Is Jacque Vaugn Pop's way of punishing SpursFans?

[whottt]

Discuss.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

At least he knows he can't shoot... unlike another guard

[ChumpDumper]

Beno is really that bad.

[exstatic]

Jaques can D up and run the offense. Beno can't play either.

[whottt]

If you call that crap running the offense...

Sorry but they turn into the fucking Washington Generals the second Vaugn comes into the game. It's scrubsville for this guy. At least if Beno is left open there's a 30% chance he'll hit something...the only way Jaque is going to score is if the Suns put it in the basket for him.

[2centsworth]

Jacques is better than nothing and Beno is nothing right now.

Beno gives you nothing on D, nothing on O, and can't get an assist to save his life.

[mardigan]

Beno is, I hate this guy more than ANY player the Spurs have ever had, is Pop just fucking blind? Cant he see this guy doesnt contribute ANYTHING?

[E20]

I like Vaughn when he's on the floor for Tony.

I mean he knows what's he there for and doesn't take any shots except for wide open looks. He's just there to get the ball to the next spot, nothing else.

[Kori Ellis]

Beno and JV both are horrible.

I wish Tony was a machine and could play 48 minutes.

[timvp]

Beno is the worst player in the NBA.

Vaughn is the second worst.

[E20]

Beno and JV both are horrible.

I wish Tony was a machine and could play 48 minutes.
Well what do you expect from Vaughn? :lol

That goes for any Spurs PG not named Tony, that spot is more lacking than the PF/C spots.

[mardigan]

We NEED Atkins, right now, I cant take it anymore. When Tony comes off the floor we become one of the worst teams in the league, how can Pop not see this?

[mardigan]

Beno is the worst player in the NBA.

Vaughn is the second worst.
More true words were never spoken

[MannyIsGod]

Vaughn doesn't run the offense well. Thats a myth. Tim had to yell at him several times to swing the ball cross court. This isn't a PG dominated offense, so he needs to move the ball.

However, Beno doesn't run the offense any better, and Beno is much worse on D.

Vaughn is narrowly edging out Beno but I'm not sure thats something to be proud of.

More than a big, more than a 4, right now we need a backup 1. I don't care if you have to coax Steve Kerr out of retirement of some other washed up slow PG. Bring someone, anyone in.

Charlie Ward anybody? :vomit

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Charlie Ward anybody? :vomit

I hope that's the illness talking.

[Kori Ellis]

Well what do you expect from Vaughn? :lol
.
I expect nothing from him. That's why I don't get riled about it anymore. I expect that every single game the opponent will go on a run when Tony rests. From the time when Tony came out at the near the end of the first and came back in with 8 min or whatever left in the second, it was a 10 point negative swing. I'm sure it was the same crap in the second half; I just didn't bother to notice. I expect it now.

[mardigan]

At least Charlie Ward could hit a open fucking jumper, I cant believe how bad Beno is, Im mean really I have never seen a worse player in the NBA

[whottt]

Is Anthony Carter playing anywhere?

He's no Avery...but damn.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Is this what we're reduced to?

Charlie Ward?

Anthony Carter?

Jason Hart?

Hell, is Cory Alexander available?

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, I said in the game blog I'm keeping track of Moochie Norris in the CBA.

Wish I was joking.

[timvp]

Beno is officially the worst Spur who has been in a rotation in franchise history. The guy is beyond horrible. It's just amazing to me that he's still in the NBA. He wouldn't even average double figures in the NBDL. It'd take a WNBA point guard over him right now.

Seriously.

[Kori Ellis]

The Sonics are trying to get rid of one of Ridnour or Watson.

Do what you need to do.

[E20]

Jason Hart wasn't that bad. I THINK he was doing good for the Bobcats or whatever team he is on, I dont' know where he's at right now.

What about Shane Heal?

If the Sonics are thinking of shipping Ridnour you GET him; he's a balla. :fro

[2centsworth]

dude i saw dwayne washington at the gym. He was fat, but didn't look to bad.

He can't be any worse than what the spurs have.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

What about Shane Heal?

Whottt just creamed himself.

[ChumpDumper]

Greg Sutton is only 39....

[mardigan]

Is this what we're reduced to?

Charlie Ward?

Anthony Carter?

Jason Hart?

Hell, is Cory Alexander available?
Have you seen Beno play?

[Kori Ellis]

LJ's brother Geoff is a better point guard than Beno or JV right now. :lol

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Have you seen Beno play?

If by "play," you mean "embarrass this franchise," then yes, I've seen him play.

Why do you think I asked if Cory Alexander was available?

[upTD]

Beno is the worst player in the NBA.

Vaughn is the second worst.

and POP?

[VaSpursFan]

we have 2 3rd stringers or a 3rd and 4th stringer on this team. we need a quality back up PG

[mardigan]

I know, it was more to your is this what we have been reduced too comment, sadly, yes

[whottt]

Shane Heal would be embarrased to be part of the same unit as Beno and Jaque.....

[2centsworth]

I think Charles Smith is up for Parole this year.

[Holt's Cat]

Jacque Vaughn is what you get when ownership is committed to winning now. Honest.

[MannyIsGod]

I'd give my left nut for Shane fucking Heal right now.

[mardigan]

If we dont trade for Atkins tomorrow, you guys are going to here a sad story of the man who tried to drown himself on the riverwalk

[MannyIsGod]

Shane Heal would be embarrased to be part of the same unit as Beno and Jaque.....:lol I was too slow. Whottt beat me to his boy.

[VaSpursFan]

If we dont trade for Atkins tomorrow, you guys are going to here a sad story of the man who tried to drown himself on the riverwalk

Pops too damned stubborn; he's convinced that beno will get better next game :lol

[E20]

Atkins, Ridnour, or Watson. As a matter of fact any PG for Beno+Vaughn+whoever.

Do it. :bling

[whottt]

LOL Manny ;). I was expecting it from the second the thread was started.

[MannyIsGod]

BTW, I don't support trading a 1st round pick for a PG. I don't think its worth it. I'm not sure a PG gives the Spurs enough to win this year, but they desprately need more youth.

[Kori Ellis]

BTW, I don't support trading a 1st round pick for a PG. I don't think its worth it. I'm not sure a PG gives the Spurs enough to win this year, but they desprately need more youth.

I support trading a 1st round pick, plus Scola and any other Euro they have stashed. The draft isn't awesome after the first 15 players or so and the Spurs will just pick someone and stash them away anyway -- and then they'll probably never come over. So package whatever you can.

[Holt's Cat]

Win now. Fuck tomorrow. The problem is that the Spurs are faking winning now and don't have that much for tomorrow.

[SequSpur]

Dude... Pop could save his rep if he fucking waived Beno right now and asked him to take a Greyhound bus home...

I would give him props.

[2centsworth]

Why you guys wanting to trade a 1st rd pick?

I'm telling you a couple of happy meals will get us "pearl" washington.

[ploto]

Anyone miss NVE yet?

[MannyIsGod]

I support trading a 1st round pick, plus Scola and any other Euro they have stashed. The draft isn't awesome after the first 15 players or so and the Spurs will just pick someone and stash them away anyway -- and then they'll probably never come over. So package whatever you can.So that next year we can be talking about how the old guy we traded for is doing the same thing as the old guys before? I'd support a trade like that if its for someone young ala the trade that didn't happen last year. But not for an Atkins.

Atkins takes this team from possibly being swept by the Mavs to possibly losing in 6 to the Mavs if that.

If the Spurs are going to improve, its not going to be this year, its going to be in the offseason.

[Mr. Body]

BTW, I don't support trading a 1st round pick for a PG. I don't think its worth it. I'm not sure a PG gives the Spurs enough to win this year, but they desprately need more youth.

Acie Law or Mustafa Shakur should be available where the Spurs draft this year. If they want to expend their first rounder on a PG. I sure as hell would wait and take Acie Law over any other point guard available at the moment.

[MannyIsGod]

Anyone miss NVE yet?:lol

He woudln't be any better but would he be any worse? Probably.

[Holt's Cat]

Hmmm...keeping your draft picks and developing talent. Sounds like the Spurs once upon a time.

[Kori Ellis]

So that next year we can be talking about how the old guy we traded for is doing the same thing as the old guys before? I'd support a trade like that if its for someone young ala the trade that didn't happen last year. But not for an Atkins.

Atkins takes this team from possibly being swept by the Mavs to possibly losing in 6 to the Mavs if that.

If the Spurs are going to improve, its not going to be this year, its going to be in the offseason.

I'm not talking about trading for Atkins. I'm talking about trading in general.

[Mr. Body]

I support trading a 1st round pick, plus Scola and any other Euro they have stashed. The draft isn't awesome after the first 15 players or so and the Spurs will just pick someone and stash them away anyway -- and then they'll probably never come over. So package whatever you can.

With all respect, I think that's a foolish view, and misstaken. This can be a remarkable draft even into the second round, depending partly on how many underclassmen come out. Guys like Alando Tucker and Morris Almond will be found at the end of the first round, maybe even a Jeff Green or a Brandon Rush, with some decent talent spilling into the second, and at least one of those guys is going to be a solid pro. And if the Spurs pick and stash a player this year, it's curtains. They need, very badly need, to get a couple rookies this summer that can contribute.

[Holt's Cat]

The only thing the Spurs might have of value, since they won't take back a long term contract, are their picks and int'l players.

[Kori Ellis]

With all respect, I think that's a foolish view, and misstaken. This can be a remarkable draft even into the second round, depending partly on how many underclassmen come out. Guys like Alando Tucker and Morris Almond will be found at the end of the first round, maybe even a Jeff Green or a Brandon Rush, with some decent talent spilling into the second, and at least one of those guys is going to be a solid pro. And if the Spurs pick and stash a player this year, it's curtains. They need, very badly need, to get a couple rookies this summer that can contribute.

Do you think the Spurs are all of a sudden going to draft American?

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, I just threw Atkins out there because he's the only PG name I keep hearing. I don't think the Spurs should trade that pick in an effort to win this year. The sad fact of the matter is that we're not one player away , we're a bench away. This team needs to undergo a major overhaul at this point.

And people keep complaining about the 08 plan, but the truth is that may be the best plan for the Spurs to take. There just aren't any trade possible that are suddenly going to put the Spurs over the top right now. LJ menionted Derek Fisher before, but the fact is that Fisher here would make this team better, but I don't think it would make it a championship team. They're just that far back.

[Holt's Cat]

'08 is too late for this crew.

[ChumpDumper]

I might throw in a second rounder for Atkins, but nothing more.

[Holt's Cat]

So basically the Spurs have their top 3 in their primes and their supporting cast is old and worthless. When their supporting cast is in its prime then their top 3 will be old and worthless.

[ShoogarBear]

More than a big, more than a 4, right now we need a backup 1. I don't care if you have to coax Steve Kerr out of retirement of some other washed up slow PG. Bring someone, anyone in.Eh, we could discuss this all night, but I disagree.

With a decent frontcourt player, we could stop playing Finley at the 4,use Manu and Brent 5 minutes each at point guard and walk the ball up0 during those times.

The lack of a backup 1 can be faked for 10 minutes a night. The lack of a big can't since, we are currently using three guys (Elson, Oberto, Finley) who aren't getting the job done.

[MannyIsGod]

'08 is too late for this crew.You're probably right, but theres nothing they can get in here now. It just isn't possible to put this team over the hump unless some star gets sold really low and the Spurs are going to try to win with 4 strong playrs and a really mediocre bench, but I really don't see a situatoin like that happening.

[MannyIsGod]

Eh, we could discuss this all night, but I disagree.

With a decent frontcourt player, we could stop playing Finley at the 4,use Manu and Brent 5 minutes each at point guard and walk the ball up0 during those times.

The lack of a backup 1 can be faked for 10 minutes a night. The lack of a big can't since, we are currently using three guys (Elson, Oberto, Finley) who aren't getting the job done.I'll buy into that.

[Mr. Body]

Do you think the Spurs are all of a sudden going to draft American?

They absolutely have to.

[Holt's Cat]

Eh, we could discuss this all night, but I disagree.

With a decent frontcourt player, we could stop playing Finley at the 4,use Manu and Brent 5 minutes each at point guard and walk the ball up0 during those times.

The lack of a backup 1 can be faked for 10 minutes a night. The lack of a big can't since, we are currently using three guys (Elson, Oberto, Finley) who aren't getting the job done.

Maybe Malik will get waived.

[Kori Ellis]

Eh, we could discuss this all night, but I disagree.

With a decent frontcourt player, we could stop playing Finley at the 4,use Manu and Brent 5 minutes each at point guard and walk the ball up0 during those times.

The lack of a backup 1 can be faked for 10 minutes a night. The lack of a big can't since, we are currently using three guys (Elson, Oberto, Finley) who aren't getting the job done.

That's my point. I think having no big is killing us. I think even getting Melvin Ely (who is available for nothing) is better than having Oberto/Elson.

[Kori Ellis]

They absolutely have to.

I'll believe it when I see it. Who was their last American draft pick?

[Holt's Cat]

I'll believe it when I see it. Who was their last American draft pick?

Bryan Bracey? Sato was African.

[ShoogarBear]

Who was their last American draft pick?Mark Olberding.

[Big Shot Rob]

Hell--at this point--

Why not get Alvin Robertson out of jail and put his old uniform.

Or maybe Latrell Spreewell--he needs some extra grocery money.

[Kori Ellis]

Mark Olberding.

Maybe he or Paul Griffin is available. They both looked in decent shape last time I saw them. :drunk

[Mr. Body]

I'll believe it when I see it. Who was their last American draft pick?

By all accounts they have tried to get American players like Jarrett Jack, but failed to pull it off. I fervently believe they'll draft domestic this year, maybe all 3 picks but certainly the first 2. They cannot afford pick-n-stash, their backs are too far against the wall regarding talent. I cannot believe they're too stupid not to recognize this is what they need to do.

Besides the fact that this is a very bad draft for international players.

The question would be... Why do you think they wouldn't draft American players this time? Precedent isn't much in this case.

[timvp]

Seriously, what is Nick Van Exel up to. He was way better last year without the use of his elbow than what we are seeing these days. He at least would have a chance to hit an open three. Beno has shoot under 15% from beyond the arc in the last month+.

Van Exel downing shots in Cancun > Beno + Vaughn

[ShoogarBear]

I believe timvp would even be able to stomach Karl Malone walking through that door at this point.

[Holt's Cat]

By all accounts they have tried to get American players like Jarrett Jack, but failed to pull it off. I fervently believe they'll draft domestic this year, maybe all 3 picks but certainly the first 2. They cannot afford pick-n-stash, their backs are too far against the wall regarding talent. I cannot believe they're too stupid not to recognize this is what they need to do.

Besides the fact that this is a very bad draft for international players.

The question would be... Why do you think they wouldn't draft American players this time? Precedent isn't much in this case.

Spurs would draft 4 young guys and sit them next season while Finley and Horry drag their walkers up the court.

[timvp]

I believe timvp would even be able to stomach Karl Malone walking through that door at this point.

Oh hell no.











Yet. :music

[xamila rey]

seriously, can we still get nick?

[Mr. Body]

Spurs would draft 4 young guys and sit them next season while Finley and Horry drag their walkers up the court.

I'll be in Europe most of next year, so hopefully I'll be spared the sight of such a thing.

[Manu_The _Best]

Discuss.

No, I think by playing Finley, Beno, Oberto and Elson he makes our nights at the toilet even better - I no longer have diarrhea after watching Finley's 3 against the LA...

[Mr. Body]

I believe timvp would even be able to stomach Karl Malone walking through that door at this point.

"Larry Bird/Karl Malone is not walking through that door."
- Rick Pitino

[Holt's Cat]

I'll be in Europe most of next year, so hopefully I'll be spared the sight of such a thing.

Barring a sale of the franchise, that's where we are headed.

[Kori Ellis]

By all accounts they have tried to get American players like Jarrett Jack, but failed to pull it off. I fervently believe they'll draft domestic this year, maybe all 3 picks but certainly the first 2. They cannot afford pick-n-stash, their backs are too far against the wall regarding talent. I cannot believe they're too stupid not to recognize this is what they need to do.

Besides the fact that this is a very bad draft for international players.

The question would be... Why do you think they wouldn't draft American players this time? Precedent isn't much in this case.

I agree that it's logical that they should draft domestic. But they haven't done it in so long, it's hard to imagine. They probably have their eye on a 18 year old in Qatar.

[Mr. Body]

I agree that it's logical that they should draft domestic. But they haven't done it in so long, it's hard to imagine. They probably have their eye on a 18 year old in Qatar.

God I hope not. There are barely 3-4 decent international guys for the first round this year, with Rudy Fernandez and Tiago Splitter heading the class. The rest are awful. Or at least Damir Markota types.

I might have a private riot on Holt's front steps if they draft-n-stash again this year. That's proven to be somewhat unwise and will be more than unwise this summer.

[timvp]

God I hope not. There are barely 3-4 decent international guys for the first round this year, with Rudy Fernandez and Tiago Splitter heading the class. The rest are awful. Or at least Damir Markota types.

I might have a private riot on Holt's front steps if they draft-n-stash again this year. That's proven to be somewhat unwise and will be more than unwise this summer.

Of course they are going to draft-n-stash this year. Not only is that what they always do, but where are the roster spots going to come from to add new players? This same team is coming back next year.

[Mr. Body]

Of course they are going to draft-n-stash this year. Not only is that what they always do, but where are the roster spots going to come from to add new players? This same team is coming back next year.

Unless you're simply being bitter, and there's a good chance of that, we will lose Vaughn, Eric Williams, and Matt Bonner unless we resign. Also, there's rumblings that Horry will retire.

Room for 2-3 rookies.

[timvp]

Unless you're simply being bitter, and there's a good chance of that, we will lose Vaughn, Eric Williams, and Matt Bonner unless we resign. Also, there's rumblings that Horry will retire.

Room for 2-3 rookies.

Bonner will most likely be re-signed if another team doesn't make a huge offer. Horry isn't going to leave money on the table.

Vaughn will probably not be brought back, but do you think the Spurs are going to go with backups of Beno and a rookie? I hope not.

Eric Williams roster spot means that there will be one spot for a rookie ... and that's if Mahinmi or Scola isn't brought over.

Draft-n-Stash will be in full effect.

[baseline bum]

Fuck, we're the 99 Lakers. 3 great players, and 9 worthless ones.

[Mr. Body]

Bonner will most likely be re-signed if another team doesn't make a huge offer. Horry isn't going to leave money on the table.

He still gets the money, which is guaranteed. Doesn't take up a spot.


Vaughn will probably not be brought back, but do you think the Spurs are going to go with backups of Beno and a rookie? I hope not.

I hope so, unless the alternative is trading/ridding ourselves of Udrih.


Draft-n-Stash will be in full effect.

Then there will be no use watching this team. They passed on one homerun draft in 2003 and this looks to be another.

[milkyway21]

I notice the frustration(or anger?) on Duncan's mind when he passed a ball to Beno near the end of the 1st/ or 2ndQ?. Or am I again dreaming? i need to see the replay but it was a disappointed kind of look from Tim when actually Beno was open and if he made it it could have been add'l pts and asst for Tim.

[objective]

Do you think the Spurs are all of a sudden going to draft American?

MAYBE that's why they hired a director of college player personnel right before the season started, so they don't have to rely on Sam Presti's rumor connections about a legendary player that no one else knows about or cares about.

[The Truth #6]

God, I hope Horry retires and moves into the FO instead. When he spoke at the mall in December he mentioned he wants to play THREE more years after this one. People cheered but I was mortified.

[Bruno]

Horry last year of his contract isn't fully guaranteed, I really think that this year is his last year.

[Mr. Body]

I notice the frustration(or anger?) on Duncan's mind when he passed a ball to Beno near the end of the 1st/ or 2ndQ?. Or am I again dreaming? i need to see the replay but it was a disappointed kind of look from Tim when actually Beno was open and if he made it it could have been add'l pts and asst for Tim.

Maybe, but this is the guy (Duncan) who dumped it to Francisco Elson, who was standing right next to him under the bucket, instead of going up strong himself.

[boutons_]

"dumped it to Francisco Elson, who was standing right next to him under the bucket, instead of going up strong himself."

yep, weird fucking thing to do! Just trying to get FE involved?

[Mr. Body]

"dumped it to Francisco Elson, who was standing right next to him under the bucket, instead of going up strong himself."

yep, weird fucking thing to do! Just trying to get FE involved?

Dunno, but my wife started screaming at him. As a Knicks fan she said she can't watch another team dedicated to giving her fits of apoplexy.

[SAGambler]

Beno is, I hate this guy more than ANY player the Spurs have ever had, is Pop just fucking blind? Cant he see this guy doesnt contribute ANYTHING?

And I think Pop can blame himself for a lot of that. His benching Beno most of last year with is NVE experiment not only failed, but sucked any confindence Beno had right out of him.

Shots that used to be money when he first came here are way off the mark. I think he is playing scared, so afraid if he screws up one time, he will ride the pine again for most of the season.

I think they need to trade Beno. Now it would help the Spurs and it could help Beno become the player that so many people think he is capable of.

And of course with Vaughn, gee, might as well have Nick back.

[objective]

And I think Pop can blame himself for a lot of that. His benching Beno most of last year with is NVE experiment not only failed, but sucked any confindence Beno had right out of him.

Exactly. After a promising rookie year where he had some hiccups in the playoffs and struggled agaist a great defensive team in the finals, the Spurs ruined him.

They sent him a clear message last season: We will play NVE over you everytime, and he misses most of his shots, jacks up bad shots, plays the worst defense imaginable and is all around awful. If you want to play, you have to play like that.

So Beno heard their message loud and clear. He's only giving the Spurs what they want. He's turned into NVE.

[Mr. Body]

Beno Udrih is San Antonio's Rick Ankiel.

[baseline bum]

I notice the frustration(or anger?) on Duncan's mind when he passed a ball to Beno near the end of the 1st/ or 2ndQ?. Or am I again dreaming? i need to see the replay but it was a disappointed kind of look from Tim when actually Beno was open and if he made it it could have been add'l pts and asst for Tim.

How long has it been since Beno hit an open shot? :lol

I wouldn't pass it to him either. Beno could just sit at the scorer's table after checking in and it would have the exact same impact.

[VaSpursFan]

I wouldn't pass it to him either. Beno could just sit at the scorer's table after checking in and it would have the exact same impact.

:lol :lol :lol i think we would be better off if beno sat at the table after checking in. that way, he won't make any turnovers!

[Spurs Brazil]

Beno sucks but then I look at ours C and they suck as much as Beno

SAD

[1Parker1]

Whatever happened to the idea of giving Brent Barry more minutes at the point?

Though, after his shitty passing last night, I guess I'd reconsider that also.

[Amarelooms]

The Mavs will give ya'll Anthony Johnson for Beno and Barry