MYSA: Bryant hit by NBA for swipe [Archive]

TMTTRIO

01-31-2007, 01:53 AM

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...t.1d87fd4.html

Bryant hit by NBA for swipe

Web Posted: 01/30/2007 11:35 PM CST

Johnny Ludden
Express-News

SALT LAKE CITY — Of the countless bruises, cuts, bumps, sprains and strains Manu Ginobili has sustained throughout his career, he doesn't ever recall having a black eye.
El Contusión found the latest addition to his collection to be rather painful. It also proved to be quite expensive for the person who produced it.

The NBA suspended Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant on Monday for one game for "striking" Ginobili at the end of the fourth quarter of the Spurs' victory on Sunday. Without Bryant, the Lakers lost 99-94 in New York on Monday night.

Bryant also lost about $162,000 in pay.

"Am I getting anything?" Ginobili asked with a laugh. "If I could get 25 percent, I'd take it."

Ginobili won't get a cut of Bryant's lost wages. Nor did he take comfort in learning Bryant had been suspended.

"I don't have anything against him," Ginobili said. "I respect him a lot. I was kind of surprised (at the force of the blow) when I saw the tape.

"I blocked the shot, and all I felt was 'boom.' I didn't really know what was happening."

The incident occurred on the final play of regulation. After Ginobili blocked Bryant's shot from behind, Bryant flailed his right arm back, hitting the Spurs guard flush in the face.

Ginobili dropped to the court and remained there for a few minutes while the Spurs' training staff attended to him. The Spurs initially thought he might have broken his nose, but the Lakers' doctor cleared him to return midway through the overtime period.

X-rays taken after the game were negative. Ginobili said his face is still sore when touched, but he'll play tonight against Utah.

"He took a hell of a whack," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "Besides that hit, his neck really snapped :( . I thought he was really hurt."

Stu Jackson, the NBA's executive vice president of basketball operations, said Bryant was suspended because of the location of the contact. He also said the reaction by Bryant to swing his right arm backward was an "unnatural act."

"This is all about the safety of our players in the workplace," Jackson said. "When we get contact above the shoulders, it becomes a player safety issue, and it's treated accordingly."

After looking at replays, Ginobili also didn't think Bryant was making a normal follow-through motion after his shot. But he said Bryant apologized to him immediately after the incident and again after he returned in overtime.

"I don't know if he did it on purpose or not," Ginobili said. "What I can tell about the story is, first, I didn't have an argument (with Bryant). There was no threats, no elbows, nothing. He apologized. Those are the three things that involved me."

Bryant, who won't face the Spurs again this season unless the teams meet in the playoffs, told reporters in New York that he didn't mean to hit Ginobili and was "blown away" when told he was being suspended.

"It's just unintentional," Bryant said. "I felt horrible about it. It's just basketball, it happens."

Bryant tried to schedule a meeting with NBA officials Monday afternoon to appeal the suspension but was denied. League policy in such cases allows players an opportunity to appeal only for their lost wages.

"There's a shot, it's a block, there's two guys on him, he's trying to draw contact so that he gets to the foul line hopefully at the end of the game if he can't get the shot off," Lakers coach Phil Jackson said before Monday night's game. "There's so many things going into it that to draw a conclusion like that leads me to think that a non-basketball player probably made the decision on this particular act."

Popovich initially said after Sunday's game he thought Bryant's action was a "natural movement for a shooter coming down." But that was before he saw a replay of the incident.

Asked whether he complained to league officials that Bryant should be suspended, Popovich said, "I'll just keep my thoughts to myself."

"I just leave those things to the league to decide," Popovich said. "The league is very consistent at trying to take away physical plays that are over the line. They're not going to let anything get by them.

"They're going to decide whether it was flagrant or not. They're not going to call me and ask what I think."

A foul wasn't called on the play. Nor did the league assess Bryant a flagrant penalty when suspending him.

Had the referees determined Bryant had already released the shot before hitting Ginobili and called a loose-ball foul, Ginobili would have been given two free throws and a chance to win the game before it went into overtime. Popovich said he understood why the referees didn't make the call.

"It really happened quick," he said. "Even in the replay, you had to replay it a couple of times."

This is the second time a player has been suspended for hitting Ginobili in the face. Sacramento guard Ron Artest received a one-game suspension when he caught Ginobili in the head with a forearm in the teams' playoff opener last season.

"Ron didn't apologize," Ginobili said, "but this one hurt more."

SuperManu!!!

01-31-2007, 03:00 AM

NIce article...i hope this is the only and last fight between manu and kobe

Please_dont_ban_me

01-31-2007, 03:11 AM

Lol @ 'Ron didn't apologize'.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

01-31-2007, 03:12 AM

I thought Ron loves Manu's game as well!

Lol @ 'Ron didn't apologize'.
That's because he's about being real...

Kobe's a fraud.

lovespurs forever

01-31-2007, 04:11 AM

I want to know what about Raja Bell think this time? :smokin :lol

ponky

01-31-2007, 05:47 AM

I want to know what about Raja Bell think this time? :smokin :lol

i'll tell you what raja bell thinks right now: "beat the spurs tomorrow"

milkyway21

01-31-2007, 05:48 AM

I thought Ron loves Manu's game as well!

That's because he's about being real...

Kobe's a fraud.
i appreciate Kobe's attempt to apologize to Manu TWICE after that incident, intentional or not. I don't understand why other people think otherwise.

Artest is thug.

ponky

01-31-2007, 05:51 AM

i appreciate Kobe's attempt to apologize to Manu TWICE after that incident, intentional or not. I don't understand why other people think otherwise.

Artest is thug.

Apparently he also called him Monday morning as well, but whatever, idiots feel better if they can call Kobe a "thug," whatever that means.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

01-31-2007, 05:59 AM

No one called Kobe a thug. I called him a fraud.

and it was more or less tongue-in-cheek about Ron Artest not apologizing.

There wasn't any weight in that comment above.

Honestly, I think Kobe respects Manu on the court. He even mentioned that on the video response, that he wouldn't ever hurt him. He does throw cheap shots at other players. Does that make him a thug? Nope. He's just a flailing bitch. He's done that shooting arm move a couple other times in the past season and last season. The league wised up and took the opportunity to send him that message.

That said, screw Kobe and his apologies. I'm more or less indifferent to the rapist's behavior.

WalterBenitez

01-31-2007, 06:01 AM

i appreciate Kobe's attempt to apologize to Manu TWICE after that incident, intentional or not. I don't understand why other people think otherwise. Artest is thug.

I didn't know that and even didn't see that on tv; that changes my perception of Kobe :toast , I think did a hard foul on someone in that game and he offered his apologize and helped him.

Besides this incidend (Kobe involved) it'll be good for the league keep coherent with those stuff I saw a game where a guy from Miami almost cut the head of Loul Deng and nothing happened :oops

ponky

01-31-2007, 06:01 AM

ponky

01-31-2007, 06:08 AM

I didn't know that and even didn't see that on tv; that changes my perception of Kobe :toast , I think did a hard foul on someone in that game and he offered his apologize and helped him.

Besides this incidend (Kobe involved) it'll be good for the league keep coherent with those stuff I saw a game where a guy from Miami almost cut the head of Loul Deng and nothing happened :oops

I think it's funny, all these softies going on and on about Kobe hurting Manu intentionally. You wanna see someone doing something intentional and not giving a shit about that person, no apologies, no calls, nothing? Let's talk about Malone dropping David Robinson cold back in the late 90s....Robinson went unconscious for two minutes and even though Malone received a suspension, Robinson actually received a foul for that play. Malone has put ridiculous hurt on many guys' faces, much worse than what happened to Manu (remember Isaiah?) and he didn't even get a slap on the wrist. I remember reading about how he ended some guy's career back in college and walked off the court like he could care less about what had just happened. He never gave a shit for any of his opponents and refused to apologize for anything to do so there's a comparison for all these people calling Kobe whatever they get off on calling him and acting like this is the biggest news of the day.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

01-31-2007, 06:10 AM

Way to take the easy way out and just call him a rapist, which BTW, he isn't. It's amazing how dumb people are becoming these days. Anyway, so are you saying Manu doesn't flop to get calls?
No, what I'm saying is his forearm was a reckless move.

And I'm not looking to argue his rape case on here. Besides were you there on the night in question? You can infer from circumstantial evidence and all that but you can't claim that as a fact. Even if evidence points to he didn't do it and all that. Rape or not. Adultery. I don't really care.

Don't pick apart my petty off-the-cuff remarks, PONKY... even if I don't give much weight since it's just smack talk against a player I don't really respect.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

01-31-2007, 06:15 AM

I think it's funny, all these softies going on and on about Kobe hurting Manu intentionally. You wanna see someone doing something intentional and not giving a shit about that person, no apologies, no calls, nothing? Let's talk about Malone dropping David Robinson cold back in the late 90s....Robinson went unconscious for two minutes and even though Malone received a suspension, Robinson actually received a foul for that play. Malone has put ridiculous hurt on many guys' faces, much worse than what happened to Manu (remember Isaiah?) and he didn't even get a slap on the wrist. I remember reading about how he ended some guy's career back in college and walked off the court like he could care less about what had just happened. He never gave a shit for any of his opponents and refused to apologize for anything to do so there's a comparison for all these people calling Kobe whatever they get off on calling him and acting like this is the biggest news of the day.

The league was different ten, fifteen years ago. It's "Pussy" league rules now, post 2004.
And the one's who aren't protesting the league's decision for Kobe's suspension are just going off of whatever warrants a suspension according to the league's rule and judgement now. All that stuff about what Malone did is irrelevant, because they're not measuring by precedents they're going off of conduct POST-BRAWL days.

milkyway21

01-31-2007, 06:17 AM

But he said Bryant apologized to him immediately after the incident and again after he returned in overtime.
this is enough reason for me say what kind of person Kobe is. He is apologetic, and if he realized he did wrong he apologized again to Manu which means he is doesn't really want to harm him in the first place but maybe just to draw a foul.

when you hurt somebody you say sorry, and that is one way of showing respect.

Artest not apologizing might mean he's thinking Manu deserves it, or he simply doesn't care if something he did had hurt someone and might cause him missing a game.

ponky

01-31-2007, 06:18 AM

No, what I'm saying is his forearm was a reckless move.

And I'm not looking to argue his rape case on here. Besides were you there on the night in question? You can infer from circumstantial evidence and all that but you can't claim that as a fact. Even if evidence points to he didn't do it and all that. Rape or not. Adultery. I don't really care.

Don't pick apart my petty off-the-cuff remarks, PONKY... even if I don't give much weight since it's just smack talk against a player I don't really respect.

No, I was not there that night, which is why I am not calling him a rapist, you are. You know, there's a reason that the prosecution got fucked over for withholding exculpatory evidence, maybe you should go find out what exactly it was they were witholding and why the *victim* wanted to drop the criminal suit. Calling someone a rapist is weak when the victim herself dropped the suit and went after a more *rewarding* civil suit that didn't punish the accused in any significant way.

I agree that his forearm was reckless, but it doesn't make him a fraud, it makes him one of dozens of ballers looking for a foul call. You haven't answered my question about Manu.

ponky

01-31-2007, 06:25 AM

The league was different ten, fifteen years ago. It's "Pussy" league rules now, post 2004.
And the one's who aren't protesting the league's decision for Kobe's suspension are just going off of whatever warrants a suspension according to the league's rule and judgement now. All that stuff about what Malone did is irrelevant, because they're not measuring by precedents they're going off of conduct POST-BRAWL days.

i'm not an automaton, content to happily watch the nba go through all its transformations...i want stu and stern out, they've ruined the league and babysit the players, all of them. i certainly am measuring the league today from the league when i was a kid, it was much more exciting back then and i'd like to see it return to those days. anyway, the reason i posted the stuff about karl was to show that at least kobe showed concerned and contacted manu three times after the incident, which to me, is not the sign of a guy who would do something like that intentionally....it wasn't to compare the current state of suspensions although, if you wanna do that, I can play that game too.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

01-31-2007, 06:25 AM

No, I was not there that night, which is why I am not calling him a rapist, you are.
So basically your point is moot. We both can't call him a rapist and non-rapist.

You know, there's a reason that the prosecution got fucked over for withholding exculpatory evidence, maybe you should go find out what exactly it was they were witholding and why the *victim* wanted to drop the criminal suit. Calling someone a rapist is weak when the victim herself dropped the suit and went after a more *rewarding* civil suit that didn't punish the accused in any significant way.
I'm aware of this. I 've read and heard of this with my Laker fan roommates WAYYYY back when. I was taking a petty slight at the baggage Kobe did himself over by getting tangled in the first place. I even admitted evidence points towards him NOT being guilty.
You want me to take back my rapist remark and say I didn't mean it ?then FINE!

I agree that his forearm was reckless, but it doesn't make him a fraud, it makes him one of dozens of ballers looking for a foul call.
ACk, what are you doing to me Ponky!

I can't help it if my fraud statements apply to empirical perceptions, of him in the past.
I was just insinuating Kobe's good deeds don't hold weight. I don't really mean it. I don't like Kobe. I respect his game. But most of the time, It'll be a cold day in hell before I defend the dude. Even if I personally don't believe in this case Kobe wanted to hurt Manu. I'm just joking that he's lying about it.

You haven't answered my question about Manu. Next time Manu clocks someone in the head with equal severity and potentially dangerous damage with his flopping reckless styl, then I can't say I'd protest if they suspend him for it.
Anyway, this season Manu has toned down a lot of his flopping, wouldn't you say?

milkyway21

01-31-2007, 06:27 AM

:dizzy :dizzy :dizzy

ponky

01-31-2007, 06:35 AM

So basically your point is moot. We both can't call him a rapist and non-rapist.

Oh yeah, I forget, guys think this kind of shit is funny when used as an insult, my bad. See, I have these season tix next to two hicks that like to chant shit like "rapist" and "now you know what it feels like to get raped" at the lakers games. It's disgusting and I'm pretty thick-skinned but not when it comes to wasting money sitting next to idiots.

Next time Manu clocks someone in the head with equal severity and potentially dangerous damage with his flopping reckless styl, then I can't say I'd protest if they suspend him for it.
Anyway, this season Manu has toned down a lot of his flopping, wouldn't you say?

I will admit that Manu has toned it down quite a bit but he's still a *fraud* to use your term when it comes to trying to sell the call...all ballers learn how to do it because it is rewarded. It is good that it seems like the NBA has toned it down a bit with rewarding the flopping so much, although there is still quite a bit of inconsistency.

ponky

01-31-2007, 06:37 AM

oh, and i'm bored, it's early in the morning, and i'm procrastinating...otherwise i could care less as long as the games on tonight are good! :)

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

01-31-2007, 06:48 AM

Oh yeah, I forget, guys think this kind of shit is funny when used as an insult, my bad. See, I have these season tix next to two hicks that like to chant shit like "rapist" and "now you know what it feels like to get raped" at the lakers games. It's disgusting and I'm pretty thick-skinned but not when it comes to wasting money sitting next to idiots.
Well, I'll think twice next time I wanna holler it at Kobe if I get tix to go to the Staples Center.
I'm not crying that Kobe got caught and mixed up in that mess. He has to prepare for the idiots' remarks like that. They'll lap it up at the opportunity.
That said, in all seriousness, yeah you're probably right. It's insensitive to women.

I will admit that Manu has toned it down quite a bit but he's still a *fraud* to use your term when it comes to trying to sell the call...all ballers learn how to do it because it is rewarded. It is good that it seems like the NBA has toned it down a bit with rewarding the flopping so much, although there is still quite a bit of inconsistency.
Well, I was more focused on Kobe's forearm antics. He popped Dirk if you don't remember with his "unnatura"l forearm motions. I guess it just varies on how you sell the call. Manu's flopping was usually just annoying (if you're the opposing team). Obviously Kobe's "fraudalent" antics weren't anything special, he's one of dozens of players who wise up on how to sell a foul. He just happened to have Manu's head at the wrong place at the wrong time. Sucks for him. And the Lakers. But the players will adjust. Manu did. Mostly because of the equal chances of causing injury to himself.

Cry Havoc

01-31-2007, 06:49 AM

Asked whether he complained to league officials that Bryant should be suspended, Popovich said, "I'll just keep my thoughts to myself."

Bwah hah hah. That's so hilarious. I wonder what Pop's really thinking.

What's the over/under for Kobe's point total against the Celtics? I feel sorry for them.

To me, the biggest a-hole in the entire situation is Phil. I cannot believe he actually stated that Kobe should get "star treatment". That is the kind of thing that really makes me lose respect for someone, even more than a wreckless elbow thrown that connects with force.

The last thing we need is coaches openly lobbying for one player to get preferential calls over another. That's the wrong message for the league to be displaying (even though it's obvious that some players get the calls) and it something that NO ONE should mention in a manipulative way as Jackson has here. It's entirely the wrong message to send to young players of the sport as well. Just all around stupid, but then again I guess Phil cares more about winning than the league as a whole or the image he's broadcasting. :nope

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

01-31-2007, 06:50 AM

oh, and i'm bored, it's early in the morning, and i'm procrastinating...otherwise i could care less as long as the games on tonight are good! :)
I' was wondering. WTF do you care what I say? I don't need this.

I'm glad the Spurs got some good national airplay this month. with good teams nonetheless...I wasn't aware of the schedule. I was surprised and stoked.
Yet they were mostly losses!

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

01-31-2007, 06:53 AM

Asked whether he complained to league officials that Bryant should be suspended, Popovich said, "I'll just keep my thoughts to myself."

Bwah hah hah. That's so hilarious. I wonder what Pop's really thinking.

:lol yeah,
When I read that

I thought, Pop's a fraud too!

To me, the biggest a-hole in the entire situation is Phil. I cannot believe he actually stated that Kobe should get "star treatment". That is the kind of thing that really makes me lose respect for someone, even more than a wreckless elbow thrown that connects with force. I think it's about time for him to retire, because his act is getting really old.
Yeah, Phil's such an ass. What's wrong with him? I never really get why he comes off so badly in his comments. It's like he's blind to his own statements.

ponky

01-31-2007, 06:53 AM

Well, I was more focused on Kobe's forearm antics. He popped Dirk if you don't remember with his "unnatura"l forearm motions. I guess it just varies on how you sell the call. Manu's flopping was usually just annoying (if you're the opposing team). Obviously Kobe's "fraudalent" antics weren't anything special, he's one of dozens of players who wise up on how to sell a foul. He just happened to have Manu's head at the wrong place at the wrong time. Sucks for him. And the Lakers. But the players will adjust. Manu did. Mostly because of the equal chances of causing injury to himself.

Yeah I remember that pop on Dirk but whatever, shit happens. Manu's flopping usually is just annoying but it has resulted in unnecessary injury as well, Barbosa and like you said, it's bad for Manu as well. I don't agree with the suspension but I hope it does lessen all the flailing, I hate it, even when Dirk does it. For me, it's about past my bedtime, I'm usually in bed by 5 AM! Have a great day!

Cry Havoc

01-31-2007, 07:03 AM

Yeah, Phil's such an ass. What's wrong with him? I never really get why he comes off so badly in his comments. It's like he's blind to his own statements.

Doubt he cares. He's used to bullying officials around. He's used to having his players unequivocally ge the benefit of nearly every call. Shaq and Jordan -- two players who would probably each be in the top 5 in NBA history for favorable officiating in their careers. Phil is probably shocked that Kobe doesn't get -as many-, although he still gets a few here and there.

Phil strikes me as the type of coach who's almost in a bubble. He's focused on his team and convinced he's just going to do and say whatever he wants and people will back down.

I'd like to see the league slap a nice 6 digit fine on him, shut him up a bit. If that doesn't calm him down, toss him for a couple games. The league really doesn't need his mind games, especially after the Finals last year.

RonMexico

01-31-2007, 07:05 AM

Can't sleep - back to msg board for some tidbits.

Thoughts: #1 - Kobe getting suspended might be in line with this possible league policy of penalizing floppers. That was a perfectly-timed and extremely clean block and Kobe's flail was just part of the degenerative nature of rewarding players for flailing antics in recent years (D-Wade, Dirk, Kobe, Manu included). I have to think that this suspension was probably to send a message because of the severity of the hit. Stu Jackson hit it on the head when he called it an "unnatural act" because it is not part of the normal shooting motion for a player to jacknife his body like that and throw his arm horizontally.

#2 - Phil Jackson needs to stop with this "world is against us" routine out there. Pop is probably the opposing coach in the league I have the most respect for (it could be me or him, but I feel his personality has changed a lot since 2002 - he seems to scream less on the sidelines and he's adopted the casual shirt with sport coat wardrobe), but I just can't stand Phil's aloof and holier-than-thou attitude anymore. I loved how Jack McCallum described him as having a chair that is higher than the rest of the bench "officially because of his hip problems, but most likely because he feels he deserves to sit higher like a king on this throne." His quote: "a non-basketball player probably made this decision" is just asinine.

picnroll

01-31-2007, 07:57 AM

I think we can lay to rest the theory floated by many that Bryant was simply fishing for a foul. Even Ginobili who virtually never calls out an opponent, Melo, Artest, etc. was basically saying that that forearm went way beyond a flail for contact. Anyone who watched the replay with two eyes open could see that. No way you throw a forearm down hard and way to the back and expect to be getting a call. Kobe was pissed and react instinctively to get even. Competitivenes gone wild.

timvp

01-31-2007, 08:41 AM

whottt

01-31-2007, 09:28 AM

There's no doubt that Manu took a wicked elbow, but I just don't see that Kobe was intentionally trying to hit Manu in the face...and he did show concern once he saw Manu on the ground.

ArgSpursFan

01-31-2007, 09:35 AM

So you think Kobe got mad that his shot was blocked and punched Manu in the face?

:dizzy

It's clear as day to me that Kobe was trying to draw the foul.

I think he got mad.I don´t think he tried to hurt him,but it was still a faul.

King

01-31-2007, 09:36 AM

If you guys could pass on the trick behind playing in slow motion, I'd love to hear it. Because everyone in the NBA plays in real time. And I don't think that Kobe had the thought process of 'turning to punch Manu in the face to get even' or 'maybe if I punch him, I'll knock the ball loose and get another chance at a shot' all before he landed a jump.

And it's hilarious to me that people say that Kobe was intentionally trying to hurt Manu on a play that looked anything but intentional - but argue to the death that Bruce is just playing tough defense when he goes underneath a player in the air.

picnroll

01-31-2007, 09:36 AM

So you think Kobe got mad that his shot was blocked and punched Manu in the face?

:dizzy

It's clear as day to me that Kobe was trying to draw the foul.
You and not Pop, Manu, Stu Jackson. I never saw somebody fising for a foul by hammering a forearm 45 degrees back and down. He got pissed that it was blocked and reacted in anger. You never saw that happen on the court.

:dizzy

picnroll

01-31-2007, 09:38 AM

Kori Ellis

01-31-2007, 09:39 AM

You and not Pop, Manu, Stu Jackson. I never saw somebody fising for a foul by hammering a forearm 45 degrees back and down. He got pissed that it was blocked and reacted in anger. You never saw that happen on the court.

:dizzy

"It's probably just a natural movement for a shooter coming down," Popovich said. "I doubt Kobe would do that. That's not his style."

whottt

01-31-2007, 09:39 AM

The comments about Artest not apologizing are funny...Manu knocked the living shit out of Artest, and Artest was clearly retaliating. :lmao @ Ron didn't apologize.

King

01-31-2007, 09:41 AM

There's a youtube replay on LG that has it in slow motion for the visula impaired (timvp).

I understand how to watch a video that's been slowed down. But, a lot of you are thinking there was some grand malicious thought process that went behind Kobe's hitting Manu. When the point from where the shot is blocked to when Manu is hit actually probably took less than a half second.

boutons_

01-31-2007, 09:42 AM

Kobe most often after a shot like to pose and preen and taunt with his arm in the air.

It was a pressured shot, he wasn't really squared up and balanced. I can't see how the violence of his arm swing was only a reflex to regain his balance. I'm sure he knew whoever had blocked his shot was right next to/behind him.

"unnatural" was a good term

but "draw a foul" doesn't fit.

I'm going with malice :) Suspension deserved.

Kobe blew his only appearance to showboat in MSG this season.

.

picnroll

01-31-2007, 09:44 AM

"It's probably just a natural movement for a shooter coming down," Popovich said. "I doubt Kobe would do that. That's not his style."

Ludden
Popovich initially said after Sunday's game he thought Bryant's action was a "natural movement for a shooter coming down." But that was before he saw a replay of the incident.
Seems pretty clear to me along with Manu's statement of the three things he knew. Pretty clear Manu isn't giving Kobe a pass after seeing the replay.

Kori Ellis

01-31-2007, 09:44 AM

Kori Ellis

01-31-2007, 09:46 AM

Ludden
Popovich initially said after Sunday's game he thought Bryant's action was a "natural movement for a shooter coming down." But that was before he saw a replay of the incident.
Seems pretty clear to me along with Manu's statement of the three things he knew. Pretty clear Manu isn't giving Kobe a pass after seeing the replay.

It was reported yesterday that when the league called Manu, he said he thought the play was an accident and that Kobe shouldn't be suspended. *shrug*

picnroll

01-31-2007, 09:48 AM

Bottomline is that they are trying to cut down on two things .. flailing/flopping and shots to the head.

This was both.

Now let's see what happens when the next person is hit above the shoulders or hit hard elsewhere on a flop/flail.

If they call it consistently, I have no problem with it.

But I doubt they will.
I think the key is "unnatural act". To me they're implying it was intentional and intentional with more than just fishing for a foul intent. I doubt your average Dirk flail for a foul, even if it makes contact with a head, will draw a suspension. Evwen the one that Laker fans have bitched about where Manu hit Artest was a natural running, arm pumping motion. A strangely thrown elbow/forearm to a guy standing behind you will.

Kori Ellis

01-31-2007, 09:52 AM

I doubt you average Dirk flail for a foul, even if it makes contact with a head, will draw a suspension.

If it's an elbow that's hits above the shoulders, it's supposed to be an automatic ejection.

According to recent articles, they don't consider flailing and flopping a "natural act" either. They are trying to cut back on it.

picnroll

01-31-2007, 09:58 AM

If it's an elbow that's hits above the shoulders, it's supposed to be an automatic ejection.

According to recent articles, they don't consider flailing and flopping a "natural act" either. They are trying to cut back on it.
Cool. Thre goes the Mavs playoff chances.

whottt

01-31-2007, 10:00 AM

Shit, it's a good thing Manu never flops or uses his elbows to clear space...otherwise I could see this rule having a signifigant impact on the Spurs.

picnroll

01-31-2007, 10:02 AM

Actually in case you hadn't noticed Manu's been flopping and flailing a lot less of late.

whottt

01-31-2007, 10:06 AM

Compared to who?

picnroll

01-31-2007, 10:09 AM

Dirk

Sportcamper

01-31-2007, 10:16 AM

ArgSpursFan

01-31-2007, 10:39 AM

Is it true that the Motion Picture Academy is creating a new category for performance in flopping in honor of Manu Ginobili... :dramaquee
http://www.kodak.com/US/images/en/corp/kodakHistory/academyAward.jpg

I admit manu sometimes is a good actor,by pretending being fauled and stuff.but last sunday there was NO ACTING.
by the way he has a BLACK EYE!

whottt

01-31-2007, 10:56 AM

I don't think he was saying Manu was flopping on that play...it's just tht pic seems to think the Spurs are completely devoid of players who flop and flail...it's ironic because Manu is probably the best player in the NBA at doing those things...I mean that in a complimentary way, it doesn't bother me that he does it because it's part of the game....but he does do it as much or more than any player in the league.

And he also catches guys in the face with elbows as much as any "offensive" player in the league.

That's why some of us are freaking out over the sudden enforcement of this rule, I just don't see how calling this is going to help the Spurs,...I see it hurting the Spurs quite a bit.

And there is no way in hell this going to help Manu be more effective.

angel_luv

01-31-2007, 11:02 AM

Surely I can't be the first to quote this...

Bryant also lost about $162,000 in pay.

"Am I getting anything?" Ginobili asked with a laugh. "If I could get 25 percent, I'd take it."

:lol

MannyIsGod

01-31-2007, 11:03 AM

I have a new theory after watching replays. When you hold someone back, and then release, they may flail forward in a really weird way because the force in their arm is being held back then suddenly released with little to no resistance.

Anyhow, it seems that when Manu blocked Kobe's shot the ball was still in hand. So when the ball finally came out, Kobe's arm flailed in a crazy manner and thats why it:

1) looked fast
2) was in a really weird angle.

It doesn't make sense to me that his arm would move much faster after the block and if he was putting a lot of force into it his arm could fly back in a crazy angle.

So I actually now believe he was neither trying to draw a foul nor did he do it on purpose.

angel_luv

01-31-2007, 11:12 AM

"I don't have anything against him," Ginobili said. "I respect him a lot. I was kind of surprised (at the force of the blow) when I saw the tape

Respect what? That Kobe can make hard shots? :angel :lol

After looking at replays, Ginobili also didn't think Bryant was making a normal follow-through motion after his shot.

angel_luv

01-31-2007, 11:13 AM

So I actually now believe he was neither trying to draw a foul nor did he do it on purpose.

:dizzy

Exhibit Kobe the Klutz theory?

cheguevara

01-31-2007, 11:16 AM

are u kidding me? look at the play clearly. It was partly Kobe trying to draw a foul and partly a violent move to say "get off me!!" he did not intend to break manu's nose but he also didn't consider the fact that Manu could get hurt by this wack.

Suspension is being a little strict. But check again, this is Stern's NBA.

Cherry

01-31-2007, 11:18 AM

Is it true that the Motion Picture Academy is creating a new category for performance in flopping in honor of Manu Ginobili... :dramaquee

and all that blood and black make up was false, right? :sucker :dramaquee

Sportcamper

01-31-2007, 11:21 AM

Honestly I don’t get it...Manu Ginobili is a huge professional athlete...He is in tremendous shape...He takes a little swipe & he drops like he took a slug from an elephant gun... :dramaquee

cheguevara

01-31-2007, 11:23 AM

Honestly I don’t get it...Manu Ginobili is a huge professional athlete...He is in tremendous shape...He takes a little swipe & he drops like he took a slug from an elephant gun... :dramaquee

you have reached uncharted levels of stupidity.

Just be thankful Kobe's wack was inches away from manu's nose or bitchass Kobe would have been suspended for longer.

RonMexico

01-31-2007, 11:28 AM

Actually, that was consistent with Kobe's general "trying to draw foul" motion that I have seen for years in the Pacific division and playoffs. So, perhaps, to him and Phil, it's a "natural" motion since they've become so used to it. Everyone is acting like he wouldn't be trying to draw a foul? What? That's obviously what he was doing... nothing more (malicious inent) and nothing less (standard shooting motion or trying to catch his balance). If you see, he doesn't just flail his arm, he moves his legs as well, so it has nothing to do with catching his balance.

Higher paid people that have played and enforced the rules in basketball for many years made this decision for suspension and I support it. It covers many aspects they're trying to rid in the league: aka, star treatment, flopping, and hits above the head. I think at the least they're trying to deter other people from making wild gesticulations in the final seconds to try and draw a foul on a CLEAN block.

Cherry

01-31-2007, 11:33 AM

Honestly I don’t get it...Manu Ginobili is a huge professional athlete...He is in tremendous shape...He takes a little swipe & he drops like he took a slug from an elephant gun... :dramaquee

Sportcamper, Manu did that all his life, he´s clever as many other players in this league and Europe. It´s about stay in the right place at the right time.
Just watch some Euroleague games and you will see.

RonMexico

01-31-2007, 11:34 AM

Honestly I don’t get it...Manu Ginobili is a huge professional athlete...He is in tremendous shape...He takes a little swipe & he drops like he took a slug from an elephant gun... :dramaquee

Honestly, I don't get it... Kobe Bryant is a huge professional athlete... He is in tremendous shape... He has incredible balance and body control, and yet people are trying to claim "he was off-balance" because the block "affected his normal shot motion" or some other hair-brained explanation. He's at the peak of his jump, the ball is already in the air, he was not affected for the numerous seconds the ball was in the air, he made a conscious decision to throw his arm.

I don't think he had any idea he was going to hit Manu or intended to hurt him and it probably helps his case a lot that he was apologetic. But, the fact remains that we've seen Karl Malone intentionally knock D-Rob out (and D-Rob still got called for the foul), and we all know Kobe would have had the "I just got fouled" scowl on while Manu was on the ground.

Sportcamper

01-31-2007, 11:35 AM

They don’t call it the Manu Flop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKMv9LrgF6M) for nothing...The guy is a great actor... :dramaquee

Cherry

01-31-2007, 11:47 AM

They don’t call it the Manu Flop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKMv9LrgF6M) for nothing...The guy is a great actor... :dramaquee

That´s old.

Sportcamper, Manu did that all his life, he´s clever as many other players in this league and Europe. It´s about stay in the right place at the right time... that´s not easy. Ask George Karl.

Just be thankful Kobe's not suspended for 10 games so, get over it.

TDMVPDPOY

01-31-2007, 11:54 AM

guess whose on the end of the line of that phone that stern calls tooo.....CIA fuckn popabiatch come get some

Sportcamper

01-31-2007, 11:58 AM

Extra Stout

01-31-2007, 12:12 PM

They don’t call it the Manu Flop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKMv9LrgF6M) for nothing...The guy is a great actor... :dramaquee
His ability to make his own nose bleed on cue is especially impressive.

ploto

01-31-2007, 12:17 PM

If it merited a suspension, why wasn't he assessed a flagrant foul, too?

cheguevara

01-31-2007, 12:35 PM

I thought at one time that Manu would be one of the NBA’s rising stars...But like many long time NBA fans, I just can’t stand to watch him...

Every time Manu has the ball, he drives recklessly to the basket, tucks the ball in his left hand like a football, and then when he gets close, he flails around crazily to try & get a foul call.... This seriously takes no skill what-so-ever....On defense he falls over when the ball handler drives past him without making any contact...

Instead of penalizing true NBA Super Stars like Kobe Bryant...The NBA needs to rid themselves of the Manu Ginobili’s and implement a technical flop foul...

I thought at one time Kobe was gonna be a superstar at least equivalent to Jordan. But like many long time NBA fans, I can't stand to watch him win....

He is a conceited, selfish, pile of shit of a person.

The league will be a better league once Kobe's selfish bitch ass is gone.

FromWayDowntown

01-31-2007, 12:38 PM

His ability to make his own nose bleed on cue is especially impressive.

And giving himself that black eye just shows his commitment to his art.

alamo50

01-31-2007, 12:46 PM

Kobe just keeps confirming what a bastard he is.

:madrun

Cherry

01-31-2007, 12:50 PM

I thought at one time that Manu would be one of the NBA’s rising stars...But like many long time NBA fans, I just can’t stand to watch him...

Just because he can take over a game from nowere? :eyebrows I wonder how many coaches want a player like him. :)

Every time Manu has the ball, he drives recklessly to the basket, tucks the ball in his left hand like a football, and then when he gets close, he flails around crazily to try & get a foul call.... This seriously takes no skill what-so-ever....On defense he falls over when the ball handler drives past him without making any contact...

Please stop crying :lmao :cry :baby

Instead of penalizing true NBA Super Stars like Kobe Bryant...The NBA needs to rid themselves of the Manu Ginobili’s and implement a technical flop foul...

Don't blame Manu for draw fouls. Players are taught to do it. Get over it.

cheguevara

01-31-2007, 12:51 PM

It's hard to beleive it but these Laker fans are more bitchy than Mav fans.

FromWayDowntown

01-31-2007, 12:53 PM

Instead of penalizing true NBA Super Stars like Kobe Bryant...The NBA needs to rid themselves of the Manu Ginobili’s and implement a technical flop foul...

So let me get this straight -- a guy who flails his arms around in an effort to fool officials into calling a foul that never occurred should be respected for having done so, but a guy who embellishes the contact that he actually takes is somehow a blight on the league?

Gotcha.

FromWayDowntown

01-31-2007, 12:58 PM

I have to say that the thing about the Kobe situation that is most striking to me is how casually everyone is dealing with the admission that Kobe was trying to draw a foul in that situation. Certainly players do try to draw fouls that don't actually occur, but the notion that such an effort is somehow so run-of-the-mill as to be unremarkable strikes me as really odd. The league has allowed this to occur, to an extent, by rewarding players who are clever enough to fool officials into making calls. But the fact so many are up in arms that a guy is now made to pay a penalty resulting from the consequences of his efforts to fool the game officials is just bizzare, as is the argument that Kobe should somehow be treated differently in the context of the game because he's Kobe Bryant.

Extra Stout

01-31-2007, 01:09 PM

the argument that Kobe should somehow be treated differently in the context of the game because he's Kobe Bryant.

And the New York CEO replies, "I'm paying for these seats to see Kobe Bryant and LeBron James, not to see some foreigner who should be cutting my lawn."

FromWayDowntown

01-31-2007, 01:20 PM

And the New York CEO replies, "I'm paying for these seats to see Kobe Bryant and LeBron James, not to see some foreigner who should be cutting my lawn."

So he should be able to complain if Kobe acts in a way that a "lesser" player might act, is T'd up twice in the first quarter and ejected 5 minutes in? Or should officials allow Kobe to do whatever he wishes without fear of ejection, because the New York CEO replies "I'm paying for these seats to see Kobe Bryant and Lebron James, not to see some foreigner who should be cutting my lawn."

I understand your point, I just don't necessarily understand the argument. If Kobe Bryant is ill or injured, or at home because someone in his family is ill or injured, or is not playing because he mouthed off to his coach or because he socked another player in the nose, the result is the same. That's a chance that every ticket buyer takes -- if you pay to see a particular player, any number of circumstances might deprive you of your wish. Certainly, in this case, the league had control over whether Kobe played or not, but saying that it should kowtow to the wishes of New York CEO's who want to see Kobe play strikes me as an untenable choice -- if Kobe's behavior was sufficient to warrant suspension, then when do you suspend him? Is it fair to say that New York CEO's paid to see Kobe and should get that chance, while the family in Milwaukee who could only afford to go to one game and chose to try to see Kobe should be shafted?

And if this wasn't enough to warrant a suspension, then where do you draw that line? Do you let Kobe Bryant get away with more on the suspendability scale simply because he's Kobe Bryant? If it's Vladimir Radmanovic who strikes Ginobili in that way, does he warrant a suspension for that act because he's not Kobe Bryant?

Cry Havoc

01-31-2007, 01:38 PM

So you think Kobe got mad that his shot was blocked and punched Manu in the face?

:dizzy

It's clear as day to me that Kobe was trying to draw the foul.

I seriously doubt Kobe was trying to draw a foul by flinging his arm back. I've watched the replay several times. If you'll notice, the ball is blocked straight up into the air. Kobe actually -catches- the blocked shot and shoots again. Flinging his arm back looks like a clear-cut way to box out Manu so he can get another shot off.

I doubt he intentionally hit Manu in the head (or he's got reaaaaaaaally good aim for someone he can't see), but I think he knew time was almost up and he could probably get away with a rough seal of the defender. So he tried to clear Manu with his elbow and get back to the ball, which he succeeded in both. Wrecklessly.

If Kobe was really headhunting, I doubt his focus would have been on catching the ball before it landed and shooting again. Most likely he would have just slammed Manu down and then walked off the court. His focus wasn't on delivering the blow, though. It was on getting another shot off.

smdanss

01-31-2007, 01:40 PM

Apparently he also called him Monday morning as well, but whatever, idiots feel better if they can call Kobe a "thug," whatever that means.
I would like to see what's your post next time Nowis' face hit by Artest or so. :downspin: :downspin: :downspin:

Extra Stout

01-31-2007, 02:54 PM

Certainly, in this case, the league had control over whether Kobe played or not, but saying that it should kowtow to the wishes of New York CEO's who want to see Kobe play strikes me as an untenable choice -- if Kobe's behavior was sufficient to warrant suspension, then when do you suspend him? Is it fair to say that New York CEO's paid to see Kobe and should get that chance, while the family in Milwaukee who could only afford to go to one game and chose to try to see Kobe should be shafted?
What the league should do is enforce its own rules, regardless of whom they're enforcing them against. Since they have decided to crack down on wild flailing meant to draw a foul, which instead ends up whacking somebody upside the head, it should be enforced the same whether it is Kobe Bryant or Beno Udrih.

But if you want to know why New York sports columnists are publishing articles that say there should be special treatment for Kobe Bryant because he is Kobe Bryant, it is because last night the New York high rollers were pissed. They wanted to see Kobe Bryant. In their eyes, the world does not revolve around disciplinary consistency in the NBA, or around working families in Milwaukee; it revolves around them, and when they don't get what they want, they react in a fashion not unlike a two-year-old.

And because the NBA offices are in New York, David Stern and Stu Jackson catch heat for it, and because these people have a lot of money and power, the NBA genuflects.

So while probably it makes no difference what input Popovich or anybody else makes to the NBA office, the Spurs make a convenient scapegoat.

FromWayDowntown

01-31-2007, 02:58 PM

What the league should do is enforce its own rules, regardless of whom they're enforcing them against. Since they have decided to crack down on wild flailing meant to draw a foul, which instead ends up whacking somebody upside the head, it should be enforced the same whether it is Kobe Bryant or Beno Udrih.

But if you want to know why New York sports columnists are publishing articles that say there should be special treatment for Kobe Bryant because he is Kobe Bryant, it is because last night the New York high rollers were pissed. They wanted to see Kobe Bryant. In their eyes, the world does not revolve around disciplinary consistency in the NBA, or around working families in Milwaukee; it revolves around them, and when they don't get what they want, they react in a fashion not unlike a two-year-old.

And because the NBA offices are in New York, David Stern and Stu Jackson catch heat for it, and because these people have a lot of money and power, the NBA genuflects.

So while probably it makes no difference what input Popovich or anybody else makes to the NBA office, the Spurs make a convenient scapegoat.

Oh, like I say, I KNOW all of that. I guess my posts are meant to wonder aloud and, perhaps, spark some discussion about the whys of that.

I'm well aware that not all fans are equal and players are treated differently based on the fans' expectations -- for instance, Eddie F. Rush's direct question to a scorekeeper one night about how many fouls Shaq had.