Should Finley Start?

[1Parker1]

If Pop decides to continue to bring Manu off the bench, should he consider replacing Finley over Barry in the starting lineup? Barry is looking scared out there and is getting scorched by the opposing player on the defensive end, and his ball handling hasn't even been that great.

Though Finley's shooting % is down, I think he's on his way up these past few games. At least he's not afraid to shoot.

Pop has three options:

1) Move Manu back to the starting lineup

2) Move Finley to the starting lineup

3) Keep Barry in the starting lineup.

Which do you think will help?

[Texas_Ranger]

1) Move Manu back to the starting lineup

[Leetonidas]

Fuck no. I'd rather have Barry passing it than Finley hitting bricks.

[Marcus Bryant]

He should retire.

[objective]

Barry passed it right to the Heat today with his team leading 4 turnovers.

But . . . it's true, Finley is no better.

[Kori Ellis]

Corey Maggette or Stephen Jackson should start :lol

[timvp]

At this point I wouldn't be against starting James White if he is even an average NBA defender. Watching Finley and especially Barry play defense is sickening.

But really, this is where having an "unnecessary 5th swingman" like Devin Brown would have helped. He'd easily be starting right now and would be the 4th best player on the team.

[timvp]

But really, this is where having an "unnecessary 5th swingman" like Devin Brown would have helped. He'd easily be starting right now and would be the 4th best player on the team.

And you know it's bad when the anti-Devin clan (*cough* ChumpDumper and Bruno *cough*) stopped disagreeing with me.

[Marcus Bryant]

But really, this is where having an "unnecessary 5th swingman" like Devin Brown would have helped. He'd easily be starting right now and would be the 4th best player on the team.

:lmao I remember that discussion. It was rather similiar to the discussion after the Rose/Mohammed trade in scale of those for and those against. *sigh* Oh well. Holt saved a few more $ and that's what we, as fans, care about the most.

[1Parker1]

Corey Maggette or Stephen Jackson should start :lol

That's not an option right now, Kori :pctoss :lol

[Kori Ellis]

That's not an option right now, Kori :pctoss :lol

:lol

I am just not a fan of Barry or Finley right now, so I don't really have an answer. And Manu is playing really well off the bench, so I'd like to keep him there.

[1Parker1]

At this point I wouldn't be against starting James White if he is even an average NBA defender. Watching Finley and especially Barry play defense is sickening.

But really, this is where having an "unnecessary 5th swingman" like Devin Brown would have helped. He'd easily be starting right now and would be the 4th best player on the team.

Alright people, this isn't a hypothetical thread. Of course if we had Maggette, D Brown, Stephen Jackson they'd be starting. But by the looks of it, this is the team we have unfortunately and what we'll end up having in the postseason.

I say Pop needs to start Finley over Barry if he continues to bring Manu off the bench. I think it's really important to get Finely going offensively, because out of our sorry bench/"Veteran" team, I think he's the most dependable scorer of the lot. It'd be nice if he also decides to start/play Butler and E Williams instead of Oberto/Elson.


I have a feeling once Bonner comes back he'll be starting. Which is just sad that he's considered the Spurs savior.

[timvp]

If White can play defense, why not let him play some token minutes to begin each half?

Seriously. Put him in the Nazr role of playing the first 6 minutes of each half. Playing with the rest of the starters, he's not going to be that bad.

Watching Finley and Barry is like watching Steve Smith all over again. Dead legs don't win championships.








P.S.

But uh, yeah, he'd have to actually play in a game first. :nerd

[Bruno]

And you know it's bad when the anti-Devin clan (*cough* ChumpDumper and Bruno *cough*) stopped disagreeing with me.

I still disagree with you. ;)

[ploto]

Did you know that lowly, banged-up New Orleans/Oklahoma City is holding opponents to a lower FG% than the Spurs.

[timvp]

I still disagree with you. ;)

:lol

Good one.

[1Parker1]

If White can play defense, why not let him play some token minutes to begin each half?

Seriously. Put him in the Nazr role of playing the first 6 minutes of each half. Playing with the rest of the starters, he's not going to be that bad.




Pop doesn't even let Butler play scrub minutes, you think he's going to play White? :drunk

[ploto]

If you want to start Finley, just finally play Barry at back-up point guard. Please.

[timvp]

If you want to start Finley, just finally play Barry at back-up point guard. Please.

:lmao

Did you watch Barry attempt to defend Jameer Nelson? You want to see more of that?

[anonymous coward]

move manu to where he should be, bench bowen and start finley

[objective]

If White can play defense, why not let him play some token minutes to begin each half?

Seriously. Put him in the Nazr role of playing the first 6 minutes of each half. Playing with the rest of the starters, he's not going to be that bad.

Watching Finley and Barry is like watching Steve Smith all over again. Dead legs don't win championships.


true.

It is like Steve Smith all over again.

And it will probably end like Steve Smith/Terry Porter/et al.

With Pop refusing to play the young wing at all. Not even a sniff, inactive for the playoffs.

Then, if the player gets on the court the second year due to others' injuries and actually shows what he could have done the entire time . . . the media and the fans will fawn all over the Spurs for being geniuses.

It will be a vindication of some fake 'plan' of development.

[1Parker1]

If you want to start Finley, just finally play Barry at back-up point guard. Please.

Yea his team high 4 TO's today in limited minutes was great, give him the ball even more. :tu

[Que Gee]

Did anyone listen to Jon Barry's analysis of the Spurs after the game?
: )

[Squid]

Fuck it. I'll start at small forward.

[ploto]

Did anyone listen to Jon Barry's analysis of the Spurs after the game?
: )
I missed it- what did he say?

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

how about this, move Bowen OUT OF THE FUCKIN starting 5

[mookie2001]

no

[Que Gee]

Yea his team high 4 TO's today in limited minutes was great, give him the ball even more. :tu

Ya cause Barry is known as such a turn over machine...get a fucking clue. He should have been playing back up pg months ago.

The turnovers were all in the first half, and 2 of them where suspect calls...traveling and palming. GMAFB....

[Spurs Brazil]

Spurs are 2-4 since Manu is coming off the bench

Manu starting or not won't hide Finley and Barry liabilities

[ploto]

Did you watch Barry attempt to defend Jameer Nelson? You want to see more of that?
Like Jacque Vaughn was any better?

[timvp]

He should have been playing back up pg months ago.


http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20060410/nelson_77932.jpg
Barry playing tough man-to-man defense against Nelson.

[timvp]

Like Jacque Vaughn was any better?

Sadly enough, way better.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Spurs are 2-4 since Manu is coming off the bench

Manu starting or not won't hide Finley and Barry liabilities



exactly, doesn't matter is Manu is starting or not



he will get his points and Barry and Finley will continue to struggle

[ploto]

I could have sworn Nelson had like 10 points in the fourth quarter with Barry not even in the game-- I recall Parker and Vaughn together...

[timvp]

I could have sworn Nelson had like 10 points in the fourth quarter with Barry not even in the game.

10 in the 4th > 12 straight on Barry

[1Parker1]

Ya cause Barry is known as such a turn over machine...get a fucking clue. He should have been playing back up pg months ago.

The turnovers were all in the first half, and 2 of them where suspect calls...traveling and palming. GMAFB....

:wtf Are we watching the same guy? Brent Barry looks scared to shoot, his passing has not been up to par, and more than that his defense against opposing guards has been proven to single handedly crush the Spurs chances of a win (See Magic game).

[sa_butta]

Yea his team high 4 TO's today in limited minutes was great, give him the ball even more. :tuBarry 18:10 4-7-fgs 3-6-3's 4-TO 2-st 11pts
Finley 18:27 2-9-fgs 1-7-3's 2-TO 0-st 5 pts.

Barry had 4 TO's but also had 2 steals
Finley had 2 TO's and no steals, sounds even to me.

And if they are both poor defenders why not give the ball to the
guy with the hotter hand?

[timvp]

Opponents score 9 more points per 100 possessions when Barry is on the court for the Spurs. That's an ungodly high number.

Finley is second worst at 4.5.

[Kori Ellis]

I could have sworn Nelson had like 10 points in the fourth quarter with Barry not even in the game-- I recall Parker and Vaughn together...

He had something like 11 of 13 points against Barry in the third quarter and after that no one could stop him.

But seriously, we shouldn't be sitting here picking apart Barry, Finley, Bowen, Tony, Manu and Tim.

This team sucks right now first and foremost because the bigs suck.

When Oberto and Elson can't do anything defensively, then that fricks up the whole Spurs defense system. Smalls funnel the opponents baseline and they go straight to the hoop.

And then when Pop has to pull the bigs and go small, then the Spurs can't rebound or defend.

The Spurs needed to address the problem with the bigs after last year's playoffs when they were outrebounded in 11 of 13 playoff games. And though the illusion made it looked like they addressed the problem with the bigs by acquiring Elson/Butler, they really only addressed getting rid of long term contracts.

The Spurs need a big who can play next Tim to rebound and defend.

That guy apparently isn't on the roster (or he's Jackie Butler in street clothes).

So we are going to keep seeing the Spurs get beat. We are going to keep seeing teams outrebound them by double digits, we are going to keep seeing teams shoot upwards of 50%.

After the Washington game, everyone started jocking Elson again and I told everyone, hey, let's simmer down, he was matched up with a shooting guard (and I was called a hater). But these last two games it came into glaring light again. The Spurs bigs suck.

If the Spurs fixed the problem with the bigs, a lot of other things get fixed. It won't be a cure all but if the Spurs can make a trade for a big, they'll be a lot closer to winning a title than they are right now.

[ploto]

Scared to shoot? Barry was 4-7 and had 11 points.

Manu, Tony, and Tim turn the ball over a lot more than Brent Barry. Do you even know he has averaged less than 1 turnover per game every year he has been on the Spurs. Gripe about his defense all you want- but not his ability to handle the ball.

[1Parker1]

^What big is available though who can help us in that area this season, Kori? That's the sad part...

[T Park]

Ploto has a thing for the caucasians obviously.

[Spurs Brazil]

He had something like 11 of 13 points against Barry in the third quarter and after that no one could stop him.

But seriously, we shouldn't be sitting here picking apart Barry, Finley, Bowen, Tony, Manu and Tim.

This team sucks right now first and foremost because the bigs suck.

When Oberto and Elson can't do anything defensively, then that fricks up the whole Spurs defense system. Smalls funnel the opponents baseline and they go straight to the hoop.

And then when Pop has to pull the bigs and go small, then the Spurs can't rebound or defend.

The Spurs needed to address the problem with the bigs after last year's playoffs when they were outrebounded in 11 of 13 playoff games. And though the illusion made it looked like they addressed the problem with the bigs by acquiring Elson/Butler, they really only addressed getting rid of long term contracts.

The Spurs need a big who can play next Tim to rebound and defend.

That guy apparently isn't on the roster (or he's Jackie Butler in street clothes).

So we are going to keep seeing the Spurs get beat. We are going to keep seeing teams outrebound them by double digits, we are going to keep seeing teams shoot upwards of 50%.

After the Washington game, everyone started jocking Elson again and I told everyone, hey, let's simmer down, he was matched up with a shooting guard (and I was called a hater). But these last two games it came into glaring light again. The Spurs bigs suck.

If the Spurs fixed the problem with the bigs, a lot of other things get fixed. It won't be a cure all but if the Spurs can make a trade for a big, they'll be a lot closer to winning a title than they are right now.

The sad thing is we all talked last season how much Rasho and Narz sucks and who's is starting for most part of the season for us at center: Oberto, the guy who could not get minutes over Narz and Oberto

[TheMulvany]

That's sad when the Mavs get rid of Finley and now you're talking about him starting for the Spurs. Must be real tough times in San Antonio, hahah.

[Que Gee]

:wtf Are we watching the same guy? Brent Barry looks scared to shoot, his passing has not been up to par, and more than that his defense against opposing guards has been proven to single handedly crush the Spurs chances of a win (See Magic game).

WTF? I should ask you the same thing....quite getting recycled comments from other people...scared to shoot? The guy played 17 minutes today, was 3 for 6 from 3pt line...and had 11pts? WTF are you talking about?

And yes, again, lets now blame Barry's defense for the Spurs losing...classic. And please tell me how all the sudden his "passing" is now an issue...All the sudden he can't pass now?

The fact of the matter is the Spurs give up 91pts a game in wins AND losses...

They have a predictable non imaginative offense which does the same thing everytime down the court...and their bigs are terrible. :blah

[Extra Stout]

^What big is available though who can help us in that area this season, Kori? That's the sad part...
The problem isn't going to be solved this season, unfortunately.

But be thankful -- the Spurs have given you the gift of time! At least a dozen evenings that were going to be consumed watching playoff games can now be devoted to other endeavors.

And you can stop worrying about the roster. There is no possible outcome except failure. That realization is a huge relief.

[Kori Ellis]

^What big is available though who can help us in that area this season, Kori? That's the sad part...

I'm not the GM so it's not my job to find the answers :lol

But I'm sure there's guys out there that can be had.

Haywood or EThomas are possible, but the Spurs probably think they are too expensive.

Magloire might be considered better at this point.

Stromile Swift or Stephen Hunter probably could be had.

Hell, Danny Fortson might even be better :drunk

[ploto]

Kori- I have a defensive question and it's not just because it is about Rasho.

Pop always sent in defensive signals of all types through Rasho- just like he does to Tony when he calls play offensively. Whether during free throws or an out of bounds play- it was always Pop and Rasho communicating with sign language about defense. This season, Rasho still does that with Sam Mitchell. Who is doing that for the Spurs? I used to at least see Nazr try. Elson does not seem to know enough about his own role, yet alone enough to guide what anyone else is doing. Is it Oberto when he is in there- or does it all fall to Tim? And who and how much talking is going on with the defense? Who is calling out screens and directing traffic, so to speak? I really do wonder.

[Bruno]

Spurs needs more than one big able to play with Duncan. The big next Duncan will have to defend on players like Shaq and Yao but too on players like Dirk and Odom.
Spurs are slighty better this year against Dirk like players but they are worse against Shaq like players.

[Kori Ellis]

Kori- I have a defensive question and it's not just because it is about Rasho.

Pop always sent in defensive signals of all types through Rasho- just like he does to Tony when he calls play offensively. Whether during free throws or an out of bounds play- it was always Pop and Rasho communicating with sign language about defense. This season, Rasho still does that with Sam Mitchell. Who is doing that for the Spurs? I used to at least see Nazr try. Elson does not seem to know enough about his own role, yet alone enough to guide what anyone else is doing. Is it Oberto when he is in there- or does it all fall to Tim? And who and how much talking is going on with the defense? Who is calling out screens and directing traffic, so to speak? I really do wonder.

I think that it's falling on Tim. Though you are right that there's a lot less communication/chatter on defense this year than in the past.

[spurschick]

I'm looking forward to Bonner's return, although that certainly isn't the cure-all. It's really sad to see Beno's ass taking up space on the bench. I'm all for giving White some minutes, having Brent as third option at PG and putting Beno in street clothes.

[ploto]

Spurs needs more than one big able to play with Duncan. The big next Duncan will have to defend on players like Shaq and Yao but too on players like Dirk and Odom.
Spurs are slighty better this year against Dirk like players but they are worse against Shaq like players.
I don't buy that claim anymore because Elson is so lost that he won't even be on the court. At least before you had a big who could guard someone; Now you have no big who can guard anyone.

[timvp]

Spurs are slighty better this year against Dirk like players

That's my hope right now when I look at the bigs. Elson is best when he's guarding shooting guards ... and Dirk offensively plays like a giant shooting guard. Oberto is best against soft defenders ... and Dirk historically fits the bill as well.

If one were to be holding out hope, it'd be that the Spurs matchup with the Mavs and the Suns better than they did last year.

[Bruno]

I don't buy that claim anymore because Elson is so lost that he won't even be on the court. At least before you had a big who could guard someone; Now you have no big who can guard anyone.

You haven't noticed the "slighty". :spin

Elson can be a decent man 2 man defender on players like Dirk who aren't strong. Even if he plays bad team defense, he will be an upgrade over what Spurs had last year.

[DR WU]

1Parker1


Though Finley's shooting % is down, I think he's on his way up these past few games. At least he's not afraid to shoot.

Pop has three options:

1) Move Manu back to the starting lineup

2) Move Finley to the starting lineup

3) Keep Barry in the starting lineup.

Which do you think will help?


I would play Fin and have Manu start for Bowen (his defense is just as good). Barry could then alternate the 2/3 spot from the bench and come in at the end of games (four guards and Duncan). That way, you could spread the floor and generate some real offense. Smallball is the only way we can compete with Dallas and Phoenix. We have some gamers why not get'em on the floor instead of the deadwood.

[TMTTRIO]

I think it's time to start Manu again because this little experiment is not working.

[Bruno]

Maybe Pop has too started Barry to raise his trade value (he did the opposite with Manu before signing him).
If you're a dumb GM and look only at stats Brent has been playing great lately : he averages something like 12 ppg with a FG% over 60 on the last 5 games.

[boutons_]

"this little experiment is not working."

NOTHING is working. Fiddling with the starting lineup won't solve anything.

[BigBinBigD]

LMFAO at you people thinking Finley was any better than he is. Why do you think we wanted him outta Dallas years ago? A brick-layer who's scared to go to the hole, can't and never could play defense, and dribbles like he has oven mitts on. And you think he should start? BWAAAAHHHH!!!!!

[timvp]

LMFAO at you people thinking Finley was any better than he is. Why do you think we wanted him outta Dallas years ago? A brick-layer who's scared to go to the hole, can't and never could play defense, and dribbles like he has oven mitts on. And you think he should start? BWAAAAHHHH!!!!!



http://static.flickr.com/75/172920029_efdb5c008e.jpg

[ploto]

Elson can be a decent man 2 man defender on players like Dirk who aren't strong. Even if he plays bad team defense, he will be an upgrade over what Spurs had last year.
Does he wave a towel better than Nazr? Does he hand out the Gatorade quicker than Rasho?

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

1Parker1


Though Finley's shooting % is down, I think he's on his way up these past few games. At least he's not afraid to shoot.

Pop has three options:

1) Move Manu back to the starting lineup

2) Move Finley to the starting lineup

3) Keep Barry in the starting lineup.

Which do you think will help?


I would play Fin and have Manu start for Bowen (his defense is just as good). Barry could then alternate the 2/3 spot from the bench and come in at the end of games (four guards and Duncan). That way, you could spread the floor and generate some real offense. Smallball is the only way we can compete with Dallas and Phoenix. We have some gamers why not get'em on the floor instead of the deadwood.





SMH, 2-4 with Manu not starting. Barry has been horrid starting and Finley should be starting inplace of Bowen who is becoming a reliability

[baseline bum]

Finley should start if the Spurs are looking to tank the season to draft Oden or Durant, which doesn't look like too bad of an idea right now with the other upgrade options this team has.

[Bruno]

Does he wave a towel better than Nazr? Does he hand out the Gatorade quicker than Rasho?


:depressed I'm starting to miss Rasho only because you have been so bitter since his trade. :depressed

[timvp]

:depressed I'm starting to miss Rasho only because you have been so bitter since his trade. :depressed

:rollin

[ShoogarBear]

Did you know that lowly, banged-up New Orleans/Oklahoma City is holding opponents to a lower FG% than the Spurs.*cough*

[spurschick]

Ploto, there is this great guy on the forum you should meet. His name is jeffdrums22. You two should hook up.

[E20]

Well if you look at it, Manu is still getting his numbers despite coming off the bench and Barry is playing like he was in the begining of the season. So, it's kind of working, but for some reasons the Spurs just can't seem to win any games.

[wildbill2u]

Barry 18:10 4-7-fgs 3-6-3's 4-TO 2-st 11pts
Finley 18:27 2-9-fgs 1-7-3's 2-TO 0-st 5 pts.

Barry had 4 TO's but also had 2 steals
Finley had 2 TO's and no steals, sounds even to me.

And if they are both poor defenders why not give the ball to the
guy with the hotter hand?
Not to mention the season averages where Barry is shooting at .504% to Finley's .389% and 3Pts where Barry is at 47.2% and Finley at 32.9%

In every other statistical categorry for the season there isn't much to choose between them although Barry is ahead in PPG 8.8 to 8, Assts. Steals. Finley has slight lead in rebounds and blocks.