The X factor,,,,Elson

[YODA]

Tonight shows how important Francisco Elson is to the Spurs. 8 rebounds 3 blocks and solid Defense. Tim Duncan made an effort to get him involved in the game and it paid dividends. We absoluty have to have another big man have at least 8 rebounds a game. In the Spurs championship years and even last year, we always had someone beyiond duncan with over 8 rebounds a game. This year is been few and far between. Elson needs to be getting the bulk of the minutes so he can gain confidence in working with this first group. TO split their minutes is just making each feel inadeqate in their play. I see Oberto is feeling it now. Hopefully, Elson will use this game to launch his real game.........and i do mean hopefully. To sum up, Elson is the X factor.




Yoda
:meeting:

[Kori Ellis]

Elson was matched up with a SG tonight because Bowen was guarding their power forward (CButler).

I'd like to see him put up numbers in a couple games playing against an actual front court player before we all start loving him again.:lol

[YODA]

We can hope cant we??? Stealing Elsons thunder not gonna help his confidence.


Yoda

[DubMcDub]

The Spurs salvation lies in the Big 3 and some of the key bench shooters making their shots. Fransisco Elson is going to be completely marginalized in the playoffs.

[Kori Ellis]

We can hope cant we??? Stealing Elsons thunder not gonna help his confidence.


Yoda

Sure. Hope all you want.

And I don't think he's reading this so I don't think it will hurt his confidence. :lol

But yes, he looked better than normal tonight. It just wasn't that impressive.

[YODA]

Definitly better then normal, and if we have to live on just the big 3 and noone else, we might as well call it a year now. Not saying Elson is the key, but it sure would be a good start.


Yoda

[ca®lo]

ill take elsons performance tonight anyday over obertos zero rebound game against utah :)

[TDMVPDPOY]

2 bodies, 1 shadow

[Tom_Foolery]

Elson was matched up with a SG tonight because Bowen was guarding their power forward (CButler).

I'd like to see him put up numbers in a couple games playing against an actual front court player before we all start loving him again.:lol


Somehow I feel you have a slight bias against Elson. Or do you still think Oberto is the better center to start? I myself think Elson has surpassed Oberto in the development department. Oberto has been with the Spurs an entire season longer than Elson yet Elson has progressed much faster. Sorry, but I just don't think Oberto has progressed consistently as much as Elson.

By the end of the regular season, I think it will be more clear that Elson is the better center to start for the Spurs.

[LEONARD]

Elson was matched up with a SG tonight because Bowen was guarding their power forward (CButler).

I'd like to see him put up numbers in a couple games playing against an actual front court player before we all start loving him again.:lol

Kori issues a dose of reality... :clap

[MoSpur]

I think he played a great game despite of what others say. It was a lot better than 0 points and 0 rebounds in 23 minutes as someone mentioned. His three blocks were good.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

Fransico Elson might not be one of the "big 3" in San Antonio, but I think he could be the difference maker for the Spurs.

It's been well documented that the Spurs, while better of late, have not been the dominate defensive force they've been in years past. The reason most commonly given for this is the lack of a second shot blocker. The thing is... I think we've got one (another one, that is).

Elson will never be David Robinson, but he IS a shot blocker. No, not in the sense the Dikembe Mutumbo or Marcus Camby are shot blockers... but he does average better than 2 blocks (and 13 rebounds) per 48 minutes.

Even when he's not blocking shots, having a second 7-footer on the floor can certainly alter them to achieve the same result. And perhaps most importantly... he has the quickness and athleticism to stay with guys like Stoudemire and Nowitski. That menas we shouldn't have to watch Michael Finley at Power Forward this spring.

Elson's acclimation process in San Antonio hit a speed bump with the shoulder injury, but his progression definitely seemed to be back in high gear last night.

Offensively, the Spurs will be fine. They've still got Duncan in the post, Ginobili and Parker carving up the paint, and plenty of long-range bombers. It's the Spurs defensive identity that must be re-established.

In the end, Fransisco Elson will be the key ingredient in a return to suffocating, intimidating Spurs defense... one that can remain in tact against the likes of Dallas or Phoenix.

[Budkin]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59773

[ploto]

Elson will never be David Robinson, but he IS a shot blocker. No, not in the sense the Dikembe Mutumbo or Marcus Camby are shot blockers... but he does average better than 2 blocks per 48 minutes.

Not a good idea to pimp the guy with a stat at which he is 61st in the league.

[Kori Ellis]

Somehow I feel you have a slight bias against Elson. Or do you still think Oberto is the better center to start? I myself think Elson has surpassed Oberto in the development department. Oberto has been with the Spurs an entire season longer than Elson yet Elson has progressed much faster. Sorry, but I just don't think Oberto has progressed consistently as much as Elson.

By the end of the regular season, I think it will be more clear that Elson is the better center to start for the Spurs.

I have said repeatedly in the past few weeks that Elson should start because he's taller and faster. But that doesn't mean I think he's good.

Last night he looked good, but he should have looked good. He was matched up against Jarvis Hayes because of Bowen guarding their PF (C. Butler). I hope with all my heart that Elson improves, but last night's game didn't show that he has.

[mountainballer]

every team would love to have a player like Elson.... as their 3rd string center.
if he is the back-up for your starter, it should be ok.
if Elson is your starting center, the team obviously has a problem.
a decent game now and then doesn't change this fact.
it is also no offense to Elson, who is a hard working guy.
but his limits are significant and turning 31 this month, we won't see a surprising developement from Elson.
calling him a "difference maker" is just naive.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

The Spurs salvation lies in the Big 3 and some of the key bench shooters making their shots. Francisco Elson is going to be completely marginalized in the playoffs.

People are talking as though the Spurs defensive issues started this season. Actually, it started against the Mavs during the playoffs.

SA didn't have another big man on the floor other than Duncan, so Dallas went to the basket at will. I had never seen the Spurs allow that much in the paint. It was hard to watch.

The Spurs defense has always been about funneling people to their shot blockers. But without a second big man on the floor, the Spurs defensive scheme was thrown completely out of whack. Dallas purposely went right at Duncan, who was the only shot blocker, in an effort to get him into foul trouble. And it worked more than once. Things will be different in that regard when the post-season rolls around.

Not only will Elson not be marginalized in the playoffs, but that is actually when he will be of greatest value to this team. Elson allows San Antonio to play SPURS defense, which is predicated on having 2 shot blockers on the floor as often as possible.

Unlike Mohammed or Nesterovic... Elson has the quickness and athleticism to stay with guys like Nowitski and Stoudemire. And that makes him one of the 4 or 5 most valuable players on this team.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

I have said repeatedly in the past few weeks that Elson should start because he's taller and faster. But that doesn't mean I think he's good.

Last night he looked good, but he should have looked good. He was matched up against Jarvis Hayes because of Bowen guarding their PF (C. Butler). I hope with all my heart that Elson improves, but last night's game didn't show that he has.

Kori, Elson is averaging better than 2 blocks and 13 rebounds per 48 minutes. If he were playing, say... 35-40 minutes a game, he would average 10 boards and nearly 2 blocks per game. That'll do it. He just needs to stay on the floor and continue improving his team defense.

[Kori Ellis]

...Unlike Mohammed or Nesterovic... Elson has the quickness and athleticism to stay with guys like Nowitski and Stoudemire. And that makes him one of the 4 or 5 most valuable players on this team.

I agree with all that about the Mavs and not having a big on the floor etc. But so far this season, Elson has been horrible defensively. Really horrible. He is slow to rotate, in the wrong place, etc.

I think right now they are going to go with him and see if he catches on to the D (and hopefully he does). But if he doesn't (and he hasn't so far this season) then the Spurs will be right back to where they started from - going small, getting outrebounded, and having other teams own the paint.

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, Elson is averaging better than 2 blocks and 13 rebounds per 48 minutes. If he were playing, say... 35-40 minutes a game, he would average 10 boards and nearly 2 blocks per game. That'll do it. He just needs to stay on the floor and continue improving his team defense.

Please don't use rebounds per 48 as an indicator of anything. Oberto averages 12.5 rebounds per 48 too. Do you think he's a good rebounder?

It's not a great indicator when guys have so many other shortcomings that keep them off the floor.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

every team would love to have a player like Elson.... as their 3rd string center.
if he is the back-up for your starter, it should be ok.
if Elson is your starting center, the team obviously has a problem.
a decent game now and then doesn't change this fact.
it is also no offense to Elson, who is a hard working guy.
but his limits are significant and turning 31 this month, we won't see a surprising developement from Elson.
calling him a "difference maker" is just naive.

Mountainballer, Elson is not a "difference maker" because of his level of play, but simply because of the type of player he is. He's exactly what the Spurs need... a big man who can block shots and rebound, yet has the speed and atheleticism to keep the Spurs from having to go small against the run-and-gun teams. Going small is what turned the Spurs into a merely above average defensive team against the Mavs.

The "difference maker" is the Spurs ability to remain big and play Spurs defense (funnel opposing players into their shot blockers)... and Elson is the piece that allows them to do that.

[sprrs]

I have said repeatedly in the past few weeks that Elson should start because he's taller and faster. But that doesn't mean I think he's good.

Last night he looked good, but he should have looked good. He was matched up against Jarvis Hayes because of Bowen guarding their PF (C. Butler). I hope with all my heart that Elson improves, but last night's game didn't show that he has.

Aside from the fact that he was guarding an SF, how was overall defense last night? I didn't catch enough of the game to see whether or not he was making his rotations etc....and that's most people's gripe with him.

[Testing]

If Elson can play like he did in Game 1 of the season...then he can be considered an X Factor.

Until he learns to play average/good defensively, he's just another Nazr/Rasho to the team.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

I agree with all that about the Mavs and not having a big on the floor etc. But so far this season, Elson has been horrible defensively. Really horrible. He is slow to rotate, in the wrong place, etc.

I think right now they are going to go with him and see if he catches on to the D (and hopefully he does). But if he doesn't (and he hasn't so far this season) then the Spurs will be right back to where they started from - going small, getting outrebounded, and having other teams own the paint.

Kori, haven't other players (especially those coming from non-defensive-minded teams) taken a while to acclimate to the Spur's defensive system? It seems to me that Elson is not alone in that regard.

That's why I am hopeful that if Pop keeps Elson on the floor, that his team defense will improve.

Elson is not a world-class shot blocker, nor is he Dennis Rodman on the glass... but he's above average in both categories. He also has the length to alter shots and the agility to guard power forwards.

If his team defense improves, he will be just what the doctor ordered.

[cheguevara]

I still have hope Elson will learn the system by the end of the season. This would put us in great position in the playoffs. A decent starting center? wow

[sammy]

He was playing well before he injured his shoulder! All he needs is playing time! Sorry Oberto is too slow and not atheltic enough as he tries to rotate to his defender who has flown by him and he reaches in and fouls! At least Elson is athletic, can rebound and block shots! He helps Timmy when he's in the game! He will never be David Robinson, but he helps Timmy defend the paint!

[Kori Ellis]

...

If his team defense improves, he will be just what the doctor ordered.

I agree. I just haven't see any signs of that. Up until last night, he had looked like he was regressing in recent weeks.

Last night he looked good offensively because he was been spoonfed and unguarded. (Sort of like Oberto's big game against the Suns). And defensively, he was guarding Hayes.

Eventually, I just want to see him play decent against an actual front court player who guards him (and he has to guard). I want to see him stop missing the majority of the rotations. And for the love of God, I want to see him learn how to set a pick. He leaves early about 80% of the time.

[cheguevara]

hey Oberto also did a good job last night.

He played pretty good D. Man,all Spurs just killed last night. oh, except for Beno and Vaughn

[George Gervin's Afro]

Personally I really like Vaughn's energy and defense. He moves his feet pretty well and seems to be an above average on the ball defender. To bad he can't shoot... :oops

[Spurs Brazil]

I don't know if Elson will be good or not but not have Oberto playing is already a MAJOR upgrade

[Clutch20]

I've observed that the faster the player NOT familiar with Off./Def. structure of a team, the more the turnovers and mistake-prone plays that results. Elson's
speed is way past the level his knowledge of what Spurs is all about at this point. I'm firmly convinced his "walls' will be fewer and farther between as the weeks come in, provided he gets enough playing time, like Finley does.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

He was playing well before he injured his shoulder! All he needs is playing time! Sorry Oberto is too slow and not atheltic enough as he tries to rotate to his defender who has flown by him and he reaches in and fouls! At least Elson is athletic, can rebound and block shots! He helps Timmy when he's in the game! He will never be David Robinson, but he helps Timmy defend the paint!

Sammy, I agree with you. He is exactly the type of player that we need. He just needs to improve his team defense, and I think there's a good chance that will happen over the next 6-8 weeks if he just stays on the floor.

Also, he is much more adept at shooting the mid-range jumper than either Nesterovic or Mohammed. That means he can play away from the basket and clear space for Timmy offensively when needed.

[timvp]

Elson's weaknesses this year have been rebounding in a crowd, defending the low block, making the right rotations to protect the rim and scoring against physical defenders. Last night against the Wizards, he was isolated on the wing against shooting guards on defense and on offense was getting wide open dunks. I didn't take any steps back ... but didn't really take any steps forward, either.

The Magic are going to be a much better test. They have a lot of bigmen who like to score, so Elson is going to have to show up and play at a high level.

I'm happy that Elson is starting over Oberto. Oberto just doesn't bring it night in and night out often enough to start. And if you look at his +/- stats, if he's not on the floor with Manu, he's just not effective.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

The Spurs run a lot more effectively as a team when Oberto is in there, or Horry for that matter. Elson is a more effective individual player, but he doesn't fit in as well yet with the team.

[ploto]

I think right now they are going to go with him and see if he catches on to the D (and hopefully he does). But if he doesn't (and he hasn't so far this season) then the Spurs will be right back to where they started from - going small, getting outrebounded, and having other teams own the paint.
Nazr, part II.

[itzsoweezee]

i'm not worried about elson. elson's been good when given the minutes. or at least good enough. the spurs don't need much out of the center position. just someone who can rebound and defend the rim. shit like 'knowing rotations' should not be the deciding factor in who gets the minutes.


i'm more worried about bowen. anytime bowen doesn't make his shots, the spurs are in trouble. and when bowen isn't playing well, that means the spurs have to look to finley. and there's been too many games when both have played like shit.

spurs win when bowen plays well and lose when he doesn't.

[itzsoweezee]

He was playing well before he injured his shoulder! All he needs is playing time! Sorry Oberto is too slow and not atheltic enough as he tries to rotate to his defender who has flown by him and he reaches in and fouls! At least Elson is athletic, can rebound and block shots! He helps Timmy when he's in the game! He will never be David Robinson, but he helps Timmy defend the paint!


you're completely right.
at least someone gets it. hopefully pop has figured this out too.

[objective]

LOL @ Elson being a legit/good shotblocker.

He started 55 games for the Nuggets last year and went without a single block in 33 of them. He's been better with the Spurs having a block in 6 of his nine starts with a staggering 1.1 blocks per game in about 24 minutes, something I would be surprised at if it stays above 1.0 as a starter over the rest of the year.

But he's not a good shotblocker. The only reason people think and say he's a good shotblocker is because he looks like he should be good at blocking shots.

After all, he's tall, long, fast, jumps well . . . he has all the tools you'd think he'd need to be a shot-altering, ball destroying monster.

But he isn't.

[itzsoweezee]

LOL @ Elson being a legit/good shotblocker.

He started 55 games for the Nuggets last year and went without a single block in 33 of them. He's been better with the Spurs having a block in 6 of his nine starts with a staggering 1.1 blocks per game in about 24 minutes, something I would be surprised at if it stays above 1.0 as a starter over the rest of the year.

But he's not a good shotblocker. The only reason people think and say he's a good shotblocker is because he looks like he should be good at blocking shots.

After all, he's tall, long, fast, jumps well . . . he has all the tools you'd think he'd need to be a shot-altering, ball destroying monster.

But he isn't.

well, the spurs system is designed to funnel players towards the shotblockers. so i don't think it's an anomaly that his shotblocking is up with the spurs. and i expect it only to increase. like you said, he certainly has the athletic ability to be a good shotblocker. besides, the spurs don't need a monster in the lane, just someone who can be some sort of presence; as opposed to the layup line that is the spurs defense when it plays small ball.

[Big Shot Rob]

The Spurs salvation lies in the Big 3 and some of the key bench shooters making their shots. Fransisco Elson is going to be completely marginalized in the playoffs.

Role players are very important in the play-offs.

Elson needs to improve to stay as close to Dirk as humanly possible.

[Spurs Brazil]

Tonight 2pts 2rebs against big guys

Spurs bigs sucks

T-Mass and M.Bryant would do better than Oberto/Elson

[1Parker1]

More telling, THIS is the real Elson. Tonight he got a taste of having to play some defense against a REAL center and couldn't do shit. :pctoss

[Kori Ellis]

Tonight 2pts 2rebs against big guys

Spurs bigs sucks

T-Mass and M.Bryant would do better than Oberto/Elson

Yeah I'm sick of the Spurs having to go small because of having no decent big. It sucks.

[objective]

Elson and Oberto combine for 34:44, 6 points, 7 rebounds, 1 blocked shot. Way to go!

[timvp]

Too bad Elson can't be matched up with shooting guards every night.

[Das Texan]

That was a fun mirage the other night though!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

When are we going to reacquire a JR Reid type player

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

How much does Elson weigh? Do they want him to put on some pounds or keep him swift?

[conversekid]

How much does Elson weigh?

He needs to do a cycle over the summer and bulk up.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm guessing he weighs about 230-235.

[timvp]

I'd say he weights 210.

In a winter coat.

[Bruno]

Elson had to be better (I'm not defending Elson) but true centers are a tough matchup for Elson because he is too light.

When I see Spurs playoff schedule, i rather have a quick light player like Elson than a true big and slow center. The big next to Ducan will have to defend on Odom in the first round, Stoudamire/Diaw/marion in the second round and Dirk for the WCF.

Spurs' roster lacks a true center to play against Howard/Curry/Shaq/Yao. Butler is the only one close to that but he doesn't play. Let's hope we won't meet Houston or Miami in playoffs.

[exstatic]

I'd say he weights 210.

In a winter coat.
...a wet winter coat. :lol

One thing I noticed last night: he didn't have his usual advantage in transition. Darko can run with his ass!!

[ArgSpursFan]

...a wet winter coat. :lol

One thing I noticed last night: he didn't have his usual advantage in transition. Darko can run with his ass!!

Darko is the MAN!!
bring him onboard!!!!! :ihit :downspin:

[ploto]

The big next to Ducan will have to defend on Odom in the first round, Stoudamire/Diaw/marion in the second round and Dirk for the WCF.

Or Yao in the first round...

[ArgSpursFan]

i'm not worried about elson. elson's been good when given the minutes. or at least good enough. the spurs don't need much out of the center position. just someone who can rebound and defend the rim. shit like 'knowing rotations' should not be the deciding factor in who gets the minutes.

.

Well,you should now,yesterday against the Magics:2 pts,2 boards.
hey,but he shooted 50 % FG.!!!

[dbestpro]

Elson is the F factor along with every other big not named Duncan.

[Bruno]

Or Yao in the first round...

It's unlikely.

Jazz will win the northwest division but they are slowing down and shouldn't have a best record than both Spurs and Rockets at the end of the season : they will get the 4th seed.

Lakers have 3 more loss than Rockets and 4 more than Spurs and Jazz, Brown is out 6 more weeks : they should get the 6th seed.

We should have something like that at the end of the season :
1. Mavs
2. Suns
3. Spurs or Rockets
4. Jazz
5. Rockets or Spurs
6. Lakers