go with TP and/or Manu ... you know how TP/Manu are ... so live with that.

I am really surprised (take into consideration I don't follow Spurs on TV frequently) why POP and his staff trends to go with either TD, TP and/or Manu when you see they are frozen :cry

[telecomguy]

About O...

Going with TD is obvious, you know that could be the side effect of having a superstar; but nobody could argue about that; probably in some situations you have to change to surprise but at the end of the day your superstar will carry the team:nerd

The real creativity that a talented coach's team houd have is identifying when to go with TP and/or Manu ... you know how TP/Manu are ... so live with that.

I am really surprised (take into consideration I don't follow Spurs on TV frequently) why POP and his staff trends to go with either TD, TP and/or Manu when you see they are frozen :cry


At the risk of repeating myself, one of the reason why Spurs rely on TD so much is because we don't have a PG who can CREATE. We basically have two SG (TP & Manu) and no PG. If you ever watch the real PG's you would understand what I mean.

What may make sense is to find a pure PG who can really distribute, and create openings......and have that PG play with TP as the Scoring Guard, and then bring Manu off the bench. The question is of course where are we going to find that good PG who can hit jumpers, make crisp passes, and create openings. (actually Barry is not too bad as a passer and can certainly hit the jumpers as well as drive.....so an interesting option may be to give the ball to Barry to bring up and let HIM coordinate the offense instead of Parker).

[johnpaulwall21]

so ur saying move tp to sg and manu to sf and get a pure point guard? anything to get bowens ass out of the starting line up. :wakeup

[Fabbs]

At the risk of repeating myself, one of the reason why Spurs rely on TD so much is because we don't have a PG who can CREATE. We basically have two SG (TP & Manu) and no PG. If you ever watch the real PG's you would understand what I mean.

What may make sense is to find a pure PG who can really distribute, and create openings......and have that PG play with TP as the Scoring Guard, and then bring Manu off the bench. The question is of course where are we going to find that good PG who can hit jumpers, make crisp passes, and create openings. (actually Barry is not too bad as a passer and can certainly hit the jumpers as well as drive.....so an interesting option may be to give the ball to Barry to bring up and let HIM coordinate the offense instead of Parker).

Jason Kidd while NJ pays his salary would be a nice pipedream.
Current roster has plenty of people who can run and run very well.
As you mentioned Barry, Parker, GNob, and now Elson.
Pop-A-Cement won't let it happen from what i can see.

Does PJ have any say in the offense?

[ducks]

so ur saying move tp to sg and manu to sf and get a pure point guard? anything to get bowens ass out of the starting line up. :wakeup

did you look at the plus numbers last night
bowen and tp were plus 12 when on the court

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

At the risk of repeating myself, one of the reason why Spurs rely on TD so much is because we don't have a PG who can CREATE. We basically have two SG (TP & Manu) and no PG. If you ever watch the real PG's you would understand what I mean.

What may make sense is to find a pure PG who can really distribute, and create openings......and have that PG play with TP as the Scoring Guard, and then bring Manu off the bench. The question is of course where are we going to find that good PG who can hit jumpers, make crisp passes, and create openings. (actually Barry is not too bad as a passer and can certainly hit the jumpers as well as drive.....so an interesting option may be to give the ball to Barry to bring up and let HIM coordinate the offense instead of Parker).

Unfortunately your problem is that you don't appear to understand how our offense is designed.

It's not designed to be running thorugh the PG, it's designed to run through Duncan, with shooters surrounding him on the floor.

As long as Tim is here and Pop is coach, the role of the PG in the Spurs offense will NEVER be to create the offense. It will be to dribble the ball up the court, get it to Duncan, and hit the open shots on the kickback.

[telecomguy]

so ur saying move tp to sg and manu to sf and get a pure point guard? anything to get bowens ass out of the starting line up. :wakeup

yeah -- for example Bulls have Ben Gordon who is strictly a pure Scoring Guard.....that guy can flat out score. So they use Hinrich to do most of the ball handling and distribution although Gordon can also handle the ball and Hinrich can also shoot the 3's pretty effectively.


We have a weird situation where TP is mostly trying to score (unfortunately it's one dimensional dribble penetration) but he has the ball most of the time (when TD doesn't have it), so Manu just ends up floating around most of the time until the 4th when TP stops being effective and start deferring the offense to TD and Manu. Manu is not a pure SG either because he actually likes to create more than TP and is a pretty good passer -- unfortunately he doesn't touch the ball enough and has to get his points the hard way, via broken plays, fastbreaks, steals, foul shots, etc....

[ChumpDumper]

yeah -- for example Bulls have Ben Gordon who is strictly a pure Scoring Guard.And they are looking for a guy like Duncan.

Go figure.

[telecomguy]

Unfortunately your problem is that you don't appear to understand how our offense is designed.

It's not designed to be running thorugh the PG, it's designed to run through Duncan, with shooters surrounding him on the floor.

As long as Tim is here and Pop is coach, the role of the PG in the Spurs offense will NEVER be to create the offense. It will be to dribble the ball up the court, get it to Duncan, and hit the open shots on the kickback.


so does Parker hit the open shots on the kickback? Not consistently enough.

and if you are correct about this (which I disagree because TP handles the ball just as much, if not more than TD these days -- i think the 4 down was few years ago when TD was totally dominant and TP was just a fast-running rookie), then why do we really need a good PG period?

Just trade TP and get someone like Luol Deng (was he ever impressive or what against Dallas last night? That guy is everything SPurs need right now....good rebounder, good jump shooter, hustles, good attitude, length, quickness, strength......).

A starting lineup of Deng, Manu, TD, Elson/Oberto, Bowen would be an amazing lockdown defensive team.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

A starting lineup of Deng, Manu, TD, Elson/Oberto, Bowen would be an amazing lockdown defensive team.

Who checks the quick point guards of the league? Neither Manu or Deng can.

Who deals with the pressure of the quick defensive points in the league? Neither can.

Parker's got a pretty reliable jumper, is one of the fastest points in the league, and plays pretty solid defense out there.

Outside of Chris Paul and Gilbert Arenas there's not many other guys in the league that would fit our offense better than Tony.

[telecomguy]

Who checks the quick point guards of the league? Neither Manu or Deng can.

Who deals with the pressure of the quick defensive points in the league? Neither can.

Parker's got a pretty reliable jumper, is one of the fastest points in the league, and plays pretty solid defense out there.

Outside of Chris Paul and Gilbert Arenas there's not many other guys in the league that would fit our offense better than Tony.

I absolutely disagree with you that TP is a good defender. He gets pushed around pretty easily and doesn't have a long reach/strength or active hands to harass the defender. He routinely gets killed on pick n rolls. I have never heard any announcers talk about TP being a good defender like Billups or Kidd.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Not sure.

But Bruce Bowen is our defensive coordinator.

[ChumpDumper]

We need the same arguments cut and pasted in at least three threads. Repetition makes things more true.

[Fabbs]

^ If anyone could repeat to me who implements the Spurs O.

Phil Jackson defers to Tex Winters.
Does Pop defer or simply dictate?

[Que Gee]

yeah -- for example Bulls have Ben Gordon who is strictly a pure Scoring Guard.....that guy can flat out score. So they use Hinrich to do most of the ball handling and distribution although Gordon can also handle the ball and Hinrich can also shoot the 3's pretty effectively.


We have a weird situation where TP is mostly trying to score (unfortunately it's one dimensional dribble penetration) but he has the ball most of the time (when TD doesn't have it), so Manu just ends up floating around most of the time until the 4th when TP stops being effective and start deferring the offense to TD and Manu. Manu is not a pure SG either because he actually likes to create more than TP and is a pretty good passer -- unfortunately he doesn't touch the ball enough and has to get his points the hard way, via broken plays, fastbreaks, steals, foul shots, etc....

You speak to much truth...people on this board are going to bash you.
:blah

You can't criticize, because they'll go dig through a bunch of "stats" to try and prove you wrong, instead just understanding how the "game" works....Good luck. :spin

[Trainwreck2100]

The spurs should go after Charlie Whise

[ChumpDumper]

You can't criticizeBrent Barry sucks.

[Trainwreck2100]

Brent Barry sucks.

only 75% of the time