Spurs vs Magic Game Blog

[Solid D]

Is Bowen hurting? Only 16 minutes tonight.

[SAtown]

Why can't Finley play like this more often?

[Spurs Brazil]

Finley Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spurs Brazil]

Manuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Spurs Brazil]

TD HUGE block

[RC's Boss]

Past few games Fin has been kinda solid. maybe not each game, but for the past couple weeks he's been hitting his stride. It will be big if we can get some consistency out of him. Hope he's turned the corner.

[MannyIsGod]

Duncan is getting the raw deal on calls right now.

[angel_luv]

I'm so happy for Finley. He's kicked tail tonight. :)

[angel_luv]

Wow!

[Spurs Brazil]

Damn

[Tippecanoe]

We need to put the game away NOW
i have a feeling that if this goes down to the last shot, nelson will win it

[1Parker1]

Hi there! How are you? :)

Grrrrrrrrrreat. Maybe a little less if the Spurs lose this. :lol


How are you? :angel

[SAtown]

chingao

[MannyIsGod]

Wow, the Spurs sorely needed execution on that last play and instead Dwight Howard gets away with a huge hack.

[Trainwreck2100]

Wow, Tim got hacked

[exstatic]

Small ball is working tonight because Finley is OWNING Outlaw.

[ducks]

manu with 7 whole points tonight
lets get another couple manu!

[SAtown]

:flag: Crunchtime.

[itzsoweezee]

manu with 7 whole points tonight
lets get another couple manu!

small ball isn't working. the whole problem w/ small ball is the other team scores at will. just like what's happening now.

[1Parker1]

IF the Spurs lose this, I'd have to go the AHF route and blame Pop and his horrible lineups. He has done this continously ALL season long. His 3rd quarter linehups have been hideous. How can he not see that?

[midgetonadonkey]

small ball isn't working. the whole problem w/ small ball is the other team scores at will. just like what's happening now.

Fantastic insight.

[Spurs Brazil]

Bruce to the line

[MannyIsGod]

HUGE FUCKING BOARD!!

Yes!

[SAtown]

clutch tip out by Tim

[MannyIsGod]

IF the Spurs lose this, I'd have to go the AHF route and blame Pop and his horrible lineups. He has done this continously ALL season long. His 3rd quarter linehups have been hideous. How can he not see that?Actualy I can't fault the lineup. You didn't see the game when Nelson scored 16 straight points 1P1, so you really don't get this lineup.

[Spurs Brazil]

1/4ft

[SAtown]

Something tells me Jameer Nelson is going to take this last shot.

[maxpower]

is there anything left to say about how much this team's free throw shooting kills them in close games?

[Que Gee]

Another genius move by Popovich...why would you sub Bruce in for Barry on the offensive end coming out of a time out...I could see if the Spurs were coming back on D, but that wasn't the case...so Instead of having a top 10 Free throw shooter handling the ball, you have Bruce handling it, he gets fouled and Bruce misses both.

Coach of the Year.

[Spurs Brazil]

Defense Now

[01Snake]

I swear if they hit a 3 I am gonna puke!

[1Parker1]

Actualy I can't fault the lineup. You didn't see the game when Nelson scored 16 straight points 1P1, so you really don't get this lineup.

I saw that weird ass lineup with Jacque Vaugn AND Tony Parker in there with Finley and Duncan when the game was tied and we need to score and grab a rebound. That was enough.

Not to mention that the horrible 3rd quarter lineups which causes the Spurs to always lose large leads has been consistent throughout the season.


Damn, Parker picks a bad time to start missing FT's.

[midgetonadonkey]

I swear if they hit a 3 I am gonna puke!

I'm holding you to it if it happens. I want pictures.

[sabar]

Jameer Freaking Nelson

[01Snake]

That fucker is on fire!

[Spurs Brazil]

Tie game

5.9 to go

[angel_luv]

Wow- that was either gutsy or incredibly stupid by the magic

[midgetonadonkey]

Something tells me Jameer Nelson is going to take this last shot.

Amazing. You can see into the future.

[SAtown]

Who gets the last shot? Tony?

[E20]

How did the Spurs ever get into this situation.

[sabar]

At least they gave us a decent amount of time.

[angel_luv]

Grrrrrrrrrreat. Maybe a little less if the Spurs lose this. :lol


How are you? :angel


I'm doing okay. Staying out of trouble as much as possible. :angel

[MannyIsGod]

God damn you knew Nelson wasn't going to miss that. At least the Spurs get a chance to win it here. My pick for the shot is an inside out with Finley and Duncan with Duncan getting the first look. If you want to bring Tony off a screen roll with Duncan with Finley at the sides thats fine too, IMO but I'm not sure if you have quite enough time for that.

[lefty]

Who gets the last shot? Tony?
:nope

[maxpower]

121 of 192 visitors are in this thread

[1Parker1]

Finley at the buzzer, book it :smokin

[Spurs Brazil]

Give it to TD and he'll win the game

[lefty]

Finley at the buzzer, book it :smokin
TD

[angel_luv]

Whoa

[MannyIsGod]

Missed FTs and Jameer Nelson are the story of the 2nd half.

God damn, I hate that fucking play. HATE>

[01Snake]

Why not Finley?? Jesus

[Spurs Brazil]

Fuck

[angel_luv]

I thought Tony had it.

[sabar]

I hope we never refer to this day as 0.8.

[angel_luv]

0.8

[MannyIsGod]

Thats a really stupid play. Howard has an easy decision when Tony penetrates because there is obviously no time for a pass so he can just try to jump out of the building and block the shot that he KNOWS is coming. Weak Weak play. An outside shot would have been so much better.

[Fabbs]

Another genius move by Popovich...why would you sub Bruce in for Barry on the offensive end coming out of a time out...I could see if the Spurs were coming back on D, but that wasn't the case...so Instead of having a top 10 Free throw shooter handling the ball, you have Bruce handling it, he gets fouled and Bruce misses both.

Coach of the Year.
:clap

[lefty]

who took the shot?

[angel_luv]

Oh my gosh!!!!!!!!

[SAtown]

Fuck This Shit~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

[wildbill2u]

Why not Finley?? Jesus
You're asking for Finley when we needed Jesus.

[sabar]

Tip on the inbounds

[angel_luv]

Ouch! :depressed

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs deserved to lose this fucking game. Thats fucking horrible. You give up a fucking dunk? Wow, I'm really fucking disgusted.

[1Parker1]

Finley at the buzzer, book it :smokin

Actually, un-book it :depressed


Instead, book that the entire forum goes nuts claiming Parker sucks and is unclutch instead...:(

[dimsah]

How Could You Not Know That Was Coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dg7md]

lol, I knew that would happen.

[angel_luv]

Holy cow!

[itzsoweezee]

fuck popovich

[midgetonadonkey]

That sucks.

[Tippecanoe]

spurs suck, end of story

[maxpower]

freefuckingthrows.

[angel_luv]

Ah... :( Ouch!!!!!!!

[dg7md]

This sucks, I'm a huge fan and I can't believe how much they just don't care.

[angel_luv]

Hedo threw that pass?

[lefty]

Why did TP take the last Spurs shot? fuck u Pop

[sabar]

Finley better pull off a 0.4

[angel_luv]

0.2 go boys!

[ca®lo]

o.t.?

[Amarelooms]

lol what are the Spurs doing? Now I'll feel better if my Mavs some how lose to the Rockets...

[1Parker1]

I think I actually want to cry when I see how bad this Spurs team is....

[dimsah]

What The Fuck Was That?! How Could Tim Let Him Go Like That?

[angel_luv]

:depressed

[MannyIsGod]

How is Tim not making contact with Howard the entire fucking way? Thats such a fuck up on defense. Yeah, its a great play by Howard, but Tim should be on him the entire fucking time.

Its easy to jump when the person guarding you is 4 feet away and you can gather yourself. Thats fucking sick.

[dg7md]

Oh man, they'd be 1-4 on the RRT if not for that last second Finley shot in LA.

[sabar]

Not much you can do, that was a textbook dunk/tip off the inbounds, Howard was in the sky

[CrazyOne]

:depressed Well, that sucked big time....

[angel_luv]

I think I actually want to cry when I see how bad this Spurs team is....


That was just incredible by Howard.

The Spurs played some good ball tonight, not flawless I grant you.

[Spurs Brazil]

Spurs with a lot of mistakes

[MannyIsGod]

You can't say this team doens't care or that their that bad. This game was won more by the Magic than it was lost by the Spurs. Nelson went off hard and Dwight Howard was a beast.

That being said, the Spurs did a lot of things that allowed the Magic to win this game, namely shitty defense on that last play and missed free throws.

[The Truth #6]

suck ass

what the fuck was elson doing on the last shot? he didn't even try!

[boutons_]

Spurs couldn't make the plays, couldn't hit their FTs

Magic did everything right.

Spurs suck. Tony and Manu were pretty flat tonight. Tony's absent look told his story.

[E20]

Damn, I just lost 3125 Vbucks. SHIT

[RC's Boss]

Did Tim's hand even get above the fucking rim. That was a lazy ass jump!

[Kori Ellis]

Dwight Howard is freakin' awesome.

I know Jameer Nelson was on fire, but damn the Spurs D sucked today.

[MannyIsGod]

Elson was guarding the inbounds pass, what the fuck was he supposed to do? Move at the speed of sound to block Howard? That last play is entirely on Tim Duncan.

[dg7md]

Those 3 missed freethrows in a row is bullshit. These guys are pros and they can't be continually that bad at freethrows. It's embarrassing. If they made ONE more, they wouldn't have been in that position.

[ShoogarBear]

I hope we never refer to this day as 0.8.Asshole.

:lol

[Jobbs]

as a long time spurs fan, i'm use to last seconds shots but not last second dunks :(

[RC's Boss]

Elson was guarding the inbounds pass, what the fuck was he supposed to do? Move at the speed of sound to block Howard? That last play is entirely on Tim Duncan.
Yep!

[td4mvp21]

Do you guys want to know why we fucking suck this year? It's the coaching. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we up by double digits when Pop had two bigs in? Disregard the fact that Oberto and Elson didn't contribute much, it helps to have two bodies on the floor. And then that dumb fucking lineup to start the fourth? And then predictable small ball? Tony Parker taking a fadeaway for the WIN??? I want Tim Duncan or Finley taking the shot. Bitches, it's the coaching, if you can't see it, then you're so fucking blind. I don't give a flying fuck if Pop has three championships or what his coaching record is, the coaching holds this team back. Now we are 3-3 on a road trip we normally thrive on. Fuck that and fuck Pop.

[T Park]

I can't believe how much they just don't care.

Would it make you feel better if they threw a few towels around and cursed?

[MannyIsGod]

Its not even about Tim out jumping Howard. No one expects him to do that. BUT HAVE A BODY ON HIM SO HE CAN'T JUST JUMP OUT OF THE GYM~

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

But NO, Pop thinks we can win it this group :pctoss

[dimsah]

Christ! This is last years Milwaukee game all over again except it was Tim that decided not to guard his man instead of Rasho.

[Kori Ellis]

Those 3 missed freethrows in a row is bullshit. These guys are pros and they can't be continually that bad at freethrows. It's embarrassing. If they made ONE more, they wouldn't have been in that position.

It shouldn't come down to that. You shouldn't be up on a team by 18 points and let them get back in to the point that a couple free throws matter.

Orlando shot 55% or something.

[itzsoweezee]

spurs defense was a lay up line, again. kind of funny how that happens when they go to small ball. i wonder if there's some sort of connection? nah, can't be. popovich would've figured something as simple as that out by now, right?

[T Park]

If Ginobili shows up to the arena tonight, this is a different game.

[MannyIsGod]

That last play has really left a bad taste in my mouth.

[Spurs Brazil]

Dwight Howard is freakin' awesome.

I know Jameer Nelson was on fire, but damn the Spurs D sucked today.

magic FG-55%

[The Truth #6]

Elson was guarding the inbounds pass, what the fuck was he supposed to do? Move at the speed of sound to block Howard? That last play is entirely on Tim Duncan.


Dude, that wasn't the last play!

[1Parker1]

How is Tim not making contact with Howard the entire fucking way? Thats such a fuck up on defense. Yeah, its a great play by Howard, but Tim should be on him the entire fucking time.

Its easy to jump when the person guarding you is 4 feet away and you can gather yourself. Thats fucking sick.


I'm sure Tim was thinking don't foul him and get him to the line or for an And 1.

That was a great pass and moreover a great play by the Magic.

[RC's Boss]

Its not even about Tim out jumping Howard. No one expects him to do that. BUT HAVE A BODY ON HIM SO HE CAN'T JUST JUMP OUT OF THE GYM~
I know, but damn. You're 6'11 the clock is winding down. He could've gotten little higher than that. Earl Boykins could've gotten higher than that to at least disrupt the play somewhat.

[T Park]

So fire pop?

[gospursgooo]

From now on, a player must be fined $100,000 for every missed free throw.

[SpursFanFirst]

Hey all...
I couldn't actually watch the game, only follow the scoreboard...what was wrong with Manu?

[Kori Ellis]

Its not even about Tim out jumping Howard. No one expects him to do that. BUT HAVE A BODY ON HIM SO HE CAN'T JUST JUMP OUT OF THE GYM~

Yeah, Tim messed up.

Another big mess up by Pop was putting Bowen in on offense for Barry near the end right before Bowen got fouled and miss 2 from the line.

But really, JJ Redick going off on Manu/Barry in the first half and then Jameer going buck wild on everyone in the second half was the problem.

[MannyIsGod]

How much of that shooting was on pull up 3s or pull up jumpers though? Those are really difficult to defend, and only one person on this team is ever going to defend that well (Bowen) so I'm not sure how much better the Spurs defense will ever look on a night when the opposing team has a player(s) hitting shots of of crossovers.

[SKINNYPIMP210]

Mother Fucking Spurs.........i Guess "nothing" Will Wake Up This Team And Our Coach This Season.

[johnpaulwall21]

damnit all!!!!! damn it all to hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! here comes all the trade duncan, duncan fucked up, parker sucks, pop cant coach, manu flat, bigs noshow, 3 losses more than any other road trip, write off the season, howard and nelson owns spurs threads comin out

[txallstar]

put a damn body on howard what the hell tim? why the hell is tim watching the inbound pass when his man is running around behind him and everyone else in front of him. this team blows... just like the drob years good enough to get us hyped only to be dissappointed oh wait that was last year, now this year just sucks.

[Kori Ellis]

If Ginobili shows up to the arena tonight, this is a different game.

Yeah but if Manu shows up, then they wouldn't have gotten 18/21 from Fin/Barry.

This game was lost because of D - not offense.

[dallaskd]

tough, tough loss.

[Man In Black]

I think the last couple possesions were an issue. The guys got lax. When Tony got sent to the the line, he should've rotated the ball to his better FT shooters.

But the crux of the issue was the inability to stop Jameer and his 16 straight points to end the 3rd. UNREAL.

[td4mvp21]

So fire pop?

I'm for it at this point, a coach that is supposedly as great as him should be able to put something together. Look at what Phil Jackson is doing with the Lakers-two years ago that team was a nothing. The talent was lacking, they had mediocre bigs, hmm sound familiar? Look at them now, they overachieve.

[Das Texan]

Damn.


We sucked a big one on the defensive end tonight.


Howard is riduclious. Not much else that you can say about that.

[judaspriestess]

Spurs deserve to lose unfortunately. Until they learn to make their free throws like every other nba team..........

All they had to do was make one. :rolleyes

[ca®lo]

here comes the fire pop, spurs suck threads.

HELLO BANDWAGONS :)

[TheMulvany]

That play by the Magic was just ridiculous. Of course I want the Spurs to lose, but good god...that was sick.

[T Park]

I'm for it at this point, a coach that is supposedly as great as him should be able to put something together. Look at what Phil Jackson is doing with the Lakers-two years ago that team was a nothing. The talent was lacking, they had mediocre bigs, hmm sound familiar? Look at them now, they overachieve.



:lmao

and hire who?

[dirk4mvp]

Just saw it on ESPN. Howard CRUNKED it on duncan. :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

Duncan would have needed to jump a foot higher to disrupt that play. It just pisses me off because it basically took a perfect fucking storm for Orlando to win this game right down to the last play. The pass was perfect, the jump was perfect, Tim's D was absent, Bowen and Parker can't make free throws, and Jameer Nelson going off.

There were so many things that went the wrong way in this game. If this game happens at any other time its easy to write off, but when it happens at the point where you're trying to redefine your team and you're showing signs of putting it together it becomes much harder to swallow.

[dimsah]

Jesus. Don't you fucking mav fans still have a game to watch?

[txallstar]

duncan doesnt have mad hops to begin with, now trying to jump backwards on one leg, he had no chance

[T Park]

Yeah this one falls under the Bobcats and Bucks losses.

[johnpaulwall21]

i feel like shit now, i for sure thought we had this in the bag, it was all elliotts fault he jinxed us to hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!jk

[mavsluva]

From now on, a player must be fined $100,000 for every missed free throw.

I hope you really don't mean that. That could very well be the biggest example of ungrace that I have ever heard of. You make mistakes all of the time, just as the Spurs and everyone else in the NBA misses freethrows.

The Spurs will be just fine.

[Kori Ellis]

What sucked (again) in this game was the Spurs having to go super super small in the second half because of Elson/Oberto being non-factors.

[td4mvp21]

:lmao

and hire who?

Don't even act like your some guru at basketball knowledge, you arrogant asshole.

We have an excellent assisstant coach who knows the players and the plays. Hire Carlisemo.

[timvp]

Another game the Spurs gave away. They have been creative this year in finding ways to lose.

I don't what is worse:

1) Barry playing the worst defense that a Spur has ever played. He singlehandedly got Nelson going in the second half. In the first half, he was getting owned by JJ freakin' Redick. Anyone who ever says Barry should be the backup points should have to watch this game on loop.

2) With five seconds to go in a tied game, the last thing you want is to shoot the ball quick enough to allow the opponents to get the ball back. Horrible time manangement by Parker to shoot that with two seconds left on the clock. That is basic basketball 101 to waste all the time.

3) The Magic with .8 seconds had one play -- an alleyoop to Howard. All Duncan had to do was put a body on him and the game was going into overtime. How the hell does Duncan let him drift away from him? That was amazingly stupid.


This team is so close to turning the corner and then they have this type of elementary school breakdown.

:pctoss

[dirk4mvp]

Jesus. Don't you fucking mav fans still have a game to watch?


I think this is the game blog of the Spurs/Magic game that has taken place tonight, February 9th. I was simply commenting on the stellar play that Howard performed upon timmy.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah but if Manu shows up, then they wouldn't have gotten 18/21 from Fin/Barry.

This game was lost because of D - not offense.
And of course rebounding. I also though the Spurs had crucial late game whistles go against them.

The more I think about everything that went wrong the easier it is to say fuck it but it pisses me off becasue I really though the Spurs needd to win all five of these games in order to prove to themselves they were turning it around.

[dbreiden83080]

Another fucking lousy loss to a shitty team now we can go to Miami and lose another one. This season is a fucking disaster we need a firesale of everyone in the offseason who is not Timmy, Manu or Tony.

[Kori Ellis]

duncan doesnt have mad hops to begin with, now trying to jump backwards on one leg, he had no chance

He should have bodied him up - not tried to out jump him. Everyone knows he can't out jump him.

[IceColdBrewski]

Somebody other than Parker needs to be taking that last shot. When is Pop going to learn? That was just fuckin weak.

[sabar]

If Duncan stays on Howard it's a inbounds dish to Nelson for an uncontested layup.
Hindsight is 20/20.

[T Park]

Don't even act like your some guru at basketball knowledge, you arrogant asshole.

We have an excellent assisstant coach who knows the players and the plays. Hire Carlisemo


:lmao :lmao :lmao

yeah PJ has done such a bangup job in the pros.


Get a clue you moron.

By the way, your no guru of basketball knowledge if you want to fire your coach for another who has a mediocre to losing record in the pros.

[Kori Ellis]

And of course rebounding. I also though the Spurs had crucial late game whistles go against them.

The more I think about everything that went wrong the easier it is to say fuck it but it pisses me off becasue I really though the Spurs needd to win all five of these games in order to prove to themselves they were turning it around.

The Spurs had a big lead on the boards early - I think at the half it was 20-10 in favor of the Spurs I think. But they went small in the second half and got killed on the glass.

[Das Texan]

What sucked (again) in this game was the Spurs having to go super super small in the second half because of Elson/Oberto being non-factors.


just fucking play butler pop.


its not like he will do much worse.

[01Snake]

2) With five seconds to go in a tied game, the last thing you want is to shoot the ball quick enough to allow the opponents to get the ball back. Horrible time manangement by Parker to shoot that with two seconds left on the clock. That is basic basketball 101 to waste all the time.


This team is so close to turning the corner and then they have this type of elementary school breakdown.

:pctoss

Exactly!

[dbreiden83080]

Spurs got fucked big time by the refs on that no call when Timmy got stripped he was hacked big time and then they get the 3 pt play on the other end, horseshit no CALL.

[Manu20]

I never understand why they don't shoot the ball with no time left when the game is tied. :pctoss

[T Park]

his team is so close to turning the corner and then they have this type of elementary school breakdown.

This team honestly reminds me a whole hell of alot of the 2006 Cardinals.

They both took and played the regular season up to this point the same way.

[twincam]

FREE THROWS! FREE THROWS! FREE THROWS! FREE THROWS!

Need I say more. They did NOT lose to the Magic. They simply beat themselves once again at the charity stripe.

Same story:

blow leads
lose to medocre teams
can't hit free throws when they count
lose focus
played laid back, thinking time was on their side

[MannyIsGod]

Another game the Spurs gave away. They have been creative this year in finding ways to lose.

I don't what is worse:

1) Barry playing the worst defense that a Spur has ever played. He singlehandedly got Nelson going in the second half. In the first half, he was getting owned by JJ freakin' Redick. Anyone who ever says Barry should be the backup points should have to watch this game on loop.

2) With five seconds to go in a tied game, the last thing you want is to shoot the ball quick enough to allow the opponents to get the ball back. Horrible time manangement by Parker to shoot that with two seconds left on the clock. That is basic basketball 101 to waste all the time.

3) The Magic with .8 seconds had one play -- an alleyoop to Howard. All Duncan had to do was put a body on him and the game was going into overtime. How the hell does Duncan let him drift away from him? That was amazingly stupid.


This team is so close to turning the corner and then they have this type of elementary school breakdown.

:pctossYour last 2 points are what kill me the most because they come from the teams best players. I thought that the Spurs put Howard in the best possible situation to succeed in those 2 plays. First you give hima chance to block Tony's shot when there is no way Tony is doing anything but shooting. It's fucking criminal for Pop to put Tony in that situation there.

Secondly, Duncan has a compelte mental lapse and watches hte fucking ball instead of putting a body on Howard. With under a scond, you have to be anticipating a lob to the basket a good amount of the time - especially with a player like Howard - so why on earth would you give him an uncontested jump? God damn.

[sammy]

How do you lose a 18 point lead and allow them to come back and take the game! Missed free throws is unacceptable! Damn you Pop! Don't you understand that small ball doesn't work for us idiot! I didn't get to watch the game as I was at work, but I listened on the radio and I can't understand why he doesn't have the bigs in and keeps going small ball! Come on, we only have four athletic guys (Manu, Tim and TP, Elson), the rest are old asses who can't move or have feet of cement (Oberto)! Can I say TRADE!

[td4mvp21]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

yeah PJ has done such a bangup job in the pros.


Get a clue you moron.

By the way, your no guru of basketball knowledge if you want to fire your coach for another who has a mediocre to losing record in the pros.

Yeah, well at least I'm not an arrogant prick like you who seems to think he's better than everyone on this board, even after you had a total breakdown on this site two years ago and made a complete idiot of yourself.

I don't like Pop obviously, he is sucking at coaching this team right now. Find someone who can coach it right. How about the Hornets game a while back? Pop gets thrown out and the Spurs completely relax and come back and start playing. Pop holds the team back with his dumb lineups.

[T Park]

I guess that shooting coach aint working if the free throws was the problem.

[dimsah]

Somebody other than Parker needs to be taking that last shot. When is Pop going to learn? That was just fuckin weak.
I don't mind Tony taking the last shot if it's a good shot, but a fadeaway with a 6'10 small forward guarding you, and weakside help from an amazingly athletic 7 footer is fucking stupid.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

this is the worst spurs team of the last 10 years I don't care what anyone says


I'll be amazed if we get HCA in the first round.


Fuuuuuuuuck

[Kori Ellis]

Your last 2 points are what kill me the most because they come from the teams best players. I thought that the Spurs put Howard in the best possible situation to succeed in those 2 plays. First you give hima chance to block Tony's shot when there is no way Tony is doing anything but shooting. It's fucking criminal for Pop to put Tony in that situation there.

Secondly, Duncan has a compelte mental lapse and watches hte fucking ball instead of putting a body on Howard. With under a scond, you have to be anticipating a lob to the basket a good amount of the time - especially with a player like Howard - so why on earth would you give him an uncontested jump? God damn.

His first point is what is killing me the most :lmao

Barry got destroyed in the first half and then followed it up by worse defense in the second.

Howard made monster plays on the other two points. On Tony's shot, Howard was came from super super far away to get that block. And then obviously the last bucket was golden.

I blame the defensive lapses that got the Magic back in more than anything that happened in the last few minutes of the game.

[ducks]

Somebody other than Parker needs to be taking that last shot. When is Pop going to learn? That was just fuckin weak.
yeah because so far all the other spurs players he choice always came thru

[dbreiden83080]

Yeah, well at least I'm not an arrogant prick like you who seems to think he's better than everyone on this board, even after you had a total breakdown on this site two years ago and made a complete idiot of yourself.

I don't like Pop obviously, he is sucking at coaching this team right now. Find someone who can coach it right. How about the Hornets game a while back? Pop gets thrown out and the Spurs completely relax and come back and start playing. Pop holds the team back with his dumb lineups.

It is not POP the personell is just not there with this team. There D on the inside is awful, it is Duncan in there by himself. The bench play at so many key spots is just lousy. If Duncan was not on this team they are maybe .500.

[MannyIsGod]

The last shot needed to be a jumpshot. Why take it at Howard? WHY? Especially with how the Spurs had been shooting jumpers. Taking it inside was the worst option by far.

[T Park]

Yeah, well at least I'm not an arrogant prick like you who seems to think he's better than everyone on this board, even after you had a total breakdown on this site two years ago and made a complete idiot of yourself

:lol

fulllll meltdown in effect.



I don't like Pop obviously, he is sucking at coaching this team right now. Find someone who can coach it right. How about the Hornets game a while back? Pop gets thrown out and the Spurs completely relax and come back and start playing. Pop holds the team back with his dumb lineups.




You mean the Hornets game that they damn near lost, had it not been for a great 4th quarter performance from Ginobili?

Oops.

[RC's Boss]

Another game the Spurs gave away. They have been creative this year in finding ways to lose.

I don't what is worse:

1) Barry playing the worst defense that a Spur has ever played. He singlehandedly got Nelson going in the second half. In the first half, he was getting owned by JJ freakin' Redick. Anyone who ever says Barry should be the backup points should have to watch this game on loop.

2) With five seconds to go in a tied game, the last thing you want is to shoot the ball quick enough to allow the opponents to get the ball back. Horrible time manangement by Parker to shoot that with two seconds left on the clock. That is basic basketball 101 to waste all the time.

3) The Magic with .8 seconds had one play -- an alleyoop to Howard. All Duncan had to do was put a body on him and the game was going into overtime. How the hell does Duncan let him drift away from him? That was amazingly stupid.


This team is so close to turning the corner and then they have this type of elementary school breakdown.

:pctoss
I know, it pisses you off and makes you bite your damn nails b/c you see the teams potential to have a little more quickness to go along w/ the D, but you see them piss away games like this! I fell like Charlie Brown.... AAAAARGH! Finley is hopefully turning the corner and getting into a comfort zone, but I'm still waiting for the whole damn reg rotation to hit a stride and everytime I think they are this happens :madrun

[MannyIsGod]

His first point is what is killing me the most :lmao

Barry got destroyed in the first half and then followed it up by worse defense in the second.But Barry is what he is. He's going to do that on D from time to time. I really don't think there is much he could have done in the 2nd half because Nelson was shooting pullup Js. Only Bowen is able to stop players from shooting that shot.

[T Park]

Somebody other than Parker needs to be taking that last shot. When is Pop going to learn? That was just fuckin weak

He'll never be an all star though :lol

[ducks]

did pop tell tp to shot the ball with 2 seconds left on the clock
he might have to let duncan get the rebound if he missed
does anyone know?

[MannyIsGod]

In the end, the Spurs really are close to turning the corner. The team is 2-3 on this roadtrip so far, but I think this team is playing far better than it was earlier in the year. There truly is hope for SPAM right now.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

so i take it this road trip couldn't have gone any worse?


If I was Tim I'd ask head office to trade for some help out there, I bet this is killing him on the inside seeing the team deteriorate this badly

[RC's Boss]

Yeah, well at least I'm not an arrogant prick like you who seems to think he's better than everyone on this board, even after you had a total breakdown on this site two years ago and made a complete idiot of yourself.

I don't like Pop obviously, he is sucking at coaching this team right now. Find someone who can coach it right. How about the Hornets game a while back? Pop gets thrown out and the Spurs completely relax and come back and start playing. Pop holds the team back with his dumb lineups.
Pop is not the problem, he's not the one playing.

[objective]

It is not POP the personell is just not there with this team. There D on the inside is awful, it is Duncan in there by himself. The bench play at so many key spots is just lousy. If Duncan was not on this team they are maybe .500.

The D is just Duncan by himself but . . . he doesn't go all out on defense for fear of picking up fouls . . . so the D suffers even more.

[Kori Ellis]

did pop tell tp to shot the ball with 2 seconds left on the clock
he might have to let duncan get the rebound if he missed
does anyone know?

I'm sure he was supposed to run as much clock as possible. It just sucked because Howard came over from so far to get that block. It was just a great play by Howard.

[Man In Black]

Parker should've known better, if he was going to drive then he should've relied on Dwight Howard's penchant to roam, that should've been a play for a drive and dish to a cutter.

[timvp]

It's fucking criminal for Pop to put Tony in that situation there.

I doubt that was the play. Hedo switched off onto Parker, so Parker had a mismatch on the perimeter. I don't really care that he got blocked, I care that he didn't waste more time so that his final shoot gave no chance for the Magic to get it back.

I'll take Parker iso'ed on Hedo all day. But not with the shot coming with two seconds still left on the clock.

[T Park]

If I was Tim I'd ask head office to trade for some help out there, I bet this is killing him on the inside seeing the team deteriorate this badly

cause its just that easy to make a trade.

[1Parker1]

Another game the Spurs gave away. They have been creative this year in finding ways to lose.

I don't what is worse:

1) Barry playing the worst defense that a Spur has ever played. He singlehandedly got Nelson going in the second half. In the first half, he was getting owned by JJ freakin' Redick. Anyone who ever says Barry should be the backup points should have to watch this game on loop.

2) With five seconds to go in a tied game, the last thing you want is to shoot the ball quick enough to allow the opponents to get the ball back. Horrible time manangement by Parker to shoot that with two seconds left on the clock. That is basic basketball 101 to waste all the time.

3) The Magic with .8 seconds had one play -- an alleyoop to Howard. All Duncan had to do was put a body on him and the game was going into overtime. How the hell does Duncan let him drift away from him? That was amazingly stupid.


This team is so close to turning the corner and then they have this type of elementary school breakdown.

:pctoss


The breakdowns have a lot to do with the Spurs obviously not having the right personell to get the job done. Once again our lack of Centers killed us and our lack of backup PG I think is hurting us more than people realize. Puts a lot more pressure on Parker to get the job done and do too much which sometimes forces him to make bad errors in the 4th. Duncan looks like shit out there on defense because he has no one else helping him rebound the damn ball or even defend the paint.


What I don't understand is this: Spurs MO has ALWAYS, ALWAYS been defense first. Yet over the past two or three seasons, they've gone out and specifically recruited and designed a team of players, who while they may be veterans with plenty of offensive experience, ALL SUCK ON DEFENSE.

Finley: Came from the old Mavs, no defense team.

Barry: Can't even defend his own shadow.

Elson/Oberto: Never have been known for their defense.

Beno: Did he ever even hear the word defense when the Spurs recruited him?


These are supposedly your top 4 bench players, none of whom can play a lick of defense. How can you continue to be a defensive team when your building an aging, offensive team?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

In the end, the Spurs really are close to turning the corner. The team is 2-3 on this roadtrip so far, but I think this team is playing far better than it was earlier in the year. There truly is hope for SPAM right now.


I don't know Manny, there's definitely signs of life but every step they take forward they take another 10 back it seems. At least with last season we could have the excuse of tim's injury but this season we're just left pointing fingers

[Kori Ellis]

In the end, the Spurs really are close to turning the corner. The team is 2-3 on this roadtrip so far, but I think this team is playing far better than it was earlier in the year. There truly is hope for SPAM right now.

I have no hope for SPAM if the situation with their bigs doesn't get fixed. They are not going to do much in the postseason if they continue having to go small for huge stretches.

[Das Texan]

I loved seeing both Vaughn and Parker on the court at the same time.


I nearly wanted to stab myself.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol I just said the Spurs will peak after March, not that they were going to win it all. I still dont see how this team beats Dallas. Pheonix yes, but Dallas? No.

[ducks]

booner is going to have alot of pressure on him when he returns

[Kori Ellis]

I don't get everyone concentrating on what happened in the last couple minutes.

The Spurs were up by 18. It shouldn't have come down to one or two plays. The Spurs can't hold off teams. Even in a lot of wins, they can't hold teams off. And that's because defensively (I don't care what their opponents ppg is) this team is no where close to being good enough.

[RC's Boss]

Reggie Evans???? Earl Watson???? Why couldn't the fo make offers to these guys? Wish time machines were readily available!

[dbreiden83080]

I have no hope for SPAM if the situation with their bigs doesn't get fixed. They are not going to do much in the postseason if they continue having to go small for huge stretches.

Then they are doing nothing because Oberto and Elson are never going to get it done i can't believe we are actually missing Rasho and Nazr right now.

[timvp]

so i take it this road trip couldn't have gone any worse?


If I was Tim I'd ask head office to trade for some help out there, I bet this is killing him on the inside seeing the team deteriorate this badly

Eh ... the Spurs could easily be 5-0 on this trip. Easily.

It's just the small things keeping them from turning the corner. Parker is usually good about wasting time and I've never seen Duncan not put a body on a player with under a second to go. That teach you that in middle school.

Mental errors at the end of games is what is losing games right now for the Spurs. And stretches of poor defense is what is putting the Spurs in position to lose games.

[txallstar]

this team is done cakes. i love the spurs, im a true fan, but im going to admit reality, this team needs some help, the current roster wont get it done, not another title.

[Kori Ellis]

Then they are doing nothing because Oberto and Elson are never going to get it done i can't believe we are actually missing Rasho and Nazr right now.

Well not Nazr. :lol

[IceColdBrewski]

He'll never be an all star though :lol

He definitely isn't all star calliber, but you have all the frenchie voters creaming their shorts over him. Just goes to show what a joke the All-Star game has become.

[Das Texan]

At least Rasho was somewhat helpful on the defensive end.

[objective]

I don't get everyone concentrating on what happened in the last couple minutes.

The Spurs were up by 18. It shouldn't have come down to one or two plays. The Spurs can't hold off teams. Even in a lot of wins, they can't hold teams off. And that's because defensively (I don't care what their opponents ppg is) this team is no where close to being good enough.

Fear not.

The Spurs have a plan.

In the summer of 2008 they will make offers to free agents . . . and get turned down by their top 3 choices.

Now sure, Duncan and Ginobili will be well into the wrong side of 30.

But don't worry, the Spurs have proven that the older you are, the smaller you go!

[T Park]

Then they are doing nothing because Oberto and Elson are never going to get it done i can't believe we are actually missing Rasho and Nazr right now

Rasho and Nazr wouldn't be making a difference either.

[MannyIsGod]

Eh ... the Spurs could easily be 5-0 on this trip. Easily.

It's just the small things keeping them from turning the corner. Parker is usually good about wasting time and I've never seen Duncan not put a body on a player with under a second to go. That teach you that in middle school.

Mental errors at the end of games is what is losing games right now for the Spurs. And stretches of poor defense is what is putting the Spurs in position to lose games.I too think think that they could easily be 5-0. The errors do worry me, but overall I think they have taken a step forward everygame. If they're focusing on that and not the wins and losses themselves, then I think they'll be fine.

[Das Texan]

Just fucking play Butler.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Eh ... the Spurs could easily be 5-0 on this trip. Easily.

It's just the small things keeping them from turning the corner. Parker is usually good about wasting time and I've never seen Duncan not put a body on a player with under a second to go. That teach you that in middle school.

Mental errors at the end of games is what is losing games right now for the Spurs. And stretches of poor defense is what is putting the Spurs in position to lose games.

Fair enough, but the thing that drives me nuts is that this is a team full of veterans. It's not like we got 5 new starters in the offseason and are trying to integrate them into the fold. The core has been together for so long that unless their old age is causing amnesia, I don't understand how they have all these mental collapses so often.

[ducks]

spurs can beat dallas

spurs shooters need to shoot better
finely is starting to turn the corner
bowen needs to also
if spurs can shoot better
and dallas shooters get a little colder they can beat dallas

[MannyIsGod]

He definitely isn't all star calliber, but you have all the frenchie voters creaming their shorts over him. Just goes to show what a joke the All-Star game has become.How many NBA coaches are French?

:lol

[txallstar]

Then they are doing nothing because Oberto and Elson are never going to get it done i can't believe we are actually missing Rasho and Nazr right now.

thats what happens when every one thinks we will play 82 games against dallas. we need athletic bigs match up with the west and well those athletic bigs are still putting up the same number against the spurs...

[angel_luv]

Well not Nazr. :lol


Butterfingers. :lol

[RC's Boss]

this team is done cakes. i love the spurs, im a true fan, but im going to admit reality, this team needs some help, the current roster wont get it done, not another title.
No, it's still Feb. there is time to get i togetther. What you lack in youth and athleticism, you make up w/ smart play. SMART play is where your defense and efficiency on offense comes from. It's like they're not focused.

[1Parker1]

I don't get everyone concentrating on what happened in the last couple minutes.

The Spurs were up by 18. It shouldn't have come down to one or two plays. The Spurs can't hold off teams. Even in a lot of wins, they can't hold teams off. And that's because defensively (I don't care what their opponents ppg is) this team is no where close to being good enough.


Exactly. Spurs losing big leads and making shitty mistakes in the 4th quarter of close games is becoming a staple of the 2006-2007 team. If people expect Elson or Oberto or Bonner (:lmao) to be the savior of this team, then they will be greatly disapointed.

This is basically the same team that the Spurs had last season which got beaten by the Mavs and almost by the Kings in the first round. Except they're a year older and slightly worse on offense. Difference is, their biggest threads have gotten even tougher: Lakers, Mavs, Suns, Jazz, Rockets, etc.

[timvp]

He definitely isn't all star calliber, but you have all the frenchie voters creaming their shorts over him. Just goes to show what a joke the All-Star game has become.

So the frenchie voters voted Parker into the All-Star game?

Solid knowledge dropped in that post.

[Kori Ellis]

He definitely isn't all star calliber, but you have all the frenchie voters creaming their shorts over him. Just goes to show what a joke the All-Star game has become.

Um... You realize Parker was picked by the coaches, not any French fans right?

Or do we have some French coaches in the NBA that I'm not aware of?

[ShoogarBear]

I don't get everyone concentrating on what happened in the last couple minutes.

The Spurs were up by 18. It shouldn't have come down to one or two plays. The Spurs can't hold off teams. Even in a lot of wins, they can't hold teams off. And that's because defensively (I don't care what their opponents ppg is) this team is no where close to being good enough.I didn't get to see any of the third and most of the fourth, so I can't comment on that, but the Spurs defense was soft all night.

Howard's last block on Parker was a monster block. Are you kidding me? Look at that play again and name 2 other guys in the history of the league who could have made that block.

The last dunk was pitiful though. I didn't think anything would make me sicker than Brian Cook's dunk this year, but I was wrong.

[Das Texan]

The only game I could have seen us losing was the Phoenix game and even then we could have won it.

I still think a major factor in losing that game was simply the big guys running out of gas toward the end.

Too bad nobody else can fucking step up on a regular basis.

The Utah and now this game came down to stupid little things that you cannot do if you want to win a title.

Sure we are better than we were earlier, Timmy is playing a lot better. But we are nowhere close to being where we need to be if we are to accomplish the only goal that matters.

[ducks]

barry's high iq is not rubbing off

[fred33]

well was gino

[ShoogarBear]

Oh, yeah, and switch the lines in the box scores between Manu and Parker and who would have been getting roasted tonight?

[MannyIsGod]

I beat both KoriEllis and Timvp to defend Parker. Bitches!

[T Park]

He definitely isn't all star calliber, but you have all the frenchie voters creaming their shorts over him. Just goes to show what a joke the All-Star game has become.

:lmao

dumbass.

Voted in by the coaches, frenchie fans had nothing to do with it.

yeah 18 and 6 a game isn't all star calliber.

More Udrih > Parker brilliance.

[Extra Stout]

He definitely isn't all star calliber, but you have all the frenchie voters creaming their shorts over him. Just goes to show what a joke the All-Star game has become.
Yer dumb.

[Budkin]

I love the Magic but damn the Spurs should have won this fucking game. Blowing an 18 pt lead to a struggling team with three of its key personnel injured (Battie, Hill, Ariza)? And then finishing the game the way they did. Just fucking pathetic.
:bang Goddamn it's frustrating.

[MannyIsGod]

If Parker was a true PG he would have passed that last shot off of Howards hand into the hoop.

[RC's Boss]

So the frenchie voters voted Parker into the All-Star game?

Solid knowledge dropped in that post.
:lmao

[T Park]

Damn the lag in this forum :lol

[Kori Ellis]

I didn't get to see any of the third and most of the fourth, so I can't comment on that, but the Spurs defense was soft all night.

Howard's last block on Parker was a monster block. Are you kidding me? Look at that play again and name 2 other guys in the history of the league who could have made that block.

The last dunk was pitiful though. I didn't think anything would make me sicker than Brian Cook's dunk this year, but I was wrong.

You missed Jameer Nelson lighting up Barry like a Christmas tree.

Yeah Howard came WAYYY over for that block. It was sick. I'll be happy when he's a Spur after the 2008 plan :drunk

[Kori Ellis]

Damn the lag in this forum :lol

I'm not experiencing any lag, what kind of the ISP are you on?

[T Park]

I'll be happy when he's a Spur after the 2008 plan

:lol

[dg7md]

The Suns are our saviors this year. As long as the Mavs lose I'm alright.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

well


let's be honest


if the suns and mavs lose tonight, we can't feel TOO bad

[MannyIsGod]

Dwight Howad is disgusting. If Orlando lets him get away he's going to the Lakers. History does repeat itself. God damnit.

[ducks]

He definitely isn't all star calliber, but you have all the frenchie voters creaming their shorts over him. Just goes to show what a joke the All-Star game has become.


yeah because coaches know alot less then you

notice no other spur players were chosen by stern for 2 replacements....
and if ai can not go ray will go....

[txallstar]

spurs cant hold off teams because the bench sucks and manu keeps doing his on again off again routine until playoff time.

not saying fire pop, but the team lacks fire, maybe just maybe the team isnt respoding to pop anymore or at least not as much.

[T Park]

what kind of the ISP are you on?

It's my internet card.

Sometimes itll send the post, and then sometimes I have to retry sending the info a few times.


Damn this internet card drag :)

[1Parker1]

How many NBA coaches are French?




:lol

[ShoogarBear]

You missed Jameer Nelson lighting up Barry like a Christmas tree.

Yeah Howard came WAYYY over for that block. It was sick. I'll be happy when he's a Spur after the 2008 plan :drunkActually what was even sicker was that the ball was WAAAAYYY away from TP when he got the block. It's mind-boggling.

Why was Barry on Jameer?

[RC's Boss]

Wasted a pefectly good offensive game from Fin and Bones!

[Kori Ellis]

Dwight Howad is disgusting. If Orlando lets him get away he's going to the Lakers. History does repeat itself. God damnit.

No way. If I have been suffering watching the Spurs have no backup point guard for 3 years, two of the slowest centers in the league in Rasho/Nazr, followed up by two of the most non-existent centers in the league, and 4 years of asking for a small forward for Bruce to mentor, then Dwight Freakin' Howard is going to be a Spur. :drunk

[jbspurs]

I doubt that was the play. Hedo switched off onto Parker, so Parker had a mismatch on the perimeter. I don't really care that he got blocked, I care that he didn't waste more time so that his final shoot gave no chance for the Magic to get it back.

I'll take Parker iso'ed on Hedo all day. But not with the shot coming with two seconds still left on the clock.


c'mon now! He's timing was good, it just happened howard block the shot and got the ball right away! I bet you if it happen the other way,him wasting more time and ball bounce off the rim and not have anytime for a follow up. then you be sayin "HE WASTED TO MUCH TIME".

[ducks]

other teams know when tp goes to the bench they can start a run
the other team know this and have the confidence to do so
they then get hot then the starters have to work harder to cool them off

[T Park]

Why was Barry on Jameer?


Why was Vaughn in with parker?

Why is there war constantly in the middle east?


Never ending never answered questions...

[Das Texan]

No way. If I have been suffering watching the Spurs have no backup point guard for 3 years, two of the slowest centers in the league in Rasho/Nazr, followed up by two of the most non-existent centers in the league, and 4 years of asking for a small forward for Bruce to mentor, then Dwight Freakin' Howard is going to be a Spur. :drunk



want some more tequila maam?

[Trainwreck2100]

They wasted a good game for Barry and Finley, but it was really good to see them have a great game for once. Howard beat them on both ends today.

[Kori Ellis]

Why was Barry on Jameer?

I'm not sure. Bowen was on the bench and TP/Vaughn were on Arroyo through that stretch I believe.

Jameer went nuts. It wasn't all Barry's fault but he got him rolling - it was a repeat of his defense on Redick in the first half, but a little worse.

[T Park]

No way. If I have been suffering watching the Spurs have no backup point guard for 3 years, two of the slowest centers in the league in Rasho/Nazr, followed up by two of the most non-existent centers in the league, and 4 years of asking for a small forward for Bruce to mentor, then Dwight Freakin' Howard is going to be a Spur

We suffered with Steve Smith for 2 years.

We got Hedo :lol

[timvp]

c'mon now! He's timing was good, it just happened howard block the shot and got the ball right away! I bet you if it happen the other way,him wasting more time and ball bounce off the rim and not have anytime for a follow up. then you be sayin "HE WASTED TO MUCH TIME".

No. The buzzer should sound when the ball is in the air. He shot it with 2 seconds to go.

[Das Texan]

Hedo was supposed to be the next big thing though!

[1Parker1]

I'll be happy when he's a Spur after the 2008 plan :drunk


Only if he changes his name to Duan Howitsky. :drunk

[Kori Ellis]

So what's your prediction for the RT now? 5-3 or 2-6? :lol

[T Park]

Hedo was supposed to be the next big thing though!

Hes another JR Reid.

Has the NBA body, has an absolute disgusting amount of talent, and just can't put it together.

[timvp]

I know this doesn't really matter, but how the hell does an alleyoop to Howard take .6 seconds off the clock? You are telling me Fisher can catch, turn around and shoot in .4 but a straight Howard flush takes .6?

[Das Texan]

Good ole JR Reid.


Those were the good ole days...

[Das Texan]

I know this doesn't really matter, but how the hell does an alleyoop to Howard take .6 seconds off the clock? You are telling me Fisher can catch, turn around and shoot in .4 but a straight Howard flush takes .6?
:lol

[ShoogarBear]

I know this doesn't really matter, but how the hell does an alleyoop to Howard take .6 seconds off the clock? You are telling me Fisher can catch, turn around and shoot in .4 but a straight Howard flush takes .6?Howard has mad hang time.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, I've been drinking for some time now so I am numb to the pain. But I never want to see that last play, ever again. It really was sick.

[timvp]

So what's your prediction for the RT now? 5-3 or 2-6? :lol

Still sticking with 4-4.

Although they've played better than I imagined they would.

[ShoogarBear]

I'm not sure. Bowen was on the bench and TP/Vaughn were on Arroyo through that stretch I believe.

Jameer went nuts. It wasn't all Barry's fault but he got him rolling - it was a repeat of his defense on Redick in the first half, but a little worse.Isn't Manu supposed to be a good defender?

[T Park]

Good ole JR Reid.


Those were the good ole days...

losing in the first round to the Jazz was the good ole days? :lol

[jbspurs]

No. The buzzer should sound when the ball is in the air. He shot it with 2 seconds to go.


It was just wasn't meant!