"The Suns are the Colts of the NBA".... Ruh Ro

[BillsCarnage]

So many have said that this year and previous years.. Time will tell.

[Chris Childs]

So many have said that this year and previous years.. Time will tell.

I thought it was Dallas?

[Trainwreck2100]

What would that make the Mavs?

[Chris Childs]

What would that make the Mavs?
Exactly :rolleyes

[Chris Childs]

Trainwreck, that sig is too real. It feel like I can actually touch it. LOL

[Extra Stout]

Unless Jason Terry starts playing like the Rex Grossman of the NBA, I don't think the analogy holds.

[Trainwreck2100]

Unless Jason Terry starts playing like the Rex Grossman of the NBA, I don't think the analogy holds.


How did the bears come into play?

[AMAREownsALL]

So many have said that this year and previous years.. Time will tell.

Who is this 'So Many'?

[mavsfan1000]

Football is more of a luck game. 1 game decides it instead of a 7 game series. Football to basketball comparisons aren't accurate.

[Trainwreck2100]

Football is more of a luck game. 1 game decides it instead of a 7 game series. Football to basketball comparisons aren't accurate.


No shit, but expwct ESPN's talking heads to make the comparison with both the Suns and the Mavs this year. What with their high offense and choketastic superstars.

[Extra Stout]

How did the bears come into play?
The Suns are perceived as the "Colts of the NBA" -- i.e., they win with hugh-powered offense as opposed to defense.

Mr. Suns fan, seeing that the Colts just won the Super Bowl, sees that as a good sign for his team.

However, the Colts did not win the Super Bowl by playing great offense with bad defense. In the playoffs, their defense stepped up, and carried the team to two playoff wins while the offense sputtered.

And in the Super Bowl, while the Colts offense played fairly well, it did not put the Bears away. The game was not put away until Rex Grossman threw an interception that was returned for a TD by the defense to make it 29-17. If the Bears' passing game had been any real threat to the Colts, at 22-17 in the fourth quarter despite Indy's statistical dominance, the outcome would not have been sure.

So the analogy Mr. Suns fan is trying to make does not hold. The lesson that would have to be drawn is that the Colts could not go all the way until their defense stepped up to get them through rough patches on offense. It was surprising that it happened in the playoffs after their defense was so porous all season, but it happened.

So, Suns fans, following the analogy faithfully, one could say 1) the Suns will have to D up at some point in the postseason in order to go all the way, and 2) even if it isn't really their MO during the season, somebody might step up in the playoffs and make the difference on D that they need.

But, and it should be noted, I don't see any starters on the Mavs who are as obvious a weakness for the defense to exploit as Grossman was on the Bears.

[dirk4mvp]

damn, Grossman sucks

[StylisticS]

Hell people said that of the Mavs a few years ago. :lol

[MrChug]

This comparison has always been between the Colts and the Mavs however BC. The sad fact for the Suns is that they haven't even gone far enough in the playoffs to be compared to the Colts.

[RonMexico]

This comparison has always been between the Colts and the Mavs however BC. The sad fact for the Suns is that they haven't even gone far enough in the playoffs to be compared to the Colts.

What? This was the Colts' first Super Bowl berth in the Peyton Manning era. Before 2007, he and Nash had gotten their teams to the same place: conference championship game/conference finals.

[MrChug]

What? This was the Colts' first Super Bowl berth in the Peyton Manning era. Before 2007, he and Nash had gotten their teams to the same place: conference championship game/conference finals.

True, but the Mavs comparisons to the Colts were as uncanny as the Spurs perennial comparisons to the Patriots. The Suns were nowhere in the equation. No luv.

[sickdsm]

Colts in years past blew teams out w/ high powered offense. This year, especially in the regular season they won low scoring close games.


Colts are a completly different team this year than years past.


I think this years mavs are more of a comparison to this years colts than anything.

[stretch]

it has always been a comparison of the Mavs and Colts. both teams were always labled as chokers (because they did), and never would get respect until they won/win a title.

the colts for a while, were always an offensive juggernaut that got bounced early in the playoffs, just like the Mavs were. then the year that they finally broke through and made it to the conference championship/conference finals, they both lost to a team that they were capable of beating (Patriots/Spurs), but were not mentally tough enough to beat, and didnt have a strong enough defense to pick up for the offensive slack. then, last year, both teams seemed to be among the league's favorites to win a championship after having an incredible season, and both choked their chances away in the playoffs. now this year, both teams have been playing with a determination to do nothing but win a championship. the Colts finally got the defense and mental toughness to win one, and they did. so far, it looks like the Mavs are doing the same thing, and look much more determined and tough than in years past. they also have an elite defense. of course, time will tell, but the Mavs are definitely more like the Colts than the Suns.

[Big Shot Rob]

What about this...

The Suns compared to the Colts

Is like Olive Oil compared to Anna Nicole Smith

(I'm strong to the finich...cause I eats me spinach...Popeye the Sailor Man...)

[RonMexico]

it has always been a comparison of the Mavs and Colts. both teams were always labled as chokers (because they did), and never would get respect until they won/win a title.

the colts for a while, were always an offensive juggernaut that got bounced early in the playoffs, just like the Mavs were. then the year that they finally broke through and made it to the conference championship/conference finals, they both lost to a team that they were capable of beating (Patriots/Spurs), but were not mentally tough enough to beat, and didnt have a strong enough defense to pick up for the offensive slack. then, last year, both teams seemed to be among the league's favorites to win a championship after having an incredible season, and both choked their chances away in the playoffs. now this year, both teams have been playing with a determination to do nothing but win a championship. the Colts finally got the defense and mental toughness to win one, and they did. so far, it looks like the Mavs are doing the same thing, and look much more determined and tough than in years past. they also have an elite defense. of course, time will tell, but the Mavs are definitely more like the Colts than the Suns.

Oh, stretch... how soon we forget... below is your quote from 1-16-2007 at 3:58 p.m. in page 5 of the "Nash: 3-time MVP???" thread:


hmm... we also saw the Suns get their asses handed to them by the Spurs in 2005 in 5 games, and by the Mavs in 2006 in 6 games. it appears that Nash, Amare, and Co. hasnt even made it to the finals. perhaps the Suns are now going to be like the Colts of the NFL. great team, tons of offense, mediocre defense, despite stats that make it look better than it is, that wins lots of games in the season. however, teams with strong, well executed defenses will always beat them in the playoffs, no matter what.

you have no right to talk trash, you worthless piece of shit.

My response to that argument (from original thread):

You have no right to talk trash either - your franchise has made the Finals once in their history.

Perhaps the Suns will be like the Colts and start playing defense this playoff season... whoops, the Suns already have started in the regular season.

Your next response:

hmm... and the Colts played what was statisically among the BEST defenses in the NFL last season. and what happened? they got their asses handed to them in their 1st playoff game.

If I had time, I would find that quote where you said I put words in your mouth and if you ever contradicted yourself, then "[I] better fucking quote [you]." Well, I hope this satisfies your need for quotations and more shining examples of where you say two different things no more than 3 weeks apart.

I'll admit that you're making comparisons based on what the Mavs are doing this year that (you think) will bring them a title. However, you aren't admitting that the Suns are doing those exact same things (being mentally tougher and trying to win with defense and consistent effort). If the stats adjusted for possessions didn't indicate the overwhelming fact that the Mavs give up more points per 100 possessions than the Suns do, then your analysis would ring true.

However, the Suns seem to be playing just as good if not better defense than the Mavs, but just playing at a much faster pace. How you can ignore that the Suns have gotten to two conference finals and lost to the "Patriots" (Mavs/Spurs) and are playing incredible basketball this year is a little beyond me. Neither team has "more" attributes of the Colts because the NBA playoffs haven't started! The Colts didn't vindicate themselves until yesterday; the Suns/Mavs still have months to go. Now, if by Mavs "play tougher defense" you meant "Mavs rebound better" then you would be correct, sir.

Here's the link if you need further validation: http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55667&page=5&pp=26&highlight=Suns+Colts

[Nashfan]

you people in Feenicks can suck my dick.


You need to learn how to spell. :lol

[SexRex]

Colts ain't shit. aite?

[stretch]

Oh, stretch... how soon we forget... below is your quote from 1-16-2007 at 3:58 p.m. in page 5 of the "Nash: 3-time MVP???" thread:



My response to that argument (from original thread):


Your next response:


If I had time, I would find that quote where you said I put words in your mouth and if you ever contradicted yourself, then "[I] better fucking quote [you]." Well, I hope this satisfies your need for quotations and more shining examples of where you say two different things no more than 3 weeks apart.

I'll admit that you're making comparisons based on what the Mavs are doing this year that (you think) will bring them a title. However, you aren't admitting that the Suns are doing those exact same things (being mentally tougher and trying to win with defense and consistent effort). If the stats adjusted for possessions didn't indicate the overwhelming fact that the Mavs give up more points per 100 possessions than the Suns do, then your analysis would ring true.

However, the Suns seem to be playing just as good if not better defense than the Mavs, but just playing at a much faster pace. How you can ignore that the Suns have gotten to two conference finals and lost to the "Patriots" (Mavs/Spurs) and are playing incredible basketball this year is a little beyond me. Neither team has "more" attributes of the Colts because the NBA playoffs haven't started! The Colts didn't vindicate themselves until yesterday; the Suns/Mavs still have months to go. Now, if by Mavs "play tougher defense" you meant "Mavs rebound better" then you would be correct, sir.

Here's the link if you need further validation: http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55667&page=5&pp=26&highlight=Suns+Colts
well, apparently i was wrong about the Colts. however, that thread was about the Suns, and the Suns still havent won a damn thing, have they?

as you said, the playoffs havent even started yet. much like i had said in my post comparing the Mavs and Colts. so what exactly is your argument? my post was simply saying that in recent history, the Mavs have had very similar teams and outcomes that the colts have had over the past several years. and yes, the Suns are like the Colts used to be as well. a great offensive team, with poor defense, although stats hype it up to be better than it actually is, especially when they need their defense the most. so im not sure what your point is. i dont see what the crime is in saying that two NBA teams are similar to a team in the NFL, in terms of how they have tried (Mavs), or are trying (Suns) to win games with offense and not defense. history has shown that it never works, and while things could obviously change, im still not putting my money on a team like the Suns, over teams like the Mavs and Spurs.

oh, and congratulations. you actually finally did quote me correctly. too bad it had no valid point or arguement, other than the fact that you try too hard to argue about pointless things. yea, i was wrong about the colts. so what? at the same time, lets not kid ourselves here. football playoffs are a different game than basketball playoffs. flukes are MUCH more likely to happen in football than basketball. not saying that the colts are a fluke, but come on now... everyone knows that the Chargers and Ravens were both better teams than the Colts were. if the NFL had 7 game playoff series, there is no way in hell the Colts get to the SB.

and im not going to argue about comparing the Mavs and Suns defense. if you wanna be that ignorant, and say that the Suns play better defense than the Mavs, then go right ahead. im not going to stop you. ill just let my team do the talking in the playoffs.

[RonMexico]

ill just let my team do the talking in the playoffs.

That's about the only thing they're gonna do. That, and maybe calling all-star caliber timeouts at the most inopportune of times.

Funny how you claim football and basketball are two different beasts when your back is against the wall - you had no problem gushing over how your Mavs are now the "new" Colts of the NBA. (Similar to how you had no problem ripping on the Suns when you called them the "old" Colts of the NBA.)

I'm pretty much excited to see what you think your heartless, quasi-selfish team can do in the playoffs. I'm hoping the Suns ride health, hustle, and chemistry into the playoffs because that's what champions do. Magic Johnson has won more titles than you, Dirk, or the Mavs organization and although I think he can't speak English worth a shit, he has admitted that the Suns play "just as good" a defense as his Showtime Lakers did. However, those Lakers did have more depth at each position than the Suns and when they would blow teams out, the reserves would put the clamps on so the starters could get some rest.

Now, if you want to attack the Suns' short bench and the amount of minutes logged by the starters, then go ahead - I'll agree with you. But don't try to sell their defense short because all you do is go to Yahoo! Sports and look at "PPG Offense" and "PPG Defense." Please, show a little bit more basketball knowledge than that.

By the way, my point was that you flip-flop your arguments consistently and never think you're wrong even when you've contradictred yourself. I feel I proved that one by quoting you extensively in that post, and you provided me more support by coming up with this football vs. basketball, Old Mavs vs. Current Suns roundabout attempt at an argument. Don't try to parade this double-standard where you're able to bitch everyone out and then expect absolution by coming on here and saying, "well, I guess I was wrong..."

[mavs>spurs2]

Sun fans think their team plays great defense all the sudden just because they're athletic and get a few steals and blocks.

[mikejones99]

PEyton maning grabbed some bitches ass in college and she tried to sue and they will never win again. PHX is kinda due if they stay healthy and stern will not allow dallas to win it ever. Spurs are still the favorites though.

[RonMexico]

Sun fans think their team plays great defense all the sudden just because they're athletic and get a few steals and blocks.

Once again - we know defense is more than just steals and blocks. You probably think it's giving up more pace-adjusted points than the Suns, though, that make the Mavs so good.

[J.T.]

it has always been a comparison of the Mavs and Colts. both teams were always labled as chokers (because they did), and never would get respect until they won/win a title.

I know the Mavs will not win my respect, or plenty of other Spurs fans respect, even if they win a title. They will still be the Mavs, and we will still have more rings than them. Win 4 and then we can start talking about who needs to be repsected.

[mikejones99]

Peyton Manning will go to jail for raping some bitch after getting drunk at an indiana whore house.

[J.T.]

Peyton Manning will go to jail for raping some bitch after getting drunk at an indiana whore house.

What is it with you and the Manning hate? Go beat off or write something on your blog for christ's sake.

[LittleGeneral]

I know the Mavs will not win my respect, or plenty of other Spurs fans respect, even if they win a title. They will still be the Mavs, and we will still have more rings than them. Win 4 and then we can start talking about who needs to be repsected.


Ridiculous. Just ridiculous.

[RonMexico]

I still don't know how stretch finds his comments consistent. One minute: "the Suns are the Colts of the NBA." Next minute: "It's always been a comparison of the Mavs/Colts."

I like how they can call the Suns "chokers" but act like their team is destined to win a title just because they've made one Finals appearence.

[stretch]

That's about the only thing they're gonna do. That, and maybe calling all-star caliber timeouts at the most inopportune of times.

Funny how you claim football and basketball are two different beasts when your back is against the wall - you had no problem gushing over how your Mavs are now the "new" Colts of the NBA. (Similar to how you had no problem ripping on the Suns when you called them the "old" Colts of the NBA.)

I'm pretty much excited to see what you think your heartless, quasi-selfish team can do in the playoffs. I'm hoping the Suns ride health, hustle, and chemistry into the playoffs because that's what champions do. Magic Johnson has won more titles than you, Dirk, or the Mavs organization and although I think he can't speak English worth a shit, he has admitted that the Suns play "just as good" a defense as his Showtime Lakers did. However, those Lakers did have more depth at each position than the Suns and when they would blow teams out, the reserves would put the clamps on so the starters could get some rest.

Now, if you want to attack the Suns' short bench and the amount of minutes logged by the starters, then go ahead - I'll agree with you. But don't try to sell their defense short because all you do is go to Yahoo! Sports and look at "PPG Offense" and "PPG Defense." Please, show a little bit more basketball knowledge than that.

By the way, my point was that you flip-flop your arguments consistently and never think you're wrong even when you've contradictred yourself. I feel I proved that one by quoting you extensively in that post, and you provided me more support by coming up with this football vs. basketball, Old Mavs vs. Current Suns roundabout attempt at an argument. Don't try to parade this double-standard where you're able to bitch everyone out and then expect absolution by coming on here and saying, "well, I guess I was wrong..."
yes, and how have the Suns finished in recent years? not even making the finals? oh ok. oh yea, i forgot, its because they have a complete choker in Marion, and a group of shits that cant play defense or rebound for crap.

anyways, to the point, i never said the Mavs are the "new" Colts of the NBA. i said that there has always been a comparison. and there has been. over several years, the Colts have tried to win without defense, much like the Mavs had for several years, and it never worked, no matter how much talent they had. and they both choked. and i said the Suns are similar to the Colts too, in the fact that they are trying to win without defense, and it hasnt worked for them. but at the same time, yes, both are completely different sports. i dont see much similarity between the two at all, other than the fact that you have to play good defense to win championships. i dont see why you are arguing the fact that they are different sports. i dont see footballs being dribbled, or basketball players being tackled, so im pretty sure they are quite different.

and dont even think about comparing the showtime lakers to the Suns. there is no comparison. none whatsoever. maybe they play comparable defense to those Lakers, but those Lakers also had Kareem inside, to help keep teams out of the paint. no one is even remotely afraid of Amare's or Diaw's defensive abilities. that is a HUGE difference. and back in a time when offenses around the league were far better, and defense was not played nearly as much as it is today, that comparison isnt very fitting. but even though defense wasnt preached as much back then, the teams that played the most solid defense were the teams that typically won championships. the Lakers and Celtics could always make the big defensive stops when they needed to, even against the biggest offensive juggernauts. you cant say the same about the Suns, especially in a time when 85% of the league's offenses are absolute garbage. oh, and i still dont see why you keep talking about the Mavs having no titles, when the Suns have no damn titles either. thats a wash, so kindly shut the hell up and find another argument. better yet, just stop. you are simply wasting both your time in making yourself look like a retard, and my time in pointing out how retarded you really are. i really am getting tired by your absolute and utter ignorance. thus, i am not going to respond to any more posts on this thread.

have a nice day.

[RonMexico]

Well, stop saying that the Suns are the Colts of the NBA, and then turning around and saying the comparison has always been the Mavs. If you didn't say it, then I wouldn't quote it.

Magic made the Showtime comparison, not me. Yes, everyone knows about Kareem. I also think about 75% of the teams in the league would disagree with you regarding their offensive prowess.

I never said Marion wasn't a choker, but I also said Terry and Howard weren't clutch either.

My main argument is that the Mavs haven't proven anything this season to indicate they won't choke again in the playoffs, while the Suns have indicated consistent success and will provide more of a challenge, if healthy, this time around. You and your fanboy friends are quick to point out when the Suns have faced teams who miss key players and that's why their win streaks were "garbage." Well, when you have to face teams missing Dirk, Terry, and Howard in the WCF, then you can come crying to me. But to ignore that Kurt Thomas and Amare are both good rebounders and weren't part of last years' squad is more ignorant than anything I could have said. Oh yeah, Raja Bell and Joe Johnson were out in consecutive years: try getting past the Spurs in the 2nd round without Devin Harris creating matchup problems and then get back to me.

Blatant homerism at its best. As your arguments become weaker, your insults and comments regarding "ignorance" become more frequent. You must be an only child.