If the Spurs are struggling, then what about the 27 teams behind them?

[jeffdrums22]

My question is this: Putting aside the "numbers can be deceiving" argument, referring to the fact that S.A. owns the 3rd best record in the NBA but haven't played well, if the Spurs are "struggling", what about the 27 teams that have a worse record than them? Is the whole league struggling to WIN GAMES? (playing well and winning games don't always go together, strange as it is) If all the Spurs "struggles" lead to the 3rd best NBA record (winning games is what it all boils down to, horrible playing or not), if the Spurs turn it on come playoff time, do the "struggles" really matter?

A team can play well in a game but still lose. A team can play horrible and still win. Spurs have had a hard time playing well, but not winning games, compared to the rest of the league. Sounds strange, but that's clearly what's happening having the 3rd most number of wins, ahead of 27 teams. Usually, a team that reaches 50 wins is considered an acceptable season. This year, that number could be 45 or so as the standard, based on the number of wins everyone below the "struggling" Spurs, as well as the Spurs, are at.

Take any NBA team and compare them to the play of the NBA's lone dominant team, Dallas (Phoenix is 1-7 vs SA, Dallas, Utah, and LA. Eastern conference teams have helped their win column. Sorry, Phoenix, looks like fool's gold to me. Their record is deceiving too I guess. It's all Eastern conference victories) Compare any team to Dallas and it will look like they too are "struggling".

So, what's going on with the rest of the 27 teams below the Spurs in wins? Spurs have been the target of criticism all season long. We clearly aren't the only ones. Everyone is struggling to win games just as much as we are, since most of the league is below us in wins.

[ArgSpursFan]

let the other 27 teams worry about them problems.who cares anyways???

[boutons_]

"what about the 27 teams that have a worse record than them?"

Most teams in the NBA stink, their games mostly unwatchable shit.

The Spurs have been, on avg, in different league, one of the top 6 teams in the Duncan/Pop years.

It shows how far the Spurs have fallen since they were the first team to 20W this season that their fans find comfort that the Spurs have a better record the 27 junk teams.

[Tom_Foolery]

My question is this: Putting aside the "numbers can be deceiving" argument, referring to the fact that S.A. owns the 3rd best record in the NBA but haven't played well, if the Spurs are "struggling", what about the 27 teams that have a worse record than them? Is the whole league struggling to WIN GAMES? (playing well and winning games don't always go together, strange as it is) If all the Spurs "struggles" lead to the 3rd best NBA record (winning games is what it all boils down to, horrible playing or not), if the Spurs turn it on come playoff time, do the "struggles" really matter?

A team can play well in a game but still lose. A team can play horrible and still win. Spurs have had a hard time playing well, but not winning games, compared to the rest of the league. Sounds strange, but that's clearly what's happening having the 3rd most number of wins, ahead of 27 teams. Usually, a team that reaches 50 wins is considered an acceptable season. This year, that number could be 45 or so as the standard, based on the number of wins everyone below the "struggling" Spurs, as well as the Spurs, are at.

Take any NBA team and compare them to the play of the NBA's lone dominant team, Dallas (Phoenix is 1-7 vs SA, Dallas, Utah, and LA. Eastern conference teams have helped their win column. Sorry, Phoenix, looks like fool's gold to me. Their record is deceiving too I guess. It's all Eastern conference victories) Compare any team to Dallas and it will look like they too are "struggling".

So, what's going on with the rest of the 27 teams below the Spurs in wins? Spurs have been the target of criticism all season long. We clearly aren't the only ones. Everyone is struggling to win games just as much as we are, since most of the league is below us in wins.


Who cares about the other 27 teams. The only team we are concerned with is one: San Antonio Spurs.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

That's like comparing people in the ghetto and people in the 'burbs.

Give a guy in the ghetto a car and he'll be happy. Give a guy in the 'burbs a car, and he'll want a Mercedez instead. It's all about what you're used to, and what your expectations are. The Spurs have not met there expectations...in there opinion.

[Trainwreck2100]

Half those teams are in the East and thus disqualified

[Marcus Bryant]

Fuck man what matters is what the Spurs are doing with the talent of their big 3. They are squandering it at this point.

[Extra Stout]

My question is this: Putting aside the "numbers can be deceiving" argument, referring to the fact that S.A. owns the 3rd best record in the NBA but haven't played well, if the Spurs are "struggling", what about the 27 teams that have a worse record than them? Is the whole league struggling to WIN GAMES? (playing well and winning games don't always go together, strange as it is) If all the Spurs "struggles" lead to the 3rd best NBA record (winning games is what it all boils down to, horrible playing or not), if the Spurs turn it on come playoff time, do the "struggles" really matter?

A team can play well in a game but still lose. A team can play horrible and still win. Spurs have had a hard time playing well, but not winning games, compared to the rest of the league. Sounds strange, but that's clearly what's happening having the 3rd most number of wins, ahead of 27 teams. Usually, a team that reaches 50 wins is considered an acceptable season. This year, that number could be 45 or so as the standard, based on the number of wins everyone below the "struggling" Spurs, as well as the Spurs, are at.

Take any NBA team and compare them to the play of the NBA's lone dominant team, Dallas (Phoenix is 1-7 vs SA, Dallas, Utah, and LA. Eastern conference teams have helped their win column. Sorry, Phoenix, looks like fool's gold to me. Their record is deceiving too I guess. It's all Eastern conference victories) Compare any team to Dallas and it will look like they too are "struggling".

So, what's going on with the rest of the 27 teams below the Spurs in wins? Spurs have been the target of criticism all season long. We clearly aren't the only ones. Everyone is struggling to win games just as much as we are, since most of the league is below us in wins.
OK, we get it, you're content with losing in the second round. We aren't. Run along now.

[jaffies]

If the Spurs are struggling, then what about the 27 teams behind them?



THERE NOT WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS.

[PM5K]

The problem is that the Spurs aren't beating the teams they'll face in the playoffs, or the best teams in the league.

So how good is it to have a record that's composed of beating the bad teams and loosing to the good ones? Sure your record will look good but once you get into the playoffs you'll loose to those same teams you lost to during the regular season.

[jeffdrums22]

You guys are so pessimistic. Spurs fans have got to be the worst in the world when they're not winning games. I bet you all are the ones who walk out of the arena when there's 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter and we're down by 8 points.

I'm not looking for reasons to pretend to have hope that we're going to win the championship, because at this point in the season (since apparently regular season play is suddenly important again when it comes to the postseason), SA is not winning games at the usual pace they do. I'm just pointing out plain facts (standings), and that if the rest of the league is struggling with us, then we're not as bad off in terms of the ability to win games.

But, I think we're all too spoiled and discontent because we dont have 40 wins by now, and Gregg Popovich should be fired, right

To the poster "boutons", teams in any pro sport are judged by how well they play compared to the rest of the league. It's not rocket science.

Each one of you needs to find a new team to watch since we don't have 40 wins. I hear the Mavericks are pretty good.

Now go ahead and make up some other way to tell me how much we're struggling and how we'll be eliminated in the first round. It must be that loss to the Bobcats that killed our season, darn.

[Mr. Body]

Eh. I'm not happy giving Tim Duncan the Kevin Garnett treatment. Our front office, post-Ginobili/Parker, has turned into Kevin McHale.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

You don't have to look to hard to find the answer.

But yea, I guess I'ts just a damn too obvious-to-believe indication of how shitty the state of the NBA is right now.

Its been going on for a while now. I hate it when announcers/ media pretend like it's at its peekby trying to set up rivalries, popuarize exaggerated individual talent, and constantly downplay, and even ignore TEAM concepts, match-ups etc.

I kept thinking (3-4 years ago) that the state of the NBA could only go up. I sure missed the target on that one...

[kalikot_boy_kr]

good thing........

[boutons_]

To the poster boy for stupidity "jeffdrums22", compare anything to shit, it smells pretty good.

[jeffdrums22]

So that must be why we all look good compared to you.

[Mavschick]

Spurs record against DAL: 1-2
HOU: 1-2
UT: 1-2
LAL: 1-2
PHO: 1-1

Sorry, but it's not like SA is getting dominated by these teams. I'd take SA in a 7-game series against almost any of them with the exception being my Mavs of course :spin.

[Extra Stout]

You guys are so pessimistic. Spurs fans have got to be the worst in the world when they're not winning games. I bet you all are the ones who walk out of the arena when there's 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter and we're down by 8 points.

I'm not looking for reasons to pretend to have hope that we're going to win the championship, because at this point in the season (since apparently regular season play is suddenly important again when it comes to the postseason), SA is not winning games at the usual pace they do. I'm just pointing out plain facts (standings), and that if the rest of the league is struggling with us, then we're not as bad off in terms of the ability to win games.

But, I think we're all too spoiled and discontent because we dont have 40 wins by now, and Gregg Popovich should be fired, right

To the poster "boutons", teams in any pro sport are judged by how well they play compared to the rest of the league. It's not rocket science.

Each one of you needs to find a new team to watch since we don't have 40 wins. I hear the Mavericks are pretty good.

Now go ahead and make up some other way to tell me how much we're struggling and how we'll be eliminated in the first round. It must be that loss to the Bobcats that killed our season, darn.
It's funny when simple-minded asshats like you come in and tell us how stupid we all are, when your pitiful little brain cannot even comprehend what we are talking about. Just shut up and wave your foam finger, and drink your beer.

Individual wins and losses mean little to nothing. There are any number of reasons that this team could be 32-16 and yet there be no cause for alarm. It could be because they were underachieving despite obviously superior talent. It could be because new players were becoming acclimated to the team and its schemes. It could be because of youngsters in the rotation who are playing a little wild and undisciplined. It could be because of chronic injuries. Those sorts of things have been causes for slumps in the past, yet people were not so worried about it.

When this team was 63-19 last year, even with the gaudy record, there was cause for concern, because of systemic structural problems emerging on the roster: age, lack of athleticism, poor interior play, overdependence on perimeter shooting, lousy rebounding, lack of a backup point guard. And whaddya know, those are exactly the things that bit them in the ass against Dallas.

And now, they are an order of magnitude worse. If the Spurs are going to win, they have to do so as an aging, unathletic team with a terrible frontcourt around Duncan, dependent upon old perimeter shooters hitting shots, that gets pounded on the glass, and which stops scoring whenever Parker rests. Those things are not going to change because that is the roster they have. Regardless of what their record is, they have enormous gaping holes in their lineup, and in their scheme, that elite teams can drive a truck through in the playoffs. They have no margin for error, and the Big 3 all have to play perfect to win against the best teams.

So, you decide to come in here and berate everyone because 27 teams in the league have a worse record. Pardon me, but who gives a shit? The Big 3 by themselves all but guarantee 50 wins. There are dozens of people here with far more hoops knowledge than me who make competent analysis of the flaws on this team. Your depth of understanding consists of looking at the standings. And armed with only your ability to do kindergarten-level counting, you proceed to berate everyone else? Your ignorance is exceeded only by your arrogance.

I spent my childhood watching Spurs teams that consistently had some of the best regular-season records because of David Robinson, yet who always got dismantled in the playoffs because opponents easily exploited the enormous deficiencies of his supporting cast. Pardon me for not being thrilled at the upcoming reprisal of those seasons, especially given how vastly superior the nucleus and financial resources of the team are now compared to what they were 15 years ago.

[nkdlunch]

it's called being elite. we are not anymore, this is why we get critisized

[bull62400]

My question is this: Putting aside the "numbers can be deceiving" argument, referring to the fact that S.A. owns the 3rd best record in the NBA but haven't played well, if the Spurs are "struggling", what about the 27 teams that have a worse record than them? Is the whole league struggling to WIN GAMES? (playing well and winning games don't always go together, strange as it is) If all the Spurs "struggles" lead to the 3rd best NBA record (winning games is what it all boils down to, horrible playing or not), if the Spurs turn it on come playoff time, do the "struggles" really matter?

A team can play well in a game but still lose. A team can play horrible and still win. Spurs have had a hard time playing well, but not winning games, compared to the rest of the league. Sounds strange, but that's clearly what's happening having the 3rd most number of wins, ahead of 27 teams. Usually, a team that reaches 50 wins is considered an acceptable season. This year, that number could be 45 or so as the standard, based on the number of wins everyone below the "struggling" Spurs, as well as the Spurs, are at.

Take any NBA team and compare them to the play of the NBA's lone dominant team, Dallas (Phoenix is 1-7 vs SA, Dallas, Utah, and LA. Eastern conference teams have helped their win column. Sorry, Phoenix, looks like fool's gold to me. Their record is deceiving too I guess. It's all Eastern conference victories) Compare any team to Dallas and it will look like they too are "struggling".

So, what's going on with the rest of the 27 teams below the Spurs in wins? Spurs have been the target of criticism all season long. We clearly aren't the only ones. Everyone is struggling to win games just as much as we are, since most of the league is below us in wins.
very true, im not saying that the championship is in the bag. but we are pretty well off considering we arent playing to our full potential. do i see an end in the duncan era? of course i do! i see it plain and dry as much as any fan on this forum. but if we want to get butt hurt because we're 3rd in the league and not 1st then you need to wake up! the spurs are getting old and this is something we have to accept, by the way, considering we have a bunch od old fogeys on our team, we're doing pretty damn good. :) Go Spurs Go!

[carina_gino20]

when you're the Spurs, you don't care about the other 27. how they play doesn't mean a thing. what you care about is being on top, or at your highest level, higher than your biggest rival. and unlike before, we are actually looking up at our rivals, who are obviously way way better than us.

it doesn't matter if you're a "winner" among the losers if you're also the "loser" among the winners.

[TheNextGen]

Right now...spurs arnt living up to expectations. We are losing to top teams. Lakers imo should be up there with the top 4. Why? Although thier 6th best in the league, they're wins over playoff teams can't be over looked. Hopefully we will get things under control by April.

[samikeyp]

There is nothing wrong with not being satisfied with your teams performance when you know it could be better. I am as loyal a Spurs fan as they come and win or lose I will support them but I am not going to run around yelling "We're #1!" when obviously the Spurs are not #1. If the Spurs play well, I am going to acknowledge it, when they play like shit, I will acknowledge that too. Nothing wrong with discussing your teams flaws...doing that doesn't make you less of a fan.

[jeffdrums22]

As Coach Pop said concerning the Mavericks: "All we need to do is figure out how to score one more point, how much more athletic is that?".

In case you didn't know, statistics DO matter. I don't care what leads to them, they are what they are. For example, we are second in the league in fewest points allowed. Despite our flaws, we are still holding teams to 88-90 points a game (which is what we are doing), that is all that matters. I don't care if we miss open shots vs the Bobcats or the Hawks.

But no, most people here look at last year's semifinals, and 16 losses as an indicator of the rest of this season's happenings. You can't simply wrap up an entire season after 40 games. THAT'S being simpleminded. Even Phil Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy have stated they don't know what all this ramble is about the Spurs struggling and being old and unathletic. Get your heads out of last year's semifinals, that series has long been over. Stop obsessing over 2 point losses to Dallas and using that to bring the Spurs down.

From an analytical standpoint and breaking down every game, sure we look like we suck, because Finley and Horry (can anyone tell me anyone else on the team who is really old besides those two?) are too slow, or Parker isn't a good defender, or too many teams drive to the hoop on us. But in reality, we're still one of the best and we STILL force teams to shoot jump shots (Old and slow Miami forced a certain team to take jump shots), which is what most of our games have been lost by, wild shots at the buzzer, and poor defense but not to the extent that some people say. If this were a 2 league team, then we suck ass. If you want to look further into it, go ahead. Waste time.

Too many of you choose to believe the same stuff said by the same announcers week in and week out. Especially "Extra Stout". I don't claim to be a basketball expert, because I don't spend my whole day watching ESPN. But it doesn't take a basketball expert to recognize over-analyzing a few 2-point losses.

Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong and simpleminded.

[FromWayDowntown]

Barry and Bowen are both older than Finley.

And the Spurs are 2-3 in games decided by 5 points or less. Even if they won all of those games, they'd still have 13 losses.

In any event of their 16 losses, 13 have come against teams at or above .500, including 2 to the Mavericks, 1 to the Suns, 2 to the Jazz, 2 to the Lakers, and 2 to the Rockets.

I wouldn't say that the standings particularly bear you out in arguing that Spurs fans shouldn't be fretting about losses to bad teams. More than half of the Spurs losses are to teams that are likely to be in the top 6 seeds in the West, which means that more than half of the Spurs losses are to teams that they'll have to beat to win a championship.

Simpleminded, indeed.

[MrChug]

it's called being elite. we are not anymore, this is why we get critisized

Add to that the lack of respect we received when we WERE the dominant force in the league and you've got an award winning recipe for bitterness. :pctoss

[itzsoweezee]

Spurs record against DAL: 1-2
HOU: 1-2
UT: 1-2
LAL: 1-2
PHO: 1-1

Sorry, but it's not like SA is getting dominated by these teams. I'd take SA in a 7-game series against almost any of them with the exception being my Mavs of course :spin.

most of those wins came early in the season. lately, the spurs have been DOMINATED by those teams. the spurs are progressively getting worse as the season goes along while other teams are getting better.

[FromWayDowntown]

The Spurs haven't beaten Phoenix, Dallas, or Houston since November 18.

[jeffdrums22]

The team winning the championship in any given year never gets the actual respect the following season. It's the previous season's 2nd best team, who makes a killer regular season run, that everyone fears. But that team usually doesn't prevail.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs haven't beaten Phoenix, Dallas, or Houston since November 18.

Sweet.

[FromWayDowntown]

The team winning the championship in any given year never gets the actual respect the following season. It's the previous season's 2nd best team, who makes a killer regular season run, that everyone fears. But that team usually doesn't prevail.

Sure. That was always true of the early 2000's Lakers. Those guys never got any respect in the seasons following their championships.

Actually, it's usually champions who aren't particularly competitive in the playoff race in their weak confernence in the following season who don't get "actual respect," whatever that is.

[FromWayDowntown]

Sweet.

But for a crazy 4th quarter rally, that tidbit would read: the Spurs haven't beaten Houston and haven't beaten Dallas or Phoenix since November 8.