Vince Young's in the pro bowl!

[tim_duncan_fan]

Yes!

[johnsmith]

Well, at least now we have proof that the Pro Bowl is meaningless and absolute fucking garbage.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Absolutely pathetic. I hope this isn't really true, and you're just trying to be funny.

[stretch]

where did you hear this from?

[johnsmith]

Check NFL.com, he's right there in the roster.

Pro Bowl is now complete garbage.

[johngateswhiteley]

Well, at least now we have proof that the Pro Bowl is meaningless and absolute fucking garbage.

exactly.

[Mr. Peabody]

He's going because Steve McNair stepped aside so Vince could go in his place.

[johnsmith]

He's going because Steve McNair stepped aside so Vince could go in his place.


There are still more deserving QB's then both McNair and Young. Pro Bowl is garbage.

[stretch]

well, how many other QBs declined to participate aside from McNair? im sure that Brady and Pennington, who are the only other deserving QBs over VY had to of declined participation as well if Young is in over them. we cant just assume that they took Young over Brady. im pretty sure Brady declined to play, because he had a hurt shoulder or something. and Pennington always finds a way to get hurt as well

[johnsmith]

well, how many other QBs declined to participate aside from McNair? im sure that Brady and Pennington, who are the only other deserving QBs over VY had to of declined participation as well if Young is in over them. we cant just assume that they took Young over Brady. im pretty sure Brady declined to play, because he had a hurt shoulder or something. and Pennington always finds a way to get hurt as well


Brady indeed declined. But let's take a look to see if Pennington was the only other one more deserving:

By QB rating:

Manning 101.0 - in the pro bowl
Huard 98.0 - snuffed
Palmer 93.9 - in the pro bowl
Rivers 92.0 - hurt
Brady 87.9 - declined
Losman 84.9 - snuffed
Pennington 82.6 - ????
McNair 82.5 - declined
Carr 82.1 - snuffed
Garrard 80.5 - snuffed
Roethlisberger 75.4 - snuffed
Frye 72.2 - snuffed
Plummer 68.8 - snuffed
Harrington 68.2 - snuffed
And finally, Vince Young at an astonishing, eye-popping, 66.fucking 7.

Pro Bowl is garbage.

[RealEstateDude]

Huard coulda got em in the bowl, possibly...

[Mr Dio]

Out of all the QBs ahead of VY in the ratings game, who won more games as a starting QB?
I just wondering, since no one here thinks a W is more important than a high rating.
For instance, what was MRI Pussy Leinart's QB rating and his W/L record as a starting QB?
How many TD and total yds of O did all those QBs have compared to VY? How many vet QBs did worse than VY?

Summation:
VY burned some people so bad in college that they can't get over it. All he does is continue to WIN. :lol

[johnsmith]

Out of all the QBs ahead of VY in the ratings game, who won more games as a starting QB?
I just wondering, since no one here thinks a W is more important than a high rating.
For instance, what was MRI Pussy Leinart's QB rating and his W/L record as a starting QB?
How many TD and total yds of O did all those QBs have compared to VY? How many vet QBs did worse than VY?

Summation:
VY burned some people so bad in college that they can't get over it. All he does is continue to WIN. :lol



Ah Christ, are you gonna make me look all this stuff up? Aw fuck it, give me a minute.

Oh, and I didn't have a problem with Young in college, I just started disliking the NFL version of him.

[johnsmith]

Out of all the QBs ahead of VY in the ratings game, who won more games as a starting QB?
I just wondering, since no one here thinks a W is more important than a high rating.
For instance, what was MRI Pussy Leinart's QB rating and his W/L record as a starting QB?
How many TD and total yds of O did all those QBs have compared to VY? How many vet QBs did worse than VY?

Summation:
VY burned some people so bad in college that they can't get over it. All he does is continue to WIN. :lol


Oh, and Leinart is in the NFC, why would we compare his numbers?

[johnsmith]

Out of all the QBs ahead of VY in the ratings game, who won more games as a starting QB?
I just wondering, since no one here thinks a W is more important than a high rating.
For instance, what was MRI Pussy Leinart's QB rating and his W/L record as a starting QB?
How many TD and total yds of O did all those QBs have compared to VY? How many vet QBs did worse than VY?

Summation:
VY burned some people so bad in college that they can't get over it. All he does is continue to WIN. :lol


Fuck it, too much work.


I will point out though that when Vince Young was winning games this season, he did so with very little pressure as the team didn't have any chance to make it to the playoffs. However, going into the final week of the season, when the pressure was on as there was a legitimate (yet outside) chance the Titans could make it, he went 15 of 36 with 2 picks and a 37.7 passer rating.


The pressure was just too much for him..............alright, I'm reaching on that statistic, but I still think this just proves that the Pro Bowl is garbage. There were better QB performances in the AFC that would have merited getting into the pro bowl before VY.



TAKE FAN VOTING OUT OF ALL STAR GAMES!!!!

[stretch]

Brady indeed declined. But let's take a look to see if Pennington was the only other one more deserving:

By QB rating:

Manning 101.0 - in the pro bowl
Huard 98.0 - snuffed
Palmer 93.9 - in the pro bowl
Rivers 92.0 - hurt
Brady 87.9 - declined
Losman 84.9 - snuffed
Pennington 82.6 - ????
McNair 82.5 - declined
Carr 82.1 - snuffed
Garrard 80.5 - snuffed
Roethlisberger 75.4 - snuffed
Frye 72.2 - snuffed
Plummer 68.8 - snuffed
Harrington 68.2 - snuffed
And finally, Vince Young at an astonishing, eye-popping, 66.fucking 7.

Pro Bowl is garbage.

after reading this list, and the fact that you think the QB rating alone is what gets players into the pro bowl shows your extreme lack of football knowledge. sure, his rating wasnt good, but he damn near led that team into the playoffs after the team started a whopping 0-5. to make it harder, the Titans are in the AFC, who is loaded with a lot of solid teams that can make the playoffs. if the Titans were in the NFC, they would have probably had a 10-6, or 11-5 record and easily made the playoffs. Vince Young led the Titans to nearly do what people that was absolutely impossible, no matter who the QB was. VY is FAR more valuable to his team than any of those other QBs you listed as being "snuffed". plenty of QB's can put up decent numbers, but it doesnt mean they are Pro Bowl material. like J.P. Losman, or David Carr. if you really think they are more deserving than VY, you are a fucking moron.

[stretch]

Out of all the QBs ahead of VY in the ratings game, who won more games as a starting QB?
I just wondering, since no one here thinks a W is more important than a high rating.
For instance, what was MRI Pussy Leinart's QB rating and his W/L record as a starting QB?
How many TD and total yds of O did all those QBs have compared to VY? How many vet QBs did worse than VY?

Summation:
VY burned some people so bad in college that they can't get over it. All he does is continue to WIN. :lol
agreed. its sad to see some people that consider themselves "knowledgable" fans, but dont realize that the most important thing for a QB to do is win games, and thus they lead themselves to think that David Carr is more deserving of a Pro Bowl birth than Vince Young. idiots...

[stretch]

Oh, and Leinart is in the NFC, why would we compare his numbers?
Since Leinart is in the NFC, he EASILY should have put up FAR better numbers than Vince Young, especially considering how shitty the NFC is, and all the offensive talent he has around him (Fitzgerald, Boldin, Edge, etc...) on the other hand, the Titans next best option to VY is Travis Henry, whom no one gives a shit about. however, despite those circumstances, he put up passing numbers that were SLIGHTLY better than VYs, but VY had far better running numbers, and most importantly, Leinart was not able to lead the Cardinals to wins, the way Vince Young did.

[stretch]

TAKE FAN VOTING OUT OF ALL STAR GAMES!!!!

i agree, but im sure coaches would have voted him in far before even considering voting for fucking JP Losman, David Carr, and Jake Plummer. you are truly delusional.

[johnsmith]

Stretch, when did you get so angry?

Really, I just don't like Vince Young. I think he's an arrogant jackass with absolutely no intelligence. So sure, I'm probably reaching by throwing out passer ratings but still, it helps me to sleep at night.

[johnsmith]

after reading this list, and the fact that you think the QB rating alone is what gets players into the pro bowl shows your extreme lack of football knowledge. sure, his rating wasnt good, but he damn near led that team into the playoffs after the team started a whopping 0-5. to make it harder, the Titans are in the AFC, who is loaded with a lot of solid teams that can make the playoffs. if the Titans were in the NFC, they would have probably had a 10-6, or 11-5 record and easily made the playoffs. Vince Young led the Titans to nearly do what people that was absolutely impossible, no matter who the QB was. VY is FAR more valuable to his team than any of those other QBs you listed as being "snuffed". plenty of QB's can put up decent numbers, but it doesnt mean they are Pro Bowl material. like J.P. Losman, or David Carr. if you really think they are more deserving than VY, you are a fucking moron.


Man, why all the hate?

[mardigan]

Fuck it, too much work.


I will point out though that when Vince Young was winning games this season, he did so with very little pressure as the team didn't have any chance to make it to the playoffs. However, going into the final week of the season, when the pressure was on as there was a legitimate (yet outside) chance the Titans could make it, he went 15 of 36 with 2 picks and a 37.7 passer rating.


The pressure was just too much for him..............alright, I'm reaching on that statistic, but I still think this just proves that the Pro Bowl is garbage. There were better QB performances in the AFC that would have merited getting into the pro bowl before VY.



TAKE FAN VOTING OUT OF ALL STAR GAMES!!!!
Usually I think you make good posts, and never really disagreed much with your posts but your kidding right? You realize fan voting in the Pro Bowl is only 1/3, the reason T.O., the leading vote getter for the Pro Bowl recievers, didnt get in. Dont blame this on the fans. Rivers was going to go, Brady declined, Roethlisburger had 23 picks, Pennington threw 5 more tds than Vince in 3 more starts, and when you add Vinces 7 rushing tds, the only guys that scored more are the 2 other guys there and the 2 that declined. And dont give me that Pro Bowl is garbage shit. I watched Peyton throwing balls to Chad Johnson, Andre Johnson, Wayne, Harrison, Gates and Gonzales, oh and LT coming out of the backfield, yeah, they really screwed that lineup up bad

[johnsmith]

Usually I think you make good posts, and never really disagreed much with your posts but your kidding right? You realize fan voting in the Pro Bowl is only 1/3, the reason T.O., the leading vote getter for the Pro Bowl recievers, didnt get in. Dont blame this on the fans. Rivers was going to go, Brady declined, Roethlisburger had 23 picks, Pennington threw 5 more tds than Vince in 3 more starts, and when you add Vinces 7 rushing tds, the only guys that scored more are the 2 other guys there and the 2 that declined. And dont give me that Pro Bowl is garbage shit. I watched Peyton throwing balls to Chad Johnson, Andre Johnson, Wayne, Harrison, Gates and Gonzales, oh and LT coming out of the backfield, yeah, they really screwed that lineup up bad



Alright, you and Stretch win.

Fuck you guys.

Seriously though, you guys are right, I'm reaching. I'm letting my bias against Vince Young get to my posts about him. Same reason I never bet on the Broncos, don't gamble with your heart instead of your head.

I am a little upset at Stretch calling me an idiot though, he's gotta know that I'm reaching for an argument.

[LB7]

What makes Vince Young anymore of an arrogant jackass than Reggie Bush?

[mardigan]

^^Im ,not saying yoyr wrong on anything other than the fan voting. I realize if Vince was another qb that couldnt run he would never get the accolades that have come his way. Im just saying that we both know that J.P. Losman (although he started playing great second half of the year), or David fucking Carr deserve to go in because of strictly #s. Carr was one of the worst qbs I have ever seen this year. Vinces worth is in much more than #s, thats why the coaches put him in

[johnsmith]

What makes Vince Young anymore of an arrogant jackass than Reggie Bush?


I'm not a big fan of Bush either.

[johnsmith]

^^Im ,not saying yoyr wrong on anything other than the fan voting. I realize if Vince was another qb that couldnt run he would never get the accolades that have come his way. Im just saying that we both know that J.P. Losman (although he started playing great second half of the year), or David fucking Carr deserve to go in because of strictly #s. Carr was one of the worst qbs I have ever seen this year. Vinces worth is in much more than #s, thats why the coaches put him in


Alright, enough, you win. Quit kicking me while I'm down.

[mardigan]

I'm not a big fan of Bush either.
Is this John Ameichi?

[johnsmith]

Is this John Ameichi?


:lol :lol

[2centsworth]

The Vince Young hate is amazing. His running ability, his leadership skills and improvisational skills are off the freakin charts. Plus, he's arguably the greatest college quarterback to have ever played the game.

Athletically speaking, everyone on this board isn't worthy of holding VY's jock nonetheless hate.

but whatever, most of you are just Jock Sniffers anyways.

[LB7]

I'm not a big fan of Bush either.
fair enough

[johnsmith]

The Vince Young hate is amazing. His running ability, his leadership skills and improvisational skills are off the freakin charts. Plus, he's arguably the greatest college quarterback to have ever played the game.

Athletically speaking, everyone on this board isn't worthy of holding VY's jock nonetheless hate.

but whatever, most of you are just Jock Sniffers anyways.


I would argue that there really isn't that much Vince Young hate. I don't hear it very often, if anything I hear an unGodly amount of Vince Young love. Maybe it's a perception thing, but that's how I see it.


Oh, and "Jock Sniffers"?

[johnsmith]

Athletically speaking, everyone on this board isn't worthy of holding VY's jock nonetheless hate.


Furthermore, in regards to the above quote, no shit. That's why we are on this board talking about the guy rather then making millions being him.

I would imagine that most everone on this board doesn't have the athletic ability to compare with the 2nd string left guard of the Detroit Lions either.

[mardigan]

^^I know, like Im sitting here benching 260 on the incline while I type. Opinions people, dont have to get pissed about it, just make points to state your case. Oh, and I actually am repping 250 right now, no big deal

[johnsmith]

^^I know, like Im sitting here benching 260 on the incline while I type. Opinions people, dont have to get pissed about it, just make points to state your case. Oh, and I actually am repping 250 right now, no big deal


Exactly. Just look at this thread, I was having a tantrum about Vince Young, I was put in my place about it by Mardigan and Stretch. I admitted being wrong, it's done. No big deal. Everyone wins or loses arguments all the time.

[mardigan]

And even if you still thought the same thing, oh well. I hate Matt Lienhart and think he looks like a giant douche (literally), and no one will ever change my mind about it, aside from him carrying me out of a burning building, shit, but who cares what I think. Just talking...

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

If winning is more important than stats, why is VY going instead of Pennington?

[johnsmith]

If winning is more important than stats, why is VY going instead of Pennington?



I was wondering that as well, but I think Pennington declined. I'm not positive on that though.

[johnsmith]

Never mind, Pennington didn't decline, he was passed over. OOOOoooohhhh, someone comes to Johnsmith's side of the argument.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I've heard all that matters is Ws, especially when your stats suck as bad as his do.

Then when Pennington's name came up, suddenly it turned into total TDs...

Funny how that works...

[2centsworth]

I've heard all that matters is Ws, especially when your stats suck as bad as his do.

Then when Pennington's name came up, suddenly it turned into total TDs...

Funny how that works...dumbass total TDs is a stat.


Imagine Barry Sanders at QB completing 50% of his passes. Freakin Detroit would have been awesome.

[mardigan]

All I know is that McNair declined as well, so if its between Chad and Vince, the league isnt dumb, its going to put in the mor exciting player for the fans

[johnsmith]

dumbass total TDs is a stat.



I don't think you are understanding what he's saying.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

dumbass total TDs is a stat.


That's exactly the point.

[mardigan]

It is about what you do for your team, wins do matter, but along with having a decent year. Bringing up tds doesnt prove anything except that players might have had similiar years on paper, which they did. Like I said before, it also comes down too which player would you want to watch, Vince or Chad? And stop acting like Chad put up great #s, 17 tds to 16 ints? Grossman put up better numbers. And if Vince had started all year, that Jet playoff spot very well could have been a Titan spot

[to21]

Vince Young is in the Pro Bowl?

Why not, he's freaking Vince Young!!!

Keep drinking that Haterade.

[2centsworth]

That's exactly the point.
no the point is you're evaluting QBs through your racist gogles. VY will run the ball down your throat from the QB position and that skill wins games. Having to even explain it to you tells me you think the white stiff pocket passer is what a QB should be.

[mardigan]

race card! pulled!
Oh snap!!! Race off!!

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

no the point is you're evaluting QBs through your racist gogles. VY will run the ball down your throat from the QB position and that skill wins games. Having to even explain it to you tells me you think the white stiff pocket passer is what a QB should be.

Apparently, every single passing stat is racist as well. And the W/L record when compared to a QB who has a better one...

Damn you statistics and W/L record(only when used against VY). Damn you to Hell!

[mookie2001]

I don't think vy was a clearcut probowler, look at all the afc qbs who declined

LOSMAN, HUARD, pennington and roethlisberger did not get "snuffed", they did not have a better season than VY, yes using total TDs, factoring in wins and team impact

[2centsworth]

Race card totally pulled. VY is a rookie who played only 12 games and went off in most of those games, though a lot of it had to do with his ability to run.

Rushing is a statistic you Drew Bledsoe lovers.

[2centsworth]

Apparently, every single passing stat is racist as well. And the W/L record when compared to a QB who has a better one...

Damn you statistics and W/L record(only when used against VY). Damn you to Hell!
again ignore the rushing statistics. He's not the prototypical "white" QB.

[mookie2001]

not to mention carr, gerrard and plummer, please

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Cumulative of nine random games(starts) from this Pro Bowl resume:


44 rushes 234 yards 5.3 AVG

4 TDs

103 completions 224 Attempts

46% Completion %

1253 Passing Yards

5.6 YPA

5 TDs 7 INTS

WOW. He really went off. Averaging 139 passing yards AND 26 rushing yards in 69% of his starts , all the while completing 46% of his passes? Mind-boggling.

He had 4 very good games(Texans, Bills, NYG, Colts) and the rest is crap.

He didn't even complete 50% of his passes in 6 of his starts and that's Pro Bowl material? C'mon, if these stats were attached to David Carr's name or Joey Harrington's, we'd all agree that there's no way in hell those are Pro Bowl worthy.

[stretch]

Man, why all the hate?
why all the hate for Vince Young? the guy has done nothing but win. and im not sure what makes you think hes so arrogant and stuff. and have you heard about the story of what happened to him when he was a little kid? someone hit him with a car, and nearly killed him, as the handlebar of the bike got jammed in his stomach, and he was hospitalized for months. doctors thought he may never fully recover either, and have some serious health problems growing up. the guy has incredible heart, determination, and is a winner. nothing more, nothing less.

[stretch]

Alright, you and Stretch win.

Fuck you guys.

Seriously though, you guys are right, I'm reaching. I'm letting my bias against Vince Young get to my posts about him. Same reason I never bet on the Broncos, don't gamble with your heart instead of your head.

I am a little upset at Stretch calling me an idiot though, he's gotta know that I'm reaching for an argument.
i didnt call you an idiot. i said if you truly believe guys like David Carr, Jake Plummer, and JP Losman is more deserving of a Pro Bowl birth than VY, then you are an idiot. im not entirely sure what your actual stance is on that, especially since you said you are "reaching for an argument". however, im thinking that deep down, you know that he deserves to be there more than those guys.

[mardigan]

^^Im ,not saying yoyr wrong on anything other than the fan voting. I realize if Vince was another qb that couldnt run he would never get the accolades that have come his way. Im just saying that we both know that J.P. Losman (although he started playing great second half of the year), or David fucking Carr deserve to go in because of strictly #s. Carr was one of the worst qbs I have ever seen this year. Vinces worth is in much more than #s, thats why the coaches put him in
I already mentioned that disgruntled. I realize his passing stats werent that great, for a rookie. But I wont mention Peytons stats or Donovons stats their rookie years either. But you do have to take into account his rushing ability being able to take over a game. He averaged more than two 1st downs a game rushing, that makes a huge difference on the defense.

[mookie2001]

He had 4 very good games(Texans, Bills, NYG, Colts) if you take out any qbs best 4 games their stats arent impressive either, especially when they didnt start the whole season. Anyway youre arguing that the likes of david carr, david gerrard, damon huart, joey harrington, jp losman, charlie frye are better

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

if you take out any qbs best 4 games their stats arent impressive either, especially when they didnt start the whole season. Anyway youre arguing that the likes of david carr, david gerrard, damon huart, joey harrington, jp losman, charlie frye are better


I never mentioned any of those QBs. Just Pennington.

[mookie2001]

alright pennington got "snuffed" badly

[mardigan]

And stop acting like Chad put up great #s, 17 tds to 16 ints? Grossman put up better numbers.
If you add Vinces rushing tds, he had 2 more tds in 3 less games. And I just went through the game logs myself, I counted 6 good games, and the game against Baltimore considering who he was playing did great, 211 passing yards, 1 pick, 40 rushing and a td. What exactly constitutes a good game to you?

[mardigan]

He did great against the Skins, then Baltimore in week 10, did ok against the Eagles week after that, kicked the shit out of the Giants after that, then Indy, Houston and Buffalo. You want this guy to be Dan Marino or what? He is a fucking rookie, and we wouldnt even be having this converstation if the FIRST THREE CANDIDATES turned it down

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ALL VINCE YOUNG HATERS:


Would you agree his presence on the field changes the scheme a defensive coordinator would have going into a football competition versus his scheme against a quarterback who is not a running threat?



The fact of the matter is that Vince Young (so far[!!!]) is what people expected Michael Vick to be. When Michael Vick came into this game everyone said he would change the way the game was played, change the outlook; in essence, cause a ruckus in the NFL by preying on defensive coordinators' lack of experience versus such a threat. Michael Vick is still that guy but none of you haters truely believe Vince Young is a worse asset to an offensive attack than Michael Vick? If you say MV is better in this sense (not in a QB rating ability) then you are flat out wrong. Any GM in this fucking league would take VY over MV. So, moving on, we have Vincent Young, a quarterback who is like an exaggerated Michael Vick. Noone is saying anything about stats here, I am focusing solely on an offensive impact, and the resulting impact on a defensive coordinator's plan....

When it comes down to it, playing against VY is tantamount to pissing in the opposing defensive coordinator's Kool-Aid. If any of you haters truely watched the games televised, he may not get the yards to be expected watching Vick, but he is smart about how to use his feet....basically primarily uses it to wear out a defense. He uses it to set up his team. He never really wants to use his running to win a game unless his team is down and needs it. And that is a risk cuz the defense expects it. But history has already proven this kid has a RIDICULOUS clutch factor, and even though a defense knows he will take over in the 4th when his team is down, he has a strong chance of overcoming the predictability factor.

Ya'll have to give the kid credit, he changed the way the game is played as a rookie, and will only get better, further changing it. He will never have a great QB rating, but his Touchdowns (points: the means by which a game is won) and overall win record will show this. Stat freaks, keep on spouting stats, but this kid is going to change the game.

I bet he keeps his QB rating, fuck it, lets say his QB rating gets worse next season, but his WL record improves. What will you stat freaks say then???

PLUS, NFL naturally wants ratings, and VY will eat up slacking pro bowl veterans for breakfast. LOL.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Why is it always "hating on VY"? The numbers are shit for a Pro Bowl QB, even the 5th-6th alternate.

IMO, there was a better alternative. Better stats, better W/L record and showed more consistency throughout the year. Apparently, that's racist hating...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I'm not saying VY is deserving of this pro bowl selection but the degree of 'hating on vy' has reached more extremes and is not stopping
its ridiculous

He's a texas boy. He does the damn thing. How can you hate that?

[mookie2001]

who gives a shit?, its the probowl, you think VY thinks hes clearly better than Roethlisberger or Pennington? there are a lot more deserving players who get passed over every year for the probowl, chad pennington is a bad example

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Fair enough.

I don't really care either way.

[mookie2001]

yeah at least youre not for the hpv vaccine

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

What if VY is?

[mookie2001]

VY is hardcore constitutionalist patriot, for tax honesty, against tyranny, globalization, and the new world order

[2centsworth]

Here's the link to VY's stats http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/424340. Anyone who tries to make those very impressive "rookie" numbers bad is and always was a hater. More than likely they are "racist" and think a quarterback should be a white stiff.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I swear, VY jock riders are funny. Who said they were horrid rookie numbers? And why would anyone need to make them look bad? They are what they are.

The discussion was Pro Bowl, being a rookie has nothing to do with it. It isn't a big deal. Some think he is deserving, others don't. Hate isn't involved at all unless you don't have any other argument...

[Mr Dio]

Actually, people VY haters that have been anally raped and made look silly by VY WINNING is even funnier. It is like the VY haters are trying to get their manhood back but keep failing, in College, In the Pros... :lol

[MajorMike]

who won more games as a starting QB?

So VY and Rex Grossman should both be locks, correct?

[mardigan]

So VY and Rex Grossman should both be locks, correct?
More so than the other guys people on this thread have been bringing up, like Pennington, Roethlisburger and Losman. If he had been the first guy picked, I would understand why people are talking so much shit, but he was the 4th guy on the list, so all these little shit talkers either dont know football, dont understand math, or just hate Vince so much they just end up sounding ignorant.

[MajorMike]

Seriously... how much validity can you give to the whole thing when Romo is going?

[mardigan]

Romo didnt deserve it probably either, but with that said, who you gonna put in ahead of him, Hasselbeck, Grossman, Favre? Maybe, but I dont see it, Romo was the best of the rest, so he is there

[johngateswhiteley]

whats laughable?...

the fact that posters in this thread are putting out solid #'s against vyoung. to which people are combating with "he is a winner, he changes the game." blah, blah, blah....vyoung's rookie season wasn't good and he hardly had much to do with the teams success...

i feel the need to repost this from pistons < spurs:

Jones Drew got screwed.

Youngs numbers are terrible. A 66.7 (ranks 30th) QB rating does not equal rookie player of the year. 51.5% (ranks 32nd) completion ratio is not a stat that garners a player of the year award. 13 INT's to 12 TD's (3.6 INT ratio ranks 22nd) does not equate to a post season award. 2200 passing yards (ranks 26th) does not give him the award.

The ONLY positive stat he has to his credit is surpassing 500 rushing !!! Whoopy!!!!!

Young is, too often IMO, given credit for 8 wins. Cough BULLSHIT Cough....

Vince made numerous outstanding plays during the year. Many of those plays ended up being THE deciding play of the game. But Young is not THE reason they won 8 games.

Wins and losses is not a individual stat. It's a team stat. While the QB is a larger portion of 'it' compared to other position players, and often receives the lions share of the criticism, they do also deserve the majority of the praise. But if you really look at the wins, there were many other factors involved nearly every single time that probably outshined what VY did.

I honestly HATE agreeing with johngateswhiteley (no offense man!!) as he's WAY to homerish with his USC and Leinart love, and typically comes across as nothing more than an unobjective hater. But he's right. Pacman and Bironas were IMO more responsible for the wins than Young. Norm Chow, and his football IQ, the Specail Team pay, Travis Henry, and yes, the Defense were just as responsible for the 8 wins as Young was.




Lets look at those 8 wins. (quotes come from game recaps on ESPN)



Week 6

25-22 @ Washington

VY Stats:

passing 13/25 162yds 1 TD 0 INT 52.0 completion% 6.44 YardsPerAttempt 85.6 QB rating

rushing 7 carries 9yds

Key stats of the game:

Henry: 32 carries 178 yards

+2 turnover ratio

Plays of the game:

Quote:






"Play: Washington's A. Montgomery is called for a face mask penalty.

The Titans receive a gift while trailing 14-13 in the 3rd quarter. Montgomery's face mask against V. Young sets up 1st-and-goal from the 2 yard line, rather than 3rd-and-goal from the 3. The Titans eventually push the ball in to take a 20-14 lead."






A timely penalty helps them take the lead.

Quote:






"Casey Cramer then blocked a punt, and the ball rolled out of the end zone for a safety that made the score 22-14."






special teams...

Quote:






"The Redskins rallied early in the fourth period with a touchdown set up by a 52-yard pass to Brandon Lloyd -- only the eighth catch of the season for an offseason acquisition who had been a major disappointment. Clinton Portis scored on a 4-yard run, and Mark Brunell hit Santana Moss for the 2-point conversion to tie the score with 10:57 remaining.

The Titans weren't rattled. The winning points came after a short punt by Derrick Frost was returned 14 yards by Adam "Pacman" Jones to the Redskins 43. Five consecutive running plays moved the ball in position for Bironas' 30-yarder."





No VY, handed it off 5 times.

Quote:






"Tennessee intercepts M. Brunell's pass with 1 minute left.
The Titans thwart any Redskins comeback hopes by picking Brunell's pass at midfield with just over a minute left. The stop preserves the 25-22 victory."






Defense secures it!

--------------------------


Week 8

28-22 vs Houston

VY Stats:

passing 7/15 87yds 1 TD 0 INT 46.7 completion% 5.80 YardsPerAttempt 85.6 QB rating

rushing 4 carries 44yds

Key stats of the game:

+5 turnover ratio

Quote:






"Houston outgained the Titans 427 yards to just 197 yards in total offense."






Quote:






"Play: Houston's Bryan Pittman is flagged for pass interference, an 18 yard penalty.

With 3 mintues to play in the first quarter and the game tied at 0-0, the Titans get a free 1st down on their own 29 yard line, keeping the drive alive."






Alot of timely penalties kept them alive throughout the season.

Quote:






"Play: Vince Young scrambles 20 yards for a touchdown.

With the game knotted up at 0-0 with 10 minutes left in the 2nd quarter, Young tucks the ball on 3rd-and-7 from 20 yards out and scrambles for a TD to give the Titans a 7-0 lead."






Big play +7

Quote:






"Play: Tony Brown recovers a David Carr fumble, returning it for a touchdown."






Defense scores!

Quote:






"Play: Adam "Pacman" Jones returns a punt 53 yards for a touchdown.

The Titans force a Houston punt with 11 minutes left while leading 21-10, and Jones puts the game out of reach as he scoots 53 yards for a TD."






Special teams closes this one!

---------------------------------


Week 11

31-13 @ Philly

VY Stats:

passing 8/22 101yds 1 TD 0 INT 36.4 completion% 4.59 YardsPerAttempt 66.7 QB rating

rushing 6 carries 49yds 1TD


Key stats of the game:

Henry: 18 carries 143 yards 1 TD

+2 turn over ratio

Quote:






Second play of the second qtr, McNabb is injured, ending his season






Travis Henry runs for a 70 yard TD.

Quote:






"Play: Stephen Tulloch intercepts Donovan McNabb's pass.


On a 3rd-and-goal from the 1 yard line with the Eagles trailing 7-0 in the 1st, Tulloch picks off McNabb's pass to L.J. Smith in the endzone for a touchback. Instead of the Eagles tying the game early, the Titans gain possession with a 7 point lead."





Again, defense having a big role in the Titan wins.

Quote:






"Play: Pacman Jones returns Dirk Johnson's punt for a 90 yard TD.

With the Titans holding an unlikely 17-6 lead in the 3rd quarter, Jones takes a punt back for a long TD to push the lead to 24-6, giving the Titans a 3 score lead."






Special teams keep producing.

Quote:






"The Eagles had chances for big plays on defense, but Brian Dawkins and Lito Sheppard each dropped interceptions that could've been returned for TDs."






VY was fortunate. Both should have been TD's which would have made this a completely different game.

---------------------------------


Week 12

24-21 vs Giants

VY Stats:

passing 24/35 249 yds 2 TD 0 INT 68.6 completion% 7.11 YardsPerAttempt 107.9 QB rating (His best game by far at this point)

rushing 10 carries 69 yds 1 TD

Key stats of the game:

+0 turn over ratio

Quote:






"Young rallies Titans from 21-point deficit to stun Giants"

"After giving up 21 points in the first half, the Titans shored up their defense and found a hero as Vince Young led his team to 24 second-half points. Young was 15-of-22 in the second half with no interceptions and caught the run-conscious Giants defense flat-footed. Using the shotgun formation that he was so familiar with at Texas almost exclusively in the second half, Young scored on all four of Tennessee's final possessions. The Giants didn't help their cause with Eli Manning throwing two interceptions in the second half."

"The Titans cornerback intercepted two passes and had a 23-yard punt return that revived his teammates in the fourth quarter. "





VY showed up in the 2nd half. He looked like a savy veteran. Composed, and making plays.

But, as the quote states, alot of other factors were in play. First, it was Eli. He again, melted in the second half of a game. The defense was much improved and made a difference. Fisher must have given one hell of a hlaf time speech, because the entire team pulled a 180, They were a different team in the 2nd.

--------------------------------




Week 13

20-17 vs Colts

VY Stats:

passing 15/25 163 yds 2 TD 2 INT 60.0 completion% 6.52 YardsPerAttempt 72.6 QB rating

rushing 9 carries 78 yds 0 TD

Key stats of the game:

+0 turn over ratio

Henry: 20 carries 93 yards 0 TD

Quote:






Young, who drove the Titans 95 yards in 11 plays, put them ahead 17-14 with a 9-yard pass to Brandon Jones in the fourth quarter.
quote]

Without doubt, VY's best drive of his young career.

[quote]Play: Ben Utecht is called for offensive pass interference, a 10 yard penalty.

Two yards from the end zone, the Colts have less than four minutes to play and trail 17-14 when Utecht shoots the team in the foot with a pass interference penalty. The penalty moves the offense back out to the 12 yard line and the Colts will end up settling for a field goal. This makes the difference: the Titans will win by three.






Big break. If that was ruled a TD, the game would not have gone in the win collumn for the Titans.

Quote:






Play: Rob Bironas hits a 60-yard game winning field goal.

With just 12 seconds to play, Rob Bironas hits a 60 yard, game winning field goal for the Titans. The kick ties for the 4th-longest field goal in NFL history.






HUGE play by the kicker. Clutch. VY got them in position, but he didn't really do any favors for the kicker making him have to go for 60.


-----------------------------------



Week 14

26-20 @ Houston

VY Stats:

passing 19/29 218 yds 0 TD 1 INT 65.5 completion% 7.52 YardsPerAttempt 73.6 QB rating

rushing 7 carries 86 yds 1 TD

Key stats of the game:

-2 turn over ratio

Quote:






Play: Vince Young scrambles for a 39-yard touchdown.


The Titans are facing a 3rd-and-14 in overtime from 39 yards out when Young wins the game, scrambling up the middle for a touchdown. Instead of a possible 57-yard field goal attempt, the Titans win their fourth straight game.






Play of the game ... maybe play of the year for the entire NFL.

He made it look so easy.

Quote:






The Texans could not sustain drives -- they were 2-for-11 on third down (18 percent). Of Houston's 12 possessions, only four lasted more than five plays. Houston must find a way to keep its defense off the field longer.






It's Houston.

Big emotional game though for VY in Houston

------------------------------



Week 15

24-17 vs Jax

VY Stats:

passing 8/15 85 yds 0 TD INT 53.3 completion% 5.67 YardsPerAttempt 70.1 QB rating

rushing 4 carries 4 yds 0 TD

Key stats of the game:

+4 turn over ratio

Quote:






Four turnovers proved to be just too costly for Jacksonville. With the Jaguars outgaining the Titans in every offensive category, three interceptions thrown by David Garrard (above), two of which were returned for touchdowns, plus a Jaguars fumble that was returned 92 yards for a touchdown were the difference.






Quote:






On Sunday, Young and the offense couldn't move the ball against the Jaguars. So the Titans' defense beat up David Garrard and returned turnovers 83, 92 and 61 yards for touchdowns and beat Jacksonville 24-17 for their fifth straight victory.
Adam "Pacman" Jones returned an interception 83 yards for a touchdown in the first quarter for a 7-0 lead. Then the Titans broke open a 10-10 game in the third quarter despite the Jaguars running 32 consecutive offensive plays -- not counting a penalty that nullified a 33rd.

Finnegan picked up Garrard's fumble and returned it for the go-ahead TD with 4:51 left in the third period. Six plays later, safety Chris Hope picked off a pass and ran 61 yards up the left sideline for a 24-10 lead.

Credit a franchise-record three defensive TDs and a team-record 370 yards of returns.






Quote:






The Titans had the ball for only 96 seconds in the third quarter and 15:38 overall and finished with a season-low 98 yards of offense.

But it was Tennessee's defense, statistically the worst in the league allowing 364.4 yards per game, that made the biggest plays. The weary Titans even kept the Jaguars out of the end zone despite Jacksonville having first-and-goal at the Tennessee 6 midway through the fourth quarter.






Obviously VY had NOTHING to do with this victory.

-----------------------------------



Week 16

30-29 # Buffalo

VY Stats:

passing [B13/20[/B] 183 yds 2 TD 0 INT 65.0 completion% 9.15 YardsPerAttempt 127.7 QB rating

rushing 8 carries 61 yds 1 TD

Key stats of the game:

+2 turn over ratio

Henry 25 carries 135 yards

Quote:






Young threw two touchdown passes and rushed for another to engineer his fourth comeback in the fourth quarter or overtime. This time, he helped Tennessee overcome a 29-20 deficit in the final 12 minutes. After hitting Brandon Jones for a 29-yard touchdown pass, Young engineered a 14-play, 75-yard drive, which Rob Bironas capped with a 30-yard field goal with 2:10 left.

Young's most electrifying play came at the end of the first half, when he scored on a 36-yard keeper on a fourth-and-2.






Quote:






Play: Vince Young scrambles 36 yards for a touchdown.

Trailing 16-13 with 14 seconds to play in the 1st half, Young pulls the ball down on 4th-and-2 from 36 yards out and weaves his way to the end zone. The touchdown run gives the Titans a 20-16 lead.






Quote:






Play: J.P. Losman is intercepted by Ronaldo Hill with 57 seconds to play.

The Bills trail 30-29 with a minute to play when they decide to go for it on 4th-and-5 instead of attempting a 45-yard field goal that would put them up by 2. Losman is unable to find an open receiver and tosses up a Hail Mary, which Hill intercepts.






VY had a great game. He had the big highlight play, but when it came down to it, the victory was secured by the defense, and poor decision making on behalf of the Bills

------------------------------------

VY was personaly responsible for 2 maybe 3 wins. The defense and specail teams .... Pacman ... were IMO responsible for just as many wins. Notice how in most of the wins, The Titans have a good advantage in the +/_ category.

I find it very hard to give the award to VY when his individual stats ....and this is an individual award....were so poor.

He is basically the Carmello Anthony of the NFL. Bush is Lebron. Leinart might be Wade. ESPN and other media outlets want to talk about VY and Bush. And to his credit, VY has had a few superstar plays for them to play over and over. But just because there is hype, does not mean he deserves it all.

While the Titan defense was piss poor, and people want to assume they didn't help VY look good, they did rank # 5 in the +/- stat. That alone allowed the offense ... VY... to secure victories.

Give VY all the love you want. Crown his ass already. But the fact is that he was not all that special. the defense, special teams and whistles were just as important when adding up the total number of team victories.

VY has the intangibles. He has "IT". By far his biggest asset to me, is his leadership. He's a born leader. So many QB's get drafted without this quality, and fail. VY, when his days are done could be one of the better QG's to have played the game. We see glimpses of it.

But.....

His performance, his numbers and the teams wins this year does not equate to a ROY.

That's my opinion.




btw, its not that i or anybody cares that people talk about vyoung, but at least get it right. dude didn't really do anything his rookie year...maybe next year he will.

[Mr Dio]

Soooo easy to toy with people and their get panties bunched up. :lol

All you have to do is say, "Vince punked the 'SC rubbers and won the LEGIT Nat'l Championship in their own backyard!" :smokin