Is this team simply not good enough?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Now wait

I know it's been painfully obvious that many of us have been dying for a trade to happen. And looking at the thread title and poster you probably expect this to be another bitchfest from me, but I'm just asking honestly


With the roster we have (when fully healthy) is this not enough to beat PHX and DAL in a 7 game series?


I think we easily could've been 3-0 on the current road trip as oppose to 1-2


With Utah we had SO many oppurtunities to win the game that it sucked to let it slip away. Getting outrebounded that badly and STILL being in the game had to be encouraging.

Phoenix we were neck and neck with them and while I refuse to blame the refs (I never agree with blaming the officiating for a loss), I think had duncan been simply hitting shots he ALWAYS hits around the basket we could've had a very different outcome.


I think once Elson becomes 100% healthy and Bonner comes back I think we may surprise ourselves at how well well play. I think the D has been pretty solid the past few games but with the offense we seem to get out of sync way too often.

Maybe we HAVE to have a trade to win it all this year, maybe finley, barry, and horry are a lot more over the hill than we anticipated and that the level we need our bench to play at consistently to beat the west's elite in a 7 game series is too much to ask for (Maybe, I don't know)


But with everyone healthy, and with 3 months still left to go, we may not catch PHX and DAL in the standings but does this roster not have the potential to go all the way? If we don't have a trade after the deadline is our season finished?

I know I haven't said anything new at all (and if this could've been merged in another thread my apologies Kori) but instead of clamoring for a trade that may or may not happen, is this roster really as bad as we think it is?

[Mr. Body]

But with everyone healthy, and with 3 months still left to go, we may not catch PHX and DAL in the standings but does this roster not have the potential to go all the way? If we don't have a trade after the deadline is our season finished?

The season is not finished. The Spurs are a top team still. If they pull a 3 seed and Phoenix pulls the 2, there is a decent chance the Spurs can make it to the WCF, where willpower and determined and inspired performances by the Big Three could give the team an opportunity to get past Dallas... so long as the Spurs match the Mavs' inherent hunger and drive. After that, the Finals should be a cakewalk.

But it's a long road to hoe. There are large problems with this team and I don't expect the aged to suddenly get less old.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The season is not finished. The Spurs are a top team still. If they pull a 3 seed and Phoenix pulls the 2, there is a decent chance the Spurs can make it to the WCF, where willpower and determined and inspired performances by the Big Three could give the team an opportunity to get past Dallas... so long as the Spurs match the Mavs' inherent hunger and drive. After that, the Finals should be a cakewalk.

But it's a long road to hoe. There are large problems with this team and I don't expect the aged to suddenly get less old.

exactly, I think a lot of us were expecting an overnight change from this team and rip out a 16 game win streak, but maybe the reality is that they're simply taking baby steps to get to where they need to be.

I mean the D used to be brutal but I think it has improved substantially for the most part. It maybe isn't championship D but we're getting there.

[Mr. Body]

I don't mind the losses. I mean, a better draft pick could actually help out this year, instead of constantly falling short of getting our guy. It's the fact that they don't look like they can compete down the stretch with the top 10 teams at the moment. Somebody on the bench has to step up.

[dg7md]

Spurs don't need a high seed in the playoffs anyway, lower draft pick and they suck at home.

[dallaskd]

their good enough to get past the first round but no further, they really had a chance to beat pheonix.

[MannyIsGod]

In a seven game series, I think we beat the Suns. At worst we have to be at least even money to beat them. But Dallas is another animal because they are so well coached. I think Dallas is a step above every other team in the league at this point, but in a single series anything is possible.

[objective]

With the roster we have (when fully healthy) is this not enough to beat PHX and DAL in a 7 game series?


I think we easily could've been 3-0 on the current road trip as oppose to 1-2

is it enough? No.

btw, neither the Lakers, Jazz, or Suns were 'fully healthy'. You had a rusty Odom and no Kwame for the Lakers, No Boozer for the Jazz, and no Bell for most of the Suns game.

They could easily be 0-3, if Finley didn't pull off his modest shooting game against the Lakers. So he had one good game out of . . . 40? 2 out of 40? In a seven game series when he's even older . . . no.

[slayermin]

The West is as tough as ever. But even as good as the west is, I don't fear any team. The Mavs are good and will be a tough match.

But was there any larger obstacle than the Shaq/Kobe Lakers?

I have a quiet confidence in this team because the core has been through it all. I don't think they fear any one in the west either.

[itzsoweezee]

they're good enough if popovich forgets small ball completely.
if popovich plays elson and bonner more and finley less.

if only they would've gotten scola.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

they're good enough if popovich forgets small ball completely.
if popovich plays elson and bonner more and finley less.

if only they would've gotten scola.

I'm not as sold on scola as some of the other posters here


I agree we need to give up on small ball, once Pop tries to play at the other teams' tempo as oppose to forcing our own we become dead meat

[ALVAREZ6]

This team is obviously not good enough. You need a strong bench and have options in the playoffs. Dallas has a bunch of different options in terms or deciding when to start certain players and shit like that.

I'm NOT saying this team won't succeed in the playoffs, I'm not saying they won't go to the finals, but as of right now this roster doesn't look like it can manage it. It's either that or the players just don't give a fuck about winning right now, which is hard to see because guys like Manu, TD, TP, and Bowen bust their balls every game.

[bonesinaz]

Spam

[SenorSpur]

I don't mind the losses. I mean, a better draft pick could actually help out this year, instead of constantly falling short of getting our guy. It's the fact that they don't look like they can compete down the stretch with the top 10 teams at the moment. Somebody on the bench has to step up.


That's a good silver lining. But wait, they'll probably use said draft pick on another international player who we'll never hear of until 5 years down the road.

The time is now to invest in some domestic talent.

[SenorSpur]

This team is obviously not good enough. You need a strong bench and have options in the playoffs. Dallas has a bunch of different options in terms or deciding when to start certain players and shit like that.

I'm NOT saying this team won't succeed in the playoffs, I'm not saying they won't go to the finals, but as of right now this roster doesn't look like it can manage it. It's either that or the players just don't give a fuck about winning right now, which is hard to see because guys like Manu, TD, TP, and Bowen bust their balls every game.

Understand. I'll never accuse them of not caring, being careless maybe, but never not caring. I think it's a matter of PHX and DAL both being teams on the upswing. Those teams have gotten better since last year. PHX added a healthy Amare and of course Nash is playing even better than his MVP level of a year ago. The Mavs, getting consistent contributions from Dirk, Terry, and of course Josh (why R.C. why) are the deepest team in the league.

The Spurs, on the other hand, have regressed to a degree. So while this team may be good enough to get through 1 or 2 rounds of the playoffs, at this moment, they don't seem to be good enough to conquer Dallas.

[leemajors]

we really won't know anything until that first playoff series starts. hopefully there is an on switch somewhere and it can be flipped. of course, i would be concerned if they swept their first round opponent too and got complacent. momentum going into the playoffs would be nice, but we'll see what happens.

[ALVAREZ6]

I think it's a matter of PHX and DAL both being teams on the upswing. Those teams have gotten better since last year. PHX added a healthy Amare and of course Nash is playing even better than his MVP level of a year ago. The Mavs, getting consistent contributions from Dirk, Terry, and of course Josh (why R.C. why) are the deepest team in the league.

That's true, but that doesn't mean that just because 2 teams are a lot better doesn't mean that the Spurs can't improve either. The Suns and Mavs improvement has no effect on the Spurs sucking, it all the Spurs. 2 teams got really good, so what, do something about it. The Spurs regressing when they should be progressing if they want to make another title run. I personally think last year was the Spurs last chance at winning the title in these years. All they had to do was beat Dallas and then face a then much weaker team in the western conference finals in order to get to another team in the finals that wasn't as hard to beat as Dalllas or tough to beat as Sacramento for the Spurs last year. Dallas got a lot better from last year which means the Spurs are fucked, I don't see them beating Dalals this year in 7 games, but anything can happen. Another team can always explode and send the Mavs out of the postseason for the Spurs.

But in order to ensure another title run, the Spurs need to improve themselves instead of observing their surroundngs and hoping for things to happen. The Spurs need to enter the playoffs at top notch level if they want to do anything in the playoffs. If not, I doubt another title for many years. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[Holt's Cat]

We have found that there indeed is a price tag on a NBA championship.

[ploto]

is it enough? No.

btw, neither the Lakers, Jazz, or Suns were 'fully healthy'. You had a rusty Odom and no Kwame for the Lakers, No Boozer for the Jazz, and no Bell for most of the Suns game.

The previous Spurs loss against the Lakers was without Odom and the Suns were also missing Kurt Thomas. The Spurs can't really blame their losses on no Bonner. There also seems to be this notion that the Spurs have not gelled yet this season but 9 of the top 12 are the same.

[kevm2]

This team isn't good enough. When The big three go out, this team falls apart. We have no real option at center, so we will continually be outrebounded. We also have no real backup point.

[conversekid]

I think a healthy bonner changes the face of this team completely. A big with a good outside shot and decent speed for a big. We'll need a healthy bonner taking minutes from the other bigs to compete with Dallas. I'm not so concerned about Phx... i think we got caught up in trying to play to up tempo last night. The way we defended the nash/amare tandem in the lane the first half is how you beat phx. time and time again, tony was blocking that easy pass dunk from nash to amare they always do. Phx is doable in a 7 game series; dallas on the other hand...

[Pugglekicker_21]

where is scola? i mean is he still in europe or was he traded? if we still have his rights why not buy him out and bring him over?

[phyzik]

After Miami won the title over Dallas, Im willling to believe anything, they have to be the sorriest NBA champs ever....

[objective]

where is scola? i mean is he still in europe or was he traded? if we still have his rights why not buy him out and bring him over?

Because he's under 30, can dunk and can score.

[ploto]

I think a healthy bonner changes the face of this team completely.

So Matt Bonner with his 39% 3 point FG% and his 0.18 blocks per game is the difference maker?

And don't get me wrong. He's a nice guy to bring off the bench for say 10 -15 minutes per game with some hustle and energy. But he is not a starting caliber NBA player.

[Manu_The _Best]

The season is not finished. The Spurs are a top team still. If they pull a 3 seed and Phoenix pulls the 2, there is a decent chance the Spurs can make it to the WCF, where willpower and determined and inspired performances by the Big Three could give the team an opportunity to get past Dallas... so long as the Spurs match the Mavs' inherent hunger and drive. After that, the Finals should be a cakewalk.

But it's a long road to hoe. There are large problems with this team and I don't expect the aged to suddenly get less old.

It is always good to live in a "Fantasy NBA league" - I am second currently in my league, we the hope to GET FIRST by the end of the season...dreamers, dreamers, dreamers... :clap :clap :clap

GO SPURS!!!
Beno is finished

[ALVAREZ6]

Because he's under 30, can dunk and can score.
Re-read the post that you quoted.

[SenorSpur]

That's true, but that doesn't mean that just because 2 teams are a lot better doesn't mean that the Spurs can't improve either. The Suns and Mavs improvement has no effect on the Spurs sucking, it all the Spurs. 2 teams got really good, so what, do something about it. The Spurs regressing when they should be progressing if they want to make another title run. I personally think last year was the Spurs last chance at winning the title in these years. All they had to do was beat Dallas and then face a then much weaker team in the western conference finals in order to get to another team in the finals that wasn't as hard to beat as Dalllas or tough to beat as Sacramento for the Spurs last year. Dallas got a lot better from last year which means the Spurs are fucked, I don't see them beating Dalals this year in 7 games, but anything can happen. Another team can always explode and send the Mavs out of the postseason for the Spurs.

But in order to ensure another title run, the Spurs need to improve themselves instead of observing their surroundngs and hoping for things to happen. The Spurs need to enter the playoffs at top notch level if they want to do anything in the playoffs. If not, I doubt another title for many years. And there's nothing wrong with that.

You must remember that older teams seldom get better over the long haul. They tend to wear down over the course of a long season. Miami was certainly the exception last year. Of course, they coasted most of the year too.

[mavs>spurs2]

The spurs problem is that they aren't playing their cards right. Instead of taking advantage of their strengths they try to play small ball which only works for young, athletic teams. The spurs are a totally different team when they go big, small ball just won't work for them. If Popovich can ever understand that then the spurs will be contenders.

[rascal]

Phoenix and Dallas are just better talent wise. They are deeper then the spurs.

Don't forget Houston and Denver. Those two teams if healthy can also beat the spurs in the playoffs this year.

[conversekid]

So Matt Bonner with his 39% 3 point FG% and his 0.18 blocks per game is the difference maker?

And don't get me wrong. He's a nice guy to bring off the bench for say 10 -15 minutes per game with some hustle and energy. But he is not a starting caliber NBA player.

Bonner is a fearless player. He steps in to shoot without reserve... given solid minutes, he'd be one less bench player we'd complain about. I don't think he's the "answer" to the Spurs woes... but he'll give us solid bench play, something we need terribly.

[DDS4]

Spurs have the most room to improve. That to me is encouraging.

We're still in games with only the big 3 contributing. Once a few guys get on board, things will get better.

[Tom_Foolery]

I don't mind the losses. I mean, a better draft pick could actually help out this year, instead of constantly falling short of getting our guy. It's the fact that they don't look like they can compete down the stretch with the top 10 teams at the moment. Somebody on the bench has to step up.


how much better can a draft pick be between 25-30?

[Tom_Foolery]

Spurs have the most room to improve. That to me is encouraging.

We're still in games with only the big 3 contributing. Once a few guys get on board, things will get better.


we also got beat by a houston team w/o yao and tracy, not to mention a suns team not playing their best basketball(as nash has stated). I'm not sure how bad we are, but if the playoffs started, we'd definitely get beat by phoenix and dallas.

[ChumpDumper]

It's not good enough.

Where's my cookie?

[1Parker1]

Anytime you have Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, and Manu Ginobili playing at the level they've been playing at for the past couple of games, you're team is going to have a chance to win or steal any game in the playoffs.

Problem is, this year, the West has gotten significantly more difficult, with the top 6 seeds able to upset any other team. That's why the Spurs problems look even more glaring to us fans. Last season it was really just between the Spurs and the Mavs. Suns were without Amare, Lakers were still a one man show, Rockets were without Yao/McGrady, Utah was completely out of it, etc. Now this season, all of a sudden you have a surge of great teams playing well above .500.

Spurs problems right now isn't just the Mavs and Suns of the league. It's also the Lakers, Jazz, Rockets, etc.

[bresilhac]

Now wait

I know it's been painfully obvious that many of us have been dying for a trade to happen. And looking at the thread title and poster you probably expect this to be another bitchfest from me, but I'm just asking honestly


With the roster we have (when fully healthy) is this not enough to beat PHX and DAL in a 7 game series?


I think we easily could've been 3-0 on the current road trip as oppose to 1-2


With Utah we had SO many oppurtunities to win the game that it sucked to let it slip away. Getting outrebounded that badly and STILL being in the game had to be encouraging.

Phoenix we were neck and neck with them and while I refuse to blame the refs (I never agree with blaming the officiating for a loss), I think had duncan been simply hitting shots he ALWAYS hits around the basket we could've had a very different outcome.


I think once Elson becomes 100% healthy and Bonner comes back I think we may surprise ourselves at how well well play. I think the D has been pretty solid the past few games but with the offense we seem to get out of sync way too often.

Maybe we HAVE to have a trade to win it all this year, maybe finley, barry, and horry are a lot more over the hill than we anticipated and that the level we need our bench to play at consistently to beat the west's elite in a 7 game series is too much to ask for (Maybe, I don't know)


But with everyone healthy, and with 3 months still left to go, we may not catch PHX and DAL in the standings but does this roster not have the potential to go all the way? If we don't have a trade after the deadline is our season finished?

I know I haven't said anything new at all (and if this could've been merged in another thread my apologies Kori) but instead of clamoring for a trade that may or may not happen, is this roster really as bad as we think it is?

I agree. There is nothing in this roster that would warrant a trade. A trade at this point not only would disrupt team unity and chemistry but most likely make things worse. I notice that when this team drops one ot two people panic on here. Screaming for trades and screaming about how the Spurs "suck". The only thing that sucks on here are reactionary, short-sighted fans with no memory. The Spurs still have 31 wins and will most likely make a run for the division, again. And if not they'll take their 55 wins and head into the playoffs for another run at the Title. What's to be upset about?

[conversekid]

people panic on here. Screaming for trades
Actually, folks have been talking about the need for a trade for quite some time. It's obvious we need a long, athletic 3, a solid backup point, and a decent big to play beside duncan. It's not panic to acknowledge this issue and discuss scenarios to address those positions.

[ArgSpursFan]

The spurs problem is that they aren't playing their cards right. Instead of taking advantage of their strengths they try to play small ball which only works for young, athletic teams. The spurs are a totally different team when they go big, small ball just won't work for them. If Popovich can ever understand that then the spurs will be contenders.

Well,the thing is that when the Old men´s bench goes to the floor,and the big 3 is getting a rest,they play
NO BALL,instead of small ball.

[Hoy]

There is nothing in this roster that would warrant a trade...What's to be upset about?
:dizzy

The possibillity that Bonner is our best reserve and prospect make me break out in panic sweat. And that is more rational reaction than Pop's inexplicable complaceny in the face of Spurs' season in collison course with disaster.

[boutons_]

"Lakers, Jazz, Rockets,"

Spurs will open the playoffs against one of them.
The best the Spurs can hope for is to finish 3rd or 4th to have first round HCA.

If the April Spurs can get out of the first round (the Jan/Feb Spurs probably won't), then the Spurs would see Mavs or Suns in the second round.

The current Spurs have almost no chance of getting to the 2007 WCF.

[SenorSpur]

I agree. There is nothing in this roster that would warrant a trade. A trade at this point not only would disrupt team unity and chemistry but most likely make things worse. I notice that when this team drops one ot two people panic on here. Screaming for trades and screaming about how the Spurs "suck". The only thing that sucks on here are reactionary, short-sighted fans with no memory. The Spurs still have 31 wins and will most likely make a run for the division, again. And if not they'll take their 55 wins and head into the playoffs for another run at the Title. What's to be upset about?

You guys need to get real. What have you been watching? I don't give a shit how many wins the team has now. Their success is measured by how they play against their top-tier opponents (PHX, DAL, HOU) and how they "dispose" of inferior opponents.

This team is struggling in various ways. They can't overcome their own shortcomings (age, poor perimeter play, backup PG, lack of reboudnng, inability to defend pick and rolls) long enough to be considered a threat to the likes of PHX and DAL in a series. They're margin for error is so slight that they almost have to play a PERFECT GAME to beat these teams.

WATCH THE DAMN GAME. If anyone thinks this current roster can and will be successful over the long haul, you're fooling yourselves. There has been a high standard of excellence set by this organization for a long time. Perhaps we're all a bit spoiled. I know I am. However just because some of us criticize the FO for not improving the team or make claims that this roster doesn't have the right parts doesn't mean we're any less of a Spurs fan than anyone who claims they "still believe".

As true Spurs fans (long time or short time) we all want the same thing -for our team to at least have a chance to contend for an NBA Championship. Duncan is not going to play forever. The Spurs ownership and FO have a responsibility to surround him with better players. Outside of Manu and Tony, they've failed. Therefore, no one in this organization is above criticism. They don't get a pass for that failure.

[td4mvp21]

I'm not giving up, our problem is inconsistency. So what if our guys are old, they can make up for it if they actually hit their shots. It's gonna take effort but we can do it. I think our best bet is if we get the 3 seed and Phoenix the 2. I think that's the best chance we have to get to the WCF's. Then we can see what happens from there (probably a loss to Dallas).

[wildbill2u]

Phoenix and Dallas are just better talent wise. They are deeper then the spurs.

Don't forget Houston and Denver. Those two teams if healthy can also beat the spurs in the playoffs this year.
Not to mention Utah and fast improving LALakers.

[Extra Stout]

So what if our guys are old, they can make up for it if they actually hit their shots.
Well, since they are older, it means they are slower and have less lift, so creating and hitting shots is more difficult for them.

Working harder does not solve being old; working harder just makes the body break down more quickly.

So basically, the Spurs are screwed.

[Mr. Body]

Not to mention Utah and fast improving LALakers.

I'm not sure I would pick the Spurs over: Dallas, Phoenix, Utah, Los Angeles, Houston.

Dallas definitely not. Phoenix probably not. Utah, Los Angeles, Houston would be very tough.

[objective]

Re-read the post that you quoted.

The post stands, it was a joke highlighting how anti-youth and anti-players-doing-something-well the Spurs appear to be.

If Scola was 30+, slower, and couldn't score or block the shots of Jermaine O'Neal and Elton Brand anymore . . . that's when the Spurs would bring him over.

[Dalhoop]

A few of you guys just don't understand the way the game is played. The Spurs have no choice but to play ball and get Finley and Barry on the floor. To compete with the top teams you HAVE to have scorers on the floor, the more the merrier.

What do these two line-ups have in common?

Nash, Bell, Marion, Amare, Daiw

Harris, Terry, Howard, Nowitzki, Dampier

Here is a hint: You cannot leave any of them to double team or they will burn you. The Spurs have not just one, but two "holes" in the starting five. A team can sag off of Bowen and whoever is at center (Elson not so much) to give help defense.

Going small is the only way, with the current roster of players, that the Spurs can cover this problem and come up with the scoring needed to beat these teams.

The top teams in the league are not there because the "adjust" to the style of the other team, they are there because the FORCE other teams to do things to their line-ups and rotations that they are not "built" to do.

The Spurs are built for a slow - run the clock - half court type of game. If they run, they loose; if the half court offense isn't working, they loose.

The Suns and Mavs CAN play slow ball, the Suns would most likely be the best in the league at it if they chose to be (They have a large number of "one-on-one" players and the best play maker in the league) But they don't because it would let the opposing teams "off the hook"

The Spurs can do nothing to "make other teams adjust" to their style of play, and take them out of "small ball"

What can they do? Elson and Oberto scare nobody in the league, Bonner scares nobody in the league (He is more of a "small ball" player anyway) That leave only Duncan as the only big that can put some level of fear into the opposing team, why would they want to put in a big just to Double Duncan when they could do the same with a second PF or SF?

Duncan would shoot over the PF-SF coming to double Is two inches in height really that much of a difference with a SF's leaping ability?

The Spurs can either play the line-up of Parker, Manu, Bowen, Duncan and Oberto and have their starting line-up get outscored by the deeper starting five of the Mavs and Suns, or try to get more scoring into the game by bringing in Finley and Barry early and playing "small ball".

The bottom line is that they are not deep enough to do either, by going small the bench has nothing left for substitutions.

Now I think that the Spurs are equipped to be competitive, but only by slowing the game down and executing the half court game to perfection. With their roster, they have to play big and MUST rebound the ball. Second shots for the Suns and Mavs turn into points.

This style of play (Like the Pistons a few years back) can yield results, but to beat the top teams ... They just don't have the number and types of players that they need.