Who got snubbed?

[dallaskd]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jack_mccallum/02/02/choosing.sides.anthony.howard/index.html

[Amare_32]

Josh Howard
Ben Gordon
Joe Johnson

[JMarkJohns]

Zach Randolph. Averages of 24 and 12 for any western big is impressive. I don't care his team's record. He was more deserving than either of the Phoenix forwards named and as deserving as any other forward outside of Garnett, Dirk and Duncan.

[Amare_32]

Zach Randolph. Averages of 24 and 12 for any western big is impressive. I don't care his team's record. He was more deserving than either of the Phoenix forwards named and as deserving as any other forward outside of Garnett, Dirk and Duncan.


I disagree with you. The Coaches would have been ripped if Zach got in over Amare,Dirk,Duncan or KG.

[JMarkJohns]

I disagree with you. The Coaches would have been ripped if Zach got in over Amare,Dirk,Duncan or KG.

Not over Duncan, Dirk or Garnett, but over every other big.

[Amare_32]

Not over Duncan, Dirk or Garnett, but over every other big.


Look at it this way. If he would have been put in over Amare and Dirk both the Suns or Mavs have a legit beef. A team win/loss record has to mean something. Plus you can't deny Amare is having a good year.

[Greg Oden]

The all-star game is nothing but a popularity contest. If Randolph did windmill dunks every game, he'd be a starter.

[JMarkJohns]

Not over Dirk. Nor Duncan. Nor Garnett.

I don't know, you tell me... 24 and 12 or 19 and 9?

I understand the whole "team thing" but that shouldn't factor in that much in All-Star teams. 24-12 is much more deserving than 19-9.

[Amare_32]

Not over Dirk. Nor Duncan. Nor Garnett.

I don't know, you tell me... 24 and 12 or 19 and 9?

I understand the whole "team thing" but that shouldn't factor in that much in All-Star teams. 24-12 is much more deserving than 19-9.

Yes the numbers favor Zach but is a soft 24-12. He is like Webber when he was with the 76ers. The numbers are just stat fillers. Plus his rep for clashing with his coaches hurts him in the voting.

[JMarkJohns]

That's complete bullshit. As a big, you can't put up a soft 24-12 in the Western Conference. Also, Webber was in the East when he put up nearly 20-10 with the '6ers. I'll by his rep hurting him, but that wasn't the purpose of the thread which simply asked who was snubbed, as in who was deserving but won't make the team.

Randolph and his unsoft 24-12 is the biggest snub.

[Amare_32]

That's complete bullshit. As a big, you can't put up a soft 24-12 in the Western Conference. Also, Webber was in the East when he put up nearly 20-10 with the '6ers. I'll by his rep hurting him, but that wasn't the purpose of the thread which simply asked who was snubbed, as in who was deserving but won't make the team.

Randolph and his unsoft 24-12 is the biggest snub.

Fine thats your opinion,mine is hell will freeze over before he is an All Star. First his team is below .500 he has a bad rep plus the depth of the forward position in the West.

[JMarkJohns]

Also, it's not like Randolph struggles against good teams. He averages 25-11 vs. .500 or better teams and 23-10 vs. the top-5 recorded teams in the NBA.

He's very deserving and his stats are not soft.

[Amare_32]

That's complete bullshit. As a big, you can't put up a soft 24-12 in the Western Conference. Also, Webber was in the East when he put up nearly 20-10 with the '6ers. I'll by his rep hurting him, but that wasn't the purpose of the thread which simply asked who was snubbed, as in who was deserving but won't make the team.

Randolph and his unsoft 24-12 is the biggest snub.

You tell how many games have they won with him putting up those numbers.

[dallaskd]

zach randolph should have gotten in as well as melo(30 ppg) but as much as i want josh howard to get in there wasnt a sopt for him. no way tony parker should have gotten in but whatever, its a popularity contest and a joke game, im glad j-ho didnt get in so he doesnt get hurt.

[JMarkJohns]

Maybe you should understand basketball before you form such unflinching opinions.

All those reasons you mention speak to why he was snubbed, not that he wasn't deserving.

[JMarkJohns]

You tell how many games have they won with him putting up those numbers.

Tell me where it says a team's record should factor into an individual player honor.

I'm not saying it doesn't, just that it shouldn't.

[ponky]

why are you suns fans arguing with each other?!?!?!??!...news alert: you have THREE all-stars in the game :) :) :)

[dallaskd]

Tell me where it says a team's record should factor into an individual player honor.

I'm not saying it doesn't, just that it shouldn't.

team success should factor into MVP but not all star game. all star game is about the best players in the NBA.

[Amare_32]

Maybe you should understand basketball before you form such unflinching opinions.

All those reasons you mention speak to why he was snubbed, not that he wasn't deserving.

Hey you the one that said he deserves a spot not me. Personally I think there are more deserving players like,Josh Howard and Carmelo. Zach is a talented player but the fact remains he is putting up good numbers on a losing team. I have no problem if he made the team if players like Howard and Carmelo were not snubbed by the fans or coaches.

[JMarkJohns]

And to answer your question, jackass, the Blazers are 11-10 when Randolph scores 25 points or more. Considering the Blazers are just 20-27, I'd say they very much need his 25-11 vs. .500 teams.

Eat your own bullshit, please...

[Amare_32]

why are you suns fans arguing with each other?!?!?!??!...news alert: you have THREE all-stars in the game :) :) :)


Because the Bulls/Sonics game is :sleep

[ponky]

Because the Bulls/Sonics game is :sleep

it is, but the blazers/nuggets game is close

[dallaskd]

And to answer your question, jackass, the Blazers are 11-10 when Randolph scores 25 points or more. Considering the Blazers are just 20-27, I'd say they very much need his 25-11 vs. .500 teams.

Eat your own bullshit, please...

yeah because his team SUCKS! the all star game is about the BEST PLAYERS. not their teams records.

[JMarkJohns]

Hey you the one that said he deserves a spot not me. Personally I think there are more deserving players like,Josh Howard and Carmelo. Zach is a talented player but the fact remains he is putting up good numbers on a losing team. I have no problem if he made the team if players like Howard and Carmelo were not snubbed by the fans or coaches.

Carmelo was snubbed because of his hit-n-run. Fine. Got it. Randolph's numbers are better than Howard's, Marion's, Amare's and Brand's and as good as Boozer's and Carmelo's.

His team sucks, but plays much better when Randolph scores more. If such is the case, which it is, then his averages can't be looked at in a negative light as just another player with good numbers on a bad team. They need his numbers.

[JMarkJohns]

yeah because his team SUCKS! the all star game is about the BEST PLAYERS. not their teams records.

That's my point. I'm only giving these stats to prove Randolph's worth because other's say he's undeserving.

[Amare_32]

And to answer your question, jackass, the Blazers are 11-10 when Randolph scores 25 points or more. Considering the Blazers are just 20-27, I'd say they very much need his 25-11 vs. .500 teams.

Eat your own bullshit, please...

Fine whatever is obvious trying to talk sense to you is pointless. Like hitting a wall. :bang

[JMarkJohns]

Fine whatever is obvious trying to talk sense to you is pointless. Like hitting a wall. :bang

Please. Your opinion is that an individual honor should be predicated upon a player's team success rather than his individual statistical production. When all you BS arguements failed to prove he wasn't worthy, you resorted to pulling the "bad teammate/player... bad rap" card. Which is fine, but like I said, such only speaks to WHY he's been snubbed, not whether he should be.

I'm saying he was snubbed and will accept the "bad teammate/player... bad rap" card as the reason why, because clearly his stats and their importance to his team aren't the reason. His team is over .500 when he scores 25 points or more. He averages 25 and 11 vs. .500 or better teams, so clearly he puts up the numbers on the better teams in the League.

You, meanwhile, argue that he wasn't snubbed because he wasn't deserving because his team is bad, his numbers in the west are soft and his team doesn't need him.

You, my friend, are the one who needs all the sense you can get, so, if you don't mind, reread my post and learn something.

[ponky]

hey NuGGeTs-FaN, good game so far

[JamStone]

Zach Randolph. Averages of 24 and 12 for any western big is impressive. I don't care his team's record. He was more deserving than either of the Phoenix forwards named and as deserving as any other forward outside of Garnett, Dirk and Duncan.


Since when was 10.5 rpg rounded up to 12 rpg??? And, that 10.5 was even less than that since the last three games he's had 17, 13, and 12 rebounds. You don't need to puff up his numbers. 10.5 rpg is still a great rebounding average.

For someone who puts up big scoring numbers for a post player, he shoots 46% from the field. Most dominant big men at least approach 50% if not shoot higher than that. He takes 19 shots a game and 7 free throws a game. You would hope he could average 20+ ppg.

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be an all star. He's worthy. But, I don't know if he's the most egregious snub, considering the coaches left off the league scoring leader.




The most notable snubs: Carmelo, Josh Howard, Joe Johnson
Could make an argument they were snubbed: Elton Brand, Zach Randolph, Mehmet Okur, Eddy CUrry, Deron Williams, Emeka Okafor, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon

In the Western Conference, it's hard to call worthy players snubs since there are so many "worthy" all stars. It's just how it is. There are going to be players who are worthy but don't get invited. It doesn't mean they're not worthy or got snubbed. It could mean there were just other players that deserved to be there just as much, and maybe slightly more.

I do question Tony Parker's selection, Chauncey Billups' selection, and Vince Carter's selection. They are doing well, but I would have taken other players ahead of them if I were voting.

[Amare_32]

Please. Your opinion is that an individual honor should be predicated upon a player's team success rather than his individual statistical production. When all you BS arguements failed to prove he wasn't worthy, you resorted to pulling the "bad teammate/player... bad rap" card. Which is fine, but like I said, such only speaks to WHY he's been snubbed, not whether he should be.

I'm saying he was snubbed and will accept the "bad teammate/player... bad rap" card as the reason why, because clearly his stats and their importance to his team aren't the reason. His team is over .500 when he scores 25 points or more. He averages 25 and 11 vs. .500 or better teams, so clearly he puts up the numbers on the better teams in the League.

You, meanwhile, argue that he wasn't snubbed because he wasn't deserving because his team is bad, his numbers in the west are soft and his team doesn't need him.

You, my friend, are the one who needs all the sense you can get, so, if you don't mind, reread my post and learn something.

Sorry my mistake here I am thinking that basketball is a team sport. Forget about Howard,Boozer,Melo. Winning has to mean something. I can't see rewarding players on losing teams. They are not even in the playoff picture. If it was that Portland at least was in the playoff race maybe you can make a case for him. I just think that in the West their are more deserving players than him.

[Purple & Gold]

Zach is more deserving than Amare.

[JMarkJohns]

Since when was 10.5 rpg rounded up to 12 rpg??? And, that 10.5 was even less than that since the last three games he's had 17, 13, and 12 rebounds. You don't need to puff up his numbers. 10.5 rpg is still a great rebounding average.

I believe I started to correcting the stats mid-way through. You are correct, I gave him an extra rebound, thinking he was averaging over 11 per.



For someone who puts up big scoring numbers for a post player, he shoots 46% from the field. Most dominant big men at least approach 50% if not shoot higher than that. He takes 19 shots a game and 7 free throws a game. You would hope he could average 20+ ppg.

Ehh... FG% means something, but as said, his team actually does better when he scores more. If his percentage isn't that good, but his team does better when he scores/thus shoots more, then it doesn't matter as much to me. Still, 46% is nothing to snear at. It's not Shaq-like, but for a guy facing cconstant double-teams because his teammates suck, it's understandable.


I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be an all star. He's worthy. But, I don't know if he's the most egregious snub, considering the coaches left off the league scoring leader.

Carmelo was snubbed because he's a bitch. Maybe it's the same reason for Randolph. Who knows. Yes, both are deserving, but, and maybe I should have prefaced this from the beginning, my original intent was to say Randolph, because I believe Howard and Caremlo will be named to the team, thus are All-Stars, thus not eligible for this debate... but that's probably assuming too much.



The most notable snubs: Carmelo, Josh Howard, Joe Johnson
Could make an argument they were snubbed: Elton Brand, Zach Randolph, Mehmet Okur, Eddy CUrry, Deron Williams, Emeka Okafor, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon

In the Western Conference, it's hard to call worthy players snubs since there are so many "worthy" all stars. It's just how it is. There are going to be players who are worthy but don't get invited. It doesn't mean they're not worthy or got snubbed. It could mean there were just other players that deserved to be there just as much, and maybe slightly more.

I do question Tony Parker's selection, Chauncey Billups' selection, and Vince Carter's selection. They are doing well, but I would have taken other players ahead of them if I were voting.

I'll agree with all this. Parker's spot should have went to Iverson, Iverson's wildcard to Carmelo or Howard and then the newly opened replacement to Randolph.

[ponky]

Sorry my mistake here I am thinking that basketball is a team sport. Forget about Howard,Boozer,Melo. Winning has to mean something. I can't see rewarding players on losing teams. They are not even in the playoff picture. If it was that Portland at least was in the playoff race maybe you can make a case for him.

I agree with you, Zach Randolph is a very good baller but I don't think teams that aren't even at least in the playoff race or under 0.500 in the West should be considered...we can't help the crappy East, they HAVE to pick someone, haha!

SOOOOOOOOO, since it IS a team sport and the Mavericks have the BEST record in the West, and they DO NOT have 3 ALL-STARS HELPING EACH OTHER OUT....JHO GOT SNUBBED BIG TIME THANKS TO MARION!!!

haha, i pretend like i don't care....but i do! anyway, i'm just kidding suns fans...and i'm tipsy and bored even if this nuggets/blazers game is kind of interesting

[JMarkJohns]

Sorry my mistake here I am thinking that basketball is a team sport. Forget about Howard,Boozer,Melo. Winning has to mean something. I can't see rewarding players on losing teams. They are not even in the playoff picture. If it was that Portland at least was in the playoff race maybe you can make a case for him. I just think that in the West their are more deserving players than him.

You are so effin' dense. Winning has to mean something. OK, well his team wins more when he scores more.

Your criteria is far too subjective and way too overthought.

[ponky]

Yay!

[Purple & Gold]

:clap :clap :clap

[Amare_32]

You are so effin' dense. Winning has to mean something. OK, well his team wins more when he scores more.

Your criteria is far too subjective and way too overthought.

He is shooting 47% against the playoff teams in the West while that is not bad is not great for a big. This includes a 1 for 12 game against the Nuggets stellar defense. Lets agree to disagree in the end All Star selections are pretty much which players are your preference and every person has different criteria. Plus like I posted before the forward position in the West is really deep.

[Amare_32]

You are so effin' dense. Winning has to mean something. OK, well his team wins more when he scores more.

Your criteria is far too subjective and way too overthought.

Yet they are still 20-27. Let me know when they reach .500.

[ponky]

:corn:

:cheer Amare_32 :cheer

[Amare_32]

:corn:

:cheer Amare_32 :cheer


:lol

[Purple & Gold]

:corn:

:cheer Amare_32 :cheer
:lol :lol

[ponky]

blazers getting ready to lose tonight to the nuggets, 2 pt. game, nuggets ball, 6 secs left

[ponky]

FUCK, heh

OVERTIME!!!!!!!!!

who will win the battle of the blazer stats as they pertain to tonight?!?!?!?!

[Amare_32]

FUCK, heh


?

[Purple & Gold]

Brand with 26 pts 19 boards 4 blocks.

[Amare_32]

Brand with 26 pts 19 boards 4 blocks.

Now he is an All Star. He is finally playing like he was last year.

[Purple & Gold]

Now he is an All Star. He is finally playing like he was last year.
Him and Cassell make the team go. Maggette for Artest would be a great trade for them if they can still make it happen.

[ponky]

steve blake is EN FUEGO!!!! 14 assists, and he's taken over in OT

[Flight3107]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/02-07/0203howard2.jpg

[ponky]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/02-07/0203howard2.jpg


:lol :lol :lol

did you read the comments jho made about not getting on?!?!?!?! woohoo, i'm happy he didn't get the vote after reading those...payback!!!

[Flight3107]

:lol :lol :lol

did you read the comments jho made about not getting on?!?!?!?! woohoo, i'm happy he didn't get the vote after reading those...payback!!!

No, what did he say?

[ponky]

I predict JHO will have an even better second half of the season!
---------------------------------------------------------
Mav's snub: Addition by omission?

01:31 AM CST on Saturday, February 3, 2007

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]

Josh Howard had a feeling he was going to get the short end of the All-Star stick. And he has a few words of advice to all the Western Conference coaches who think he's not worthy.

Mainly, that they may be sorry they omitted him from their ballot.

Howard returned to Dallas on Friday wearing the big smile that only new fathers know. His son came into the world Wednesday night, less than 24 hours before Howard was left off of the All-Star reserves.

"I knew that was going to happen," Howard said. "I've been saying for a long time that the All-Star Game is overrated. I still have an opportunity because of those two guys who are hurt, but it's a long shot to me. So I'm looking forward to spending that time with my son."

Howard could still be in Las Vegas on Feb. 18, but it will require commissioner David Stern replacing one of the injured Western Conference stars, Carlos Boozer or Yao Ming, with Howard. Even if that happens, it's still a bit hollow because the coaches didn't vote him in.

Regardless, Howard will concentrate on the business at hand, which is keeping the Mavericks atop the NBA.

"Motivation, that's all I need," he said of the snub by coaches. "They don't want me to be an All-Star? I'm going to show them. I've been an underdog my whole life. This is just another step to prove everybody who didn't vote for me wrong."

Howard, in his fourth season, has plenty of good years ahead of him and he is likely to be an All-Star before his career is done. But nobody can take away the joy he had on Wednesday when, at 9:38 p.m., his first child was born.

"It's an amazing feeling being able to bring somebody else into this world," he said. "Last night [Thursday] was the first night I actually cried. I'm still stunned about it. All I could do was stare at him."

Howard didn't arrive back in Dallas until after Friday's practice, but teammates and coaches couldn't believe Howard didn't get the call for his first All-Star Game.

"We all know he's playing at an All-Star level," coach Avery Johnson said. "What kind of words? Disappointed? Disgrace?

"Last year when Detroit sent four guys, guys were playing at an All-Star level and their team was being rewarded for having a good record. We didn't get rewarded."

Why not?

"It's hard to figure out," he said. "But Josh is a team player and he'll try to make it next year. We got bigger fish to fry, but it's still disappointing."

As Dirk Nowitzki added, being an All-Star is not why he plays. But Howard is going through a proving process that Nowitzki also endured early in his career.

"I probably deserved to be on one before I made it the first time, so I guess it happens," he said. "You just have to keep working and keep showing the coaches you deserve it."

The Mavericks also felt that a double standard was at work in picking the teams. One argument made for Washington's Caron Butler making the Eastern Conference reserves was that he was averaging 20 points and eight rebounds and wasn't even his team's first option offensively.

Howard's numbers are virtually identical and neither is he the Mavericks' first option. And his team has the league's best record.

"It's like they're punishing us for being the Mavericks," Howard said.

Six teams with poorer records than the Mavericks placed at least two players in the All-Star Game.

"You couldn't help but notice that," said Jason Terry. "The Suns have three players, San Antone has two, but what can you do. You just go on about your business."

Howard said, "It just makes me stronger. I had a lot of family and friends call and say I was their all-star regardless. We [the Mavs] still got a lot to prove. They still don't think too much about us. We're going to be all right."

[Kori Ellis]

A lot of coaches are of the philosophy that anybody can put up good stats on a bad team. Thus, they are completely unimpressed by a guy like Randolph putting up 24 and 12 on a crappy team.

If you think about it this way, a bad team is still going to score over 85 ppg - so SOMEBODY is going to score. It's just not impressive to score 20 on a bad team.

Fair? Maybe not. But that's how it is.

I think the snubs were Carmelo (but I understand the league is sick of his antics, so I understand why) and JHoward.

[tlongII]

Zach was a snub. It is ridiculous that he isn't on the team. The team is light-years better than last year and Zach is a big reason along with Brandon Roy.