Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls

[thispego]

whats so different? forget that its a vaccine and that i likened it to an id chip

it's people in authority telling us what we have to do and people blindly accepting.
mandatory... :madrun

[Cant_Be_Faded]

:lol

CBF is all over the place. Its about Merck, Its about connections to Merck, Its about A Brave New World, its about other options, its about EVERYTHING.

I give up. The Victoria Posse is obviously correct. Peace.



Manny you have not said one damn thing in this entire thread that resembles an argument as to why this is good other than HPV is rampant.
At least im trying to say why I think what I do, lets see you chump dump me, right here, why is this a good idea the way they are coming out with it

at least bolster your pretentiousness with a logical argument, like the way you defend things in political forum
lets have it
other than HPV is rampant.

you're cherry picking what we've said so far and have conveniently ignored the fact that its not tested that long

[Viva Las Espuelas]

mandatory i.d. chip implants for all It's coming folks. I'm not commenting on the discussion going here currently. I'm just pointing out what I quoted and commenting on it.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny you have not said one damn thing in this entire thread that resembles an argument as to why this is good other than HPV is rampant.
At least im trying to say why I think what I do, lets see you chump dump me, right here, why is this a good idea the way they are coming out with it

at least bolster your pretentiousness with a logical argument, like the way you defend things in political forum
lets have it
other than HPV is rampant.

you're cherry picking what we've said so far and have conveniently ignored the fact that its not tested that longOk motherfucker, but first lets take a look:


Sounds like a lot of dumbasses in this thread who have never heard of Thalidomide CORSO


www.nosideeffects.trusteveryvaccine.org (http://www.nosideeffects.trusteveryvaccine.org/)
More required vaccinations, free mercury and poison for everyone!
Let's make it mandatory to inject our kids with something they have no choice over--and all to the benefit of Merck and Co! What a great republican. I want to go out right now and vote republican, even though there are no elections right now! As long as he makes laws where our kid have to be injected with things, in order for his supporters to make millions of dollars-i'm happy!

See what i mean...you see the word vaccine, all of a sudden this is a cure for someone in the midst of cancer?

Okay, take me to this world of vaccine fairies, and I will be happy too.
If the unthinkable happens and I end up having kids one day I am pretty fucking confident I will be able to raise them in a way to prevent them from having sex at the age of 11
No Johnny, I would propose we let the glorious system of free enterprise hook these chicks up with a vaccine, instead of letting Mr. Republican give sole rights to a single company.

But overall I am against vaccines in general, and if I have kids they will take the ones that government forces them to take, just like any other person in this free country.
Ok jackass, WHO is the one leading the pretention scoreboard here? And thats only a fraction of your posts.

[MannyIsGod]

Now, as far as the vaccine goes, I don't even know where to start. Do you want me to start with the excellent success it has had in its clinical trials to date? I don't understand why I need to prove shit to you when it the data is right there in front of you for you to see. All I have seen you toss about is one weak circumstantial piece of bullshit after another.

First, it was all about Merck and it's connections to Rick Perry. I know all about the pharma companies lobbies and how a high level Merck lobbyist was an aid to Rick Perry, but none of that changes the fact that this vaccine has been proven to work amazingly well. This isn't a product that is a piece of shit and is simply being used as a pork barrel favor, this is a project that has a shit load of merit. When you have to sit there and tell me how few American people are dying when it is more per year than have died in the entire Iraq conflict it shows me just how fucking weak your argument is. Don't marginalize lives that can be saved simply because they don't fit your fucking message board agenda. Furthermore, the faster this drug goes into mass production the faster the price drops and the faster lives can be saved across the world where HPV is a much larger problem.

Then there's the only issue on whether or not vaccines are safe. Do you really want to run the track record of vaccines and tell me the vast majority haven't proven to be a huge benefit to human society or did I miss the last small pox outbreak that killed hundreds of thousands of people? It is funny that you will jump and down on the science for human caused climate change but you quickly forget that when addressing the vaccines. Sure, government agency reports are good for climate change but not for drugs, right?

You've jumped all over the place and can't make an argument longer than a paragraph on any one subject because your case is weak on all fronts. The strongest leg you have to stand on is the lack of long term studies for the drug, but given the outstand clinical trials I don't think thats a very strong leg.

And then to finish it off, this isn't mandatory in any true sense. The biggest benefit from making it mandatory goes not to the drug company, but to those who might otherwise not be able to get access to the drug and are now able to get the vaccine SHOULD THEY DECIDE that is the appropriate course of action. No one is forced to do shit, but that seems to be a fact that you deem irrelevant only because it undermines your entire argument against it on any front. Props for being a reactionary. Hows that for retention?

[mookie2001]

not that I would ever wish this, CBF, but God forbid your daughter was raped by someone who had this STD.


I promise you that a parent - even more a parent of a little girl - has a totally different POV on stuff like that.


Good stuff, my favorite is all the childless men arguing against this.


you don't have any women in your life that might want to be protected against HPV in the next four years.


I pray that all of those against this have a daughter at some point and she is sexually active at age 12now thats pretention




parents are too stupid (or, to a lesser degree, uninformed) to do it voluntarily - Which is why a lot of things having to do with the wellbeing of kids are mandatorand this, read it 10 times and tell me thats not the most neocon shit youve ever read



and manny for the record is there any legit reason why any human being would be against this vaccine, or is everyone questioning it irrational?

[thispego]

Then there's the only issue on whether or not vaccines are safe. Do you really want to run the track record of vaccines and tell me the vast majority haven't proven to be a huge benefit to human society or did I miss the last small pox outbreak that killed hundreds of thousands of people? It is funny that you will jump and down on the science for human caused climate change but you quickly forget that when addressing the vaccines. Sure, government agency reports are good for climate change but not for drugs, right?
what if this happens to be one of the few that have disastrous long-term effects? then everyone would agree that they probably jumped the gun on this one. MANDATE CANCER VACCINES NOW!ASK QUESTIONS LATER!

[Spurminator]

and this, read it 10 times and tell me thats not the most neocon shit youve ever read

:lol

How is it any more Neocon than compulsory education? We're not talking about OnStar Brainchips here, it's a vaccine. This way, if parents don't know or care about the vaccine, their kid doesn't suffer the consequences.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

"Merck and the FDA have not been completely honest with the people about the pre-licensure clinical trials," said NVIC president Barbara Loe Fisher. "Merck's pre and post-licensure marketing strategy has positioned mass use of this vaccine by pre-teens as a morality play in order to avoid talking about the flawed science they used to get it licensed. This is not just about teenagers having sex, it is also about whether Gardasil has been proven safe and effective for little girls."

...

"There is too little long term safety and efficacy data, especially in young girls, and too little labeling information on contraindications for the CDC to recommend Gardasil for universal use, which is a signal for states to mandate it," said Fisher. "Nobody at Merck, the CDC or FDA know if the injection of Gardasil into all pre-teen girls - especially simultaneously with hepatitis B vaccine - will make some of them more likely to develop arthritis or other inflammatory autoimmune and brain disorders as teenagers and adults. With cervical cancer causing about one percent of all cancer deaths in American women due to routine pap screening, it was inappropriate for the FDA to fast track Gardasil. It is way too early to direct all young girls to get three doses of a vaccine that has not been proven safe or effective in their age group."

I have no idea where they fall politically...

http://www.909shot.com/PressReleases/pr62706gardasil.htm

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Now, as far as the vaccine goes, I don't even know where to start. Do you want me to start with the excellent success it has had in its clinical trials to date?


Can you link up the trial data of 9-15 year old girls? From what I've read it hasn't been made public or is virtually non-existent due to a small sample size(1200) and a short follow-up(18 months), but that article(s) was 6 months old.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

First of all I meant why this vaccine administered the way proposed is okay...not why the vaccine itself is okay...noone here is pro cancer.


I was pointing out things that I think are shady about this situation, based on the turns of the thread itself, i will admit at first i was being silly but then turned serious and its my fault for being misinterpreted based on that...however...


First, it was all about Merck and it's connections to Rick Perry. I know all about the pharma companies lobbies and how a high level Merck lobbyist was an aid to Rick Perry, but none of that changes the fact that this vaccine has been proven to work amazingly well. This isn't a product that is a piece of shit and is simply being used as a pork barrel favor, this is a project that has a shit load of merit. When you have to sit there and tell me how few American people are dying when it is more per year than have died in the entire Iraq conflict it shows me just how fucking weak your argument is. Don't marginalize lives that can be saved simply because they don't fit your fucking message board agenda. Furthermore, the faster this drug goes into mass production the faster the price drops and the faster lives can be saved across the world where HPV is a much larger problem.


When did I ever say few people were dying from HPV? CORSO
Also you sure did bolster your pretentiousness by again going out of your way to make it sound like you are the only politically active person in existence. Bravo manny, I am chumpdumped.
I also bet you approved of the Vioxx research after rigorous reading up on the subject too, huh. But that is circumstantial, my bad, the fact that people got hurt from something produced by this company in the past is circumstantial. And is a bad argument. My bad. Kudos.




Then there's the only issue on whether or not vaccines are safe. Do you really want to run the track record of vaccines and tell me the vast majority haven't proven to be a huge benefit to human society or did I miss the last small pox outbreak that killed hundreds of thousands of people? It is funny that you will jump and down on the science for human caused climate change but you quickly forget that when addressing the vaccines. Sure, government agency reports are good for climate change but not for drugs, right?

Obviously most work. And noone in here said otherwise. MOST, manny. I am science-minded, and thats why I am against a new vaccine being put on the same level as MMR. I believe in rigorous as all hell research in long term effects when it comes to injecting the human body with anything.

And if you want to really go into climate change manny, you are looking smarter.every.day. So i guess I have been CD'ed again.

You talk about data being right there in front of you, then my circumstantial shit. Well I like how you snuck in over long term effects. Props manny, the test trials for this drugs meet your standards. As long as they meet your standards, then labelling the drug 'mandatory' is okay for EVERYONE. That is such a good argument I feel like stopping right now.

Facts and circumstance? What is a FACT is that Perry has done shit like this his entire career (giving the nod to his supporters). I think this is wrong, in principle. That is why I fucking mentioned it right off the bat. I guess to geniuses like you this is circumstantial and not fact. I bow to your superior intellect. What is FACT is that allowing more than one company to mass produce it would only help the quality of this drug.

And its not mandatory in any true sense? Thats the biggest load of bull shit, the word mandatory is right there in front of you, I guess you ccould say the statement "The word mandatory is right there in front of you" is a FACT.

[Spurminator]

I'm open to the argument that Gardasil wasn't sufficiently tested. If enough in the medical community believe this is the case, they have until September 2008 to make their case.

[ploto]

If HPV caused the same proportion of men to have to have their penises cut off, you couldn't keep them from getting the vaccine.

[ploto]

The simple truth is this...

People make mistakes. Young people especially make mistakes with their sexuality. They shouldn't have to die for them if it can be prevented.

[ChumpDumper]

And its not mandatory in any true sense? Thats the biggest load of bull shit, the word mandatory is right there in front of you, I guess you ccould say the statement "The word mandatory is right there in front of you" is a FACT.
Texas allows parents to opt out of inoculations by filing an affidavit stating that he or she objected to the vaccine for religious or philosophical reasons.I think that's what he meant.

[Kori Ellis]

Can you link up the trial data of 9-15 year old girls? From what I've read it hasn't been made public or is virtually non-existent due to a small sample size(1200) and a short follow-up(18 months), but that article(s) was 6 months old.

At first glance, this is the most extensive trial data I've seen but I don't know if it has the info you are looking for (I didn't read it).

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

But some medical experts say lawmakers are moving too fast in their efforts to vaccinate all school-age girls. The American Academy of Pediatrics, for instance, is urging a go-slow approach, with an initial focus on raising public awareness of HPV and more monitoring of the safety of the vaccine, which had minimal side effects in clinical trials but hasn't been observed in larger-scale rollouts.

"A lot of us are worried it's a little early to be pushing a mandated HPV vaccine," said Dr. Martin Myers, director of the National Network for Immunization Information. "It's not that I'm not wildly enthusiastic about this vaccine. I am. But many of us are concerned a mandate may be premature, and it's important for people to realize that this isn't as clear-cut as with some previous vaccines."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-te.md.cervical29jan29,0,166914.story?page=2&coll=bal-home-headlines

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Something I forgot to post earlier...

NPR is going to have a discussion about this tomorrow on "Talk of the Nation."

If you miss it, NPR is great about podcasts.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

At first glance, this is the most extensive trial data I've seen but I don't know if it has the info you are looking for (I didn't read it).

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf

I've read that, rather, tried to read it on the FDA website. It's a little easier to follow here:

http://www.fda.gov/cber/label/hpvmer060806LB.htm

It worries me that the age group targeted for mandatory immunization only accounts for 10%(1200 of 11,000) of the group who the Gardasil was administered. Especially when you consider the Vioxx and Fosamax(both rolled out by Merck) incidents of the last few years...

I guess I just don't understand the rush to mandate this when cervical cancer rates are in decline and the incidence and mortality of CC account for less than 1% of all female cancer cases/deaths.

Anyone?

[ploto]

I guess I just don't understand the rush to mandate this when cervical cancer rates are in decline and the incidence and mortality of CC account for less than 1% of all female cancer cases/deaths.

Anyone?
0% is better than 1%.

[thispego]

:rolleyes

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

0% is better than 1%.

Well, yes and no.

What about diabetic children? If 10 diabetic girls died from this within 10 years, is it still better? Effects on ADD? Asthmatics? Any mention anywhere of those studies?

EDIT: Meh, I don't really care. If you and your local politicians want your children to become guinea pigs, go right ahead. To me, there are a lot more questions than answers with Gardasil.

FYI, it was voted down here in Michigan.

[mookie2001]

wish we had a chance a to vote on it, or at least our politicians

[Kori Ellis]

Is this the official article by the Mookie Crew regarding the topic?

http://www.thevictoriaadvocate.com/428/story/23859.html

[mookie2001]

the writers a sheep

[thispego]

OFFICIAL

[ObiwanGinobili]

this is ironic in a state that teaches absitinance only sex ed.

[Samurai Jane]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the application of the vaccine (one time shot, right?), but I'm wondering why everyone seems to be looking at this from the viewpoint of 6th graders being sexually active. As I understand it, this is a preventative for the future, which is why they are trying to vaccinate before they become sexually active. So, I'm understanding that this would potentially help girls that will eventually become sexually active (whether its in the 6th grade or at 20 or at 25 years old , etc.) Unless they are planning on becoming nuns, it's pretty much a given. Is there some sort of expiration on the effectiveness of the vaccine? In my mind, it doesn't really matter whether that child will only have one partner or 10 partners in the long run, the chances are pretty high they will come in contact with HPV (and may not even know it.)

Please feel free to correct me if I am misinformed.

[Kori Ellis]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the application of the vaccine (one time shot, right?),

3 shots over six months.


I'm wondering why everyone seems to be looking at this from the viewpoint of 6th graders being sexually active. As I understand it, this is a preventative for the future, which is why they are trying to vaccinate before they become sexually active. So, I'm understanding that this would potentially help girls that will eventually become sexually active (whether its in the 6th grade or at 20 or at 25 years old , etc.) Unless they are planning on becoming nuns, it's pretty much a given. Is there some sort of expiration on the effectiveness of the vaccine? In my mind, it doesn't really matter whether that child will only have one partner or 10 partners in the long run, the chances are pretty high they will come in contact with HPV (and may not even know it.)

That's how I understand it too. They aren't doing it at 6th grade because they expect every 6th grader to have sex. They are doing it well in advance of the time they think most of them will be sexually active.

[Kori Ellis]

this is ironic in a state that teaches absitinance only sex ed.

Even if they are teaching abstinence only to teenagers, those girls will eventually have sex at some point (even if they wait til they are in their 20's or until marriage) and need to be protected. I don't see any irony.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I found this..

http://overturnrp65.blogspot.com/

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Is there some sort of expiration on the effectiveness of the vaccine?

They have no idea at this point. The longest a test subject was monitored was 4 years.

The real data will start coming in 2009 and the most important data 2018.


# Merck commits to conduct a short-term safety surveillance study in a U.S. Managed Care Organization (MCO). The study will include approximately 44,000 vaccinated subjects who will be followed for 60 days for assessment of general short-term safety (i.e., emergency room visits, hospitalizations, and deaths). The subjects will also be followed for 6 months subsequent to vaccination for new autoimmune disorders, rheumatologic conditions, or thyroiditis. Also, a sufficient number of children 11-12 years of age will be studied to permit an analysis of safety outcomes.
Final Study Protocol Submission: December 31, 2006
Enrollment Completion: December 31, 2008
Study Completion: June 30, 2009
Final Study Report: September 30, 2009
# Merck commits to collaborate with the cancer registries in four countries in the Nordic Region (Sweden, Norway, Iceland, and Denmark) to assess long-term outcomes following administration of Gardasil. In this study, approximately 5,500 subjects enrolled in Protocol 015 (one half from the placebo group that will have been vaccinated shortly after approval) will be followed for a total of 14 years. Two major goals of this study are: 1) to assess the long-term effectiveness of Gardasil by evaluating biopsy specimens for presence of HPV 6/11/16/18-related incident breakthrough cases of CIN 2/3, AIS and cervical cancer, VIN 2/3 and vulvar cancer, and VaIN 2/3 and vaginal cancer; and 2) to assess whether administration of Gardasil will result in replacement of these diseases due to vaccine HPV types with diseases due to non-vaccine HPV types. This study is designed to accomplish these goals as discussed in the June 6, 2006, submission to Merck’s BLA.
Final Study Protocol Submission: December 8, 2006
Enrollment Completion: Completed
Study Completion: December 31, 2017
Final Study Report: December 31, 2018

http://www.centerwatch.com/patient/drugs/dru901.html

I have no idea why you'd subject your daughters to this when the crucial data is unknown at this point.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Even if they are teaching abstinence only to teenagers, those girls will eventually have sex at some point (even if they wait til they are in their 20's or until marriage) and need to be protected. I don't see any irony.


Because the state will not pay for proper sex ed because in there eyes god forbid the thougth that people have sex and they may be underage and they may be not married and they dont; really need to know about sex OR std's at all, nope lets not tell them a darn thing.
But OTOH the state is like hey! lets give our girls this mandatory shot that helps prevent only 3 strands of HPV that cause 70% of cervical cancer with a "just enough" success rate. Protecting them from an std when in the states eyes noone is having sex anyway. ironic to me. maybe my definition of ironic is as wacked as Alanis's tho. Also without real informed consent of the patient.

It'd be nice if the state put some $$ into REAL sex ed in this state. But I guess there isn;t a sex ed company/lobby that does fund raising for the Govenor's campiagn's. Darn it.

[Kori Ellis]

But OTOH the state is like hey! lets give our girls this mandatory shot that helps prevent only 3 strands of HPV that cause 70% of cervical cancer with a "just enough" success rate.

"just enough" to you equals >99% success rate on those strands of HPV (according to the American Cancer Society). And I guess you missed the part where it's not mandatory. Parents just sign a waiver and their daughter doesn't get it.

[Kori Ellis]

It'd be nice if the state put some $$ into REAL sex ed in this state. But I guess there isn;t a sex ed company/lobby that does fund raising for the Govenor's campiagn's. Darn it.

When GlaxoSmithKline's version of the shot gets approved in a couple months, I wonder if people will give up the campaign angle.

[Kori Ellis]

...

I have no idea why you'd subject your daughters to this when the crucial data is unknown at this point.

You seem to be the only one arguing against the proper things.

If someone is arguing against the unknown safety of the drug, then I understand that. But the people that keep spouting off about how cervical cancer isn't rampant enough to have a vaccine, all vaccines are bad, it's Perry's agenda for being tied to Merck, etc. are ridiculous.

If it's a safe vaccine, then no one should have a problem with it being offered (it's not really being "mandated" because you don't have to get it).

Hopefully more information will come out before fall 2008 so that parents can make an informed decision about whether they want it for their daughters.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

How could that information come out? What if the Norwegian study that will be completed in 2018 finds that the vaccine wears off in 6 years? That would put your daughters at ages 17-18 and at risk again. And no one would know any better.

Or what if they found that by treating 16 and 18, it made 52 and 53 stronger and carcinogenic?

Like I said earlier, there are a hell of a lot more questions than answers for a vaccine that only decreases your chances of getting a certain type of cancer.

Again, why the rush?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

maybe my definition of ironic is as wacked as Alanis's tho.Don't you think?

[Spurminator]

Were the study and approval of this vaccine less thorough than the standard process? What are those standards... are there typically a greater number of test patients? Does it usually take longer to approve?

Just looking for some context.

[boutons_]

"the standard process"

... run by the Repug-politicized FDA which is owned by Big Pharma and Big Food.

[ploto]

As to the person above... yes, the vaccine is to be administered before the female becomes sexually active- that is, before there is any chance she already has HPV.

Again, I just wonder. Why not all this uproar when other vaccines have been added- and you do know that many others have in recent years.

[Spurminator]

I'm still interested in hearing about standard testing.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

This sounds reassuring, doesn't it?


Don't be the first or the last in your community to use a new drug or vaccine, Dr. Jerome O. Klein advised at a meeting on clinical pediatrics sponsored by Boston Medical Center.
When a new drug comes on the market, it's typically based on 5,000-10,000 subjects who have received it because that's all you need for FDA approval, said Dr. Klein, director of pediatric infectious diseases at Boston Medical Center.
If there's an adverse event with an incidence of 1 in 20,000 associated with the drug or vaccine, it won't be detected right away. Unless the new drug or vaccine fills a critical void, Dr. Klein recommended staying away from it until the first 100,000 individuals have been treated. After that "you can feel a lot more comfortable that the adverse event profile is as it has been
described."

Some good quotes in here:

http://whale.to/vaccines/studies.html

[ShoogarBear]

This thread is waaay too long for me to go through, but I nominally agree with the AAP. If this vaccine has not gone through the full range normal rigorous safety and long-term effects testing, then it's too early for politicians to be making the decision to make it mandatory.

I do find it curious that, in line of his stances on other issues of sexual education, Rick Perry would choose to support this particular initiative.

It's interesting to see the reactions, both pro and con, to the acceptance of not-fully-proven vaccines, as opposed to the 30-some-odd years it took to finally get a proven idea like water fluoridation to come to San Antonio.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

as opposed to the 30-some-odd years it took to finally get a proven idea like water fluoridation to come to San Antonio.that's a whole other can of worms that'll make this thread even longer.

[ShoogarBear]

that's a whole other can of worms that'll make this thread even longer.Yeah, I know, but the situations are definitely worth comparing.

Fluoridation was an intervention with a proven medical benefit, and yet many people in SA and other places kept it from happening for many years. Not coincidentally, I also don't think that fluoridation was going to result in anyone making a ton of money.

Mind you, I am not saying that the vaccine is bad or unsafe or that it doesn't work. If I had a daughter I would probably have her get it. I just don't think it's at the stage where it should be mandated by law.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Fluoridation was an intervention with a proven medical benefithttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smishocked.gif. It's too late to get into this.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Here's a question.

By making this mandatory, insurance companies now have to cover the costs associated with the vaccine and those who can't afford it can get it either free or at greatly reduced prices, right?

Is there any other route (after a rescinding of the executive order) that can be taken where insurance companies could fit the bill and the costs could be reduced for those who can't afford it?

[timvp]

Fluoridation was an intervention with a proven medical benefit

Perhaps, but it has made San Antonio's tap water taste horrible.

:pctoss

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Perhaps, but it has made San Antonio's tap water taste horrible.

:pctoss



plus there is evidence that shows flourine calcifies a portion of the brain largely responsible for creativity

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7240619

Talk of the Nation, February 7, 2007 · Lawmakers begin a debate on whether a vaccine against HPV should be added to the must-have list of immunizations. Guests on the program talk about the vaccine, how it works, and whether the vaccine should be mandatory.

Guests:

Robert Rose, associate professor of medicine, and of microbiology and immunology, University of Rochester Medical Center; helped to develop HPV vaccine

Gregory Zimet, professor with Department of Pediatrics, School of Medicine, Indiana University Cancer Center; researched different attitudes toward STD vaccines and mandates

Dawn Richardson, president of Parents Requesting Open Vaccine Education; opposes HPV vaccine mandate

[mookie2001]

I just don't think it's at the stage where it should be mandated by law. good point shooogarbear

[mookie2001]

I think its something we should have voted on, or at LEAST OUR LAWMAKERS

[ShoogarBear]

plus there is evidence that shows flourine calcifies a portion of the brain largely responsible for creativityYou got a citation for that?

[ChumpDumper]

As to the person above... yes, the vaccine is to be administered before the female becomes sexually active- that is, before there is any chance she already has HPV.From what I understand, even if a girl/woman has one type of HPV, the vaccine might still be helpful to ward off other strains of HPV.

[ShoogarBear]

Here's a question.

By making this mandatory, insurance companies now have to cover the costs associated with the vaccine and those who can't afford it can get it either free or at greatly reduced prices, right?

Is there any other route (after a rescinding of the executive order) that can be taken where insurance companies could fit the bill and the costs could be reduced for those who can't afford it?I don't know.

I would speculate that insurance companies would cover it anyway since it is not considered experimental therapy. But obviously with a law they would have no choice (except to leave the state).

Coverage for those with no insurance would I guess have to be covered by government programs (i.e., Medicaid), but I don't know how that works on a state-by-state level.

[Ginofan]

How could that information come out? What if the Norwegian study that will be completed in 2018 finds that the vaccine wears off in 6 years? That would put your daughters at ages 17-18 and at risk again. And no one would know any better.

Or what if they found that by treating 16 and 18, it made 52 and 53 stronger and carcinogenic?

Like I said earlier, there are a hell of a lot more questions than answers for a vaccine that only decreases your chances of getting a certain type of cancer.

Again, why the rush?

Even after getting the vaccine they ask that you get annual screenings for CC.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Even after getting the vaccine they ask that you get annual screenings for CC.


Shouldn't the screenings be mandatory as well? Isn't that the biggest problem with CC, that a lot of women have never been screened or haven't been in 5 plus years? Do you honestly think that by getting the vaccination they will go more?

EDIT: I don't even know if that's a valid point or not because I see no reason a 12, 13 or 14 year old girl needs to be screened for CC unless she's been sexually active.

I've been reading up a little on Hep B vaccination, specifically in newborns. Why is it necessary? Is it true that the ACIP recommended vaccination only because they thought that the wouldn't be able to get junkies, homosexuals, etc. to receive the series of shots? Some info from someone with a better knowledge please chime in...

I really don't have an argument. It's more of me just spouting random thoughts. Feel free to enlighten me.

[Richard Gere]

one benefit of this vaccine that no one has mentioned is that it will actually decrease the chance of pedophiles contracting hpv

i think we can all agree that those poor guys suffer enough as it is and no one benefits from that

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

if it's an STD, then what does school have to do with it? Are the girls having sex in Science class, or Math class?

The thinking is to have girls vaccinated before they start having sex, which is about 11 or 12.

The vaccine is supposed to work better before the virus is present in the body.

[Shelly]

I don't know why I got this, but i received from maketheconnection.org info about all this. It doesn't mention anything about the vaccine on the info they sent me...dunno about the website.

It also came with a beaded bracelet kit!

And I don't even have girls.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I don't know why I got this, but i received from maketheconnection.org info about all this. It doesn't mention anything about the vaccine on the info they sent me...dunno about the website.

It also came with a beaded bracelet kit!

And I don't even have girls.

They've seen your picture and wanted to make sure they got you all the information about Gardasil before it you passed the recommended age for taking it.

[ShoogarBear]

Smoove.

[Shelly]

They've seen your picture and wanted to make sure they got you all the information about Gardasil before it you passed the recommended age for taking it.

Smoove, indeed!

:lol

[ShoogarBear]

The funny thing is, that's how JB really pronounces it.

[Shelly]

It also came with a beaded bracelet kit!



Btw, does any of the Mookie crew want this???? :p:

[ploto]

From what I understand, even if a girl/woman has one type of HPV, the vaccine might still be helpful to ward off other strains of HPV.
I was addressing the early age of vaccination. But, yes, there are many strains of HPV.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You got a citation for that?


heres something that came up first on google, but the data is out there

sorry this is way offtopic

http://fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/


The pineal gland also contains hard tissue (hyroxyapatite crystals), and this hard tissue accumulates more fluoride (up to 21,000 ppm) than any other hard tissue in the body (e.g. teeth and bone).

[Viva Las Espuelas]

heres something that came up first on google, but the data is out there

sorry this is way offtopic

http://fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/shoogerbear brought this up earlier in this thread. there's a whole lot more out there to dig up.

[Ginofan]

if it's an STD, then what does school have to do with it? Are the girls having sex in Science class, or Math class?

That's like asking "if it's Sex Ed, why is it being taught in school?"

And to answer your question, I don't know how many years you've been in or out of highschool, but when I was in school there WERE couples finding places at school to do that.

[Ginofan]

Shouldn't the screenings be mandatory as well? Isn't that the biggest problem with CC, that a lot of women have never been screened or haven't been in 5 plus years? Do you honestly think that by getting the vaccination they will go more?

EDIT: I don't even know if that's a valid point or not because I see no reason a 12, 13 or 14 year old girl needs to be screened for CC unless she's been sexually active.

I've been reading up a little on Hep B vaccination, specifically in newborns. Why is it necessary? Is it true that the ACIP recommended vaccination only because they thought that the wouldn't be able to get junkies, homosexuals, etc. to receive the series of shots? Some info from someone with a better knowledge please chime in...

I really don't have an argument. It's more of me just spouting random thoughts. Feel free to enlighten me.

Well most women do have pap smears done annually, but no one is making them go. I think it would be a good thing to make it mandatory, but how on earth would a yearly doctor's visit be enforced?

[mookie2001]

gardasil can't be given to women who are pregnant...what are they going to do? preggo-test every single 11 year old girl before giving them the vaccine? goddam elpimpo dropped the science on yall *crickets*

[ObiwanGinobili]

Is There Really a Vaccine for Cervical Cancer?
By Summer Minor

A new vaccine that is being touted as prevention for cervical cancer is making headlines right now. A wave of commercials, print ads, and articles are spreading across the nation praising the benefits of this medical miracle Gardasil®. In Texas Republican Gov. Rick Perry issued an order Friday making Texas the first state to require that schoolgirls ages 11 and 12 get this vaccine. Every one is excited for what this new step could mean for the health of women, but some are asking if this really is the cancer vaccine that it is being made out to be.

Human papilloma virus, or HPV, is a common virus that is spread through sexual contact, so common in fact that more than 50 percent of sexually active adults will have had this virus at least once in their lives. HPV causes an infection in the cervix, an infection that generally does not last long because of the body's ability to fight off the infection. Most people will never know they have HPV and most infections go away without treatment. If the infection does not clear it can lead to pre-cancerous cells. But it is important to note that pre-cancer is not cancer. In fact very few HPV infections actually lead to cervical cancer. The American Cancer Society states on their website that most cells with early pre-cancer changes return to normal on their own. They further point out on their site that only women who have HIV or AIDS, smoke, or have a specific variety of HPV have a greater risk of cervical cancer. There are more than 100 types of HPV, according to the American Cancer Society, more than 30 of these strains can infect the genitals and cause wart-like growths on or around the genitals and anus of both men and women but are not linked with cancer. Out of the over 100 strains only 13 HPV types are associated with a high risk of cervical cancer.

Gardasil, though advertised as a prevention for cervical cancer, actually only protects against four HPV types and is s most effective in women who have not yet acquired any of the four HPV types covered. In addition, according to the Center for Disease Control about 30% of cervical cancers will not be prevented by the vaccine. This relatively new vaccine is actually still being studied. Currently there is little to no information on how this vaccine could affect men, women over the age of 26, pregnant women, the length of vaccine protection, or how much protection is offered by only getting one or two of the three dose vaccine. The women who were originally studied for Gardasil were only followed for five years, making it near impossible to know what long term side effects it may have.

Though Gardasil is posed as a break though vaccine health officials warn that this vaccine should not substitute for routine cervical cancer screening known as Pap tests. A Pap test will usually tell you if you have any cervix cell changes that could be caused by HPV and give you and your doctor an early indicator. The American Cancer Society states that cervical cancer is rare today in women who get their Pap tests, HPV that does not go away over many years can lead to cervix cancer but periodic screening through the Pap test can diagnose HPV while still in early stages. There is also a HPV DNA test available for women over the age of 30 that can detect HPV on a woman's cervix though it cannot tell what strain of HPV is present. Most women diagnosed with cervical cancer in the U.S. have either never had a Pap test, or have not had a Pap test in the last 5 years according to the Center for Disease Control. The CDC states that the only sure way to prevent HPV is to abstain from all sexual activity, as there is still a risk of contracting HPV with condom use. Because most people infected show no symptoms and do not know that they are infected it is possible to pass along HPV to sexual partners without knowing.

Serious adverse effects of Gardasil are being reported to the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). VAERS is a cooperative program for vaccine safety of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration. VAERS is a post-marketing safety surveillance program, collecting information about adverse events (possible side effects) that occur after the administration of US licensed vaccines. Their report shows several claims of loss of consciousness, seizures, joint pain and Guillain-Barre Syndrome believed to be caused by the HPV vaccine. Between July 2006 and January 2007 VAERS has had 82 reports of adverse effects following the administration of Gardasil, these reports have come from 21 states and including the District of Columbia. All but three of the reports were for reactions within one week of vaccination, and more than 60 percent occurred within 24 hours of vaccination. Vicky Debold, RN, Ph.D. and Health Policy Analyst for the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) stated "These young girls are experiencing severe headaches, dizziness, temporary loss of vision, slurred speech, fainting, involuntary contraction of limbs (seizures), muscle weakness, tingling and numbness in the hands and feet and joint pain. Some of the girls have lost consciousness during what appears to be seizures." The VAERS reports also indicate that doctors are giving Gardasil shots along with other vaccines, though the Merck product insert states that Gardasil has not been tested along with any other vaccine except for the hepatitis B vaccine.

Gardasil is being examined with suspicion by many over the larger-than-life claims on the effectiveness of this vaccine on cervical cancer and the limited research done on this relatively new vaccine. Financial ties to lobbyists and legislators are also casting suspicion upon the new vaccine, such as with Republican Gov. Rick Perry whose current chief of staff has family in the advocacy group where Merck funnels money through for lobbying. Many are also raising eyebrows at the high cost of Gardasil, at $360 for the full series this is one of the most costly vaccines available today making many wonder if there are financial reasons rather than health reasons for the vaccine's push.

[ObiwanGinobili]

http://www.fda.gov/cber/minutes/0910evolv.txt


Pg 84-85

It is known that these patients all have particular cell-mediated immune deficiencies. Again, suggesting that particular arms of the immune system are responsible for either containing or failing to contain different subgroups of the papilloma viruses. As we look at these women over a period of time through these six month or so samples, what we also find, and other labs have exactly the same results, is every time we sample, you may or may not see the type you saw before. It may switch. For (Pg 85) instance, we have this patient who had 6 plus 16, and then 11 plus one that was minor and we couldn't tell, then jyn 2, and then type 40, and then we had a type 4, but the others disappeared.

Page 87-88

I feel that they are virtually ubiquitous. they are typically sub-clinical, persist in or latent (pg 88) infections. There are staggeringly large number of genotypes if we take the care to look. I might say that the reason these are typically not found is that people use generic cross-hybridizing probes or have cut off their probe sets. If you're not probing for something, you are not going to see it.

My Page 88 and 89 ~ I saved it to a word document (perhaps 86 or 87 on theirs)

"We have found a brand new HPV type for every 10 people that we have looked at. Philodelius and Ethel Michelle Diveres and zur Hausen and Shamen in European study of tutanius papilloma viruses have found a new papilloma virus for just about every other person they have looked at when they use the combination of nested PCR and DNA sequencing. Robbie Burke's group, Jill Polefski's group, have very comparable experiences looking at anal papillomas or female genital tract. It is my contention right now that instead of 80 HPV genotypes or 150 that have been officially named, that there probably are millions of variants, virtually a continuum. We feel that basically everybody has their own personal micro flora, that these are passively acquired or vertically acquired,not necessarily sexually, but certainly possibly sexually, and that they simply are part of the human condition as are microflora, just as we have microflora composed of bacteria and many other viruses, and that they basically are utterly ubiquitous.

Page 101-102

R. BROKER: Well, I think one way is that in a very high percentage of the people, there are clear dysplasia, low and high grade. All the women who have any degree of dysplasia are also biopsied, and the inside 2 hybridization, as you can see, is showing clear effects in the tissue. (pg98) So I don't think there's surface adventitious contaminants. These are within, at least a fair number, if not all, are within the cells, and causing various degrees of actual overt illness.

DR. RUSSO: I may have missed the data. Did you show the types that are associated with high grade lesions, the HPV types? I didn't see on the table.

DR. BROKER: Yes. Well basically, in this immense spectrum of what's now 37 different viruses that we found, those that are most typically associated with low and high grade dysplasia, the actual diseases, are the higher risk types.

DR. RUSSO: So you are not suggesting that if you want to prevent cervical cancer, we should focus on different types of the one already identified?

DR. BROKER: Well the real problematic thing for any clinical management, either vaccination programs or small molecule drugs, is this absolutely exploding number of virus types. The one thing that I think is going to -- and I commented a day or two ago that in the U.S. alone today, there are over 250 to 300,000 people immuno-suppressed just due to organ transplants, (Pg 99)steroid use, or bone marrow transplants or AIDS. So there is an immense reservoir of particularly high risk patients. Nonetheless, most of the diseases are still being caused by a handful of viruses like 16, 18, 52. So I think, at least the ones we have to worry about today, are still manageable in number."

[ObiwanGinobili]

this is my favorite part.


We have found a brand new HPV type for every 10 people that we have looked at. Philodelius and Ethel Michelle Diveres and zur Hausen and Shamen in European study of tutanius papilloma viruses have found a new papilloma virus for just about every other person they have looked at when they use the combination of nested PCR and DNA sequencing. Robbie Burke's group, Jill Polefski's group, have very comparable experiences looking at anal papillomas or female genital tract. It is my contention right now that instead of 80 HPV genotypes or 150 that have been officially named, that there probably are millions of variants, virtually a continuum. We feel that basically everybody has their own personal micro flora, that these are passively acquired or vertically acquired,not necessarily sexually, but certainly possibly sexually, and that they simply are part of the human condition as are microflora, just as we have microflora composed of bacteria and many other viruses, and that they basically are utterly ubiquitous.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Any day now there will be a gov. agent at my door checkign to make sure I brushed my teeth that morning.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Texas Vaccine Exemption Forms

According to the Texas Dept. of Health:

Written requests must be submitted through the U.S. Postal Service, commercial carrier, fax at (512) 458-7544 , or by hand-delivery to:

1946
DSHS Immunization Branch
1100 West 49th Street
Austin, Texas 78756

Hand-delivered requests may be submitted to the DSHS, Immunization Branch, between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. Mondays through Fridays. ALL affidavit forms will be mailed to you via U.S. Postal Service. No requests will be filled at the time of hand-delivery.

Affidavit form requests will be processed and mailed within one week from the receipt of the request. If additional information is needed in order to process the affidavit, you will be notified;

The letter must include the following information:

Full name of each child for whom a form is requested (first, middle, and last);

Date of birth of each child for whom a form is requested;

Parent or legal guardian’s complete return mailing address, including zip code;

Number of forms needed for each child (not to exceed five forms per child)

Electronic mail or telephone requests cannot be processed.

The official Texas Department of State Health Services affidavit form must be notarized and submitted to school officials. The form must be submitted within 90 days from the date it is notarized.

The school will accept only official affidavit forms developed and issued by the Texas Department of State Health Services (DSHS), Immunization Branch.. No other forms or reproductions will be allowed.

SOURCE: http://www.tdh.state.tx.us/immunize/school_exclusion.htm

They are good for 2 years (even tho the actuall Texas law says the exemption is good for life) So you can request 5 per child. Then sign, notarize and mail back one- 2 yrs later repeat.
You can select specific vax's ot be exempt from or you can blanket choose all of them.

[ObiwanGinobili]

god i know.
at least most banks do it for free.

[mookie2001]

uh oh...... gardasil can't be given to women who are pregnant...what are they going to do? preggo-test every single 11 year old girl before giving them the vaccine? :lmao :lmaowhere are all the parents now?, and manny...

[mookie2001]

wow

[Melmart1]

where are all the parents now?, and manny...
They are probably through with this thread because of your attitude. Even though I don't like making this mandatory and agree with some of your points, you go to great pains to be a jackass about it, which does not lend itself to great debate.

[mookie2001]

sorry melmart i know youre probably in a bad mood because of the game, but I was talking about elpimpos post




uh oh...... gardasil can't be given to women who are pregnant...what are they going to do? preggo-test every single 11 year old girl before giving them the vaccine? :lmao :lmao

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I have seen three gardasil commercials today

[thispego]

gardasil can't be given to women who are pregnant...what are they going to do? preggo-test every single 11 year old girl before giving them the vaccine?what is gardasil?, is it in nation womens magazines?

[Kori Ellis]

Most 11 year old girls don't have their period yet, so won't be pregnant. But I'd imagine that if it can't be given to pregnant women, they could easily give them all a pregnancy test. Urine test takes about 2 minutes.

[Kori Ellis]

:lmao preggo tests for all!!!

If it's true that you can't be pregnant and get the vaccine, don't you think they'd have to test them?

[Kori Ellis]

I actually don't think any school girls will have the vaccine in Sept 2008 because there's too many lawmakers against in and too many unclear issues. So I think the "mandated vaccine" will be delayed.

But I'm saying, if they do start giving the vaccine, it's not that hard to give a pregnancy test.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

what a load of circumstantial bull shit pimpo
you really think perry using merck's research has anything to do with this?/

[Cant_Be_Faded]

the nerve of you putting down a drug that has yeilded the results witnessed thus far is insufferable

[thispego]

lota history down that road

the fantasy road where every girl in texas gets tested for pregnancy at 11 or 12, when we traveled down that road, I recalled its details, and it was a road, a road to perdition

[Cant_Be_Faded]

*rod

[thispego]

nothin but perdition don that rod

[mookie2001]

uh oh...... gardasil can't be given to women who are pregnant...what are they going to do? preggo-test every single 11 year old girl before giving them the vaccine? :lmao :lmaoman yall let elmpimpo have the final deathblow?, hes from victoria and doesnt have even have kids

[lil'mo]

I declare on this 10th day of February of the year 2007 that the "Texas Requires Cancer Vaccine for Girls" thread, now being void of all posters other than Kori and Victorians dues to extreme knowledge droppage, is the new original Free Quattro Razor Thread. So sayeth the mo

[mookie2001]

this thread is badd now

[2Blonde]

My daughter has had the first two injections of Gardisil. She goes back for the third next month. They didn't give her a pregnancy test either time and she's almost 15. You make a good point about the pregnancy tests.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

All I have seen you toss about is one weak circumstantial piece of bullshit after another.

First, it was all about Merck and it's connections to Rick Perry. I know all about the pharma companies lobbies and how a high level Merck lobbyist was an aid to Rick Perry, but none of that changes the fact that this vaccine has been proven to work amazingly well.



http://www.news8austin.com/content/your_news/default.asp?ArID=179645

Perry's staff discussed vaccine on day Merck donated to campaign
2/22/2007 11:49 AM
By: Associated Press

Gov. Rick Perry's chief of staff met with aides about the HPV vaccine on the same day the manufacturer donated money to his gubernatorial campaign. That's what documents obtained by The Associated Press show.

Perry spokesman Robert Black said the timing of the meeting and the donation was a coincidence.

Late Wednesday night, Black issued a statement saying, “The Associated Press has tried to create a conspiracy where none exists, and they have offered not one shred of evidence to their baseless accusations that the governor's office has done anything wrong.''

A Merck spokesman says he could not immediately comment but would look into the matter.

Chief of staff Deirdre Delisi's calendar shows she met with the governor's budget director and three members of his office for an HPV vaccine briefing. The meeting was on Oct. 16. That day, New Jersey-based Merck's political action committee donated $5,000 to Perry. Merck's PAC also gave $5,000 total to eight state lawmakers.

Black says Delisi had asked budget director Mike Morrissey to update her on the cost of providing the new human papillomavirus vaccine free to young women on Medicaid.

The calendar and other documents obtained by the AP show Perry's office began meeting with Merck lobbyists about the vaccine as early as mid-August.

This month, the governor issued an order requiring the HPV vaccine shots for girls entering sixth grade. Merck is the only maker of the vaccine.

Merck has been criticized for lobbying to make the vaccines mandatory for young girls. The company stands to make billions of dollars if the vaccine is required nationwide.














Damn this article is so circumstantial, that we should ignore it--why bother looking at coincidences when the honorable Rick Perry is dishing out executive orders to save potentially raped daughters.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Why wait 6 months for a competitor to make their hpv vaccine? That's 6 months of preggo testing and vaccinations we'd be giving up! eeeeessh

[boutons_]

" 'research' about the vaccine was being done by the manufacturers of said vaccine"

done by Merck or paid for by Merck, with, surprise, only/mostly the positive results being published.

We know from the Vioxx history that Merck hid negative results, downplayed negative side-effects and risks:

http://www.newstarget.com/010613.html

Do you really think Merck, or any Big Pharma, has "changed its spots" just because of Vioxx? There are many years of $Bs in profits, and $100s of Ms for the top execs, on the table. Did you really think consumer safety is foremost in their objectives?

But, the sheeple/rabble have been advertized to sleep, convinced, at least implicitly that anything from a drug company through a doctor (who is often favored in some way by the drug pushers) is OK, without others options, and even necessary.

No questions, just open up, throw it down, .... and pay up.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yeah but its all opinion about whether or not the drug is safe....I knew some doctors that scrounged up every last sample of Vioxx available in the office when it was discontinued because they knew it was still a good drug, and those side effects did not affect everyone. But still, noone has said anything about the complications arising from receivers already pregnant, and the possible preggo tests for 11 year olds 3 times in a row.

[mookie2001]

Yeah but its all opinion about whether or not the drug is safe....I knew some doctors that scrounged up every last sample of Vioxx available in the office when it was discontinued because they knew it was still a good drug, and those side effects did not affect everyone. But still, noone has said anything about the complications arising from receivers already pregnant, and the possible preggo tests for 11 year olds 3 times in a row. weak no texas 11 and 12 year olds ever get pregnant


noone has said anything about the complications arising from receivers already pregnant, and the possible preggo tests for 11 year olds 3 times in a row
the parents

[Cant_Be_Faded]

*crickets chirping*

[Kori Ellis]

noone has said anything about the complications arising from receivers already pregnant

What have been the complications?

[boutons_]

Millions In U.S. Infected With HPV

Study Finds Virus Strikes a Third of Women by Age 24

By David Brown
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 28, 2007; A01

More than one-third of American women are infected with human papillomavirus (HPV), which in rare cases can lead to cervical cancer, by the time they are 24 years old, according to a study being published today.

The new estimates suggest that there are 7.5 million girls and women 14 to 24 years old infected with the microbe -- about two-thirds more than an earlier but less comprehensive study had found.

Overall, about one-quarter of women under age 60 are infected at any given time, making HPV by far the most common sexually transmitted disease in the country.

News of the higher-than-expected prevalence of HPV infection was balanced by the discovery that only 2.2 percent of women were carrying one of the two virus strains most likely to lead to cervical cancer -- about half the rate found in previous surveys.

The lead researcher cautioned the findings do not mean that HPV infection rates are rising, only that they are higher than previously thought.

"For us, it's just a different measurement -- and a more accurate one," said Eileen F. Dunne, a physician and epidemiologist at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The estimate comes from the federal government's ongoing National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, which provides the clearest snapshot of the U.S. population's health through dozens of measurements, laboratory tests and survey questions.

The new findings, published in today's Journal of the American Medical Association, are likely to further encourage use of a vaccine against HPV approved in June by the Food and Drug Administration for females 9 to 26. Its maker, Merck, until recently was lobbying state legislatures to mandate vaccination of middle-school girls -- a step that more than 18 states are moving toward.

In its just-completed session, Virginia's General Assembly enacted legislation, which is now before the governor, requiring the vaccine in schoolgirls. Texas's governor earlier this month issued an executive order doing the same thing.

"Our perspective is that many women would benefit from the protection that [the vaccine] would provide," said Richard M. Haupt, the executive director for medical affairs at Merck Vaccines. The company is running studies trying to prove the vaccine's usefulness in women 25 to 45, and also in boys and men 9 to 23.

Some parents have objected to school mandates for HPV vaccination of girls, arguing that because the infection is transmitted only through sexual contact, it can be avoided by choice. Others believe the vaccine may lower inhibitions against sexual activity, although there is no evidence that fear of HPV infection is a reason many teenagers abstain.

There are dozens of strains of HPV, but only some can lead to cancer. Two -- HPV-16 and HPV-18 -- are responsible for about 70 percent of cervical cancers worldwide. The Merck vaccine protects against both, as well as two other strains that cause genital warts.

Most of the time a woman's immune system clears the virus within weeks, although repeated reinfections are possible. In some cases, however, the virus becomes incorporated in cervical cells and can cause malignant changes.

Cervical cancer was once the leading cause of cancer death in American women. Routine screening with Pap smears has reduced deaths dramatically in the last three decades. Last year, there were about 9,700 new cases of cervical cancer in the United States and 3,700 deaths. About 85 percent of the women who died had never had a Pap smear.

Worldwide, cervical cancer is responsible for about 235,000 deaths a year, but only 17,000 occur in industrialized countries.

In the 2003-2004 round of the national health survey, about 2,000 females aged 14 to 59 submitted self-collected vaginal swabs. Laboratory testing detected HPV in 27 percent of them. In the 14-to-24 age group, the rate was 34 percent. The highest prevalence -- 45 percent -- was in women age 20 to 24.

HPV also infects boys and men, in whom it can cause genital warts and anal cancer. Males were not tested in the survey, although researchers are trying to come up with ways to do that, Dunne said.

An earlier study of college students found that more than 50 percent acquired HPV within four years of first sexual intercourse. In the new survey, HPV infection was more likely in women under age 25, in unmarried women, and in women with two or more partners, especially in the year before testing.

The Merck vaccine is a three-shot course costing about $360. The committee that advises CDC on vaccine policy recommended its routine use in 11- and 12-year-old girls to protect them against the four strains before they become sexually active.

Although infection produces antibodies, they do not appear to prevent future reinfection, said Lawrence R. Stanberry, a vaccine researcher at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston.

"This is a situation where the vaccine really looks like it provides much better immunity than what you would get if you allowed yourself to become naturally infected," he said.

Whether the immunity will last a lifetime is uncertain. Preliminary evidence suggests it may start to dwindle after five years. A vaccine being developed by GlaxoSmithKline, which targets only HPV-16 and HPV-18, contains an antibody-boosting "adjuvant" that may provide longer-lasting immunity.

Merck, which sells its product under the trade name Gardasil, has been lobbying for laws requiring the vaccine for schoolgirls. After criticism from politicians and editorial writers, it recently said it will stop doing so.

[boutons_]

March 14, 2007

Texas Lawmakers Vote on Cancer Vaccine

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 9:59 a.m. ET

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Texas lawmakers are fighting to block the governor's order requiring that sixth-grade girls be vaccinated against the virus that causes cervical cancer, with the House giving key approval to a bill to make the shots strictly voluntary.

Gov. Rick Perry's executive order has inflamed conservatives who say it contradicts Texas' abstinence-only sexual education policies and intrudes into family lives. Some critics also have questioned whether the vaccine has been proven safe.

The House voted 119-21 on Tuesday to approve a bill that would keep the vaccine off the list of required shots for school attendance. The measure was likely to get a final House vote Wednesday to send it on to the state Senate.

The 119 votes for the bill Tuesday would be more than enough to override a veto by the governor.

The vaccine protects girls against some strains of human papillomavirus, or HPV, a sexually transmitted virus that causes most cases of cervical cancer. A February report by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated that one in four U.S. women ages 14 to 59 is infected with the virus.

Perry's order directed Health and Human Services Executive Commissioner Albert Hawkins to adopt rules to vaccinate all girls entering the sixth grade as of September 2008. Parents could have refused the shots for their daughters.

Lawmakers said the governor circumvented the legislative process.

The bill adopted Tuesday ''will not take away the option for a single girl or a single family in this state to choose to vaccinate a child,'' said Republican Rep. Dennis Bonnen of Angleton, the lead author of the bill. ''It simply says a family must make that choice, not a state government.''

The governor's office has estimated that only 25 percent of young women in Texas would get the vaccine if it is not mandatory.

Critics also have argued that the vaccine, called Gardasil, was too new and its effects needed to be further studied before mandating it for Texas schoolgirls. The Food and Drug Administration approved Gardasil last year.

Elsewhere, a New Mexico bill that requiring the shots for sixth-grade girls is expected to be signed by the end of this week by Gov. Bill Richardson, spokesman Gilbert Gallegos said. And Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine has said he would sign a similar bill passed by his state's Legislature.

Although the Wyoming Legislature recently rejected a request for $4 million specifically to fund HPV vaccination, the state's Department of Health intends to continue offering the vaccine to eligible girls with existing funding until the money run out.

In other states, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick's budget proposal, unveiled in February, proposed offering free shots in a voluntary program to all girls ages 9 to 18. A California Assembly committee on Tuesday put off voting on a bill that would require girls entering the seventh grade to be vaccinated against HPV.

=============

Looks like Merck is gonna have problems using Gardisil to fill up the profit hole and lawsuit payments from Vioxx.

[Trainwreck2100]

Booya, I win

[Cant_Be_Faded]

apparently most of our state elected officials are pro cancer

[boutons_]

April 26, 2007

Texas Legislators Block Shots for Girls Against Cancer Virus

By RALPH BLUMENTHAL

HOUSTON, April 25 — A revolt by lawmakers has blocked Gov. Rick Perry’s effort to make Texas the first state to require sixth-grade girls to be vaccinated against a sexually transmitted virus that causes cervical cancer.

In a 135-to-2 vote that appeared veto-proof, the Texas House gave final passage on Wednesday to a Senate bill that bars the state from ordering the shots until at least 2011. Even many supporters of the governor resented Mr. Perry’s proposal as an abuse of executive authority.

“There was no public testimony — why we were jumping so fast into a vaccine that was not for a true communicable disease,” said Senator Glenn Hegar Jr., a Republican representing a district just west of Houston who sponsored the Senate bill to overturn the governor’s order. It passed 30 to 1 on Monday.

But Senator Leticia van de Putte, a Democrat from San Antonio who is a pharmacist and was the lone Senate vote for the vaccination program, said that with 400 deaths in Texas from cervical cancer each year, “I’m thinking of the women that will die because we didn’t act.”

Governor Perry, through his office, voiced regret at the legislative action but declined to say what his next step would be.

“The governor stayed true to his word to Texas women and continues to be their advocate,” said Krista Moody, a spokeswoman in Austin.

Mr. Perry, a Republican who was narrowly re-elected to his second full term in November, surprised almost everyone on Feb. 2 by bypassing the Republican-controlled Legislature and announcing the initiative.

He said he would sign an executive order directing the Texas Health and Human Services Commission to adopt rules requiring all 11- and 12-year old girls entering the sixth grade to be vaccinated against the human papillomavirus, or HPV, starting in September 2008. The order allowed parents to let their daughters opt out of the program.

The vaccine, Gardasil, is manufactured by Merck, which was represented in Austin by the lobbyist Mike Toomey, who was chief of staff for Mr. Perry from 2002 to 2004.

The governor’s office denied any connection between the governor’s proposal and Mr. Toomey. A Merck spokesman declined to comment on the company’s lobbying.

But Merck, which had begun a campaign for Gardasil in legislatures around the country, reacted to growing opposition to proposed vaccine mandates by announcing in late February that it was dropping its legislative campaign.

While some health authorities and public advocates in Texas praised the governor’s order, many reacted angrily. Legislators argued that their authority had been usurped by the executive branch, which the state’s founding fathers intended as a weak branch of government.

On March 14, the Texas House voted 118 to 23 to prevent the health commission from issuing any vaccination mandate. But a Senate version of the bill, which prevailed Wednesday, provided that the ban would expire in four years, allowing lawmakers to revisit the issue. The next Legislature meets in 2009 and could vote to take up the issue then.

“We did not want to be the first in offering young girls for the experiment to see if this vaccine is effective or not,” said Representative Dennis H. Bonnen, a Republican from Angleton, who sponsored the ban in the House.

The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, among other health authorities, describe Gardasil as safe and effective when given as approved to girls ages 9 to 26 in three shots over eight months.

Some Texas political analysts said Governor Perry had miscalculated.

Harvey Kronberg, editor of the legislative Web site Quorum Report, said the governor had failed to consult his two leading fellow Republicans, Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst, who presides over the Senate, and the House speaker, Tom Craddick.

“This kind of imperiousness offended his base,” Mr. Kronberg said.

Bill Miller, an Austin lobbyist close to the Republican leadership, said the mixture of “under-age girls, cancer and sex” had proven too volatile.

[ploto]

I think that I would take the word of physicians over the word of a bunch of legislators in Texas who are afraid to look like they are supporting girls having sex.

American College of Obstetrics & Gynecology

Washington, DC -- The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) today released clinical recommendations for females ages 9 to 26 for the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine in advance of their publication in the September 2006 issue of Obstetrics & Gynecology. A new committee opinion offers general information about the vaccine and addresses proper administration, precautions, and contraindications.

"The approval of this vaccine represents a significant development in women's health and the fight against cancer. Obstetrician-gynecologists should be proactive in educating our patients about the vaccine so that as many women as possible are able to take advantage of this medical milestone," said ACOG President Douglas W. Laube, MD, MEd. "We must be prepared both to administer the vaccine and to answer patient and parent questions that will arise," Dr. Laube added.

http://www.acog.org/from_home/publications/press_releases/nr08-08-06.cfm



Centers for Disease Control


The HPV vaccine is recommended for 11-12 year-old girls, but can be administered to girls as young as 9 years of age. The vaccine also is recommended for 13-26 year-old females who have not yet received or completed the vaccine series.

Ideally, the vaccine should be administered before onset of sexual activity. However, females who are sexually active also may benefit from vaccination. Females who have not been infected with any vaccine HPV type would receive the full benefit of vaccination. Females who already have been infected with one or more HPV type would still get protection from the vaccine types they have not acquired.

http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/STDFact-HPV-vaccine-hcp.htm#provhpvrec

[thispego]

or if you want to get expert quotes from people who are actually talking about the hpv mandate rather than just the vaccination (as your quotes refer to), here's something from the Texas Medical Association: http://www.texmed.org/Template.aspx?id=5725

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Didn't CBF say something at the beginning about how this was all about money?

[ploto]

or if you want to get expert quotes from people who are actually talking about the hpv mandate rather than just the vaccination (as your quotes refer to), here's something from the Texas Medical Association: http://www.texmed.org/Template.aspx?id=5725
Again- a bunch of conservative doctors in Texas worried about its ties to sex. I assure you, if it was for a disease that only kills males, they would be all over it. I know plenty of individual physicians who believe its a good thing.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Once again the entire elected legislative body of the state of texas has proven to be inhumane, and more ignorant than Republican Governor Rick Perry.

[ChumpDumper]

The mandate was premature. That's pretty clear. In the end, all the press is probably a positive since the issue of testing might be pursued more vigorously and many women might get the vaccine of their own free will.

[boutons_]

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Three-Girls-Died--Others-Hospitalized--After-HPV-Vaccine-21325.aspx

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/334/7605/1182%20

http://www.forces-of-nature.net/topics/warts/Beta-carotene_folic_acid_vitamin_C_and_HPV.htm

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/9/876

http://www.mothernature.com/Library/bookshelf/Books/10/46.cfm

So, Mamas and Papas, you don't need expensive, dangerous Merck shit hawked by corrupt politicans on the take from Big Pharma to protect your promiscuous daughters from HPV. A healthy girl with good nutrition can shake off HPV without drugs and without proceeding to cancer. HPV is not a death sentence, except for weakened, unhealthy girls.

Of course, you have real fight trying to get kids to eat correctly when the corps are flogging their toxic shit non-stop, and their parents eat poorly and over-eat themselves to over-weight and obesity.

It's such a racket. Corps sell you toxic shit as "food" that makes you weak and sick, then other corps sell you dangerous, expensive drugs to cure or prevent the unnecessary diseases.

None of them nor their politician/regulatory accomplices will tell you that THERE IS NO PROBLEM if you eat right in the first place.

[boutons_]

NewsTarget.com printable article

Originally published August 29 2007

Absurd vaccine marketing calls for cervical cancer vaccinations for young boys!

by Mike Adams

The headline for this story is not a typo. The push to sell more vaccines and pharmaceuticals has now reached a level of absurdity that should astonish any intelligent person. The mainstream media is now reporting -- and I'm not kidding -- that young boys should be vaccinated with Gardasil (the drug now being pushed onto teenage girls to supposedly prevent cervical cancer) based on the idea that if they have oral sex with girls who carry HPV, they might get throat cancer!

This is an incredible stretch of scientific credibility, and it's such a preposterous marketing campaign that only Big Pharma could have come up with it. It's obviously nothing more than a massive scare campaign to try to dream up some way to market this high-profit vaccine to a whole new group of customers who don't need it: teenage boys!

Even the idea of mandatory vaccinations for teenage girls is little more than desperate disease mongering designed to sell vaccines. Carrying HPV doesn't automatically lead to cervical cancer any more than carrying chicken pox turns you into a walking biological weapon. Most people who carry the virus show no symptoms at all, and girls with healthy immune systems and healthy lifestyles (diet, nutrition, etc.) have a near-zero risk of ever developing cervical cancer, even if they're exposed to HPV on a repeated basis. The virus isn't the disease: It's the terrain of the person carrying the virus! If they're unhealthy and vulnerable, then of course they're not going to be able to keep the virus in check.

We don't live in a sterile world, after all. There are more bacteria cells in your body right now than human cells, and we're surrounded by viruses, fungi and other germs. The whole idea of vaccinating against one particular strain that might someday, possibly, perhaps cause a problem if you have sex is just medical nonsense.

But vaccinating young boys is an even dumber idea. It's so stupid that I can't find the words to even describe how low on the IQ chart these drug marketing "experts" must be to come up with this one. They must think the public is so gullible that they can just make up any sex-related story and use it to sell drugs. Next, we'll be hearing about young boys giving themselves HPV through masturbation! And the cries for vaccinating all young boys will be something along the lines of, "If you masturbate, VACCINATE!"

Sadly, most consumers are so ignorant about reproductive health and germs in general that they'd probably buy into it. And if that campaign is successful, they'll go for the ultimate stupid scare tactic: The Doorknob Campaign (keep reading, if you dare...).

http://www.newstarget.com/z021999.html

[Viva Las Espuelas]

NewsTarget.com printable article

Originally published August 29 2007

Absurd vaccine marketing calls for cervical cancer vaccinations for young boys!

by Mike Adams

The headline for this story is not a typo. The push to sell more vaccines and pharmaceuticals has now reached a level of absurdity that should astonish any intelligent person. The mainstream media is now reporting -- and I'm not kidding -- that young boys should be vaccinated with Gardasil (the drug now being pushed onto teenage girls to supposedly prevent cervical cancer) based on the idea that if they have oral sex with girls who carry HPV, they might get throat cancer!

This is an incredible stretch of scientific credibility, and it's such a preposterous marketing campaign that only Big Pharma could have come up with it. It's obviously nothing more than a massive scare campaign to try to dream up some way to market this high-profit vaccine to a whole new group of customers who don't need it: teenage boys!

Even the idea of mandatory vaccinations for teenage girls is little more than desperate disease mongering designed to sell vaccines. Carrying HPV doesn't automatically lead to cervical cancer any more than carrying chicken pox turns you into a walking biological weapon. Most people who carry the virus show no symptoms at all, and girls with healthy immune systems and healthy lifestyles (diet, nutrition, etc.) have a near-zero risk of ever developing cervical cancer, even if they're exposed to HPV on a repeated basis. The virus isn't the disease: It's the terrain of the person carrying the virus! If they're unhealthy and vulnerable, then of course they're not going to be able to keep the virus in check.

We don't live in a sterile world, after all. There are more bacteria cells in your body right now than human cells, and we're surrounded by viruses, fungi and other germs. The whole idea of vaccinating against one particular strain that might someday, possibly, perhaps cause a problem if you have sex is just medical nonsense.

But vaccinating young boys is an even dumber idea. It's so stupid that I can't find the words to even describe how low on the IQ chart these drug marketing "experts" must be to come up with this one. They must think the public is so gullible that they can just make up any sex-related story and use it to sell drugs. Next, we'll be hearing about young boys giving themselves HPV through masturbation! And the cries for vaccinating all young boys will be something along the lines of, "If you masturbate, VACCINATE!"

Sadly, most consumers are so ignorant about reproductive health and germs in general that they'd probably buy into it. And if that campaign is successful, they'll go for the ultimate stupid scare tactic: The Doorknob Campaign (keep reading, if you dare...).

http://www.newstarget.com/z021999.html
if doctors want to buy a matching porsche, why should we hold them back and stop them short of fulfilling their dreams? it's only humans we're dealing with.

[boutons_]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/images/title_printerfriendly3.jpg

Judicial Watch Releases Analysis Of FDA Data Claiming Gardasil Vaccination Can Lead To Serious Health Problems, Death

08 Oct 2007

The conservative group Judicial Watch (http://www.judicialwatch.org/) on Thursday released an analysis of FDA (http://www.fda.gov/) data that found Merck (http://www.merck.com/)'s human papillomavirus vaccine Gardasil might be dangerous or fatal to young women, members of the group said, CQ HealthBeat (http://www.cq.com/corp/show.do?page=products_cqhealthbeat) reports (Lubbes, CQ HealthBeat, 10/4).

Gardasil in clinical trials has been shown to be 100% effective in preventing infection with HPV strains 16 and 18, which together cause about 70% of cervical cancer cases, and about 99% effective in preventing HPV strains 6 and 11, which together with HPV strains 16 and 18 cause about 90% of genital wart cases among women not already infected with these strains.

FDA in June 2006 approved (http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?hint=2&DR_ID=37807) Gardasil for sale and marketing to girls and women ages nine to 26, and CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/)'s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/acip/default.htm) later that month voted unanimously to recommend that girls ages 11 and 12 receive the vaccine, which is given in a three-shot series (Kaiser Daily Women's Health Policy Report (http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?hint=2&DR_ID=46095), 7/10).

Analysis, CDC Data

According to Judicial Watch, 3,461 complaints about Gardasil have been filed with FDA's Vaccine Adverse Event Report System (http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaers/vaers.htm) since its approval last year, and 11 women died after exposure to the vaccine. In addition, some women developed severe health problems after receiving Gardasil, the analysis said. Curtis Allen, a CDC spokesperson, said the agency has confirmed four deaths that occurred after the patients received Gardasil, but none of the deaths was linked directly to the vaccine. Allen said that there have been fewer complaints about adverse effects associated with Gardasil than there have been for other drugs.

Several of the reports to FDA of deaths of girls and women who received Gardasil note that the patient had developed a blood clot. Allen said that Gardasil is not known to increase risk of blood clots. He added that Judicial Watch's analysis does not prove that Gardasil causes death and that the reports of women who died after receiving the vaccine statistically are normal within the population.

According to CQ HealthBeat, there is disagreement over the data in part because the reports of adverse events come from several sources, including health professionals and pharmaceutical companies, which are required to disclose potential problems with vaccines, including rumors and third-party information. The Judicial Watch analysis includes a report about a doctor who at a conference heard about two patients dying after receiving Gardasil. Another incident involved the death of a 17-year-old girl immediately after receiving the vaccine, which was reported to FDA by "a gynecologist who was informed of the case from another gynecologist."

Reaction
Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch, said that if Gardasil is "as dangerous as it seems to be, it does not seem to be good public health policy." Kelley Dougherty, a spokesperson for Merck, said that it is impossible to determine whether the reports are actual fatalities related to the vaccine or rumors. The FDA only documents deaths that are reported but the agency does not show cause and effect, according to CQ HealthBeat. "There are no reporters that have a correlative effect," Dougherty said.

Allen said that Judicial Watch "is playing loose" with data on the vaccine. Fitton defended the group's analysis and added that it has filed a lawsuit against FDA to require the agency to provide more information about the vaccine. "The reports are what they are," Fitton said, adding, "The CDC can explain them away, and Merck can explain them away. I don't think it's just randomness" (CQ HealthBeat, 10/4).

The analysis is available online (http://www.judicialwatch.org/6428.shtml).

Bloomberg/Austin American-Statesman Examines Sales of Gardasil

In related news, Bloomberg/Austin American-Statesman (http://www.statesman.com/search/content/business/stories/other/10/05/1005merck.html) on Friday examined how Gardasil "could become the best-selling vaccine in history" as Merck "prepares to expand its use to men."

According to Bloomberg/American-Statesman, Merck has made $1.4 billion in Gardasil sales in the drug's first year on the market. Merck is conducting studies to prove that Gardasil can prevent HPV infection in men. If the vaccine were approved for use in boys and men, annual sales of the vaccine could be as high as $10 billion, according to Lisa Kelly, an analyst at Wood Mackenzie Consultants (http://www.woodmacresearch.com/home/index.html) (Cullen, Bloomberg/Austin American-Statesman, 10/5).

Reprinted with kind permission from http://www.kaisernetwork.org (http://www.kaisernetwork.org/). You can view the entire Kaiser Daily Health Policy Report, search the archives, or sign up for email delivery at http://www.kaisernetwork.org/dailyreports/healthpolicy. The Kaiser Daily Health Policy Report is published for kaisernetwork.org, a free service of The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation© 2005 Advisory Board Company and Kaiser Family Foundation. All rights reserved.

Article URL: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/84804.php


===================

The vaccine is unnecessary in healthy women who can shake off HPV infection like they can for most viruses.

[Whisky Dog]

By reading the first few pages of this thread you can see just how easy it is to take a giant bite of anything that Big Pharm or the Govt. tell you is good for you or your family. It was extremely disturbing that Perry would actually make it mandatory for every female child to be given a drug that had not been fully researched for long term effects or effects in certain parts of the population. Just the specter of medicinal allergies alone can cause all sorts of issues and child deaths because of the mandate, and obviously the big time dollars going to his buddies at Merck (some of which undoubtedly would have gotten redirected right back at Perry) were more important to Perry than the potential specter of thousands or millions of dead children. Can you imagine if this stuff was forced on people starting this year and it comes out that this shit kills even a moderately small percentage of the girls who get the vaccine?


MOney, Money money money money, MONEY!!! Our new GOD.

[Spurminator]

I must say, I haven't seen a whole lot of HPV awareness ads lately...

[lil'mo]

hpv killed my sister, and raped my mother!

[mookie2001]

funny how all the females havent posted for like 3 pages since elpimpo called them out

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Go cancer!


I'm this fucking close to putting Mookie on ignore.

The best reason for making this "mandatory" is to give free access to it for many people.


http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060322/060322_keith_jackson_vsml_10p..vsmall.jpg

If you had to bet all your life earnings on which person would not support this HPV vaccine, who would you choose? ChumpDumper, Manny, or Keith Jackson?

It's a brainracker!

[mookie2001]

http://www.abcmedianet.com/showcontent/sports/commentators/i/jackson.jpgwoah, theyre only making it mandatory because the poor people dont care about their BABYs health, nellie

[mookie2001]

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060322/060322_keith_jackson_vsml_10p..vsmall.jpg

If you had to bet all your life earnings on which person would not support this HPV vaccine, who would you choose? ChumpDumper, Manny, or Keith Jackson?

It's a brainracker!but you only know one fact

manny watches 24







ROFLROFL

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Not.So.Fast.

ROFLROFL

[mookie2001]

:lol

The funniest thing about the people complaining about this is when they complain that this is a cash cow for Merck. So? Its like the other thread when people were talking about the organization behind the child predator stings and how they were going to make money about this.

How on Earth do people expect things to get done in a capitalistic society if there is no monetary reward at the end? Who gives a shit if someone makes money of off something? I mean really, wtf?

[LaMarcus Bryant]

hoh, boy!

[mookie2001]

Perry SHOULD be rewared, i would say a billion a year and a free term as gov

think of all the little girls he'll save from stds

[boutons_]

HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed: FDA Documents Reveal HPV "Not Associated with Cervical Cancer"

Originally published December 19 2007

HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed: FDA Documents Reveal HPV "Not Associated with Cervical Cancer"

by Mike Adams

A NewsTarget investigation has revealed that the FDA knew as early as 2003 that Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) was not linked to cervical cancer. Despite this knowledge, the FDA, along with key pharmaceutical companies, has continued to push for the use of HPV vaccinations as a defense against cervical cancer, even when its own research showed no link exists.

Today, NewsTarget publishes, "The Great HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed," a special report that cites from numerous FDA documents and clinical studies to show that HPV vaccines (http://www.newstarget.com/vaccines.html) are not only ineffective, they may actually be dangerous! As revealed in the special report, the Gardasil (http://www.newstarget.com/Gardasil.html) vaccine has been linked to a 44.6% increase in precancerous lesions in some women, raising serious doubts over the sensibility of mandatory vaccination (http://www.newstarget.com/vaccination.html) policies.

The special report is available now at:
http://www.newstarget.com/Report_HPV_Vaccine_0.html

This special report reveals:

• The FDA stating "HPV (http://www.newstarget.com/HPV.html) is not associated with cervical cancer (http://www.newstarget.com/cervical_cancer.html)."

• Evidence that shows HPV vaccines actually increase the risk of precancerous lesions by 44.6% in some women.

• The FDA admitting that "most [HPV] infections are short-lived and not associated with cervical cancer (http://www.newstarget.com/cancer.html)."

• Why mandatory vaccination policies ultimately lead to the harming of young women.

• Why one shocking study published in JAMA (August, 2007) concluded, "No significant evidence of a vaccine therapeutic effect was observed..." and added, "... rates of viral clearance over a 12-month period are not influenced by vaccination."

• The real story behind the HPV vaccination frenzy: Disease mongering, corporate profits and junk science.

These revelations (and more) are spelled out in detail in this new special report by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, a consumer health advocate and bioethicist who strongly opposes mandatory vaccination policies. The report is available now at no charge at:
http://www.newstarget.com/Report_HPV_Vaccine_0.html

http://www.newstarget.com/022404.html

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

In other words, it appears that if the vaccine is given to a young woman who already carries HPV in a "harmless" state, it may "activate" the infection and directly cause precancerous lesions to appear. The vaccine, in other words, may accelerate the development of precancerous lesions in women.

Oh, the irony.

[thispego]

Ohhohohohohhhoooo Boy!!!!!

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i hope everyone that profits from this rots in hell. big pharma. all of it. medicines. vaccines are POISON and it's all a money making SCHEME. i know all are not aware(on both sides of the scrip), but ignorance is a choice.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Some blame lies at the feet of the parents out there who subjected their children to this vaccine when there were still so many unresolved questions about Gardasil.

Don't worry, I'm sure a class action lawsuit will absolve them of any responsibility in their eyes.

[boutons_]

Parents, if you want to reduce your and your kids' risk of HPV infection/persistence:

Dr. Internet and his amazing, free library:

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/9/876

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=11366680&cmd=showdetailview&indexed=google

http://www.mothernature.com/Library/Bookshelf/Books/10/46.cfm

http://www.4women.gov/faq/stdhpv.htm

So, a healthy immune system can shake off the HPV virus by itself. And vitamins and supplements can strengthen a weakened immune system, while lowering the risk of infection.

FDA and Merck, go fuck yourselves.

[thispego]

you mean the human body can repair itself!!!!!!!????

[Spurminator]

I'm beginning to realize that my wife's fears were exploited and this makes me very, very angry.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

MannyIsGod owned me so ruthlessly in this thread

I believe i started out saying how vaccines were harmful poison and he exposed me to be talking nothing but shit and nonsense.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

This thread is devilishly hilarious if you read it start to finish

I can't wait to see future Gardasil newsbreaks and read them in the context of the first 12 pages of this thread.


http://louisville.edu/medschool/med-peds/residents/journal-club/11-07%20Article.pdf

[BeerIsGood!]

This thread is classic, maybe the best ever. Every ST poster should read through this thread.



Classic case of buying into the bullshit then getting it shoved in your face.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

It's unbelievable how classic this thread is

Also how not one person pro-gardasil has posted in this thread in like half a year is hilarious
remember when ChumpDumper was like "Hooray for Cancer!"
It's funny in a new context
because by being pro-gardasil, he could be, in effect, hooraying for cancer, with no sarcasm involved

[SpursWoman]

It's unbelievable how classic this thread is

Also how not one person pro-gardasil has posted in this thread in like half a year is hilarious
remember when ChumpDumper was like "Hooray for Cancer!"
It's funny in a new context
because by being pro-gardasil, he could be, in effect, hooraying for cancer, with no sarcasm involved


Especially because it's been buried on page 150 for like half a year. Sorry, I didn't give a shit enough to keep bumping it. :spin

I'm not supposed to buy into articles that say how great it is, why should I buy into articles that say how terrible it is? BFD ... another cut & paste.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

This thread has been bumped many times since its inception;

The last link I posted was a scientific study by like 11 or 12 doctors;

here is the conclusion from that study:
"In women positive for HPV DNA, HPV-16/18 vaccination does not accelerate clearance of the virus and should not be used to treat prevalent infections."

http://louisville.edu/medschool/med...7%20Article.pdf

I think I'd give more street cred to a panel of doctors over Rick Perry and Merck, but that's just my opinion.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Can you link up the trial data of 9-15 year old girls? From what I've read it hasn't been made public or is virtually non-existent due to a small sample size(1200) and a short follow-up(18 months), but that article(s) was 6 months old.

The reason I couldn't find it was simply because they never did such studies:


That is why it is important to note that the vaccine has not been tested for efficacy (effectiveness) in younger girls, she said. Instead, the effectiveness was "bridged" from the older girls to the younger ones - meaning that Merck assumed that because it proved effective in the older girls, it also would be effective in the younger ones. The actual tests on the younger girls, ages 9 to 15, were only for safety and immune response, Harper said, and then only as a shot by itself, or in combination with only one other vaccine, Hepatitis B. It has not been tested in conjunction with any other shots a girl receives at about age 11, Harper said.

http://www.fwdailynews.com/articles/2007/03/14/online_features/hpv_vaccine/hpv01.txt

Scary.

And from the same article:


"To mandate now is simply to Merck's benefit, and only to Merck's benefit," she said.

Duh.

And this from Diane Harper, a lead researcher who spent 20 years developing the vaccine for humanpapilloma virus. She also was the director of an international clinical trial for the HPV vaccines.

What do I win?

[SpursWoman]

Sorry, I guess I just must have missed it. It must be all of those horrible vaccinations I had as a child eating away at my attention span. :spin

[LaMarcus Bryant]

unbelievable

[Viva Las Espuelas]

This thread is classic, maybe the best ever. Every ST poster should read through this thread.



Classic case of buying into the bullshit then getting it shoved in your face.i just re-read the thread and there was a lot of chest-thumping going on. i truly feel sorry and hope nothing bad comes from the people that poi...i mean, vaccinated their child.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

It seems that the power of legislation keeps shifting from the government to the corporations. This really scares me.

[ploto]

I am supposed to believe some bogus website that claims HPV is not linked to cervical cancer. Not worthy of a response.

[boutons_]

You might think newstarget is bogus, but newswtarget is quoting FDA documents:

"http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2003/NEW00890.html

In it, the FDA says, "The HPV DNA test is not intended to substitute for regular Pap screening. Nor is it intended to screen women under 30 who have normal Pap tests. Although the rate of HPV infection in this group is high, most infections are short-lived and not associated with cervical cancer." (Emphasis added.)"

"Furthermore, the FDA states, in the same press release, "Most women who become infected with HPV are able to eradicate the virus and suffer no apparent long-term consequences to their health.""

http://www.newstarget.com/Report_HPV_Vaccine_2.html

So the question is of believing the FDA at all, on anything, one way or the other. :lol

The best working assumption is that the FDA exists to make money for BigPharma, which is why BigPharma exists, to make money from sick people, not make sick people well.

[thispego]

I am supposed to believe some bogus website that claims HPV is not linked to cervical cancer. Not worthy of a response.

I think I'd give more street cred to a panel of doctors over Rick Perry and Merck, but that's just my opinion.

I wont believe anything the refutes what I've already accepted as truth.

[ploto]

You might want to check your reading comprehension. MOST HPV infections are short-lived and not associated with cancer-- BUT SOME ARE! That is not the same thing as saying that HPV is not linked to cervical cancer. Certain strains of HPV are clearly linked to cervical cancer.

As to the other article from the physicians it says not to use the vaccine to treat those who already have HPV. DUH? It's a vaccine, not a treatment.

It is EXTREMELY dangerous to tell women that HPV and cervical cancer are nt linked because they ARE. Whether you think that should make the vaccine be required is a different issue but to take the statment that many HPV sufferers never get cancer to say the same thing as there is no link is dangerous. Many smokers never get lung cancer but that does not mean that they are not linked. They are.

This medical issue is not about Rick Perry and pharmaceutical companies- the medical issue is accepted fact. The issue of the vaccine is separate. Trying to promite mis-truths to support a stance against the vaccine is faulty at best and dangerous at worst.

From the CDC:
Genital HPV is the most common sexually transmitted infection in the United States; an estimated 6.2 million persons are newly infected every year. Although the majority of infections cause no clinical symptoms and are self-limited, persistent infection with oncogenic types can cause cervical cancer in women. HPV infection also is the cause of genital warts and is associated with other anogenital cancers. Cervical cancer rates have decreased in the United States because of widespread use of Papanicolaou testing, which can detect precancerous lesions of the cervix before they develop into cancer; nevertheless, during 2007, an estimated 11,100 new cases will be diagnosed and approximately 3,700 women will die from cervical cancer. In certain countries where cervical cancer screening is not routine, cervical cancer is a common cancer in women.


Approximately 100 HPV types have been identified, over 40 of which infect the genital area. Genital HPV types are categorized according to their epidemiologic association with cervical cancer. Infections with low-risk types (e.g., types 6 and 11) can cause benign or low-grade cervical cell changes, genital warts, and recurrent respiratory papillomatosis. High-risk HPV types act as carcinogens in the development of cervical cancer and other anogenital cancers. High-risk types, including types 16, 18, 31, 33, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 56, 58, 59, 68, 69, 73, and 82, can cause low-grade cervical cell abnormalities, high-grade cervical cell abnormalities that are precursors to cancer, and anogenital cancers. High-risk HPV types are detected in 99% of cervical cancers; approximately 70% of cervical cancers worldwide are caused by types 16 and 18.



So whether you want the vaccine or not for a disease that you may feel will never affect your family, that is your viewpoint, but do not say there is not a link to any woman who knows someone who has dealt with it.

[CavsSuperFan]

This is a spirited debate...On the one side we have research scientist, medical doctors and concerned informed women praising the benefits of the Gardasil vaccine...

On the other side we have ignorant men “who are not at risk” saying that the Gardasil vaccine is not needed...

Too Close to call... :smokin

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It is EXTREMELY dangerous to tell women that HPV and cervical cancer are nt linked because they ARE.

More dangerous than trying to mandate a vaccine on a group of women of whom you've never tested the vaccine on?

I'd call it a push.

[2Blonde]

You might want to check your reading comprehension. MOST HPV infections are short-lived and not associated with cancer-- BUT SOME ARE! That is not the same thing as saying that HPV is not linked to cervical cancer. Certain strains of HPV are clearly linked to cervical cancer.

As to the other article from the physicians it says not to use the vaccine to treat those who already have HPV. DUH? It's a vaccine, not a treatment.

It is EXTREMELY dangerous to tell women that HPV and cervical cancer are nt linked because they ARE. Whether you think that should make the vaccine be required is a different issue but to take the statment that many HPV sufferers never get cancer to say the same thing as there is no link is dangerous. Many smokers never get lung cancer but that does not mean that they are not linked. They are.

This medical issue is not about Rick Perry and pharmaceutical companies- the medical issue is accepted fact. The issue of the vaccine is separate. Trying to promite mis-truths to support a stance against the vaccine is faulty at best and dangerous at worst.

From the CDC:
Genital HPV is the most common sexually transmitted infection in the United States; an estimated 6.2 million persons are newly infected every year. Although the majority of infections cause no clinical symptoms and are self-limited, persistent infection with oncogenic types can cause cervical cancer in women. HPV infection also is the cause of genital warts and is associated with other anogenital cancers. Cervical cancer rates have decreased in the United States because of widespread use of Papanicolaou testing, which can detect precancerous lesions of the cervix before they develop into cancer; nevertheless, during 2007, an estimated 11,100 new cases will be diagnosed and approximately 3,700 women will die from cervical cancer. In certain countries where cervical cancer screening is not routine, cervical cancer is a common cancer in women.


Approximately 100 HPV types have been identified, over 40 of which infect the genital area. Genital HPV types are categorized according to their epidemiologic association with cervical cancer. Infections with low-risk types (e.g., types 6 and 11) can cause benign or low-grade cervical cell changes, genital warts, and recurrent respiratory papillomatosis. High-risk HPV types act as carcinogens in the development of cervical cancer and other anogenital cancers. High-risk types, including types 16, 18, 31, 33, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 56, 58, 59, 68, 69, 73, and 82, can cause low-grade cervical cell abnormalities, high-grade cervical cell abnormalities that are precursors to cancer, and anogenital cancers. High-risk HPV types are detected in 99% of cervical cancers; approximately 70% of cervical cancers worldwide are caused by types 16 and 18.



So whether you want the vaccine or not for a disease that you may feel will never affect your family, that is your viewpoint, but do not say there is not a link to any woman who knows someone who has dealt with it.
:clap :clap :clap

[2Blonde]

it's just funny to me how people try to argue for mandating the hpv vaccine

the same people who think the hpv vaccine should be mandatory are the exact same people who are going to get their girls vaccinated anyway, regardless of mandate

but there's this big jump in thinking from, i like the hpv vaccine and want my daughter to get it so she will have a lesser chance of developing cancer
to
i like the hpv vaccine and everyone else's daughter should get it too

Well I liked the vaccine and had my daughter get it when it first became available... and I don't think it has to be mandatory. I have seen the effects of HPV turning into cervical cancer with someone I knew and I don't want my daughter to experience that. Even if the chances are only 10% ( whatever the number is ) that HPV could turn cancerous then I would rather do all I could to stem those chances.

I think the reason the Governor and others want to make it mandatory was because then public funding would help pay for those who can't afford it's price tag. I get that and have no problem with it but that doesn't mean I'm advocating it for everyone.

[boutons_]

The (mandatory), expensive vaccine IS the issue.

For whatever damage the vaccine does (and it does cause damage, including death), do its benefits offset that damage?

And what are those benefits in terms of preventing cancer?

How many people actualy get get cancer from HPV, as opposed to "associated with"?

And then vaccinate 1000s of people, and then wait years to see if HPV really caused cancer.

And then are there any other ways to prevent/minimize/clear HPV infection, or is the expensive vaccine?

Merck's own gardisil.com opens with the headline:

"GARDASIL is the only vaccine that may help guard against diseases that are caused by human papillomavirus (HPV) Types 6, 11, 16, and 18."
Merck doesn't say DOES or WILL, but MAY. I'm sure Merck's lawyers were involved in that weasal-y CYA headline. GMAFB. Does it work? or doesn't it?

Let yourself be scared by Merck's marketing, plop down your $100s, get your vaccine, MAYbe the vaccine won't make your sick or kill you, and MAYbe if an HPV vector actually arrives in your vagina, MAYbe Gardisil will prevent HPV and MAYbe cancer.

===========

btw, here's the kind illegal, ripoff, scumbag crimes BigPharma commits to inflate their cartel-ish, FDA-protected excessive profits, and this is just an example of the ones caught, not all of the culprits:

Judge Rules U.S. Drug Companies Defrauded Medicare with Price Fixing Scheme

by David Gutierrez

(NewsTarget) A federal judge has ruled that three pharmaceutical companies artificially marked up their prices in order to defraud Medicare and encourage doctors to prescribe their drugs over those of competitors.

The decision came in a class-action lawsuit against AstraZeneca, Bristol-Meyers Squibb, Johnson & Johnson and Warwick Pharmaceuticals, a subsidiary of Schering-Plough Corp. U.S. District Judge Patti Saris ruled against AstraZeneca, Bristol-Meyers Squibb and Warwick, while clearing Johnson & Johnson of "egregious misconduct."

However, she described even Johnson & Johnson's actions as "troubling."

Saris agreed with the plaintiffs' complaint that the drug companies (http://www.newstarget.com/drug_companies.html) deliberately inflated their average wholesale prices in 2003, when those prices were still used to determine Medicare reimbursements. This created a gap between the prices Medicare was paying and the (lower) prices charged to doctors (http://www.newstarget.com/doctors.html) and pharmacies. This meant that doctors would actually be reimbursed more than they had paid for the drugs, creating a profit incentive for doctors to prescribe certain products.

The judge ruled that AstraZeneca had overcharged for its prostate cancer (http://www.newstarget.com/cancer.html) drug Zoladex and ordered the company to pay nearly $4.5 million to one of the two groups of plaintiffs. Likewise, she found that Bristol-Meyers Squibb had overcharged for cancer drugs Blenoxane, Cytoxan, Rubex, Taxol and Vepesid, and ordered the company to pay $183,454. Saris requested more information to set damages amounts for the other group of plaintiffs.

While Saris did not decide on the damages the company must pay, she ruled that Warrick had overcharged for the generic asthma medication albuterol sulfate (the same medicine sold by GlaxoSmithKline under the brand name Ventolin).

One of the plaintiffs' lawyers, Steve Berman, said that his clients were very happy with the ruling.

"We are also grateful that she found [that] the biggest victims were the patients who had to pay these outrageous prices out of pocket as a result of the defendants' wrongful conduct," he said.

================

The penalties are weak wrist-slaps, not really punitive, not disuasive.

[Sportcamper]

In Cali the vaccine is not required so insurance pays nothing….The 3 shots run approximately 500 dollars…Yet Viagra is covered by medical insurance…Even if the guy is in his 20’s…. :lol

There is something seriously wrong with the system….

[thispego]

http://i2.tinypic.com/6xhcqw2.jpg
"Is the drug ready... or not??"

[LaMarcus Bryant]

pimpo laying down the law

ploto, you come correct about not automatically believing the original news link boutons posted, but if you clicked on the FDA documents linked within, to see where the news page grabbed their own opinion from you'd realize what we're talking about here

You're right about cervical cancer meaning HPV is most likely the root cause
but you're wrong in assuming that means HPV means cancer will develop

the word "can" was in your little quote from the CDC, you realize that right

that, combined with the mandatory nature of the vaccination equals pure bull shit

noone in here is procancer, you realize that right

[timvp]

I do have to agree that this thread was the shining moment of the Mookie Crew's history. When elpimpo or thispego or whoever it was pulled out the mandatory preggo test card, that was some hardcore internets ownage.

That said, since a member of the Mookie Crew is always ready with a contrarian viewpoint in every thread in existence on SpursTalk, this thread seems more and more like the outlier. You throw a contrarian take at every thread, one is bound to stick.

The Mookie Crew's New Years resolution should be to up their contrarian to success ratio.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

dude i agree with like 99% of everything you say in the spurs forum whatchyou smokin (yes i realize this is also a contrarian viewpoint)

you're like 1997 master p and I'm like 1995 silkk the shocker
always putting me down and refusing to accept my greatness

[LaMarcus Bryant]

oh, that's right, timvp only listens to RADIO master p

[timvp]

LaMarcus has one of the lower contrarian to post ratios of the Mookie Crew. Him and Cannot_be_faded have low ratios.

But there are more than two corsos in this pregame show . . .

[ploto]

You're right about cervical cancer meaning HPV is most likely the root cause
but you're wrong in assuming that means HPV means cancer will develop
Might want to check that reading comprehension again. Nowhere did I ever say HPV means cancer will develop. Nowhere. I clearly stated that in many cases it does not. But in some cases it does-- it causes cancer and kills women.

It was added to the list because the vaccine is recommended by the ACIP of the CDC, ACOG, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and American Cancer Society

I can assure all the men in here that I know a whlole helluva lot more about what happens with my body than you do.

Hate the mandaory vaccine but do not lie about the disease.

[thispego]

Maybe you need to check your reading comprehension. Not one person here has said that HPV is not linked to cervical cancer. Everyone knows that, why are you trying to convince us? If you would read the whole thread you'd see this started with mandating the vaccine. But whether it's mandated or not the fact remains that Gardasil is WAY undertested. Yet so many want to be the first to get injected because it helps prevent what you believe to be a very real and likely illness. That line of reasoning is understandable because "if they created a vaccine for it and it's getting all this national attention, cervical cancer must be a huge threat and I must protect myself and my children!!!!!."

Merck has you right where they want you.

In 2006, in Texas, the only state I know to have mandated this drug there were
13,150 new cases of breast cancer,
9,510 new cases of colo/rectal cancer,
3,930 new cases of melanomas of the skin,
3,340 new cases of Non-Hodgkins Lymphomas,
2,350 new cases of Ovarian/Endo cancer,
2,250 new cases of Leukemia,
and a whopping 920 new cases of cervical cancer.
In fact, cervical cancer has the lowest incidence rate of all cancers in EVERY state.

Yes HPV causes Cancer
Yes Gardasil was found to prevent genital warts caused by HPV types 6 and 11 and prevent pre-cancer cervix cell changes caused by types 16 and 18.

BUT...

The vaccine protects against only 70% of cervical cancers and doesn't protect against all cancer-causing types of HPV, so even in women who have been vaccinated, cervical cancer is still possible.

Not to mention it is under tested, it can be extremely harmful if taken while pregnant, and is rendered ineffective if already infected with HPV.

[ploto]

Not one person here has said that HPV is not linked to cervical cancer. Everyone knows that, why are you trying to convince us?

A NewsTarget investigation has revealed that the FDA knew as early as 2003 that Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) was not linked to cervical cancer.

Try again.


Yet so many want to be the first to get injected because it helps prevent what you believe to be a very real and likely illness. That line of reasoning is understandable because "if they created a vaccine for it and it's getting all this national attention, cervical cancer must be a huge threat and I must protect myself and my children!!!!!."

Merck has you right where they want you.

I am sick and tired of a bunch of condescending men in this thread who act as if I do not know my facts. I know all about the incidence of cervical cancer; I know all about the research on the disease; I have not been scared by Merck's campaign. I did not even get the vaccine but somehow you assume I have. I make informed and wise choices about what I do with my body and what I do for my child. Men in here have told me that somehow I am too stupid to understand the articles, but they are the ones who are clueless. You hate vaccines. We get it. You hate pharmaceutical companes, We get it. You hate the government telling you that you have to vaccinate your child. We get it (although you really don't have to). But do not patronize me nor talk down to me when I am a very intelligent and informed woman about healthcare and my body.

[thispego]

Try again..

boutons may or may not believe that HPV is linked to cervical cancer, i dont now because he constantly edits his posts. But regardless of what he believes, you're just qouting a qoute that he qouted. So no, still, no one here believes there is not a link between HPV and cervical cancer. Especially the people who you suggest should brush up on their reading comprehension. :rolleyes


I am sick and tired of a bunch of condescending men in this thread who act as if I do not know my facts. I know all about the incidence of cervical cancer; I know all about the research on the disease; I have not been scared by Merck's campaign. I did not even get the vaccine but somehow you assume I have. I make informed and wise choices about what I do with my body and what I do for my child. Men in here have told me that somehow I am too stupid to understand the articles, but they are the ones who are clueless. You hate vaccines. We get it. You hate pharmaceutical companes, We get it. You hate the government telling you that you have to vaccinate your child. We get it (although you really don't have to). But do not patronize me nor talk down to me when I am a very intelligent and informed woman about healthcare and my body.
I never said you didnt understand an article, I said you missed the point of the thread. and yay for you for making informed and intelligent decisions with your female body :tu. seriously

[SpursWoman]

boutons may or may not believe that HPV is linked to cervical cancer, i dont now because he constantly edits his posts. But regardless of what he believes, you're just qouting a qoute that he qouted. So no, still, no one here believes there is not a link between HPV and cervical cancer. Especially the people who you suggest should brush up on their reading comprehension. :rolleyes


He bolded that part and tripled the font size. :wtf

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2131421&postcount=419

[medstudent]

Just cause you aren't protected 100% doesn't mean you shouldn't get the vaccine. Pertussis vaccine is 85% affected, Pneumococcal is 90% for the serotypes it covers, and any vaccine you look at is going to have a failure rate to a certain degree.

The rub lies in that if everyone gets vaccinated, the 10-30% that aren't immunized are protected by herd immunity. This is true for HPV as well. People will still get cervical cancer, but over time the incidence will fall precipitously.

[thispego]

He bolded that part and tripled the font size. :wtf

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2131421&postcount=419
after several edits. the font size got bigger each time...

and again, I dont know if bouton's actually believes that or if he's just pointing out a new finding to fire this debate up again. I'll let bouton's speak for himself and if he actually believes HPV does not have anything to do with cervical cancer then i will stand corrected.

[thispego]

Just cause you aren't protected 100% doesn't mean you shouldn't get the vaccine. Pertussis vaccine is 85% affected, Pneumococcal is 90% for the serotypes it covers, and any vaccine you look at is going to have a failure rate to a certain degree.

The rub lies in that if everyone gets vaccinated, the 10-30% that aren't immunized are protected by herd immunity. This is true for HPV as well. People will still get cervical cancer, but over time the incidence will fall precipitously.
the incidence rates were already falling before the mandate was issued.
they would have continued to fall while Gardasil spent a few more years in the testing phase, but fuck that, Merck was hemmorhaging money from Vioxx lawsuits, they need to make money NOW!

[LaMarcus Bryant]

this guy knows what he's talking about.
i like the cut of his gib.

[thispego]

its my right to ascertain things!!

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Is it SANchez?

[thispego]

rofl rofl

[LaMarcus Bryant]

They should rename this thread "Reign in Bload"

[timvp]

( () /\/ + R @ R 1 @ /\/ !!!

[boutons_]

NewsTarget.com printable article
Originally published January 9 2008

HPV Vaccine Researcher Criticizes Drug Marketing as "Public Health Experiment"

by David Gutierrez

(NewsTarget) A researcher who has spent 20 years studying human papillomavirus (HPV) and did the bulk of the work that was used to develop a vaccine for several strains of the virus has warned that mandating the vaccine for girls under the age of 18 may actually backfire, causing cervical cancer rates to go up.

Twenty-six states are considering some form of mandatory HPV vaccination for school-age girls.

Diane M. Harper, director of Dartmouth Medical School's Gynecologic Cancer Prevention Research Group at the Norris Cotton Cancer Center in New Hampshire, warned that there have been no tests of the vaccine's effectiveness on girls under the age of 15. The drug may not be effective on younger girls, and it may have unforeseen side effects or interactions with other vaccines given at that age. Nonetheless, the Centers for Disease Control's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has recommended it for ages 9-26.

"Giving it to 11-year-olds is a great big public health experiment," Harper said. "To mandate now is simply to Merck's benefit, and only to Merck's benefit."

The HPV vaccine produced by Merck protects against two strains of the virus that have been identified as responsible for 70 percent of cervical cancer cases. But with the way the drug is being marketed, Harper is concerned that vaccinated women may decide that they are immune, and forego their yearly Pap smear testing.

Harper also warned that the vaccine is ineffective if given to someone who is already infected -- and because HPV is spread by skin-to-skin contact, a person does not have to be sexually active to contract it. For this reason, Harper suggests giving the vaccine only to those who test negative for the targeted HPV strains.

The HPV test is conducted by vaginal swab, which Harper says is inappropriate for children.

Finally, Harper warned that not enough research has been done to know how long the vaccine lasts, or at what age a booster may be needed. This means that even if the vaccine is effective in young girls, it may have worn off by the age at which they are most susceptible to cervical cancer.

"The push for mandatory vaccination is based on marketing, not science," added Mike Adams, author of numerous articles that oppose mandatory vaccination policies. "It's nothing but a clever Big Pharma scheme to sell more drugs to yet more people who don't need them."

http://www.newstarget.com/022478.html

[thispego]

Originally published January 9 2008

"The push for mandatory vaccination is based on marketing, not science," added Mike Adams, author of numerous articles that oppose mandatory vaccination policies. "It's nothing but a clever Big Pharma scheme to sell more drugs to yet more people who don't need them."

gulp.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

Now let me get this straight if the state mandates this then what? There has to be a way to refuse the drug.

[thispego]

Texas allows parents to opt out of inoculations by filing an affidavit stating that he or she objected to the vaccine for religious or philosophical reasons.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

|3 |_ () |) 3 |)


:lmao !!!!

yeeeeeewwwww jeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssss keeeentttt deeeewwwwwwwwwww ttttttinnnnnnnnnnngs liiiiiiiiiiiiiiike deeeetttttttttttttttttt

[boutons_deux]

Bogus study claims Gardasil is safe

Dear Friend,

There's so many conflicting reports floating around about Gardasil that it can be tough for parents to know what to believe. And a recent study in the Journal of the American Medical Association only clouds the issue even further.

The study claims that Gardasil's side effects are rare and continue to occur at the same rate they did in the clinical trials.

But what they don't tell you is that those trials were a sham.

Instead of giving the control group a true placebo, they gave them one that was aluminum-based. To the untrained eye, this can make the results look convincing--and that's what the drug company is banking on.

But the truth is, the aluminum-based placebo pills alone can cause side effects like nerve damage, the deck was stacked. So it's no wonder the drug wasn't that bad compared to the placebo--they were both equally dangerous!

But the cat's already out of the bag, and a growing number of doctors, researchers and parents aren't being fooled by these clinical shenanigans. You won't be fooled, either when you see the damage it's doing.

Dozens of little girls have died after getting this vaccine. Others have experienced disabling nerve damage, and some have even gotten ALS -- Lou Gehrig's disease.

That may be why the editors of JAMA decided to run an editorial alongside this new study questioning whether this vaccine offers any benefit over a pap smear.

Allow me to answer: It doesn't.

Even one of the top researchers behind the vaccine's clinical trials, who has been paid by Merck to speak about its supposed wonders, is now publicly questioning it.

No, I didn't just make that up. Dr. Diane Harper told CBS News in August that some of the side effects could make the vaccine riskier than the cervical cancer it's supposed to stop.

Remember, this is the same company that rushed Vioxx through the system, and we know how that turned out. Some folks even say Merck's HPV vaccine really stands for "Help Pay for Vioxx." :lol

Here's the answer we should all give them: Not at the expense of our daughters' health.

www.douglassreport.com (http://clicks.douglassreport.com//t/AQ/Xz4/ZCA/puA/AQ/AcO5yw/RbCd)

[thispego]

Yup

[mookie2001]

I do have to agree that this thread was the shining moment of the Mookie Crew's history. When elpimpo or thispego or whoever it was pulled out the mandatory preggo test card, that was some hardcore internets ownage.

That said, since a member of the Mookie Crew is always ready with a contrarian viewpoint in every thread in existence on SpursTalk, this thread seems more and more like the outlier. You throw a contrarian take at every thread, one is bound to stick.

The Mookie Crew's New Years resolution should be to up their contrarian to success ratio.


nobody has ever murdered more women in a single thread than 4cc in this one

classic

[Wild Cobra]

Instead of giving the control group a true placebo, they gave them one that was aluminum-based. To the untrained eye, this can make the results look convincing--and that's what the drug company is banking on.

Wow.

As I looked this up, you are right. Aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate used as the placebo, is the most dangerous part of the vaccine!

Sodium borate is also in the vaccine. Not nice stuff.

Here is an interesting link:

Gardasil Vaccine Ingredients (http://www.survivalbill.ca/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=6218)

[Cant_Be_Faded]

rofl @ timvp's classic failed contrarian ploy



timvpluva would have eaten this one up

[thispego]

Yes. There is a difference between being contrarian and always right. Sorry if we're so knowledgeable!

[boutons_deux]

"New numbers reveal more Gardasil deaths

Exposed!

Newly uncovered documents reveal that the world's most tragic and dangerous public health experiment has claimed more young victims.

Gardasil, Merck's horrifically bad HPV vaccine being pushed on little girls around the world, has been linked to 16 more deaths -- including four suicides -- and thousands of other terrifying side effects.

Even more outrageous, the feds have been busy trying to cover it up -- because instead of immediately warning the public and ending the program, they tried to hide all the damning evidence.

The FDA only came clean when forced to by the law after Judicial Watch filed a demand for the data under the Freedom of Information Act.

And in addition to the dozens of deaths already linked to this vaccine, FDA documents obtained by Judicial Watch revealed 16 new deaths between May 2009 and last month.

That's one young life needlessly cut short every month.

The FDA papers also revealed 3,589 new cases of adverse events after Gardasil vaccinations, including 789 "serious" cases, 213 that led to permanent disability, and 25 diagnoses of the debilitating and paralyzing nervous system disorder Guillain-Barre Syndrome.

And for what? For nothing!

Despite its poorly chosen nickname, all this "cervical cancer vaccine" really offers is very limited protection from some of the strains of HPV that can cause the disease -- and researchers say even that can wear off in just a few years.

It's a clear case of "all risk and no benefit," but that hasn't stopped Big Pharma from pushing to have Gardasil added to the list of required vaccinations for school.

Virginia has even made it a law. But if you happen to live in that state, don't be intimidated by these bully tactics: You can spare your own daughter by simply refusing to let them stick her with this poison.

Just stick to your guns. One parent named in the new report said she initially declined the vaccination for her daughter, but was talked into it by the doctor.

Five weeks later, her 13-year-old girl was dead.

One more note: I'm old enough to remember when Pravda, the old Soviet news agency, was the Kremlin's comically relentless propaganda wing. Today, the Pravda Web site has better reporting on Gardasil than you'll find in most Western newspapers, with one recent article pointing out all the vaccine's ugly flaws and accusing Merck of ignoring its own research.

I still don't truskie the Russkies on most issues, but it just goes to show how our own pro-Big Pharma media has become a propaganda machine of its own."

http://clicks.douglassreport.com//t/AQ/AALX-g/AALhTw/AAKaGA/AQ/AcO5yw/jMbh

[desflood]

Even more outrageous, the feds have been busy trying to cover it up -- because instead of immediately warning the public and ending the program, they tried to hide all the damning evidence.

The FDA only came clean when forced to by the law after Judicial Watch filed a demand for the data under the Freedom of Information Act.

And in addition to the dozens of deaths already linked to this vaccine, FDA documents obtained by Judicial Watch revealed 16 new deaths between May 2009 and last month.

That's one young life needlessly cut short every month.

The FDA papers also revealed 3,589 new cases of adverse events after Gardasil vaccinations, including 789 "serious" cases, 213 that led to permanent disability, and 25 diagnoses of the debilitating and paralyzing nervous system disorder Guillain-Barre Syndrome.
One has to laugh at anybody still foolish or naive enough to believe that any government-related org is looking out for the interests of the people.

[mookie2001]

Rofl damn this was el classico- will someone please think of the children!

[boutons_deux]

The FDA, USDA, SEC, Treasury, etc regulatory agencies are corrupted and captured by corporations.

The govt is simply a proxy and policeman for the corps.

There effectively no way to correct this mess. The agences are part of the Exec, implementing rules from bills made by Legislators, all of whom are also corrupted by the corporations. The situation is beyond remediation.

[boutons_deux]

btw, while some vaccines have been wonderful successes, flu vaccines are a huge scam.

The Supreme Court has case now to decide whether kids destroyed by vaccines have the right to sue. My guess is the extreme right-wing, business friendly court will, again, protect the corporations.

[thispego]

who all was wrong in this thread? can't remember? someone go back and check for me, lol

[mrsmaalox]

I don't remember either. I just know seeing this thread again reminded me to call for an appt for my daughter's second shot before it's too late and she has to start over :toast

[ChumpDumper]

"New numbers reveal more Gardasil deaths

Exposed!

Newly uncovered documents reveal that the world's most tragic and dangerous public health experiment has claimed more young victims.

Gardasil, Merck's horrifically bad HPV vaccine being pushed on little girls around the world, has been linked to 16 more deaths -- including four suicides -- and thousands of other terrifying side effects.

Even more outrageous, the feds have been busy trying to cover it up -- because instead of immediately warning the public and ending the program, they tried to hide all the damning evidence.

The FDA only came clean when forced to by the law after Judicial Watch filed a demand for the data under the Freedom of Information Act.

And in addition to the dozens of deaths already linked to this vaccine, FDA documents obtained by Judicial Watch revealed 16 new deaths between May 2009 and last month.

That's one young life needlessly cut short every month.

The FDA papers also revealed 3,589 new cases of adverse events after Gardasil vaccinations, including 789 "serious" cases, 213 that led to permanent disability, and 25 diagnoses of the debilitating and paralyzing nervous system disorder Guillain-Barre Syndrome.

And for what? For nothing!

Despite its poorly chosen nickname, all this "cervical cancer vaccine" really offers is very limited protection from some of the strains of HPV that can cause the disease -- and researchers say even that can wear off in just a few years.

It's a clear case of "all risk and no benefit," but that hasn't stopped Big Pharma from pushing to have Gardasil added to the list of required vaccinations for school.

Virginia has even made it a law. But if you happen to live in that state, don't be intimidated by these bully tactics: You can spare your own daughter by simply refusing to let them stick her with this poison.

Just stick to your guns. One parent named in the new report said she initially declined the vaccination for her daughter, but was talked into it by the doctor.

Five weeks later, her 13-year-old girl was dead.

One more note: I'm old enough to remember when Pravda, the old Soviet news agency, was the Kremlin's comically relentless propaganda wing. Today, the Pravda Web site has better reporting on Gardasil than you'll find in most Western newspapers, with one recent article pointing out all the vaccine's ugly flaws and accusing Merck of ignoring its own research.

I still don't truskie the Russkies on most issues, but it just goes to show how our own pro-Big Pharma media has become a propaganda machine of its own."

http://clicks.douglassreport.com//t/AQ/AALX-g/AALhTw/AAKaGA/AQ/AcO5yw/jMbhWould have been nice if he had included some links to the studies. Now all I see is an anti-pasteurization screed.

[Stringer_Bell]

Do ALL girl need it, or only the ones having sex?

[mrsmaalox]

Do ALL girl need it, or only the ones having sex?

Girls should have it before they become sexually active.

[thispego]

I don't remember either. I just know seeing this thread again reminded me to call for an appt for my daughter's second shot before it's too late and she has to start over :toast

cervical cancer is the least of your worries mrsmaalox

[FuzzyLumpkins]

HPV is no joke.

Compulsion of this nature is abhorrent nonetheless.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Remember when this thread first started?

And every self-admitted republican voting woman on this forum said they were rushing their little girls to the clinic?

I think there's like four pages of Manny ripping into mookie sideways too it's pretty classic stuff.

[thispego]

at least you don't have to worry about testicular cancer pego

Right, it doesn't run in my family. How did you know?

[boutons_deux]

Hey, Maalox and all you people who trust BigPharma blindly, have your 15-minute memories have already expired:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/05/gardasil-vaccine-is-a-flop-for-good-reasons.aspx

[ididnotnothat]

Perry is an idiot.

[mrsmaalox]

Hey, Maalox and all you people who trust BigPharma blindly, have your 15-minute memories have already expired:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/05/gardasil-vaccine-is-a-flop-for-good-reasons.aspx

Sorry, but I don't bother to look at anything that links to anything "mercola" because I already know there will be no cites or links to the "scientific" studies it will reference.

And as far as me trusting BigPharma blindly, I really have to wonder how you can make that claim. I can't see a single post in this thread where I have alluded to/said/implied that I am going to give my daughter this vaccine because BigPharma and the gov't said I should and that they are right to mandate it. I can only guess that "mercola" told you I felt that way, so it must be correct.

In actuality, I held off for 2 years because of my own misgivings. In that time I have spoken to professionals, non professionals, and have actually read for myself many scientific studies pro and con. And I never found any answer that I trusted completely. But what made me follow thru with it ended up to be living across my street. A young, beautiful family whose world has been turned upside down by HPV. A nurse pracitioner with cervical cancer who died at age 32 and her husband, a clinical psychologist with rectal cancer both linked directly to her HPV. And a 2 year old daughter and a 5 year old daughter. I know very well the risks involved with all medical treatments and procedures; and although I also know those risks are not the same for everybody and no one should be forced to take them, we all have to do what we think is the right thing. I made an educated decision and I'm fine with it.

[Jekka]

Hey, Maalox and all you people who trust BigPharma blindly, have your 15-minute memories have already expired:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/05/gardasil-vaccine-is-a-flop-for-good-reasons.aspx

You're seriously citing Mercola like it's some sort of Holy Grail??

[easjer]

Having gone through losing my son to premature birth caused by cervical incompetence (not related to precancerous lesions or HPV), I have to wonder how many other women are affected by HPV-related cervical issues that don't result in cancer.

The effect to fertility can be devastating when cone biopsies or LEEP procedures have to be done to watch precancerous cells or remove them. Cerclages can save pregnancies for a lot of women, but cervical incompetency is usually diagnosed after a second trimester loss. And even in situations where women are monitored closely, the funneling and dilation can develop rapidly.

Preventing that is an indirect side-effect, but no less important.

So seeing the situation develop as it has over the last three years leaves me with mixed feelings about the whole thing.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Classic.

I'm a little disappointed that I didn't get into this thread until its midpoint.

[boutons_deux]

You're seriously citing Mercola like it's some sort of Holy Grail??

So you think Mercola's position is pulled out of his ass?

That it's not based on many negative reports about this shitty vaccine (they're not all shitty), about the history of how frequently fined Merck and other BigPharma drug pushers corrupt their own studies, and corrupt docs to push their crap, and his own knowledge of other approaches to resisting HPV?

[boutons_deux]

FROM: "HSI - Jenny Thompson" <[email protected]>

Dear Reader,

In 2006, when I first told you about Gardasil, the only danger we knew for sure was the danger of wasting your money on an overpriced vaccine that might not even work

Even then, the medical mainstream knew that this human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine offered--at BEST--incomplete protection from cervical cancer.

Within a year, everything changed. Three girls had died after receiving Gardasil shots, and about 1,600 adverse reactions had been reported to the FDA.

People started calling me crazy when I sounded the battle cry and told them "Do not get the Gardasil shot for your daughters. " The Gardasil defenders certainly weren't worried. They chalked those deaths up to coincidence and moved on.

But more "coincidental" deaths and adverse reaction reports continued to mount, year after year.

Today the death toll is 89 and the adverse reaction reports number more than 21,000!

Over the past five years, thousands have been hospitalized and hundreds are disabled with symptoms that include seizures, muscle spasms, paralysis, lupus, pelvic pain, joint pain, extreme weight loss, vision loss, hair loss, enlarged liver, migraines, painful menstruation, and slurred speech.

So, at what point does all this cross the line from "coincidence" to public health crisis?

Clearly we're already there. And I hate to think of how many deaths the FDA will require before they do anything.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Pulling focus
-----------------------------------------------------------

In 2007, I was standing alone on my soapbox when I called out the FDA to take action and protect young women from the Gardasil vaccine.

Today the soapbox is pretty crowded.

In fact, one adverse reaction case in particular may finally push the Gardasil controversy into the mainstream spotlight.

When 18-year-old Donielle Richardson suffered long-range side effects after one injection of Gardasil, her family was stunned to discover how many other young girls had been victimized by this hazardous vaccine.

Donielle's brothers--Ryan and David Richardson--were so disturbed by their sister's experience that they wanted to do something to make people aware of Gardasil's grave risks.

They've now started work on a Gardasil documentary titled "One More Girl"--a twist on Merck's "One Less Girl to get Cervical Cancer" advertising campaign.

When finished, "One More Girl" will explore the unique impact that Gardasil adverse events have on young victims and their families.

For instance, the Richardsons found that many doctors are reluctant to treat post-Gardasil patients. Those docs don't want to buck the system (or anger Merck?) with any sort of acknowledgment that the vaccine might cause serious health issues.

In other words, doctors may actually be helping Merck keep news of Gardasil risks from getting out to the general public.

And that's why a film like "One More Girl" is so urgent--and long overdue.

You can watch a short preview of the film on a website (onemoregirlfilm.com) the Richardson brothers have set up to raise money for production costs.

Meanwhile, there's still room on the soapbox and you can help. Tell your family and friends, because whenever someone finds out about the realities of Gardasil , we're one step closer to where we want to be: Getting this dangerous and unnecessary vaccine taken off the market.




...and another thing

If you're hiding your daughters from the Gardasil marketing machine, don't forget to hide your sons as well.

Two years ago, the FDA approved Gardasil for use in boys and men, ages nine through 26, to help prevent genital warts. Merck also claims that vaccinated boys MIGHT be less likely to pass on HPV to girls.

Of course, Merck's emphasis is still on girls and over-the-top claims about cervical cancer "prevention." But I noticed that the pitch on the Gardasil website has been refashioned as "One Less Person," to include boys.

But will boys be just as vulnerable to Gardasil dangers as girls are?

We now have an answer. And it's not good. More than 300 adverse reports now involve boys. Several have been hospitalized and two have died.

Two.

In a few years, I'm afraid that number will be closer to 89.

To Your Good Health,

Jenny Thompson

[lil'mo]

Man, who would have ever thought? Who??!?

[MiamiHeat]

don't blame or argue with women in this thread, guys.

women, or more specifically...mothers, behave in illogical ways when it comes to their children. motherly instincts kick in and logic goes out the window, if they think it can protect their child, they will do it. so don't blame them.

anyway, 89 deaths, right? out of how many vaccines administered? millions?

[lil'mo]

1 death directly caused by the vaccine is too many

[MiamiHeat]

1 death directly caused by the vaccine is too many

people die of complications all the time.

even by "normal" things like tylenol.

if millions of people are using it and it's fine, and only a few dozen get complications, then the drug is fine.....

i am with you though, that MANDATING this sort of thing should be unconstitutional. this is not a plague that could threaten a population or community.....this should NOT be forced.

let's say you are the parent of one of the unlucky few that happens to have complications with the vaccine. oh well too bad for you? that's fucked up. mandating vaccine's should only be done when the disease is a potential threat to a larger population through transmission, etc....

and by the way, HPV is quite common. almost everyone will be infected with it at one point in their lives, and some don't even know about it.

[lil'mo]

thanks for recapping the thread

[LaMarcus Bryant]

The early pages of this thread are both dumb and fascinating.

You have spurs talk liberals being anti-vaxx, influenced by the Alex Jones conspiracy horse crap, spurstalk older white conservatives being pro-FDA and pro-vaxx
I wonder if the old ST richers are still pro vax and totally believe the FDA :lol

[LaMarcus Bryant]

.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

This thread is waaay too long for me to go through, but I nominally agree with the AAP. If this vaccine has not gone through the full range normal rigorous safety and long-term effects testing, then it's too early for politicians to be making the decision to make it mandatory.

I do find it curious that, in line of his stances on other issues of sexual education, Rick Perry would choose to support this particular initiative.

It's interesting to see the reactions, both pro and con, to the acceptance of not-fully-proven vaccines, as opposed to the 30-some-odd years it took to finally get a proven idea like water fluoridation to come to San Antonio.

This post wins the thread imo fwiw tbh, just keep bumping this comment every 10 years lmao

[SpursforSix]

No way I'll ever agree with a mandatory vaccine for a disease contracted by a person's life choices.
If you want to really help everyone, why not ban alcohol, cigarettes, fast food, and sugar.
You'll save infinitely more lives doing that than by mandating a vaccine for an avoidable and treatable disease.