Ludden: Parker delivering for Popovich

[Kori Ellis]

Parker delivering for Popovich: Spurs coach helps push guard to All-Star berth

Web Posted: 02/06/2007 11:13 PM CST

Johnny Ludden
Express-News

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA020707.01C.BKNspurs.wizards.1d88464.html

WASHINGTON — After Gilbert Arenas missed 14 of his 20 shots in the Spurs' victory over Washington last month, Tony Parker quickly downplayed any suggestion he had played a large role in limiting the Wizards point guard to the pedestrian 17-point performance.

Parker had reason not to gloat. For one, he still had a pending date with Arenas on his own court, and Arenas, as the Spurs have seen for themselves, is big on payback.

But Parker also understood the night-to-night roller-coaster ride that goes along with being a young point guard. Win one battle, and the next night brings only another.

Parker will have ample opportunity during the Spurs' five-game trip through the Eastern Conference to measure himself against the best at his position. In addition to tonight's rematch with Arenas, he also has meetings with New Jersey's Jason Kidd and Detroit's Chauncey Billups.

With Thursday's loss to Steve Nash and the Phoenix Suns already on the books, the only member of this season's quintet of All-Star point guards Parker won't face in the six-game stretch is himself.

Western Conference coaches passed over a talented group of forwards that included Dallas' Josh Howard, Denver's Carmelo Anthony and the Los Angeles Clippers' Elton Brand to name Parker to his second consecutive All-Star team. Parker, however, credits his selection to the one coach he knows didn't vote for him: Gregg Popovich.

"Sometimes he drives me crazy," Parker said. "But at the end of the day, when I see my name as an All-Star, it's because he keeps pushing me, trying to get me to reach the limits."

Popovich has pushed a lot in recent weeks. He publicly chided Parker for a listless performance in Chicago, then later told him he needed to do a better job of creating for his teammates.

Parker initially bristled at what he considered were orders to "shoot less."

"I thought we were past that," Parker said after a three-game stretch in which he averaged 11.0 points and 6.3 assists. "I thought he was just going to let me be myself."

After speaking with Popovich, Parker now says he understands his coach only wants him to realize he can impact a game in ways other than scoring.

"The best guards are good decision makers," Popovich said. "I think Tony's gotten better at it each year, but we want him to continue to become that consummate point guard who can make great decisions as far as distributing the basketball and scoring.

"It's a difficult thing to do. It means that on some nights, he might get 23 shots, and I don't care. And on another night, he might get seven shots and 14 assists, and I don't care.

"It's about learning what's available and what the defense offers."

The key for Parker, as it's always been, is striking a balance between his roles as scorer and distributor — and learning that he can do both in the same game. What Popovich said he doesn't want is for Parker to view his job in only shoot-less or shoot-more terms.

"It's like if you tell your kid you want him to have good hygiene and saying, 'All right, I want you to brush your teeth, but don't take showers,'" Brent Barry said. "It doesn't make much sense. Something is going to be dirty.

"I think sometimes, Tony just hears the one message and forgets about the other thing."

Parker's dilemma is that his quickness and improved jump shot make him one of the team's most effective scorers. He and Nash are the only players in the league this season averaging better than 15.0 points and 5.0 assists and shooting above 50 percent.

Parker's averages of 19.0 points (on 52.7 percent shooting) and 5.5 assists are nearly identical to that of last season when he was a first-time All-Star.

"He's got the most uncanny finishing ability that I have ever seen," Houston coach Jeff Van Gundy said. "I know he's quick, but when he's in there, he (can finish) with either hand and can contort his body and use his soft touch."

At times, Parker has relied too heavily on his ability to finish and overlooked his penetrate-and-kick skills. His teammates, however, could do a better job of giving him incentive to pass. During the initial three-game leg of their rodeo trip, the Spurs shot a combined 38.2 percent.

Parker teamed with Manu Ginobili and Michael Finley to rally the Spurs in their overtime victory against the Los Angeles Lakers, scoring 13 of his 19 points after the third quarter. Three nights later, 14 of his 27 points against Utah came in the fourth quarter.

Parker even made consecutive 3-pointers — a shot he rarely takes — to tie that game, but the Jazz still won, in part because of a costly foul he committed on center Mehmet Okur. The following night in Phoenix, Parker scored 20 points on 18 shots, among them an ill-advised 3-point attempt early in the second half.

"If Kobe Bryant's trusting his teammates, I think Tony Parker can trust his," Popovich said. "And I think he is. But sometimes, you're going to want a guy to distribute when he's shot, and sometimes you're going to want him to shoot when he distributes.

"Player and coach may have a difference of opinion on a play in that regard, but overall, he must understand that's how one gains respect of teammates, that's how a team becomes better."

Parker said he's listening. Popovich said he continues to see improvement. While coaches can't vote for their own players in All-Star balloting, Popovich made sure to tell Parker he was proud of him.

And that he deserved the honor.

Notebook: James White has been selected to play in the Developmental League All-Star Game on All-Star weekend in Las Vegas. Barry was not chosen to participate in the 3-point shootout.

[Mr. Body]

They forgot the blurb mentioning there will be no trades this year and the team is making progress.

[Kori Ellis]

For emphasis, in case you don't read the last line...


Barry was not chosen to participate in the 3-point shootout.

[koopa]

lol @ them having to go all the way down to over 5 assist just so parker can be in that category with nash

pretty good read though, i know i bash parker for only wanting to score, i hope he can prove me wrong and be an actual point guard someday. and be able to rack up assist and points in the same game

[SequSpur]

Tony Parker is the best player on the team.

[Kori Ellis]

lol @ them having to go all the way down to over 5 assist just so parker can be in that category with nash

pretty good read though, i know i bash parker for only wanting to score, i hope he can prove me wrong and be an actual point guard someday. and be able to rack up assist and points in the same game

I think he'd consistently get more assists (7 though - not 9+ or anything) if the Spurs had another reliable scorer. The fact that many nights he has to carry them scoring wise is going to always skew things.

Tony has made tremendous progress over the years though. It must be incredibly difficult to balance scoring and dishing when you know you can score 55% of the time and your teammates are shooting bricks from outside.

This topic was exactly what Manu was talking about a few weeks ago when he said Tony and him had trouble trusting their teammates and sometimes looked to score at times when they really shouldn't.

Hopefully the trust of (and production from) some of the role players improves.

[SequSpur]

I understand what a point guard should do, but most of the Spurs can't shoot for shit, so I wouldn't be disappointed in Tony taking 20+ shots a night and leading the league in scoring....

At least he would be constantly aggressive at something....

Sometimes, Tony, Manu and Duncan are guilty of lowering their skill level to the other dipshits on the team and everything looks and is complacent.

Tonight Finley said in a KSAT interview, that they don't take some of their opponents serious? O' really? Dude is a dipshit.

[Spurminator]

Western Conference coaches passed over a talented group of forwards that included Dallas' Josh Howard, Denver's Carmelo Anthony and the Los Angeles Clippers' Elton Brand to name Parker to his second consecutive All-Star team.

Is that accurate? Don't they have to select a certain number at each position?

[joeyjfive]

Its funny how Pop can come out publicly and criticize Tony Parker but for some reason wont talk about retard Beno Udrih, I understand Tony is the STARTING pg but still, Beno freakin sucks.

[baseline bum]

Its funny how Pop can come out publicly and criticize Tony Parker but for some reason wont talk about retard Beno Udrih, I understand Tony is the STARTING pg but still, Beno freakin sucks.

Tony's a pretty strong guy, and has always taken Pop's criticisms without letting it hurt his confidence.

[MannyIsGod]

How the fuck does the league justify passing over Spurs each and every year for the 3 point contest? It is such a crock of shit.

[TDMVPDPOY]

only player who deserves 20shots is tim duncan, i dont give a shit if his forcing them up, dont care if his hittin or missin them, is better than havin parker shootin it

[timvp]

Parker as a 24-year-old point guard is still way ahead of the curve as far as development goes. He's never going to be Magic Johnson in terms of passing, but as this team is put together, I'd rather have a scoring point guard than a passing point guard. Jason Kidd could be on this team and Barry, Finley and Horry would still be old and slow.

Comparing them to Steve Nash and Gary Payton at the same age shows how ahead of the game Parker is. Nash was averaging 7.9 points and 5.5 assists, while shooting 36% from the field and being booed at home in Dallas.

Payton was averaging 13.5 points and 4.9 assists. And Payton was more of a shooting guard, as Nate McMillan was the point guard most of the time. Also note that Payton hit a total of 11 three-pointers in his first three seasons.

Parker, as long as he keeps developing, has a chance to be a Hall of Fame caliber player. That's still a long ways away but two championships and two All-Star appearances before turning 25 puts him way ahead of everyone not named Magic.

[MannyIsGod]

I said Parker has a chance to be the kind of PG that leads a team to a championship and I got laughed at.

[timvp]

I said Parker has a chance to be the kind of PG that leads a team to a championship and I got laughed at.

It's pretty much impossible for a point guard to lead a team to a championship the way a bigman can. Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson both had multiple Hall of Famers and All-Star caliber players around them when they won it. Nash has two MVPs, two All-Star teammates and still hasn't been to the Finals.

For Parker to win a championship on the Spurs after Duncan retires, he'd have to reach Hall of Fame status and then have multiple Hall of Famers or at least All-Stars around him.

[MannyIsGod]

He'll need at least one more superstar next to him, but I don't see a reason why the Spurs won't be building around Parker and with some luck successfully in the post Duncan ear.

[whottt]

I don't see a reason why the Spurs won't be building around Parker and with some luck successfully in the post Duncan ear.

He'll probably need more than one...he'll also need interior defenders and rebounding.

I agree we could have some luck in the post Duncan ear...but the nose is important too.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

[timvp]

Magic won all his championships with Kareem in the middle. He also had James Worthy for three of them. Thomas had a Hall of Famer (Dumars) and probably the biggest collection of rugged interior players the league has ever seen.

So all the Spurs would have to do to win after Duncan would be for Parker to turn into a Hall of Famer and then add another Hall of Famer in addition to other All-Star quality players.

[whottt]

would be for Parker to turn into a Hall of Famer .


If Parker did nothing but average 5 assists and 10 points pg per year for the rest of his career until say, age 35...he'd finish his career without 8000 assists and 17,000 points...


Those numbers by themselves would get him into the Hall...add in 2 championships, multiple all star appearances, some memorable post season matchups against Nash, Kidd and Payton(HOF'ers all) and the likelyhood he'll be the greatest and most well known basketball player from France...Parker could coast for the next 11 years or so and be an automatic HOF'er.

He doesn't have to turn into a HOF'er...he pretty much already is.

When you are 24 and your own perfectionist coach refers to you as a stud...the HOF is in your future.

And don't underestimate the impact Duncan has on PG assist totals...it's not like the Spurs are an anemic passing team...they're a decent passing team so what Parker does individually there is unimportant...hus numbers would be better if he handled the ball more...it's as simple as that.

But yeah...we'd need a bunch of tough physical defenders...not that easy to find lmao, as we can see now, but I figure the Spurs will have some down years and some good picks for a year or 2 before and after Duncan retires.

[whottt]

I mean use the Hakeem argument for Parker...

Post season records:
VS Nash - 2-0
VS Kidd - 1-0
VS Payton - 1-0


Come to think of it...

VS Bibby - 1-0
VS Marbury - 1-0
VS Billups - 1-0
VS Miller - 1-0

He's a multiple time All Star.


So on and so forth...

I know he had Duncan...but so did every other PG have someone...

Nash has had mutiple All Star and even MVP level bigs...virtually his entire career, Kidd had an All Star Big...Billups had 2 etc.

He's pretty much a HOF'er already IMO.

[JPB]

Those comparisons with Nash and Payton at the same age are really speaking...

They couldn't shoot beyond the arc in the first part of their career and turned out to be decent for Payton and good fo Nash in the second part.

I see TP becoming a reliable treys shooter with years going. Remember he changed his shooting technic 1 and 1/2 years back and said himself it might take several years to really fell comfortable with it. It worked with the mid-range, the next step should be long-range.
If you had that with maturity, his decisions making can only get better, you can say that Tony is far from having reached his prime.

I remember, a few years back when fa

[JPB]

...ns said they would be thrilled if he could ever become a 15-16 pts - 5-6 ass player.

[BgT]

"The best guards are good decision makers," Popovich said. "I think Tony's gotten better at it each year, but we want him to continue to become that consummate point guard who can make great decisions as far as distributing the basketball and scoring.
He will never be a true PG. He might seem great to many people, but he is one of the reasons why this team is having problems.

It's not about "Tony is the best, 2nd best player on the team". It's about how good he can make OTHER players! And Parker doesn't make his teammates better. All good PGs make their teammates better. Tony doesn't. Is he a good player? Yes. Is he a good PG? Hell, no! And he will never be one, he just doesn't have the right mentality, just read his comments from the article. For him it's just "shoot more or shoot less". WTF?! Great PGs KNOW when they should shoot more. Ask Nash. Parker is not even top 10 PG in the league.

I just read the article again, I can't believe, how he is not being criticized more.


"But at the end of the day, when I see my name as an All-Star, it's because he keeps pushing me, trying to get me to reach the limits."
How about... "when I see Spurs winning tough games/championship?


Parker initially bristled at what he considered were orders to "shoot less."

"I thought we were past that," Parker said after a three-game stretch in which he averaged 11.0 points and 6.3 assists. "I thought he was just going to let me be myself."
What kind of attitude is this? Pop mentioning Kobe and Parker in the same sentence was not a coincidence. Parker has always been "me this, me that" type of a character.

[picnroll]

I believe Parker has already mentioned a couple of times it being hard to invision being on the Spurs post Duncan and Manu, possibly going to another team. If the Spurs don't have a contender in place in Parker's prime years I can't say as I balme him. He may have that HOF next to him, just maybe not in black and silver.

[AFBlue]

I think he'd consistently get more assists (7 though - not 9+ or anything) if the Spurs had another reliable scorer. The fact that many nights he has to carry them scoring wise is going to always skew things.

Tony has made tremendous progress over the years though. It must be incredibly difficult to balance scoring and dishing when you know you can score 55% of the time and your teammates are shooting bricks from outside.

This topic was exactly what Manu was talking about a few weeks ago when he said Tony and him had trouble trusting their teammates and sometimes looked to score at times when they really shouldn't.

Hopefully the trust of (and production from) some of the role players improves.

On point!

[BgT]

I believe Parker has already mentioned a couple of times it being hard to invision being on the Spurs post Duncan and Manu, possibly going to another team.
Really? Ccccc.

[diego]

i like tony and all but since when are payton and kidd the standard for pgs? are they even in the HOF yet? is KJ in the hof? because to me parker is a poor man's kevin johnson, more similar to him than to kidd, payton, nash. nevermind magic, IT, stockton...

and how many triple doubles did they have at tony's age?

[AFBlue]

He will never be a true PG. He might seem great to many people, but he is one of the reasons why this team is having problems.

It's not about "Tony is the best, 2nd best player on the team". It's about how good he can make OTHER players! And Parker doesn't make his teammates better. All good PGs make their teammates better. Tony doesn't. Is he a good player? Yes. Is he a good PG? Hell, no! And he will never be one, he just doesn't have the right mentality, just read his comments from the article. For him it's just "shoot more or shoot less". WTF?! Great PGs KNOW when they should shoot more. Ask Nash. Parker is not even top 10 PG in the league.

And those "other" players assume no responsibility for not capitalizing when he does get them the ball? C'mon. The supporting role is also culpable for Tony's lower assist total.

Say all you want about his attitude, but you're wrong. He's taken all of his criticism in stride and done his best to accommodate/improve in EVERY facet of the game. This article is a testimony to that.

[AFBlue]

Those comparisons with Nash and Payton at the same age are really speaking...

They couldn't shoot beyond the arc in the first part of their career and turned out to be decent for Payton and good fo Nash in the second part.

I see TP becoming a reliable treys shooter with years going. Remember he changed his shooting technic 1 and 1/2 years back and said himself it might take several years to really fell comfortable with it. It worked with the mid-range, the next step should be long-range.
If you had that with maturity, his decisions making can only get better, you can say that Tony is far from having reached his prime.

I remember, a few years back when fa

One of the things I'm quick to point out when the Parker-haters use the phrase "never will be", is that Parker has shown steady improvement each year and he's ONLY 24. I can't think of a single NBA player that peaked at 24.

[AFBlue]

I believe Parker has already mentioned a couple of times it being hard to invision being on the Spurs post Duncan and Manu, possibly going to another team. If the Spurs don't have a contender in place in Parker's prime years I can't say as I balme him. He may have that HOF next to him, just maybe not in black and silver.

a) That's 5 or 6 years out....I doubt he'll be held to what he said in 2004/5/6 for a decision he'll be making in 2011.

b) I haven't seen any article or comment by Parker stating that. Not saying it's not out there, just need proof. The only thing I've heard is the "LA or NY" rumors because of his high-profile relationship with Eva and being closer to her work.

You're point is well taken that he probably won't be back after the next contract if the Spurs' future looks bleak. That's why it's important for the Spurs not to sacrafice immediate success for future long-term progress.

The Spurs particularly need to have a legitimate low-post presence in the fold as Duncan gets ready to retire, whether it be Scola, Butler, Mahinmi, or someone to-be-drafted.

[BgT]

One of the things I'm quick to point out when the Parker-haters use the phrase "never will be", is that Parker has shown steady improvement each year and he's ONLY 24. I can't think of a single NBA player that peaked at 24.
Steady impovement - yes. But not on mental level. In last few seasons his mental point guard related abilities have remained the same. He doesn't run the game any better than he did 3 seasons ago.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I have been EXTREMELY hard on Parker for the past couple of seasons but his play in recent weeks has impressed me. My expectations of him were simple. I wanted him to play smarter, not force anything, and find ways to help the team when he's not scoring. He has done that and I think he will become an even better point guard because of it. He deserves big time props. :clap

[AFBlue]

Steady impovement - yes. But not on mental level. In last few seasons his mental point guard related abilities have remained the same. He doesn't run the game any better than he did 3 seasons ago.

You're just flat-out wrong. His decision-making has improved over the past three years, ESPECIALLY in crunch time.

Does he still make mistakes? Yes. Is his first instinct to score? Yes. But, is he a finished product? No.

A main point in this article was Pop trying to teach Tony not to think in terms of "shooting", but to think in terms "balance" and learning to take what the defense give him. Tony trusts Pop and tries to do what he says. I have no doubt that Pop will continue to give him lessons, and Tony will continue to improve.

To reiterate my point though....Tony HAS improved.

[BgT]

You're just flat-out wrong. His decision-making has improved over the past three years, ESPECIALLY in crunch time.

Does he still make mistakes? Yes. Is his first instinct to score? Yes. But, is he a finished product? No.
We will see who is wrong. So far I have a scaringly high realization of my predictions.


A main point in this article was Pop trying to teach Tony not to think in terms of "shooting", but to think in terms "balance" and learning to take what the defense give him. Tony trusts Pop and tries to do what he says. I have no doubt that Pop will continue to give him lessons, and Tony will continue to improve.
It's interesting, but I consider this article to be NEGATIVE regarding Parker's chances to become better PG. His statements are not showing ANY appreciation for Pop's requests for him to become better.

I have no objections regarding Parker's workrate or extent to which he tries to do what Pop tells him. No problems at all. He works hard and tries his best to match Pop's expectations. But every player has his limitations. IMO Tony will not be able to overcome some of the mental ones, he already talks about "Leave me alone, I want to be myself, I want to shoot."

[AFBlue]

We will see who is wrong. So far I have a scaringly high realization of my predictions.

And your realization is that a two-time all-star with two rings by the age of 24 who has shown steady improvement will suddenly decline? :dizzy



It's interesting, but I consider this article to be NEGATIVE regarding Parker's chances to become better PG. His statements are not showing ANY appreciation for Pop's requests for him to become better.



After speaking with Popovich, Parker now says he understands his coach only wants him to realize he can impact a game in ways other than scoring.

The article statement above refutes the claim that he has any lack of appreciation for Pop. It looks to me like he's a 24yr old kid that just misunderstood the change that Pop asked him to make. After beating it in his head to be aggressive and look to score for so long, Pop asked Tony to go in a distinctly different direction. Tony initially took it as "throttle back" but now understands what Pop was trying to teach.



But every player has his limitations. IMO Tony will not be able to overcome some of the mental ones, he already talks about "Leave me alone, I want to be myself, I want to shoot."

First of all, that's the most rediculous quote I've read in a while...did you just make that up and imply that Tony said it?

Secondly, I understand Tony may never be a 10+ assist guy, but he has the capacity to grow in that respect beyond a 6 assist guy, and the fact that you fail to recognize it as a possiblity is what puzzles me.

[BgT]

And your realization is that a two-time all-star with two rings by the age of 24 who has shown steady improvement will suddenly decline? :dizzy
WTF?!?! Am I responsible for you reading the posts? No, I'm not. But I'll try for one last time. Maybe you will understand... :rolleyes

In last few seasons his mental point guard related abilities have remained the same. He doesn't run the game any better than he did 3 seasons ago.
I don't care if you agree... but don't change my words. Don't say that my opinion is something that it isn't. Ok? Can I ask that? Can I say I have the right for asking you that? Would it help if I say "Pleeeeease"? No? Don't be moronic prick and be fair. Don't put words in my mouth and don't ask questions which I have already answered. As I said, you can have a different opinion, but don't act like some other dirty posters around here. Please. And thanks.

And one last thing, I admit I'm prejudiced when it comes to shoot first PG's. I don't like them. For me, a team with a shoot first PG is not a complete basketball team. It' doesn't mean that it's a bad team, some good teams in past and present have no real center and are considered good teams. But it's just not a complete team.

Tony will try, but the mentality is one of the shoot first PG. Also I see him as a "first me, then team" kind of a player, which hurts even more because of his position. I don't like players like him, Carter, Kobe,... I like team players, because basketball is a team sport.

[JPB]

We will see who is wrong. So far I have a scaringly high realization of my predictions.

Go back in 2001 and see how many people predicted with the same assurance that Tony would never ever be an all-star, that no way he could become the player he became...

[stéphane]

rofl keep up BgT...
your posts are really impressive.
you could make me smile for hours because you believe so hard in the sh!t you're saying that it's close to being incredible...

[JPB]

i like tony and all but since when are payton and kidd the standard for pgs? are they even in the HOF yet? is KJ in the hof? because to me parker is a poor man's kevin johnson, more similar to him than to kidd, payton, nash. nevermind magic, IT, stockton...

and how many triple doubles did they have at tony's age?

Problem is you're talking about these guys in their prime not at 24.

[BgT]

Go back in 2001 and see how many people predicted with the same assurance that Tony would never ever be an all-star, that no way he could become the player he became...
I understand what you say. Normally, I am very cautious when it comes to very young PG's. Just take a look at Nash, there was some point in his career when he elevated his game to another level. PG progress is different and Tony is a very good PG for his age. I just don't think he will do that same jump step higher to become a real PG. I might be wrong, I might be right, who knows.

[ginobili fan]

diego IQ:53
BgT IQ:107 but too ugly to be a spursfan.

[BgT]

rofl keep up BgT...
your posts are really impressive.
you could make me smile for hours because you believe so hard in the sh!t you're saying that it's close to being incredible...
I wanted to answer something, but then I took a look at your profile, avatar,... :lol BELIEEEEEEEEVEEEE!!!! :lol

[ploto]

Tony has improved every season- but I do think it is a valid point to be concerned that still after all this time that when Pop talks to Tony about better decisons making, all he hears is "shoot less." It isn't about quantity, but quality of decisons that Pop is trying to get him to understand. I think he still has quite a way to go to understand that- as shown by his comments, and the observations of Brent Barry that seem to imply that Tony still just doesn't see the big picture.

[JPB]

rofl keep up BgT...
your posts are really impressive.
you could make me smile for hours because you believe so hard in the sh!t you're saying that it's close to being incredible...

:) Yeah I particulary like the :


We will see who is wrong. So far I have a scaringly high realization of my predictions. :king

Nostradamus is in da place. :clap

[stéphane]

I wanted to answer something, but then I took a look at your profile, avatar,... :lol BELIEEEEEEEEVEEEE!!!! :lol
i havent changed it since the '05 title but you sure werent in here boy.

[conversekid]

It's about how good he can make OTHER players! And Parker doesn't make his teammates better.

The PG's job is to know where on the floor his teamates have the most success shooting the ball... where they like to get the ball.... When tony gets them the ball there and they nail the shot, then tony's a good PG making his team better. When he gets them the ball there and they brick, tony's not a good PG and doesn't make his team better. :rolleyes

If the San Antonio Bricks would make their shots, we wouldn't even be having this convo because tony would avg 7+ assists

[BgT]

diego IQ:53
BgT IQ:107 but too ugly to be a spursfan.
Hey, I'm not THAT ugly! :lol And my IQ is 140-147 :dramaquee

[ginobili fan]

It's just simple:tony is still learning,I think the only problem finally is that he learns too fast.
Some people just can't bear that he is already an all-star and nba champion,they think he doesn't deserve it.
One solution:these pople should masturbate more

[stéphane]

:lol And my IQ is 140-147 :dramaquee
instant classic

[JPB]

I understand what you say. Normally, I am very cautious when it comes to very young PG's. Just take a look at Nash, there was some point in his career when he elevated his game to another level. PG progress is different and Tony is a very good PG for his age. I just don't think he will do that same jump step higher to become a real PG. I might be wrong, I might be right, who knows.

Alright, I'm ok with that.
but the kid has always found a way to contredict predictions or people who think he couldn't reach the next plateau, so let's trust him.

[BgT]

i havent changed it since the '05 title but you sure werent in here boy.
Of course you haven't changed it, boy, where would you get your jerking material without Tony's pics otherwise?

Seriously, you can spot an idiot so fast. They don't jump at your arguments. They jump at you. They take it personally. You write something about their jerkmaterial player, they attack you personally without hesitation. Sick, if you ask me. :oops

[stéphane]

Of course you haven't changed it, boy, where would you get your jerking material without Tony's pics otherwise?

Seriously, you can spot an idiot so fast. They don't jump at your arguments. They jump at you. They take it personally. You write something about their jerkmaterial player, they attack you personally without hesitation. Sick, if you ask me. :oops
big time laugh dude.
why would i discuss your arguments? You're just one more that is saying the same thing that have been discussed 5000times.
taking it personnally? if i would jump at every tp basher i would have more than 10 time the posts i have at the moment but honestly you deserved a couple genius ;)

[BgT]

instant classic
Sure, you thought 100 was the max till now. :lol Well, BOY, it's NOT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ) a percentage system.

[ginobili fan]

stéphane it's your turn we're all waiting

[stéphane]

stéphane it's your turn we're all waiting
?

[ginobili fan]

what ?

[BgT]

stéphane it's your turn we're all waiting
Nah, he is too smart for me. You know what they say - the smarter quits the fight first. I've always tried to be the smart one, but I CAN'T! :)

[ginobili fan]

Nah, he is too smart for me. You know what they say - the smarter quits the fight first. I've always tried to be the smart one, but I CAN'T! :)

yeah I'm disappointed I wanted some nba legend matchup... :depressed

[stéphane]

Nah, he is too smart for me. You know what they say - the smarter quits the fight first. I've always tried to be the smart one, but I CAN'T! :)
rofl the fight?
i tried to made my point with some other free-bashing machine as well as other posters but you just hate so not worth arguing. k thx bye.
see ya in the next thread critisizing tp ;)

[ginobili fan]

YEAH!!!
the game isn't over!!! :elephant :hungry:

[BgT]

rofl the fight?
i tried to made my point with some other free-bashing machine as well as other posters but you just hate so not worth arguing. k thx bye.
see ya in the next thread critisizing tp ;)
Actually I just wanted to post some multi-team trade involving Knight to Spurs and Parker out. We could get some useful players, Tony's value is very high. :elephant :lol

[RonMexico]

For emphasis, in case you don't read the last line...

That's because Barry would start running backwards after every 3 he took... he would only get through 2 racks at most.

[RC's Boss]

I understand what a point guard should do, but most of the Spurs can't shoot for shit, so I wouldn't be disappointed in Tony taking 20+ shots a night and leading the league in scoring....

At least he would be constantly aggressive at something....

Sometimes, Tony, Manu and Duncan are guilty of lowering their skill level to the other dipshits on the team and everything looks and is complacent.

Tonight Finley said in a KSAT interview, that they don't take some of their opponents serious? O' really? Dude is a dipshit.
If they would hit their shots maybe he would pass more. I can't see how people complain about what is arguably a top 5 PG in the league!

[RC's Boss]

Actually I just wanted to post some multi-team trade involving Knight to Spurs and Parker out. We could get some useful players, Tony's value is very high. :elephant :lol
If we lose Parker, we don't contend... BOTTOM FUKING LINE!

[romain.star]

If we lose Parker, we don't contend... BOTTOM FUKING LINE!


IN BENO I TRUST :hungry:

[vanvannen]

I can't believe some people here are saying we should trade TP. This team goes nowhere without Tony. He's had like 2 bad games in the entire season.
I actually think he should pass less. No one in this team his hitting a single shot, so he better try it himself. I never thought I would say this, but Pop should split the touches between TP and calling 4 down.

[Spurs Brazil]

Too bad about Brent

I think he deserved to be there

[George Gervin's Afro]

I can't believe some people here are saying we should trade TP. This team goes nowhere without Tony. He's had like 2 bad games in the entire season.I actually think he should pass less. No one in this team his hitting a single shot, so he better try it himself. I never thought I would say this, but Pop should split the touches between TP and calling 4 down.



Your kidding right?

[romain.star]

Your kidding right?

he's not and i 467% agree with him

[RC's Boss]

me three

[George Gervin's Afro]

he's not and i 467% agree with him



So then why has Pop asked him to shoot less?

[romain.star]

because POP doesn't want TP to be MVP before TD retires

[RC's Boss]

To "hopefully" build confidence in the outside shooters. He wants them (big 3) to trust on their teamates more even though they are slacking!

[George Gervin's Afro]

because POP doesn't want TP to be MVP before TD retires


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Sorry but if you are expecting TP to ever be the MVP of this team you may have to wait until TD retires and we are in the lottery...

I'll answer the question for you. Pop asked him to shoot less because he feels it makes him and the team better.

[romain.star]

I know why Pop asked him to shoot less but actually he didn"t ask him to shoot less
He asked him to make the suckers who play with him (outside of TD and Manu) a bit better....

[romain.star]

To "hopefully" build confidence in the outside shooters. He wants them (big 3) to trust on their teamates more even though they are slacking!

when a player sucks he sucks... it's not because TP will trust them a bit more that it will make them playing good
TP's not a magician

[ShoogarBear]

It's pretty much impossible for a point guard to lead a team to a championship the way a bigman can. Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson both had multiple Hall of Famers and All-Star caliber players around them when they won it. Nash has two MVPs, two All-Star teammates and still hasn't been to the Finals.

For Parker to win a championship on the Spurs after Duncan retires, he'd have to reach Hall of Fame status and then have multiple Hall of Famers or at least All-Stars around him.Isiah Thomas was the only "traditional" point guard in NBA history who led his team to an NBA championship. All the other championship point guards were role players. Parker won't win championships without a lot of help.

TP is way ahead of the curve as timvp pointed out, although we'll have to see if the early workload leads to an earlier burnout.

The biggest thing that gacks me now is that as much contact as Tony draws he should be getting more calls and 7-8 FTA per night.

[BgT]

I actually think he should pass less. No one in this team his hitting a single shot, so he better try it himself. I never thought I would say this, but Pop should split the touches between TP and calling 4 down.
That's not theoretically possible. If it would be possible, Tony would do it loooong time ago. Except if you think he should be stealing balls from his teammates. :lol

[timvp]

You can tell which Spurs fans have jumped on the bandwagon in recent years and which have gone thru the ups and downs. Parker is by FAR the best point guard in franchise history. It's not even close.

The Spurs fans who hopped on board in 2005 or whatever don't even know what it was like to watch Terry Porter and Antonio Daniels play point guard ... not to mention the last 30 years when the Spurs year in and year out had issues at point guard.

Parker was voted into the All-Star game by coaches for the second time. He shoots an ungodly percentage from the field. He plays defense. He listens to whatever Pop tells him. He doesn't cause trouble on or off the court. He wants to get better and better. Yet Johnny come lately Spurs fans are disappointed he doesn't play like John Stockton.

Stupid.

Oh and talking about John Stockton ... at 24 Stockton was in his third season and was averaging a career high 7 points. Thru his first three seasons, Stockton had hit 11 three pointers and hadn't been able to beat out the immortal Rickey Green for a starting spot.

Spoiled ass Spurs fan amaze me with their knowledge.

[RC's Boss]

when a player sucks he sucks... it's not because TP will trust them a bit more that it will make them playing good
TP's not a magician
I'm quoting the coach

[RC's Boss]

You can tell which Spurs fans have jumped on the bandwagon in recent years and which have gone thru the ups and downs. Parker is by FAR the best point guard in franchise history. It's not even close.

The Spurs fans who hopped on board in 2005 or whatever don't even know what it was like to watch Terry Porter and Antonio Daniels play point guard ... not to mention the last 30 years when the Spurs year in and year out had issues at point guard.

Parker was voted into the All-Star game by coaches for the second time. He shoots an ungodly percentage from the field. He plays defense. He listens to whatever Pop tells him. He doesn't cause trouble on or off the court. He wants to get better and better. Yet Johnny come lately Spurs fans are disappointed he doesn't play like John Stockton.

Stupid.

Oh and talking about John Stockton ... at 24 Stockton was in his third season and was averaging a career high 7 points. Thru his first three seasons, Stockton had hit 11 three pointers and hadn't been able to beat out the immortal Rickey Green for a starting spot.

Spoiled ass Spurs fan amaze me with their knowledge.
:toast

[AFBlue]

I don't care if you agree... but don't change my words. Don't say that my opinion is something that it isn't. Ok? Can I ask that? Can I say I have the right for asking you that? Would it help if I say "Pleeeeease"? No? Don't be moronic prick and be fair. Don't put words in my mouth and don't ask questions which I have already answered. As I said, you can have a different opinion, but don't act like some other dirty posters around here. Please. And thanks.

Fair enough. I was simply trying to illustrate that Tony Parker, for all his so-called "faults" is still a 24yr old with 2 rings and 2 all-star selections. Even IF he doesn't improve in the mental aspect as you suggest he will not (though I'll reiterate my disagreement with that point), that's one hell of a player to be cutting down.



And one last thing, I admit I'm prejudiced when it comes to shoot first PG's. I don't like them. For me, a team with a shoot first PG is not a complete basketball team. It' doesn't mean that it's a bad team, some good teams in past and present have no real center and are considered good teams. But it's just not a complete team.

I don't know if you realize it, but the Spurs are not a complete team and it has nothing to do with Tony Parker. The Spurs play 3 on 5 offensively most nights because of inefficiency from the SF and C positions. Tony does what he has to do to fit the current situation.

The Phoenix Suns are the closest you come to a "complete" team (as you suggest) because they have a pass-first PG, a dominant low-post guy, and a handful of reliable scorers. Yet, they are still not considered the clear-cut leading candidate to bring home the title.

The point is that teams can have several different make-ups and still succeed in this league...."complete" teams as you suggest are few and far between.


Tony will try, but the mentality is one of the shoot first PG. Also I see him as a "first me, then team" kind of a player, which hurts even more because of his position. I don't like players like him, Carter, Kobe,... I like team players, because basketball is a team sport.

I understand you consider him to be a shoot-first player and I don't disagree, but Tony is not a "me, then the team" guy at all. He knows Tim is the foundation and he knows Pop is the leader. I've never heard him say/do anything to make me think otherwise....you?

[BgT]

You can tell which Spurs fans have jumped on the bandwagon in recent years and which have gone thru the ups and downs. Parker is by FAR the best point guard in franchise history. It's not even close.

The Spurs fans who hopped on board in 2005 or whatever don't even know what it was like to watch Terry Porter and Antonio Daniels play point guard ... not to mention the last 30 years when the Spurs year in and year out had issues at point guard.

Parker was voted into the All-Star game by coaches for the second time. He shoots an ungodly percentage from the field. He plays defense. He listens to whatever Pop tells him. He doesn't cause trouble on or off the court. He wants to get better and better. Yet Johnny come lately Spurs fans are disappointed he doesn't play like John Stockton.

Stupid.

Oh and talking about John Stockton ... at 24 Stockton was in his third season and was averaging a career high 7 points. Thru his first three seasons, Stockton had hit 11 three pointers and hadn't been able to beat out the immortal Rickey Green for a starting spot.

Spoiled ass Spurs fan amaze me with their knowledge.
:dizzy I'm amazed with this post. Spurs knowledge = basketball knowledge? Basketball knowledge = Spurs knowledge. Again, I'm lost.

I'm stating some basketball related thoughts and I couldn't care less who was Spurs PG 20 years ago! It has nothing to do with basketball knowledge. :lol


I've never heard him say/do anything to make me think otherwise....you?
Hm. Wouldn't you see a bit of "first me" attitude in "I trust Pop, because I play at AS game" for instance. I see a big difference when Manu or TD are being interviewed, they always start talking about the team as a whole very soon, even if asked about their personal career or game.
Sorry, but I just can't imagine Tim answering the same way. His answer might be something like "I trust Pop, because the team has been title contender for years now and we also have few titles."

[Kori Ellis]

Hm. Wouldn't you see a bit of "first me" attitude in "I trust Pop, because I play at AS game" for instance. I see a big difference when Manu or TD are being interviewed, they always start talking about the team as a whole very soon, even if asked about their personal career or game.

In general interviews, so does Tony. But when the reporter asks him a question about All Star selection, he talks about the All Star selection. Parker always talks about team first, the ultimate goal of the Championship, etc. But you only hear what you want to hear.

[AFBlue]

In general interviews, so does Tony. But when the reporter asks him a question about All Star selection, he talks about the All Star selection. Parker always talks about team first, the ultimate goal of the Championship, etc. But you only hear what you want to hear.

Agreed. So many times in nationally televised games when Tony tears it up in the first half he says the following in the halftime interview:

"I just get the ball into Timmy and work off him..."

"Pop just tell me to be aggressive, so I try...."

"We're playing good defense..."

I've heard him say these things many times, not once saying..."Well I have to carry the team, you know, because Tim and Manu are sucking tonight....I tried to do what Pop said about passing, but Bruce just couldn't hit a three, so it's gonna be up to me..."

[romain.star]

Agreed. So many times in nationally televised games when Tony tears it up in the first half he says the following in the halftime interview:

"I just get the ball into Timmy and work off him..."

"Pop just tell me to be aggressive, so I try...."

"We're playing good defense..."

I've heard him say these things many times, not once saying..."Well I have to carry the team, you know, because Tim and Manu are sucking tonight....I tried to do what Pop said about passing, but Bruce just couldn't hit a three, so it's gonna be up to me..."

I'd love it !!!!

[timvp]

Pop has been on Duncan to stop trying to draw fouls and just try to score for years. Pop has been on Manu about stop forcing dumb passes for years.

How much have they listened?

And when the Golden Boy Manu Ginobili joined the Spurs and Pop asked him to try to fit more into the team's style of play, Manu responded with the classic line: "This is how I play. I'm not going to change."

But then again, Spurs fan who joined the bandwagon in 2005 wouldn't know that.

[Testing]

The biggest thing that gacks me now is that as much contact as Tony draws he should be getting more calls and 7-8 FTA per night.


It's really ridiculous. To me, When Parker drives to the lane, he reminds of Dwayne Wade....that guy gets the worst ticky tack fouls. Yet Parker continuously gets jipped by the refs. The difference between Wade's FT attempts and Parker's is really what's astonishing. NBA still has a long ways to go to in terms of evening out the games with refs.

[Testing]

I wonder how fans would feel if that was Tony Parker who made that dumb foul on Dirk in Game 7 last season....I can't even imagine the responses. Yet you never even hear a peep about that play because it was Manu who comitted it.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Such harshness with differing opinions.. I always thought Alvin Roberston was the best point guard the Spurs have ver had..didn't he have a quadruple double once? That dude could play..of course the Spurs were HORRIBLE so he never gets mentioned as one of the all time spurs greats. I always thought it was a shame he never got to play with david Robinson... I know the Spurs and their history as well as anyone

Holds the NBA single season record for steals per game with 3.67 in 1985-86, and is fifth on the list with 3.21 in 1986-87...holds the NBA single season record for steals with 301 in 1985-86...was named Most Improved Player in 1986...was the defensive player of the year in 1986-87.

The bright spot for the Spurs in 1985-86 was the emergence of Alvin Robertson. Robertson represented the Spurs in the All-Star Game, won NBA Most Improved Player honors, led the league in steals, and was named NBA Defensive Player of the Year. On February 18, 1985, Robertson became only the second NBA player [now 4] (and eventually the first of two Spurs players) to record a quadruple-double with 20 points, 11 rebounds, 10 assists, and 10 steals.

[George Gervin's Afro]

You can tell which Spurs fans have jumped on the bandwagon in recent years and which have gone thru the ups and downs. Parker is by FAR the best point guard in franchise history. It's not even close.

The Spurs fans who hopped on board in 2005 or whatever don't even know what it was like to watch Terry Porter and Antonio Daniels play point guard ... not to mention the last 30 years when the Spurs year in and year out had issues at point guard.

Parker was voted into the All-Star game by coaches for the second time. He shoots an ungodly percentage from the field. He plays defense. He listens to whatever Pop tells him. He doesn't cause trouble on or off the court. He wants to get better and better. Yet Johnny come lately Spurs fans are disappointed he doesn't play like John Stockton.

Stupid.

Oh and talking about John Stockton ... at 24 Stockton was in his third season and was averaging a career high 7 points. Thru his first three seasons, Stockton had hit 11 three pointers and hadn't been able to beat out the immortal Rickey Green for a starting spot.

Spoiled ass Spurs fan amaze me with their knowledge.


I never wanted Stockton but I certainly don't want Iverson either..

[romain.star]

I wonder how fans would feel if that was Tony Parker who made that dumb foul on Dirk in Game 7 last season....I can't even imagine the responses. Yet you never even hear a peep about that play because it was Manu who comitted it.

Ginobili is a spanish spoken player playing in a ''spanish'' spoken city...
TP is a french spoken player playing in Texas...
it has nothing to do with Bball

[timvp]

Such harshness with differing opinions.. I always thought Alvin Roberston was the best point guard the Spurs have ver had..didn't he have a quadruple double once? That dude could play..of course the Spurs were HORRIBLE so he never gets mentioned as one of the all time spurs greats. I always thought it was a shame he never got to play with david Robinson... I know the Spurs and their history as well as anyone.

Well enough to know that Alvin Robertson was a shooting guard? :lol

So a shooting guard who played in the worst five year stretch in franchise history is the Spurs' best point guard of all-time?

Got it.

Thanks.

[BgT]

But then again, Spurs fan who joined the bandwagon in 2005 wouldn't know that.
I'm happy with my basketball knowledge, thanks, and I'll trust my eyes, ears and brain in the future just as much as I have trusted them so far. I feel honored that so many people are trying to force their own opinion to me, even with telling me, what kind of a garbage and idiot I am. I feel important.


In general interviews, so does Tony. But when the reporter asks him a question about All Star selection, he talks about the All Star selection. Parker always talks about team first, the ultimate goal of the Championship, etc. But you only hear what you want to hear.
Ok, maybe that sentence was taken out of a context and the question was about AS game, but you gotta admit it doesn't sound like it. Sounds like he took that AS game out of nowhere. Is there a link to the actual question?

[Kori Ellis]

I'm happy with my basketball knowledge, thanks, and I'll trust my eyes, ears and brain in the future just as much as I have trusted them so far. I feel honored that so many people are trying to force their own opinion to me, even with telling me, what kind of a garbage and idiot I am. I feel important.


Ok, maybe that sentence was taken out of a context and the question was about AS game, but you gotta admit it doesn't sound like it. Sounds like he took that AS game out of nowhere. Is there a link to the actual question?

No there isn't.

But I'm a reporter and in the locker room all the time. Tony never starts spouting off about personal accomplishments. He's actually pretty humble and a team first guy.

[diego]

is TP the best pg in spurs history? of the 10 or so years im familiar with the team, most definitely.

but does that make him a HOF player? no (neither do 2 rings or 2 all star selections). can he become a HOF member? of course, he has many years ahead of him. All I asked is whether KJ, the more similar player, is in the HOF: if he is, parker should make it. I dont think magic, thomas, stockton, even kidd or payton are good comparisons for parker- aside from being PGs their games and accomplishments are not similar at all.
being a poor man's KJ is NOT an insult!

I hope parker makes it (because this team is going to need him to be to survive the post-duncan era), but I dont think you can proclaim him to be a HOF player quite yet.

[RC's Boss]

KJ has no rings. Coaches don't set up their defenses to stop him.

[ShoogarBear]

I'm not willing to say Tony Parker is the best point guard in Spurs history yet (*cough*James Silas*cough*), but I can state that without a doubt Tony Parker gets dumped on by Spurs fans more than any great player in Spurs history.

[fred33]

is TP the best pg in spurs history? of the 10 or so years im familiar with the team, most definitely.

but does that make him a HOF player? no (neither do 2 rings or 2 all star selections). can he become a HOF member? of course, he has many years ahead of him. All I asked is whether KJ, the more similar player, is in the HOF: if he is, parker should make it. I dont think magic, thomas, stockton, even kidd or payton are good comparisons for parker- aside from being PGs their games and accomplishments are not similar at all.
being a poor man's KJ is NOT an insult!

I hope parker makes it (because this team is going to need him to be to survive the post-duncan era), but I dont think you can proclaim him to be a HOF player quite yet.

[fred33]

if he plays like that 10 more years with the spurs the number 9 will be retired

[timvp]

I'm not willing to say Tony Parker is the best point guard in Spurs history yet (*cough*James Silas*cough*), but I can state that without a doubt Tony Parker gets dumped on by Spurs fans more than any great player in Spurs history.

I knew you'd pull out the Silas card when I made that post :smokin

Silas averaged fewer assists in his best year than Parker averages this season ... and that was with Silas averaging five more minutes per game on a Spurs team that averaged ten more points per game. Not to mention he had a couple guys named Gervin and Kenon to pass to. Even Mark Olberding averaged over 4 assists that year.

Silas led the Spurs in assists only twice in his entire career (both while in the ABA). Parker is going to pass him this season in career assists. Silas only had one year in which he averaged more points that Parker is averaging this season.

I respect Silas and have watched games in which his Captain Late nickname is appropriate, but Parker is already better than him. You could argue Silas had the best season (1975-76) but career wise, Parker has already passed him.

[whottt]

I'm not willing to say Tony Parker is the best point guard in Spurs history yet (*cough*James Silas*cough*), but I can state that without a doubt Tony Parker gets dumped on by Spurs fans more than any great player in Spurs history.


Yeah but Parker is the best since fire was invented.

[ShoogarBear]

I knew you'd pull out the Silas card when I made that post :smokin

Silas averaged fewer assists in his best year than Parker averages this season ... and that was with Silas averaging five more minutes per game on a Spurs team that averaged ten more points per game. Not to mention he had a couple guys named Gervin and Kenon to pass to. Even Mark Olberding averaged over 4 assists that year.

Silas led the Spurs in assists only twice in his entire career (both while in the ABA). Parker is going to pass him this season in career assists. Silas only had one year in which he averaged more points that Parker is averaging this season.

I respect Silas and have watched games in which his Captain Late nickname is appropriate, but Parker is already better than him. You could argue Silas had the best season (1975-76) but career wise, Parker has already passed him.I will go whottt-like on your ass upon my return from the game. :smokin

[timvp]

I will go whottt-like on your ass upon my return from the game. :smokin

I'll be waiting :hungry:

[diego]

KJ has no rings. Coaches don't set up their defenses to stop him.

if youre going to knock him, do it right. coaches did set up their defenses to stop him, but he was injury prone and that ultimately did him in. tony on the other hand is very resilient (knock on wood!)

[Bruno]

I mean use the Hakeem argument for Parker...

Post season records:
VS Payton - 1-0


I don't think so.
:depressed :cry

[whottt]

Oh yeah..but putting Payton from that year is like saying Fisher is 3-1 against him...and Fisher had more to do with loss that than Payton. Tony destoyed Payton in games 1 and 2 of that series to the degree that Payton actually had to beg for help against him.

Kidd and Payton admitting they need help against Tony in the media = PWNT 100%. And they had no alternative to admitting it because Tony was kicking their asses when they tried to defend him man on man. Period.

[RC's Boss]

if youre going to knock him, do it right. coaches did set up their defenses to stop him, but he was injury prone and that ultimately did him in. tony on the other hand is very resilient (knock on wood!)
I'm not knocking I just think Tony is better

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well enough to know that Alvin Robertson was a shooting guard? :lol

So a shooting guard who played in the worst five year stretch in franchise history is the Spurs' best point guard of all-time?

Got it.

Thanks.



Well the "shooting guard" has better stats in his 4th yr to TP's.considering TP's cast was far superior AR was a better point/shooting guard than TP

AR 19.6
6.7 assists
2.9 steals

TP
18.8 ppg
5.7 assists
1.03 steals


So by your account AR was not a better point guard yet avged more assists with a team that was in the midst of horrible 5 yr stretch..

Y'up I'd take AR over TP for point guard

[timvp]

Well the "shooting guard" has better stats in his 4th yr to TP's.considering TP's cast was far superior AR was a better point/shooting guard than TP

AR 19.6
6.7 assists
2.9 steals

TP
18.8 ppg
5.7 assists
1.03 steals


So by your account AR was not a better point guard yet avged more assists with a team that was in the midst of horrible 5 yr stretch..

Y'up I'd take AR over TP for point guard

Johnny Dawkins was the point guard of that 31-51 team. Robertson averaged one more assist even though that Spurs team averaged 15 more points a game than this Spurs team.

And the fact that Robertson had a worse supporting cast made it easier for him to put up stats.

I find it pretty funny that you say Parker doesn't pass enough and then you point to a shooting guard as a player that is better than Parker. Especially one that had a career record as a Spur of 100 games under .500.

But yeah, whatever. I guess there has to be Spurs fans from all angles out there. Parker sucks. Too bad the Spurs don't have Brevin Knight as their starting point guard.

[T Park]

:lol

amazing.

Kids a two time all star, and fans want him out.

Genius. Absolute genius.

[nkdlunch]

Parker is AMAZING. He not only got a consistent shot in less than 2 years. He learned how to play D!!!!

He is top 5 PG in my book. I would not trade him for anyone, including Iverson/Nash/Billups because of his age.

[phxspurfan]

parker will be competing with the likes of wade, ridnour, deron williams, marcus williams and chris paul when duncan and manu are gone, and that's when he will taste quite a bit of defeat.

[RC's Boss]

parker will be competing with the likes of wade, ridnour, deron williams, marcus williams and chris paul when duncan and manu are gone, and that's when he will taste quite a bit of defeat.
No he won't... Pop and RC will draft syphyllitis ghonnoreasich and fuckamea indanusouch both now 16 year old's playing in the under 18 and virgin league and mold them into the next Jordan and pippen :drunk

[ducks]

Pop has been on Duncan to stop trying to draw fouls and just try to score for years. Pop has been on Manu about stop forcing dumb passes for years.

How much have they listened?

And when the Golden Boy Manu Ginobili joined the Spurs and Pop asked him to try to fit more into the team's style of play, Manu responded with the classic line: "This is how I play. I'm not going to change."

But then again, Spurs fan who joined the bandwagon in 2005 wouldn't know that.
yeah but that is tp fault
manu said this is the way I play I AM NOT GOING TO CHANGE
tp does what the team needs shoot pass
manu does not like to but will but will not change his style of play

[nkdlunch]

:lmao ducks u are the shit!(I don't know what u truly said though)

but u're right(I think) timvp, learn from ducks basically he is saying Pop ordered TP to play the way he does and ordered Manu to play the way he does too. If you got complaints, talk to Pop.

[RC's Boss]

Parker is AMAZING. He not only got a consistent shot in less than 2 years. He learned how to play D!!!!

He is top 5 PG in my book. I would not trade him for anyone, including Iverson/Nash/Billups because of his age.
:tu

[ShoogarBear]

I'll be waiting :hungry:First, comparing absolute assist numbers from the 70s to today is a fallacy. Just about everyone who has seen both eras agrees that statisticians were much tougher about giving out assists back then. Bascially, if the receiver did anything except go up immediately into the shot after the pass, you wouldn't get credited for the assist. When Magic and Bird came in the league, assists became a glamor stat, which eventually led to ridiculousness like Stockton's home stat-padding and Scott Skiles getting 30 assists in a game.

Second, the idea of a one-guard and a two-guard specialization is much more regimented these days than 30 years ago, so ballhandling duties and assists tended to be spread out more. Yes, you had a sprinkling of high-assist guys, but 6 APG would easily get you into the top ten almost any year.

A better comparison is the fact that Silas ranked 14th in assists the ABA in 1975 and 6th in 1975. He was also secon-team all-league in 1975 and first-team in 1976.

The mark against Silas was the fact that his career was shortened by two huge injuries in consecutive years, which happened at the age of 27, just as he was hitting his peak. Despite that he still managed to come back to put up respectable numbers for a few years, even thought he had nowhere near the same explosiveness.

And the Church of Ice never complained that he didn't pass the ball to Gervin enough.

[BgT]

First, comparing absolute assist numbers from the 70s to today is a fallacy. Just about everyone who has seen both eras agrees that statisticians were much tougher about giving out assists back then. Bascially, if the receiver did anything except go up immediately into the shot after the pass, you wouldn't get credited for the assist. When Magic and Bird came in the league, assists became a glamor stat, which eventually led to ridiculousness like Stockton's home stat-padding and Scott Skiles getting 30 assists in a game.

Second, the idea of a one-guard and a two-guard specialization is much more regimented these days than 30 years ago, so ballhandling duties and assists tended to be spread out more. Yes, you had a sprinkling of high-assist guys, but 6 APG would easily get you into the top ten almost any year.

A better comparison is the fact that Silas ranked 14th in assists the ABA in 1975 and 6th in 1975. He was also secon-team all-league in 1975 and first-team in 1976.

The mark against Silas was the fact that his career was shortened by two huge injuries in consecutive years, which happened at the age of 27, just as he was hitting his peak. Despite that he still managed to come back to put up respectable numbers for a few years, even thought he had nowhere near the same explosiveness.

And the Church of Ice never complained that he didn't pass the ball to Gervin enough.
Thanks for the post.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Johnny Dawkins was the point guard of that 31-51 team. Robertson averaged one more assist even though that Spurs team averaged 15 more points a game than this Spurs team.

And the fact that Robertson had a worse supporting cast made it easier for him to put up stats.

I find it pretty funny that you say Parker doesn't pass enough and then you point to a shooting guard as a player that is better than Parker. Especially one that had a career record as a Spur of 100 games under .500.

But yeah, whatever. I guess there has to be Spurs fans from all angles out there. Parker sucks. Too bad the Spurs don't have Brevin Knight as their starting point guard.



He didn't pass enough until the past few weeks. I have on more than one occasion have mentioned that he is getting better at looking for his teammates more. I have criticized the guy fro a couple of years for not passing it enough so Im' not just making that up. Whether Pop told him to pass more or not our team is better when he does not force things and looks to involve his teammates. For the past few weeks I have not criticized him once on shot selection or whether he is forcing his shots. In fact his numbers have steadied even after Pop asked him to alter his game. I have no doubt that the guy can become a perennial all star but he will never be able to carry a team like some here assume he can. In the end I just want to win and I feel, apparentyl Pop does also, that TP must let the game come to him rather than he feeling the need to 'taking a game over'


At this point in their respective careers I would take AR because he was an all-star as well and was a lockdown defender on a very bad team. To me ALvin Robertson was a guy who could dominate a game offensively or defensively in his prime and at this point we cannot say that about TP. TP deserves to be an all-star and I am happy that he is being recognized.