WTC Steel Beams Found

[Nbadan]

What a unique opportunity...


http://www.hostgrok.com/media/wtc7_collapse_sm.gif
Let them be from WTC7...let them be from WTC7....Let them...


Large steel columns from the fallen twin towers have been found beneath a service road being excavated at ground zero in the search for long-buried Sept. 11 remains, officials said Wednesday.

The surprising discovery of World Trade Center steel in the past week raises more questions about what was left at ground zero in the cleanup after the 2001 attacks and how the service road was created in the first place.

The steel, found during a dig for human remains that has yielded nearly 300 bones in the past three months, includes two heavy beams that were stacked horizontally in the landfill, as if moved and placed there, a person with direct knowledge of the discovery told The Associated Press. The person was not authorized to publicly discuss the findings and insisted on anonymity.

The discovery was confirmed by officials for the city and Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owned the trade center.

NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Attacks-Remains.html)

smoking gun?

[1369]

http://www.linenoiz.com/pics/funny/its_a_conspiracy.jpg

[mookie2001]

building 7 is the only steel structure to be destroyed by fire in the history of the world

[mookie2001]

http://www.linenoiz.com/pics/funny/its_a_conspiracy.jpgfear

[gtownspur]

fdr had foreknowledge of pearl harbor


Blah blah Blah, neocon blah blah blah freedom ha ha.

[mookie2001]

tell us about building 7 gtown

[FromWayDowntown]

I can't believe that Dan is actually hoping that this might smoke out a conspiracy.

I don't like this administration, but I'd prefer to remain optimistic that my government isn't inclined to hasten my death.

[braeden0613]

I can't believe that Dan is actually hoping that this might smoke out a conspiracy.

I don't like this administration, but I'd prefer to remain optimistic that my government isn't inclined to hasten my death.
I think he just wants to find the truth. The way this admin wants things, we should hide in fear and put our trust in the government b/c of the almighty terrorist threat.

[01Snake]

You honestly think the government could have actually had a hand in bringing down a WTC building and nobody would have found out about it? Gimme a fucking break. They couldn't even keep the actions at Abu Ghraib a secret.

[mookie2001]

explain then

[leemajors]

You honestly think the government could have actually had a hand in bringing down a WTC building and nobody would have found out about it? Gimme a fucking break. They couldn't even keep the actions at Abu Ghraib a secret.

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/WrestlingCentral/Pin-XFileTruth_001.jpg

[Nbadan]

I can't believe that Dan is actually hoping that this might smoke out a conspiracy.

I don't like this administration, but I'd prefer to remain optimistic that my government isn't inclined to hasten my death.

I really hope not, but I think the key to proving the truth lies in building 7. Beams from that building would be gold.

[sabar]

This administration has failed at covering up anything and everything.
How could the biggest (assumed) conspiracy slip through the gaps.

[johnsmith]

Dan has the biggest Clue right now.

I think he's going to shoot clue goo all over the place.

[braeden0613]

You honestly think the government could have actually had a hand in bringing down a WTC building and nobody would have found out about it? Gimme a fucking break. They couldn't even keep the actions at Abu Ghraib a secret.
I dont think its that hard...the government has many secrets.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i blame this on rasho

[Lebowski Brickowski]

This administration has failed at covering up anything and everything.
How could the biggest (assumed) conspiracy slip through the gaps.

There are scientific polls that show at least 2/3rds of americans do not beleive the "official" 9-11 explanation. There is also a movement of citizens who are demanding the true story of 9-11. Not as many people as we think have swallowed the government pill whole. The jury of public opinion is still out. We just don't hear about that side of it on FOXCNNABCBS20/2060MIN.COM.GOV.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

But anyway, steel beams from WTC#7, it'd be interesting to see what those things went through before the collapse. I wonder whose scientists will analyze these.

[johnsmith]

There are scientific polls that show at least 2/3rds of americans do not beleive the "official" 9-11 explanation. There is also a movement of citizens who are demanding the true story of 9-11. Not as many people as we think have swallowed the government pill whole. The jury of public opinion is still out. We just don't hear about that side of it on FOXCNNABCBS20/2060MIN.COM.GOV.


Link Please

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Zogby (http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855)

Another Poll:

Polling Data

When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?

Oct. 2006
May 2002

Telling the truth
16%
21%

Hiding something
53%
65%

Mostly lying
28%
8%

Not sure
3%
6%



Source: The New York Times / CBS News
Methodology: Telephone interviews with 983 American adults, conducted from Oct. 5 to Oct. 8, 2006. Margin of error is 4 per cent.

[johnsmith]

Zogby (http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855)

Another Poll:

Polling Data

When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?

Oct. 2006
May 2002

Telling the truth
16%
21%

Hiding something
53%
65%

Mostly lying
28%
8%

Not sure
3%
6%



Source: The New York Times / CBS News
Methodology: Telephone interviews with 983 American adults, conducted from Oct. 5 to Oct. 8, 2006. Margin of error is 4 per cent.


So this poll describes only 990 beliefs of New York residents. You said it was 2/3 of America.................so again, link please.





Oh, and on a side note, the link you gave states that the highest percentage of those that believe the government isn't telling us everything (not that it was a conspiracy, just that the government isn't telling us everything) was under the age of 30.

I myself am under the age of 30 and will attest to the fact that my generation will believe damn near the opposite of anything that anyone tells us. So go figure.


To quote SouthPark, "1/4 of Americans are retards".

[johnsmith]

south park :rolleyes


You obviously never saw the episode about 9/11 theories.


So :rolleyes right back at ya little fella.

[johnsmith]

what does that prove? that the writers of south park don't believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories?


It doesn't prove anything, nor did I try and use the quote as a way to prove or disprove anything.

So easy there little buckaroo.

[Oscar DeLa]

I don't know what it is but maybe yall sheep could actually explain Building 7 then

[johnsmith]

I don't know what it is but maybe yall sheep could actually explain Building 7 then


Did anyone actually go back and read the link to this article? It says nothing that would even begin to get someone to believe that it has anything to do with building 7.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

"* Numerical computations conservatively based on 2000 Census data citing 174 million Americans between the ages of 18 and 64.

Survey Methodology: Zogby America, 5/12/06 through 5/16/06

This is a telephone survey of adults nationwide conducted by Zogby International. The target sample is 1,200 interviews with approximately 81 questions asked. Samples are randomly drawn from telephone cd’s of national listed sample. Zogby International surveys employ sampling strategies in which selection probabilities are proportional to population size within area codes and exchanges. As many as six calls are made to reach a sampled phone number. Cooperation rates are calculated using one of AAPOR’s approved methodologies and are comparable to other professional public-opinion surveys conducted using similar sampling strategies. Weighting by region, party, age, race, religion, and gender is used to adjust for non-response. The margin of error is +/- 2.9 percentage points. Margins of error are higher in sub-groups.

Zogby International’s sampling and weighting procedures also have been validated through its political polling: more than 95% of the firm’s polls have come within 1% of actual election-day outcomes."

If you have an issue with the sampling, Zogby will be able to answer your questions better than I. Perhaps you can make some suggestions to assist them.

And on your sidenote -- I said not that there was a conspiracy but that there is a mistrust of the "official 9-11 story."

My impression of people under 30 (I just turned 30, I guess I don't count anymore) is the same as with the majority of Americans: that we will believe anything we see or hear without critical inquiry and wont ask serious questions as long as there's something more fun to do.

[johnsmith]

[QUOTE=Lebowski Brickowski]And on your sidenote -- I said not that there was a conspiracy but that there is a mistrust of the "official 9-11 story."

Fair enough


My impression of people under 30 (I just turned 30, I guess I don't count anymore) is the same as with the majority of Americans: that we will believe anything we see or hear and wont ask serious questions as long as there's something more fun to do.


You think? I think this generation is far more inclined to disagree with whatever is told to us. Just an opinion though.

[mookie2001]

Did anyone actually go back and read the link to this article? It says nothing that would even begin to get someone to believe that it has anything to do with building 7. nobody said it did buckauroooos, since you obviously dont believe a "conspiracy", just give us your story on how and why building 7 went down

[01Snake]

nobody said it did buckauroooos, since you obviously dont believe a "conspiracy", just give us your story on how and why building 7 went down

Just curious....what do you think brought Buildings 1 and 2 down?

[clambake]

Gravity?

[mookie2001]

planes, gravity, super thermites

[101A]

I don't know what it is but maybe yall sheep could actually explain Building 7 then

Popular Mechanics: (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5)




CLAIM: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."

FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom--approximately 10 stories--about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."

There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors--along with the building's unusual construction--were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.

[mookie2001]

-the streamers on either side were from its faulty construction?, are they dust or smoke?, or do they not exist...

[Phenomanul]

Refresh my memory NBAdan....

I don't recall WTC #7 being hit by a fully loaded plane... Or for that matter, any moment where its central steel-reinforced concrete column endured severe impact trauma of any kind. Impacts that would.... say.... knock off fire-protective insulation from the rest of the building's steel columns... Do you recall such events?

Sure, debris from the plane impacts combined with debris from the subsequent collapses of WTC #1 and #2 set off the fires that ravaged the building and created an unstable foundation for the entire WTC complex. That alone should outright explain the more gradual dynamics involved in the building's collapse. Why do people search for a more extreme explanation? I guess those people also fail to realize that the fire itself was never contained and burned until the eventual demise of the building. Some conspiracy argument.

[101A]

-the streamers on either side were from its faulty construction?, are they dust or smoke?, or do they not exist...


I don't know, but I have looked at many of the WTC 7 conspiracy sites; and they all talk about "Never before has fire brought down a modern skyscaper."

Great.

That's not what anybody is claiming, is it. Why don't those sights mention the fact that the official explanation is that building compromise, design AND fire, fueled by, apparently, quite a bit of diesel fuel brought down the building. I'll tell you why: because it doesn't sell books, or increase web traffic to actually respond to the ACTUAL facts. Strawmen, ultimately, are much easier to conspire around.

And, again, if THIS White House couldn't successfully leak a CIA operatives name, or plant any WMD's in a massive desert country; how, again, did they pull, and continue to pull THIS off?

[Spurminator]

Generation X-Files.

[1369]

Why do people search for a more extreme explanation?

Because, it just has to be Shrub's/NeoCon's/GOP's/Vast Right Wing Conspiracy's fault.

There is no other explanation acceptable.

[xrayzebra]

Old Bush is the smartest dummy in the world. As poffered here
on this thread. He is so damn dumb, he fooled the whole
congress into thinking Saddam has WMD, he brought down the
towers, caused global warming, boosted oil companies and oil
prices. Damn this man is so dumb, it hurts. Oh, and don't
forget Haliburton.

[Nbadan]

From Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories#Building_Seven)...(What's feeding the conspiracy theories)


Conspiracy theorists frequently emphasise the collapse of Seven World Trade Center in discussing the controlled demolition theory. They cite several reasons for this. First, they believe the collapse displayed especially clear features of a controlled demolition. Second, they say that since no plane hit the building, its collapse is even more difficult to explain than that of the two towers. Flaming debris did fall onto the building as a result of the collapse of the twin towers, but World Trade Center buildings 4, 5 and 6 remained standing despite also being severely damaged.[55] Third, researchers emphasise the style in which WTC7 collapsed: according to conspiracy theorists the collapse took 7 seconds, with constant acceleration close to gravitational.[56] (FEMA described the collapse sequence as lasting 37 seconds, basing this on seismic evidence and videos of the roof of the building;[57] 9/11 researchers analyse video footages that show only the sudden collapse of the outer walls and refer to similarity with typical controlled demolitions[58]) Fourth, in a PBS documentary on the collapse, Larry Silverstein, the owner of the building, said the fire department had decided to "pull it".[59] Although his spokesperson later said Silverstein meant that firefighters had decided to withdraw from the building and the surrounding area for their own safety,[60] many conspiracy theorists insist that "pull it" is technical slang in the demolition industry for demolish a building. (Whether or not this is what the phrase means has become a point of dispute.)[61] The official investigation into the collapse is still ongoing (a draft of the NIST report will be released in early 2007). NIST said they had to prioritize their investigations and chose to investigate the collapse of WTC buildings 1 and 2 first, and then building 7.[51] The fact that the building housed the offices of government agencies like the CIA,[62] the FBI, and the SEC, along with the City of New York's emergency command bunker has also fueled conspiracy theories.

Until the NIST reports comes out, I'll reserve further judgement...

[mookie2001]

if by pull it off you mean Millions of people think their story is bullshit, firemen, physicists, engineers, architects, high ranking government officials from around the world see right through it. The masses have lost their trust in bush and the administration








all i can say is watch the video 10 times- watch it a 100-not the little one dan had on page 1, google video, multiple angles and sources. believe what you want

[1369]

if by pull it off you mean Millions of people think their story is bullshit, firemen, physicists, engineers, architects, high ranking government officials from around the world see right through it.

Are there credible links to back up these claims?

[johnsmith]

Jesus Fucking Christ..........I can't believe how many people that I once thought of as intelligent on this site actually believe it was a conspiracy.

[johnsmith]

Are there credible links to back up these claims?




Fixed it for ya.

[mookie2001]

I'd post them if I had the time and links from the internets would change your mind about anything

[mookie2001]

the truth movement is large now, these arent the majority of americans who think Iraq had something to do with 9/11, theyre not the majority who have no fucking idea what building 7 is, its people who have done the research and IT DOESNT ADD UP IN ANY WAY. and it scares people

[johnsmith]

the truth movement is large now, these arent the majority of americans who think Iraq had something to do with 9/11, theyre not the majority who have no fucking idea what building 7 is, its people who have done the research and IT DOESNT ADD UP IN ANY WAY. and it scares people


What about the people that have done the research and IT DOES ADD UP IN EVERY WAY?


THis is absolutely amazing to me. Seriously, you seriously think the same government that has managed to screw up damn near everything for the past fourty years is responsible for this.


FUCK :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss

[1369]

I'd post them if I had the time and links from the internets would change your mind about anything

C'mon Mookie, I'm open to anything.

Hell, I was trained in the military to blow shit up and both WTC 1 and 2 "look" like they were shot.

But I also build things (heavy industrial construction) for a living, so I understand the relationship of dynamic and static loads within a structure that makes hypothesis like this http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf entirely rational and plausible.

[sabar]

I don't know what it is but maybe yall sheep could actually explain Building 7 then

And there's the problem and the source of all conspiracy theories. Armchair "scientists" pretending that they know what they are talking about. No one here knows what happened, all they can do is regurgitate what they have heard from a friend who heard from a friend who heard from a friends' friend and sounds good.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

I'm not sold on any conspiracy. But there are a lot of unanswered questions and the whitehouse and corp. media are absolutely unreliable and unwilling to fully and impartially investigate. The 9-11 Commission and report were jokes. Also from Wiki --

the White House was often cited as having attempted to block the release of information to the commission [8] and for refusing to give interviews without tight conditions attached (leading to threats to subpoena [9]). The Bush Administration has further been accused of attempting to derail the commission by giving it one of the smallest independent commission funding levels in recent history ($3 million [10]), and by giving the commission a very short deadline. The White House insists that they have given the commission "unprecedented cooperation".

While President Bush and Vice President Cheney did ultimately agree to testify, they did so only under several conditions:

They would be allowed to testify jointly;
They would not be required to take an oath before testifying;
The testimony would not be recorded electronically or transcribed, and that the only record would be notes taken by one of the commission staffers;
These notes would not be made public.
The commission agreed to these conditions, and the President and Vice President gave their testimony on April 29.

ALSO -- Terror committed or planned by govt/ against is own populous has a strong precedent. Operations AJAX, Northwoods, and Gladio being some.

The Gulf of Tonkin = a govt perpetrated attack on us military in order to fast-track US involvement in Vietnam.

In light of that stuff -- all I'm saying is that "conspiracy" might not be so easy to dismiss as absurd.

Plus -- GDubya is a complete ball of horse shit. That fact is indisputable. :lol

Oh Yeah -- Robert Gates (then CIA now Sec. D) installed Al-Qaeda in the 1980's as an "intelligence asset."

[johnsmith]

bush either: deliberately had these buildings blown up.just refused to prevent it. or he just plain dropped the ball.

whatever the explanation, he's culpable



I'm not sticking up for Bush on this one, so if it sounds that way, get over it. But personally, I think 9/11 occurs under any President in office at the time. Gore, Bush, Clinton, wouldn't have mattered, 9/11 would have happened.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Popular Mechanics: (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5)






ROFL

that popoular mechanics study was the hugest load of bull shit ever
they totally exposed that shit on the news show Democracy Now!

One of the scientists they used for steel analysis didnt even specialize in that shit

[johnsmith]

Please, please, please read this. I'll give the liberals a reason, it bashes Bush. I know it's long, but it's fucking hilarious, and right on point.


Published on Sunday, October 1, 2006 by Rolling Stone
I, Left Gatekeeper
Why the "9/11 Truth" movement makes the "Left Behind" sci-fi series read like Shakespeare

by Matt Tabbi


A few weeks ago I wrote a column on the anniversary of 9/11 that offhandedly dismissed 9/11 conspiracy theorists as "clinically insane." I expected a little bit of heat in response, but nothing could have prepared me for the deluge of fuck-you mail that I actually got. Apparently every third person in the United States thinks George Bush was behind the 9/11 attacks.

"You're just another MSM-whore left gatekeeper paid off by corporate America," said one writer. "What you do isn't journalism at all, you dick," said another. "You're the one who's clinically insane," barked a third, before educating me on the supposed anomalies of physics involved with the collapse of WTC-7.

I have two basic gripes with the 9/11 Truth movement. The first is that it gives supporters of Bush an excuse to dismiss critics of this administration. I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes. In fact, if there were any conspiracy here, I'd be far more inclined to believe that this whole movement was cooked up by Karl Rove as a kind of mass cyber-provocation, along the lines of Gordon Liddy hiring hippie peace protesters to piss in the lobbies of hotels where campaign reporters were staying.

Secondly, it's bad enough that people in this country think Tim LaHaye is a prophet and Sean Hannity is an objective newsman. But if large numbers of people in this country can swallow 9/11 conspiracy theory without puking, all hope is lost. Our best hope is that the Japanese take pity on us and allow us to serve as industrial slaves in their future empire, farming sushi rice and assembling robot toys.

I don't have the space here to address every single reason why 9/11 conspiracy theory is so shamefully stupid, so I'll have to be content with just one point: 9/11 Truth is the lowest form of conspiracy theory, because it doesn't offer an affirmative theory of the crime.

Forget for a minute all those Internet tales about inexplicable skyscraper fires, strange holes in the ground at Shanksville and mysterious flight manifestoes. What is the theory of the crime, according to the 9/11 Truth movement?

Strikingly, there is no obvious answer to that question, since for all the many articles about "Able Danger" and the witnesses who heard explosions at Ground Zero, there is not -- at least not that I could find -- a single document anywhere that lays out a single, concrete theory of what happened, who ordered what and when they ordered it, and why. There obviously is such a theory, but it has to be pieced together by implication, by paying attention to the various assertions of 9/11 lore (the towers were mined, the Pentagon was really hit by a cruise missile, etc.) and then assembling them later on into one single story. But the funny thing is, when you put together all of those disparate theories, you get the dumbest story since Roman Polanski's Pirates.

The specifics vary, but the basic gist of what They Say Happened goes something like this:

A group of power-hungry neocons, led by Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Bush and others and organizationally represented by groups like the Project for the New American Century, seeks to bring about a "Pearl-Harbor-like event" that would accelerate a rightist revolution, laying the political foundation for invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Your basic Reichstag fire scenario, logical enough so far. Except in this story, the Reichstag fire is an immensely complicated media hoax; the conspirators plot to topple the World Trade Center and pin a series of hijackings on a group of Sunni extremists with alleged ties to Al Qaeda. How do they topple the Trade Center? Well, they make use of NORAD's expertise in flying remote-control aircraft and actually fly two such remote-control aircraft into the Towers (in another version of the story, they conspire with Al Qaeda terrorists to actually hijack the planes), then pass the planes off as commercial jetliners in the media. But it isn't the plane crashes that topple the buildings, but bombs planted in the Towers that do the trick.

For good measure -- apparently to lend credence to the hijacking story -- they then fake another hijacking/crash in the Pentagon, where there actually is no plane crash at all but instead a hole created by a cruise missile attack, fired by a mysterious "white jet" that after the attack circles the White House for some time, inspiring the attention of Secret Service agents who point at it curiously from the ground (apparently these White House Secret Service agents were not in on the plot, although FBI agents on scene at Ground Zero and in Shanksville and elsewhere were).

Lastly, again apparently to lend weight to the whole hijacking cover story, they burn a big hole in the ground in Pennsylvania and claim that a jet went down there, crashed by a bunch of brave fictional civilians who fictionally storm the fictional plane cabin. The real-life wife of one of the fictional heroes, Lisa Beamer, then writes a convincingly self-serving paean/memoir to her dead husband, again lending tremendous verisimilitude to the hijacking story. These guys are good!

Just imagine how this planning session between Bush, Rummy and Cheney must have gone:

BUSH: So, what's the plan again?

CHENEY: Well, we need to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. So what we've decided to do is crash a whole bunch of remote-controlled planes into Wall Street and the Pentagon, say they're real hijacked commercial planes, and blame it on the towelheads; then we'll just blow up the buildings ourselves to make sure they actually fall down.

RUMSFELD: Right! And we'll make sure that some of the hijackers are agents of Saddam Hussein! That way we'll have no problem getting the public to buy the invasion.

CHENEY: No, Dick, we won't.

RUMSFELD: We won't?

CHENEY: No, that's too obvious. We'll make the hijackers Al Qaeda and then just imply a connection to Iraq.

RUMSFELD: But if we're just making up the whole thing, why not just put Saddam's fingerprints on the attack?

CHENEY: (sighing) It just has to be this way, Dick. Ups the ante, as it were. This way, we're not insulated if things go wrong in Iraq. Gives us incentive to get the invasion right the first time around.

BUSH: I'm a total idiot who can barely read, so I'll buy that. But I've got a question. Why do we need to crash planes into the Towers at all? Since everyone knows terrorists already tried to blow up that building complex from the ground up once, why don't we just blow it up like we plan to anyway, and blame the bombs on the terrorists?

RUMSFELD: Mr. President, you don't understand. It's much better to sneak into the buildings ourselves in the days before the attacks, plant the bombs and then make it look like it was exploding planes that brought the buildings down. That way, we involve more people in the plot, stand a much greater chance of being exposed and needlessly complicate everything!

CHENEY: Of course, just toppling the Twin Towers will never be enough. No one would give us the war mandate we need if we just blow up the Towers. Clearly, we also need to shoot a missile at a small corner of the Pentagon to create a mightily underpublicized additional symbol of international terrorism -- and then, obviously, we need to fake a plane crash in the middle of fucking nowhere in rural Pennsylvania.

RUMSFELD: Yeah, it goes without saying that the level of public outrage will not be sufficient without that crash in the middle of fucking nowhere.

CHENEY: And the Pentagon crash -- we'll have to do it in broad daylight and say it was a plane, even though it'll really be a cruise missile.

BUSH: Wait, why do we have to use a missile?

CHENEY: Because it's much easier to shoot a missile and say it was a plane. It's not easy to steer a real passenger plane into the Pentagon. Planes are hard to come by.

BUSH: But aren't we using two planes for the Twin Towers?

CHENEY: Mr. President, you're missing the point. With the Pentagon, we use a missile, and say it was a plane.

BUSH: Right, but I'm saying, why don't we just use a plane and say it was a plane? We'll be doing that with the Twin Towers, right?

CHENEY: Right, but in this case, we use a missile. (Throws hands up in frustration) Don, can you help me out here?

RUMSFELD: Mr. President, in Washington, we use a missile because it's sneakier that way. Using an actual plane would be too obvious, even though we'll be doing just that in New York.

BUSH: Oh, OK.

RUMSFELD: The other good thing about saying that it was a passenger jet is that that way, we have to invent a few hundred fictional victims and account for a nonexistent missing crew and plane. It's always better when you leave more cover story to invent, more legwork to do and more possible holes to investigate. Doubt, legwork and possible exposure -- you can't pull off any good conspiracy without them.

BUSH: You guys are brilliant! Because if there's one thing about Americans -- they won't let a president go to war without a damn good reason. How could we ever get the media, the corporate world and our military to endorse an invasion of a secular Iraqi state unless we faked an attack against New York at the hands of a bunch of Saudi religious radicals? Why, they'd never buy it. Look at how hard it was to get us into Vietnam, Iraq the last time, Kosovo?

CHENEY: Like pulling teeth!

RUMSFELD: Well, I'm sold on the idea. Let's call the Joint Chiefs, the FAA, the New York and Washington, D.C., fire departments, Rudy Giuliani, all three networks, the families of a thousand fictional airline victims, MI5, the FBI, FEMA, the NYPD, Larry Eagleburger, Osama bin Laden, Noam Chomsky and the fifty thousand other people we'll need to pull this off. There isn't a moment to lose!

BUSH: Don't forget to call all of those Wall Street hotshots who donated $100 million to our last campaign. They'll be thrilled to know that we'll be targeting them for execution as part of our thousand-tentacled modern-day bonehead Reichstag scheme! After all, if we're going to make martyrs -- why not make them out of our campaign paymasters? Shit, didn't the Merrill Lynch guys say they needed a refurbishing in their New York offices?

RUMSFELD: Oh, they'll get a refurbishing, all right. Just in time for the "Big Wedding"!

ALL THREE: (cackling) Mwah-hah-hah!

You get the idea. None of this stuff makes any sense at all. If you just need an excuse to assume authoritarian powers, why fake a plane crash in Shanksville? What the hell does that accomplish? If you're using bombs, why fake a hijacking, why use remote-control planes? If the entire government apparatus is in on the scam, then why bother going to all this murderous trouble at all -- only to go to war a year later with a country no one even bothered to falsely blame for the attacks? You won't see any of this explored in 9/11 Truth lore, because the "conspiracy" they're describing is impossible everywhere outside a Zucker brothers movie -- unbelievably stupid in its conception, pointlessly baroque and excessive in its particulars, but flawless in its execution, with no concrete evidence left behind and tens of thousands keeping their roles a secret forever.

We are to imagine that not one of Bush's zillions of murderous confederates would slip and leave real incriminating evidence anywhere along the way, forcing us to deduce this massive crime via things like the shaking of a documentary filmmaker's tripod before the Towers' collapse (aha, see that shaking -- it must have been a bomb planted by the president and his ten thousand allies!). Richard Nixon was a hundred times smarter than Bush, and he couldn't prevent leaks and cries of anguished pseudo-conscience from sprouting among a dozen intimately involved conspirators -- but under the 9/11 conspiracy theory, even the lowest FBI agent used to seal off the crime scene never squeaks. It's absurd.

I challenge a 9/11 Truth leader like Loose Change writer Dylan Avery to come up with a detailed, complete summary of the alleged plot -- not the bits and pieces, but the whole story, put together -- that would not make any fifth grader anywhere burst out in convulsive laughter. And without that, all the rest of it is bosh and bunkum, on the order of the "sonar evidence" proving the existence of the Loch Ness monster. If you can't put all of these alleged scientific impossibilities together into a story that makes sense, then all you're doing is jerking off -- and it's not like no one's ever done that on the Internet before.

Whenever anyone chooses to dismiss 9/11 conspiracy theorists, accusations fly; the Internet screams that you've aided and abetted George Bush. I disagree. To me, the 9/11 Truth movement is, itself, a classic example of the pathology of George Bush's America. Bush has presided over a country that has become hopelessly divided into insoluble, paranoid tribes, one of which happens to be Bush's own government. All of these tribes have things in common; they're insular movements that construct their own reality by cherry-picking the evidence they like from the vast information marketplace, violently disbelieve in the humanity of those outside their ranks, and lavishly praise their own movement mediocrities as great thinkers and achievers. There are as many Thomas Paines in the 9/11 Truth movement as there are Isaac Newtons among the Intelligent Design crowd.

There's not a whole lot of difference, psychologically, between Sean Hannity's followers believing liberals to be the same as terrorists, and 9/11 Truthers believing even the lowest soldier or rank-and-file FAA or NORAD official to be a cold-blooded mass murderer. In both cases you have to be far gone enough into your private world of silly tribal bullshit that the concept of "your fellow citizen" has ceased to have any meaning whatsoever. It may be that America has become too big and complicated for most people to deal with being part of. People are longing for a smaller, stupider reality. Some, like Bush, sell a prepackaged version. Others just make theirs up out of thin air. God help us.

Copyright © 2006 Rolling Stone


Priceless

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1001-24.htm

[PixelPusher]

^^Thanks for that. He captures the "logic" behind the theories perfectly.

btw, the next 9/11 conspiracy theorist I meet who has a degree in structural engineering will be the first.

[Nbadan]

humm....very amusing article, but remember that even Hitler was just the public face of the third reich, the real power, and planning, the money, the organization, lay somewhere else. Also, remember Nixon's and LBJ's rantings about the power behind the power? Scared the hell out of Nixon and drove LBJ back to Texas.

[smeagol]

The US has the remains of an alien battle ship and the man never set foot on the moon.

Ohh, and that alien autopsy of some years ago was totally real!

Morons . . .

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

^^Thanks for that. He captures the "logic" behind the theories perfectly.

btw, the next 9/11 conspiracy theorist I meet who has a degree in structural engineering will be the first.

Ding ding ding.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

humm....very amusing article, but remember that even Hitler was just the public face of the third reich, the real power, and planning, the money, the organization, lay somewhere else. Also, remember Nixon's and LBJ's rantings about the power behind the power? Scared the hell out of Nixon and drove LBJ back to Texas.

Drove LBJ back to Texas? :lol He was a weak president and Americans didn't like him. :lmao

[smeagol]

WHy are the conspiracy theorists always dudes with extreme left political views?

[mookie2001]

what is extreme left?, those who dont like democrats or republicans

[smeagol]

what is extreme left?, those who dont like democrats or republicans
No extreme left is Dan and boutons.

[mookie2001]

well I don't know their exact views on anything, I think like me they have major questions and see right through the biggest holes of the official story. I think they have also connected the dots on WHO HAS BENEFITED from 9/11 But yeah those who dont trust Bush or the government are more likely to NOT TRUST them.



why are evangelicals for war without end?

[Spurminator]

Man, I usually hate Rolling Stone's political takes, but that article was brilliant.

:lmao

[Extra Stout]

humm....very amusing article, but remember that even Hitler was just the public face of the third reich, the real power, and planning, the money, the organization, lay somewhere else. Also, remember Nixon's and LBJ's rantings about the power behind the power? Scared the hell out of Nixon and drove LBJ back to Texas.
:rolleyes

Dan is inscrutable. He'll always imply that the masterminds "lay elsewhere," but when you try to pin him down, he always blinks, with garbage like "do your own research" or "I can't say it here."

I don't know what kind of mental disorder causes this. One does not have to go completely insane just to be a skeptic of the powers that be.

[whottt]

what is extreme left?, those who dont like democrats or republicans


The extreme left is the extreme right...anarchists, racial and religious supremecists...etc. It's just like a big ole globe, you go far enough one direction and you wind up on the other side.

The KKK has a lot more in common with the Nation of Islam than it does with the Republican party(excluding the fact that the KKK was founded by a Democrat and the Democrats(and our good liberla friends the French) were the ones that fought against the abolition of slavery in the civil war....


Difference between the two parties, and why Bush got elected legit in 04, is there is almost no moderate base on the left anymore....it's further skewed than the right...in 04 the moderates went to the right.

Most Americans don't vote strict party affiliation, and those that do are stupid...

IF calling myself a Republican or a Democrat gurantees me someones vote, that someone is a dumbass.

Believing that one party is always right and the other is always wrong is an ultimate bigotry.

This is why the opinion of boutons on Republicans is about as valuable as a whore's opinion on...well never mind. IT is a whore's opinion.

[Extra Stout]

No extreme left is Dan and boutons.
boutons is not really extreme left, believe it or not. He just really really really really really really really hates the current President and the power structure of the Republicans. Politically, I liken him to the fire-breathing, but merely center-left blogger Duncan Black (aka Atrios), with maybe one-fifth the intelligence. (That sounds like an insult, but Black is really smart.)

Remember that boutons is extremely pro-Israel. I'd guess that he is a secular Jew, but you can't really tell from posts on the internets.

Dan does not really seem to have a well-developed belief structure. One day he will gush about Hugo Chavez and/or Fidel Castro and his marvelous ideas for the poor, then the next day he will lecture us about how Ronald Reagan had nothing to do with winning the Cold War, because after all Marxism is inherently inferior to capitalism as an economic system. He does this with no sense of irony. You can tell he is well-read, but it seems there is just one short-circuit up there in the gray matter that keeps him short of a coherent worldview.

[Extra Stout]

well I don't know their exact views on anything, I think like me they have major questions and see right through the biggest holes of the official story. I think they have also connected the dots on WHO HAS BENEFITED from 9/11 But yeah those who dont trust Bush or the government are more likely to NOT TRUST them.



why are evangelicals for war without end?
One of the reasons the rich who stay rich, stay rich, is because they are clever enough to leverage their assets so that just about any event benefits them, and because they are resourceful enough to know how to act toward their own benefit when something does happen.

There are people that benefitted from Hurricane Katrina as well, but I hope you don't believe that some conspiracy concocted a giant hurricane-maker.

[gtownspur]

well I don't know their exact views on anything, I think like me they have major questions and see right through the biggest holes of the official story. I think they have also connected the dots on WHO HAS BENEFITED from 9/11 But yeah those who dont trust Bush or the government are more likely to NOT TRUST them.



why are evangelicals for war without end?


If you don't know their views on anything, (since they post a zillion times here and every other post is either dan or buttons), how do you comprehend their talking points? Add to the fact that the rest of the paragraph leaves us to believe that you do know their motivations and views, since you just demonstrate that in there.


Mookie you either can't connect your own dots within yourself, or you're completely dishonest like your sis, Can't Be faded -de la Hoya-Lamarcus Bryant.

[Spurminator]

There are people that benefitted from Hurricane Katrina as well, but I hope you don't believe that some conspiracy concocted a giant hurricane-maker.

Levee bomb theory in 3... 2...

[mookie2001]

pretty original, nobody has ever joked that liberals think Bush starts Hurricaines, at least not in this forum

[gtownspur]

pretty original, nobody has ever joked that liberals think Bush starts Hurricaines, at least not in this forum

why not?

If bush can orchestrate 911 attacks to bring him into an unpopular war, and make him the worst aggie -marriot- conservative -ohio st.- linebacker president, rofl, rofl.

why can't he orchestrate hurricanes so that black people will die and thus brand him a gutless aggy,rofl rofl.

[whottt]

boutons is not really extreme left, believe it or not. He just really really really really really really really hates the current President and the power structure of the Republicans. Politically, I liken him to the fire-breathing, but merely center-left blogger Duncan Black (aka Atrios), with maybe one-fifth the intelligence. (That sounds like an insult, but Black is really smart.)

Remember that boutons is extremely pro-Israel. I'd guess that he is a secular Jew, but you can't really tell from posts on the internets..


Kinda right, but kinda giving boutons too much credit...boutons is a giant douchebag who has let his dislike of Bush destroy any objective political opinions he might have....he is a total subjective whore who is pretty much governened politically by his intense personal dislike of W rather than any rational or logical thought.

W has no bigger bitch than boutons.

Bush is extremely uncharmismatic and has an unlikeable demeanor, add to this his well known silver spoon upbringing, and there's just really not a whole lot to personally like about W....and quite a bit to despise when combined with his obviously public speaking struggles...

That doesn't mean he is the antichrist and that everything he has tried to do as PResident is wrong...boutons doesn't get it, lots don't...

That's why they allowed their visceral hatred of Bush to somehow misguide them into thinking they could run a "lose the war and world leadership position, and be proud of it" candidate in 04 and ended up pushing more votes onto Bush than he ever would have gotten had he merely been running on his own record.

I personally despise Bush, I nearly had a stroke when he became President in 2000...at the same time, I was able to separate my innate dislike of him from his basic intentions in 04 as well as take an objective view as to what IMO it would take to solve the problems in the middle east, and then I looked at what Kerry and the crats were doing.....yeap, Bush started looking pretty good.


IT's kinda like you know how dogs can sense fear? And it doesn't matter what kind of person you are if they are sensing that fear, the dog is going to react instinctively....

That's kinda the way boutons is with Bush...he just doesn't like Bush, it's an instinctive thing, animal instinct and he can't control it.

His political posts are not that of a person using sentient thought....merely instinct and it has destroyed his objectivity and turned him into a anti-repub whore and Bush's personal bitch.

That's my .02. There's no way you can reconcile bouton's various political opinions to any coherent or rational stance. Just a poor bastard incapable of using the higher thought and logic capabilities given to and available to many of us humans by evolution, when his emotional buttons are being pushed ;)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

One of the reasons the rich who stay rich, stay rich, is because they are clever enough to leverage their assets so that just about any event benefits them, and because they are resourceful enough to know how to act toward their own benefit when something does happen.

There are people that benefitted from Hurricane Katrina as well, but I hope you don't believe that some conspiracy concocted a giant hurricane-maker.

Yep, once you grow up and are successful in the business world, things start to click in a business sense, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to leverage your assets for a profit.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

pretty original, nobody has ever joked that liberals think Bush starts Hurricaines, at least not in this forum

Yeah, but there were a few claiming he had the military blow up the dikes...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

why not?

If bush can orchestrate 911 attacks to bring him into an unpopular war, and make him the worst aggie -marriot- conservative -ohio st.- linebacker president, rofl, rofl.

why can't he orchestrate hurricanes so that black people will die and thus brand him a gutless aggy,rofl rofl.

I'm not sure what your fascination is with branding Bush an 'aggy'. He's a 'horn through and through.

[gtownspur]

I'm not sure what your fascination is with branding Bush an 'aggy'. He's a 'horn through and through.


Sorry Aggie,

That post was just mocking Mooks and his sorority and their penchant for labeling anything beyond their comprehension as aggie.

[The Power Hour]

I am amazed at the lack of intelligent life in this forum. Just because I don't think the WTC steel buildings collapse on there own, does not mean I hate Bush, think there is a conspiracy, or wear tin foil caps on my head.

I am into facts. And any fool who actually thinks a plane load of people can crash into the pentagon and for them not find one drop of blood has to be the most ignorant of all species on earth.

[bresilhac]

nobody said it did buckauroooos, since you obviously dont believe a "conspiracy", just give us your story on how and why building 7 went down

Clearly to anyone with half a brain or to anyone that has actually seen a conrolled demolition take place that that is exactly what happened to WTC7 and most likely the main towers as well. The only reason that this story of a government sponsored plot has not surfaced on the MSM is because the MSM itself is complicit with the plot. How? Doesn't it seem peculiar that the MSM has managed to digup every secret the administration has attempted to coverup except this one? What I am saying is that contrary to what some believe, just because the MSM hasn't made a big deal about the pre-planned demolition of these towers doesn't mean that that isn't what happened.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_-_all_the_proof_you_need.html

[johnsmith]

I am amazed at the lack of intelligent life in this forum. Just because I don't think the WTC steel buildings collapse on there own, does not mean I hate Bush, think there is a conspiracy, or wear tin foil caps on my head.

I am into facts. And any fool who actually thinks a plane load of people can crash into the pentagon and for them not find one drop of blood has to be the most ignorant of all species on earth.



Clearly to anyone with half a brain or to anyone that has actually seen a conrolled demolition take place that that is exactly what happened to WTC7 and most likely the main towers as well. The only reason that this story of a government sponsored plot has not surfaced on the MSM is because the MSM itself is complicit with the plot. How? Doesn't it seem peculiar that the MSM has managed to digup every secret the administration has attempted to coverup except this one? What I am saying is that contrary to what some believe, just because the MSM hasn't made a big deal about the pre-planned demolition of these towers doesn't mean that that isn't what happened.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/9_11...f_you_need.html



I learned about "trolls" by responding to quotes very similar to this a few months ago.

[Spurminator]

Doesn't it seem peculiar that the MSM has managed to digup every secret the administration has attempted to coverup except this one?

If there's no secret to dig up, then, well, no.

You guys are funny.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

why not?

If bush can orchestrate 911 attacks to bring him into an unpopular war, and make him the worst aggie -marriot- conservative -ohio st.- linebacker president, rofl, rofl.

why can't he orchestrate hurricanes so that black people will die and thus brand him a gutless aggy,rofl rofl.


gtown you actually made me laugh on that one
props :smokin

[ChumpDumper]

Why would the "MSM" be complicit?

All of them?

When did they all get together and decide?

[Spurminator]

That's a lot of people complicit in the most evil plot in our nation's history... Can't believe a single person hasn't blown the whistle. They must be under some kind of brainwashing drug... or vaccine?

[101A]

ROFL

that popoular mechanics study was the hugest load of bull shit ever
they totally exposed that shit on the news show Democracy Now!

One of the scientists they used for steel analysis didnt even specialize in that shit


I watched that show. The two conspiracy nuts were complete Rubes, and were embarrassed.

PM Guy: "It's impossible to debate you, because if anybody makes a point you don't agree with, you simply call them a liar."

Conspiracy Nut: "No I don't, You're a Liar!"

ROFL

[Extra Stout]

The only reason that this story of a government sponsored plot has not surfaced on the MSM is because the MSM itself is complicit with the plot. How? Doesn't it seem peculiar that the MSM has managed to digup every secret the administration has attempted to coverup except this one? What I am saying is that contrary to what some believe, just because the MSM hasn't made a big deal about the pre-planned demolition of these towers doesn't mean that that isn't what happened.
That is awesome. The entire mainstream media, every reporter, every bureau, every network, every analyst, every editor in the entire world has managed to keep this secret , without one leak, contrary to everything else that has ever happened ever.

This shows that everything else that has ever occurred in history was part of the conspiracy, a pretext if you will, to fake us all out so that we wouldn't think that thousands upon thousands of people all could secretly meet together and coordinate the whole thing with no mistakes. The media is controlled by Jews, after all, and Jews are really good at conspiracies and keeping secrets. Them, and Freemasons too.

9/11 was a Big Oil-Jew-Mason plot to do something... which only the "real powers" that be know. All I know is that I don't trust the "official story," and that the "real people" behind it have some "real agenda." I am so freaking smart to have figured this out.

[01Snake]

Shhhh. Don't tell anyone, but I was in on it.

[Re-Animator]

I watched that show. The two conspiracy nuts were complete Rubes, and were embarrassed.
ROFL


I saw a show once were two Jesus freaks got their asses handed to them also, it didn't mean I stop going to church. Have you notice the media never puts the makers of Lose change or In plane sight on tv?

Why do they always have the tin foil cap wearing fools on TV? Why not the actual people who made the 9/11 documentaries?

I can't wait till some CIA or FBI agent on his death bed comes clean about what really happened at the Pentagon. Many of you in here may have to change your screen names just out of Embarrassment.

:wakeup

[101A]

I saw a show once were two Jesus freaks got their asses handed to them also, it didn't mean I stop going to church. Have you notice the media never puts the makers of Lose change or In plane sight on tv?

Why do they always have the tin foil cap wearing fools on TV? Why not the actual people who made the 9/11 documentaries?

I can't wait till some CIA or FBI agent on his death bed comes clean about what really happened at the Pentagon. Many of you in here may have to change your screen names just out of Embarrassment.

:wakeup


Um, the Rubes in question WERE the makers of Loose Change:

Transcript and link to Mp3 of "Debate" (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/11/1345203)

The PM guys simply undress them.

[Crookshanks]

You 9/11 conspiracy theorists are just too stupid to realize how stupid you really are!

You really believe that the man who many sincerely think is the dumbest President we've ever had is also one of the most evil and conniving leaders of all time? That he deliberately conspired with thousands of others to kill 3,000 people and cause BILLIONS of dollars of damage, not to mention the huge economic losses, just so he could start a war that has turned out to be immensely unpopular and caused the loss of life of thousands of innocent people - and for what? Just to get payback on Saddam for trying to kill his daddy? Or so that his buddies at Halliburton could make a fortune? :rolleyes

If you START with the premise that the Bush Administration was behind 9/11, then you can, almost assureadly, find some "evidence" to back up your claim. You can bend and twist the facts until they support your premise. However, true researchers start with a fact or an event and then seek out the whys and wherefores. :reading

I just have a really hard time fathoming the utter ignorance of you conspiracy theorists! This is you :madrun but, but, but I know this is what happened, don't try to tell me any different. And, don't tell me the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are just make believe; oh, and JFK and Elvis are living on an isolated tropical island with Marilyn Monroe! :p:

[clambake]

I refuse to buy any of those theories. My problem is with the handful of people in the WH that conspired to fabricate reasons for war. That collusive act is from a criminal tendency void of conscience. Equally disturbing is the people that still, to this day, support this behavior. I was hoping our country could learn from this, but I still hold out hope. As a country, our dignity is shot. Our actions have isolated us and made us the target for hate, which we have earned.

[Extra Stout]

The actual conspiracy is too easy to see, so the moonbats have to tie themselves into knots trying to see one that isn't there.

Islamic terrorists flew planes into buildings. The neoconservatives in power had been looking for a causus belli to justify an invasion of Iraq in order to change the power structure in the Middle East to a more West-friendly state, and this was about as close as they ever were going to get, inasmuch as both Saddam and the hijackers are Arabs, and a lot of Americans can't tell the difference, so they went with it.

That's it. There is plenty of backroom scheming, and intrigue, and lies, and shadowy power brokers in the real version.

[clambake]

Good point. You'd think at least one dipshit would have considered this situation in terms of it possibly biting them on the ass. It's like eager children that run to dive in the pool without checking for water.

[Nbadan]

Why would the "MSM" be complicit?

All of them?

When did they all get together and decide?

I don't think that the whole M$M is complicite, but it is interesting how little investigative reporting has been done by the M$M on the 19 hijackers, especially their time here in the U.S., and I guess that is what is missing in the M$M media today, investigative reporting. Every M$M news story is filtered through the news-desks of maybe 7 producers and editors. The few credible newspaper investigative reporters left, Gary Webb and Seymour M. Hersh are always dismissed as adminstration-haters with a political agenda no matter how many times they turn out to be right, and those that are always wrong, Novak, Gurwitz, Will, Goldberg, Sowell and Coulter among others, keep being pimped by the networks.

[FromWayDowntown]

Maybe nbadan is Mohammad Atta. I'm assuming that the cry for more coverage stems from, among other things, suggestions that Atta might still be alive somewhere.

I'm now wondering if that somewhere is the Spurstalk politial forum.

[Nbadan]

:lol

Mohamed Atta would be a good place to start.

The Secret World
Of Mohamed Atta
An Interview With Atta's American Girlfriend (http://www.rense.com/general73/secret.htm)

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

Mohamed Atta would be a good place to start.

The Secret World
Of Mohamed Atta
An Interview With Atta's American Girlfriend (http://www.rense.com/general73/secret.htm)

And, the NUMBER 1 Thing You Never Knew About Mohamed Atta:

1. Mohamed Atta was a psychopath.No shit?

I never would have guessed that a terrorist could be a psychopath!

[Nbadan]

No shit?

I never would have guessed that a terrorist could be a psychopath!

CORRECTION: He was as coke-snorting, heavy-drinking, prostitute-loving, porkchop-eatting, psychopath living in sin.

[ChumpDumper]

I would never guess a terra-ist could be these things!

[Nbadan]

I would never guess a terra-ist could be these things!

The only place Atta wasn't at was a Mosque.

[ChumpDumper]

A terra-ist can be a hypocrite who just wants to kill people?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

My whole worldview is shaken!

[The Power Hour]

I just have a really hard time fathoming the utter ignorance of you conspiracy theorists! This is you :madrun but, but, but I know this is what happened, don't try to tell me any different. And, don't tell me the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are just make believe; oh, and JFK and Elvis are living on an isolated tropical island with Marilyn Monroe! :p:


May I ask of a favor from some of you?. Would you all please re-read my first post on how I don't think it's a conspiracy, I hate Bush or that I have a tin foil hat on my head.

Now if there are still any of you left who can comprehend what I am saying and who can acually talk about facts that don't add up w/o all the silly put downs and name calling? Then please do so.
I would love to engage in some sort of intelligent conversation.
Thank you.

[spurschick]

Conspiracy theorists,
Evidence or not, do you really think that a conspiracy will ever truly be uncovered? The conspiracy theories about JFK are still alive today and there haven't been any deathbed confessionals about the "truth" of it. I'm not saying that there wasn't any stupid shit that happened on 9/11, but I think that those in power have become really good at covering their tracks.

That being said, what are the possibilities of Anderson Cooper (or anyone of that ilk) breaking the news that someone has come forward to tell the real "truth" of that day?

[gtownspur]

Conspiracy theorists,
Evidence or not, do you really think that a conspiracy will ever truly be uncovered? The conspiracy theories about JFK are still alive today and there haven't been any deathbed confessionals about the "truth" of it. I'm not saying that there wasn't any stupid shit that happened on 9/11, but I think that those in power have become really good at covering their tracks.

That being said, what are the possibilities of Anderson Cooper (or anyone of that ilk) breaking the news that someone has come forward to tell the real "truth" of that day?


what's so hard about accepting that evil people brought down those walls?


Why the lame conspiracy theories?

[Nbadan]

Evidence or not, do you really think that a conspiracy will ever truly be uncovered? The conspiracy theories about JFK are still alive today and there haven't been any deathbed confessionals about the "truth" of it. I'm not saying that there wasn't any stupid shit that happened on 9/11, but I think that those in power have become really good at covering their tracks.

There have been plenty of deathbed confessions regarding the JFK assasination, but your not gonna get one of the big power-players to ever confess that there was a conspiracy, it's just not gonna happen. These guys are bound by blood, tradition, and the standing of their families in elite society.

[gtownspur]

There have been plenty of deathbed confessions regarding the JFK assasination, but your not gonna get one of the big power-players to ever confess that there was a conspiracy, it's just not gonna happen. These guys are bound by blood, tradition, and the standing of their families in elite society.


They were gonna crucify their own for a blowjob.

WHy not?

[Mr Roper]

Why does the word conspiracy keep coming up? I just want to know why a steel frame building collapse faster that the law of gravity? And why they would say building 7 collapsed due to tower one falling when none of the towers had fallen yet?

I guess you guys have to keep using the word conspiracy as an excuse to keep from answering any of the tough questions. I don't give a shit who knew what and when. Just answer some questions WTF is so hard about that?

[=RTM=]

Looks like the power hour dude is shit out of luck as far as finding intelligent conversation :lmao

[gtownspur]

Looks like the power hour dude is shit out of luck as far as finding intelligent conversation :lmao



Maybe you should start an intelligent conversation with Powerpuff Hour.


Talking about the WTC being staged in an academic sense would be like having an intellectual discussion about a secret plan for all blowup sex dolls being turned into nanobots for the purpose of planning a massive invasion of Denmark in the year 2009.

Sorry, take your intelligent conversation to some ufo butt probing site.

[=RTM=]

Maybe you should start an intelligent conversation with Powerpuff Hour.


Talking about the WTC being staged in an academic sense would be like having an intellectual discussion about a secret plan for all blowup sex dolls being turned into nanobots for the purpose of planning a massive invasion of Denmark in the year 2009.

Did they use lead paint on your crib? When did the power hour say anything about WTC being staged The man asked questons that has nothing to do with who knew what. are you that ignorant or are you just trying to bait others in some sort of name calling conversation?





Sorry, take your intelligent conversation to some ufo butt probing site.


never mind you answered my question right here ^

[The Power Hour]

Sorry, take your intelligent conversation to some ufo butt probing site.

Nice to see freedom of speech is welcomed here.

PS: powderpuff is allot funnier than powerpuff. Is anyone here above the age of 16?
:wakeup

[gtownspur]

Fuck you asshole.

Then if he's asking questions, then he has no clue and neither i since we don't have degrees in structural engineering.


I don't have the awnsers fucktard or care. 19 hijackers flew those planes and that's all we need to know.

It's like you and him are both doing the baiting since you seem to already have the awnsers.

So anyway, how's the butt probing alien roswell sites jumpin?

[Nbadan]

Nice to see freedom of speech is welcomed here.

PS: powderpuff is allot funnier than powerpuff. Is anyone here above the age of 16?
:wakeup

We're all waiting and seeing where you are going. This is a debate forum full of wingnuts and moonbats, so lets here it.

[gtownspur]

Nice to see freedom of speech is welcomed here.

PS: powderpuff is allot funnier than powerpuff. Is anyone here above the age of 16?
:wakeup


you know i thought alot only had one L. What spelling skills you have?

Certainly farther down than 16.

I guess i just asked a question i already had an awnser for. Now we're both pompous dips. Lets be freinds.<sarcasm>

[Nbadan]

Why does the word conspiracy keep coming up? I just want to know why a steel frame building collapse faster that the law of gravity? And why they would say building 7 collapsed due to tower one falling when none of the towers had fallen yet?

Didn't WTC7 collapse hours after WTC1 and WTC2?

[gtownspur]

Nice to see freedom of speech is welcomed here.

PS:Power hour is alot funnier than powderpuff or powerpuff. Is anyone here above the age of 16?
:wakeup


Fixed it.

[gtownspur]

It takes a village full of idiots to upstart this wacko conspiracy.

RTM, ROper, and token douchebag mouse troll.

[gtownspur]

Taken from the great Maddox.


I've been getting a lot of email lately from people sending me this stupid 9/11 conspiracy video called "Loose Change." I've tried to ignore it for months now, but you morons keep forwarding it to me, and I keep having to add more email addresses to my spam filter. The ironic part is that I'm a huge conspiracy nut, and even I can't stomach this bullshit. For example, I believe that there is a small, reptile-like creature called Chupacabra that sucks the blood of goats in Mexico. Area 51? Hell yes. Roswell? Pass me the Kool-Aid. But "Loose Change" elevates bullshit to an artform. Watching this video is like being bukakked with stupid.

Unlike others who debunk 9/11 conspiracy theories, or "cons" for short, I'm not going to bother with going through intricate point-by-point rebuttals, or pointing out the hundreds of factual inaccuracies and outright lies in this "documentary," because I don't need to. In fact, I can debunk the entire story with one simple observation:


The fact that this man is alive...

...is proof that "Loose Change" is bullshit.
Here's why:

1. The man in the picture above is Dylan Avery. To be more precise, the fact that Dylan, his friends, and family are alive, is proof that "Loose Change" is bullshit. He, along with a couple of his friends, created a 9/11 conspiracy video claiming that the US government and the military caused 9/11. Take a closer look at the last part of that last sentence: he's claiming that the US government, for whatever ends, killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of more lives in the conflicts that ensued because of it.

2. Since Dylan's arguing that the government has no problem killing 3,000 innocent people, this raises the question: if his documentary is true, and we've established that the government has no ethical qualms about killing thousands of its own people, then why wouldn't the government kill Avery and his friends as well? What's a few more lives to them to ensure the success of this conspiracy?

Whatever reason it may be that the government supposedly orchestrated this conspiracy, it must have been worth it to them to cause so much suffering and loss of life. So if there's any truth to this, then you can bet your ass that the government wouldn't let a couple of pecker-neck chumps with a couple of Macs and too much time on their hands jeopardise their entire operation by letting this stupid video float around on the Internet. I can picture you morons emailing me now: "BUT MADOX, MAYBE DYLAN POSTED IT ON THE INTERNET BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT HAD A CHANCE TO REMOVE IT LOL." Yeah, too bad this rebuttal is inconsistent with the premise of Dylan's shit-festival of a movie: that the WTC was brought down "in a carefully planned and controlled demolition ... and it was pulled off with military precision." Now we're expected to believe that the same government that was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history--with military precision no less--is suddenly too incompetent to sniff out and shut down a little website set up by some college losers within days, if not minutes of its creation? The US government has the capability to monitor every electronic communication made anywhere in the world, yet we're expected to believe that they wouldn't be able to nix this kid long before his video ever became popular?

I win. There is no conspiracy. Eat my shit, losers.


The other type of 9/11 conspiracy email you dipshits keep sending is the $20 dollar WTC conspiracy. Glenn Beck--a loud-mouthed, fat-faced asshole on CNN--has a copy of it on his website:


The new U.S. $20 dollar bill contains hidden pictures of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks!

Yes! see for yourself...

1st) FOLD A NEW $20 BILL THIS WAY:




2nd) CONTINUE TO FOLD THIS WAY
Compare your fold precisely to this picture.



3rd) FOLD THE RIGHT SIDE UNDER,
exactly as you folded the left side.
You'll immediately see the Pentagon ablaze! (red circle)




4th) NOW FLIP IT OVER AND SEE OTHER SIDE
The Twin Towers of the World Trade Center are hit and smoking.



What are the odds that a simple geometric folding of the $20 bill would accidentally contain a representation of both terror attacks?


What are the odds that a simple geometric folding of a $20 bill with elements of design that were conceived in 1928 by a committee of treasurers, a full 42 years before the World Trade Center even existed, could accidentally contain a representation of both terror attacks? Pretty good, apparently.

The article on Beck's page goes on to ask: Need even more proof? No, you cock! You had me at "the U.S. $20 dollar bill contains hidden pictures of the World Trade Center." As if a folded picture of shrubbery on a bill that kind of looks like smoke wasn't convincing enough of a conspiracy, Beck offers this gem on his site to sway those few remaining skeptics:




This is followed by the fact that 9+11 = 20, and in big red letters:


COINCIDENCE? YOU DECIDE!
The question mark at the end of "COINCIDENCE" is clearly there to denote a rhetorical question, as clearly, this is not a coincidence. To help out Glenn Beck, I sat down with a $100 bill and tried to find any hidden messages the bill might contain. Here's one that he hasn't found yet:

Step 1:

Fold the bill so that the "ON" of "ONE" is covered:



Step 2:

Fold again like so, covering "HU" of "HUNDRED:"



Step 3:

Another fold covering part of "DOLLARS:"



Step 4:

Finally make one last fold, and with a magic marker, add the following letters to reveal a hidden message!




Coincidence? YOU DECIDE!










Further Reading:

For anyone interested in a point-by-point debunking of some of the most popular conspiracy theories out there (like the fact that steel melts at 1525° C, and although jet fuel burns only at 825° C, it doesn't have to burn hot enough to melt to cause the buildings to collapse, since steel loses 50% of its strength at 648 ° C), check out the following links:

National Institute of Standards and Technology: Fact Sheet
Popular Mechanics
Loose Change guide

1,916,163 people have been bukkaked.

[email protected]

Back to how much I rule...

© 2006 by Maddox

[Steve Perry]

Fuck you asshole.



And people still wonder why the political forum has gone to shit.
:wakeup

[gtownspur]

And people still wonder why the political forum has gone to shit.
:wakeup



Yes, Norcal thinks so if that says anything.

[Happy Devil]

I dare any of you asshats to answer one of these questions.


1. Why didn't jets intercept the airliners since they
had numerous warnings of terrorist attacks?
2. Why did Ashcroft stop flying commercial, citing an
unidentified "threat" in July 2001?
3. Why were there no photos or videos of the Pentagon
plane?
4. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of
the classroom?
5. Where was George H. W. Bush at the time of the
attacks?
6. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the
flights all use the term boxcutters?
7. Where are the flight recorders?
8. Why were the FISA warrants discontinued?
9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live
camera?
10 Why was security meeting scheduled for
9/11cancelled by WTC management on 9/10?
11. How did they come up with the "culprits" so
quickly?
12. How did they find the terrorist's cars at the
airports so quickly?
13. Why did Shrub dissolve the Bin Laden Task Force?
14. Why the strange pattern of debris from Flight 93?
15. Why was no plane seen at the Pentagon?
16. How extensive was the relationship between the
Taliban, the ISI and the CIA?
17. What exactly was the role of Henry Kissinger at
UNOCAL?
18. When was it decided to cancel building a pipeline
from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan?
19. When was the decision made to send the FEMA to New
York?
20. Why did FEMA spokesman Tom Kenney tell Dan Rather
he was in New York on Sept. 10?
21. Why did the FBI in 1996 close the files to
investigate Osama bin Laden's relatives in Washington?
22. Why did .Bush stop inquiries into terrorist
connections of the Bin Laden family in early 2001?
23. Who made the decision to have John O'Neill stop
investigating Al-qeada accounts?
24. Who gave the decision to give him a security job
at the World Trade Center?
25. Did John O'Neill meet anyone of the FEMA in the
night of September 10th?
26. What about media reports that hijackers bought
tickets for flights scheduled after Sept. 11?
27. Why did none of the 19 hijackers appeared on the
passenger lists?
28. Why would devout Muslims frequent bars, drink
alcoholic beverages and leave their bibles?
29. Why would the hijackers use credit cards and allow
drivers licenses with photos to be zeroxed?
30. Why did the hijackers force passengers to call
relatives?
31. How did the hijackers change the flight plan
without law enforcement or the military try to stop
them?
32. Which hijacker's passport was found in the WTC
rubble? Who found it and what time?
33. How could the FBI distinguish between "regular"
Muslims and hijacker Muslims on those flights?
34. Why was there not one "innocent" Muslim on board
any of these flights?
35. Did someone go through the passenger lists looking
for Muslim names and label them as hijackers?

MOHAMMED ATTA

36. Did the Florida police provide information that
Atta was searched because of 1)an expired Visa, 2)
driving a car without a license, 3) because of an
incident at Miami Airport?
37. Why did Atta leave his bag at the airport and the
employees didn't put it on board?
38. Who found his bag? How can we be sure it it was
his bag?
39. Why did Atta place a video "how to fly planes", a
uniform and his last will into his bag, knowing that
he would commit suicide?
40. Why did Atta leave his drivers license in a rental
car?
41. When did Atta train on a flight simulator?
42. Did Atta leave the US while in training and then
return?
43. Why did Atta decide to study at Opa Locka, a
famous hub of 6 Navy training bases and includes
government partners like U.S. Coast Guard Air Station,
Police (Miami-Dade) Aviation Unit?
44. Why was Atta allowed to study since he was stopped
by the police for driving without a license and also
for violating his visa?

THE BLACK BOXES AND CRASH VIDEO

45. Why were the Black Boxes never recovered ?
46. Why didn't the FBI release the air traffic
controller's protocols?
47. Why did the FBI not release the Flight Data
Recorder info?
48. Who video-recorded the first plane hitting the
tower? Why did he disappear from the media?

THE HIJACKERS

49. How did the FBI receive a tip from a passenger who
boarded a different plane and reached his destination
safely that he had a confrontation with two ME men at
the Logan airport in Boston?
50. Who tipped the FBI to storm the Westin Hotel in
Boston on September 12th?
51. Where did the photos of all 19 hijackers come
from?
52. How were all hijackers identified just 2 days
after the attack?
53. Why did all 19 names not appear on the passenger
list 2 days after the hijacker list was released?
54. Why do none of the names appear on the passenger
lists UA and AA gave to CNN?
55. How could the hijackers disable the defense
systems?
56. Why did the FBI ignore Bin Laden's family, who
left the United States without further investigation
57. What about the supposed hijackers who are still
alive?
58. Was there a reason to change the list of the
original 19 hijackers?
59. What happened to Ayub Ali Khan and Mohammed Jaweed
Azmath, who have been in jail since
September 2001, because of possession of box cutters
on a train?Who gave the tip to arrest them?
60. Why did it take 4 months before Ramsi Binalschibhs
name was mentioned, since he was a good friend of
Mohammad Atta and lived in his apartment in Hamburg?
61. Why did it take 4 months until December 11 to
charge Zacarias Moussaoui for the 9/11 attacks when
his case was known worldwide for months, but not
mentioned in the American media?
62. Whatever happened with Lotfi Raissi, who was
arrested in UK for teaching the terrorist pilots?
63. What is the current status of the investigation of
Mamoun Darkazanli Import-Export-Company in Hamburg and
Al Taqwa Management Organisation in Lugano?
64. Why was Richard Reid able to enter the Paris
airport twice and who paid for his hotel?
65. Who hired Zacarias Masspoui to learn how to fly
passenger jets in the United States?
66. Why did the FBI or CIA fail to interrogate him
between August and December 2001?

BIN LADEN

67. Did the CIA monitor Bin Laden in 1998 with the
help of 15 Afghan agents, paid $1,000/ month?
68. Where are these agents? Was Johnny "Mike" Spann
one? Was John Walker Lindh one?
69. Is an Afghan agent a member of the ISI? Is an
Afghan agent working for Bin Laden?
70. When was the first time Tenet mentioned the
Al-Quaeda group to any member of the Senate?
71. Why did the Pentagon release a new video version
or translation of the Bin Laden Home video?
72. Why it was released only 8 hours after translation
by the German magazine MONITOR on December ?
73. Why were the four translators prior US-Government
workers?
74. When was the Bin Laden Home Video found and who
found it?
75. Who found the video if Northern Alliance and US
troops had not yet arrived in Kandahar or Jahalabad?
76. Does the timestamp on the Bin Laden video indicate
that it was found two weeks after it was produced?
77. Why was the public not informed who found the
video and when?
78. Why according to MONITOR magazine, were the most
controversial statements translated incorrectly?
79. Why was the video released?
80. Who gave the final decision to release it?
81. Why is the Bin Laden video of June 2001 in which
he praised the attack, available on the Internet?
82. What about Bin Laden's statements on Al-Jazeera in
June 2001 about the bombing of USS Cole, which are
similar to the statements on the November 2001 home
video?
83. Why did Bin Laden state in Umman Magazine in Sept.
2001, that he was not involved in the WTC?
84. Is Bin Laden still on the payroll of the CIA or
ISI?
85. Did the Bin Laden Group Inc. help build ToraBora
with the CIA?
86. What was the purpose of the meeting with General
Pervez Musharraf in May 2001?
87. Why was a statement released that Al-Khalifa bin
Laden, who is not the mother of Bin Laden, had a
telephone call with Bin Laden on September 9, rather
than Alia Ghanem, his mother? Why did Alia Ghanem say
she did not believe he planned the attack?

ANTHRAX AND MICROBIOLOGIST DEATHS

100. What happened on September 18th, when an employee
of Batelle Memorial Institute was involved in a
so-called anthrax hoax on that day? Was he arrested?
101. Why did the investigation of that case begin in
December 2001?
102. What was in the memo of Dr. Leonard Horowitz, a
public health consumer advocate and author of "Death
in the Air" on October 1, 2001, almost two weeks
before the first anthrax letter was sent from Trenton
to the American media building in Boca Raton?
103.What about his letter of Nov. 13 in which he
claimed that BAYER is behind the anthrax infections?
104. Did US BioDefense laboratories send the
anthrax-laced letters to get a new budget for
research?
105. What about the statement of former UN-weapons
inspector of Iraq, Richard Spertzel, who told ABC,
"...he knows only five scientists in the USA who would
be in the situation to produce such a fine, highly
developed spore material"?
106. Why did it take 48 hours to inform Bob Stevens
that he had anthrax?
107. Why were envelopes never found near Bob Stevens,
Amelie Lundgren and Mia Nguyen?
108. How come Microsoft got a hoax anthrax letter from
Malaysia on the same day that President Bush said
Malaysia might be one of the next targets of the
United States?
109. Why did the FBI never investigate the case Don
Wiley, a Bioscientist who disappeared 11/13/01?
110. Why did the FBI begin to investigate after his
body was found on December 22, 300 miles away?
Was there an investigation at the military hydro plant
where workers found him?
Why did the media write different versions about how,
when and where he was found?
Why did the police report change 2 months later from
suicide to an accident?
111. What was the goal of Bioport in 1997?
112.Did development of anti-anthrax vaccines begin in
1998?
113.When did Bioport decide to produce anthrax
vaccines?
114. Was it before or after Sept. 1998 that Admiral
Crowe was put in charge of investigations of the
August 7, 1998 bombings of Embassy Nairobi and Embassy
Dar Es Salaam?
115. Did the schedule for developing anti-anthrax
vaccines begin starting in 1998?
116. When did the US Government ask Bayer for help in
developing a vaccine?
117. When did Bayer start sending the vaccines to the
U.S.?
118. When did Bayer double production of the vaccines?
119. Was the death of Vladimir Pasechnik investigated?
He was former director of the Institute of Ultra Pure
Biochemical Preparations of the Soviet bio-warfare
establishment Biopreparat in November 2001?
120. How are the deaths of scientists Robert M.
Schwartz, Dr. Benito Que and Set Van Nguyen explained
since all occurred in the same month? Is Set van
Nguyen related to the anthrax victim Mia Nguyen?
121. What about the death of Nancy Sonnenfeld
(FEMA-Wife)?
122. Why was the NJ Division of Fish and Wildlife
examining Anthrax in August 2000?
123. Do any employees in Trenton have the same
handwriting as printed on the Anthrax envelopes?
124. Is it just a coincidence that the laboratory is
also based in Trenton?
125. Did the FBI ever ask Fort Detrick to examine
anthrax spores?
126. What about the list of 15-20 labs (maintained by
Barbara Rosenzweig) who used Fort Detrick spores?
127. Does the CIA have spores different from those at
Fort Detrick?
128. Why did Tommy Thompson, The Secretary of the
Department of Health and Human Services,
and other Bush cabinet members meet secretly (i.e.
illegally) in Oct. 2001 with officials of the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America
(PhRMA) to develop plans for their Emergency
Preparedness Task Force?
129. Why did he decide on October 25, 2001 to ask
Congress for another $500 million to produce Acambis's
smallpox vaccine?
130. Why did it take 4.5 hours until Jean Marie
Malecki , Director Palm Beach County Health
Department, picked up the phone for employees of the
AMI-Building, Boca Raton. This is where editor Bob
Stevens got anthrax. Why did she wait two days before
she visited that building again?
131. Did Walter Gilbert, Director Myriad Genetics ever
get official permission from relatives of those killed
at WTC to examine their DNA?

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES

150. Why did General Mahmud Ahmad, former head of the
ISI quit his position?
151. Why did retaliation against the Taliban begin the
day he stepped down?
152. Who in the ISI paid $100.000 to Mohammad Atta?
153. Why does Ahmad think that another secret service
was involved in the WTC attack?
Which Secret Service was he referring to? Did other
ISI official's believe that? Did officials of the CIA
believe that? Did some officials of the Mossad believe
that?
154. What was the purpose of Ahmad's visit to
Washington on 9/11?
155. Who told Russian Foreign Minister Ivanov to abort
an air strike against Afghanistan in May 2000?
156. Did Russian intelligence notify the CIA in 2001
that 25 terrorist pilots had been training for suicide
missions, as reported in the Russian press?

KISSINGER

1. What did Kissinger mean that an "outside threat
from beyond", a "world government" and "individual
rights" who are "willingly relinquished for the
guarantee of their well-being granted", what you
mentioned in 1991 on a Bilderberg Conference?
2. What was his role at UNOCAL?
3. Is he in contact with representatives of these
companies or institutions:
4. What did he discuss at the Bilderberg meeting last
year in May 2001?
5. What was the purpose of his meeting with Moscow
Mayor Yuri Luzhkov in July 2001?
6. Why does he write in "Toward a New Diplomacy for
the 21st Century" that America doesn't need a Foreign
Policy?
7. When was the last time Henry Kissinger met
US-Ambassador in Pakistan, Robert Oakley?

THE PURCHASE OF AIRLINE PUT OPTIONS

1. Is it true that the CIA is in possession of PROMIS
software?
2. What is the purpose of PROMIS?
3. Did A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard, CIA, own any stocks of
United Airlines, American Airlines, Merrill Lynch, 4.
Morgan Stanley, AXA Re (insurance) which owns 25% of
American Airlines, and Munich Re.?
5. What is his connection to Alex Brown, Deutsche
Bank?
6. Did he give any insider information about to George
Tenet, CIA?
7. Who was the investor who purchased 2,000 UAL put
options between August and September 11, 2001?
8. Did Deutsche Bank-Alex Brown own any stocks of UA,
AA, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AXA Re (insurance)
which owns 25% of American Airlines, and Munich Re?
9. What about the 2,500 UA-contracts which were "split
into 500 chunks each, directing each order to
different U.S. exchanges around the country
simultaneously." on August 10, 2001?
10. Did Deutsche purchase UAL options in August 2001?
11. Why did DB-AB purchase 4,744 put options on United
Air Lines stock as opposed to only 396 call s on
September 6-7? What was the purpose of doing that?
12. What is the connection to Wally Kromgaard?
13. Did Deutsche Bank or Wally Kromgaard purchase
4,516 put options on American Airlines as compared to
748 call options on September 10?
14. What was the reason of Mayo Shattuck III
re-asssignment on September 15th?

THE TALIBAN AND THE CARPET OF GOLD..

1. When was the last time they met any representatives
of the US-Government?
2. What was the purpose of these meetings?
3. Do the Taliban know Karl E. Inderfurth and State
Department counterterrorism chief Michael Sheehan?
4. Do they know which US-Representative said in
February 2001: "Either you accept our offer of a
carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of
bombs"?
5. When was the last time the Taliban was in touch
with this representative?
6. Did Abdul Haq, the former Mujahedin leader executed
Sept 2001 by the Taliban, decide in Winter 2000 to
attack the Taliban?
7. Did production of opium in Afghanistan fall from
3276 tonnes in 2000 to 185 tonnes in 2001?

GLOBAL HAWK TECHNOLOGY

1. Was Global Hawk technology able to remotelycontrol
unmanned planes in 1999 for 27 hours?
2. Did Northrop-Grumman use Global Hawk technology in
the war in Afghanistan since October 2001?
3. What is the purpose of unmanned technology?
4. Is Northrup in contact with any engineers of
Boeing?
5. Did Northrup install Global Hawk technology in a
commercial airplane?

CARRIER AND TROOP MOVEMENTS BEFORE SEPT 11

1. Did two U.S. carrier battle groups arrive in the
Gulf of Arabia just off the Pakistani coast before
9/11?
2. Did 17,000 U.S. troops join more than 23,000 NATO
troops in Egypt for Operation 'Bright Star' on 9/11?
What was the purpose of both of these operations?

BIOCHEMICAL WARFARE

1. When did Tommy Franks learn that he would use
Thermobarics in ToraBora?
2. Does he know if it had been tested on December 12
in Nevada?
3. Who told Franks that Bin Laden might hide in
ToraBora?
4. Is the main purpose of Thermobarics to destroy
buried bio and chemical stocks?
5. Was Thermobarics developed for the purpose to use
one day in Iraq?
6. When was the first time Franks used Thermobarics?
Was it before or after the announcement of the end of
ABM Treaty on December 11?
7. When did the US decide to use B61-11, the "nuclear
version" of its "conventional" BLU-113 counterpart?
8. Why has the NSA destroyed data collected on
Americans or US companies since the Sept. 11 attacks?

ABORTED ATTEMPTS TO GET BIN-LADEN

1. Why did Clinton abort an attack on Bin Laden in
October 1999?
2. Who was responsible for that operation?
3. Why was the operation put on hold?
4. Why did Musharraf halt a covert operation to attack
Bin Laden in October 1999?
5. Why did the GOP in Congress stop almost every move
Clinton made against terrorism? They refused to
believe reports and pass necessary legislation. In
1996 Clinton proposed a very extensive anti-terrorism
regulation.

RICHARD REID

1. Who hired Richard Reid to threaten a passenger
plane in Paris?
2. Who did he send an email to in Pakistan?
3. Has he ever been in touch with the ISI or CIA?
4. Did he know the difference between an explosive and
a detonator?
5. How many ounces did he have in his shoes?
6. What size are his shoes?
7. Who build or prepared his shoes?

JOHN WALKER LINDH

1. Has John Walker Lindh ever been in touch with the
CIA?
2. Did he ever work for the CIA?
3. Who arrested him in 2001?
4. Why didn't he escape in the tumult to nearby
Masar-e-Sharif?
5. Who hired his lawyer, Richard Brohanan? Who paid
his lawyer?
6. Why didn't he go to Guantanamo Bay?

DICK CHENEY

1. When did Cheney stop working for Halliburton?
2. Is he still in possession of any Halliburton stock?
3. Is he still in contact with Halliburton?
4. Was Halliburton invited to an oil conference in May
2002?
5. Does Cheney know when that meeting was planned?
6. Did Cheney have influence concerning Halliburton
contracts with the Pentagon?
7. What exactly did Cheney decide to do on September
11th?
8. Did he speak with an Air Force Commander or Lt.
Gen. Charles F. Wald on that day?
9. When did he inform the president about the hijacked
airplanes on September 11?
10. Who called the White House on September 11 at 9:30
PM about a possible threat?
11. Why was no air security at the White House or the
Pentagon at 9:30 PM?
12. When and who gave the approval to evacuate the
White House at 9:45 PM?
13. What was the purpose of a meeting with Indian
opposition leader Sonia Gandhi in June 2001 about a
multimillion-dollar debt owed to Enron from a major
energy project in Indian Power Plants?
14. When was the last time Cheney spoke with anyone
from ENRON?

COLIN POWELL

1. What was the role of Colin Powell?
2. Who decided to give $43 million in aid to the
Taliban regime in May 2001?
3. Did he know that production of opium in Afghanistan
fell from 3276 tonnes in 2000 to 185 in 2001?
4. What was the purpose of his decision to treat the
Taliban prisoners as War Prisoners? Is this decision
in any way related to media reports 2 days earlier
that Powell may have been involved in negotiations
with Indian Power Plants?
5. What was the purpose of his short trip to Latin
America on September 11?
6. Who decided that he fly to Latin America on that
day?
7. Why would someone threaten him in Afghanistan on
January 17, 2002 as Newsweek reported?
8. What was the purpose of Powell meeting with India's
foreign minister on April 6, 2001?
9. Did Enron or Cheney ask Powell to help collect a
$64 million debt on an Indian plant project?

GEORGE H.W. BUSH

1. When was the last time George H.W. Bush traveled to
South Arabia on behalf of the Carlyle Group?
2. What was the purpose of that meeting?

THOMAS WHITE

1. Is Thomas White still in contact with ENRON?
2. Did his contact at anytime influence his decisions?
3. Does he still own ENRON stocks?

DELMART VREELAND

1. Did Vreeland warn Canadian Intelligence in May 2001
about possible terrorist attacks on New York and the
Pentagon?
2. Did he place the warning in an envelope while in
prison in Toronto, Canada?
3. Where did he get his information?
4. Whom did he give the envelope to?
5. Why was he placed in jail?

SAUDI-BINLADIN-GROUP.COM

1.Was the domain created on September 11th, 2000?
2. Who paid for that domain?
3. Are they also owners of Iridium Satellites?
4. When did they end contact with relatives of the
Bush family?

THE CARLYLE GROUP

1. When was the last time George H.W. Bush traveled to
Saudi Arabia on behalf of the privately owned Carlyle
Group, the 11th largest defense contractor in the
U.S.?
2. What was the purpose of that meeting?
3. When did he resign from Carlyle Group?
4. Is he still in touch with any of their
representatives?

STEPHEN LANDER, Director MI5

1. Did Lander monitor a phone conversation between
Zacarias Moussaoui and Richard Reid in Dec. 2000?
2. What did Lander tell representatives of the CIA
about Zacarias Moussaoui?
3. Why did he stop monitoring Djamel Beghal, member of
Takfir-wal-Hijra (financed by Osama bin Laden) in
August 2001?

BIN LADEN IN DUBAI

1. Did Bin Laden in July 2001 enter an American
hospital in Dubai?
2. Did he arrive on July 4, 2001 on a flight from
Qetta, Pakistan to American Hospital?
3. Was he at the hospital July 4-11, 2001?
4. Did Bernard Koval, CEO of American Hospital, ever
speak with Doctor Terry Callaway about that visit?
5. Why did he change his statements about this story
not being true and that he "asked around"?
6. What is the difference between Continuous
Ambulatory Peritoneal Dialysis and Continuous Cycling
Peritoneal Dialysis?
7. Did Koval know Larry Stevens?
8. Can Koval explain why Richard Labeviere, author of
"Terror Dollars" (about illegal Al-Quaeda accounts),
wrote the story about Osama Bin Laden's kidney
operation?

GEORGE W. BUSH

1. What exactly happened on September 11 and at what
time was President Bush informed?
2. Why was President Bush scheduled to visit a school
in Florida?
3. Who scheduled the time of the visit?
4. When exactly did Bush learn about the first crash
into the WTC?
5. How could he have seen that on TV?
6. Why didn't he interrupt his school meeting as soon
as he learned of the first plane crash?
7. Did Bush ever wonder how Bin Laden was able to hear
the first plane crash live on the radio?
8. Which radio station he was listening to?
9. Can Bush explain how Bin Laden's Home Video was
found only two weeks after it was produced?
10. Why did Bush decide to release Bin Laden's Home
Video?
11. What is the purpose of the Western Hemisphere
Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC) in Fort
Benning, Georgia, where terrorists have been trained
for undercover agents in South America?
Bush stated "if any government sponsors the outlaws
and killers of innocents, they have become outlaws and
murderers themselves". So what does he think about
Fort Benning?
12. What is the role of Zalmay Khalilzad (former
UNOCAL) in the National Security Council ?
13. What is the current role of Zalmay Khalilzad
(former UNOCAL) in Afghanistan?
14. When was Bush's last contact with anyone from
ENRON?
15. Why was China admitted to the WTO on September 13
after 15 years of unsuccessful attempts?
16. Why did Bush postpone the release of Ronald
Reagan's records?
17. How does Bush feel about the need to investigate
the CIA's mistakes?
18. Does Bush agree with senators John McCain, Joseph
I. Lieberman, Porter J. Goss, former C.I.A.
clandestine case officer and a Florida Republican,
Richard C. Shelby and Ron Paul, US Congressman, who
want an investigation and have said "Secret government
is winning out over open government"?
19. Did he know before he left his hotel that morning
on the way to the school that the 1st tower had been
hit?ABC news reported that morning that he was asked
by reporters if he was aware of events in NYC and he
answered yes. If so, why did he later say he first
heard of it was when he was at the school?
20. Why did Bush continue to sit in that classroom
reading to children when he should have been
conferring with his advisors?
21. Why did Bush say that he and Card initially
thought it was an accident involving a small plane?
22. Given all the information sources available to the
POTUS and his staff how could his people not have
known the kind of plane involved?
23. Why didn't they know at this point, as did the FAA
and NORAD, that aircraft were hijacked?
The Batallion Chief in the 9/11 video was seen and
heard asking for military backup immediately after the
building was hit.
24.How come the NYFD knew it was terrorism right away
but the POTUS and his aides just calmly went about
their business?

TONY BLAIR

1. Were 25,000 British troops and the largest British
Armada since the Falkland Islands War, part of
Operation 'Essential Harvest' pre-positioned in Oman,
the closest point on the Arabian Peninsula to Pakistan
before September 11, 2001?
2. When did he begin to place SIS-Special Forces in
Afghanistan? Why?

THE SUN-SENTINEL

1. Did Gloria Irish own unit 1504 at the Delray
Racquet Club, 755 Dotterel?
2. Did she rent that property to Hamza Alghamdi in
August 2001?
3. Why did the media not report about a connection of
the Sun-Sentinel and the hijackers?
4. Why did it first appear that the hijackers had
something to do with the anthrax attacks?
5. Why has this connection or coincidence never
appeared in the media again?
6. What was the connection between husband Michael
Irish (SunSentinel) and Bob Stevens (who died from
Anthrax)?

WARNINGS

1. When did Vladimir Putin warn the CIA about a
possible terrorist attack and what was their reaction?
2. What was the purpose of the meeting between
Christina Rocca, director of Asian affairs at the
State Department and the Taliban ambassador Mollah
Abdul Salam Zaeef in Islamabad in August 2001?
3. Why did she oversee the delivery of Stinger
missiles in the 80s to Afghan mujaheddin?
4. Did Walid Arkeh in Seminole County jail inform the
FBI in August 2001 about an attack on America? What
was the reaction of the FBI?
5. Why did Dr. Jeffrey Starr, U.S. department of
defense, visit Tajikistan in Jan 2001?
6. When did Jean-Claude Cousseran, Director DGSE ,
French Secret Service inform the CIA about terrorist
attacks on America? What was their reaction?
7. What does he know about the monitoring of Djamel
Beghal, member of Takfir-wal-Hijra (financed by Osama
bin Laden) and Kamel Daoudi? Did he ever inform the
CIA about that? And when?
8. When did Italian Deputy Prime Minister Gianfranco
Fini inform the CIA about a possible attack on the
American president "with the use of an airplane"? What
was their reaction?
9. When did President Mubarak, Egypt, inform the CIA
about a possible attack on America with an "airplane
stuffed with explosives"? What was their reaction?
10. When did Efraim Halevy , Director of Mossad since
1998 (unconfirmed) inform the CIA about a possible
attack with "200 terrorists" on America? What was
their reaction?
11. Is it true he warned Ariel Sharon not to travel to
New York on September 11 to speak at a festival?
12. Did a caller to Loxley Banks, Director Radio
Cayman Islands talk show, give several warnings of an
imminent attack on the U.S on Sept. 3 -10?
13. The London Times reported that someone from the
FAA warned Salman Rushdie not to travel to the United
States on September 3rd? If this is true, who was it?
14. Did the FBI investigate the two men who met
Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi in Harry's Bar at
the Helmsley Hotel in Manhattan on September 8, 2001?
15. Who does Abdullah Abdullah (Northern Alliance)
believe killed Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud on
September 9, 2001?
16. When and why did he decide to attack Kabul on
September 11 at 5:30 PM?
17. When did he decide to invade Masar-i-Scharif
18. Did the CIA helped him provoke a tumult?
19. Did he ever meet John Walker Lindh?
20. Why was Major John Kenny, Commander Wright
Patterson Air Base, Dayton placedon high alert on
September 10? Did he inform companies in Dayton to
shutdown their offices?
21. Why was Colonel William M. Dietrick , Commander
Defense Language Institute in Garrison, Monterey on
high alert on September 10?
22. Why did one of Kenneth (Ken) Weinbrecht (President
SAMS ) executives say on September 10, that he was a
'Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to
target US forces and make it look like a
Palestinian/Arab act.'"
23. Did Jean-Louis Bruguiere, French anti-terrorism,
inform the CIA on September 10 about a possible
terrorist attack? If so, what was their reaction?
24. Why did Atta and hijacker Abdulaziz Alomari checke
into a Portland, Maine motel (unidentified) on
September 10?
25. Why was the Portland, Airport, according to
eye-witnesses, in full charge of more military
officials and soldiers than usual, weeks before
September 11, 2001?
26. Why, as the San Francisco Chronicle reported, was
Mayor Brown warned to be "cautious in your travel" the
night of September 10? Who warned him?
27. Why did Alex Diamandis, Odigo Vice President of
Sales and Marketing, receive a warning on his
messenger service about a possible attack on America
on September 11, 2001? At which time?
28. When did Dr.August Hanning , President BND
(Bundesnachrichtendienst Germany) inform the CIA that
"Middle Eastern terrorists are 'planning to hijack
commercial aircraft ?" What was their reaction?
Did he allow an Iranian prisoner in Hamburg call to
the CIA in Summer 2001 about an attack on America?
What was their reaction?

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL/GLOBAL HAWK

1. Why did Kenneth Waldie, Stanley Hall, Herbert Homer
and Peter Gay of Raytheon travel on Sept. 11? 2. 2.
Can Global Hawk technology be used for at least 27
hours?
3. Is Global Hawk technology used in commercial
airplanes?
4. Did Danielle O'Brien, air traffic controller,
inform another air traffic control center about a
plane traveling fast southwest of Dulles after
spotting it 8:18 AM on September 11?
5. Who was informed and what happened?

THE PENNSYLVANIA CRASH

1. Why didn't Dr. James G. Roche, Secretary of the Air
Force try to reach the airplanes in NYC (7 minutes
time for McGuire AFB in New Jersey ) and at the
Pentagon (10 minutes time)?
2. Did Roche ever try to shutdown the plane in
Pennsylvania?
3. Can Roche explain why magazines of that plane were
found 20 miles away from the crash?
Andrews AFB is 13 miles away. He had one hour and
fifteen minutes to respond to the plane that hit the
Pentagon. What happened during that time?
4. Can he explain why many ear- and eye witnesses,
including workers of the road construction company New
Enterprise saw or heard F-16 jets ?
5. Why did President Bush say only one week later that
he tried to shutdown that plane?
6. Who gave that decision?

DEFENSE ALERTS AND MOVEMENTS

1. Why did George Bush leave Barksdale Air Force Base
aboard Air Force One and flew to an Air Force base in
Nebraska on 1:48 PM on September 11 and returned to
Washington at 4:30 PM?
2. What exactly did Donald Rumsfeld do that day before
he arrived at the Pentagon around 3:55 PM?
3. How did Rumsfeld know at 5:30 PM on September 11
that the plane in Pennsylvania could have been headed
for one of three possible targets: Camp David, the
White House or the U.S. Capitol building?
4. Can he explain why early media reports told us that
no squadrons of combat-ready fighter jets have been at
Andrews and later changed their reports that they
haven't been on high alert only?
5. Why was Air Force Lt. Col. Vic Warzinski, another
Pentagon spokesman, so sure on September 11 that
aircraft was coming your way?
6. What did the D.C. Air National Guard in Washington
do on September 11?
7. Can he explain what those 3 fighters did from
9:40AM until 9:55AM when they finally turned towards
Flight 93 and were 60 miles out at 10:06am?
8. Can he explain why Air Traffic Controllers in a
Nashua Telegraph article did report an F-16 was
circling Flight 93 and was in visual range at the time
of crash?
9. Can he confirm a witness report that National Guard
F-16's have been at Hancock field in Syracuse NY in
the air early that morning before 9AM?
10. How could the hijackers know how to disable
defense systems?
11. What was the official reason that fighters of the
305th Air Wing, McGuire Air Force Base, NJ did not
intercept the 2nd hijacked plane in NYC? This would
have been possible within 7 minutes after 8:48 AM
12. Why did none of the 459th Aircraft Squadron
(Andrews AFB) fighters intercept the plane which
crashed into the Pentagon? Andrews AFB is 10 miles
from Washington DC.
13. Col. Ken McClellan, Air Force spokesman said on
September 11, that Mohammad Atta attended the
International Officer's School at Maxwell/Gunter Air
Force Base in Montgomery, and was seen by
eye-witnesses? What was McClellan doing there? Why did
he later deny the report?
14. Why did he decide not to shutdown ECHELON base Bad
Aibling in Germany as planned for 2002?
15. What is the reason that none of any Air Force
fighters reached the hijacked plane in time?
16. Many eye- and witnesses think that the plane in
Pennsylvania was shot down. What is the scientific
explanation why the magazine of the airplane was found
many miles away?
17. Why did Jack Kelly, idefense.com, inform USA Today
only 12 minutes after the first crash (8:48AM), that
terror groups using Web encryption may have been
responsible? And why was he so sure before the second
crash at 9:03 PM?
18. Did Kelly serve with the U.S. government where he
managed several significant programs for the
information warfare and intelligence communities?
19. Did Joseph J. Esposito, Chief of NYPD try to
contact the Pentagon at 9:06 AM on September 11? What
was their reaction?
10. Why didn't General Elwood "Pete" Quesada of the
FAA inform President Bush between 8:15 and 9:05 about
four simultaneously hijacked planes? Who did he inform
and what was their reaction?

THE WTC COLLAPSE

1. What does Nicholas Scoppetta of FDNY know about the
latest reports of the WTC destruction?
2. Can he explain why many witnesses saw and heard
more than two explosions in the WTC?
3. Can he explain why both Twin Towers and Building 7
collapsed in that way?
4. Can he explain why a gas tank was in Building 7?
5. Can he explain why there were no passengers in the
subway under the WTC?
6. Can he explain why there was no guard at the gold
reservoir under the WTC?
7. Why did Dr. Jeffrey P. Koplan, Director CDC
prepare, as CNN reported, emergency-response teams on
September 11 at 11:16 PM?

MISCELLANEOUS

1. When did Dr.August Hanning , President BND
(Bundesnachrichtendienst Germany) inform the CIA that
"Middle Eastern terrorists are 'planning to hijack
commercial aircraft ?" What was their reaction?
Did he allow an Iranian prisoner in Hamburg call to
the CIA in Summer 2001 about an attack on America?
What was their reaction?
2. When did Tayseer Allouni , Kabul correspondent
Al-Jazeera, receive his first video from Bin Laden?
Can he explain why the first video on October 7 2001,
the day of the retaliation, looked like it was
recorded in the morning?
3. Did Tom Simmons (former U.S. Ambassador to
Pakistan), Karl Inderfurth (former Assistant Secretary
of State for South Asian affairs) and Lee Coldren
(former State Department expert on South Asia) decide
or announce in a July 2001 meeting that an attack was
planned on the Taliban in October 2001?
4. Why did Ms. Barbara Bodine, US ambassador to Yemen
stop John O'Neill from investigating Al-Quaeda
accounts in July 2001?
5. Did Niaz Niak, former Pakistani Foreign Secretary
say in mid July 2001 that the USA planned military
action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban?
6. Did Hameed Gul, retired Pakistani general of
Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence, say that a
secret service was involved in the attack on America?
7. Why did Tommy Thompson, The Secretary of the
Department of Health and Human Services,
and other Bush cabinet members meet secretly (i.e.
illegally) in Oct. 2001 with officials of the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America
(PhRMA) to develop plans for their Emergency
Preparedness Task Force? Why did he decide on October
25, 2001 to ask Congress for another $500 million to
produce Acambis's smallpox vaccine?
8. Why did it take 4.5 hours until Jean Marie Malecki
, Director Palm Beach County Health Department, picked
up the phone for employees of the AMI-Building, Boca
Raton. This is where editor Bob Stevens got anthrax.
Why did she wait two days before she visited that
building again?
9. Why did Mayor Guilani sell WTC rubble to India for
recycling and also China? Who made that decision?
10. What was the purpose of U.S. Ambassador Wendy
Chamberlain's phone call on October 10, 2001 to the
Pakistani oil minister? Why was she sure that a
previously abandoned Unocal pipeline from Turkmenistan
across Afghanistan to the Pakistani coast for the
purpose of selling oil and gas to China, was back on
the table in view of recent geopolitical developments?
11. What exactly was found on Z. Moussaoui's computer
after 9/11, when local agents were given a Federal
Intelligence Security Act (FISA) warrant, which they
had requested six weeks previously?
This ties directly into the question of the
administration's dealings with the Taliban, its
reluctance to investigate Saudi nationals, etc.
12. Why the attack on Cynthia McKinney for asking: 1)
why has there been no investigation of the 9-11
attack? and 2) did Bush/CIA/NSA know of it beforehand,
and allow it to happen?
13. Why is the Bush administration so strongly against
a real investigation into the events of 9-11?
14. Why did the US give 43 million dollars to
Afghanistan back in May or June of 2001
15. Why did Bush toss the Hart-Rudman terror security
study (developed over a 2 year period) and instead
assign responsibility to Cheney and FEMA?
16. Why did Ashcroft stops flying commercial, citing
an unidentified "threat" in July 2001?
Why did the FBI and Justice not identify the form,
origin and time of the threat?
17. Why did Bush stay in Texas for the month of August
and Cheney in Wyoming?
18. Why no photos or videos of the Pentagon plane? And
there's not a single credible frame of film or second
of video of this? Also, why hasn't a similar flight
path graphic ever been published?
19. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of
the classroom a half-second after Andy Card told him,
"Mr. pResident, the nation is under attack"?
20. Why did they leave him exposed to danger for two
and a half minutes in the classroom and another
half-hour in the school before he returned to the
relative safety of Air Force One?
21. Where was George H. W. Bush at the time of the
attacks?
22. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the
flights tell people on the ground that the highjackers
had "box cutters"?
23. Where are the flight recorders?
24. How did they find a passport that just "happens"
to belong to one of the hijackers in the WTC rubble
and they can't locate even ONE flight recorder?
25. Why no investigative reporting of the Pentagon
scene? The photos do not show much, but then
photographers were not allowed, initially, to
photograph the scene, if I remember correctly.
26. Why was the series of recommendations Al Gore also
put together in 1996 on airport security called by
Republican congress "paranoid" and too harsh. Why did
the airline industry, lobbying against it, consider it
too expensive and impractical.
27. Why was the Hart-Rudman report on the potential
dangers of terrorism in the homeland. The results of
the research ignored by Bush?
28. Why were FISA warrants disallowed by Bush?
29. Why did the US pull the plug on Muslim websites
Monday September 10, 2001?
30. Why did the Saudi bin-Laden-group have a website
with a PRE-SET expiration date of Sept. 11, 2001?
31. Why were the bin Ladens flown out of the U.S. on
private jets the day after the 9/11?
32. Why did Cheney say that everyone in the White
House started taking Cipro on September 12 when the
first anthrax letter wasn't postmarked until September
18. 33. Why did Bush dissolve the Bin Laden Task
Force? What would have happened had this focused and
knowledgeable group been in place 9 months before 911?
34. Why was metallic debris found 8 miles from the
crash site of the plane that went down in Penn? They
said it went straight down and left a small hole in
the ground. If they found metallic debris from the
plane 8 miles away it was either shot down or a bomb
exploded in the plane.
35. Why did they not let the media or any reporters
take video or photos of the crash site?

[gtownspur]

And people still wonder why the political forum has gone to shit.
:wakeup


I'm tired of you dipshit conspiracy theorist.

IF you're asking the questions concerning the validity of the WTC demise, then ask somebody who will give you an awnser you want,...

Like another conspiracy theorist or a pack of Vagina scented breahmints, or a Midget pseudo -computer- savy -Pearl Light beer- bloated drunkard who has nothing better to do than to act like a pompous ass, by asking questions he already knows the awnsers to, under the guise of being sincere.

[gtownspur]

I dare any of you asshats to answer one of these questions.


1. Why didn't jets intercept the airliners since they
had numerous warnings of terrorist attacks?
2. Why did Ashcroft stop flying commercial, citing an
unidentified "threat" in July 2001?
3. Why were there no photos or videos of the Pentagon
plane?
4. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of
the classroom?
5. Where was George H. W. Bush at the time of the
attacks?
6. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the
flights all use the term boxcutters?
7. Where are the flight recorders?
8. Why were the FISA warrants discontinued?
9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live
camera?
10 Why was security meeting scheduled for
9/11cancelled by WTC management on 9/10?
11. How did they come up with the "culprits" so
quickly?
12. How did they find the terrorist's cars at the
airports so quickly?
13. Why did Shrub dissolve the Bin Laden Task Force?
14. Why the strange pattern of debris from Flight 93?
15. Why was no plane seen at the Pentagon?
16. How extensive was the relationship between the
Taliban, the ISI and the CIA?
17. What exactly was the role of Henry Kissinger at
UNOCAL?
18. When was it decided to cancel building a pipeline
from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan?
19. When was the decision made to send the FEMA to New
York?
20. Why did FEMA spokesman Tom Kenney tell Dan Rather
he was in New York on Sept. 10?
21. Why did the FBI in 1996 close the files to
investigate Osama bin Laden's relatives in Washington?
22. Why did .Bush stop inquiries into terrorist
connections of the Bin Laden family in early 2001?
23. Who made the decision to have John O'Neill stop
investigating Al-qeada accounts?
24. Who gave the decision to give him a security job
at the World Trade Center?
25. Did John O'Neill meet anyone of the FEMA in the
night of September 10th?
26. What about media reports that hijackers bought
tickets for flights scheduled after Sept. 11?
27. Why did none of the 19 hijackers appeared on the
passenger lists?
28. Why would devout Muslims frequent bars, drink
alcoholic beverages and leave their bibles?
29. Why would the hijackers use credit cards and allow
drivers licenses with photos to be zeroxed?
30. Why did the hijackers force passengers to call
relatives?
31. How did the hijackers change the flight plan
without law enforcement or the military try to stop
them?
32. Which hijacker's passport was found in the WTC
rubble? Who found it and what time?
33. How could the FBI distinguish between "regular"
Muslims and hijacker Muslims on those flights?
34. Why was there not one "innocent" Muslim on board
any of these flights?
35. Did someone go through the passenger lists looking
for Muslim names and label them as hijackers?

MOHAMMED ATTA

36. Did the Florida police provide information that
Atta was searched because of 1)an expired Visa, 2)
driving a car without a license, 3) because of an
incident at Miami Airport?
37. Why did Atta leave his bag at the airport and the
employees didn't put it on board?
38. Who found his bag? How can we be sure it it was
his bag?
39. Why did Atta place a video "how to fly planes", a
uniform and his last will into his bag, knowing that
he would commit suicide?
40. Why did Atta leave his drivers license in a rental
car?
41. When did Atta train on a flight simulator?
42. Did Atta leave the US while in training and then
return?
43. Why did Atta decide to study at Opa Locka, a
famous hub of 6 Navy training bases and includes
government partners like U.S. Coast Guard Air Station,
Police (Miami-Dade) Aviation Unit?
44. Why was Atta allowed to study since he was stopped
by the police for driving without a license and also
for violating his visa?

THE BLACK BOXES AND CRASH VIDEO

45. Why were the Black Boxes never recovered ?
46. Why didn't the FBI release the air traffic
controller's protocols?
47. Why did the FBI not release the Flight Data
Recorder info?
48. Who video-recorded the first plane hitting the
tower? Why did he disappear from the media?

THE HIJACKERS

49. How did the FBI receive a tip from a passenger who
boarded a different plane and reached his destination
safely that he had a confrontation with two ME men at
the Logan airport in Boston?
50. Who tipped the FBI to storm the Westin Hotel in
Boston on September 12th?
51. Where did the photos of all 19 hijackers come
from?
52. How were all hijackers identified just 2 days
after the attack?
53. Why did all 19 names not appear on the passenger
list 2 days after the hijacker list was released?
54. Why do none of the names appear on the passenger
lists UA and AA gave to CNN?
55. How could the hijackers disable the defense
systems?
56. Why did the FBI ignore Bin Laden's family, who
left the United States without further investigation
57. What about the supposed hijackers who are still
alive?
58. Was there a reason to change the list of the
original 19 hijackers?
59. What happened to Ayub Ali Khan and Mohammed Jaweed
Azmath, who have been in jail since
September 2001, because of possession of box cutters
on a train?Who gave the tip to arrest them?
60. Why did it take 4 months before Ramsi Binalschibhs
name was mentioned, since he was a good friend of
Mohammad Atta and lived in his apartment in Hamburg?
61. Why did it take 4 months until December 11 to
charge Zacarias Moussaoui for the 9/11 attacks when
his case was known worldwide for months, but not
mentioned in the American media?
62. Whatever happened with Lotfi Raissi, who was
arrested in UK for teaching the terrorist pilots?
63. What is the current status of the investigation of
Mamoun Darkazanli Import-Export-Company in Hamburg and
Al Taqwa Management Organisation in Lugano?
64. Why was Richard Reid able to enter the Paris
airport twice and who paid for his hotel?
65. Who hired Zacarias Masspoui to learn how to fly
passenger jets in the United States?
66. Why did the FBI or CIA fail to interrogate him
between August and December 2001?

BIN LADEN

67. Did the CIA monitor Bin Laden in 1998 with the
help of 15 Afghan agents, paid $1,000/ month?
68. Where are these agents? Was Johnny "Mike" Spann
one? Was John Walker Lindh one?
69. Is an Afghan agent a member of the ISI? Is an
Afghan agent working for Bin Laden?
70. When was the first time Tenet mentioned the
Al-Quaeda group to any member of the Senate?
71. Why did the Pentagon release a new video version
or translation of the Bin Laden Home video?
72. Why it was released only 8 hours after translation
by the German magazine MONITOR on December ?
73. Why were the four translators prior US-Government
workers?
74. When was the Bin Laden Home Video found and who
found it?
75. Who found the video if Northern Alliance and US
troops had not yet arrived in Kandahar or Jahalabad?
76. Does the timestamp on the Bin Laden video indicate
that it was found two weeks after it was produced?
77. Why was the public not informed who found the
video and when?
78. Why according to MONITOR magazine, were the most
controversial statements translated incorrectly?
79. Why was the video released?
80. Who gave the final decision to release it?
81. Why is the Bin Laden video of June 2001 in which
he praised the attack, available on the Internet?
82. What about Bin Laden's statements on Al-Jazeera in
June 2001 about the bombing of USS Cole, which are
similar to the statements on the November 2001 home
video?
83. Why did Bin Laden state in Umman Magazine in Sept.
2001, that he was not involved in the WTC?
84. Is Bin Laden still on the payroll of the CIA or
ISI?
85. Did the Bin Laden Group Inc. help build ToraBora
with the CIA?
86. What was the purpose of the meeting with General
Pervez Musharraf in May 2001?
87. Why was a statement released that Al-Khalifa bin
Laden, who is not the mother of Bin Laden, had a
telephone call with Bin Laden on September 9, rather
than Alia Ghanem, his mother? Why did Alia Ghanem say
she did not believe he planned the attack?

ANTHRAX AND MICROBIOLOGIST DEATHS

100. What happened on September 18th, when an employee
of Batelle Memorial Institute was involved in a
so-called anthrax hoax on that day? Was he arrested?
101. Why did the investigation of that case begin in
December 2001?
102. What was in the memo of Dr. Leonard Horowitz, a
public health consumer advocate and author of "Death
in the Air" on October 1, 2001, almost two weeks
before the first anthrax letter was sent from Trenton
to the American media building in Boca Raton?
103.What about his letter of Nov. 13 in which he
claimed that BAYER is behind the anthrax infections?
104. Did US BioDefense laboratories send the
anthrax-laced letters to get a new budget for
research?
105. What about the statement of former UN-weapons
inspector of Iraq, Richard Spertzel, who told ABC,
"...he knows only five scientists in the USA who would
be in the situation to produce such a fine, highly
developed spore material"?
106. Why did it take 48 hours to inform Bob Stevens
that he had anthrax?
107. Why were envelopes never found near Bob Stevens,
Amelie Lundgren and Mia Nguyen?
108. How come Microsoft got a hoax anthrax letter from
Malaysia on the same day that President Bush said
Malaysia might be one of the next targets of the
United States?
109. Why did the FBI never investigate the case Don
Wiley, a Bioscientist who disappeared 11/13/01?
110. Why did the FBI begin to investigate after his
body was found on December 22, 300 miles away?
Was there an investigation at the military hydro plant
where workers found him?
Why did the media write different versions about how,
when and where he was found?
Why did the police report change 2 months later from
suicide to an accident?
111. What was the goal of Bioport in 1997?
112.Did development of anti-anthrax vaccines begin in
1998?
113.When did Bioport decide to produce anthrax
vaccines?
114. Was it before or after Sept. 1998 that Admiral
Crowe was put in charge of investigations of the
August 7, 1998 bombings of Embassy Nairobi and Embassy
Dar Es Salaam?
115. Did the schedule for developing anti-anthrax
vaccines begin starting in 1998?
116. When did the US Government ask Bayer for help in
developing a vaccine?
117. When did Bayer start sending the vaccines to the
U.S.?
118. When did Bayer double production of the vaccines?
119. Was the death of Vladimir Pasechnik investigated?
He was former director of the Institute of Ultra Pure
Biochemical Preparations of the Soviet bio-warfare
establishment Biopreparat in November 2001?
120. How are the deaths of scientists Robert M.
Schwartz, Dr. Benito Que and Set Van Nguyen explained
since all occurred in the same month? Is Set van
Nguyen related to the anthrax victim Mia Nguyen?
121. What about the death of Nancy Sonnenfeld
(FEMA-Wife)?
122. Why was the NJ Division of Fish and Wildlife
examining Anthrax in August 2000?
123. Do any employees in Trenton have the same
handwriting as printed on the Anthrax envelopes?
124. Is it just a coincidence that the laboratory is
also based in Trenton?
125. Did the FBI ever ask Fort Detrick to examine
anthrax spores?
126. What about the list of 15-20 labs (maintained by
Barbara Rosenzweig) who used Fort Detrick spores?
127. Does the CIA have spores different from those at
Fort Detrick?
128. Why did Tommy Thompson, The Secretary of the
Department of Health and Human Services,
and other Bush cabinet members meet secretly (i.e.
illegally) in Oct. 2001 with officials of the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America
(PhRMA) to develop plans for their Emergency
Preparedness Task Force?
129. Why did he decide on October 25, 2001 to ask
Congress for another $500 million to produce Acambis's
smallpox vaccine?
130. Why did it take 4.5 hours until Jean Marie
Malecki , Director Palm Beach County Health
Department, picked up the phone for employees of the
AMI-Building, Boca Raton. This is where editor Bob
Stevens got anthrax. Why did she wait two days before
she visited that building again?
131. Did Walter Gilbert, Director Myriad Genetics ever
get official permission from relatives of those killed
at WTC to examine their DNA?

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES

150. Why did General Mahmud Ahmad, former head of the
ISI quit his position?
151. Why did retaliation against the Taliban begin the
day he stepped down?
152. Who in the ISI paid $100.000 to Mohammad Atta?
153. Why does Ahmad think that another secret service
was involved in the WTC attack?
Which Secret Service was he referring to? Did other
ISI official's believe that? Did officials of the CIA
believe that? Did some officials of the Mossad believe
that?
154. What was the purpose of Ahmad's visit to
Washington on 9/11?
155. Who told Russian Foreign Minister Ivanov to abort
an air strike against Afghanistan in May 2000?
156. Did Russian intelligence notify the CIA in 2001
that 25 terrorist pilots had been training for suicide
missions, as reported in the Russian press?

KISSINGER

1. What did Kissinger mean that an "outside threat
from beyond", a "world government" and "individual
rights" who are "willingly relinquished for the
guarantee of their well-being granted", what you
mentioned in 1991 on a Bilderberg Conference?
2. What was his role at UNOCAL?
3. Is he in contact with representatives of these
companies or institutions:
4. What did he discuss at the Bilderberg meeting last
year in May 2001?
5. What was the purpose of his meeting with Moscow
Mayor Yuri Luzhkov in July 2001?
6. Why does he write in "Toward a New Diplomacy for
the 21st Century" that America doesn't need a Foreign
Policy?
7. When was the last time Henry Kissinger met
US-Ambassador in Pakistan, Robert Oakley?

THE PURCHASE OF AIRLINE PUT OPTIONS

1. Is it true that the CIA is in possession of PROMIS
software?
2. What is the purpose of PROMIS?
3. Did A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard, CIA, own any stocks of
United Airlines, American Airlines, Merrill Lynch, 4.
Morgan Stanley, AXA Re (insurance) which owns 25% of
American Airlines, and Munich Re.?
5. What is his connection to Alex Brown, Deutsche
Bank?
6. Did he give any insider information about to George
Tenet, CIA?
7. Who was the investor who purchased 2,000 UAL put
options between August and September 11, 2001?
8. Did Deutsche Bank-Alex Brown own any stocks of UA,
AA, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AXA Re (insurance)
which owns 25% of American Airlines, and Munich Re?
9. What about the 2,500 UA-contracts which were "split
into 500 chunks each, directing each order to
different U.S. exchanges around the country
simultaneously." on August 10, 2001?
10. Did Deutsche purchase UAL options in August 2001?
11. Why did DB-AB purchase 4,744 put options on United
Air Lines stock as opposed to only 396 call s on
September 6-7? What was the purpose of doing that?
12. What is the connection to Wally Kromgaard?
13. Did Deutsche Bank or Wally Kromgaard purchase
4,516 put options on American Airlines as compared to
748 call options on September 10?
14. What was the reason of Mayo Shattuck III
re-asssignment on September 15th?

THE TALIBAN AND THE CARPET OF GOLD..

1. When was the last time they met any representatives
of the US-Government?
2. What was the purpose of these meetings?
3. Do the Taliban know Karl E. Inderfurth and State
Department counterterrorism chief Michael Sheehan?
4. Do they know which US-Representative said in
February 2001: "Either you accept our offer of a
carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of
bombs"?
5. When was the last time the Taliban was in touch
with this representative?
6. Did Abdul Haq, the former Mujahedin leader executed
Sept 2001 by the Taliban, decide in Winter 2000 to
attack the Taliban?
7. Did production of opium in Afghanistan fall from
3276 tonnes in 2000 to 185 tonnes in 2001?

GLOBAL HAWK TECHNOLOGY

1. Was Global Hawk technology able to remotelycontrol
unmanned planes in 1999 for 27 hours?
2. Did Northrop-Grumman use Global Hawk technology in
the war in Afghanistan since October 2001?
3. What is the purpose of unmanned technology?
4. Is Northrup in contact with any engineers of
Boeing?
5. Did Northrup install Global Hawk technology in a
commercial airplane?

CARRIER AND TROOP MOVEMENTS BEFORE SEPT 11

1. Did two U.S. carrier battle groups arrive in the
Gulf of Arabia just off the Pakistani coast before
9/11?
2. Did 17,000 U.S. troops join more than 23,000 NATO
troops in Egypt for Operation 'Bright Star' on 9/11?
What was the purpose of both of these operations?

BIOCHEMICAL WARFARE

1. When did Tommy Franks learn that he would use
Thermobarics in ToraBora?
2. Does he know if it had been tested on December 12
in Nevada?
3. Who told Franks that Bin Laden might hide in
ToraBora?
4. Is the main purpose of Thermobarics to destroy
buried bio and chemical stocks?
5. Was Thermobarics developed for the purpose to use
one day in Iraq?
6. When was the first time Franks used Thermobarics?
Was it before or after the announcement of the end of
ABM Treaty on December 11?
7. When did the US decide to use B61-11, the "nuclear
version" of its "conventional" BLU-113 counterpart?
8. Why has the NSA destroyed data collected on
Americans or US companies since the Sept. 11 attacks?

ABORTED ATTEMPTS TO GET BIN-LADEN

1. Why did Clinton abort an attack on Bin Laden in
October 1999?
2. Who was responsible for that operation?
3. Why was the operation put on hold?
4. Why did Musharraf halt a covert operation to attack
Bin Laden in October 1999?
5. Why did the GOP in Congress stop almost every move
Clinton made against terrorism? They refused to
believe reports and pass necessary legislation. In
1996 Clinton proposed a very extensive anti-terrorism
regulation.

RICHARD REID

1. Who hired Richard Reid to threaten a passenger
plane in Paris?
2. Who did he send an email to in Pakistan?
3. Has he ever been in touch with the ISI or CIA?
4. Did he know the difference between an explosive and
a detonator?
5. How many ounces did he have in his shoes?
6. What size are his shoes?
7. Who build or prepared his shoes?

JOHN WALKER LINDH

1. Has John Walker Lindh ever been in touch with the
CIA?
2. Did he ever work for the CIA?
3. Who arrested him in 2001?
4. Why didn't he escape in the tumult to nearby
Masar-e-Sharif?
5. Who hired his lawyer, Richard Brohanan? Who paid
his lawyer?
6. Why didn't he go to Guantanamo Bay?

DICK CHENEY

1. When did Cheney stop working for Halliburton?
2. Is he still in possession of any Halliburton stock?
3. Is he still in contact with Halliburton?
4. Was Halliburton invited to an oil conference in May
2002?
5. Does Cheney know when that meeting was planned?
6. Did Cheney have influence concerning Halliburton
contracts with the Pentagon?
7. What exactly did Cheney decide to do on September
11th?
8. Did he speak with an Air Force Commander or Lt.
Gen. Charles F. Wald on that day?
9. When did he inform the president about the hijacked
airplanes on September 11?
10. Who called the White House on September 11 at 9:30
PM about a possible threat?
11. Why was no air security at the White House or the
Pentagon at 9:30 PM?
12. When and who gave the approval to evacuate the
White House at 9:45 PM?
13. What was the purpose of a meeting with Indian
opposition leader Sonia Gandhi in June 2001 about a
multimillion-dollar debt owed to Enron from a major
energy project in Indian Power Plants?
14. When was the last time Cheney spoke with anyone
from ENRON?

COLIN POWELL

1. What was the role of Colin Powell?
2. Who decided to give $43 million in aid to the
Taliban regime in May 2001?
3. Did he know that production of opium in Afghanistan
fell from 3276 tonnes in 2000 to 185 in 2001?
4. What was the purpose of his decision to treat the
Taliban prisoners as War Prisoners? Is this decision
in any way related to media reports 2 days earlier
that Powell may have been involved in negotiations
with Indian Power Plants?
5. What was the purpose of his short trip to Latin
America on September 11?
6. Who decided that he fly to Latin America on that
day?
7. Why would someone threaten him in Afghanistan on
January 17, 2002 as Newsweek reported?
8. What was the purpose of Powell meeting with India's
foreign minister on April 6, 2001?
9. Did Enron or Cheney ask Powell to help collect a
$64 million debt on an Indian plant project?

GEORGE H.W. BUSH

1. When was the last time George H.W. Bush traveled to
South Arabia on behalf of the Carlyle Group?
2. What was the purpose of that meeting?

THOMAS WHITE

1. Is Thomas White still in contact with ENRON?
2. Did his contact at anytime influence his decisions?
3. Does he still own ENRON stocks?

DELMART VREELAND

1. Did Vreeland warn Canadian Intelligence in May 2001
about possible terrorist attacks on New York and the
Pentagon?
2. Did he place the warning in an envelope while in
prison in Toronto, Canada?
3. Where did he get his information?
4. Whom did he give the envelope to?
5. Why was he placed in jail?

SAUDI-BINLADIN-GROUP.COM

1.Was the domain created on September 11th, 2000?
2. Who paid for that domain?
3. Are they also owners of Iridium Satellites?
4. When did they end contact with relatives of the
Bush family?

THE CARLYLE GROUP

1. When was the last time George H.W. Bush traveled to
Saudi Arabia on behalf of the privately owned Carlyle
Group, the 11th largest defense contractor in the
U.S.?
2. What was the purpose of that meeting?
3. When did he resign from Carlyle Group?
4. Is he still in touch with any of their
representatives?

STEPHEN LANDER, Director MI5

1. Did Lander monitor a phone conversation between
Zacarias Moussaoui and Richard Reid in Dec. 2000?
2. What did Lander tell representatives of the CIA
about Zacarias Moussaoui?
3. Why did he stop monitoring Djamel Beghal, member of
Takfir-wal-Hijra (financed by Osama bin Laden) in
August 2001?

BIN LADEN IN DUBAI

1. Did Bin Laden in July 2001 enter an American
hospital in Dubai?
2. Did he arrive on July 4, 2001 on a flight from
Qetta, Pakistan to American Hospital?
3. Was he at the hospital July 4-11, 2001?
4. Did Bernard Koval, CEO of American Hospital, ever
speak with Doctor Terry Callaway about that visit?
5. Why did he change his statements about this story
not being true and that he "asked around"?
6. What is the difference between Continuous
Ambulatory Peritoneal Dialysis and Continuous Cycling
Peritoneal Dialysis?
7. Did Koval know Larry Stevens?
8. Can Koval explain why Richard Labeviere, author of
"Terror Dollars" (about illegal Al-Quaeda accounts),
wrote the story about Osama Bin Laden's kidney
operation?

GEORGE W. BUSH

1. What exactly happened on September 11 and at what
time was President Bush informed?
2. Why was President Bush scheduled to visit a school
in Florida?
3. Who scheduled the time of the visit?
4. When exactly did Bush learn about the first crash
into the WTC?
5. How could he have seen that on TV?
6. Why didn't he interrupt his school meeting as soon
as he learned of the first plane crash?
7. Did Bush ever wonder how Bin Laden was able to hear
the first plane crash live on the radio?
8. Which radio station he was listening to?
9. Can Bush explain how Bin Laden's Home Video was
found only two weeks after it was produced?
10. Why did Bush decide to release Bin Laden's Home
Video?
11. What is the purpose of the Western Hemisphere
Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC) in Fort
Benning, Georgia, where terrorists have been trained
for undercover agents in South America?
Bush stated "if any government sponsors the outlaws
and killers of innocents, they have become outlaws and
murderers themselves". So what does he think about
Fort Benning?
12. What is the role of Zalmay Khalilzad (former
UNOCAL) in the National Security Council ?
13. What is the current role of Zalmay Khalilzad
(former UNOCAL) in Afghanistan?
14. When was Bush's last contact with anyone from
ENRON?
15. Why was China admitted to the WTO on September 13
after 15 years of unsuccessful attempts?
16. Why did Bush postpone the release of Ronald
Reagan's records?
17. How does Bush feel about the need to investigate
the CIA's mistakes?
18. Does Bush agree with senators John McCain, Joseph
I. Lieberman, Porter J. Goss, former C.I.A.
clandestine case officer and a Florida Republican,
Richard C. Shelby and Ron Paul, US Congressman, who
want an investigation and have said "Secret government
is winning out over open government"?
19. Did he know before he left his hotel that morning
on the way to the school that the 1st tower had been
hit?ABC news reported that morning that he was asked
by reporters if he was aware of events in NYC and he
answered yes. If so, why did he later say he first
heard of it was when he was at the school?
20. Why did Bush continue to sit in that classroom
reading to children when he should have been
conferring with his advisors?
21. Why did Bush say that he and Card initially
thought it was an accident involving a small plane?
22. Given all the information sources available to the
POTUS and his staff how could his people not have
known the kind of plane involved?
23. Why didn't they know at this point, as did the FAA
and NORAD, that aircraft were hijacked?
The Batallion Chief in the 9/11 video was seen and
heard asking for military backup immediately after the
building was hit.
24.How come the NYFD knew it was terrorism right away
but the POTUS and his aides just calmly went about
their business?

TONY BLAIR

1. Were 25,000 British troops and the largest British
Armada since the Falkland Islands War, part of
Operation 'Essential Harvest' pre-positioned in Oman,
the closest point on the Arabian Peninsula to Pakistan
before September 11, 2001?
2. When did he begin to place SIS-Special Forces in
Afghanistan? Why?

THE SUN-SENTINEL

1. Did Gloria Irish own unit 1504 at the Delray
Racquet Club, 755 Dotterel?
2. Did she rent that property to Hamza Alghamdi in
August 2001?
3. Why did the media not report about a connection of
the Sun-Sentinel and the hijackers?
4. Why did it first appear that the hijackers had
something to do with the anthrax attacks?
5. Why has this connection or coincidence never
appeared in the media again?
6. What was the connection between husband Michael
Irish (SunSentinel) and Bob Stevens (who died from
Anthrax)?

WARNINGS

1. When did Vladimir Putin warn the CIA about a
possible terrorist attack and what was their reaction?
2. What was the purpose of the meeting between
Christina Rocca, director of Asian affairs at the
State Department and the Taliban ambassador Mollah
Abdul Salam Zaeef in Islamabad in August 2001?
3. Why did she oversee the delivery of Stinger
missiles in the 80s to Afghan mujaheddin?
4. Did Walid Arkeh in Seminole County jail inform the
FBI in August 2001 about an attack on America? What
was the reaction of the FBI?
5. Why did Dr. Jeffrey Starr, U.S. department of
defense, visit Tajikistan in Jan 2001?
6. When did Jean-Claude Cousseran, Director DGSE ,
French Secret Service inform the CIA about terrorist
attacks on America? What was their reaction?
7. What does he know about the monitoring of Djamel
Beghal, member of Takfir-wal-Hijra (financed by Osama
bin Laden) and Kamel Daoudi? Did he ever inform the
CIA about that? And when?
8. When did Italian Deputy Prime Minister Gianfranco
Fini inform the CIA about a possible attack on the
American president "with the use of an airplane"? What
was their reaction?
9. When did President Mubarak, Egypt, inform the CIA
about a possible attack on America with an "airplane
stuffed with explosives"? What was their reaction?
10. When did Efraim Halevy , Director of Mossad since
1998 (unconfirmed) inform the CIA about a possible
attack with "200 terrorists" on America? What was
their reaction?
11. Is it true he warned Ariel Sharon not to travel to
New York on September 11 to speak at a festival?
12. Did a caller to Loxley Banks, Director Radio
Cayman Islands talk show, give several warnings of an
imminent attack on the U.S on Sept. 3 -10?
13. The London Times reported that someone from the
FAA warned Salman Rushdie not to travel to the United
States on September 3rd? If this is true, who was it?
14. Did the FBI investigate the two men who met
Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi in Harry's Bar at
the Helmsley Hotel in Manhattan on September 8, 2001?
15. Who does Abdullah Abdullah (Northern Alliance)
believe killed Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud on
September 9, 2001?
16. When and why did he decide to attack Kabul on
September 11 at 5:30 PM?
17. When did he decide to invade Masar-i-Scharif
18. Did the CIA helped him provoke a tumult?
19. Did he ever meet John Walker Lindh?
20. Why was Major John Kenny, Commander Wright
Patterson Air Base, Dayton placedon high alert on
September 10? Did he inform companies in Dayton to
shutdown their offices?
21. Why was Colonel William M. Dietrick , Commander
Defense Language Institute in Garrison, Monterey on
high alert on September 10?
22. Why did one of Kenneth (Ken) Weinbrecht (President
SAMS ) executives say on September 10, that he was a
'Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to
target US forces and make it look like a
Palestinian/Arab act.'"
23. Did Jean-Louis Bruguiere, French anti-terrorism,
inform the CIA on September 10 about a possible
terrorist attack? If so, what was their reaction?
24. Why did Atta and hijacker Abdulaziz Alomari checke
into a Portland, Maine motel (unidentified) on
September 10?
25. Why was the Portland, Airport, according to
eye-witnesses, in full charge of more military
officials and soldiers than usual, weeks before
September 11, 2001?
26. Why, as the San Francisco Chronicle reported, was
Mayor Brown warned to be "cautious in your travel" the
night of September 10? Who warned him?
27. Why did Alex Diamandis, Odigo Vice President of
Sales and Marketing, receive a warning on his
messenger service about a possible attack on America
on September 11, 2001? At which time?
28. When did Dr.August Hanning , President BND
(Bundesnachrichtendienst Germany) inform the CIA that
"Middle Eastern terrorists are 'planning to hijack
commercial aircraft ?" What was their reaction?
Did he allow an Iranian prisoner in Hamburg call to
the CIA in Summer 2001 about an attack on America?
What was their reaction?

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL/GLOBAL HAWK

1. Why did Kenneth Waldie, Stanley Hall, Herbert Homer
and Peter Gay of Raytheon travel on Sept. 11? 2. 2.
Can Global Hawk technology be used for at least 27
hours?
3. Is Global Hawk technology used in commercial
airplanes?
4. Did Danielle O'Brien, air traffic controller,
inform another air traffic control center about a
plane traveling fast southwest of Dulles after
spotting it 8:18 AM on September 11?
5. Who was informed and what happened?

THE PENNSYLVANIA CRASH

1. Why didn't Dr. James G. Roche, Secretary of the Air
Force try to reach the airplanes in NYC (7 minutes
time for McGuire AFB in New Jersey ) and at the
Pentagon (10 minutes time)?
2. Did Roche ever try to shutdown the plane in
Pennsylvania?
3. Can Roche explain why magazines of that plane were
found 20 miles away from the crash?
Andrews AFB is 13 miles away. He had one hour and
fifteen minutes to respond to the plane that hit the
Pentagon. What happened during that time?
4. Can he explain why many ear- and eye witnesses,
including workers of the road construction company New
Enterprise saw or heard F-16 jets ?
5. Why did President Bush say only one week later that
he tried to shutdown that plane?
6. Who gave that decision?

DEFENSE ALERTS AND MOVEMENTS

1. Why did George Bush leave Barksdale Air Force Base
aboard Air Force One and flew to an Air Force base in
Nebraska on 1:48 PM on September 11 and returned to
Washington at 4:30 PM?
2. What exactly did Donald Rumsfeld do that day before
he arrived at the Pentagon around 3:55 PM?
3. How did Rumsfeld know at 5:30 PM on September 11
that the plane in Pennsylvania could have been headed
for one of three possible targets: Camp David, the
White House or the U.S. Capitol building?
4. Can he explain why early media reports told us that
no squadrons of combat-ready fighter jets have been at
Andrews and later changed their reports that they
haven't been on high alert only?
5. Why was Air Force Lt. Col. Vic Warzinski, another
Pentagon spokesman, so sure on September 11 that
aircraft was coming your way?
6. What did the D.C. Air National Guard in Washington
do on September 11?
7. Can he explain what those 3 fighters did from
9:40AM until 9:55AM when they finally turned towards
Flight 93 and were 60 miles out at 10:06am?
8. Can he explain why Air Traffic Controllers in a
Nashua Telegraph article did report an F-16 was
circling Flight 93 and was in visual range at the time
of crash?
9. Can he confirm a witness report that National Guard
F-16's have been at Hancock field in Syracuse NY in
the air early that morning before 9AM?
10. How could the hijackers know how to disable
defense systems?
11. What was the official reason that fighters of the
305th Air Wing, McGuire Air Force Base, NJ did not
intercept the 2nd hijacked plane in NYC? This would
have been possible within 7 minutes after 8:48 AM
12. Why did none of the 459th Aircraft Squadron
(Andrews AFB) fighters intercept the plane which
crashed into the Pentagon? Andrews AFB is 10 miles
from Washington DC.
13. Col. Ken McClellan, Air Force spokesman said on
September 11, that Mohammad Atta attended the
International Officer's School at Maxwell/Gunter Air
Force Base in Montgomery, and was seen by
eye-witnesses? What was McClellan doing there? Why did
he later deny the report?
14. Why did he decide not to shutdown ECHELON base Bad
Aibling in Germany as planned for 2002?
15. What is the reason that none of any Air Force
fighters reached the hijacked plane in time?
16. Many eye- and witnesses think that the plane in
Pennsylvania was shot down. What is the scientific
explanation why the magazine of the airplane was found
many miles away?
17. Why did Jack Kelly, idefense.com, inform USA Today
only 12 minutes after the first crash (8:48AM), that
terror groups using Web encryption may have been
responsible? And why was he so sure before the second
crash at 9:03 PM?
18. Did Kelly serve with the U.S. government where he
managed several significant programs for the
information warfare and intelligence communities?
19. Did Joseph J. Esposito, Chief of NYPD try to
contact the Pentagon at 9:06 AM on September 11? What
was their reaction?
10. Why didn't General Elwood "Pete" Quesada of the
FAA inform President Bush between 8:15 and 9:05 about
four simultaneously hijacked planes? Who did he inform
and what was their reaction?

THE WTC COLLAPSE

1. What does Nicholas Scoppetta of FDNY know about the
latest reports of the WTC destruction?
2. Can he explain why many witnesses saw and heard
more than two explosions in the WTC?
3. Can he explain why both Twin Towers and Building 7
collapsed in that way?
4. Can he explain why a gas tank was in Building 7?
5. Can he explain why there were no passengers in the
subway under the WTC?
6. Can he explain why there was no guard at the gold
reservoir under the WTC?
7. Why did Dr. Jeffrey P. Koplan, Director CDC
prepare, as CNN reported, emergency-response teams on
September 11 at 11:16 PM?

MISCELLANEOUS

1. When did Dr.August Hanning , President BND
(Bundesnachrichtendienst Germany) inform the CIA that
"Middle Eastern terrorists are 'planning to hijack
commercial aircraft ?" What was their reaction?
Did he allow an Iranian prisoner in Hamburg call to
the CIA in Summer 2001 about an attack on America?
What was their reaction?
2. When did Tayseer Allouni , Kabul correspondent
Al-Jazeera, receive his first video from Bin Laden?
Can he explain why the first video on October 7 2001,
the day of the retaliation, looked like it was
recorded in the morning?
3. Did Tom Simmons (former U.S. Ambassador to
Pakistan), Karl Inderfurth (former Assistant Secretary
of State for South Asian affairs) and Lee Coldren
(former State Department expert on South Asia) decide
or announce in a July 2001 meeting that an attack was
planned on the Taliban in October 2001?
4. Why did Ms. Barbara Bodine, US ambassador to Yemen
stop John O'Neill from investigating Al-Quaeda
accounts in July 2001?
5. Did Niaz Niak, former Pakistani Foreign Secretary
say in mid July 2001 that the USA planned military
action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban?
6. Did Hameed Gul, retired Pakistani general of
Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence, say that a
secret service was involved in the attack on America?
7. Why did Tommy Thompson, The Secretary of the
Department of Health and Human Services,
and other Bush cabinet members meet secretly (i.e.
illegally) in Oct. 2001 with officials of the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America
(PhRMA) to develop plans for their Emergency
Preparedness Task Force? Why did he decide on October
25, 2001 to ask Congress for another $500 million to
produce Acambis's smallpox vaccine?
8. Why did it take 4.5 hours until Jean Marie Malecki
, Director Palm Beach County Health Department, picked
up the phone for employees of the AMI-Building, Boca
Raton. This is where editor Bob Stevens got anthrax.
Why did she wait two days before she visited that
building again?
9. Why did Mayor Guilani sell WTC rubble to India for
recycling and also China? Who made that decision?
10. What was the purpose of U.S. Ambassador Wendy
Chamberlain's phone call on October 10, 2001 to the
Pakistani oil minister? Why was she sure that a
previously abandoned Unocal pipeline from Turkmenistan
across Afghanistan to the Pakistani coast for the
purpose of selling oil and gas to China, was back on
the table in view of recent geopolitical developments?
11. What exactly was found on Z. Moussaoui's computer
after 9/11, when local agents were given a Federal
Intelligence Security Act (FISA) warrant, which they
had requested six weeks previously?
This ties directly into the question of the
administration's dealings with the Taliban, its
reluctance to investigate Saudi nationals, etc.
12. Why the attack on Cynthia McKinney for asking: 1)
why has there been no investigation of the 9-11
attack? and 2) did Bush/CIA/NSA know of it beforehand,
and allow it to happen?
13. Why is the Bush administration so strongly against
a real investigation into the events of 9-11?
14. Why did the US give 43 million dollars to
Afghanistan back in May or June of 2001
15. Why did Bush toss the Hart-Rudman terror security
study (developed over a 2 year period) and instead
assign responsibility to Cheney and FEMA?
16. Why did Ashcroft stops flying commercial, citing
an unidentified "threat" in July 2001?
Why did the FBI and Justice not identify the form,
origin and time of the threat?
17. Why did Bush stay in Texas for the month of August
and Cheney in Wyoming?
18. Why no photos or videos of the Pentagon plane? And
there's not a single credible frame of film or second
of video of this? Also, why hasn't a similar flight
path graphic ever been published?
19. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of
the classroom a half-second after Andy Card told him,
"Mr. pResident, the nation is under attack"?
20. Why did they leave him exposed to danger for two
and a half minutes in the classroom and another
half-hour in the school before he returned to the
relative safety of Air Force One?
21. Where was George H. W. Bush at the time of the
attacks?
22. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the
flights tell people on the ground that the highjackers
had "box cutters"?
23. Where are the flight recorders?
24. How did they find a passport that just "happens"
to belong to one of the hijackers in the WTC rubble
and they can't locate even ONE flight recorder?
25. Why no investigative reporting of the Pentagon
scene? The photos do not show much, but then
photographers were not allowed, initially, to
photograph the scene, if I remember correctly.
26. Why was the series of recommendations Al Gore also
put together in 1996 on airport security called by
Republican congress "paranoid" and too harsh. Why did
the airline industry, lobbying against it, consider it
too expensive and impractical.
27. Why was the Hart-Rudman report on the potential
dangers of terrorism in the homeland. The results of
the research ignored by Bush?
28. Why were FISA warrants disallowed by Bush?
29. Why did the US pull the plug on Muslim websites
Monday September 10, 2001?
30. Why did the Saudi bin-Laden-group have a website
with a PRE-SET expiration date of Sept. 11, 2001?
31. Why were the bin Ladens flown out of the U.S. on
private jets the day after the 9/11?
32. Why did Cheney say that everyone in the White
House started taking Cipro on September 12 when the
first anthrax letter wasn't postmarked until September
18. 33. Why did Bush dissolve the Bin Laden Task
Force? What would have happened had this focused and
knowledgeable group been in place 9 months before 911?
34. Why was metallic debris found 8 miles from the
crash site of the plane that went down in Penn? They
said it went straight down and left a small hole in
the ground. If they found metallic debris from the
plane 8 miles away it was either shot down or a bomb
exploded in the plane.
35. Why did they not let the media or any reporters
take video or photos of the crash site?





you forgot to add question #36.


Where did the passengers of flight 93 end up?

A) Groom Lake, area 51

B) the bermuda triangle

C) Aboard a UFO manned by gay robot aliens

D) Lodged right up Happy Devil's ass....

[Happy Devil]

Ps: If your not old enough to buy beer don't bother replying.

[gtownspur]

Ps: If your not old enough to induce tons of beer to digest this load of Bullshit, don't reply.

[Purple Rain]

I find it amusing the length some of you go though to not answer basic questions.

[ChumpDumper]

400 basic questions?

You tell us who did it and why. Save us some time.

[01Snake]

400 basic questions?

You tell us who did it and why. Save us some time.


:lol No kidding. He seems to have all the answers already so why not enlighten all of us to "The Truth"?

[Spurminator]

Mouse doesn't believe it was a conspiracy, he just wants proof it wasn't.

I don't believe in spontaneous combustion, but I won't be 100% until someone proves to me there is no such thing. Get to work, bitches.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Maybe you should start an intelligent conversation with Powerpuff Hour.


Talking about the WTC being staged in an academic sense would be like having an intellectual discussion about a secret plan for all blowup sex dolls being turned into nanobots for the purpose of planning a massive invasion of Denmark in the year 2009.

Sorry, take your intelligent conversation to some ufo butt probing site.

A typical response rejecting flatly the opposing point of view is to belittle the issue and your interlocutor.

If you don't have any questions about WTC or 9-11 then it necessesarily means you have an unhealthy amount of trust in the governing power, authority, "official report" etc... -- it actually suggests a blind trust, something that is cripling to the duty of a free and informed American citizen.

There is nothing "stupid" about asking intelligent, sincere, and important questions.

And btw -- thanks for the model of intelligent conversation. :lol :lol :lol

[1369]

If you don't have any questions about WTC or 9-11 then it necessesarily means you have an unhealthy amount of trust in the governing power, authority, "official report" etc... -- it actually suggests a blind trust, something that is cripling to the duty of a free and informed American citizen.

Translated: "You obviously don't know how to think properly, So I will tell you what and how to think."

Thanks for that, Il Duce.

[johnsmith]

I can't believe this thread is still going........so sad.........I blame it mostly on Mouse, or whatever the fuck that douche bags name is.

By the way, I heard Mouse is much less funny then Mencia.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Translated: "You obviously don't know how to think properly, So I will tell you what and how to think."

Thanks for that, Il Duce.

Even if the official explanation is fireproof and infallible -- if you have no questions about it, either you are the smartest person on the planet (you aren't,) or you don't have a critical mind (translated: "gullible; overly trusting.") Since when is encouraging people to ask questions and to use their brains telling people how to think? Is that really the kind of thing that you relate to mussolini? I think he would much rather have an unconcerned and gullible population than one that asks questions.

[101A]

Even if the official explanation is fireproof and infallible -- if you have no questions about it, either you are the smartest person on the planet (you aren't,) or you don't have a critical mind (translated: "gullible; overly trusting.") Since when is encouraging people to ask questions and to use their brains telling people how to think? Is that really the kind of thing that you relate to mussolini? I think he would much rather have an unconcerned and gullible population than one that asks questions.

First, no matter how many questions are answered, these nutburgers come up with more. Second, gullible is as gullible does.

[Extra Stout]

Even if the official explanation is fireproof and infallible -- if you have no questions about it, either you are the smartest person on the planet (you aren't,) or you don't have a critical mind (translated: "gullible; overly trusting.") Since when is encouraging people to ask questions and to use their brains telling people how to think? Is that really the kind of thing that you relate to mussolini? I think he would much rather have an unconcerned and gullible population than one that asks questions.
To lend credence to the 9/11 conspiracy theories, I have to suspend all critical thought.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's always been interesting to me that the 9/11 interlocutors are obsessed with anecdotal evidence that, at least in some cases, has been later debunked. It's essentially contending that the government is corrupt because you heard one time from one person that this one guy said something that seemed kind of suspicious.

I think some of the questions posed are borderline comical: why did the passengers on three planes use the term "boxcutters" to describe the hijackers weapons? My guess -- and it's just a guess -- is that such a coincidence arose because the groups that hijacked the planes each used boxcutters (among the few potentially lethal objects that could be passed through security at the time) and the passengers who reported their observations described the weapons as such. It might be that those who are retelling the stories have substituted the word "boxcutter" for some other description that the passengers gave, but frankly, the term boxcutter strikes me as the most likely description of the objects the hijackers wielded -- assuming there were hijackers, of course.

Why are there no photos or video of Flight 77 striking the Pentagon? Probably for the same reason that there are no photos or video of Flight 93 crashing into the Pennsylvania countryside. Probably for the same reason that there are no photos or video of virtually any other plane crash that occurs anywhere in the world. But for the coincidence of the French cameracrew following around a fire station crew in Lower Manhattan at the time, there likely wouldn't be any video of Flight 11 striking WTC 1 -- but the absence of video or photographs wouldn't change the fact that a plane crashed into the building.

How did they come up with the culprits, find their cars, remove their names from passenger manifests, raid their hotel rooms, and all sorts of other things so quickly? My guess -- off the wall as it might be -- would be that the manifests were turned over to intelligence agencies who were able, very quickly, to identify their suspects. Since it appears that all of these guys operated under their given names -- or at least didn't stray from the names they used in purchasing plane tickets (consider the traffic ticket to Ziad Jarrah in Maryland in September 2001) -- retracing their steps to discover which hotels they stayed in and which cars they rented wouldn't be terribly difficult. Finding a particular car in, for instance, a parking lot at the Portland, Maine airport, also doesn't strike me as being a terribly complex manuever, even for federal agents. It would stand to reason that if the government had identified those people as the likely hijackers, good taste would dictate that those names not be listed in the manifest distributed to the public. Why combine the names of the innocent with those of their killers? The same thing tends to be done in reporting, for instance, the names of those who die at the hands of other murderers. I don't see why that's somehow noteworthy here.

I could go on and on. I'm sure I'll be called a simpleton hack for the government or other such things. Whatever. I'm content to believe that my government, however much I might dislike the President and his policies, isn't involved in some far-flung conspiracy to kill me or my loved ones.

[ChumpDumper]

So no one is going to tell me what really happened?

[johnsmith]

A terra-ist can be a hypocrite who just wants to kill people?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

My whole worldview is shaken!




Best post in this thread......well, next to my rolling stones article.

[101A]

So no one is going to tell me what really happened?


Sorry.

We're just too naive.

[ChumpDumper]

We just can't handle the truth -- especially when it isn't told to us.

[Nbadan]

So no one is going to tell me what really happened?

It's the government's own fault for creating and feeding all these conspiracy theories. If the government would be more transparent about it's investigation into events leading too and conspirators involve in 911 then we can clean some of these lower issues up, but the government has chosen to mucky-muck the 911 waters with mis and dis-information, classifying documents, and just plain lying.

[FromWayDowntown]

and just plain lying.

about what? I'd like to hear that the government lied about some specific and material issue, with proof of that lie in terms of objective proof and not just hearsay statements or isolated conjecture.

[ChumpDumper]

It's the government's own fault for creating and feeding all these conspiracy theories. If the government would be more transparent about it's investigation into events leading too and conspirators involve in 911 then we can clean some of these lower issues up, but the government has chosen to mucky-muck the 911 waters with mis and dis-information, classifying documents, and just plain lying.Now it's your and mouse's fault for not telling me what really happened.

[Extra Stout]

It's the government's own fault for creating and feeding all these conspiracy theories. If the government would be more transparent about it's investigation into events leading too and conspirators involve in 911 then we can clean some of these lower issues up, but the government has chosen to mucky-muck the 911 waters with mis and dis-information, classifying documents, and just plain lying.
"If only the government would admit to the theoretical conspiracy, then we could dispense with the conspiracy theories."

[Nbadan]

Now it's your and mouse's fault for not telling me what really happened.


Well, I can't speak for Mouse, but I think that Muhamed Atta was a spook.

[ChumpDumper]

And?

[Nbadan]

"If only the government would admit to the theoretical conspiracy, then we could dispense with the conspiracy theories."

Government doesn't hide the truth for nothing.

[Extra Stout]

Government doesn't hide the truth for nothing.
The fact that the government won't admit to monitoring my brain waves with satellites proves that they are monitoring my brain waves with satellites. That is why I wear this tinfoil hat.

[johnsmith]

Government doesn't hide the truth for nothing.

I bet this is another one of those government "flash in the pants".

[1369]

Flash Pants?

http://www.emovieposter.com/images/fixed/200/flash_pants.jpg

[clambake]

Both sides are guilty of feeding these theories. A good conspiracy has to have just enough of what their base would want to believe is true, and argue to the end against anything that resembles evidence to the contrary. Neither side is trying to persuade the other to change bases, it's just to stir the venom and inspire each side to stand firm.

[01Snake]

but I think that Muhamed Atta was a spook.

Racist!!

[Steve Perry]

I think some of the questions posed are borderline comical:
Why are there no photos or video of Flight 77 striking the Pentagon? Probably for the same reason that there are no photos or video of Flight 93 crashing into the Pennsylvania countryside. Probably for the same reason that there are no photos or video of virtually any other plane crash that occurs anywhere in the world.


Psssssssst! I hate to be the one to tell you but the Pentagon is one of the most secured buildings in the country. With more cameras than Paris Hilton's bedroom. Not to mention they confiscated the cameras from the HWY cam the near by gas station, and a Hotel roof top camera.

The only thing Comical is how you come across like my father warning me about how bad pussy is and not to have sex, That shit your speaking may work on some young kids in your 5th Grade Gym class but some of us posting in this forum may have already come to the conclusion the FBI covered up some shit we just want to know why. Try to answer questions and maybe add to the topic or you might wind up on the Johnsmith list of asshats we ignore.

[ChumpDumper]

So what really happened?

[01Snake]

So what really happened?

No shit. Is anyone going to tell us?

[mookie2001]

is that your reason to believe the official story?, because no one can tell you what happened?

[SAtoDallas]

Here's what happened. We never really landed on the moon, the earth stays at consistant temperature levels, the Bush Administration created Hurricane Katrina and every other disaster, it is the governments responsibility to ensure every single person is taken care of no matter what the person wants, it is the Bush Adminstration's fault the terrorists planned on taking down a plane in the Phillipines back in the 90's and it is also the Bush Administrations fault that the WTC was attacked back in the 90's along with the bombing of the USS Cole right Nbadan.

[mookie2001]

good one

[ChumpDumper]

is that your reason to believe the official story?, because no one can tell you what happened?I can't believe a different story if no one tells me one.

[ChumpDumper]

Bueller?

[Nbadan]

Bueller?

More like The Good Shepard.

:hat

[01Snake]

http://media.bluedistortion.com/cat-in-tin-foil-hat.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

More like The Good Shepard.

:hatMore like wtf? Why won't anyone tell me what really happened?

[Nbadan]

Blah, once you get into spooks, forgetaboutit!

You know.

:hat

[ChumpDumper]

No. I don't.

emoticon <> explanation

[Nbadan]

Someday, maybe someday, we may find out the truth. Remember, everything is ultimately about politics as much as you may not want to admit it. That's why this forum rules.

[ChumpDumper]

You can't even cough up a half-baked theory?

:td

[Spurminator]

People like Dan don't believe 9/11 conspiracy theories... they just help perpetuate the Conspiracy Movement because it benefits their cause to do so.

It's shameful.

[Nbadan]

People like Dan don't believe 9/11 conspiracy theories... they just help perpetuate the Conspiracy Movement because it benefits their cause to do so.

It's shameful.

What cause?

[ChumpDumper]

What theory?

[Nbadan]

My only 'cause' is to save us from ourselves with the truth, but I've seen what happens to people who are always right, like Scott Ritter, so I have no grand agenda.

[mookie2001]

thats weak, theres no way you expect dan or anyone else to tell you what really happened. I would bet my life that what really happened was nothing like the official story, we need a transparent investigation and mainstream media to ask questions about cleveland ohio, black boxes, the bodies from flight 93, the firemen and hundreds of others reporting explosions, the visable charges suggesting of demolition, melting temps of steel, marvin bush, the missing gold, why so many people were warned to stay home that day, etc...

[ChumpDumper]

It's not weak at all.

What

do

you

think

really

happened?

Just tell me what you believe. I'm not asking for any definiteive proof. Why is this so difficult for you?

[mookie2001]

I think WTC 1, 2, and 7 had bombs inside them, and they collapsed much like controlled demolition, I dont know who put the bombs there. not one of the hijackers' identities has been confirmed, or else 7 of them are alive, and its not proven that the hijackers were members of al queda. Flight 93 is a complete mystery, I do not think a plane hit the pentagon, thats all i know

[Nbadan]

I think we got betrayed.

[ChumpDumper]

I think we got betrayed.By whom?

[ChumpDumper]

By whom?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I've seen those videos about the WTC, the pentagon and all that. The one about the Pentagon really shook me up. I'm sure everyone has seen it. The things that got me were; where was the plane wreckage, why was the building damage kept to a minimum if a 7?7 hit it at full speed, and where were the bodies of the passengers. Who knows what happened. It's all fascinating, but I know our government wasn't completely in the dark on this one.

[ChumpDumper]

By whom?

[Steve Perry]

So what really happened?

Whats wrong with your lazy ass that you don't have time to download this movie and then you tell us all what part you don't understand?



http://video.google.com/videosearch?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&sa=N&resnum=0&q=in%20plane%20site&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&tab=wv







http://www.foxliberal.com/index/images/911ips.JPG

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not asking what low production value Google Video thinks, douchebag.

I'm asking you what you think.

[=RTM=]

I'm not asking what low production value Google Video thinks, douchebag.

I'm asking you what you think.

I think your full of shit. you happy now?

douchebag.?

And to think I thought you was one to lecture others on name calling. There are some weak minded posters in this forum that, we don't need to show proof we see it on a daily basis.





It does not matter what the topic is. You and your pocket protector buddies just want to argue, If we talk about Jesus? you will say "Show me proof. where is the manger located?" If we talk about winning money in Vegas , you will say show me the bank receipt that shows you really have money you won, You guys just want to disagree with anyone who shows any sign of Intelligent debate.

But being that your a simple minded Spurs fan your excused since you all feel Manu does not flop and Bowen never plays dirty.

[ChumpDumper]

Why are you so cowardly that you can't bring yourself say what you think?

I ask you guys a direct question and I get nothing.

You are pathetic.

[ChumpDumper]

BTW I saw your precious video.

Then I saw another Google video that blew it out of the water in 1/5 of the time.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7160274150347523777

Once again, what do YOU think?

[johnsmith]

Try to answer questions and maybe add to the topic or you might wind up on the Johnsmith list of asshats we ignore.



:lol :lol Now you're starting to believe that since you have different user names that they all actually are different people.

You're a dumb, burnt out, fucking retard.

[Extra Stout]

I've seen those videos about the WTC, the pentagon and all that. The one about the Pentagon really shook me up. I'm sure everyone has seen it. The things that got me were; where was the plane wreckage, why was the building damage kept to a minimum if a 7?7 hit it at full speed, and where were the bodies of the passengers. Who knows what happened. It's all fascinating, but I know our government wasn't completely in the dark on this one.
I know the damage to the Pentagon was kept to a minimum because unlike, say, the WTC, the Pentagon is built like a freaking bunker out of thick stone, while an airplane is built out of lightweight aluminum.

Stone wins in a fight with aluminum. The body of that plane wouldn't have made it very deep before disintegrating, and the wings wouldn't have penetrated much, if at all.

[clambake]

The planes are made to expand and contract.

Didn't Randy Johnson throw a pitch that disintegrated a pidgeon?

[Extra Stout]

The planes are made to expand and contract.

Didn't Randy Johnson throw a pitch that disintegrated a pidgeon?
Yes, and an object with a hard rubber core wrapped in leather is much harder than a soft-tissue organism with a lightweight endoskeleton.

Here's an experiment:

1. Roll up a ball of aluminum foil as big around as your hand. Go outside and drop it on a boulder. Observe what happens to the boulder.

2. Lay the foil ball on the ground. Pick up the boulder and drop it on the ball of foil. Observe the effect on the foil.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I know the damage to the Pentagon was kept to a minimum because unlike, say, the WTC, the Pentagon is built like a freaking bunker out of thick stone, while an airplane is built out of lightweight aluminum.

Stone wins in a fight with aluminum. The body of that plane wouldn't have made it very deep before disintegrating, and the wings wouldn't have penetrated much, if at all.i agree about the stone vs aluminum scenario, but the damage was pretty far into the pentagon. plus, it's pretty safe to assume that the wings would snap off immediately upon impact with stone. where were they? i didn't see anything that resembled wreckage on the outside. the fuel tank would've burned inside the pentagon, so i don't believe the disinegration theory on that one.

[clambake]

I can't help you there, ES. Some here would say I only have enough foil for my head.

[johnsmith]

Not that they care, but this thread has given me a new found respect for clambake and chumpdumper.

Hilarious.

[101A]

i agree about the stone vs aluminum scenario, but the damage was pretty far into the pentagon. plus, it's pretty safe to assume that the wings would snap off immediately upon impact with stone. where were they? i didn't see anything that resembled wreckage on the outside. the fuel tank would've burned inside the pentagon, so i don't believe the disinegration theory on that one.



Fuel tanks are in the wings. What do you think happened to the wings NOW?

[johnsmith]

i agree about the stone vs aluminum scenario, but the damage was pretty far into the pentagon. plus, it's pretty safe to assume that the wings would snap off immediately upon impact with stone. where were they? i didn't see anything that resembled wreckage on the outside. the fuel tank would've burned inside the pentagon, so i don't believe the disinegration theory on that one.

I love the "it's pretty safe to assume" thing.



How about this one, "it's pretty safe to assume" that two planes were hijacked and flown into the WTC causing mass destruction. "It's pretty safe to assume" that a plane was hijacked at around the same time and flown into the Pentagon. "It's pretty safe to assume" that another plane was hijacked and the passengers fought to take the plane back before it crashed into a field into Pennsylvania.


Hey, look at that, I just solved the "mystery" by assuming things.

[01Snake]

^^ :lol

[Extra Stout]

i agree about the stone vs aluminum scenario, but the damage was pretty far into the pentagon. plus, it's pretty safe to assume that the wings would snap off immediately upon impact with stone. where were they? i didn't see anything that resembled wreckage on the outside. the fuel tank would've burned inside the pentagon, so i don't believe the disinegration theory on that one.
The plane was flying pretty fast. That is a lot of kinetic energy to dissipate. If the plane had not so quickly disintegrated, the damage to the Pentagon would have been much worse.

If there had been signs of semi-intact wings, that would raise eyebrows to me about what really happened. I would expect at most tiny, confetti-size shreds of metal, and a lot of aluminum oxide residue.

You would expect as the wings snapped off, they would curl in towards the fuselage and follow the body of the plane into the building as they disintegrated.

The fuel tanks on the Boeing 757 are on the wings.

[Extra Stout]

I get the feeling that most of the conspiracy theorists were liberal arts majors.

[johnsmith]

You would expect as the wings snapped off, they would curl in towards the fuselage and follow the body of the plane into the building as they disintegrated.

The fuel tanks on the Boeing 757 are on the wings.



Now that's just flat out wrong ES. Everyone that's ever seen cartoons knows for a fact that when a plane runs into something, the wings snap off immediately and just lay there completely intact.

Afterwards, hilarity always ensues when the cartoon character flying the plane drifts for a little while before falling off the cliff and gets flattened. Then of course the wings hit him in the top of the head causing him to fold like an accordian.


I love the Road Runner too.

[1369]

Now that's just flat out wrong ES. Everyone that's ever seen cartoons knows for a fact that when a plane runs into something, the wings snap off immediately and just lay there completely intact.

Afterwards, hilarity always ensues when the cartoon character flying the plane drifts for a little while before falling off the cliff and gets flattened. Then of course the wings hit him in the top of the head causing him to fold like an accordian.


I love the Road Runner too.

Hey, who knew that coffee will burn one's sinuses?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Fuel tanks are in the wings. What do you think happened to the wings NOW?what do you think happened to the wings?

[Extra Stout]

Now that's just flat out wrong ES. Everyone that's ever seen cartoons knows for a fact that when a plane runs into something, the wings snap off immediately and just lay there completely intact.

Afterwards, hilarity always ensues when the cartoon character flying the plane drifts for a little while before falling off the cliff and gets flattened. Then of course the wings hit him in the top of the head causing him to fold like an accordian.


I love the Road Runner too.
I also learned from cartoons that when something or somebody goes through a wall, they punch a hole with their exact silhouette.

[Extra Stout]

what do you think happened to the wings?
They were shredded into small pieces by the impact, and most of the pieces burned.

[101A]

what do you think happened to the wings?

^^^^

[Viva Las Espuelas]

So, I take it that you guys believe that a plane crashed into The Pentagon. No question.

[101A]

So, I take it that you guys believe that a plane crashed into The Pentagon. No question.

Yes.

Because that is what happened. No question whatsoever.

Wait, I've got to go; the black helicopters here to deliver my money.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Yes.

Because that is what happened. No question whatsoever.

Wait, I've got to go; the black helicopters here to deliver my money.That's cool. Have you seen those conspiracy videos? I'm just talking about the pentagon one on this one. I was wondering if everything they pointed out is flawed. I'm being serious here, so no need for jokes. Honestly, when I saw one it gave me a whole lot of doubt.

[101A]

This might help also:

Pictures of Pentagon (includes shots of aircraft remains INSIDE the building) (http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html#parts)

[johnsmith]

That's cool. Have you seen those conspiracy videos? I'm just talking about the pentagon one on this one. I was wondering if everything they pointed out is flawed. I'm being serious here, so no need for jokes. Honestly, when I saw one it gave me a whole lot of doubt.


Gosh, when you saw a video that uses scary music and someone narrating and trying to get you to believe what they wanted you to believe, you had a whole lot of doubt. How odd.


I mean, the way that they are totally un-biased and don't have an agenda at all (ie Micheal Moore) I would think you'd be left thinking maybe both sides have a point. But wow, you were left with a whole lot of doubt.

Seriously, I love the "don't believe everything the government tells you" type of a spin and yet conspiracy theorists see one movie made by a couple of college kids and it's a for sure thing.

[101A]

That's cool. Have you seen those conspiracy videos? I'm just talking about the pentagon one on this one. I was wondering if everything they pointed out is flawed. I'm being serious here, so no need for jokes. Honestly, when I saw one it gave me a whole lot of doubt.


I understand.

In the link I just posted, look at the "human remains" links. There's a picture of a guy still strapped into his seat; looks like he's screaming; horrifying. Obviously the conspiracy sights haven't posted THESE pictures. It, quite frankly, is an insult to the people who experienced that terror on that day, and their families still today.

We KNOW who did this, and it's not our government. The evidence is there, and it has been openly made available to all who care to look for it. It is what it is.

[johnsmith]

This might help also:

Pictures of Pentagon (includes shots of aircraft remains INSIDE the building) (http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html#parts)


My God, the puncture of c-ring is in a perfect circle.........there is no way it could have been a plane.







There, did it for the conspiracy folks.

[johnsmith]

I understand.

In the link I just posted, look at the "human remains" links. There's a picture of a guy still strapped into his seat; looks like he's screaming; horrifying. Obviously the conspiracy sights haven't posted THESE pictures. It, quite frankly, is an insult to the people who experienced that terror on that day, and their families still today. We KNOW who did this, and it's not our government. The evidence is there, and it has been openly made available to all who care to look for it. It is what it is.


Absolutely.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Gosh, when you saw a video that uses scary music and someone narrating and trying to get you to believe what they wanted you to believe, you had a whole lot of doubt. How odd.


I mean, the way that they are totally un-biased and don't have an agenda at all (ie Micheal Moore) I would think you'd be left thinking maybe both sides have a point. But wow, you were left with a whole lot of doubt.

Seriously, I love the "don't believe everything the government tells you" type of a spin and yet conspiracy theorists see one movie made by a couple of college kids and it's a for sure thing.all of this. pointless. must be the altitude. 101A has the maturity level i'm looking for. now back to your dungeon and dragon game.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I understand.

In the link I just posted, look at the "human remains" links. There's a picture of a guy still strapped into his seat; looks like he's screaming; horrifying. Obviously the conspiracy sights haven't posted THESE pictures. It, quite frankly, is an insult to the people who experienced that terror on that day, and their families still today.

We KNOW who did this, and it's not our government. The evidence is there, and it has been openly made available to all who care to look for it. It is what it is.I've never seen these pics. I'll have to check them out at home.

[johnsmith]

all of this. pointless. must be the altitude. 101A has the maturity level i'm looking for. now back to your dungeon and dragon game.

Must be the altitude? What the fuck are you talking about?

Furthermore, I was unaware that you must be mature to believe everything you see/read on the internet.

[=RTM=]

Almost 9 pages and not one person who has actually seen In Plane sight has made any comment worth reading. You don't see me talking about the movie broke back mountain if I never really saw the movie do you?

All I see in here is real people asking real questions and they are getting piled on by a bunch of lame wannabe comedians.

If anyone over the age of 16 has seen the movie In plane sight and wants to have a legit debate? feel free to PM me.

[Spurminator]

Guess you missed the video ChumpDumper posted.

[101A]

Almost 9 pages and not one person who has actually seen In Plane sight has made any comment worth reading. You don't see me talking about the movie broke back mountain if I never really saw the movie do you?

All I see in here is real people asking real questions and they are getting piled on by a bunch of lame wannabe comedians.

If anyone over the age of 16 has seen the movie In plane sight and wants to have a legit debate? feel free to PM me.


Did you look at the pictures and read the essays from the link above?

[johnsmith]

Almost 9 pages and not one person who has actually seen In Plane sight has made any comment worth reading. You don't see me talking about the movie broke back mountain if I never really saw the movie do you?

All I see in here is real people asking real questions and they are getting piled on by a bunch of lame wannabe comedians.

If anyone over the age of 16 has seen the movie In plane sight and wants to have a legit debate? feel free to PM me.


From what I understand, the only wannabe comedian here is you.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Almost 9 pages and not one person who has actually seen In Plane sight has made any comment worth reading. You don't see me talking about the movie broke back mountain if I never really saw the movie do you?

All I see in here is real people asking real questions and they are getting piled on by a bunch of lame wannabe comedians.

If anyone over the age of 16 has seen the movie In plane sight and wants to have a legit debate? feel free to PM me.I don't know if i've seen that one. I've seen a few. I'll have to look it up. What are some points it brings up?

[=RTM=]

They were shredded into small pieces by the impact, and most of the pieces burned.

That's why they have pictures of an office desk with books still lying on top with no burn marks? You would think a fire so great that would destroy any evidence of human life would scorch a page or two? And the windows where the wings would have hit as the so called plane hit the building still had the glass and was not even scratched, You would think a Plane that was flying that fast would at least ruffle one of the blinds in the window?


http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/images/avion-incrustation.jpg

# A fully loaded Boeing 757 weighing 100 tonnes with 30 tonnes of fuel on board would have caused much more fire damage to the Pentagon structure than was sustained.
# Given the physical size and limits of maneuverability of a Boeing 757 at low altitude, it would have been impossible for it to crash only into the ground 2 floors of the Pentagon.
# A fully loaded Boeing 757 hitting a steel reinforced concrete structure at 200-400 m.p.h. would have left massive amounts of debris at the site of the crash, including baggage and bodies, pieces of fuselage, etc. The photographs of fire crews on the scene show that the lawn in front of the point of impact is largely undisturbed and that there is no significant debris.
# The wings of a Boeing 757 span more than 40 meters and contain the majority of the airplane's fuel. The engines are attached to the wings and sheer off from the wings relatively easily on impact. Neither did the wings penetrate the buildings, or is any trace of the wings or the engines found in front of the building.
# The first civilian firefighters on the scene reported finding no fuselage sections on the scene.






As far as the parts they found inside the building not one matches up to any passenger airline used in the country,

http://www.911studies.com/911%20images/75-911holdpose.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/freedomsix/pics/global-hawk-engine-part.jpg






The part has already been Identified as an engine part form an unmanned plane like this one,

AE3007H a part made by the rolls Royce company used in unmanned aircraft

http://www.arnold.af.mil/aedc/highmach/images/engine.JPG

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38720000/jpg/_38720339_unmanned300.jpg


http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/060301-f-9999M-001.jpg







Further more the so called flight plan shows the passenger plane coming from the other side of the pentagon. In order to turn the plane around and to level if off so its only 8 feet off the ground is a feat no pilot today has ever done with a commercial airliner. And this was done by some terrorist who failed flight school?
Who is really wearing the tin foil caps in this forum?





http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

[=RTM=]

Guess you missed the video ChumpDumper posted.


I put that dick puppet on Ignore days ago. :wakeup

[Extra Stout]

Based upon this thread, I predict that within a couple of months Carlos Mencia will do a skit where he drives a bunch of engineers and scientists batty by hoisting forth nonsensical 9/11 conspiracy theories.

[101A]

Eyewitness Accounts (http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html)

All these people are "in on it"?

[=RTM=]

Did you look at the pictures and read the essays from the link above?


Those pictures only prove my point even more. I like the one where it shows the hole the missile left at the exit.

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/punchout_path_s.jpg

No passenger aircraft made in this country has a nose cone that is strong enough to penetrate that so called nuke proof building. And if was made out of this new man made technology and actually made that hole? it would be strong enough to leave some parts behind, Or let me guess it penetrated all those walls and decided to vaporize at the last second? Go Google some missile attack photos and compare them together, keep Googling your doing me a great favor


This piece weighed about 2 pounds and was already Identified as not a part from a passenger aircraft

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/hullpiece_s.jpg



I like the part where they show a burned body, There goes your theory on how hot the fire was that is so great it burned all the luggage and the black box they claim was not found. You can't have it both ways saying the impact and blast destroyed everything then say you found a body. pick one side of the fence.

That person was never on the plane but was I identified later as a maintenance man working in the area, Nice try though.

[xrayzebra]

That's why they have pictures of an office desk with books still lying on top with no burn marks? You would think a fire so great that would destroy any evidence of human life would scorch a page or two? And the windows where the wings would have hit as the so called plane hit the building still had the glass and was not even scratched, You would think a Plane that was flying that fast would at least ruffle one of the blinds in the window?


http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/images/avion-incrustation.jpg

# A fully loaded Boeing 757 weighing 100 tonnes with 30 tonnes of fuel on board would have caused much more fire damage to the Pentagon structure than was sustained.
# Given the physical size and limits of maneuverability of a Boeing 757 at low altitude, it would have been impossible for it to crash only into the ground 2 floors of the Pentagon.
# A fully loaded Boeing 757 hitting a steel reinforced concrete structure at 200-400 m.p.h. would have left massive amounts of debris at the site of the crash, including baggage and bodies, pieces of fuselage, etc. The photographs of fire crews on the scene show that the lawn in front of the point of impact is largely undisturbed and that there is no significant debris.
# The wings of a Boeing 757 span more than 40 meters and contain the majority of the airplane's fuel. The engines are attached to the wings and sheer off from the wings relatively easily on impact. Neither did the wings penetrate the buildings, or is any trace of the wings or the engines found in front of the building.
# The first civilian firefighters on the scene reported finding no fuselage sections on the scene.






As far as the parts they found inside the building not one matches up to any passenger airline used in the country,

http://www.911studies.com/911%20images/75-911holdpose.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/freedomsix/pics/global-hawk-engine-part.jpg






The part has already been Identified as an engine part form an unmanned plane like this one,

AE3007H a part made by the rolls Royce company used in unmanned aircraft

http://www.arnold.af.mil/aedc/highmach/images/engine.JPG

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38720000/jpg/_38720339_unmanned300.jpg


http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/060301-f-9999M-001.jpg







Further more the so called flight plan shows the passenger plane coming from the other side of the pentagon. In order to turn the plane around and to level if off so its only 8 feet off the ground is a feat no pilot today has ever done with a commercial airliner. And this was done by some terrorist who failed flight school?
Who is really wearing the tin foil caps in this forum?





http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm



RTM, if you had a brain you would take it out and play
with it like you do with other things. What an idiot you are. Go hide the black
helicopters are coming for you.

[101A]

Those pictures only prove my point even more. I like the one where it shows the hole the missile left at the exit.

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/punchout_path_s.jpg

No passenger aircraft made in this country has a nose cone that is strong enough to penetrate that so called nuke proof building. And if was made out of this new man made technology and actually made that hole? it would be strong enough to leave some parts behind, Or let me guess it penetrated all those walls and decided to vaporize at the last second? Go Google some missile attack photos and compare them together, keep Googling your doing me a great favor


This piece weighed about 2 pounds and was already Identified as not a part from a passenger aircraft

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/hullpiece_s.jpg



I like the part where they show a burned body, There goes your theory on how hot the fire was that is so great it burned all the luggage and the black box they claim was not found. You can't have it both ways saying the impact and blast destroyed everything then say you found a body. pick one side of the fence.

That person was never on the plane but was I identified later as a maintenance man working in the area, Nice try though.

So...

Why did "they" use a passenger aircraft for the WTC, but cruise missiles for the Pentagon.

Could it be that we all saw the planes hit the WTC on the Today show, so the theorists can't dispute that. If THAT video weren't available, there would no doubt be a large drone of people stating that the planes didn't hit the WTC, right?

Where is that flight, anyway? What happened to the plane and people.

Landed somewhere else and summarily executed?
Any hypothesis at all?

Or can you just enlighten as to what DIDN'T happen?

Why don't you come up with a theory and we'll all shoot holes in it.

[DarkReign]

nvm

[=RTM=]

I don't know if i've seen that one. I've seen a few. I'll have to look it up. What are some points it brings up?

It starts off by saying its only made to show some unanswered questions.


It even talks about how folks like the ones you see in this topic will do everything they can to try and argue that it was a passenger plane.

You can download eMule or you can download the movie from Google. I never said I belived anyone, or any movie 100%, all I was asking was a few unasnered questions that I had. Instead it turned into some sort of mini smack off with some insults about Carlos Mancia like he really has to do with the topic.

And to think I am called the troll?

If you have a credit card you can order the video here also.

http://www.thepowerhour.com/

http://www.911inplanesite.com/


http://www.911inplanesite.com/images2006/911ips_eng-spn-ed.jpg


http://www.911inplanesite.com/images/topbanner.jpg

They also have a film on how the Troops were lied to in the gulf war about the chemicals they were breathing in.


http://www.thepowermall.com/bookbarn/videos_2.htm#Beyond%20Treason


http://www.911inplanesite.com/images2006/cover_bt.jpg

Another topic you can't discuss here unless you want the MTV crowd to attack you.

[Extra Stout]

People, it's mouse. He believes in 9/11 conspiracy theories just like he is a huge Dallas Mavericks fan. Stop arguing with him.

[101A]

Or, rather than believe the shills in this thread, you can listen to the words of a pilot who witnessed the whole thing:



Tim Timmerman : Pilot. I was looking out the window; I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon, in a corner apartment, so I have quite a panorama. And being next to National Airport, I hear jets all the time, but this jet engine was way too loud. I looked out to the southwest, and it came right down 395, right over Colombia Pike, and as is went by the Sheraton Hotel, the pilot added power to the engines. I heard it pull up a little bit more, and then I lost it behind a building. And then it came out, and I saw it hit right in front of -- it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames. It was horrible. It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question. It was so close to me it was like looking out my window and looking at a helicopter. It was just right there. (We were told that it was flying so low that it clipped off a couple of light poles as it was coming in) That might have happened behind the apartments that occluded my view. And when it reappeared, it was right before impact, and like I said, it was right before impact, and I saw the airplane just disintegrate and blow up into a huge ball of flames. And the building shook, and it was quite a tremendous explosion. I noticed the fire trucks and the responses was just wonderful. Fire trucks were there quickly. I saw the area; the building didn't look very damaged initially, but I do see now, looking out my window, there's quite a chunk in it. But I think the blessing here might have been that the airplane hit before it hit the building, it hit the ground, and a lot of energy might have gone that way. That's what it appeared like.

Or is Tim Timmerman not credible?

[101A]

People, it's mouse. He believes in 9/11 conspiracy theories just like he is a huge Dallas Mavericks fan. Stop arguing with him.


I know he's not a Mavericks fan; didn't know he was a Tin-Hat impostor as well, damn....

[=RTM=]

So...

Why did "they" use a passenger aircraft for the WTC, but cruise missiles for the Pentagon.

Could it be that we all saw the planes hit the WTC on the Today show, so the theorists can't dispute that. If THAT video weren't available, there would no doubt be a large drone of people stating that the planes didn't hit the WTC, right?

Where is that flight, anyway? What happened to the plane and people.

Landed somewhere else and summarily executed?
Any hypothesis at all?

Or can you just enlighten as to what DIDN'T happen?

Why don't you come up with a theory and we'll all shoot holes in it.

What part of I only want to talk to Adults who have seen the movie In plane sight do you not understand? I have questions about the film. We can go in circles all day. Why Did God Pick Noah to build the Ark when there was others who new more about boat building,

Why Did Bush Invade Iraq and Not Iran? Why does Kori have a Kings forum and not a Mavs forum?

Just watch the movie and get back to me , and save your comments for others who want to have mini smack offs,

[Spurminator]

Wait, so The Power Hour is a conspiracy video?

I had always assumed it was an infomercial for some kind of diet or exercise routine...

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Or, rather than believe the shills in this thread, you can listen to the words of a pilot who witnessed the whole thing:


Or is Tim Timmerman not credible?

Tim Timmerman : Pilot. I was looking out the window; I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon, in a corner apartment, so I have quite a panorama. And being next to National Airport, I hear jets all the time, but this jet engine was way too loud. I looked out to the southwest, and it came right down 395, right over Colombia Pike, and as is went by the Sheraton Hotel, the pilot added power to the engines. I heard it pull up a little bit more, and then I lost it behind a building. And then it came out, and I saw it hit right in front of -- it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames. It was horrible. It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question. It was so close to me it was like looking out my window and looking at a helicopter. It was just right there. (We were told that it was flying so low that it clipped off a couple of light poles as it was coming in) That might have happened behind the apartments that occluded my view. And when it reappeared, it was right before impact, and like I said, it was right before impact, and I saw the airplane just disintegrate and blow up into a huge ball of flames. And the building shook, and it was quite a tremendous explosion. I noticed the fire trucks and the responses was just wonderful. Fire trucks were there quickly. I saw the area; the building didn't look very damaged initially, but I do see now, looking out my window, there's quite a chunk in it. But I think the blessing here might have been that the airplane hit before it hit the building, it hit the ground, and a lot of energy might have gone that way. That's what it appeared like.


http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/sipa_n0116740.jpg

this was one point. i don't see the lawn scorched at all. i see the downed street light, but no markings following it.

[whottt]

Why Did Bush Invade Iraq and Not Iran?

Because Iraq was weaker, because the sanctions were doing nothing to Saddam and killing the people, a key point of Usama's recruiting platform...because oh yeah, he had kicked the weapons inspectors out for some 4 years and everyone from Hans Blix to Jacques ChIRAQ, were saying he had them...and at the least, it's been agreed upon that Saddam himself was trying to give that impression...

Me personally? I'm still not convinced...I mean he only had 3 months to get rid of whatever he had...he gave his Airforce to Iran in the Persian Gulf War...

Because Saddam had violated UN resolutions as well as the cease fire signed at the end of the Persian Gulf war, about 200 times since 1991.



So wait...go into Iran first then if Saddam decides he wants to get happy again we have to deal with Iran as well as Saddam?

That's making a weak target strong.

Take Saddam out put bases in Iraq, and Afghanistan...and you are much better position to kick the shit out of Iran, or put enough pressure on them to where the government could soften without the need of invasion.




Damn...how hard is to figure out.





Why does Kori have a Kings forum and not a Mavs forum?

Because the Mavs are still on a probationary period?

They didn't exactly make a great impresion when they arrived...

[Nbadan]

Almost 9 pages and not one person who has actually seen In Plane sight has made any comment worth reading. You don't see me talking about the movie broke back mountain if I never really saw the movie do you?

All I see in here is real people asking real questions and they are getting piled on by a bunch of lame wannabe comedians.

If anyone over the age of 16 has seen the movie In plane sight and wants to have a legit debate? feel free to PM me.

In plane sight and HBO's, Loose Change have been debunked, but I can go through the mechanics if you'd like.

[whottt]

My questions for you...

How is Oil Traded? In particular OPEC Oil? How does that market work?

What were the countries/companies inline to redevlop Iraq's Oil Fields after sanctions were lifted?

If we wanted to control it all for ourselves...why did we first try to do it through UN Resolutions instead of unilateral action, which by the way we had legal recourse under any circumstance due to Saddam's repeated violations of the cease fire including firingt on US and British planes enforcing the no fly zone.


Oh I don't have a doubt Oil is a concern...not just for us, but for just about every country in the world that has a major petroleum industry...what I don't understand is why you think the US had intentions to replace Saddam with a shitter government and make living conditions worse...


In what way does that benefit us? Internally, politically, what do we have to gain by installing Saddam part deux in Iraq?

Did we do that after WWI? WWII? Korea?

Based on what do you draw that conclusion...

I hear that alleged often, usually by liberals and Europeans...

Go take a look at the places with the lowest quality of life and most political instability, you will find Europe's colonial footprint in every one of them. Not ours.

WWI and WWII were also for control of Mid East Oil and territory...what countries started those wars?

Etc.

[whottt]

One other question...how much Oil do Germany and France have? The go take a look at the mid-east activity in WW's I and II, then go look at who all of a sudden we are supposed to turn to and ask for guidance? And who jusy so happened to be opposing us, at who is alleged to have been giving Saddam WMD making materials in the Dueffler Report in violation of Un Sanctions...go look at who the guilty parties are in the OFF scandal...go look at who opposed us in removing Saddam.

What a bunch of nutcases...

I want someone to explain to me why we are all of sudden less trustworthy and altrusistic than France Germany and Russia.

Explain it to me please.

Our Govt is 1000 times more transparent than any of those countries, as well as the Middle Eastern ones...you fools think they don't have dirty laundry that makes our look pristine?

Just because we drag ours out there ourselves doesn't mean the rest of those snotty ass elitist aristocratic bitches don't have their own fair share which doesn't get drug out..

[johnsmith]

And to think I am called the troll?




You are a troll. And a fucking ugly one at that. I've seen the pictures on the GTG threads, you have to be the goofiest looking mother fucker I've ever seen in my life.

[=RTM=]

It's Obvious any Links,quotes.pics,or info I find is all tin hat material , But yet anything the rest of you post is Gold?

I will be back when I can find a non bias's open minded audience,

As for all the so called debunking? why not e mail the Power hour and let them know of this earth shattering Info you have so they can re-do their website?

I'm sure they are looking for answers also. If any of you saw the Movie you would know that by now,

From this point on I will reply to only those who have actually seen the film.
The rest of you guys can argue with yourselves with pointless Scenarios.




911 IN PLANE SITE:

Why were America and the world never shown the video and photographs of the Pentagon, BEFORE the outer wall had collapsed showing only one 16 ft. hole. Many people do not realize that the outer wall did not collapse until almost 30 minutes after the initial impact. See these astonishing photographs and video footage for the first time.

Given that the outer wall of the Pentagon had not yet collapsed and the only hole is approximately 16 ft. in diameter - how does a jetliner over 44 feet tall and 125 ft. wide fit into that hole as shown in the crystal-clear and close-up photographic evidence from the Pentagon? Furthermore, can physics explain why there is no damage to the Pentagon's upper floors where the tail section would have hit?

“I heard a very loud, quick whooshing sound. I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast – it sounded nothing like an airplane.” Lon Rains - editor for Space News (Pentagon eyewitness)

In the aftermath, it was reported by media sources that a giant 100 ft. crater was plowed into the front lawn of the Pentagon as the result of a powerful airliner crash? Why does photographic evidence overwhelmingly show that this was absolutely not the case? Why no crater? Why no skid marks? Why no burn marks? Why was the entire world deliberately mislead? Examine the video and photographic evidence for yourself.

How does a Boeing 757, constructed from lightweight aluminum, penetrate over 9 ft. of steel reinforced concrete? Photographs and recently discovered computer animations help shed light on this unexplained feat of physics.


At the World Trade Center, why did firefighters, reporters and other on the scene eyewitnesses describe a demolition-like, pancake collapse of buildings One, Two & Seven? Hear the outrageous admissions made by the building lease owner recorded on video, plus shocking new video evidence helps to answer some of these important questions.

What is the bright flash on the right side of the Boeing 767, seen just before impact on both the North Tower & the South Tower, captured on video by 5 separate cameramen including CNN and ABC? Slow motion analysis reveals startling verification of this extraordinary event and begs the question, "What is it?"
Find out what former military personnel think this could be.

Why were there numerous reports of bombs & explosions going off in and around the WTC before any buildings had collapsed? Hear & see the testimony of the reporters, rescue teams and eyewitnesses who tell a different story of potential demolition charges, unexplained explosions, and vehicles loaded with explosives as reported on live television the morning of Sept. 11, 2001.

Why did a FOX News employee, who witnessed the second tower attack, report seeing no windows on “Flight 175” a commercial United Airlines jetliner? Why did another eyewitness report that United Airlines Flight 175 was not a commercial airliner? What kind of plane hit the second tower?

Is there some type of exterior swelling protruding from the undercarriage of “Flight 175” ? An independently conducted computerized digital analysis says yes. Where was this "instrument" attached? How could it have departed from a commercial airport without being noticed? What purpose did it serve in the attacks? Full-screen television blow-ups directly from CNN and other mainstream sources reveal the intricate details of this strange anomaly.

[johnsmith]

It's Obvious any Links,quotes.pics,or info I find is all tin hat material , But yet anything the rest of you post is Gold?

I will be back when I can find a non bias's open minded audience,

As for all the so called debunking? why not e mail the Power hour and let them know of this earth shattering Info you have so they can re-do their website?

I'm sure they are looking ofr answers also. If any of you saw the Movie you would know that by now,

From this point on I will reply to only those who have actually seen the film.
The rest of you guys can argue with yourselves with pointless Scenarios.

Or you could create yet another user name and prove once again what a huge douche bag you are.

[dirk4mvp.]

what a huge douche bag you are.

This sums up the politics forum in a nut shell.

Kori can we have an age limit?
:wakeup

[johnsmith]

This sums up the politics forum in a nut shell.

Kori can we have an age limit?
:wakeup



Well, then don't troll the political forum and there won't be anymore of this. Jesus Mouse, get a life. Spend less time on the internet and more on polishing your act so funnier people then you don't steal your stuff.

[101A]

It's Obvious any Links,quotes.pics,or info I find is all tin hat material , But yet anything the rest of you post is Gold?

I will be back when I can find a non bias's open minded audience,

As for all the so called debunking? why not e mail the Power hour and let them know of this earth shattering Info you have so they can re-do their website?

I'm sure they are looking for answers also. If any of you saw the Movie you would know that by now,

From this point on I will reply to only those who have actually seen the film.
The rest of you guys can argue with yourselves with pointless Scenarios.




911 IN PLANE SITE:

Why were America and the world never shown the video and photographs of the Pentagon, BEFORE the outer wall had collapsed showing only one 16 ft. hole. Many people do not realize that the outer wall did not collapse until almost 30 minutes after the initial impact. See these astonishing photographs and video footage for the first time.

Given that the outer wall of the Pentagon had not yet collapsed and the only hole is approximately 16 ft. in diameter - how does a jetliner over 44 feet tall and 125 ft. wide fit into that hole as shown in the crystal-clear and close-up photographic evidence from the Pentagon? Furthermore, can physics explain why there is no damage to the Pentagon's upper floors where the tail section would have hit?

“I heard a very loud, quick whooshing sound. I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast – it sounded nothing like an airplane.” Lon Rains - editor for Space News (Pentagon eyewitness)

In the aftermath, it was reported by media sources that a giant 100 ft. crater was plowed into the front lawn of the Pentagon as the result of a powerful airliner crash? Why does photographic evidence overwhelmingly show that this was absolutely not the case? Why no crater? Why no skid marks? Why no burn marks? Why was the entire world deliberately mislead? Examine the video and photographic evidence for yourself.

How does a Boeing 757, constructed from lightweight aluminum, penetrate over 9 ft. of steel reinforced concrete? Photographs and recently discovered computer animations help shed light on this unexplained feat of physics.


At the World Trade Center, why did firefighters, reporters and other on the scene eyewitnesses describe a demolition-like, pancake collapse of buildings One, Two & Seven? Hear the outrageous admissions made by the building lease owner recorded on video, plus shocking new video evidence helps to answer some of these important questions.

What is the bright flash on the right side of the Boeing 767, seen just before impact on both the North Tower & the South Tower, captured on video by 5 separate cameramen including CNN and ABC? Slow motion analysis reveals startling verification of this extraordinary event and begs the question, "What is it?"
Find out what former military personnel think this could be.

Why were there numerous reports of bombs & explosions going off in and around the WTC before any buildings had collapsed? Hear & see the testimony of the reporters, rescue teams and eyewitnesses who tell a different story of potential demolition charges, unexplained explosions, and vehicles loaded with explosives as reported on live television the morning of Sept. 11, 2001.

Why did a FOX News employee, who witnessed the second tower attack, report seeing no windows on “Flight 175” a commercial United Airlines jetliner? Why did another eyewitness report that United Airlines Flight 175 was not a commercial airliner? What kind of plane hit the second tower?

Is there some type of exterior swelling protruding from the undercarriage of “Flight 175” ? An independently conducted computerized digital analysis says yes. Where was this "instrument" attached? How could it have departed from a commercial airport without being noticed? What purpose did it serve in the attacks? Full-screen television blow-ups directly from CNN and other mainstream sources reveal the intricate details of this strange anomaly.



You've been duped by a Frenchie (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm)

I think these engineers answer most of your questions (http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://paulboutin.weblogger.com/2002/03/14)

[DarkReign]

Well, then don't troll the political forum and there won't be anymore of this. Jesus Mouse, get a life. Spend less time on the internet and more on polishing your act so funnier people then you don't steal your stuff.

Ok seriously, Mouse has many usernames, but dirk4mvp isnt one of them.

[mookie2001]

if yall pay income tax you have to believe in some sort of conspiracy

[johnsmith]

Ok seriously, Mouse has many usernames, but dirk4mvp isnt one of them.


nah, Mouse's is Dirk4mvp with a period on the end. Check the post count.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Tim Timmerman : Pilot. I was looking out the window; I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon, in a corner apartment, so I have quite a panorama. And being next to National Airport, I hear jets all the time, but this jet engine was way too loud. I looked out to the southwest, and it came right down 395, right over Colombia Pike, and as is went by the Sheraton Hotel, the pilot added power to the engines. I heard it pull up a little bit more, and then I lost it behind a building. And then it came out, and I saw it hit right in front of -- it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames. It was horrible. It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question. It was so close to me it was like looking out my window and looking at a helicopter. It was just right there. (We were told that it was flying so low that it clipped off a couple of light poles as it was coming in) That might have happened behind the apartments that occluded my view. And when it reappeared, it was right before impact, and like I said, it was right before impact, and I saw the airplane just disintegrate and blow up into a huge ball of flames. And the building shook, and it was quite a tremendous explosion. I noticed the fire trucks and the responses was just wonderful. Fire trucks were there quickly. I saw the area; the building didn't look very damaged initially, but I do see now, looking out my window, there's quite a chunk in it. But I think the blessing here might have been that the airplane hit before it hit the building, it hit the ground, and a lot of energy might have gone that way. That's what it appeared like.




http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/sipa_n0116740.jpg

this was one point. i don't see the lawn scorched at all. i see the downed street light, but no markings following it.here's another pic with no signs of a disturbed lawn before impact. it's from that snopes.com site 101A posted.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/images/pent2.jpg




the following photo was supposed to have been in my initial post, but i deleted it somehow.

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/sipa_n0116740.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

As for all the so called debunking? why not e mail the Power hour and let them know of this earth shattering Info you have so they can re-do their website?Why not? They already redid their video -- you can see parts of the original in the debunking video I posted that aren't in the re-edited "Director's Cut" of In Plane Sight. I wonder why they changed it?

[101A]

here's another pic with no signs of a disturbed lawn before impact. it's from that snopes.com site 101A posted.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/images/pent2.jpg




the following photo was supposed to have been in my initial post, but i deleted it somehow.

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/sipa_n0116740.jpg


What type of evidence are you looking for? What constitutes "scorching"? If a plane "skips" off the ground, would you recognize the evidence it left behind? A pilot identified an AA 757 hitting the Pentagon, and all you are worried about is whether you can see evidence post-mortem of it hitting the ground first? Think about that.

[Extra Stout]

I know he's not a Mavericks fan; didn't know he was a Tin-Hat impostor as well, damn....
It's a comedy routine.

[101A]

It's a comedy routine.

..and you're having a laugh at my expense no doubt as I get dragged back in.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

What type of evidence are you looking for? What constitutes "scorching"? If a plane "skips" off the ground, would you recognize the evidence it left behind? A pilot identified an AA 757 hitting the Pentagon, and all you are worried about is whether you can see evidence post-mortem of it hitting the ground first? Think about that.read the quote of Tim Timmerman that you quote and the sentenced that I underlined. if a plane that big does that much damage to a building don't you think there would be some indication of it hitting the lawn like Tim says. all that energy should be evident on the lawn.