Would you trade Tony AND Manu?

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

For ping pong balls?

And a great chance at landing a top 2 pick?

Now, I don't even know how possible a trade like this would be. But if it was possible, I'd make it easily.

[Amare_32]

How about Jalen Rose for Manu? I am sure Manu will be a big hit in Phoenix. :lol

[Pistons < Spurs]

No way. TP and Manu are proven commodities. The draft is always shaky. You never really know who you're gonna get.

[timvp]

Parker and Manu for Durant? No way, considering that when Durant is ready to be a championship sidekick, Duncan will be retiring.

Now Parker and Manu for Oden you'd have to do. Oden makes you a championship contender the next 15 years.

[E20]

For ping pong balls?

And a great chance at landing a top 2 pick?

Now, I don't even know how possible a trade like this would be. But if it was possible, I'd make it easily.
I don't know, but I think Oden might stay another year in college and all that is left in the draft that would make up for those two is Kevin Durant, though a balla, he is unproven in the NBA.

Back to the trade scenario:

I wouldn't do it because, Tony right now is the player giving the starting message of aggressiveness and toughness in the begining of games, he's building our score up and giving Tim some support and a cushion so he can play his game. Tony is instant offense in spurts, getting 6-10 points a spurt and can really help us dig ourselves out of a hole.

Manu is the X-Factor, he can gives us the that extra boost and intangible that other players can't give, he's not afraid to take the shot, make the pass do whatever to win the game. He'll do whatever with the utmost confidence. He's crucial in the playoffs, he'll sparkcomebacks and finish grind it out games.

So, no.

[ducks]

oden is not coming out this year
tp and manu make you championship contenders with duncan

[timvp]

A front court of Oden, Duncan and Bowen would shatter every defensive record on the books. Durant is going to be good too, but defensive doesn't translate as easy as offense does. Durant would be championship caliber sometime around 2012 -- when Duncan is 37.

[ducks]

spurs need to offer scola and a pick for jeff foster
he was third in the nba last year with rebounding

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

oden is not coming out this year
tp and manu make you championship contenders with duncan

No way Oden stays

[Don Quixote]

Oh please. Like we'd ever think about trading our starting backcourt. Only desperate teams make blockbuster deals like that. And the Spurs are not desperate. Sucky right now, yes, but not desperate.

Trading them would be stupid, like ...
(1) dumping an incredibly hot girl who would do whetever you say, because you don't know where the relationship is going

(2) swimming with dolphins, except they're really sharkies

(3) not signing up for Vonage.

[ducks]

A front court of Oden, Duncan and Bowen would shatter every defensive record on the books.

spurs can not get their weakness fixed with rebounding
if they had no point guard what makes you think they could get one?

beno would shatter the record on the bookswith the most turnovers and ill advised shots with no manu or tp

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

btw.. this thread is not meant to sound like a "cliff jumping" thread, but more to show how special I think Oden and Durant are going to be

[Amare_32]

oden is not coming out this year
tp and manu make you championship contenders with duncan

Right! Oden will pass on being the # 1 pick for the love of learning. :lol

[Pistons < Spurs]

No way Oden stays


I think he's staying school aswell. We'll see what happens I guess

[ducks]

No way Oden stays
did you think duncan would stay in school 4 years

[ducks]

Right! Oden will pass on being the # 1 pick for the love of learning. :lol
he will be number one in the next 3 years when he decides to go pro

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

did you think duncan would stay in school 4 years

Yes.. Duncan didnt peak until his senior year

[Marcus Bryant]

No.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

did you think duncan would stay in school 4 years

BTW... how much $$ did that decision end up costing Tim?

[Axl Van Dam]

For ping pong balls?

And a great chance at landing a top 2 pick?

Now, I don't even know how possible a trade like this would be. But if it was possible, I'd make it easily.

:nope For Ping-Pong balls/Draft Picks no. But for Billups and Hamilton I will. :hungry:

[Amare_32]

he will be number one in the next 3 years when he decides to go pro


Don't assume that. You never know what a team might need in a draft. Did you ever think the Pistons would pass on Carmelo or Wade for Darko? Plus you don't know how Oden will perform if he stays in college. I think he strikes while the iron is hot.

[Kori Ellis]

Yes.. Duncan didnt peak until his senior year

He was damn good in his junior year and averaged like 20 and 12. He would have been the #1 pick (and made a ton more money in his NBA career) if he came out early.

[Kori Ellis]

BTW... how much $$ did that decision end up costing Tim?

More than $100M I think.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

He was damn good in his junior year and averaged like 20 and 12. He would have been the #1 pick (and made a ton more money in his NBA career) if he came out early.

True.. but he was one player who obviously NEEDED to stay in school to develop

[timvp]

Duncan would have been the number 1 pick after his sophomore year. If he came out after his freshman year, he would have been top seven.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

More than $100M I think.

Yup... he would of gotten a Garnett like contract, but he was 1 or 2 years late

[Kori Ellis]

Yup... he would of gotten a Garnett like contract, but he was 1 or 2 years late

Through last season, Duncan had made $85M in his NBA career and Garnett $165M. Over the course of the rest of their contracts, that spread will get even bigger.

Staying in school pays off :lol

[Don Quixote]

This has the makings of a good conversation.

The question boils down to, would Tim have gone #1 in the 96 Draft, the year Kobe came out of high school? What about 95, when Garnett came out? I don't think the 94 Draft, when Tim was a freshman, would be relevant because noone that young came out that year.

If someone has a list of the draft picks for those years, it would be interesting to see how it would have gone.

Would Tim have supplanted Iverson in 96 as #1? Joe Smith went #1 the year before, if I am not mistaken.

[ducks]

Through last season, Duncan had made $85M in his NBA career and Garnett $165M. Over the course of the rest of their contracts, that spread will get even bigger.

Staying in school pays off :lol

it helped kg because they did not have the same max contract rules


buy the way have you tried to spend 85 million ?

[Kori Ellis]

it helped kg because they did not have the same max contract rules


buy the way have you tried to spend 85 million ?

It's not a matter of spending it on yourself. It's about putting it to good use through charity work, leaving more money for children and grandchildren, etc.

[ducks]

no one now can get a kg like contract

[timvp]

it helped kg because they did not have the same max contract rules


buy the way have you tried to spend 85 million ?

How much bird seed could a duck buy with 85 million?

[ducks]

enough to keep the duck swimming !

[timvp]

enough to keep the duck swimming !

You can get bulk bird seed at $6 for 50 pounds. So you could buy over 350,000 tons of bird seed with Duncan's contract.

:hungry:

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

You can get bulk bird seed at $6 for 50 pounds. So you could buy over 350,000 tons of bird seed with Duncan's contract.

:hungry:

If my calculations are right thats enough to feed.... alot of birds

[Solid D]

If birdseed when ducks go, so does CIA.

[exstatic]

If you trade Tony and Manu, you're right back to 2001. We had a year4 Duncan, and a much less broken DRob, and got our asses handed to us because all we had were standstill jumpshooters, and no one that could create or penetrate.

[dg7md]

Duncan stayed because he told his mom he would get a degree if I remember correctly.

[wildbill2u]

Trading TWO All-star calibre guards for one frontline player means that guy has to be a Championship maker all on his own for years because it would take a long time to replace two top guards.

[BeerIsGood!]

Through last season, Duncan had made $85M in his NBA career and Garnett $165M. Over the course of the rest of their contracts, that spread will get even bigger.

Staying in school pays off :lol

Garnett sacrificed personal success at the expense of getting a huge contract. Because of his greediness he will never win anything and hasn't won anything or been even remotely successful on a team level (in a team sport) since he entered the NBA. Right now he stands to be one of the biggest wasted talents of all time. I wonder if the extra money that he doesn't need consoles him at night?

[Kori Ellis]

Garnett sacrificed personal success at the expense of getting a huge contract. Because of his greediness he will never win anything and hasn't won anything or been even remotely successful on a team level (in a team sport) since he entered the NBA. Right now he stands to be one of the biggest wasted talents of all time. I wonder if the extra money that he doesn't need consoles him at night?

If he went to college 4 years, he would have been guaranteed a title or come close?

He's a wasted talent because he hasn't won a title?

I don't follow the logic.

And I don't think he is greedy. He gives an incredible amount of money to charity.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Garnett sacrificed personal success at the expense of getting a huge contract. Because of his greediness he will never win anything and hasn't won anything or been even remotely successful on a team level (in a team sport) since he entered the NBA. Right now he stands to be one of the biggest wasted talents of all time. I wonder if the extra money that he doesn't need consoles him at night?

Call me crazy, but I'd take money over championships... taking the money doesn't make him greedy, it makes him smart

[sprrs]

I would trade Manu and TP for Lebron and Wade......that's about it.

[SequSpur]

Duncan blows.

[cheguevara]

what the fuck is this Oden shit. It would take years to be contenders with Oden.

Beno, Finley, Bowen, Duncan and Oden = 1st round exits for the next 3 years.

[SequSpur]

When Ohio State can beat Palo Alto, I'll be impressed.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

what the fuck is this Oden shit. It would take years to be contenders with Oden.

Beno, Finley, Bowen, Duncan and Oden = 1st round exits for the next 3 years.

But it makes us contenders for the next 15 years.. not just the next 5

[MrChug]

Oh please. Like we'd ever think about trading our starting backcourt. Only desperate teams make blockbuster deals like that. And the Spurs are not desperate. Sucky right now, yes, but not desperate.

Trading them would be stupid, like ...
(1) dumping an incredibly hot girl who would do whetever you say, because you don't know where the relationship is going

(2) swimming with dolphins, except they're really sharkies

(3) not signing up for Vonage.

:lmao

[kskonn]

Duncan stayed because he told his mom he would get a degree if I remember correctly.


Yea exactly he stayed in school because he promised his mom, who had passed away, that he would get a college degree.


for duncan it never had to do with getting more money or more refined(although this was a biproduct of him staying) it had to do with keeping promises he had made.

Look at it this way, if he had not stayed he probably would not have ended up with the spurs and therefore may not have won the championships he did. He would have never had Robinson as a mentor etc... so in retrospect maybe it did work out for him.

[MrChug]

Call me crazy, but I'd take money over championships... taking the money doesn't make him greedy, it makes him smart

A smart loser. :lol

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

A smart loser. :lol

Ask Horry... He'd give up all his championships to have Karl Malones career

[AFBlue]

Trading TWO All-star calibre guards for one frontline player means that guy has to be a Championship maker all on his own for years because it would take a long time to replace two top guards.

Well said...

Current combined production is roughly 35ppg, 8rpg, 8apg, and 3spg.

Most comparable to those stats is Dwayne Wade @ 28.8ppg, 5rpg, 7.9apg, and 2.15spg.

So even if Dwayne Wade was offered up (not a chance in hell) it wouldn't be statistically prudent to do that deal. And the question your asking is if I'd give up those two for a CHANCE at a guy like Oden or Durant, who MIGHT be as dominant...the answer for me is easily NO.

BTW, of the two I'd take Durant. He could lead the league in scoring, be top 5 in rebounding, and top 10 in blocks & steals. He's rediculously good.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Well said...

Current combined production is roughly 35ppg, 8rpg, 8apg, and 3spg.

Most comparable to those stats is Dwayne Wade @ 28.8ppg, 5rpg, 7.9apg, and 2.15spg.

So even if Dwayne Wade was offered up (not a chance in hell) it wouldn't be statistically prudent to do that deal. And the question your asking is if I'd give up those two for a CHANCE at a guy like Oden or Durant, who MIGHT be as dominant...the answer for me is easily NO.

BTW, of the two I'd take Durant. He could lead the league in scoring, be top 5 in rebounding, and top 10 in blocks & steals. He's rediculously good.


Actually, if you are going by that theory, Add in Brent Barry's 10/3/3 (in limited minutes) and it averages out to 39/8/11 and would be statistically prudent to make the trade

[BeerIsGood!]

If he went to college 4 years, he would have been guaranteed a title or come close?

He's a wasted talent because he hasn't won a title?

I don't follow the logic.

And I don't think he is greedy. He gives an incredible amount of money to charity.

Guaranteed a title after 4 years of college - no. Had a better chance of a title if his outrageous contract didn't handicap his team? Yes.

Not only has he not won a title, but his teams are an embarrasment. Only a few decent seasons peaking with a WCF appearance. Other than that his talent has been wasted on horrible teams. I'm not saying that it's his fault, but the size of the contract does negatively impact the team's cap - so it's loosely like trading money for success.

I personally like the guy he's become as he matured during his career. Very outspoken, but seems like a genuinely nice and caring person. Greediness was a bad choice of words on my part.

Call me crazy, but I would take $85 million dollars and three championships over $165 million and nothing to show for it. ANYTHING is bad in excess, and money is no different. $85 million is excess enough for me - even at that figure I'd have to be creative in how I dispersed the money to keep from being corrupted by it.

[Kori Ellis]

Guaranteed a title after 4 years of college - no. Had a better chance of a title if his outrageous contract didn't handicap his team? Yes.

Not only has he not won a title, but his teams are an embarrasment. Only a few decent seasons peaking with a WCF appearance. Other than that his talent has been wasted on horrible teams. I'm not saying that it's his fault, but the size of the contract does negatively impact the team's cap - so it's loosely like trading money for success.

I personally like the guy he's become as he matured during his career. Very outspoken, but seems like a genuinely nice and caring person. Greediness was a bad choice of words on my part.

Call me crazy, but I would take $85 million dollars and three championships over $165 million and nothing to show for it. ANYTHING is bad in excess, and money is no different. $85 million is excess enough for me - even at that figure I'd have to be creative in how I dispersed the money to keep from being corrupted by it.

Well it's not like he went to the NBA because he was greedy and knew that the salary structure was going to change soon and be lower, right? It's not like he could have said, "Hmm.. maybe if I wait a couple years and don't go to the NBA now, then the salary rules will change and give my team some more flexibility". That's why I didn't get you calling him greedy. So I'm glad you re-phrased it.


Not only has he not won a title, but his teams are an embarrasment. Only a few decent seasons peaking with a WCF appearance. Other than that his talent has been wasted on horrible teams

They went to the playoffs eight/nine straight years, right?
So you can't really call his teams an embarrassment. Embarrassments are bottom of the barrel teams, not playoff teams.

[AFBlue]

Actually, if you are going by that theory, Add in Brent Barry's 10/3/3 (in limited minutes) and it averages out to 39/8/11 and would be statistically prudent to make the trade

You're adding a value that already exists in the pre-existing team, so it cancels out. If you're assuming that he doubles his production with increased minutes, then you can add those #'s, but if not...it all comes out in the wash.

I was saying from a purely statistical standpoint, it's not feasible to do. There are several other peripheral reasons why it's not feasible.

[AFBlue]

They went to the playoffs eight/nine straight years, right?
So you can't really call his teams an embarrassment. Embarrassments are bottom of the barrel teams, not playoff teams.

Any team with a talent like Kevin Garnett that is not a perennial contender is an embarrassment.

Having said that, the onus is on the T-Wolves front office for not making the right personnel decisions to surround Garnett with the right players. Letting Cassell/Sprewell go, giving huge contracts to defensive specialists and backup PGs, and failing to draft anyone of note (though 2006 seems successful) have made this team what it is--a fringe lottery team with little opportunity to improve, but with less opportunity to tank the season. It's just a sad situation all-around.

[BeerIsGood!]

They went to the playoffs eight/nine straight years, right?
So you can't really call his teams an embarrassment. Embarrassments are bottom of the barrel teams, not playoff teams.

It's not like we're talking baseball here where only the elite teams make the playoffs. In a league where 1/2 of the teams make the playoffs - making the playoffs isn't that great of an accomplishment. If a team has a superstar and either barely makes the playoffs or now doesn't make them at all - that's an embarrasment.

[BeerIsGood!]

Well it's not like he went to the NBA because he was greedy and knew that the salary structure was going to change soon and be lower, right? It's not like he could have said, "Hmm.. maybe if I wait a couple years and don't go to the NBA now, then the salary rules will change and give my team some more flexibility". That's why I didn't get you calling him greedy. So I'm glad you re-phrased it.





Regarding the salary, he could have been working with the FO on a plan if he were to restructure his salary. Many people in other sports have done so (Troy Aikman) in their quest for success, but it obviously wasn't that important to him.


(I am not aware of anything in the CBA back in the late 90's that would have prevented him from doing so, but if there was disregard this statement).

[AFBlue]

Regarding the salary, he could have been working with the FO on a plan if he were to restructure his salary. Many people in other sports have done so (Troy Aikman) in their quest for success, but it obviously wasn't that important to him.


(I am not aware of anything in the CBA back in the late 90's that would have prevented him from doing so, but if there was disregard this statement).

I think the only thing he can do is exercise an opt-out if he has a player option in the last year or two of his deal and work an entirely new contract. Of course, there are risks with opt-outs like the player joining another team (see: Carlos Boozer and Cavs). Why opt out to take less money and put trust in the T-Wolves when he couldjust as easily join a legit championship contender (Spurs?) for the mid-level exception (a la Karl Malone)?


Bottom Line: While his cost against the cap would be tough to overcome when searching for sidekicks, it's not impossible. It's on the Minnesota front office to make the personnel moves. They offered him $126M, what was he supposed to do...turn it down?

[Oh, Gee!!]

for D-Wade

[BLACKMAMBA24]

D-Whistle