Meet Barack Obama [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

Extra Stout

02-07-2007, 11:33 AM

How could you guys feel safe if the person running our country was raised as a Muslim?
Good point. While Obama's nominally Muslim father took off when he was 2, and his agnostic mother raised him in a secular environment, you have the following issues:

1) Obama has Muslim genes. Those little jihadi strands of DNA could manifest themselves at any time. Under a microscope, you can actually see his red blood cells beating themselves with little tiny swords.

2) Muslim osmosis. Obama's Muslim father ostensibly touched him at some point, throwing off Islamist cooties, which can flare up at any time after laying dormant for years.

3) Obama's father probably sang "Death to America" to him every night as a lullaby.

Then you have the issue of Obama attending Indonesian public school in first and second grade. This creates even more issues:

1) All schools in Muslim countries teach terrorism, regardless of whether they are public schools or private Wahabbi-funded madrassas. Rather than playing "cowboys and Indians" during recess, Muslim kids play "suicide bombers." Instead of "London Bridge is Falling Down" they sing "Throw the Jew Down the Well" and "Smite the Necks of the Bacon-Eaters."

2) While the school allegedly had a Christian religious class for Christian children, it actually was a class for aspiring terrorist kids to learn the Bible, so they could pretend to be Christians when they ran for President of the United States.

3) Based upon this findings, it is clear that when Obama moved to a Catholic school at the age of 8, and later to Hawaii to live with his grandparents, it was just the next step in his training as a terrorist mole.

Thank you.

clambake

02-07-2007, 11:40 AM

Halarious.....cooties......down the well........bacon eaters...

DarkReign

02-07-2007, 01:08 PM

2) While the school allegedly had a Christian religious class for Christian children, it actually was a class for aspiring terrorist kids to learn the Bible, so they could pretend to be Christians when they ran for President of the United States.

Friggin awesome.

101A

02-07-2007, 01:20 PM

How could you guys feel safe if the person running our country was raised as a Muslim?

Back away from the Tom Clancy novels, and put down the remote. Enough "24" for you.

ponky

02-07-2007, 01:59 PM

Back away from the Tom Clancy novels, and put down the remote. Enough "24" for you.

lol...i should browse these political forums more often, they are pure comedy

mavs>spurs2

02-07-2007, 03:29 PM

Lol just tryin to get a rise out of you guys. Although my history teacher says alot of people won't vote for him because his name sounds like osama, personally I don't think it will matter.

DarkReign

02-07-2007, 03:57 PM

Lol just tryin to get a rise out of you guys. Although my history teacher says alot of people won't vote for him because his name sounds like osama, personally I don't think it will matter.

Dont listen to teachers about anything but whats on the test (so you can pass).

Dont you know? Teachers are just scorned liberals with motive to convert youth to their liberal ideals. Robin Hood wannabes, all of em. (youth that will eventually grow and learn teachers are in fact, bullshit).

Nbadan

02-07-2007, 05:01 PM

Back on topic....Obama refuses federal matching funds, Hillary not doing as well as has been reported...

Sources close to Sen. Barack Obama's campaign tell the Hotline that the Illinois senator has decided to opt out of the public financing system for both the nomination fight and the general election.

Obama joins Sen. Hillary Clinton, Ex-Sen. John Edwards, Sen. John McCain and Ex-MA Gov. Mitt Romney in deciding to forgo the federal matching funds.

Also today: In the wake of a Wall Street Journal article suggesting Clinton will raise in excess of $30 million this quarter, Clinton's campaign plans to float a much lower figure -- $15 million. That's hard to square with the public ebullience of some of her chief fundraisers.

The first quarter of fundraising matters more for Clinton than for Obama in this way: a lower-than-expected first quarter will partially derail the inevitability train that's carrying her to Denver. We’d ask: “Where did the vaunted fundraising machine go?” “Do Democratic donors not expect her to win?

Hotline Blog (http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/02/obama_to_opt_ou_1.html)

Rumor is Obama will 'officially' announce on Saturday.

Barack Obama

02-10-2007, 07:35 AM

That is a correct rumor and I'm in this to win. Not be somebody's running mate although I will not rule that out.

gtownspur

02-10-2007, 02:11 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Bill_Richardson%2C_official_DOE_photo.png/160px-Bill_Richardson%2C_official_DOE_photo.png

Uh huh hyyyyyyyyyyyiiiiie! Eso Eso, Pan Con Queso!

El show de JOhnny Canalesss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Nbadan

02-13-2007, 05:06 PM

Stumbling early out of the block...

Obama apologies again for saying soldiers' lives 'wasted'

NASHUA, New Hampshire (AP) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is apologizing for saying the lives of the more than 3,000 U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war were "wasted."

During his first campaign trip this weekend, the Illinois senator told a crowd in Iowa: "We now have spent $400 billion and have seen over 3,000 lives of the bravest young Americans wasted."

He immediately apologized on Sunday, saying the remark was "a slip of the tongue.".

No harm, no foul...

Yonivore

02-13-2007, 09:22 PM

No harm, no foul...
He wishes.

ThomasGranger

02-13-2007, 09:58 PM

I can see how this gaffe will continue to haunt him all the way through the primaries.

Yonivore

02-13-2007, 10:11 PM

I can see how this gaffe will continue to haunt him all the way through the primaries.
Particularly if how good things are actually going in Iraq starts to leak out.

Talk about wasted.

IceColdBrewski

02-13-2007, 10:48 PM

.

No harm, no foul...

Can only wonder if you'll extend the same courtesy to Rudy when/if he makes his first "slip of the tongue." I'm guessin you'll use it to make him look like the anti-Christ.

ChumpDumper

02-13-2007, 11:22 PM

It won't dog him as much as Hillary's vote on the war will dog her.

ChumpDumper

02-13-2007, 11:50 PM

Lincoln was gay though -- it all evens out.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 12:31 AM

Lincoln was gay though -- it all evens out.
So, you equate homosexuality with illegal drug use?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 12:50 AM

Inasmuch as each matters to me (we're talking distant past drug use) in a presidential election, yes.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 12:59 AM

Inasmuch as each matters to me (we're talking distant past drug use) in a presidential election, yes.
So, you're saying homosexuality is a vice equivalent to past drug use when viewed in the context of a presidential election?

I'm sorry, I'm not following you. I'm trying to understand where homosexuality comes into the equation at all.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 01:00 AM

I'm sorry, I'm not following you.Exactly.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 01:12 AM

Exactly.
Seriously, what does the allegation of Lincoln's homosexuality (and, I'm not even sure if these allegations were made while he was alive) have to do with Obama's self-confessed history of drug use?

Do explain.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 01:14 AM

Neither matters to me, that's what.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 01:24 AM

Neither matters to me, that's what.
Okay, but why bring up an unsubstantiated claim of Lincoln's homosexuality and equate it with Obama's self-confessed past drug use as things about which you don't care in an election?

Raising the homosexuality allegation over all the other alleged illegal acts of all subsequent presidential candidates -- including past use of illegal drugs, since the assassination of Lincoln, as being the appropriate comparison against which to place Obama's drug use, strikes me as an indication of how you view homosexuality.

Got something against homosexuality, Chumpy?

Buck Rogers simply stated that Lincoln didn't do what Obama has confessed as a way to contrast the two. What does Honest Abe's sexual orientation got to do with it?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 01:26 AM

Okay, but why bring up an unsubstantiated claim of Lincoln's homosexuality and equate it with Obama's self-confessed past drug use as things about which you don't care in an election?Buck brought up Lincoln. It was a joke.
Got something against homosexuality, Chumpy?Yeah, you really got me there. :rolleyes

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 01:28 AM

Buck brought up Lincoln. It was a joke.
Oh. Ha ha.

Yeah, you really got me there. :rolleyes
Hey, you're the one that used in a context that suggested it was somehow wrong.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 01:30 AM

Hey, you're the one who somehow took it seriously.

ThomasGranger

02-14-2007, 01:30 AM

And Bush didn't confess doing what Obama did but he didn't deny that he did do it. It's a non-issue.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 01:31 AM

And Bush didn't confess doing what Obama did but he didn't deny that he did do it. It's a non-issue.Exactly.

Nbadan

02-14-2007, 01:34 AM

And Bush didn't confess doing what Obama did but he didn't deny that he did do it. It's a non-issue.

...but it can be lethal to aspiring black politicians when mixed with hot white babes. It's all in the context.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 01:36 AM

Hey, you're the one who somehow took it seriously.
Hey, Lincoln's sexual orientation would have never even occurred to me in this context...seriously or humorously.

ThomasGranger

02-14-2007, 01:37 AM

...but it can be lethal to aspiring black politicians when mixed with hot white babes. It's all in the context.

Especially if your name is Harold Ford, Jr. (except the drugs part)

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 01:37 AM

Exactly.
I agree, it's a non-issue.

Nbadan

02-14-2007, 01:38 AM

Especially if your name is Harold Ford, Jr.

Ford will be back. Dean won't be in the DNC chair forever.

ThomasGranger

02-14-2007, 01:39 AM

Ford will be back. Dean won't be in the DNC chair forever.

I agree. He's just getting started.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 01:40 AM

...but it can be lethal to aspiring black politicians when mixed with hot white babes. It's all in the context.
ChumpDumper playing to the gay bashers and now you're playing to the racists?

Ever notice it is those who claim to be color blind and gay supporters who first introduce these aspects into a debate over topics that, to that point, had nothing to do with either?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 01:41 AM

What debate?

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 01:46 AM

What debate?
Well, in this thread, the debate over whether or not Obama's past drug use is relevant to his bid for the presidency. Or, initially, the debate over whether his calling combat deaths in Iraq "wasted" lives was a show-stopper in his campaign.

You brought up homosexuality and Nbadan brought up racism.

By the way, I kind of followed the Ford race and I don't recall his taste in women ever being raised.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 01:47 AM

By the way, I kind of followed the Ford race and I don't recall his taste in women ever being raised.You didn't follow it at all then.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 01:58 AM

You didn't follow it at all then.
Oh, I can imagine there were things said in lefty blogs or suggested by the media that indicated Ford critics were critical because of who he was with; but, none of the coverage I saw or blogs I read ever mentioned this.

Conservatives are regularly tagged with the racist or homophobic tag in liberal discussions over why Democratic candidates are critized by the right.

I didn't know he was with a white woman.

From my recollection the criticism was mostly based on his associations with his crooked father and his silly campaign mistakes, like crashing his opponents news conference.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 02:00 AM

By the way, nice diversion from the discussion over you and Nbadan introducing the homophobe and racist cards in this thread.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:03 AM

Oh, I can imagine there were things said in lefty blogs or suggested by the media that indicated Ford critics were critical because of who he was with; but, none of the coverage I saw or blogs I read ever mentioned this.:lmao

You didn't follow it at all.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 02:05 AM

:lmao

You didn't follow it at all.
Really, who brought it up? Care to share a link that demonstrates this was made an issue by his critics or opponent?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:06 AM

:lmao

You sure followed it closely, didn't you?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:10 AM

I'd love to help you Charles, but I don't want to bring up something like that in a political discussion. Apparently it's wrong to discuss anything like that.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 02:16 AM

Well, what do you know, I googled, "Harold Ford Jr. and white women," and presto, I found a bunch of lefty blogs making the claim that Harold Ford Jr. lost the Senate race because Corker was preying on the "he's coming for our women" tactic.

I even watched one of the ads they said proved this. What I saw was criticism Ford attended a Playboy part (he's a playboy) and that he's into porn...among other criticisms in the ad. I didn't get the sense it was even suggesting he was "coming for our women."

Like I said, I would imagine there were left blogs making this claim. But, I didn't see any of this in the news articles and blogs I read on the race. And, I took an interest when he crashed Corker's press conference that day.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:16 AM

How dare you talk about such things!

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 02:19 AM

I'd love to help you Charles, but I don't want to bring up something like that in a political discussion. Apparently it's wrong to discuss anything like that.
Not when it's the fucking topic you idiot. Man, you are clueless.

I know, you just can't produce a non-lefty source that claims that 1) Harold Ford, Jr. was "coming for our women" or that his seeing a white woman was something of an issue in the campaign or 2) a righty source that actually says that.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 02:19 AM

I see you don't have an answer.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:20 AM

How dare you bring this up!

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:20 AM

It is verboten!

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:22 AM

:lmao at you close following of the race.

You were all over that commercial story three months later, Scoop!

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 02:28 AM

:lmao at you close following of the race.

You were all over that commercial story three months later, Scoop!
I said I kind of followed the race.

And, it was followed by many of the blogs I read. I never saw the topic come up.

Again, I challenge you to produce something either from the media or the right that says Ford seeing white women was an issue in the campaign.

I'm googling hard now, and, yes, I'm finding a bunch of lefty blogs making this claim but, when I read or view the material they say proves it out, it's about his playboy ways.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 02:29 AM

So, unless you're going to produce a link, let's get back to the original discussion.

Why did you bring up homosexuality in this thread? Do you have something against gay people?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:31 AM

If it's not in a right wing blog, why should I read it?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:32 AM

I'm googling hard nowDid you find any pre-9/11 Afghanistan invasion plans?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:51 AM

Again, I challenge you to produce something either from the media or the right that says Ford seeing white women was an issue in the campaign.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/26/us/politics/26tennessee.html?ex=1319515200&en=646746eb94caff8e&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

You don't google as hard as you claim, Charles.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 02:52 AM

Why did you bring up homosexuality in this thread?It was a joke.
Do you have something against gay people?Nope.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:04 AM

It was a joke.
A joke about President Lincoln's sexual orientation? Isn't that being more than a little insensitive to gays?

Nope.
I guess I'll have to take your word for it but, it sure appears to me you have some issue with it or you wouldn't have brought it up in comparison -- jokingly or not.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 03:06 AM

A joke about President Lincoln's sexual orientation? Isn't that being more than a little insensitive to gays?Why? Would they not not want Lincoln to be associated with gays?
I guess I'll have to take your word for it but, it sure appears to me you have some issue with it or you wouldn't have brought it up in comparison -- jokingly or not.Since you can't let it go, I'll assume it's a huge issue with you.

Are you gay?

sabar

02-14-2007, 03:20 AM

Yoni must be a psychologist.

People can't make a passing comment without being a closet racist/homophobe now a days. Apparently rabid accusation of such is the answer to eliminating these problems from society.

Who's really playing the prejudice cards here?

In real news Obama is still second in popularity behind Hillary.
Hopefully that changes.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:24 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/26/us/politics/26tennessee.html?ex=1319515200&en=646746eb94caff8e&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

You don't google as hard as you claim, Charles.
I watched that ad. They were being critical of his attending the Playboy party. Why does the race of the woman have anything to do with it? Are you suggesting it should have been a black woman so that it would avoid such criticism?

Well, then they'd of said the ad was telling Ford to stick to his own race...particularly if it was known he's a multi-racial dater.

Now, let's look at the article:

Ad Seen as Playing to Racial Fears
Seen by whom?

Critics asserted that the advertisement was a clear effort to play to racial stereotypes and fears, essentially, playing the race card in an election where Mr. Ford is trying to break a century of history and become the first black senator from the South since Reconstruction.
Who's playing the race card here? Hey, I can't help how "critics" characterize the ad.

Why does the race of the woman in the ad matter at all? Why can't it be a white woman?

I think that they characterized it that way speaks to their own racism. Kind of like you bringing up Lincoln's alleged homosexuality, out of the blue, belies some bias you have.

Seriously, couldn't the reference have had more to do with the fact she was a party girl he met at the Playboy party than her race? Talk about seeing faces in the smoke.

Hilary Shelton, director of the N.A.A.C.P.’s Washington bureau, said the spot took aim at the sensitivities many Americans still have about interracial dating.
Sounds to me like Hilary Shelton is sensitive about interracial dating.

Mr. Ford told his audience here, and elsewhere in recent days, that the attacks were simply a sign of desperation, a sign the Republicans have nothing else to say. He added, “You know your opponent is scared when his main opposition against you is, ‘My opponent likes girls.’ ” The audience erupted in laughter.
Doesn't appear Ford thought it was racial. It seems he saw the criticism the way I do, except he left out party and Playboy.

In fact, I could argue this response is trying to insinuate Corker is gay or something? Otherwise, why would Ford present it this way? It's just as outlandish as drawing the Ford is "coming for our women" argument when viewing that ad.

In an interview, Mr. Ford demurred when asked if he thought the advertisement was injecting race into the campaign. “You need to ask those people over there what they tried to do with that ad,” he said. “It’s tasteless, but I’ve come to expect that from my opponent.”
So, did they ask? Apparently not.

I read that article and I see the left trying to gin up some fake race issue to make Ford look more sympathetic.

And, you didn't meet the challenge. Find a source that criticizes Ford for dating white women. Imagined stuff doesn't count.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 03:26 AM

I'm changing the rules.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 03:27 AM

Yoni, if you are gay and offended by my saying Lincoln was gay, I apologize.

sabar

02-14-2007, 03:28 AM

Talk about seeing faces in the smoke.

Kind of like you bringing up Lincoln's alleged homosexuality, out of the blue, belies some bias you have.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 03:30 AM

It's pretty clear from his implied biases that Yoni is gay and doesn't want to be associated with Lincoln in any way.

I apologize profusely for any such association that was inferred.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:32 AM

Yoni, if you are gay and offended by my saying Lincoln was gay, I apologize.
I'm neither gay nor offended. Just curious as to why you picked that to compare with Obama's drug use.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:32 AM

It's pretty clear from his implied biases that Yoni is gay and doesn't want to be associated with Lincoln in any way.

I apologize profusely for any such association that was inferred.
He was a great President. I could care less about his sexual orientation.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 03:35 AM

Just curious as to why you picked that to compare with Obama's drug use.Why? Why do you want to know so much about me personally?

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:37 AM

I didn't change the rules, you didn't produce anything but an article that quoted lefties accusing the Corker campaign of inferring something the ad doesn't contain.

Seriously, why does the race of the woman in that ad make a difference?

Say, how 'bout the inference that only white women are slutty party girls? Maybe they should be upset at Corker for that.

You found what I said you'd find. You found what I found.

Find something that shows the Corker campaign or, anyone on the right, saying that Ford dating white women is a problem. You can't do it...it didn't happen except for in the race-baiting minds of the left.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:38 AM

Why? Why do you want to know so much about me personally?
That's not a personal matter, it's a curiosity about your post. I'm intrigued.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 03:38 AM

That's not a personal matter, it's a curiosity about your post. I'm intrigued.By what?

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:53 AM

By what?
The introduction of homosexuality in a discussion about drug use and campaigning for President.

It seemed an odd reference.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 03:57 AM

Why did you immediately start asking questions about me then?

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 04:01 AM

Why did you immediately start asking questions about me then?
Probably to help me understand the reference. Didn't mean to pry.

I'm still curious about why you picked homosexuality as a point of comparison.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 04:08 AM

So you are curious about me. That says alot. Especially your attempt to hide it.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 09:34 AM

So you are curious about me. That says alot. Especially your attempt to hide it.
Actually, I was just illustrating how people like you attempt bait people into traps where the term homophobe starts getting tossed around.

It's not unlike the Ford campaign seeing some imagined racism in an ad by the Corker campaign and then baiting the media and public into a conversation that can never be resolved.

The makers of the ad said there were no racial meaning to the ad, the critics disagree. Why do they disagree? Well, I believe it allows them to paint Corker as a racist.

I was just asking why you would even bring up homosexuality in the context of the discussion being had in this thread. Why is it even relevant?

I think you were hoping someone would say something that would allow you or some like-minded idiot, in this forum, to go off on a tangent about homophobia or some such. It happens all the time in here.

Really, I don't want to know anything about you personally, I don't think I could care any less.

I do find it interesting that you continue to try and make this into some kind of personal issue instead of just explaining why you chose that particular rumor about former President Lincoln when making your comparison.

Ocotillo

02-14-2007, 10:56 AM

Wow! So a good speaker means a good President? Lets hit the lecture circuits. I'm sure we can find some more candidates.

It got Reagan canonized by the right. From where I sit all he brought to the table was charisma and speaking skills. Other than that? Nixon without the five o'clock shadow.

ThomasGranger

02-14-2007, 11:17 AM

It's not unlike the Ford campaign seeing some imagined racism in an ad by the Corker campaign and then baiting the media and public into a conversation that can never be resolved.

The makers of the ad said there were no racial meaning to the ad, the critics disagree. Why do they disagree? Well, I believe it allows them to paint Corker as a racist.

It may not have been as overtly racist as, say, the Willie Horton ads that Bush Sr. used (quite effectively) against Dukakis, but the Corker ad did invoke deep rooted racist anxieties about miscegenation. Anybody who is even remotely familiar with American history knows that.

Were they calculated to do that? Who can say for sure except the people who made them, but given the stakes of the contest and the emotional content of most political advertising, I'm thinking yes.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:46 AM

It may not have been as overtly racist as, say, the Willie Horton ads that Bush Sr. used (quite effectively) against Dukakis, but the Corker ad did invoke deep rooted racist anxieties about miscegenation. Anybody who is even remotely familiar with American history knows that.

Were they calculated to do that? Who can say for sure except the people who made them, but given the stakes of the contest and the emotional content of most political advertising, I'm thinking yes.
See, I disagree that the Willie Horton ads were racist. I can't help that the prisoner Dukakis's furlough program allowed to commit a heinous act was black.

The point of that ad was that Dukakis was soft on crime and that his silly furlough program got someone killed.

Only people who want to believe the ad was racist saw it that way. Okay, there's the other category who wanted the public to believe the ad was racist so they could accuse President Bush of being a racist and started planting that seed in criticisms of the ad.

Are you saying that if Willie Horton had been white, the Bush campaign wouldn't have used the circumstance to demostrate Dukakis's ineptness on crime issues?

I think the same applies with the Corker ad.

ThomasGranger

02-14-2007, 12:50 PM

The point of that ad was that Dukakis was soft on crime and that his silly furlough program got someone killed.

I got that, but the goal of the ad was to scare voters, and the way in which Horton's image was used was a big part of that equation.

Larry McCarthy, the guy who made the ad called the mug shot of Horton "every suburban mother's greatest fear." Hmmm, wonder what he meant by that?

Only people who want to believe the ad was racist saw it that way.

Or, only people who don't want to believe the ad was racist are completely blind to the way race is used . . . I guess we can go down the "it's just a matter of perspective road" on this and agree to disagree.

Are you saying that if Willie Horton had been white, the Bush campaign wouldn't have used the circumstance to demostrate Dukakis's ineptness on crime issues?

No, I don't know what they would have done. What I am saying is that both ads used racial stereotypes and anxieties to scare/anger voters. If you don't think that's a racist form of political advertising, then I guess we have different notions of what constitutes racism.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 01:21 PM

I got that, but the goal of the ad was to scare voters, and the way in which Horton's image was used was a big part of that equation.
Criminals sometimes look scary...even white ones. If the guy had looked like Barak Obama or Louis Farrakhan, both of whom are snazzy dressers with decent haircuts, I doubt the image would have been effective and probably not used. Incidentally, if the guy had looked like Charles Manson, I believe it would have been used in the same manner. I still don't buy the argument it was used because he was black. I think it was used because he looked like a fucking murderer. He was scary looking.

Larry McCarthy, the guy who made the ad called the mug shot of Horton "every suburban mother's greatest fear." Hmmm, wonder what he meant by that?
That the guy was scary looking. Are you inferring there are no suburban black mothers? That's a racist stereotype as well.

Or, only people who don't want to believe the ad was racist are completely blind to the way race is used . . . I guess we can go down the "it's just a matter of perspective road" on this and agree to disagree.
Okay, but to the extent that I believe the critique that these ads were racist is intended to incite some racial response in me -- a suburban white dad -- I think deserves my response.

I didn't see either ad as racist. It never occurred to me until the race-baiters started harping on it. And, to infer that suburban white mom's are racist, instead of just scare shitless of a heinous criminal, is, in my view, racist.

No, I don't know what they would have done. What I am saying is that both ads used racial stereotypes and anxieties to scare/anger voters. If you don't think that's a racist form of political advertising, then I guess we have different notions of what constitutes racism.
I don't agree that the ads used racial stereotypes. I believe both ads were intending to convey a negative image, no doubt. But, that Willie Horton is a black murderer who looks like a murderer and that the woman in the Ford ad is a slutty white girl portraying someone Ford may have encountered at a Playboy party is merely coincidental and only racist in the minds of those who see racism in everything.

ThomasGranger

02-14-2007, 01:46 PM

I still don't buy the argument it was used because he was black. I think it was used because he looked like a fucking murderer. He was scary looking.

OK, fair enough.

Are you inferring there are no suburban black mothers? That's a racist stereotype as well.

No, what kind of bullshit is that? Of course suburban moms are not exclusively white, just as urban moms are not exclusively black. But why didn't he simply say "all mothers." Answer: because he was speaking about pushing the buttons of a specific demographic group which is predominantly white.

And, to infer that suburban white mom's are racist, instead of just scare shitless of a heinous criminal, is, in my view, racist.

Some are, some aren't. Again, quit trying to put words into my mouth.

But, that Willie Horton is a black murderer who looks like a murderer and that the woman in the Ford ad is a slutty white girl portraying someone Ford may have encountered at a Playboy party is merely coincidental and only racist in the minds of those who see racism in everything.

Merely coincidental? I've worked in advertising creating ads. You can bet that pretty much everything that goes into an ad is there for a reason, especially with political advertising. That shit is by design.

ponky

02-14-2007, 02:13 PM

I WILL be meeting him when he comes to Austin next Friday at Gregory Gym (U.T.)!

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 02:18 PM

No, what kind of bullshit is that? Of course suburban moms are not exclusively white, just as urban moms are not exclusively black. But why didn't he simply say "all mothers." Answer: because he was speaking about pushing the buttons of a specific demographic group which is predominantly white.
Or, it could be that suburban crime by urban criminals is a real fear.

Some are, some aren't. Again, quit trying to put words into my mouth.
I'm sorry if you took that wrong, I was referring generally to the assumption that the ad was intended to scare suburban white moms as opposed to all suburban moms. I can't speak to your specific position except for the fact that you posited that proposition here.

Merely coincidental? I've worked in advertising creating ads. You can bet that pretty much everything that goes into an ad is there for a reason, especially with political advertising. That shit is by design.
Okay, then explain the races of all the other people in the Corker ad. Why did the advertisers choose them? It couldn't be that they were the best actors for the parts and images they were trying to convey?

Look, you're right, marketing is a science. My point in saying race was coincidental is that I believe the woman was chosen for the ad because she could pull off a slutty woman with whom Ford might have encounter at a Playboy party and that's what they were trying to project; not that she was a white woman.

I'll even grant this. I wouldn't be surprised if the ad company had the conversation along the lines of should the actor be black or white because, well, if we use a black woman, the race-baiters are going to infer we want Ford (a person known to date white women) to stick to his race and quit dipping into our pool; and, if we use a white woman, the race-baiters are going to infer we're calling Ford out for "stealing our women folk."

Please tell me you see my point here.

It was a no win situation. I think they finally arrived at the conclusion at which that debate always arrives. We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't, it's a no-win proposition; let's just find a slutty looking woman to put in the ad to make our point that Ford is a jet-setting party boy.

Truth be told, it could probably be argued they relied on the blonde bimbo stereotype in order to make their point and how fair is that to white blonde women?

clambake

02-14-2007, 02:48 PM

ThomasGranger

02-14-2007, 02:50 PM

I see your point, Yoni, and even though I don't really agree I think we've monopolized this thread enough. So, I'd prefer to continue the race-in-political-advertising debate another day. I'm sure there will plenty of ads to pick apart if Obama makes it out of the primaries, probably even sooner than that.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:19 PM

Yoni, even with all you supposed condemnation of "playing the race card", you still seem quite satisfied with the characterizations the ford ad was clearly attempting to convey. It's also clear that if it benefits your position, then it's not crossing the line. I guess most of us are guilty of that, just not to your extent.
Yeah, because there are no attack ads run by Democrats that allege Republicans are evil, war-mongering, greedy, anti-environmental retards that want to kill all poor people and give everything to the oil companies.

Why is attacking a Playboy image somehow over the line? Family values is a big seller in politics.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:19 PM

clambake

02-14-2007, 03:21 PM

I take acception to the "kill all poor people" comment.

Hard to argue with the rest.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:30 PM

I take acception to the "kill all poor people" comment.

Hard to argue with the rest.
I seem to recall James Carville, in his hey day, implying that Republican policies on welfare reform would result in deaths...that Republicans were trying to kill poor people.

Fillmoe

02-14-2007, 03:31 PM

barack holla!

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 03:46 PM

I take acception to the "kill all poor people" comment.

Hard to argue with the rest.
Okay, not just poor people.

Ex-Clinton Aide Charges Republicans 'Want to Kill Us' (http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewPolitics.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C2005 07%5CPOL20050715a.html)

Republicans, he said, "want to kill us. See Video (http://www.cnsnews.com/video/2005/20050713Begala.wmv)

"I was driving past the Pentagon when that plane hit" on Sept. 11, 2001. "I had friends on that plane; this is deadly serious to me," Begala said.

"They want to kill me and my children if they can. But if they just kill me and not my children, they want my children to be comforted -- that while they didn't protect me because they cut my taxes, my children won't have to pay any money on the money they inherit," Begala said. "That is bulls*** national defense, and we should say that."
Which brings up an aside. Is Begala in on the BushCo Cabal that sent cruise missiles into the Pentagon? Now, I'm confused.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 04:30 PM

Really, I don't want to know anything about you personally, I don't think I could care any less.Then quit asking personal questions about me.

clambake

02-14-2007, 04:50 PM

I don't recall seeing that video (ad) run during primetime or any other time. The Ford ad was run for the consumption of primetime viewers, over and over and over again. To suggest they were of equal impact is ridiculous.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 06:12 PM

Then quit asking personal questions about me.
Okay. So, why the reference to homosexuality?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 06:12 PM

It was a joke.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 06:13 PM

It was a joke.
Yeah, you've said that. What made homosexuality crucial to the joke?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 06:17 PM

Crucial? Nothing. If you didn't find it funny or can't understand why it would be a joke, that's your problem.

If you want to accuse me of being a homophobe, quit being a coward and just say it.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 06:19 PM

Crucial? Nothing. If you didn't find it funny or can't understand why it would be a joke, that's your problem.

If you want to accuse me of being a homophobe, quit being a coward and just say it.
I don't want to get personal. I'm just trying to figure out why comparing Abraham Lincoln's alleged homosexuality with Barak Obama's confessed drug use is funny?

Anybody want to help Chump out? He seems reluctant to explain himself.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 06:24 PM

Of course you want to get personal.
I'm just trying to figure out why comparing Abraham Lincoln's alleged homosexuality with Barak Obama's confessed drug use is funny?Of course you do. It's burning you up inside.

If that's the case, it's more fun to not tell you.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 06:27 PM

Actually, I was just illustrating how people like you attempt bait people into traps where the term homophobe starts getting tossed around.When you have a secret agenda, it's best not to state the secret agenda and then try to continue posting as if the agenda is still a secret.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 07:43 PM

When you have a secret agenda, it's best not to state the secret agenda and then try to continue posting as if the agenda is still a secret.
Well, you were the one challenging me to call you a homophobe. Seems to prove my point.

Are you going to just keep ignoring the question? Why is it funnY?

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 07:44 PM

Of course you want to get personal.
Seriously, I don't.

Of course you do. It's burning you up inside.

If that's the case, it's more fun to not tell you.
I don't think you have an answer.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 07:45 PM

No I was the one calling you a coward. Since you admitted to your secret agenda, trying to play off like you didn't is pretty stupid.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 07:45 PM

I don't think you have an answer.So, why are you asking?

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 07:48 PM

My answer is: I thought it might piss off Buck Rogers beacuse he is an admitted homophobe.

Earthshattering, I know.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 10:13 PM

My answer is: I thought it might piss off Buck Rogers beacuse he is an admitted homophobe.

Earthshattering, I know.
So, you were baiting. Okay, thanks for confirming my suspicions.

I believe the same dynamic is at work when people see racism in the Willie Horton and Ford ads.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 10:17 PM

Wow, you couldn't tell?

That figures.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 10:21 PM

I believe the same dynamic is at work when people see racism in the Willie Horton and Ford ads.Nah, the same dynamic is at work when racists like those ads.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 10:34 PM

Nah, the same dynamic is at work when racists like those ads.
I agree. But, that doesn't mean the ad was intended to be racist.

Race-baiters hope to lure the Buck Rogers of the world into saying something stupid about an ad that wasn't intended, by the producer, to be racist. The baiter then uses the Buck Rogers response to validate that their suspicion was right, the ad is racist. And, voila! You have articles claiming that "critics" believe the Corker ad is racist.

Nevermind the denials of those who made the ad. Nevermind the position of people, like me, who simply saw an attack ad that was portraying Ford as a playboy.

Sincerely, I appreciate you demonstrating the dynamic so vividly and honestly.

And, as for you other comment. I had it figured out but, without an admission from you, this post wouldn't have been possible. You were pretty evasive about owning up to it as it was, I can only imagine how the thread would have evolved if I'd of come out and accused you of it outright.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 10:39 PM

I agree. But, that doesn't mean the ad was intended to be racist.Who knows? How can you honestly be sure of that?

You can't.

It's not like the producers had no idea their commercials might be so construed. If they didn't, they are not very good at what they do.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 10:43 PM

And really, all you wanted to do was make me look like a homophobe, but it didn't work.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 10:49 PM

Who knows? How can you honestly be sure of that?

You can't.
Sure you can. If Buck Rogers starts applauding the ad before Jesse Jackson starts condemning it, it's probably a racist ad.

If Jesse Jackson has to bait Buck Rogers into it, it's probably not.

If you've noticed, more and more, the Jesse Jacksons of the world are having to step forward and tell us when racism has occurred. Why? Because it's less prevalent and more commonly not the reason a black person has been cast in a negative light.

As one example, I'd ask you to remember the students that started that near riot at a high school football game. Until Jesse came along and told you they were being targeted for punishment because they were black, most people just thought they were thugs that started a riot at a football game.

And, in the case of this ad, there were other plausible explanations for why the girl appeared in the ad. The most plausible, to me, was that they were trying to convey Ford's playboy image. I don't think race had anything at all to do with the ad. I don't know why that can't be the explanation over it being a racist portrayal.

I don't know this to be true, but -- let's say that Ford dates white women exclusively -- how honest a portrayal would it be to have casted a black woman in that role? The more important characteristic for the actor was that she was young, king of promiscuous and slutty looking, and that she met Ford at a playboy party.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 10:51 PM

Sure you can.You can tell the intent of every political ad producer in the universe? Tell me how you personally do it.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 10:52 PM

And really, all you wanted to do was make me look like a homophobe, but it didn't work.
No, I wanted to expose you as the baiter that you are.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 10:52 PM

You can tell the intent of every political ad producer in the universe? Tell me how you personally do it.
I just did.

ponky

02-14-2007, 10:54 PM

If you've noticed, more and more, the Jesse Jacksons of the world are having to step forward and tell us when racism has occurred. Why? Because it's less prevalent and more commonly not the reason a black person has been cast in a negative light.

You have got to be fucking kidding, right? Racism doesn't only mean stringing blacks up in trees and not allowing them to eat at the same table in a diner. The internet has allowed every tom, dick and harry to *safely* express their racist tendencies whenever they have the urge. I'm not even talking about extreme racist sites, I'm talking simple stuff like xbox live, law student forums, youtube threads, etc.

gtownspur

02-14-2007, 10:54 PM

He is the Master of all Baiters.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 10:54 PM

No, I wanted to expose you as the baiter that you are.:lmao

Of course I'm a baiter, just like you are a dumbass. I expose you daily.

gtownspur

02-14-2007, 10:55 PM

You have got to be fucking kidding, right? Racism doesn't only mean stringing blacks up in trees and not allowing them to eat at the same table in a diner. The internet has allowed every tom, dick and harry to *safely* express their racist tendencies whenever they have the urge. I'm not even talking about extreme racist sites, I'm talking simple stuff like xbox live, law student forums, youtube threads, etc.

You people..... :lol

I just wanted to see the reaction you would of had, had i really started a rant with that. :lol

Like carlos Mencia said, "We get too fucking offended."

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 10:56 PM

:lmao

Of course I'm a baiter, just like you are a dumbass. I expose you daily.
Hey, you admitted what you were doing. And, I agree with gtown, you're the master baiter in this forum. They should revoke your moderator privileges for such antics.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 10:56 PM

I just did.:lmao

So you know can just tell the intent of every person in the universe too, then. Nothing could ever have a hidden or ambiguous or alternate meaning.

You are onmipotent!

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 10:57 PM

This is hilarious.

Yoni just figured out I intentionally piss people off.

You're a fucking genius!

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 10:57 PM

You have got to be fucking kidding, right? Racism doesn't only mean stringing blacks up in trees and not allowing them to eat at the same table in a diner. The internet has allowed every tom, dick and harry to *safely* express their racist tendencies whenever they have the urge. I'm not even talking about extreme racist sites, I'm talking simple stuff like xbox live, law student forums, youtube threads, etc.
And this type of racism harms blacks how?

Do you think my comments are racist?

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 10:59 PM

This is hilarious.

Yoni just figured out I intentionally piss people off.

You're a fucking genius!
You could do it without perpetuating racist and homophobic vitriol. Why don't you do something more creative to piss people off?

ponky

02-14-2007, 10:59 PM

And this type of racism harms blacks how?

Do you think my comments are racist?

Which type of racism? The kind I mentioned?

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:00 PM

Which type of racism? The kind I mentioned?
Yes. The types you mentioned.

gtownspur

02-14-2007, 11:01 PM

:lmao

So you know can just tell the intent of every person in the universe too, then. Nothing could ever have a hidden or ambiguous or alternate meaning.

You are onmipotent!

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/bfd2.gif

Master Baiter.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 11:01 PM

You could do it without perpetuating racist and homophobic vitriol.:lmao Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I just love that you have become
the PC police in addition to a mind reading God.

You're a pompous idiot.

gtownspur

02-14-2007, 11:02 PM

This is hilarious.

Yoni just figured out I intentionally piss people off.

You're a fucking genius!

You mean Yoni just got you to admit you have nothing better to do than piss of people, wow. Clever.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 11:05 PM

You mean Yoni just got you to admit you have nothing better to do than piss of people, wow. Clever.Just like you've got nothing better to do than follow me around and get pissed off by me.

It took you idiots three years to figure out I like to piss people off, and now you're going to whine about it?

Congratulations, I appreciate all the attention.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:05 PM

:lmao Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I just love that you have become
the PC police in addition to a mind reading God.

You're a pompous idiot.
And you're a race and homophobe baiter. A master one, at that.

Oh, and as far as me being the PC police, I don't care if you change. Keep it up. Whatever gets you through the day.

I merely suggested Kori could do better than having such a person moderate the forum. But, I'm glad you admitted what you're doing. At least every one will know.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:06 PM

Just like you've got nothing better to do than follow me around and get pissed off by me.

It took you idiots three years to figure out I like to piss people off, and now you're going to whine about it?

Congratulations, I appreciate all the attention.
No, it didn't take three years and it's not that you just piss people off. It's that you choose to play the race and homophobe card in pursuit of your hobby of pissing people off.

ponky

02-14-2007, 11:07 PM

Yes. The types you mentioned.

Of course they're harmful, why wouldn't that be obvious to you? Anyway, I'm busy watching the Suns get trounced by the Sonics, I don't really have time to lay it all out for you right now, maybe later. As for your other question, I haven't really read many posts in this political forum so I wouldn't know if you come across as racist or not.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 11:08 PM

I don't care if you change.Of course you do. You want me punished by having my mod powers taken away.
But, I'm glad you admitted what you're doing. At least every one will know.Psssst. Everyone already knew except you.

But please, keep whining. It's entertaining.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 11:09 PM

No, it didn't take three years and it's not that you just piss people off. It's that you choose to play the race and homophobe card in pursuit of your hobby of pissing people off.I play the homophobe card to piss off homophobes. I play the dumbass card to piss you off.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:09 PM

Of course they're harmful, why wouldn't that be obvious to you? Anyway, I'm busy watching the Suns get trounced by the Sonics, I don't really have time to lay it all out for you right now, maybe later. As for your other question, I haven't really read many posts in this political forum so I wouldn't know if you come across as racist or not.
Okay, I'd like to see how blacks, or anyone for that matter, can be harmed by online racism.

And, I was asking if you thought my comments in this thread led you to believe I was racist.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:11 PM

Of course you do. You want me punished by having my mod powers taken away.
I wouldn't be disappointed if it happened but, I don't lose sleep over it.

Psssst. Everyone already knew except you.
You're proud of being a race and homophobe baiter?

But please, keep whining. It's entertaining.
Well, you just keep on truckin' dude.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 11:12 PM

Okay, I'd like to see how blacks, or anyone for that matter, can be harmed by online racism.Do you believe that anyone can be harmed by online racism, Yonivore?

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:14 PM

Do you believe that anyone can be harmed by online racism, Yonivore?
No, harm is a physical manifestation. How can anyone be deprived of life, liberty, or property by what someone says on the internet?

I do believe people can be incited to do harm by online racism. But, only people who were already racist.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 11:16 PM

No, harm is a physical manifestation. How can anyone be deprived of life, liberty, or property by what someone says on the internet?So why are you being such a twat about the baiting?

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:24 PM

So why are you being such a twat about the baiting?
Well, because such things are manifested in the real world by people such as Jesse Jackson and I was demonstrating how the dynamic works.

You can't cause any harm in here. Jesse Jackson does in the real world...in the same way. I was merely using you to illustrate the mechanism in the context of a discussion of real world events.

And, finally, I think you ruin the SpursTalk experience for many people. It's not harm, I can alway just leave and not come back, as can Buck Rogers and anyone else that thinks you're an insufferable asshole. I don't fear that your race or homophobe baiting, in here, is causing any harm.

I'd like to be able to put you on ignore, but I can't. I've debated leaving and not coming back and will probably spend less time here than I used to, so, hey -- if you see that as some kind of victory. Oh well, color me defeated.

You're tiresome and now that you've admitted that you're only in it to piss people off and not to have any serious discussion of the issues, I'm even less inclined to waste my time on you. Unfortunately, you come in and dominate a thread with your antics; making it hard to ignore -- without the ignore feature.

ponky

02-14-2007, 11:31 PM

Okay, I'd like to see how blacks, or anyone for that matter, can be harmed by online racism.

And, I was asking if you thought my comments in this thread led you to believe I was racist.

Ok, it's halftime. The racist comments themselves are harmless, just like your ignorance, analyzed in a vacuum, is harmless. What's your point? You said racism was less prevalent, I pointed out that it was not and now you're ignoring your original argument with some weak retort that it's harmless? It's still racism and it's still prevalent which is all that I was responding to with regards to your ignorant post; that it's latent is besides the point.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 11:32 PM

You can't cause any harm in here.So therefore, you're whining about it for no reason.
I don't fear that your race or homophobe baiting, in here, is causing any harm.Yet you want me gone because of it. Or you don't. You never can make up your mind about it.
I'd like to be able to put you on ignore, but I can't.I asked you point blank if you wanted me to make a different screen name you could put on ignore and you pussed out. You wither when you are put on the spot, and that is one reason I will always consider you a coward.
I've debated leaving and not coming back and will probably spend less time here than I used to, so, hey -- if you see that as some kind of victory. Oh well, color me defeated.Nah, it just reinforces my opinion of your cowardice.
You're tiresome and now that you've admitted that you're only in it to piss people off and not to have any serious discussion of the issuesNow you are just lying. I never said I am ONLY in it to piss people off. Just something to do when a guy like Buck sticks his nose in with his usual ignorance.

You are now a liar and a coward.

ponky

02-14-2007, 11:36 PM

Well, because such things are manifested in the real world by people such as Jesse Jackson and I was demonstrating how the dynamic works.

thanks, you just made my argument for me about the latent racists who talk shit online...the decisions they make in real life with those same racist thoughts are manifested offline in political choices, in where they choose to live, where they send their kids to school, etc etc etc.

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:39 PM

So therefore, you're whining about it for no reason.
Okay, whatever get's you through the night. I'm comfortable with my behavior in this thread and I don't perceive it as whining.

Yet you want me gone because of it. Or you don't. You never can make up your mind about it.
I don't care if you leave, I said I'd like be able to put you on ignore.

I asked you point blank if you wanted me to make a different screen name you could put on ignore and you pussed out. You wither when you are put on the spot, and that is one reason I will always consider you a coward.
Okay, do it. I won't "puss" out this time.

Nah, it just reinforces my opinion of your cowardice.
You have weird definitions for words. First, whining and now cowardice? How have I demonstrated any cowardice?

Now you are just lying. I never said I am ONLY in it to piss people off. Just something to do when a guy like Buck sticks his nose in with his usual ignorance.

You are now a liar and a coward.
You've never seriously debated any issue with me without devolving to epithets and provocation.

Hey, back on the topic of this thread. Go read this thread in a "black" forum and tell me if you think they're racist.

By the way, I'm not offended by their posts and I don't think they cause any harm. I just think if a white person talked this way about black people in an online forum, they'd be tagged a racist and you'd be baiting them.

http://www.topix.net/forum/afam/TLSO8CVSR5IQM5SRB

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:41 PM

thanks, you just made my argument for me about the latent racists who talk shit online...the decisions they make in real life with those same racist thoughts are manifested offline in political choices, in where they choose to live, where they send their kids to school, etc etc etc.
You don't think Jesse Jackson is a race-baiter? C'mon, it's how he makes his fucking living.

01Snake

02-14-2007, 11:47 PM

I'm homophobic too!

Signed,
Tim Hardaway

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 11:48 PM

Okay, do it. I won't "puss" out this time.:lmao You had your chance then. I told you.
You have weird definitions for words. First, whining and now cowardice? How have I demonstrated any cowardice?Hey, you're comfortable with your cowardice. I am also comfortable with your cowardice.
You've never seriously debated any issue with me without devolving to epithets and provocation.And you just lied in this thread, liar. Why should I treat you with any respect if you continue to lie like you just did?
By the way, I'm not offended by their posts and I don't think they cause any harm. I just think if a white person talked this way about black people in an online forum, they'd be tagged a racist and you'd be baiting them.And?

Yonivore

02-14-2007, 11:55 PM

:lmao You had your chance then. I told you.
Why was it a time-sensitive offer?

Hey, you're comfortable with your cowardice. I am also comfortable with your cowardice.
Do you understand what cowardice is? Exactly what should I be doing that I am not doing or what should I not be doing that I am doing in order to avoid an unpleasant consequence?

And you just lied in this thread, liar. Why should I treat you with any respect if you continue to lie like you just did?
What lie? That you're an insufferable prick in here has pretty much been my exlusive experience with you. Now you don't know the definition of lying. But, we already knew that from all the "Bush lied" posts.

And?
I asked if you thought they were being racist. Why are there "black" forums anyway? A "white" forum would immediately be condemned as racist. Who's really trying to be the exclusive race here? How come Chris Rock gets to stand up and call me whitey, cracker, and honkie but I can't call him ######, negro, or colored?

I think these are legitimate questions.

ChumpDumper

02-15-2007, 12:02 AM

Why was it a time-sensitive offer?Because I said so. If you don't want to read my posts, then don't. Scroll.
Do you understand what cowardice is? Exactly what should I be doing that I am not doing or what should I not be doing that I am doing in order to avoid an unpleasant consequence?It's not an unpleasant consequence, it's your state of being.
What lie? That you're an insufferable prick in here has pretty much been my exlusive experience with you. Now you don't know the definition of lying. But, we already knew that from all the "Bush lied" posts.Now you are compounding it by saying I made those "Bush Lied" posts. Pretty funny. I already pointed out your lies, you lying coward.
I asked if you thought they were being racist. Why are there "black" forums anyway? A "white" forum would immediately be condemned as racist. Who's really trying to be the exclusive race here? How come Chris Rock gets to stand up and call me whitey, cracker, and honkie but I can't call him ######, negro, or colored?

I think these are legitimate questions.Chris Rock called you honky? Personally? You don't sound like the type that would pay to see his show. Are you really offended when you are called whitey, cracker or honky? Does it make you want to use those other words in retaliation?

NorCal510

02-15-2007, 12:03 AM

Because I said so. If you don't want to read my posts, then don't. Scroll.It's not an unpleasant consequence, it's your state of being.Now you are compounding it by saying I made those "Bush Lied" posts. Pretty funny.Chris Rock called you honky? Personally? You don't sound like the type that would pay to see his show. Are you really offended when you are called whitey, cracker or honky? Does it make you want to use those other words in retaliation?
everything u said i disagree

ChumpDumper

02-15-2007, 12:04 AM

everything u said i disagreeShut up, whitey.

Yonivore

02-15-2007, 12:13 AM

Because I said so. If you don't want to read my posts, then don't. Scroll.
Okay.

It's not an unpleasant consequence, it's your state of being.
And how do you judge my state of being as being one of cowardice without demonstrating where I've been a coward?

Now you are compounding it by saying I made those "Bush Lied" posts. Pretty funny. I already pointed out your lies, you lying coward.
You've never called President Bush a liar? I find that hard to believe.

Chris Rock called you honky? Personally? You don't sound like the type that would pay to see his show. Are you really offended when you are called whitey, cracker or honky? Does it make you want to use those other words in retaliation?
I think he's funny as hell. And, no, I'm not offended and no, I don't feel compelled to use perjorative words for black people.

ChumpDumper

02-15-2007, 12:19 AM

And how do you judge my state of being as being one of cowardice without demonstrating where I've been a coward?Declaring a thread dead because you can't find a link? Cowardice. Not giving a straight answer when asked point blank if you want me to make a new screen name? Cowardice.
You've never called President Bush a liar? I find that hard to believe.Well "all those Bush lied posts" must be fresh on your mind. Tell me what I said.
I think he's funny as hell. And, no, I'm not offended and no, I don't feel compelled to use perjorative words for black people.Then why are you whining about it? "Why am I not allowed to do something I don't want to do?" What a waste of time.

Yonivore

02-15-2007, 12:29 AM

Master baiter, you get a year younger with every post.

JoeChalupa

02-16-2007, 11:16 PM

Go Obama Go!!

Nbadan

02-16-2007, 11:19 PM

Go Obama Go!!

Bama needs a snowy-white, christian running-mate. I suggest he get on Wesley Clark's ticket.

IceColdBrewski

02-16-2007, 11:27 PM

Bama needs a snowy-white, christian running-mate.

No, he needs a second page on his resume.

Nbadan

02-16-2007, 11:32 PM

No, he needs a second page on his resume.

Dubya's resume was thinner, especially on foreign policy, plus Obama has constitutional law experience. I'll take that over Dubya's Harvard MBA anyday.

PixelPusher

02-17-2007, 01:21 AM

No, he needs a second page on his resume.
The longer he serves in the Senate, the less likely he is to be elected president. Senators with long voting records don't fare well in presidential elections.

Yonivore

02-17-2007, 09:14 AM

The longer he serves in the Senate, the less likely he is to be elected president. Senators with long voting records don't fare well in presidential elections.
The more he talks, the less likely he is to be elected president. Here's hoping he doesn't go down in flames before pushing Hillary out in the primary.

And, by the way, he already has one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate...just in his limited time there.

clambake

02-17-2007, 11:23 AM

So, in his case, liberal means "got it right".

Yonivore

02-17-2007, 12:00 PM

So, in his case, liberal means "got it right".
For you, I'm sure it does.

ponky

02-17-2007, 01:09 PM

Dubya's resume was thinner, especially on foreign policy, plus Obama has constitutional law experience. I'll take that over Dubya's Harvard MBA anyday.

Uh, I'll take Obama over THIS p.o.s. ANYDAY!!!

http://www.solidsender.com/thanksforflushingmyfuturedownthetoilet/news/MORON.jpg

Obama in 08!

gtownspur

02-17-2007, 01:42 PM

Uh, I'll take Obama over THIS p.o.s. ANYDAY!!!

http://www.solidsender.com/thanksforflushingmyfuturedownthetoilet/news/MORON.jpg

Obama in 08!

Oh, oh, bring out the one where he's reading "My Pet Goat" to little kids. :rolleyes

ponky

02-17-2007, 06:57 PM

Oh, oh, bring out the one where he's reading "My Pet Goat" to little kids. :rolleyes

nah, that's about as boring as pointing out race card usage like it should never be used because we live in such a melting pot...i'm not defending mckinney, maybe she was crazy, they come in all colors

http://www.artsjournal.com/herman/archives/bullshit%20protector.jpg

Yonivore

02-17-2007, 10:56 PM

Barak Obama Friday (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-16-obama-sc_x.htm?csp=34):

Presidential hopeful Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) told thousands of cheering supporters Friday night that seeing such a racially diverse crowd in the shadow of the South Carolina statehouse would have surprised people a generation ago.

"Twenty years ago, nobody would have believed this crowd in South Carolina," he said of the racially mixed group.
Twenty years ago... Jesse Jackson (http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=687) won the South Carolina democratic primary ... along with 10 other states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson#1988-1989_Election).

Barak then proceeded to give a history lessen to the crowd.

You know, this is yet another illustration of how those who would perpetuate racial division for political gain haven't been paying attention -- or worse, believe their audience hasn't been paying attention -- to the gains made and therefore, can squeeze more guilt out of the "victimization" of black America.

ChumpDumper

02-18-2007, 05:22 AM

Everything is perfect.

ponky

02-18-2007, 02:01 PM

Barak Obama Friday (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-16-obama-sc_x.htm?csp=34):

Twenty years ago... Jesse Jackson (http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=687) won the South Carolina democratic primary ... along with 10 other states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson#1988-1989_Election).

Barak then proceeded to give a history lessen to the crowd.

You know, this is yet another illustration of how those who would perpetuate racial division for political gain haven't been paying attention -- or worse, believe their audience hasn't been paying attention -- to the gains made and therefore, can squeeze more guilt out of the "victimization" of black America.

It's better than using the brownies in your family and fumbling around with a couple of words of Spanish to try and get the latino vote.

Anyway, 1984 was an exception because blacks in SC came out in full force to vote for their hometown boy, Jackson. That blacks in SC finally had someone to come out in numbers and vote for doesn't mean that whites voted for him in large numbers in SC. It is a misconception and a spin on the facts to argue that because JJ won the DPP in SC 20 years ago that this is evidence that blacks and whites were holding hands at that time in that state. I can get these cases for you from Lexis-Nexis later should you wish to see why your bashing just doesn't hold up...the following is taken from ACLU docs.

Racially Polarized Voting in South Carolina: 1984-2004
The three-judge court in Burton v. Sheheen, decided in 1992, relied upon the stipulation of the parties "that since 1984 there is evidence of racially polarized voting in South Carolina."(14) A subsequent three-judge court in Smith v. Beasley, decided in 1996, found that "[i]n South Carolina, voting has been, and still is, polarized by race. This voting pattern is general throughout the state."(15) In Colleton County Council v. McConnell, decided in 2002, the three-judge court made similar findings: "[v]oting in South Carolina continues to be racially polarized to a very high degree in all regions of the state and in both primary and general elections."(16) In 2004, the court of appeals affirmed the finding of a district court in South Carolina "that voting in Charleston County Council elections is severely and characteristically polarized along racial lines."(17)

gtownspur

02-20-2007, 02:57 AM

nah, that's about as boring as pointing out race card usage like it should never be used because we live in such a melting pot...i'm not defending mckinney, maybe she was crazy, they come in all colors

http://www.artsjournal.com/herman/archives/bullshit%20protector.jpg

Walt whitman would say we live in a melting pot. So go back to your Public Enemy tapes.

boutons_

02-20-2007, 04:30 AM

"can squeeze more guilt out of the "victimization" of black America."

The Repugs, the party of racists, have made racism a central plank of their political platform for 30+ years, as soon as southern white trash got a few nickels in their overalls and figured they'd upgrade themselves from the "have-not Dems to the "have" Repugs.

While the story is well known recently that blacks are not unanimously for/againsts Obama just be he is black, it is also plainly obvious that the primary msg of the Repugs on Obama will be not to support Obama, to slime Obama strictly because he is half black.

The entire Repug "entitlements" argument is purely a code for racism.

The secondary Repug slime on Obama will be that he has some Muslim background, the implication is that, since in simplistic, knee-jerk sheeple/rabble-think "Muslim = terrorist", he supports terrorists against the USA, and that in fact Osama bin Obama IS a terrorist.

Yoni likes to slime all blacks as fake victims (as if racism weren't still rampant) while ignoring how corps, farmers, super-rich, oilicos are self-proclaimed "victims" of the federal govt, of the weather, of the cost finding oil, of the IRS, etc in need of, and perennially getting, 100s of $Bs in tax-breaks/cuts, special treatment, subsidies, tariff protections, etc.

ponky

02-22-2007, 03:57 AM

Walt whitman would say we live in a melting pot. So go back to your Public Enemy tapes.

it's no surprise that a guy who was born and bred in and around nyc would call it a melting pot. having lived in nyc myself, it's probably the closest thing to a "melting pot" that we have in the u.s.

also, it's no surprise that a guy with homosexual proclivities would want so desperately for america to embrace and accept everyone

doesn't mean that america is a melting pot, just because one inspirational and hopeful optimist wanted it to be so and just because nyc may be one of the few melting pots here in america

public enemy tapes? uh, oh-kay, not sure what this has to do with walt whitman other than that they're both from the same area of ny...unless you're just reaching for sarcasm, in which case, weak

Nbadan

02-23-2007, 03:19 AM

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0702/obama_clinton0222.jpg

Cat got your tongue?

Peter

02-23-2007, 03:23 AM

Obama. He's black and he speaks well.

Yonivore

02-23-2007, 01:10 PM

Obama. He's black and he speaks well.
Don't forget...he's clean too.

xrayzebra

02-23-2007, 04:05 PM

Guess old boutons is in Austin today. His favorite person is there. Mr. Clean. But of course he may not be black enough for some.

Nbadan

02-23-2007, 04:44 PM

It's gonna take something big to slow down the Obama train. Hillary has the dirty tricks machinery to 'dig up the dirt'......I think we're in for quite a ride....

Nbadan

02-24-2007, 02:05 AM

Slam dunk Obama!

http://www.kiyoshimartinez.com/images/obamasuper.jpg

Obama Ridicules Cheney's Iraq Comments
By KELLEY SHANNON
The Associated Press
Friday, February 23, 2007; 6:39 PM

AUSTIN, Texas -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama ridiculed Vice President Dick Cheney on Friday for saying Britain's decision to pull troops from Iraq is a good sign that fits with the strategy for stabilizing the country.

Obama, speaking at a massive outdoor rally in Austin, Texas, said British Prime Minister Tony Blair's decision this week to withdraw 1,600 troops is a recognition that Iraq's problems can't be solved militarily.

"Now if Tony Blair can understand that, then why can't George Bush and Dick Cheney understand that?" Obama asked thousands of supporters who gathered in the rain to hear him. "In fact, Dick Cheney said this is all part of the plan (and) it was a good thing that Tony Blair was withdrawing, even as the administration is preparing to put 20,000 more of our young men and women in.

"Now, keep in mind, this is the same guy that said we'd be greeted as liberators, the same guy that said that we're in the last throes. I'm sure he forecast sun today," Obama said to laughter from supporters holding campaign signs over their heads to keep dry. "When Dick Cheney says it's a good thing, you know that you've probably got some big problems."

Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/23/AR2007022300658.html)

ponky

02-24-2007, 02:23 AM

very nice turnout and speech today by obama...of course, blair is more worried about salvaging what little opp he may have to put a positive spin on his legacy than *getting it right* but whatever, bush is a rabid dog when it comes to the war in the middle east. i enjoyed the story he recounted about dick durbin

as a side note, i really enjoyed the band from 'nawlins who relocated to austin, if anyone went and caught their name, please let me know, i'd like to go hear them in person

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 02:24 AM

it's no surprise that a guy who was born and bred in and around nyc would call it a melting pot. having lived in nyc myself, it's probably the closest thing to a "melting pot" that we have in the u.s.

also, it's no surprise that a guy with homosexual proclivities would want so desperately for america to embrace and accept everyone

doesn't mean that america is a melting pot, just because one inspirational and hopeful optimist wanted it to be so and just because nyc may be one of the few melting pots here in america

public enemy tapes? uh, oh-kay, not sure what this has to do with walt whitman other than that they're both from the same area of ny...unless you're just reaching for sarcasm, in which case, weak

I guess you're waiting for the day when we all have olive skin and brown eyes and we're all both biracial -gay universalist -ethnic- bohemians, purchasing organic oats and veggies from the local co-op, and one can't go outside without some douche in a rasta beanie doing tai chi in a loin cloth and some monks banging on tambourines while the streets are littered with bio friendly mopeds and esspresso shops.

Wait,...that sounds like San Franscisco you dumb prick.

Maybe if you want to go try some authentic mexican food, you should go to Sweden.

And if you want to listen to Indian classical music, go to Venezuela.

And while you're there, pick up some pho noodles in Somalia.

Or have bratwurst in Guadalajara.

What the fuck have you been smoking.

America is the melting pot of the world.

Go to any rural town in america and you'll see along with regional americana culture, creole, spanish, and mexican culture, with a little splash of south east asia(depending how far that town is close to a sea port).

What do they have in germany as minorities? Turks! whooptee goddamn do.

We have that and every nationality you can think of.

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 02:27 AM

It's gonna take something big to slow down the Obama train. Hillary has the dirty tricks machinery to 'dig up the dirt'......I think we're in for quite a ride....

You mean CNN.

ponky

02-24-2007, 02:51 AM

I guess you're waiting for the day when we all have olive skin and brown eyes and we're all both biracial -gay universalist -ethnic- bohemians, purchasing organic oats and veggies from the local co-op, and one can't go outside without some douche in a rasta beanie doing tai chi in a loin cloth and some monks banging on tambourines while the streets are littered with bio friendly mopeds and esspresso shops.

Wait,...that sounds like San Franscisco you dumb prick.

Maybe if you want to go try some authentic mexican food, you should go to Sweden.

And if you want to listen to Indian classical music, go to Venezuela.

And while you're there, pick up some pho noodles in Somalia.

Or have bratwurst in Guadalajara.

What the fuck have you been smoking.

America is the melting pot of the world.

Go to any rural town in america and you'll see along with regional americana culture, creole, spanish, and mexican culture, with a little splash of south east asia(depending how far that town is close to a sea port).

What do they have in germany as minorities? Turks! whooptee goddamn do.

We have that and every nationality you can think of.

first off, i'm the furthest thing from a hippy and have no interest in california so calm the fuck down already and stop using such silly generalizations as conservatives are so fond of doing. not everybody is fortunate enough to live in metropolitan areas of the u.s. where all the diverse things you mentioned exist...leave these areas and travel to places like kansas, tennessee, alabama and all those food examples you mentioned fly out the window. there certainly are pockets of diversity in all of these places but they are usually stressed communities where the non-white immigrants don't interact and interweave within the white community. even in nyc, there are people and parts of little odessa, chinatown, little bombay and curry hill that live isolated from the rest of society. just go and look at the idiot trying to make an argument about obama's speech in south carolina. completely talking out of his ass without knowledge of the facts.

just because we have every nationality doesn't mean that this country is a melting pot, we don't coexist without serious problems. if this was the case we wouldn't have people trying to redistrict texas to make things more favorable for the largely white republican base to the exclusion of all the darkies and dems. last time i checked *spanish* culture was not a huge part of american society...you don't even know the right term and yet we live in a melting pot because all mexican-looking people whether they're from honduras, peru or mexico must be the same, *spanish*. mexicans may be melting in san antonio which is like the mexican capital of texas but it's ridiculous to talk about rural america where all the mexicans are busy picking fruit, cutting meat and building houses as if they interact on a social level with the rest of that community.

anyway, way to understand whitman, you should really learn more about his background if you're going to try and use his ideas as support for your argument.

one last thing. i see you have a guinness symbol as your avatar. when i was in dublin, i had italian food, indian food and thai food along with the traditional irish food...all big metropolitan cities tend to have some degree of diversity, doesn't mean they're all getting along holding hands.

ChumpDumper

02-24-2007, 03:35 AM

You mean CNN.You mean Insight magazine.

BIG IRISH

02-24-2007, 06:09 AM

Obama gets warm welcome in Austin

Web Posted: 02/24/2007 01:28 AM CST

R.G. Ratcliffe
Austin Bureau

AUSTIN — About 20,000 mostly young people traveled from across Texas to stand on the shores of Austin's Town Lake on Friday and hear Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama vow to end the war in Iraq.
"We are actually less safe than we were before this war started," Obama told the crowd, whose size made it probably the biggest political rally in Texas since President Reagan spoke at the same spot in his 1984 re-election campaign.

People cheered for various Texas cities as Cyril Neville with the warm-up band called out their names.

"Look at this! Unbelievable," said Obama, in a dark suit and white shirt, sans tie. "I have not seen a crowd like this. I am overwhelmed, Austin, I am overwhelmed."

Obama is in the leading pack in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, challenging perceived front-runner U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

He never mentioned Clinton by name, but twice took digs at her.

Obama said even in 2002, before he became a U.S. senator, he opposed giving President Bush the authority to wage war in Iraq. Clinton and fellow presidential hopeful John Edwards voted for that resolution in the Senate, but Edwards has since said he was wrong and apologized.

Obama also urged crowd members to donate $5 or $10 to his campaign because "I don't want to raise money in Hollywood all the time. I'd rather raise it right here in Austin."

Clinton's campaign this week demanded Obama apologize after Hollywood mogul David Geffen threw a $1 million fund-raiser for Obama and told a New York Times columnist that former President Bill Clinton is a "reckless guy" and predicted his wife's campaign would be "very unpleasant."

The heart of Obama's 40-minute speech reflected opposition to the Iraq war, which he said is making the terrorist organization al-Qaida stronger while Afghanistan falls farther toward chaos.

He called it a shame that America spends more on health care than any country in the world and still has 46 million people without health insurance.

University of Texas political scientist Bruce Buchanan said a big crowd for Obama in a Republican state like Texas is going to "capture some attention" nationally. But it's too early to tell whether either Obama or Clinton will be the Democratic nominee, he said.

"Obama has set himself up to be kind of a new candidate practicing a new politics," Democratic consultant Kelly Fero said.

Several of the young people in the crowd said it was their first political rally, though they had voted in 2004.

Recent University of Texas at Austin graduate Jocelyn Schutte, 21, said she was there because of "the state of our nation and the fact that Barack Obama is the only one offering any hope."

"I kind of like Obama. He's got a lot of fresh ideas. He's got leadership quality," said David Garcia of Corpus Christi, attending with his wife, Nelda, because their son, Jacob, was a volunteer for the candidate.

Israel Anderson of Austin, 60, a retired Army colonel, said he met Obama four years ago and the candidate reminds him of another presidential contender.

"He's as exciting as JFK was," Anderson said, referring to John F. Kennedy's 1960 campaign.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/stories/MYSA022407.04B.NZ.State.obama_texas.10a736e.html

Eat it up Chumps

Spam

02-24-2007, 10:55 AM

I like this Obama dude.

Spam

02-24-2007, 10:57 AM

I remember Yoniwhore thought the repugnants would hold the House and Senate too. :lmao

01Snake

02-24-2007, 11:37 AM

Wait Croutons! The Repugs are the racist party? Then why in the hell has GW appointed so many minorities within his administration? Why is GW not closing the border and kicking all the illegals out?

You really are an IDIOT!

01Snake

02-24-2007, 11:41 AM

University of Texas political scientist Bruce Buchanan said a big crowd for Obama in a Republican state like Texas is going to "capture some attention" nationally. But it's too early to tell whether either Obama or Clinton will be the Democratic nominee, he said.

WOW! He drew a large crowd in Austin TX! Is there a more liberal city in the state? The city slogan is Keep Austin Weird for christ sake :lol

clambake

02-24-2007, 11:48 AM

It takes time for intelligence to leak outside of Austin city limits.

Back to your banjo lessons.

johnsmith

02-24-2007, 11:57 AM

It takes time for intelligence to leak outside of Austin city limits.

Back to your banjo lessons.

So are you saying that the only intelligence in the state of Texas is in Austin?

01Snake

02-24-2007, 12:00 PM

Back to your banjo lessons.

Nah. Its a nice day so I think I'll go out and help kill the environment in my 8 mpg car.

mookie2001

02-24-2007, 12:35 PM

The city slogan is Keep Austin Weird for christ sake :lol you mean 90s california techie bussinesassociation slogan is keep austin weird

I dont know how anyone can plausably support Obama right now, what has he ever done?, besides vote against the war, he has never said anything, maybe he said something at the rally i wasnt there, but hes never said anything about policies or the problems we have as a country right now.

I realize the nature of a campaign a year and a half before the election is to be vanilla, but obama is like a unic
can 20 thousansd people just chodeemplode for a african american pres that bad?

mookie2001

02-24-2007, 12:41 PM

why in the hell has GW appointed so many minorities within his administration? Why is GW not closing the border and kicking all the illegals out?
because they cant get elected as Republicans and GW wants people to think hispanics are neocons

because he is a globalist and for a north american union, he needs a clear lower class to be a bigger neocon

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 12:53 PM

because they cant get elected as Republicans and GW wants people to think hispanics are neocons

because he is a globalist and for a north american union, he needs a clear lower class to be a bigger neocon

So where does that put you in the immigration debate?

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 01:17 PM

first off, i'm the furthest thing from a hippy and have no interest in california so calm the fuck down already and stop using such silly generalizations as conservatives are so fond of doing. not everybody is fortunate enough to live in metropolitan areas of the u.s. where all the diverse things you mentioned exist...leave these areas and travel to places like kansas, tennessee, alabama and all those food examples you mentioned fly out the window. there certainly are pockets of diversity in all of these places but they are usually stressed communities where the non-white immigrants don't interact and interweave within the white community. even in nyc, there are people and parts of little odessa, chinatown, little bombay and curry hill that live isolated from the rest of society. just go and look at the idiot trying to make an argument about obama's speech in south carolina. completely talking out of his ass without knowledge of the facts.

You're again illustrating the ignorance being spewed by people who read Michael Moore's classist fiction novels.

First of they call the southwest, the southwest for one reason. It has it's own distinct culture seperate from the NE and South east.

The Cowboy culture is deeply imbedded in Spanish vacquero trade, the mission style architecture prevelant in the SW like in some parts of Texas to California come from spanish architecture.

Texas has been under many colonial powers as so has Louisianna and California along with Colorado and NM.

Infact, if you'd paid attention there has been white interaction in the suburbs with affluent asian and indian people. California has thriving Jewish, Chineese, Vietnamese cultures.

Jazz was started in NO because of the interaction with Creoles, Creoles of Color, and Slaves.

Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana have their own culture as well. Mixing Scandinavians, Dutch, Irish and German.

To an idiot like you, A jewish person and an american of british colonial person is the same.

just because we have every nationality doesn't mean that this country is a melting pot, we don't coexist without serious problems. if this was the case we wouldn't have people trying to redistrict texas to make things more favorable for the largely white republican base to the exclusion of all the darkies and dems. last time i checked *spanish* culture was not a huge part of american society...you don't even know the right term and yet we live in a melting pot because all mexican-looking people whether they're from honduras, peru or mexico must be the same, *spanish*. mexicans may be melting in san antonio which is like the mexican capital of texas but it's ridiculous to talk about rural america where all the mexicans are busy picking fruit, cutting meat and building houses as if they interact on a social level with the rest of that community.

I'm sorry, My parents are 1st generation americans, former Mexican Nationals.
And to say that there is no spanish culture in that again illustrates your ignorance. Not only is the language spanish, But the customs are also spanish fused along with regional ethnic indian of whatever latin american country.

And your cheap attack at recent gerrymandering is ignorant as usual. The Democrats gerrymandered long before the republicans rose to prominence. The fact is that both parties try to regain power by those means. And the districts before the new alignment favored the democrats. Texas is 70% republican, yet you had a majority democrat texas senate for a while.

And if you want the african americans to not be discarded off to heavily democrat districts, how bout changing the ideology of sucking on Federal titty for entitlements, and every once in a while vote republican.

Why do you think the Mexican's get pandered more than the african american vote? Becuase they're not as partisan as a whole to one particular party.
Same with the Catholic vote.

It's idiotic to just rely on one political party for your salvation. That creates the plantation system all over again. Relying on white liberal elites to come to the rescue.

anyway, way to understand whitman, you should really learn more about his background if you're going to try and use his ideas as support for your argument.

one last thing. i see you have a guinness symbol as your avatar. when i was in dublin, i had italian food, indian food and thai food along with the traditional irish food...all big metropolitan cities tend to have some degree of diversity, doesn't mean they're all getting along holding hands.

Show me a country who has a 25% african descent population along with another 27% ethnic population that is a utopia. Otherwise you're full of shit.

We are the melting pot of the world.

Remember about the car burnings in France, that destroyed the myth of European tolerance.

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 01:20 PM

You mean Insight magazine.

You mean Hillary buyin off Black votes and having black politicians say that Obama can't win becuase he's black.

Don't act as if Hillary fights with kitchen mitts.

Yonivore

02-24-2007, 01:25 PM

You mean Hillary buyin off Black votes and having black politicians say that Obama can't win becuase he's black.

Don't act as if Hillary fights with kitchen mitts.
Reminds me. I wonder if she's baked any cookies this political season.

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 01:30 PM

Reminds me. I wonder if she's baked any cookies this political season.

She only likes cookies that aren't burnt or recieving David geffen money.

Rofl rofl, neocon, rofl rofl.

ponky

02-24-2007, 02:04 PM

g-townspurs, i'm not going to address all that false historical nonsense you just wrote, i'm half-mexican, half-italian and grew up in the southwest so thanks but no thanks for the history lesson...there's a lot more to it than the gloss you just wrote.

jewish and brits don't look the same to me...i went to a school in nyc that was 80% jewish so i know the difference but thanks for assuming that i see all white people as being alike.

why do i think the mexicans get pandered to more than blacks? because they are the fastest growing population in the u.s., because of the whole southwest mystique that we all just get along and because most mexicans will ignorantly jump on the bandwagon when a candidate speaks some spanish or has some brown ones in their family or acts like a good old boy. am i calling out my own people? hell yes, there is a history of pandering to mexicans in the southwest going back to the early 20th century and it's not because we all get along.

car burnings in france? i also remember south central l.a. after rodney king, the vietnamese/white hunting accidents in wisconsin and murders from both sides, the japanese internment, the baseball bats taken to mexican families living in georgia, the arab-american store owner killed in arizona after 9/11 not to mention all the arab-american harassment after 9/11...you're right, there is a lot of diversity in all this violence...all violence that occurred after whitman's time.

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 02:12 PM

i'm not going to address all that nonsense you just wrote, i'm half-mexican, half-italian and grew up in the southwest so thanks but no thanks for the history lesson...there's a lot more to it than the gloss you just wrote.

haha, no jewish and brits don't look the same to me...i went to a school in nyc that was 80% jewish so i know the difference but thanks for assuming that i see all white people as being alike.

why do i think the mexicans get pandered to more than blacks? because they are the fastest growing population in the u.s., because of the whole southwest mystique that we all just get along and because most mexicans will ignorantly jump on the bandwagon when a candidate speaks some spanish or has some brown ones in their family or acts like a good old boy. am i calling out my own people? hell yes, there is a history of pandering to mexicans in the southwest going back to the early 20th century and it's not because we all get along.

car burnings in france? i also remember south central l.a. after rodney king, the vietnamese/white hunting accidents and murders from both sides, the japanese internment, the baseball bats taken to mexican families living in georgia, the arab-american store owner killed in arizona after 9/11 not to mention all the arab-american harassment after 9/11...you're right, there is a lot of diversity in all this violence!

Geezus christ, i'm sure every american want's to burn down blacks, and kill Hindu shop owners in AZ. (The guy was indian, not arab. Show's how much you know).

Did you know some guy in denmark was stabbed by an african immigrant.

That's it, Danish people are hillbillies too.

And about pandering to the SW, yeah it happened many a century before like you described it.

If by pandering you mean they took the land from the mexican families.

And, those poor oppressed blacks in La during the riots had so much compassion for their Korean counterparts, that they flamed their shops down and harrassed them.

And rodney king was not driving under the influence and was not harming any lives.

Infact, he was listening to bluegrass and reciting plato's republic when a bunch of appalachian montys with Jim Crow aspirations beat him down and linched him for looking at a lily white girl.

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 02:19 PM

According to ponky,

Until americans are able to watch Mandingo warrior porn on bio freindly city transit, and we have Lesbian Cardinals.

America is not a melting pot.

Yonivore

02-24-2007, 02:29 PM

According to ponky,

Until americans are able to watch Mandingo warrior porn on bio freindly city transit, and we have Lesbian Cardinals.

America is not a melting pot.
Mandingo warrior porn?

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 02:30 PM

Mandingo warrior porn?

Interracial porn.

ponky

02-24-2007, 02:33 PM

Geezus christ, i'm sure every american want's to burn down blacks, and kill Hindu shop owners in AZ. (The guy was indian, not arab. Show's how much you know).

Did you know some guy in denmark was stabbed by an african immigrant.

That's it, Danish people are hillbillies too.

And about pandering to the SW, yeah it happened many a century before like you described it.

If by pandering you mean they took the land from the mexican families.

And, those poor oppressed blacks in La during the riots had so much compassion for their Korean counterparts, that they flamed their shops down and harrassed them.

And rodney king was not driving under the influence and was not harming any lives.

Infact, he was listening to bluegrass and reciting plato's republic when a bunch of appalachian montys with Jim Crow aspirations beat him down and linched him for looking at a lily white girl.

Here we go, assuming more from what I wrote.

I don't believe I mentioned that Europe was without racial problems. Yes, I know all about the killing of the movie director, Theo Van Gogh. I know about the racial tensions in Franc, Barcelona, Ireland, Germany, blah blah blah. I never deigned to prop up Europe as the antipodal environment to the problems we have here in the U.S. when it comes to race and ethnicity.

Another assumption you made from something I never said? I never said racism was a one-way street here in the U.S., it certainly does go both ways and is part of the reason why we're not a melting pot.

You have strayed from your original point, which is that the U.S. was a melting pot. All I've attempted to argue is that the U.S. is not a melting pot. I made no mention about other countries and their problems as if this somehow negates our own problems. I made no mention about the fact that racism exists among many minorities here in the U.S. and about how I view different *white* people. These are all false assumptions you made based on a whole lot of nothing.

Anyway, I get bored easily talking to people who can't follow a logical argument, thanks for playing, I'm done for now.

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 02:40 PM

Here we go, assuming more from what I wrote.

I don't believe I mentioned that Europe was without racial problems. Yes, I know all about the killing of the movie director, Theo Van Gogh. I know about the racial tensions in Franc, Barcelona, Ireland, Germany, blah blah blah. I never deigned to prop up Europe as the antipodal environment to the problems we have here in the U.S. when it comes to race and ethnicity.

Another assumption you made from something I never said? I never said racism was a one-way street here in the U.S., it certainly does go both ways and is part of the reason why we're not a melting pot.

You have strayed from your original point, which is that the U.S. was a melting pot. All I've attempted to argue is that the U.S. is not a melting pot. I made no mention about other countries and their problems as if this somehow negates our own problems. I made no mention about the fact that racism exists among many minorities here in the U.S. and about how I view different *white* people. These are all false assumptions you made based on a whole lot of nothing.

Anyway, I get bored easily talking to people who can't follow a logical argument, thanks for playing, I'm done for now.

Thank you for proving that individuals on their own do stupid things, but didn't prove we're not a melting pot.

Mission accomplished.

Yonivore

02-24-2007, 02:48 PM

You have strayed from your original point, which is that the U.S. was a melting pot. All I've attempted to argue is that the U.S. is not a melting pot.
Okay, this begs a couple of questions.

Is there a country on the face of the planet that is more of a melting pot than is the United States of America?

What part of the American Experience, except for being President, is off limits to any person due to their nation of origin?

Finally, to what country do more people, from more countries, than any other country on the planet, legally immigrate every year?

Are there pockets of this country where immigrants (legal and illegal) fail to assimilate? Yep. But, that's the exception, not the rule.

gtownspur

02-24-2007, 02:49 PM

ponky

02-24-2007, 03:34 PM

Okay, this begs a couple of questions.

Is there a country on the face of the planet that is more of a melting pot than is the United States of America?

What part of the American Experience, except for being President, is off limits to any person due to their nation of origin?

Finally, to what country do more people, from more countries, than any other country on the planet, legally immigrate every year?

Are there pockets of this country where immigrants (legal and illegal) fail to assimilate? Yep. But, that's the exception, not the rule.

Sigh, ok, I'll respond to this once seeing as how you're not g-townspur and you do pose some good questions.

Here's how I view things. There are certainly more opporunities in the U.S. for upward economic mobility for the common joe than any other country and we do enjoy many freedoms than a lot of countries, particularly third-world countries and those with oppressive govts. However, the influx of immigrants coming here from those countries doesn't mean that we are a melting pot. While it is too early to tell (mostly because there is a discernible majority in the u.s.), all of these diverse immigrants are straining ethnic and racial relations and we are starting to see fractured communities and pockets of culture sprout up and existing alongside mainstream American culture. I'm not saying that a melting pot is not theoretically possible but it hasn't happened yet because you have to make adjustments for the second wave of immigrants that are coming here, those from latin america and asia. If you think the assimilation of these non-whites is an exception, you are greatly mistaken. Sure the opportunity is there to assimilate, but do they? You have to have blinders on to think that immigrants are assimilating just fine into the American way of life, whatever that means. Just take a look at something as simple as the makeup of congregations across the U.S. before you make up your mind about whether we are truly a melting pot. I won't deny that race and ethnic relations have improved over the last half century but we haven't arrived and the real test will be when the demographic shift occurs about 30-40 years from now and how latinos and asians will affect these relations.

Yonivore

02-24-2007, 03:43 PM

Sigh, ok, I'll respond to this once seeing as how you're not g-townspur and you do pose some good questions.

Here's how I view things. There are certainly more opporunities in the U.S. for upward economic mobility for the common joe than any other country and we do enjoy many freedoms than a lot of countries, particularly third-world countries and those with oppressive govts. However, the influx of immigrants coming here from those countries doesn't mean that we are a melting pot. While it is too early to tell (mostly because there is a discernible majority in the u.s.), all of these diverse immigrants are straining ethnic and racial relations and we are starting to see fractured communities and pockets of culture sprout up and existing alongside mainstream American culture. I'm not saying that a melting pot is not theoretically possible but it hasn't happened yet because you have to make adjustments for the second wave of immigrants that are coming here, those from latin america and asia. If you think the assimilation of these non-whites is an exception, you are greatly mistaken. Sure the opportunity is there to assimilate, but do they? You have to have blinders on to think that immigrants are assimilating just fine into the American way of life, whatever that means. Just take a look at something as simple as the makeup of congregations across the U.S. before you make up your mind about whether we are truly a melting pot. I won't deny that race and ethnic relations have improved over the last half century but we haven't arrived and the real test will be when the demographic shift occurs about 30-40 years from now and how latinos and asians will affect these relations.
You act as though the current influx if immigrants is the first time this country has dealt with such.

I dare say that it is precisely because this nation is so good at assimilating its immigrants that you fail to recognize its status as a melting pot.

Think Irish or Vietnamese as two standout examples.