Spurs vs. Heat -- Game Blog

[Marcus Bryant]

What in the HELL are you talking about? :lol :lol :lol

Translation:
'Whut in duh hell are yew tawlkin ahbout? :lol :lol I have colored friends...'

[dbreiden83080]

I think i might start following a new sport anybody know when Figure Skating season starts?

[ponky]

what happened in the fourth quarter? i was talking on the phone with a friend from cincy and had the tv on mute but it looked like the spurs were playing great team on wade earlier in the game. did they just stop doing that all of a sudden or what? looks like ginobili was the only guy who played hard today, i'm starting to be impressed with him the way i was when he first entered the league

[1Parker1]

Kinda hard to go after a guy thats off the board 17 picks before you make your first draft selection.

I know, but my point was more so that there's a lot of talent that the Spurs are missing out on my constantly going overseas and aquiring players who end up staying there and not helping the Spurs NOW.

[Kori Ellis]

BTW, I'm not even sure a trade will help this team at this point. Maggette may help the Spurs offensively a bit, but he's not the greatest defender. And no one else good is available that the Spurs can get.


They need to consider seriously rebuilding around our Big 3 next season.

Maggette would help.

He averages more rebounds than anyone on the Spurs other than Duncan.
He gets to the line more than anyone on the Spurs.

[ShoogarBear]

They need to consider seriously rebuilding around our Big 3 next season.That would be a 2007 Master Plan. Sorry.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://members.tripod.com/~tommywallace/scans/delnegro.gif


The Savior at backup point.

[1Parker1]

what happened in the fourth quarter? i was talking on the phone with a friend from cincy and had the tv on mute but it looked like the spurs were playing great team on wade earlier in the game. did they just stop doing that all of a sudden or what?


Wade had only 4 or 5 shot attempts in the first half. You knew he was going to take over in the 4th. I don't think anyone but himself can really stop him then. :pctoss

[Budkin]

Ah shit I totally forgot this game was on this early today. Another loss... oh well... still not giving up hope unless we pass the trade deadline with no trades.

[trueD]

Maggette would help.

He averages more rebounds than anyone on the Spurs other than Duncan.
He gets to the line more than anyone on the Spurs.
::takes notes to deliver to Petrie::

Thanks for the post Kori. :smokin

[timvp]

Back to the drawing board :pctoss

This team looked worse than ever today. They had started to play better ... but then they lay this egg. It's getting pretty disgusting at this point.

Thoughts:

-Parker needs to be more of a leader. He can't come out sleep walking in a game the Spurs really need to win. He showed up for one quarter, which isn't good enough for a championship level point guard.
-Duncan had been playing well until like the last five or six quarters. He just sucked in all possible areas.
-Manu showed energy and was trying hard. Pop needs to find a way to get him the ball more instead of running more plays for Finley.
-Finley and Barry (or Fairy if you will) suck. Finley has one good shooting game and follows it up with more crap. Barry is back to making scared mistakes and his defense is at an all-time low.
-A scary thing is this is about all you can expect about Elson and Oberto. Yeah they were pretty bad, but it was their A+ game.
-Is anyone looking more forward to Bonner coming back than Horry? Horry looks like he wants and needs to take a couple weeks off.
-It'd be nice if Bowen hit a shot every now and again. How many off games can he have in a row offensively?
-The Spurs REALLY need a backup point guard. This Vaughn and Beno combo is making me sick.

This team needs a trade and Bonner to come back better than ever if they hope to make it out of the first round.

:pctoss

[1Parker1]

Maggette would help.

He averages more rebounds than anyone on the Spurs other than Duncan.
He gets to the line more than anyone on the Spurs.

He would help, but do you think he'd be enough to get the Spurs past the Mavs/Suns?? I don't think so. I am so f-ing tired of our lack of bigman. All they have to fucking do is stand in the paint rebound the damn ball and block shots. Their jobs are considerably easier thanks to the fact that they have Tim f-ing Duncan next to them. They don't even have to score that much for us. Yet not one center we had the past two seasons: Rasho, Nazr, Elson, and Oberto can manage to grasp this simple concept. :pctoss


I wanted to throw something at Elson today watching him not even but up a fucking hand when he was defending Haslem.

[Kori Ellis]

Wade had only 4 or 5 shot attempts in the first half. You knew he was going to take over in the 4th. I don't think anyone but himself can really stop him then. :pctoss

Exactly.

But the Spurs should still be able to get a fuckin' rebound every once in a while.

[dbreiden83080]

Ah shit I totally forgot this game was on this early today. Another loss... oh well... still not giving up hope unless we pass the trade deadline with no trades.

Who do the Spurs even have to trade that will bring in somebody that can help? Who the hell is going to want Barry or Finley or Horry. I can't imagine anybody would touch Elson or Oberto either and give us back something useful.

[ponky]

Wade had only 4 or 5 shot attempts in the first half. You knew he was going to take over in the 4th. I don't think anyone but himself can really stop him then. :pctoss

yeah, i can't say that i've seen him shoot a lot of clutch game winners but he doesn't need to because he's been racking those points up in the fourth quarter...i hope the mavs remember this next week, watching this game made me freak out a *little* bit

[MannyIsGod]

I know, but my point was more so that there's a lot of talent that the Spurs are missing out on my constantly going overseas and aquiring players who end up staying there and not helping the Spurs NOW.Can you really blame them though? Yeah, we're pissed at the Euro's they've gotten that have sucked, but look at Manu and Tony. Also, don't forget they drafted Girecek (sp?), Barbosa, and they wanted to go after Kristic too. So yeah, it sucks that they keep looking overseas, but when you find something that works you keep going to it.

Drafts are hit and miss, and the best you can hope for is a team that goes outs and finds a decent amount of players that stick through the draft. The Spur's biggest mistake has been getting rid of those draft picks. Ridding themselves of Barbosa and last year's pick hurt.

[DR WU]

San Antonio is known as a multicultural mecca while Dallas is well known for its overtly redneck racist attitude. So, I was wrong to call you a herMavrodite. You are a racist herMavrodite.


I've always thought Nowitz looked like a Marfans tranny.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

-The Spurs REALLY need a backup point guard. This Vaughn and Beno combo is making me sick.

See above.

[ponky]

Who do the Spurs even have to trade that will bring in somebody that can help? Who the hell is going to want Barry or Finley or Horry. I can't imagine anybody would touch Elson or Oberto either and give us back something useful.

do you think a trade will happen? in the pre-game pop said he wasn't interested in trading his top nine guys

[ShoogarBear]

But the Spurs should still be able to get a fuckin' rebound every once in a while.I dunno.

Jason Kapono is RELENTLESS on those boards.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs need to keep their damn draft pick next year unless they are trading (and plan on keeping) Magette. Otherwise they need to use that pick to bring in a damn backup PG or big.

And fuck, play Butler and White please. Fuck it, I'm joining the rest of hte fans bitching. We really have nothing to lose at this point unless we're playing for a 2nd round showing. Worst case you look no worse than you do now, Best case you find lightning in a bottle.

[dbreiden83080]

do you think a trade will happen? in the pre-game pop said he wasn't interested in trading his top nine guys

They need to make a trade desperately this unit is clearly not good enough as is. Pop probably will stand with this team and it will be a firesale in the offseason.

[MannyIsGod]

Back to the drawing board :pctoss

This team looked worse than ever today. They had started to play better ... but then they lay this egg. It's getting pretty disgusting at this point.

Thoughts:

-Parker needs to be more of a leader. He can't come out sleep walking in a game the Spurs really need to win. He showed up for one quarter, which isn't good enough for a championship level point guard.
-Duncan had been playing well until like the last five or six quarters. He just sucked in all possible areas.
-Manu showed energy and was trying hard. Pop needs to find a way to get him the ball more instead of running more plays for Finley.
-Finley and Barry (or Fairy if you will) suck. Finley has one good shooting game and follows it up with more crap. Barry is back to making scared mistakes and his defense is at an all-time low.
-A scary thing is this is about all you can expect about Elson and Oberto. Yeah they were pretty bad, but it was their A+ game.
-Is anyone looking more forward to Bonner coming back than Horry? Horry looks like he wants and needs to take a couple weeks off.
-It'd be nice if Bowen hit a shot every now and again. How many off games can he have in a row offensively?
-The Spurs REALLY need a backup point guard. This Vaughn and Beno combo is making me sick.

This team needs a trade and Bonner to come back better than ever if they hope to make it out of the first round.

:pctossExactly. They mailed it in today. Are you scared that this team will come apart and play 500 ball for the rest of the year because I think they might.

[1Parker1]

Back to the drawing board :pctoss

This team looked worse than ever today. They had started to play better ... but then they lay this egg. It's getting pretty disgusting at this point.

Thoughts:

-Parker needs to be more of a leader. He can't come out sleep walking in a game the Spurs really need to win. He showed up for one quarter, which isn't good enough for a championship level point guard.
-Duncan had been playing well until like the last five or six quarters. He just sucked in all possible areas.
-Manu showed energy and was trying hard. Pop needs to find a way to get him the ball more instead of running more plays for Finley.
-Finley and Barry (or Fairy if you will) suck. Finley has one good shooting game and follows it up with more crap. Barry is back to making scared mistakes and his defense is at an all-time low.
-A scary thing is this is about all you can expect about Elson and Oberto. Yeah they were pretty bad, but it was their A+ game.
-Is anyone looking more forward to Bonner coming back than Horry? Horry looks like he wants and needs to take a couple weeks off.
-It'd be nice if Bowen hit a shot every now and again. How many off games can he have in a row offensively?
-The Spurs REALLY need a backup point guard. This Vaughn and Beno combo is making me sick.

This team needs a trade, Bonner to come back better than ever if they hope to make it out of the first round.

:pctoss


Good points, I honestly feel (and this is just a gut feeling) Duncan and Parker have gotten increasingly frustrated since that horrible Jazz game. They've both been playing well all season long and when they do give it their all in a game, no one else seems to step up outside out big3 and we get a Loss.

Bowen looks like he has Barryitis. He's looking so scared to shoot the 3 pointer and instead tries to drive to the lane for a shot out of his range or he passes it to player late in the shotclock who is then forced to jack up a bad shot. That's been the story for our Big 3 all season long. Barry/Bowen/Oberto/Elson all do this, they pass open shots and then pass it to one of our big 3 who is forced to take a tough shot.

[sanman53]

Im not able to hear the postgame comments, but I can bet what they say. Seems like they say the same thing after every loss. Comments like:

'Miami played good ball today, Wade is a great player . . .'

'We just made to many mistakes . . .'

I am really tired of hearing the same crap said after every game.

I think they have no desire and passion when they play.

[boutons_]

"make a trade"

the Spurs are so far away from good basketball that one new (gotta be great) player won't make ANY difference. The new player won't know the Spurs system so very probably wouldn't be effectve (enough) to be of season-reversing help.

a Feb trade is fucking fool's gold.

[dbreiden83080]

Exactly. They mailed it in today. Are you scared that this team will come apart and play 500 ball for the rest of the year because I think they might.

They have too much pride for that they will finish i think 3 or 4 and bow out early in the playoffs unless a miracle occurs.

[MannyIsGod]

Too much Pride? They've been playing .500 ball for a month and a half now. Where is the pride?

[ShoogarBear]

Im not able to hear the postgame comments, but I can bet what they say. Seems like they say the same thing after every loss. Comments like:

'Miami played good ball today, Wade is a great player . . .'

'We just made to many mistakes . . .'

I am really tired of hearing the same crap said after every game.

I think they have no desire and passion when they play.Pop broke out the "soft" speech in his pregame interview.

Maybe he needs to break out a "pussy" speech.

Of course, some of that would have to be directed at the front office.

[Kori Ellis]

Good points, I honestly feel (and this is just a gut feeling) Duncan and Parker have gotten increasingly frustrated since that horrible Jazz game. They've both been playing well all season long and when they do give it their all in a game, no one else seems to step up outside out big3 and we get a Loss.

True, the way they looked after that game was the worst I've seen them after a loss.

But if that's the case, they need to sack up and regroup.

This team needs a trade but they probably aren't going to get it. So what has to happen is Manu, Tony and Tim need to bring their A game every single night. The Magic game, Manu was horrible. Today Tim sucked and Tony was inconsistent. They all have to get on the same page.

[phxspurfan]

we are witnessing a slow decline.

[Budkin]

One of the main problems is that we rarely have a game where everyone plays well together on the same night. It's always like 2 guys alone and everyone else is asleep.

[1Parker1]

Can you really blame them though? Yeah, we're pissed at the Euro's they've gotten that have sucked, but look at Manu and Tony. Also, don't forget they drafted Girecek (sp?), Barbosa, and they wanted to go after Kristic too. So yeah, it sucks that they keep looking overseas, but when you find something that works you keep going to it.


How long ago was Manu? That's the last time the Spurs got someone useful from the draft...that was over 4 years ago. So where are they finding newer, younger talent from all these years? No where, that's why they're in the situation they're in right now.

[Budkin]

we are witnessing a slow decline.

It shouldn't be happening this fast. Not with the big three we have. It's the result of the FO trying to save money.

[P-O-Z]

yeah, i can't say that i've seen him shoot a lot of clutch game winners but he doesn't need to because he's been racking those points up in the fourth quarter...i hope the mavs remember this next week, watching this game made me freak out a *little* bit
next week will be a kick ass game :clap

[MannyIsGod]

BTW, the Bowen regression on offense has really hurt this team. Over the past few years that has become something they count on. When Bowen started adding the mid range moves to his game he actually became a great offensive threat in the Spurs O. Now he can't even hit his corner 3s.

[SAtown]

This team needs a trade but they probably aren't going to get it. So what has to happen is Manu, Tony and Tim need to bring their A game every single night.

That's asking for way too much. They're going to have their off nights, while the rest of the bunch continue to struggle. We can't ask for 3 guys to make everything right. I know it's a very obvious statement but it's actually happening and it's pissing everyone off.

[phxspurfan]

a Feb trade is fucking fool's gold.


sad but mostly true. the only beneficial late trade i can think of lately was when the pistons got rasheed wallace.

[timvp]

Exactly. They mailed it in today. Are you scared that this team will come apart and play 500 ball for the rest of the year because I think they might.
Nah, I'm not quite to that point yet. The Spurs usually figure these things out to where they can put up a respectable regular season record.

As far as the playoffs, though, this team as it's composed isn't going to win sh!t. The talent around the big three is horrid and the big three don't even bring it each night. Parker lost points in my book for coming out today and playing like he didn't care to start off the game, Duncan has had more mental errors this year than any other year and I don't think Manu can sustain playing at the 2005 level anymore.

[Budkin]

Another pathetic rebounding game

We can easily loss in the 1st round this season

You can't win games without rebounding and D... which we don't have.

[MannyIsGod]

How long ago was Manu? That's the last time the Spurs got someone useful from the draft...that was over 4 years ago. So where are they finding newer, younger talent from all these years? No where, that's why they're in the situation they're in right now.How many picks have they traded in that time 1p1? 3 first rounders! The only one they kept was the Beno pick. And yeah, Beno sucks righ tnow but they were going after Nelson who was a domestic pick that was taken before they had a chance to grab him. Plus I think Beno's suckage is more on him than on any lack of talent.

Don't complain about what they do with their 2nd round picks. 2nd round picks are crapshoots at best.

[FromWayDowntown]

How long ago was Manu? That's the last time the Spurs got someone useful from the draft...that was over 4 years ago. So where are they finding newer, younger talent from all these years? No where, that's why they're in the situation they're in right now.

Actually, Parker is arguably the last productive draft pick (2001). Manu was chosen in 1999.

I guess you could argue that the Spurs got a positive out of their 2002 draft pick by trading Salmons to Philly for Speedy Claxton, too.

Still, the front office's notion that the Spurs haven't really needed any young players infused into the roster and that draft picks are better used on Euro projects has now raised its ugly head as a shortsighted decision.

[1Parker1]

True, the way they looked after that game was the worst I've seen them after a loss.

But if that's the case, they need to sack up and regroup.

This team needs a trade but they probably aren't going to get it. So what has to happen is Manu, Tony and Tim need to bring their A game every single night. The Magic game, Manu was horrible. Today Tim sucked and Tony was inconsistent. They all have to get on the same page.

You're right, but even if Parker, Manu, and Tim all bring their A game, Spurs are still losing. They're basically playing 3 on 5 right now and you can't have that. Also, that still doesn't help them on the defensive end where they just can seem to get any stops in the 4th quarter when they need to. Manu/Parker/Duncan can bring their A games and score at will every game....but it's not going to help the team get many more win's, IMO. I think they realize that and are getting increasingly frustrated. I saw Parker scream at Elson a lot today telling him where to get in position and set the screen. :lol

[NBABaller]

Another pathetic rebounding game

We can easily loss in the 1st round this season

and you will...

1st round exit in the horizon

[Marcus Bryant]

Ridding themselves of Barbosa and last year's pick hurt.

Barbosa (or JHoward), David Lee, and Daniel Gibson (or Paul Millsap) would help out a lot right about now...

[Trainwreck2100]

BTW, the Bowen regression on offense has really hurt this team. Over the past few years that has become something they count on. When Bowen started adding the mid range moves to his game he actually became a great offensive threat in the Spurs O. Now he can't even hit his corner 3s.

He cost us the Mavs game AND the Jazz game

[Kori Ellis]

BTW, the Bowen regression on offense has really hurt this team. Over the past few years that has become something they count on. When Bowen started adding the mid range moves to his game he actually became a great offensive threat in the Spurs O. Now he can't even hit his corner 3s.

Bowen is in a shooting slump but I think it has very little to do with the Spurs lack of success lately.

They are losing games because opponents are shooting over 50% against them and have double-digit rebounding advantages.

They aren't losing because Bowen is averaging 4 points a game lately instead of 7.

[phxspurfan]

btw anybody notice timmy's favorite 5 spurs story at halftime? his favorite 5 were something like manu, tony, malik, daniels and robinson. its like they ripped the soul out of this team by getting rid of malik.

[ponky]

next week will be a kick ass game :clap

i'm looking forward to it, hopefully it will be the mavericks doing the kicking! :lol i did sell my tickets though for a HUGE sum of money because i needed to make the downpayment on my playoffs tix so i'll have to make do with my tv...but at least the beer's cheaper! :toast

[Trainwreck2100]

Barbosa was pheonix's pick, the Spurs couldn't trade their pick so they did an end around that rule and just drafted the guy Pho. wanted

[1Parker1]

Actually, Parker is arguably the last productive draft pick (2001). Manu was chosen in 1999.

:shootme You're right. But my point still stands...it's so frustrating. For all the talk about how great the Spurs front office is at IDing great talent overseas....their last one was almost 6 years ago. Since then they have gotten almost no quality from the draft directly.

[mabber]

what happened in the fourth quarter? i was talking on the phone with a friend from cincy and had the tv on mute but it looked like the spurs were playing great team on wade earlier in the game. did they just stop doing that all of a sudden or what? looks like ginobili was the only guy who played hard today, i'm starting to be impressed with him the way i was when he first entered the league

Wade just started asserting himself and making shots (that for the most part were well defended). Wade was mostly just deferring to his teammates in the first half. As a Mav fan, I'd think you could understand that after watching him do it to the Mavs for 5 games straight. The guy is purdy good.

[ShoogarBear]

I posted a breakdown of the Spurs drafts over the last decade but I can't find it because Kori turned off the search function. :lol

[Kori Ellis]

I posted a breakdown of the Spurs drafts over the last decade but I can't find it because Kori turned off the search function. :lol

:wtf

No I didn't. What the hell?

[dbreiden83080]

Too much Pride? They've been playing .500 ball for a month and a half now. Where is the pride?

You just changed arguments you were talking about the rest of the year and i said i don't see them laying down like that. This is a team with guys on it that have won multiple rings they are not going to phone the rest of the season in.

[MannyIsGod]

The Malik trade was horrid any way you spin it. The Spurs win the title that year with Malik and they don't lose the draft pick they sorely need.

I think one of the reasons you won't see a trade this year is that the Spurs do not want to rid themselves of anymore picks. They're history of doing that has been their worst decision in recent history and it shows big time through this years roster.

[timvp]

Good points, I honestly feel (and this is just a gut feeling) Duncan and Parker have gotten increasingly frustrated since that horrible Jazz game. They've both been playing well all season long and when they do give it their all in a game, no one else seems to step up outside out big3 and we get a Loss.

I don't think that's it. Parker played his best basketball of the year to start the season. Duncan had a huge stretch where he played like crap. Manu started off the season pretty horrible.

You can't pin-point one game in which the tide turned. It's basically inconsistent play by the big three, inconsistent coaching and a supporting cast that would go 0-82.

Having one decent player who can produce on both sides of the court outside of the big three would really help. A Devin Brown or Stephen Jackson type role player would do wonders. Who is the fourth best all-around basketball player on the Spurs?

Sadly enough, it might be Beno Udrih :depressed

[1Parker1]

btw anybody notice timmy's favorite 5 spurs story at halftime? his favorite 5 were something like manu, tony, malik, daniels and robinson. its like they ripped the soul out of this team by getting rid of malik.


:lol I heard that. The announcer was like what kind of list is that? No iceman?

[leemajors]

kapano had as many boards as duncan? hahahahahahaha

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

:wtf

No I didn't. What the hell?

Search is gone, KE. It's not on the CP banner. I thought you were still doing it during games, that's why I hadn't mentioned anything before.

[Budkin]

BTW... why the hell aren't we playing Eric Williams? Isn't he known for his D and rebounding?

[Kori Ellis]

Search is gone, KE. It's not on the CP panel. I thought you were still doing it during games, that's why I hadn't mentioned anything before.

LJ just turned it off today about 15 minutes ago. I think that's the first time it's been off this year.

[MannyIsGod]

You just changed arguments you were talking about the rest of the year and i said i don't see them laying down like that. This is a team with guys on it that have won multiple rings they are not going to phone the rest of the season in.No, I'm saying that if pride is what is going to keep them from playing like a 500 team, then why isn't it doing that now? Where is this pride going to come from? This isn't a short losing streak, this is a month and a half of poor basketball. Pride isn't going to change that.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Kori you need to use your lobbying powers of the spurstalk army and submit a huge email to the spurs front office saying we are all die hard fans but we feel like we're being betrayed by the owners for not putting up some sort of effort to surround the greatest NBA player of all time with enough talent to make a serious run.

[MannyIsGod]

The only reason I can see that they don't play Williams is because they have already made up their minds that he will not be a Spur at the end of the year so they don't want to count on him.

If thats the case, then by all means I'm ready to rag on Holt because it is fucking retarded to make that decision when the guy might be able to help.

[1Parker1]

I don't think that's it. Parker played his best basketball of the year to start the season. Duncan had a huge stretch where he played like crap. Manu started off the season pretty horrible.

You can't pin-point one game in which the tide turned. It's basically inconsistent play by the big three, inconsistent coaching and a supporting cast that would go 0-82.



But don't you think our Big 3's inconsistency has a lot to do with the fact that for the past month they've basically been playing 3 on 5 out there? They're trying to do too much all by themselves because no one else has stepped up. You're right that they never all seem to play great together, agains the Magic, Manu was a no show. Today it was Duncan/Parker. But I think inconsistent coaching and a horrible supporting cast is more to blame. Our big 3 have always been inconsistent (Well maybe not duncan making so many mental mistakes)

[Marcus Bryant]

The only reason I can see that they don't play Williams is because they have already made up their minds that he will not be a Spur at the end of the year so they don't want to count on him.

If thats the case, then by all means I'm ready to rag on Holt because it is fucking retarded to make that decision when the guy might be able to help.

When business gets in the way of basketball part MXXIV.

[timvp]

LJ just turned it off today about 15 minutes ago. I think that's the first time it's been off this year.

It's back.

I think the search function, like the Spurs, didn't feel like showing up for the fourth quarter.

:smokin

[ShoogarBear]

:wtf

No I didn't. What the hell?Okay, it's back now, but I KNOW it wasn't there a few minutes ago.

I know you had said the search causes a lot of drain, so I figured you shut it off during heavy loads.

[1Parker1]

Why not try out Butler?? :pctoss


Even if he's fat and doesn't know the system and is rusty, he's GOT to be an improvement or at least equal to Elson/Oberto!! :pctoss :pctoss

[1Parker1]

It's back.

I think the search function, like the Spurs, didn't feel like showing up for the fourth quarter.

:smokin

:lol

[dbreiden83080]

No, I'm saying that if pride is what is going to keep them from playing like a 500 team, then why isn't it doing that now? Where is this pride going to come from? This isn't a short losing streak, this is a month and a half of poor basketball. Pride isn't going to change that.

What i am saying is the effort is not going to change they are going to keep playiing hard and competing and i think they are talented enough to finish the season pretty strong. A team that has accomplished less together would be more inclined to lay down when things are going this shitty, the Spurs are better than that.

[MannyIsGod]

Then why haven't they shown it? If they can do better, why aren't they?

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't think that's it. Parker played his best basketball of the year to start the season. Duncan had a huge stretch where he played like crap. Manu started off the season pretty horrible.

You can't pin-point one game in which the tide turned. It's basically inconsistent play by the big three, inconsistent coaching and a supporting cast that would go 0-82.

Having one decent player who can produce on both sides of the court outside of the big three would really help. A Devin Brown or Stephen Jackson type role player would do wonders. Who is the fourth best all-around basketball player on the Spurs?

Sadly enough, it might be Beno Udrih :depressed

DBrown was available. But he was 'lazy' or whatever. So now his lazy ass is putting up 12 and 5 a night for the Hornets. The Spurs could have some young role players (or a rising star, in the case of JHoward) but $ got in the way. You don't hear the front office mentioned in high regard as it once was in the national media. But it's not all their fault, they are just playing the hand they've been dealt by ownership.

[Kori Ellis]

Why not try out Butler?? :pctoss


Even if he's fat and doesn't know the system and is rusty, he's GOT to be an improvement or at least equal to Elson/Oberto!! :pctoss :pctoss

He's not even really fat anymore.

I think almost anyone in the NBA is better than Elson/Oberto. So I hope he gets playing time soon.

[1Parker1]

He's not even really fat anymore.

Really? Then what's the latest on why Pop's not giving him any playing time?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

He's not even really fat anymore.

I think almost anyone in the NBA is better than Elson/Oberto. So I hope he gets playing time soon.

For some reason, the auto-subs in my NBA 2K7 bring in Butler at the backup PG over Beno/Vaughn - maybe they've got an inside secret. :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

Really? Then what's the latest on why Pop's not giving him any playing time?


2008 Master Plan, pay attention

[MannyIsGod]

DBrown was available. But he was 'lazy' or whatever. So now his lazy ass is putting up 12 and 5 a night for the Hornets. The Spurs could have some young role players (or a rising star, in the case of JHoward) but $ got in the way. You don't hear the front office mentioned in high regard as it once was in the national media. But it's not all their fault, they are just playing the hand they've been dealt by ownership.Don't change history, JHoward was about Kidd not saving money.

[Marcus Bryant]

Really? Then what's the latest on why Pop's not giving him any playing time?

That's just Pop being Pop. Jack hardly saw the court his first year in SA. In the next he was hitting title clinching shots.

[ShoogarBear]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1403279&postcount=38


Here are the year-by-year "significant" acquisitions by the Spurs in the Tim Duncan era. *=player 25 or younger, ()= did not win (or has not yet won) a ring with the Spurs.

98 Tim Duncan*, Malik Rose*, Jaren Jackson
99 Antonio Daniels*, Mario Elie, Steve Kerr, Jerome Kersey
00 (Samaki Walker*), (Terry Porter),
01 (Derek Anderson*), Danny Ferry
02 Tony Parker*, Stephen Jackson*, Bruce Bowen, Steve Smith
03 Emmanuel Ginobili*, Speedy Claxton*, Devin Brown*, Kevin Willis, Steve Kerr
04 (Hidayet Turkoglu*), Radoslav Nesterovic, Robert Horry "Missed out on": Barbosa*, Howard*
05 Beno Udrih*, Nazr Mohammad, Brent Barry "Missed out on": Nocioni*
06 (Michael Finley), (Nick Van Exel), (Fabricio Oberto)
07 (Jackie Butler*), (Francisco Elson), (Matt Bonner)

You can see that from 1998 until 2004, the Spurs were pretty much on a roll. Every year they picked up at least one under-25 player of reasonable quality who at least played significant minutes. And of course were able to supplement them with a solid veteran, but I would argue that the bulk of the heavy lifting was done by the young guys and not the veteran FA pickups.

However, given the so-far negative trend in Beno and the question marks about Butler (and the fact that Hedo didn't pan out), the Spurs have no significant young talent additions since Manu. And it's interesting to note that eveyone perceptions on the players they "missed out on" coincides exactly with that time.

The jury's still out on Scola, Mahinmi, and Javtokas but it's extremely doubtful any of them will turn out to be near the quality of Barbosa, Howard, and Nocioni.

So did the Spurs just have a lucky streak that was bound to come to an end, have they just gotten worse in their ability to draft young talent, or has the competition just caught up with them?

[MannyIsGod]

For some reason, the auto-subs in my NBA 2K7 bring in Butler at the backup PG over Beno/Vaughn - maybe they've got an inside secret. :lol:lmao

:(

[Marcus Bryant]

Don't change history, JHoward was about Kidd not saving money.

Right, it was about saving cap room in a given year to after star free agents (ie Kidd).

[Kori Ellis]

For some reason, the auto-subs in my NBA 2K7 bring in Butler at the backup PG over Beno/Vaughn - maybe they've got an inside secret. :lol

Well he does have good hands. :lol

[DubMcDub]

Kori you need to use your lobbying powers of the spurstalk army and submit a huge email to the spurs front office saying we are all die hard fans but we feel like we're being betrayed by the owners for not putting up some sort of effort to surround the greatest NBA player of all time with enough talent to make a serious run.

Michael Jordan plays for the Spurs?

[Cherry]

:cry :bang :madrun :( :dizzy

[dbreiden83080]

Then why haven't they shown it? If they can do better, why aren't they?

Why didn't the Heat play better last year when they easily could have who the fuck knows you want a magic answer to that question. What i am sure of is they are better than this not title contenders but better than this and are gong to start playing better before the year is out.

[MannyIsGod]

It isn't that the Spurs have drafted too many forgien players, its that they've tried to do it all with free agency and vets as opposed to bringing in players through draft picks as well. They lost that balance.

[Marcus Bryant]

Shit, forgot about Noicioni (just like the front office).

[timvp]

What was classic in a sad way was Eddie Jones coming in and beating the Spurs. The one washed up perimeter player the Spurs don't have beats them.

:rollin :cry

[1Parker1]

You know what I don't get? How the heck are the Rockets managing to win games and be #1 defensively in the league with no Yao? They have f-ing Rafar Alston as their starting PG. That team is full of scrubs and they're still getting the job done.

[1Parker1]

What was classic in a sad way was Eddie Jones coming in and beating the Spurs. The one washed up perimeter player the Spurs don't have beats them.

:rollin :cry


:lol Damn, I knew the Spurs should have gone after him.

[dbreiden83080]

Michael Jordan plays for the Spurs?

Probably meant best PF of all time.

[MannyIsGod]

Right, it was about saving cap room in a given year to after star free agents (ie Kidd).Yeah, but when you just say it was about money you are trying to frame it as though it was the FO being cheap. It was nothing of the sort.

Either way, it was a stupid move and I don't think anyone will disagree with that.

They need to actually draft somone next year.

[MannyIsGod]

You know what I don't get? How the heck are the Rockets managing to win games and be #1 defensively in the league with no Yao? They have f-ing Rafar Alston as their starting PG. That team is full of scrubs and they're still getting the job done.Eh? The Rockets have a good solid team and with the way Mutumbo has played why would they miss Yao on the defensive end?

[timvp]

The Malik Rose trade is a big reason why this team is so old. Trading two first round draft picks just to salary dump a player was beyond stupid. Mohammed was decent ... however plug in any veteran bigman in there and the Spurs win that championship.

What an amazingly stupid trade.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Why have the basketball gods blessed such a respectable franchise with the cheapest peice of shit owners in basketball today? Why have they blessed such a detestable abortion of a city like Dallas with an owner who wants to pay for anyone to help his team win?

arghgh

[Marcus Bryant]

The Malik Rose trade is a big reason why this team is so old. Trading two first round draft picks just to salary dump a player was beyond stupid. Mohammed was decent ... however plug in any veteran bigman in there and the Spurs win that championship.

What an amazingly stupid trade.

...yet so many here cheered that one.

They could have two useful young role players plus the perfect small ball big.

[MannyIsGod]

The Malik Rose trade is a big reason why this team is so old. Trading two first round draft picks just to salary dump a player was beyond stupid. Mohammed was decent ... however plug in any veteran bigman in there and the Spurs win that championship.

What an amazingly stupid trade.Remember how everyone was propping the Spurs for ripping Isiah Thomas with that trade? Guess Crazy Isiah got the last laugh.

[timvp]

Remember how everyone was propping the Spurs for ripping Isiah Thomas with that trade? Guess Crazy Isiah got the last laugh.
Yeah David Lee >>>>> the 8 or so decent games the Spurs got out of Nazr.

[1Parker1]

Eh? The Rockets have a good solid team and with the way Mutumbo has played why would they miss Yao on the defensive end?

I meant, they're still winning games and getting the job done! They get offense and defense from everyone.

[MannyIsGod]

Man, I know I hate it when people call Holt cheap, but the Malik Rose trade is enough of a reason to hate Holt's cheapnes. Fuck bitching about the 2008 plan, that single trade got rid of a good player for Nazr fucking Mohammed and also gave away the short term future with those draft picks. All because you didn't want to pay a guy. Fuck.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

The BIG THREE ARE FRUSTRATED

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2005/05/26/inside2005-05-26-spurs.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

I meant, they're still winning games and getting the job done! They get offense and defense from everyone.Yeah, because them losing Yao isn't that big of a hit. They have Mutumbo to fill in on defense and they're team isn't bad. TMac can carry a team on offense but having Battier helps too. The Rockets are a good team with or wihout Yao.

[SequSpur]

Man, I know I hate it when people call Holt cheap, but the Malik Rose trade is enough of a reason to hate Holt's cheapnes. Fuck bitching about the 2008 plan, that single trade got rid of a good player for Nazr fucking Mohammed and also gave away the short term future with those draft picks. All because you didn't want to pay a guy. Fuck.

umm.. who was the "good" player?

[DubMcDub]

Why have the basketball gods blessed such a respectable franchise with the cheapest peice of shit owners in basketball today? Why have they blessed such a detestable abortion of a city like Dallas with an owner who wants to pay for anyone to help his team win?

arghgh

Oh sweet irony.

[Budkin]

Remember how everyone was propping the Spurs for ripping Isiah Thomas with that trade? Guess Crazy Isiah got the last laugh.

Oh well, at least it helped us win another championship that year.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

This player has now become completely useless and is a burden on floor. He does NOTHING on the offense and makes the Spurs play 4 on 5. On the defensive end where he is sooooooooo "valuable" he guards Wade and Wade drop EIGHTEEN fucking points in the 4th.


"BUT WAIT, when Bowen's on the floor the Spurs are +whatever", do you think maybe, JUST maybe that's because Pop plays Bowen when some guy Tim Duncan is also on the floor? And Bowen just differs the his player to Duncan? :rolleyes


He got his 2 titles, his 1st team Defense All NBAs, now that we are cringing every time he shoots the ball, and get lit up regularly by the top players in the NBA, and that he is very old, the Spurs need to bid him goodbye. If the Spurs had GM with brains Bowen, Barry, Beno, Fin, would all have been gone by now.



It truly sucks to Manu/Timmy/Tony ALL in their prime being are surrounded by complete garbage.


Duncan has a bad offensive game(11pts) and we got blown out by the Heat. Manu has an off night against the Magic and we blow 16pts lead and lose the game....Notice something? When the 3 man team isn't clicking on all cylinders we lose.

[SequSpur]

I don't agree with everything you said, but in order to get a good player, you're going to have to give up something worthy.

[wildbill2u]

I dunno.

Jason Kapono is RELENTLESS on those boards.
Look at the positioning of the Heat Forwards playing against Bowen. They completely ignored Bowen and shaded in to the lane about 15 feet right up to the line about halfway between the FT line and baseline. Puts them in good position for any defensive rebound on that side.

Not to mention they also help double team Tim and close down the lane for TP and Manu.

Meanwhile Bowen's watching the game from 23 feet away.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

I don't agree with everything you said, but in order to get a good player, you're going to have to give up something worthy.



Bowen would be a valuable player in a trade for a lot teams, but the Spurs have made seem like an untouchable

[dbreiden83080]

Oh for god's sake i am so sick of hearing this crap about Holt being cheap. This is the same owner that approved offering Jason Kidd a 100 plus mil contract to come to the team. The same owner that gave Tony an extra 6 or 7 mil more then he wanted too so that extension got signed. Name me one player the Spurs had to have that Holt refused to pony up the cash for? Please don't give me some shit player i mean a difference maker.

[ploto]

Oh well, at least it helped us win another championship that year.
There is no proof that the Spurs could not have won with Malik Rose instead of Nazr. Actually, with both Tim and Rasho getting hurt was the perfect time for Rose who always played well when guys got hurt. When Tim got hurt the year before, both Malik and Rasho played really well. Could you imagine what would happen to this team if Tim got hurt?

[MannyIsGod]

I thought my days of being pissed off at Nazr were over when the son of a bitch left this offseason, but now my anger at the fucker has reached a new peak.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh for god's sake i am so sick of hearing this crap about Holt being cheap. This is the same owner that approved offering Jason Kidd a 100 plus mil contract to come to the team. The same owner that gave Tony an extra 6 or 7 mil more then he wanted too so that extension got signed. Name me one player the Spurs had to have that Holt refused to pony up the cash for? Please don't give me some shit player i mean a difference maker.

$6 or 7 mil? More like $2 mil and that was after he was ready to let Tony walk over that. Pop had to go to the media with that. When has Pop ever done that before or since?

[Kori Ellis]

The same owner that gave Tony an extra 6 or 7 mil more then he wanted too so that extension got signed.
He gave Tony 2M extra after being begged by Pop and Tim. But I get your point.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh for god's sake i am so sick of hearing this crap about Holt being cheap. This is the same owner that approved offering Jason Kidd a 100 plus mil contract to come to the team. The same owner that gave Tony an extra 6 or 7 mil more then he wanted too so that extension got signed. Name me one player the Spurs had to have that Holt refused to pony up the cash for? Please don't give me some shit player i mean a difference maker.It was 2 million not 6 or 7.

[SequSpur]

There is no proof that the Spurs could not have won with Malik Rose instead of Nazr. Actually, with both Tim and Rasho getting hurt was the perfect time for Rose who always played well when guys got hurt. When Tim got hurt the year before, both Malik and Rasho played really well. Could you imagine what would happen to this team if Tim got hurt?

Rose hadn't played a minute in 2 years and had 30 mill left on his deal...

I know Pop is dumb, but that wasn't dumb move. Malik didn't make the allstar team in the East like timvp predicted.

[MannyIsGod]

It was dumb. Nazr didn't give them anything extra. And those 2 draft picks would sure as hell be nice!

[timvp]

$6 or 7 mil? More like $2 mil and that was after he was ready to let Tony walk over that. Pop had to go to the media with that. When has Pop ever done that before or since?

Yeah when Pop is speaking out against his boss, you know something is up. He's military and on top of that not known to whine.

But Holt holding out over $2M over 6 years was a low point even for him.

[ShoogarBear]

Look at the positioning of the Heat Forwards playing against Bowen. They completely ignored Bowen and shaded in to the lane about 15 feet right up to the line about halfway between the FT line and baseline. Puts them in good position for any defensive rebound on that side.

Not to mention they also help double team Tim and close down the lane for TP and Manu.

Meanwhile Bowen's watching the game from 23 feet away.Yeah, Bowen's deficiencies on the boards have been well documented, and at least before he would hit the three enough to make them pay for doubling off of him.

But now he isn't really hitting the three, or teams are able to recover on him fast enough that he end sup putting the ball on the floor and trying to penetrate, which isn't the recipe for success.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Oh for god's sake i am so sick of hearing this crap about Holt being cheap. This is the same owner that approved offering Jason Kidd a 100 plus mil contract to come to the team. The same owner that gave Tony an extra 6 or 7 mil more then he wanted too so that extension got signed. Name me one player the Spurs had to have that Holt refused to pony up the cash for? Please don't give me some shit player i mean a difference maker.



LMAO, he only gave 2 extra million, and that was only after the franchise Tim Duncan begged him to stop being a cheap bastard and pay up

[GrandeDavid]

A friend and business associate, season ticket holder to the Heat near courtside, was at the game and just called me as I was logging in to see who won. He was classy about it, but I don't care. I know this Spurs team has serious problems if it considers itself a contender. Oh well.

[Marcus Bryant]

Like Rose would've given the team less in the '06 WCSF than Mohammed did.

[dbreiden83080]

It was 2 million not 6 or 7.

And all that money he offered to Jason Kidd come on guys he is not cheap they have had the tools to win consistantly over the years.

[ShoogarBear]

:lmao :lmao

Kori has a sig!

[MannyIsGod]

Bowen's poor offense is hurting this team more than most realize. I'm not saying its the reason we're losing, but it sure isn't helping the cause one bit. Bowen becomes much less valuable to this team when 1) the team defense sucks so bad and 2) his offense sucks so bad.

[Kori Ellis]

Bowen's poor offense is hurting this team more than most realize. I'm not saying its the reason we're losing, but it sure isn't helping the cause one bit. Bowen becomes much less valuable to this team when 1) the team defense sucks so bad and 2) his offense sucks so bad.

He's averaging 4 points over the last 6 or 7 games instead of 7 (his average). It's not that drastic.

The main thing that's hurting the Spurs is not rebounding.

[timvp]

And all that money he offered to Jason Kidd come on guys he is not cheap they have had the tools to win consistantly over the years.

Even if Kidd signed with the Spurs, the Spurs would still be under the luxury threshold. The only difference is the Spurs would have had to let Manu walk and would have traded Parker.

[ploto]

And all that money he offered to Jason Kidd come on guys he is not cheap they have had the tools to win consistantly over the years.
Kidd was about one thing-- what Free Agent Tim Duncan wanted.

[Marcus Bryant]

Bowen's poor offense is hurting this team more than most realize. I'm not saying its the reason we're losing, but it sure isn't helping the cause one bit. Bowen becomes much less valuable to this team when 1) the team defense sucks so bad and 2) his offense sucks so bad.

Yeah, when they aren't getting much out of Finley/Barry then there's more pressure on him to produce offensively.

[wildbill2u]

Bowen is in a shooting slump but I think it has very little to do with the Spurs lack of success lately.

They are losing games because opponents are shooting over 50% against them and have double-digit rebounding advantages.

They aren't losing because Bowen is averaging 4 points a game lately instead of 7.
It isn't just a matter of a few less points per game.

Teams have decided to simply ignore Bowen (who's watching the game from 23 feet away)and opponents are clogging the lane with another defender--taking away drives from TP and Manu and double or triple teaming Tim. That hurts the offensive game of all our big three.

The only way Parker & Manu were scoring after the half was to fire away outside or early in transition before the Heat could set up with their extra man in the lane.

And opponents are getting extra rebounds because they have more players in the paint with Bowen's man sloughing off.

They are playing man-to-man with 4 players and Bowen's man in a virtual zone defense.

[dbreiden83080]

Even if Kidd signed with the Spurs, the Spurs would still be under the luxury threshold. The only difference is the Spurs would have had to let Manu walk and would have traded Parker.

But who have they desperately had to have that they did not get? They won 3 titles in a span of 7 years and i never heard any talk of Holt being this cheap ass outside of this forum.

[MannyIsGod]

He's averaging 4 points over the last 6 or 7 games instead of 7 (his average). It's not that drastic.

The main thing that's hurting the Spurs is not rebounding.It is when the threat isn't there. I wonder if he's also shooting more or where his shots are coming from now? There is more to it than those stats show.

[Kori Ellis]

It isn't just a matter of a few less points per game.

Teams have decided to simply ignore Bowen (who's watching the game from 23 feet away)and opponents are clogging the lane with another defender--taking away drives from TP and Manu and double or triple teaming Tim. That hurts the offensive game of all our big three.

The only way Parker & Manu were scoring after the half was to fire away outside or early in transition before the Heat could set up with their extra man in the lane.

And opponents are getting extra rebounds because they have more players in the paint with Bowen's man sloughing off.

They are playing man-to-man with 4 players and Bowen's man in a virtual zone defense.

Sorry, but I still believe that even if Bowen was nailing shots, if the Spurs let opponents shoot over 50% from the floor, score over 100 points and beat them on the glass by double-digits, they are going to lose.

[Marcus Bryant]

But who have they desperately had to have that they did not get? They won 3 titles in a span of 7 years and i never heard any talk of Holt being this cheap ass outside of this forum.

Yeah, because TP was on a rookie deal and Manu was on that small 2 year deal. As soon as it came time to pay then this team got stupid.

[MannyIsGod]

It isn't just a matter of a few less points per game.

Teams have decided to simply ignore Bowen (who's watching the game from 23 feet away)and opponents are clogging the lane with another defender--taking away drives from TP and Manu and double or triple teaming Tim. That hurts the offensive game of all our big three.

The only way Parker & Manu were scoring after the half was to fire away outside or early in transition before the Heat could set up with their extra man in the lane.

And opponents are getting extra rebounds because they have more players in the paint with Bowen's man sloughing off.

They are playing man-to-man with 4 players and Bowen's man in a virtual zone defense.That is a really interesting observation.

[ploto]

I didn't read the whole thread-- did you hear the great news during the game? Horry wants to play another year!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

He's averaging 4 points over the last 6 or 7 games instead of 7 (his average). It's not that drastic.

The main thing that's hurting the Spurs is not rebounding.


I think he's alluding to the defense against the spurs when Bowen is not making at least 1 three here and there....then instead of 4 on 5 we play 3 on 5.

[MannyIsGod]

I didn't read the whole thread-- did you hear the great news during the game? Horry wants to play another year!Won't be in a Spurs uniform.

[Kori Ellis]

I didn't read the whole thread-- did you hear the great news during the game? Horry wants to play another year!

He's been saying that for the last month or so. What was weird is they said he said his contract is up after this season, which by all records online, it's not.

[timvp]

Last seven games, Bowen is shooting 30% from the field and 14% (4-for-28) from beyond the arc. The scary thing to me is Bowen has supposedly had back stiffness during this stretch.

If the Spurs lose Bowen to injury, age or ineffectiveness, this team gets swept in the first round.

[dbreiden83080]

Yeah, because TP was on a rookie deal and Manu was on that small 2 year deal. As soon as it came time to pay then this team got stupid.

Last time i checked Manu and Tony both cashed in with the Spurs when the time came.

[Kori Ellis]

Last seven games, Bowen is shooting 30% from the field and 14% (4-for-28) from beyond the arc. The scary thing to me is Bowen has supposedly had back stiffness during this stretch.

If the Spurs lose Bowen to injury, age or ineffectiveness, this team gets swept in the first round.

It's just a slump. Every Spur has gone thru them this year. He'll work through it.

It's not concerning to me like the D or rebounding at all.

[timvp]

Last time i checked Manu and Tony both cashed in with the Spurs when the time came.

The time wouldn't have come if Kidd was signed.

[ploto]

He's been saying that for the last month or so. What was weird is they said he said his contract is up after this season, which by all records online, it's not.
It has been my understanding that he has another year in his deal. It supposedly has a pre-arranged buy-out figure for that last year and people thought he would take it and retire.

[Marcus Bryant]

Last time i checked Manu and Tony both cashed in with the Spurs when the time came.

...and the supporting cast has turned to shit. Figure it out.

[SequSpur]

Last seven games, Bowen is shooting 30% from the field and 14% (4-for-28) from beyond the arc. The scary thing to me is Bowen has supposedly had back stiffness during this stretch.

If the Spurs lose Bowen to injury, age or ineffectiveness, this team gets swept in the first round.

Are you Bowen's marketing director?

Bowen is one of the main problems on this team. He may be the only trade value the Spurs have besides Parker and Duncan.

[Kori Ellis]

It has been my understanding that he has another year in his deal. It supposedly has a pre-arranged buy-out figure for that last year and people thought he would take it and retire.

True. But on the broadcast they said Horry said people think he's going to retire because his contract is up after this season.

[MannyIsGod]

My god please don't tell me Horry will be around for another year. Please. Please.

My heart can only take so much.

[Kori Ellis]

My god please don't tell me Horry will be around for another year. Please. Please.

My heart can only take so much.

Well by all records online, he has another year on his contract. But today on the broadcast, they indicated otherwise.

[SequSpur]

Horry is done also.

[timvp]

It has been my understanding that he has another year in his deal. It supposedly has a pre-arranged buy-out figure for that last year and people thought he would take it and retire.

I believe that Horry has only part of his salary guaranteed. But if the 2008 plan is in effect in the summer, Horry will be brought back.

You can't sign NBA bigmen to one-year contracts. Well, at least ones who have a chance to be better than Elson or Oberto.

[timvp]

Are you Bowen's marketing director?

Bowen is one of the main problems on this team. He may be the only trade value the Spurs have besides Parker and Duncan.

Only in sequland does a player have trade value because they suck.

[dbreiden83080]

...and the supporting cast has turned to shit. Figure it out.

Explain it to me they won 63 games last year and a title the year before what is their to figure out? Spurs not spending money is not the reason they are losing now.

[Kori Ellis]

Only in sequland does a player have trade value because they suck.

Notice how he also doesn't think Manu has trade value.

Sequ is a candidate for all-ignore :lol

[SequSpur]

Only in sequland does a player have trade value because they suck.

Well before they play too many road games and the word gets out, someone still has to remember him as a defensive stopper of some sort. :lol

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I was laughing when they mentioned that Horry tidbit. Are you serious?

Maybe he believes we're not gonna win it this year so he's banking on some 2008 move, and wants at least ONE last hurrah. It's a good call on Horry's part. I don't blame him for looking ahead of this season. :lol

[timvp]

Explain it to me they won 63 games last year and a title the year before what is their to figure out? Spurs not spending money is not the reason they are losing now.

If the Spurs were willing to pay, they could have a backup point guard like Derek Fisher. If the Spurs weren't so eager to salary dump Malik's contract, they'd actually have some young players in the rotation.

If the Spurs had David Lee, it might be the Spurs up 9 games on Dallas instead of the other way around.

:smokin

[MannyIsGod]

:lol @ all ignore

[SequSpur]

Notice how he also doesn't think Manu has trade value.

Sequ is a candidate for all-ignore :lol

:meeting:

[Kori Ellis]

:meeting:

That's your wife and two daughters. Notice how you aren't at the table.

It's not because you are too short and we can't see you (though that's a logical conclusion), it's because they have you on all-ignore.

:reading

[Marcus Bryant]

Explain it to me they won 63 games last year and a title the year before what is their to figure out? Spurs not spending money is not the reason they are losing now.

...and they exited in the 2nd round with Michael Finley starting at the 4. What's the upside of this season?

[SequSpur]

That's your wife and two daughters. Notice how you aren't at the table.

It's not because you are too short and we can't see you (though that's a logical conclusion), it's because they have you on all-ignore.

:reading

:sleep :sleep

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

timvp........now i know why you had much manlove for Reggie (despite his nut grabbing habits :lol ) . He would kill on this team! Take last night for example, 10 rebounds in 20 minutes, and thats pretty normal for him (he aveages 7.8rpg in 19mpg this season)

[Kori Ellis]

timvp........now i know why you had much manlove for Reggie (despite his nut grabbing habits :lol ) . He would kill on this team! Take last night for example, 10 rebounds in 20 minutes, and thats pretty normal for him (he aveages 7.8rpg in 19mpg this season)

Yeah and you guys left the Spurs with Elson :madrun

[dbreiden83080]

...and they exited in the 2nd round with Michael Finley starting at the 4. What's the upside of this season?

In a 7 game barnburner that easily could have gone their way if they went back to finals last year are we even having this conversation?

[Kori Ellis]

In a 7 game barnburner that easily could have gone their way if they went back to finals last year are we even having this conversation?

Yes because the Spurs would have lost to Miami because they couldn't rebound.

[Marcus Bryant]

In a 7 game barnburner that easily could have gone their way if they went back to finals last year are we even having this conversation?

If if if if

[timvp]

Yeah and you guys left the Spurs with Elson :madrun

It's no mistake that post number 666 in this thread is about Elson . . .

There's a reason why he was the 12th man on the Nuggets last year. If he goes up against an actual NBA bigman, he looks like a wayward fan who stumbled onto the court.

I knew he sucked but what I didn't factor in to it was how damn skinny he is.

:pctoss

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

I have never seen a player miss more wide open layups then Oberto




Scola would have been a god send to the Spurs

[Amare_32]

If I was a Spurs fan I would be concerned. You lost to a vastly inferior team today. They managed to keep Wade of the free throw line and kept Kapono in check and still lost by 15. In fact they lost to a team that was blown out by Cleveland the worst shooting team in the NBA last Friday night.

[timvp]

I have never seen a player miss more wide open layups then Oberto

I thought Oberto played one of his better games of the season. Which, in itself, tells a lot about the current center situation.

[Kori Ellis]

It's no mistake that post number 666 in this thread is about Elson . . .

There's a reason why he was the 12th man on the Nuggets last year. If he goes up against an actual NBA bigman, he looks like a wayward fan who stumbled onto the court.

I knew he sucked but what I didn't factor in to it was how damn skinny he is.

:pctoss

What's funny to me is how he can't rebound in traffic AT ALL. If anyone is anywhere near him, he has absolutely no chance whatsoever.

Yet if he has an open rebound with no one around him, he jumps a little extra high, gets a little saucy, and puts out his elbows to accentuate that he's actually done something. :lol I guess that fools some people into thinking he's good.

[dbreiden83080]

If if if if

Way to state your case i highly doubt when Manu hit that three in game 7 you were thinking that Holt is a cheap fuck and is killing this team.

[Kori Ellis]

Way to state your case i highly doubt when Manu hit that three in game 7 you were thinking that Holt is a cheap fuck and is killing this team.

He's been calling Holt cheap for 4 years, so I don't think that game going one way or another would have changed his mind.

[Marcus Bryant]

Way to state your case i highly doubt when Manu hit that three in game 7 you were thinking that Holt is a cheap fuck and is killing this team.

What more needs to be said? They shouldn't have even been in that position. How can you honestly look at this team so far this season as a serious contender?

[dbreiden83080]

What more needs to be said? They shouldn't have even been in that position. How can you honestly look at this team so far this season as a serious contender?

I don't but not because they did not spend money in the offseason they overated some of their pickups and some other guys they thought had more left in the tank have regressed this year.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't but not because they did not spend money in the offseason they overated some of their pickups and some other guys they thought had more left in the tank have regressed this year.

They lost both of their centers, who while not great, are better than what they have now. You don't do that if you are trying to improve the team. You do that if every fucking move you make with the supporting cast today revolves around the $.

[1Parker1]

What's funny to me is how he can't rebound in traffic AT ALL. If anyone is anywhere near him, he has absolutely no chance whatsoever.

Yet if he has an open rebound with no one around him, he jumps a little extra high, gets a little saucy, and puts out his elbows to accentuate that he's actually done something. :lol I guess that fools some people into thinking he's good.

:lmao :lmao I'm visualizing this as I read it, and you are absolutely right.

[Kori Ellis]

:lmao :lmao I'm visualizing this as I read it, and you are absolutely right.

:lol Isn't it true?! He acts like a bad ass when he rebounds and no one is within five feet of him.

[Amare_32]

if i were a suns fan, i would be more concerned, than if i were a spurs fan.

whats your record against the top 4 in the west? 1 and what? i forgot.
can you remind me?

Unlike the Spurs the Suns swept the Heat. FYI the Suns/Spurs have split the both games thus far. Don't worry we get 2 more cracks at the Mavs.

[timvp]

:lol Isn't it true?! He acts like a bad ass when he rebounds and no one is within five feet of him.

How about today when he somehow fumbled a rebound with no one near him, threw an outlet pass to nobody, ran it down and then kicked the ball out of bounds.

:shootme

[dbreiden83080]

They lost both of their centers, who while not great, are better than what they have now. You don't do that if you are trying to improve the team. You do that if every fucking move you make with the supporting cast today revolves around the $.

2 center that DNP in the Mavs series at all. Like i said they overated their pickups in the offseason Elson being the biggest mistake they made. This is the same Elson people were going crazy for after the opening night win in Dallas. They did not get rid of Nazr and Rasho just to save money they tried to upgrade and it has not worked out.

[objective]

Man, I know I hate it when people call Holt cheap, but the Malik Rose trade is enough of a reason to hate Holt's cheapnes. Fuck bitching about the 2008 plan, that single trade got rid of a good player for Nazr fucking Mohammed and also gave away the short term future with those draft picks. All because you didn't want to pay a guy. Fuck.



Sad thing is that apparently Malik has an ETO this summer (early termination option).

So in order to get luxury tax relief he can get cut this summer and not owe LT on his 7.1 in 08 and 7.6 in 09.

Now his contract is not such an outrage.


SORRY, MY BAD, incorrect

[Marcus Bryant]

2 center that DNP in the Mavs series at all. Like i said they overated their pickups in the offseason Elson being the biggest mistake they made. This is the same Elson people were going crazy for after the opening night win in Dallas. They did not get rid of Nazr and Rasho just to save money they tried to upgrade and it has not worked out.

:yawn. So what do they do after the series? Make their center position worse. It's not like they don't need a decent center in today's NBA. They weren't trying to "upgrade" last summer.

As for Elson, he was a shit pickup, the kind of signing you make if you aren't committed to making your supporting cast the best because of the almighty $.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Elson was a fan favourite in Denver but the fans knew he was only a 3rd string Center. He had some great games as a starter and filled the hole when camby was out (nene was out also of course), but i think we loved hyping him up like alot of teams do with their role players :lol

Obviously the system in Denver suited him coz it is basically 'go with the flow' :lol

Heck even Jamal Sampson looks good when he gets time on the court. He grabs a heap of rebounds and gets some nice buckets inside. In his only decent game time (17 minutes vs Seattle) this season he got 7pts and 9boards :smokin

[Marcus Bryant]

lol

Sad thing is that apparently Malik has an ETO this summer (early termination option).

So in order to get luxury tax relief he can get cut this summer and not owe LT on his 7.1 in 08 and 7.6 in 09.

Now his contract is not such an outrage.

'W T F?' if true. (I thought that was a player option).

[angel_luv]

Not the score I wanted to come home to. :(

I feel sorry for Gino- all those points and a loss is a huge bummer.

[dbreiden83080]

:yawn. So what do they do after the series? Make their center position worse. It's not like they don't need a decent center in today's NBA. They weren't trying to "upgrade" last summer.

As for Elson, he was a shit pickup, the kind of signing you make if you aren't committed to making your supporting cast the best because of the almighty $.

Right and your big FA signing the Spurs were too cheap to go out and get was who exactly?

[1Parker1]

:lol Isn't it true?! He acts like a bad ass when he rebounds and no one is within five feet of him.


:lol And you know what else he does? As he's sticking out his elbows, he sort of squats down and looks left then right like saying "Yea, that's right, I got dis" :eyebrows

[Marcus Bryant]

Right and your big FA signing the Spurs were too cheap to go out and get was who exactly?

Reggie Evans. Shit, keeping Nesterovic for $6 mil a season or whatever is better than what they have now. Plus with their expiring contracts they should be able to find a deal with a team looking to move a long term contract and pick up some quality talent. The last two major trades the Spurs have made (Rose and Nesterovic) were first and foremost about $, not about making this team better. The Spurs are now paying the price for that.

Some of us foresaw this day. Others are finally seeing the light for the first time. And a few are still in denial.

[Bruno]

lol

Sad thing is that apparently Malik has an ETO this summer (early termination option).

So in order to get luxury tax relief he can get cut this summer and not owe LT on his 7.1 in 08 and 7.6 in 09.

Now his contract is not such an outrage.

Get a clue ETO are players options.

And for everybody who sais that the Rose trade wasn't a great trade, they should realize that Spurs have given 2 late first to save $20M and that last year Portland has bought a late first for $3M.

[objective]

edit

My mistake, I was wrong about Malik

[Marcus Bryant]

Get a clue ETO are players options.

And for everybody who sais that the Rose trade wasn't a great trade, they should realize that Spurs have given 2 late first to save $20M and that last year Portland has bought a late first for $3M.

That's fucking awesome. I really enjoyed watching $20MM play on the court today.

[Bruno]

That's fucking awesome. I really enjoying watching $20MM play on the court today.

The trade in itself was good.
After you can blame Spurs FO for not having spend the money they have saved with this trade on other players.

[timvp]

And for everybody who sais that the Rose trade wasn't a great trade, they should realize that Spurs have given 2 late first to save $20M and that last year Portland has bought a late first for $3M.

A. If the Spurs really wanted to salary dump Rose, they could have traded him and Rasho for Nazr and Kurt Thomas. At least Kurt Thomas is a pretty good NBA player.

B. They would have eventually been able to move Malik for less than two first rounders. Hell, right now he'd probably be starting.

C. Even if the Spurs did save $20M, how many championships did the $20M win and why should Spurs fans care if Holt had profited $230M off the Spurs rather than $250M?

[dbreiden83080]

Reggie Evans. Shit, keeping Nesterovic for $6 mil a season or whatever is better than what they have now. Plus with their expiring contracts they should be able to find a deal with a team looking to move a long term contract and pick up some quality talent. The last two major trades the Spurs have made (Rose and Nesterovic) were first and foremost about $, not about making this team better. The Spurs are now paying the price for that.

Some of us foresaw this day. Others are finally seeing the light for the first time. And a few are still in denial.

Nobody was saying keep Rasho after the playoffs last year we all knew he was done in SA and everyone said good riddance when that day came. As for the Rose trade they got Nazr and he played well for the Spurs in that postseason where again Rasho was a total non-factor. So what you were saying about that trade not about making them better is wrong since last i checked they won the title in 05.

[Marcus Bryant]

The trade in itself was good.

Not really. They gave up two 1st round picks to use on young players and lock them in at low salaries as well as a big who was the kind you'd want to play against Dallas for a player who they had no intention of re-signing.



After you can blame Spurs FO for not having spend the money they have saved with this trade on other players.

Right. Where are the results? A little here for Elson, Butler. In the meantime they let Mohammed walk and then dumped Rasho. You only do that if you are about something else other than winning. It's not like the Spurs have a lot of time left. There's about 2 seasons left with the current top 3 to win championships. Looks like the Spurs opted to piss that away in order to make a few more $s. Disgusting.

[Marcus Bryant]

Nobody was saying keep Rasho after the playoffs last year we all knew he was done in SA and everyone said good riddance when that day came. As for the Rose trade they got Nazr and he played well for the Spurs in that postseason where again Rasho was a total non-factor. So what you were saying about that trade not about making them better is wrong since last i checked they won the title in 05.

Yeah, they won the title in '05 when Horry hadn't been stricken with the rheumatis....

[1Parker1]

Damn, as a sidenote anyone watching the Cavs/Lakers game? Kobe is sick.

I forgot what it's like to watch a team have varied offense and have contributions from other players.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Damn, as a sidenote anyone watching the Cavs/Lakers game? Kobe is sick.

I forgot what it's like to watch a team have varied offense and have contributions from other players.




yeah, it is odd seeing a team with more then 3 reliable players

[Bruno]

A. If the Spurs really wanted to salary dump Rose, they could have traded him and Rasho for Nazr and Kurt Thomas. At least Kurt Thomas is a pretty good NBA player.

B. They would have eventually been able to move Malik for less than two first rounders. Hell, right now he'd probably be starting.

C. Even if the Spurs did save $20M, how many championships did the $20M win and why should Spurs fans care if Holt had profited $230M off the Spurs rather than $250M?

A. I think that first round picks were too included in the extended deal. Anyway, Spurs could have done a better deal but this one was good.

B. Malik was an old 6/4 6'5" PF with $30M left on his contract. He was quite unatractive and you have no clue if Spurs could have move his contract without giving up 2 first rounders.

C. See my previous answer to MB.

[Marcus Bryant]

Damn Bruno, for once pull your head out of your CBA. The team made itself worse after that trade. What does it have left? Oh yeah, extra profits for ownership.

I Love This Game.

[1Parker1]

yeah, it is odd seeing a team with more then 3 reliable players


More so than that, we're sorely lacking a 4th quarter player who just takes over. Manu has been too inconsistent. Parker does his damage in the first 3 quarters. And it seems like Duncan just disappears in the 4th quarter of these recent losses.

You look at almost every successful team in the NBA, and they have a go to guy they can depend on in the 4th. In 2005, that was Duncan/Manu for the Spurs. This season we really don't have anyone.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

What does it have left? Oh yeah, extra profits for ownership.

.




the Spurs management is all about cutting costs and saving money

[Bruno]

a big who was the kind you'd want to play against Dallas

Who ? Romain Sato (who was cut because of this trade) ?

[Marcus Bryant]

Also, Spurs fans seem to think that this team has all the time it wants. It doesn't. By '08 the title window for this team will be closed. And in '08 TD is a free agent. It would be really awesome if TD opted to leave in '08 in disgust. Why should he stay? He doesn't have a supporting cast. He's already done everything in SA he could have ever wanted to. Plus, changing teams will do nothing to hurt his stature. If anything, it would give him the opportunity to burnish it by making a title run with another franchise. He's already established himself as one of the best ever. Sound far fetched? Don't forget that TD was on that plane to Orlando the first time. Maybe next time he doesn't come back.

[Marcus Bryant]

the Spurs management is all about cutting costs and saving money

Uh, yeah. :lol That's the point.

[objective]

Also, Spurs fans seem to think that this team has all the time it wants. It doesn't.

Very true.

Ever since the summer I've had the same feelings I had when the Spurs wasted Robinson's prime years with Charles Smith, Carl Hererra, Negele Knight, Sidney Green etc etc etc

[Cherry]

I feel sorry for Gino- all those points and a loss is a huge bummer.

That´s poison for Gino. He can play good or bad, but is hard to see him in this situation. There is no team.

[ploto]

Explain it to me they won 63 games last year and a title the year before what is their to figure out?

As for the center position- even the Spurs themselves admitted that Elson and Oberto weren't going to be as good as Nazr and Rasho. You don't upgrade a position by choosing two third-stringers from the previous season.

[Don Quixote]

Hahahahah another loser living in the past. I knew you'd all start in on that.

The Celtics have 10x the titles that the Spurs have, so the Celtics own you by your own lame logic.

And by the way, DALLAS has a lot more rings than you do. Where are your Super Bowl titles? That's right. You don't even have a team. Get your own team and get off the Cowboys' bandwagon. No one said you could jump on.

That will be 15 yards for unnecessary, irrelevant football reference.

Nobody here has anything against City of Dallas anyway.

(1) When was the last time the Celtics won anything? It's not like they've accumulated their titles recently. (However, they still deserve a ton of respect for what they did back in the 60's.)

(2) I don't recall any Celtics Fans lurking around here, spewing their garbage. All the Celtics fans I know respect S.A.

The only mullet-wearing, B.O. stinking, white trash trolls on this board are the ones rooting for the Mavericks. Leave the Cowboys out of it, it is irrelevant.

[ploto]

:lol Isn't it true?! He acts like a bad ass when he rebounds and no one is within five feet of him.
Nazr stuck his elbows out alot, too, and almost posed. And then Tony would yell at him to pass him the ball!

[Budkin]

Damn, as a sidenote anyone watching the Cavs/Lakers game? Kobe is sick.

I forgot what it's like to watch a team have varied offense and have contributions from other players.

They lost. At least they are still behind us.

[timvp]

When Rasho got a rebound he used to ... um ... hmmmm ... nevermind.

:smokin

[Don Quixote]

And let's get off the front office for being cheap. The players that matter on this team are getting paid.

It's their wise management of the salary cap that has allowed them to keep Manu and Tony, and put good complimentary pieces around Tim/Manu/Tony to win 3 titles.

The league is full of examples of teams that thought they could just buy titles. Trust me, Miami would love someone like us to take Toine off their hands. They'd pay us to do that. The Knicks, Clippers, Wolves, Nugs, about 2/3 of the league has someone they gave horrible contracts to. Do we really want to be them.

The Spurs just need to get younger, and better.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Uh, yeah. :lol That's the point.





and Mar Cuban is all about winning and getting better, THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT




I hate Cuban, but he at least does anything he can to make his team better

[Don Quixote]

How did we beat Washington by -- 25? -- points the other day?

Shoot, if the Wizards show up and play a half-decent game, and Finley bricks the 3, we're looking at an 0-6 road trip.

[1Parker1]

Anyone have the games post game comments?

[spursfreakforever]

of course! another crap game!

[ponky]

they have a pic of wade on the front page of nba.com...but that pic was of a foul on wade when manu drew a charge on him

[E20]

I always miss these fucking Sunday games cause of work shit.

I always miss the games when Manu plays good. Damn.

FUCK THE SPURS LOST, good thing I missed this one.

[Cherry]

FUCK THE SPURS LOST


http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/659/lost21cp5.jpg

[Kori Ellis]

That's pretty good Cherry - especially with the look on Manu's face.

[Budkin]

Oh man that is awesome Cherry! How true it is.

[Cherry]

That's pretty good Cherry - especially with the look on Manu's face.

Oh man that is awesome Cherry! How true it is.

Thanks. :oops

[dg7md]

Spurs purposely playing bad to surprise people in the playoffs?

Nah...

[Cherry]

Spurs purposely playing bad to surprise people in the playoffs?

Nah...




Shhh....don´t tell anyone.

[Trainwreck2100]

Murdered in Miami? That's kinda strong for Simmons

[wildbill2u]

Jason Kapono had 11 rebounds against the Spurs. Yes .. Jason Kapono. :cry
I was watching Kapono because he was 'guarding' Bowen. Actually, he played way off of him and camped out by the lane, leaving Bowen unguarded.

So Kapono was in great position to help out on defense against the Big Three...and surprise, surprise, pick up extra rebounds.

8 of those 11 rebounds were defensive rebounds while Bruce was standing with his thumb up his ass in the corner, 15-20 feet from the action.

Teams are simply willing to leave Bowen alone and challenge him to beat them. Even if he hits his 'mighty average of 7 PPG, they can afford it because they can use the extra man in the lane to shut down the Big Three.

[Pugglekicker_21]

Woo-hoo! #5 seed, here we come!


greg oden here we come! no we're no that bad... yet..

[E20]

LMAO, on that Lost poster Tony looks happy. :lol Classic.

[LEONARD]

Another perfect day of b-ball...Mavs win, Suns and Spurs lose...

The Spurs will get it turned around!!!