trade TONY?

[gsRt5]

Well is it just me or does anyone else think he is overrated and we should try to get something for him while his name is somewhat big?
Ive never liked his style of play and think of it wasnt for the rest of his team he wouldnt do much. I cant stand when he drives and then jumps and looks to dump the ball and there is nothing. He doesnt do it as much than previous years but he still pulls it every once and awhile.

Another thing before I let him off the hook, he hasnt showed up in a playoff game that I can remember. He has always been saved by the bench and it always gets overlooked but in the clutch he is soft..


I know this is my first thread but I dont plan on it being my last. Ive been a spurs fan since birth and I hope things get turned around. I say whats on my mind and wish I would of found this forum sooner....

[ChumpDumper]

I know this is my first thread but I dont plan on it being my last.Pity.

[Kermit]

anal-rippage in...

5
4
3
2
1

commence.

[Amarelooms]

Trade Parker to Dallas for AJ and Croshere lol

[gsRt5]

anal-rippage in...

5
4
3
2
1

commence.


HAHAHA....cause this damn town luvs the guy.

[ducks]

you do know the coaches have voted tp in the allstar game the last 2 years in a row

[stretch]

i have always thought TP is overrated. and not to bash the Spurs or anything, ive just always thought that aside from his quickness, hes not a very good basketball player. hes not a very good shooter, hes not a very good passer, he is not a good defender, and isnt good at creating for himself or others. and hes not the most clutch player, and wilts under physical play. of course, his speed is a huge asset to the Spurs attack, and without him, they would have little to no fastbreak threat, and he is a good finisher. if the spurs trade him, they would need to have another PG that is very good at creating fastbreak opportunities like him, otherwise they will be in deep shit.

thats just my opinion.

[gsRt5]

As much as I hate AJ, I wouldnt mind it..........Atleast he can lead a team..

[Patrick Davis]

Tony is not overrated. One of the very few young points in the league who can run a half court offense. You don't like Tony's play, blame Pop. Plus having an insanely high field goal % for someone his age and playing point doesn't hurt. And he has played well in the playoffs. Trade him, and Beno is our starter. Awesome.

[Trainwreck2100]

Yes, let's have Jauque Vaugh start. As much as I hate Parker and his ho, he's one of the best out there.

[td4mvp21]

i have always thought TP is overrated. and not to bash the Spurs or anything, ive just always thought that aside from his quickness, hes not a very good basketball player. hes not a very good shooter, hes not a very good passer, he is not a good defender, and isnt good at creating for himself or others. and hes not the most clutch player, and wilts under physical play. of course, his speed is a huge asset to the Spurs attack, and without him, they would have little to no fastbreak threat, and he is a good finisher. if the spurs trade him, they would need to have another PG that is very good at creating fastbreak opportunities like him, otherwise they will be in deep shit.

thats just my opinion.

What's ironic is that he is a good shooter, he is a good passer, he is a good defender, he is good at creating shots for himself and others, and he can hit clutch shots. :donkey

[ducks]

i have always thought TP is overrated. and not to bash the Spurs or anything, ive just always thought that aside from his quickness, hes not a very good basketball player. hes not a very good shooter, hes not a very good passer, he is not a good defender, and isnt good at creating for himself or others. and hes not the most clutch player, and wilts under physical play. of course, his speed is a huge asset to the Spurs attack, and without him, they would have little to no fastbreak threat, and he is a good finisher. if the spurs trade him, they would need to have another PG that is very good at creating fastbreak opportunities like him, otherwise they will be in deep shit.

thats just my opinion.

do you know what his shooting is?

[Amarelooms]

As much as I hate AJ, I wouldnt mind it..........Atleast he can lead a team..

Done deal...tell Pops and let's get this done ASAP :elephant

[gsRt5]

HAHAHAHA...............hit clutch shots..........HAHAHAHA

[ducks]

You do realize theres only one other player besides Nash who scores over 19pts, shoots over 50% from the field and averages 6+ assits per game. Guess who it is. TP

[Trainwreck2100]

What's ironic is that he is a good shooter, he is a good passer, he is a good defender, he is good at creating shots for himself and others, and he can hit clutch shots. :donkey


Name 1

[gsRt5]

exactly

[Fillmoe]

you guys can have mike bibby..... hes a clutch shooter

[Kermit]

What's ironic is that he is a good shooter, he is a good passer, he is a good defender, he is good at creating shots for himself and others, and he can hit clutch shots. :donkey

i'll agree with a lot of this, but he hits clutch shots like i bang scarlett johansson.

[ducks]

he hit the game winner against the suns 2 years ago
I watched that game in person

[ducks]

to be fair to tp this is the first year pop is going to tp in the fourth
before it was always duncan and manu

[gsRt5]

you guys can have mike bibby..... hes a clutch shooter

at this point I wouldnt mind that deal with some extras....Only cause Bibby is near his end but I bet he could do more that what gets down now.......
Atleast with Bibby we have some sorta outside threat.....Now thats a clutch shooter

[gsRt5]

to be fair to tp this is the first year pop is going to tp in the fourth
before it was always duncan and manu

both Timmy and Manu havent been the same since there injuries.....

[ducks]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59912&page=2&highlight=parker

[ChumpDumper]

both Timmy and Manu havent been the same since there injuries.....But keep them, right?

[ducks]

yeah keep duncan and manu since they have not been the same since injury and trade a healthy tony that is improving

[gsRt5]

NO.........I believe there game will come back around. Timmy just better hurry up cause I dont believe he has much left in the tank either......Tony is in his prime and I dont see much......

[ducks]

since the poster who started this thread thinks tp sucks who are going to get for him?

[ChumpDumper]

NO.........I believe there game will come back around.When?

It's been years.

[ducks]

NO.........I believe there game will come back around. Timmy just better hurry up cause I dont believe he has much left in the tank either......Tony is in his prime and I dont see much......


tp is playing better then nash, gp and kidd did after they played the same number of years in the nba

[Kermit]

i might be wrong, but envisioning tony trying to run the offense without manu or tim made me throw up in my mouth. what a scary thought.

[td4mvp21]

Name 1

2003, Spurs vs. Mavs final regular season game, Parker nails the floater to give the Spurs a 112-110 victory IN DALLAS.

2004, Spurs vs. Suns, Parker nails the game-winner to give the Spurs a 86-84 victory IN PHOENIX.

There's so much more. Those are two of the good ones.

[ducks]

if tp went someplace else his assist and points would go up

[elbamba]

Name 1

I remeber a few years ago he stole the ball against Utah and went coast to coast for a layup to beat them by two in the last few seconds of the game. I also remember him lighting up the Mavs on several occasions including back when they had Bradley and Parker nailed a running floater over Bradley and Dirk to send the game into OT where the Spurs won.

Also, Parker has been such a valuable asset the last few years that the Spurs have not needed him to hit game winning shots as we have been beating teams by so much we didn't need to hit a last second shot.

The Spurs also have players who we would rather have take the last shot. Horry, Duncan, Barry, Manu and in the past we had Kerr, Jackson, Hedo, Smith, etc...Parker's role has never been to hit the clutch shot, it has been to lead an effective offense and be the point gaurd that takes us to the championships. He has two and while Mavs fans want to post on how little he can do, please name a Mav that is better and has more on his resume than Parker...win a championship and then post on how little our point gaurd can do.

[gsRt5]

since the poster who started this thread thinks tp sucks who are going to get for him?

Apparently it will never happen, this town luvs the guy to much and believe he will or can lead a team.....I always wondered what would happen if we did trade him and just wanted to see others views....afterall this is my first post on here..
I would like to see what we could get if they through his name out there, I bet there would be plenty of teams intrested..We just need a more versitle player. Someone that could create on there own, afterall the rest of the team isnt doing much...If you look closely when have you ever seen a team double up on TP?...I never have, he has never been a outside threat and that leads to Timmy being doubled often......

I didnt mean for all of you all to get all butthurt.....

[gsRt5]

tp is playing better then nash, gp and kidd did after they played the same number of years in the nba


OH shit.....I cant believe what I am reading....Tony over Nash???..... :blah

Nash kills parker everytime.......

[ducks]

I said after the same number if seasons dumbass


I see you could not post this in the reasonable trade thread because it is not!

[gsRt5]

He has two and while Mavs fans want to post on how little he can do, please name a Mav that is better and has more on his resume than Parker...win a championship and then post on how little our point gaurd can do.


I would take Jason terry over parker any day and I hate the guy...

[gsRt5]

I said after the same number if seasons dumbass


I see you could not post this in the reasonable trade thread because it is not!

Like I said dont get all butthurt....Why do you have to resort to namecalling???......ur lame..

[ducks]

Apparently it will never happen, this town luvs the guy to much and believe he will or can lead a team.....I always wondered what would happen if we did trade him and just wanted to see others views....afterall this is my first post on here..
I would like to see what we could get if they through his name out there, I bet there would be plenty of teams intrested..We just need a more versitle player. Someone that could create on there own, afterall the rest of the team isnt doing much...If you look closely when have you ever seen a team double up on TP?...I never have, he has never been a outside threat and that leads to Timmy being doubled often......

I didnt mean for all of you all to get all butthurt.....

rc and pop would have let david walk
the town would be ok with trading tp not manu though
WHAt point guard are you going to get

yeah if I am the suns I would listen
a younger point guard in tp and faster point guard
if I am suns I might do that trade
but nash is not even healthy right now and nash would have to play 48 minutes and plays NO D


do you really think nash can help with rebounding and d problem
I think he would cause the d to have more of a problem

[Pugglekicker_21]

the big three is the big three for a reason

[ducks]

Like I said dont get all butthurt....Why do you have to resort to namecalling???......ur lame..
I do not like it when people can not even read what I wrote
did I say nash was better then tp? NO
I said tp played better then nash after the same number of seasons in the nba!

[ducks]

I would take Jason terry over parker any day and I hate the guy...

and how do you suppose cuban would let that happen?
do you think mavs would really trade with the spurs?

[gsRt5]

Okay then when tim retires, your going to rebuild around Tony?..............Ya right.....You get rid of him and his contract keep Nash for a couple of years that he has left and then rebuild when Duncan retires.......and dump all the contracts..

[Amarelooms]

I would take Jason terry over parker any day and I hate the guy...

Hmmm...sorry but no deal...Terry ain't a true PG but he's better for the Mavs offense and can actually SHOOT the ball lol :elephant

[gsRt5]

and how do you suppose cuban would let that happen?
do you think mavs would really trade with the spurs?


Nope it will never happen but its nice to dream...

[gsRt5]

I do not like it when people can not even read what I wrote
did I say nash was better then tp? NO
I said tp played better then nash after the same number of seasons in the nba!

So that all it takes for you to get pissy.........Ur like my damn 2 yr old....

[ducks]

Okay then when tim retires, your going to rebuild around Tony?..............Ya right.....You get rid of him and his contract keep Nash for a couple of years that he has left and then rebuild when Duncan retires.......and dump all the contracts..
hopefully tp can get a big or a superstar to play with him
he can not do worse then duncan of getting a player to say yes

[ducks]

Nope it will never happen but its nice to dream...
then why bring it up?

besides tp is an allstar terry is NOT

[gsRt5]

Hmmm...sorry but no deal...Terry ain't a true PG but he's better for the Mavs offense and can actually SHOOT the ball lol :elephant


Cmon ill even give u a european sensation named "FABRICIO"...LOL...

[TDMVPDPOY]

i agrreee that his way overrated, and i hate his style of play, he thinks he deserves to get props from the refs to bail him out and look at him when his complainin to the refs, moron should just continue on playing.

run in for a layup and flop like the bitch he is and dive onto the court, do a few rolls...yeh right.

[Amarelooms]

then why bring it up?

besides tp is an allstar terry is NOT

WRONG....well partly..>Terry is in the 3 point contest so he's kinda an all-star :elephant

[ducks]

list the players that you think tp can get
terry is not one

[gsRt5]

i agrreee that his way overrated, and i hate his style of play, he thinks he deserves to get props from the refs to bail him out and look at him when his complainin to the refs, moron should just continue on playing.

run in for a layup and flop like the bitch he is and dive onto the court, do a few rolls...yeh right.


Finally another spurs fan who can see what I am talking about...its funny that I have to point it out to ppl when I watch a game with them...And when they see what I am talking about then they understand, his game is not suited for this team....they wanna go inside then out but if the outside person cant hit a damn shot then theres nothing there..

Dont get me wrong TP has quick feet but thats not the spurs game....

[ducks]

do you think the lack of d and rebounding are bigger concerns right now then the point guard postion of the spurs?

[Patrick Davis]

We just need a more versitle player. Someone that could create on there own

I didnt mean for all of you all to get all butthurt.....

Okay, Tony can create, all those layups, thats creating. Insted of dribbling for 10 seconds then jacking up a wild 3 he gets to the rim and can finish, I'll take that over someone like Terry who pulls up 20 feet away from the rim.

FYI: don't call someone a 2 year old and use the phrase butthurt in the same thread. Kinda pot calling the kettle black.

[ducks]

On the road trip, the Spurs have been outrebounded 175-139 in the 4 losses.

In the losses, opponents have shot 48%, while in the two wins the opponents have shot 37%.

And it hasn't mattered what the Spurs themselves shot -- in both losses and wins, they shot about 43%.

[gsRt5]

list the players that you think tp can get
terry is not one


Shit IDK, whos is still available??....It doesnt have to be a marquee player.........theres ppl that can fill his role and not have to do much......
i would just would like to see a consistent shooter, good(not the best) but good defender, and someone who can create for themselves....

[ducks]

bervin knight from the bobcats might be avaible
but would they want tp's contract?
and tp>>>>>>>>>>>knight
knight would be aweome as a backup and sometimes they could move tp to the 2

[Patrick Davis]

Finally another spurs fan who can see what I am talking about...its funny that I have to point it out to ppl when I watch a game with them...And when they see what I am talking about then they understand, his game is not suited for this team....they wanna go inside then out but if the outside person cant hit a damn shot then theres nothing there..

Dont get me wrong TP has quick feet but thats not the spurs game....


What I see here is that you would rather have a worse player than Tony as long as they can drop the longball. Nash isn't available and from all you have described wanting its the only player I see matching your criteria.

[ducks]

Shit IDK, whos is still available??....It doesnt have to be a marquee player.........theres ppl that can fill his role and not have to do much......
i would just would like to see a consistent shooter, good(not the best) but good defender, and someone who can create for themselves....

look you are the one wanting to trade tp
you should know who is avaible

kidd would be but he makes more then duncan for 2 more years...

[Kermit]

Shit IDK, whos is still available??....It doesnt have to be a marquee player.........theres ppl that can fill his role and not have to do much......
i would just would like to see a consistent shooter, good(not the best) but good defender, and someone who can create for themselves....

he shoots 50%, he's a "good" defender (i'll let some of the other posters present statistical evidence to support that fact), and creating for himself is what he does very well. you'll have to pick some other things you would like to see.

[gsRt5]

do you think the lack of d and rebounding are bigger concerns right now then the point guard postion of the spurs?


yes.....the D needs to be picked up and rebounding, I didnt think they were going to be this bad this season.....

Dude I know there will never be a trade but its something that Ive always said I would like to see.....I just would like to see timmy go away with one more title, afterall he is the reason david got his....

[Amarelooms]

bervin knight from the bobcats might be avaible
but would they want tp's contract?
and tp>>>>>>>>>>>knight
knight would be aweome as a backup and sometimes they could move tp to the 2

Pass that stuff you are smoking. Come on Spurs homers...step back from the computer and get some rest. The Spurs are in a slump...they are still a very good team that could get hot and still win come playoff time. Calm down...good lord :elephant

[ducks]

I would not trade tp for knight

[Amarelooms]

I would not trade tp for knight


Lol you or anyone with an IQ over 10...

[Budkin]

*sigh*

[gsRt5]

Okay, Tony can create, all those layups, thats creating. Insted of dribbling for 10 seconds then jacking up a wild 3 he gets to the rim and can finish, I'll take that over someone like Terry who pulls up 20 feet away from the rim.

FYI: don't call someone a 2 year old and use the phrase butthurt in the same thread. Kinda pot calling the kettle black.

ya someone can hit and outside shot would do alot more good....then they would actually defend him instead of doubling down on TD.......and when they do you hit the 3.....Instead of a BRICK!!....

oh and I apologize if I offended you too...butt i never dissrespected anyone....

[Patrick Davis]

Don't worry I don't offend easy and your way off of it. I just don't get what you're looking for. You want to downgrade our point. You say you want someone to create and then say you want someone to sit on the 3 point line. What exactly are you looking for or are you just aimlessly complaining because of a losing streak.

[gsRt5]

Pass that stuff you are smoking. Come on Spurs homers...step back from the computer and get some rest. The Spurs are in a slump...they are still a very good team that could get hot and still win come playoff time. Calm down...good lord :elephant


LOL....I know this is what happens when you call out TD, TP, or MANU's game to a spurs fan...
I know no trade will ever happen but I would like to see it happen......I cant wait to see this yrs playoffs, if we get there....Then if he shows up, Ill eat my own words.....

[Kori Ellis]

LOL....I know this is what happens when you call out TD, TP, or MANU's game to a spurs fan...
I know no trade will ever happen but I would like to see it happen......I cant wait to see this yrs playoffs, if we get there....Then if he shows up, Ill eat my own words.....

He averaged 20 ppg in last year's playoffs, what did you eat then?

[gsRt5]

Don't worry I don't offend easy and your way off of it. I just don't get what you're looking for. You want to downgrade our point. You say you want someone to create and then say you want someone to sit on the 3 point line. What exactly are you looking for or are you just aimlessly complaining because of a losing streak.


NOpe Ive never like TP's game when we were winning and I cant point to some forums I was on yrs ago complaining of the same stuff...If I can find them...
I would like a consistent outside(not three) but a all around outside guy, that can create his own shots aswell.......Maybe TP has hit a few memorable shots but overall he has choked when it came down to the playoffs....

[gsRt5]

He averaged 20 ppg in last year's playoffs, what did you eat then?


and did we win last year?????......NO!!!....

[lefty]

i have always thought TP is overrated. and not to bash the Spurs or anything, ive just always thought that aside from his quickness, hes not a very good basketball player. hes not a very good shooter, hes not a very good passer, he is not a good defender, and isnt good at creating for himself or others. and hes not the most clutch player, and wilts under physical play. of course, his speed is a huge asset to the Spurs attack, and without him, they would have little to no fastbreak threat, and he is a good finisher. if the spurs trade him, they would need to have another PG that is very good at creating fastbreak opportunities like him, otherwise they will be in deep shit.

thats just my opinion.

I totally agree

[Patrick Davis]

name one player in the league who you would take over tony and we could get. just one

[Kori Ellis]

and did we win last year?????......NO!!!....

And that was Tony's fault? :wtf

It didn't have anything to with crappy centers and small ball?

:toast Here's to hoping this is the last thread you start.

[gsRt5]

name one player in the league who you would take over tony and we could get. just one

Why dont you scroll up this has been asked already....

[Kori Ellis]

The Tony bashers are incredibly lame.

Every coach in the league keys on stopping Tony as one of the main points to stopping at the Spurs, yet y'all think he sucks? Coaches have selected him to the All-Star game for two years in a row.

Keep your day jobs.

[Patrick Davis]

Why dont you scroll up this has been asked already....

and not answered. This is meaningless bitching if there's no one who could do it better. The thread is trade tony. Not I hate his play. You want him traded give a best case scenario.

[Tek_XX]

Tony along with Manu is the only one keeping us in games most of the time.

[lefty]

The Tony bashers are incredibly lame.

Every coach in the league keys on stopping Tony as one of the main points to stopping at the Spurs, yet y'all think he sucks? Coaches have selected him to the All-Star game for two years in a row.

Keep your day jobs.

So? that's because there aren't a lot of 20 ppg point-guards in the L ; he is just a logical choice; but he is nothing special

[gsRt5]

And that was Tony's fault? :wtf

It didn't have anything to with crappy centers and small ball?

:toast Here's to hoping this is the last thread you start.


No it wasnt all his fault........

and thanks for the welcome......I plan to be here for awhile....And I will be sure to point out his game to you....

[Kori Ellis]

Tony along with Manu is the only one keeping us in games most of the time.

People don't get that for some reason. Tony, Manu and Tim aren't the ones that should be traded.

[ChumpDumper]

I plan to be here for awhilevBookie!

[Kori Ellis]

No it wasnt all his fault........

and thanks for the welcome......I plan to be here for awhile....And I will be sure to point out his game to you....

:lol I didn't welcome you.

[lefty]

No it wasnt all his fault........

and thanks for the welcome......I plan to be here for awhile....And I will be sure to point out his game to you....
:lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

name one player in the league who you would take over tony and we could get. just one

cp3 or deron williams, but they are untouchable

there is one team i think would bite

the damn hawks are stackd at the sf position

trade tp to the hawks for childress + draft picks (solve hawks pg position, we get a sf, a draft pick, damn give us marvin williams :D or josh smith or sheldon williams or even joe johnson.

damn that pick of theres is goin to the suns which looks like durant or oden....:(

fuckn spurs front office suck, even with the european farming and shit over the years, all it took was one fuckn move.

[SoCalSpursFan]

The Tony bashers are incredibly lame.

Every coach in the league keys on stopping Tony as one of the main points to stopping at the Spurs, yet y'all think he sucks? Coaches have selected him to the All-Star game for two years in a row.

Keep your day jobs.


owned.

[Kermit]

People don't get that for some reason. Tony, Manu and Tim aren't the ones that should be traded.

this is the truth. however, they're the only players you're going to get anything of substance for (immediate help, so to speak).

[lefty]

owned.


:donkey

[Patrick Davis]

cp3 or deron williams, but they are untouchable

there is one team i think would bite

the damn hawks are stackd at the sf position

trade tp to the hawks for childress + draft picks (solve hawks pg position, we get a sf, a draft pick, damn give us marvin williams :D or josh smith or sheldon williams or even joe johnson.

damn that pick of theres is goin to the suns which looks like durant or oden....:(

fuckn spurs front office suck, even with the european farming and shit over the years, all it took was one fuckn move.


Then who plays point for us, Childress? We need a point as evidence by the fact that our backups can't do shit.

[Tradition]

i have always thought TP is overrated. and not to bash the Spurs or anything, ive just always thought that aside from his quickness, hes not a very good basketball player. hes not a very good shooter, hes not a very good passer, he is not a good defender, and isnt good at creating for himself or others. and hes not the most clutch player, and wilts under physical play. of course, his speed is a huge asset to the Spurs attack, and without him, they would have little to no fastbreak threat, and he is a good finisher. if the spurs trade him, they would need to have another PG that is very good at creating fastbreak opportunities like him, otherwise they will be in deep shit.

thats just my opinion.

Same applies to Josh Howard. Imagine how good he would be if he didnt have Dirk! His game would be average and he wouldnt of been looked at to vote for the all star game.

[Kori Ellis]

this is the truth. however, they're the only players you're going to get anything of substance for (immediate help, so to speak).

Not really. Because the Spurs don't need a star. They need useful role players. And you can get that for vets and expiring contracts. You just have to make the right trades.

[gsRt5]

and not answered. This is meaningless bitching if there's no one who could do it better. The thread is trade tony. Not I hate his play. You want him traded give a best case scenario.


yes it is trade tony with a damn question mark........I am asking what you think, not to come in and act like complete A-holes.....But W/e....I think he sux.....and Im not the only one.

If I had a scenario I would have put it out ther but i dont, I just wanted to see what others thought...

[ChumpDumper]

I am asking what you thinkWe should not trade Tony.

[Patrick Davis]

We think its a very bad idea

Thank you for your stay at Spurstalk :)

[Big Shot Rob]

Trade Tony Parker?

Er...okay...

Step off that ledge...

Slowly...

Slowly...

Don't look down--you might fall...

Look--

I am going crazy today, too.

But if we can't get shit for our bench--then we'll have to improve the team in the off-season. You can't win the championship every year. I prefer to keep our draft picks--there is supposed to be a good draft coming up. Maybe our guys in Europe can pan out.

I don't know.

But I don't think you trade one of the big three when we need a solid bench player or two...

[gsRt5]

:lol I didn't welcome you.


I know you didnt........ :flipoff

[gsRt5]

We think its a very bad idea

Thank you for your stay at Spurstalk :)


you see it could of been that easy....

[Big Shot Rob]

BTW--

I was just kidding about the ledge stuff.

Ignore the others--we're all going crazy today--most of the posters here snipe at each other after a loss--telling each other their ideas suck, etc.

[lefty]

Let's trade TP, Manu, Timmy, Bruce and Fabio for Terry, Harris, Dirk, Dampier and Josh

[Mavschick]

The Tony bashers are incredibly lame.

Every coach in the league keys on stopping Tony as one of the main points to stopping at the Spurs, yet y'all think he sucks? Coaches have selected him to the All-Star game for two years in a row.
Keep your day jobs.

Exactly.

Like gee, I wonder whose judgement I should put more trust in? That of a bunch of NBA coaches, or that of some hysterical dweeb? Hmm....NBA coaches....dweeb......wow tough one...

Let's see, who does CLE assign Eric Snow to when they play SA? Parker. Who does DAL assign Devin Harris to when they play SA? Parker. Who does HOU sic Luther Head and Bonzi Wells on when they play SA? Parker. Who does SEA sic Earl Watson on when they play SA? Parker. Who does CHI assign Chris Duhon to when they play SA? Parker. Who do most teams sic their best defensive guard on when they face SA? Parker.

Yet somehow Parker is still shooting a John Stocktonesque-53% from the field and is 4th in the league among PG's in scoring. Sorry, but even a Mavs fan like me can see that Parker is one of the top PG's in the league.

[Kori Ellis]

...
Yet somehow Parker is still shooting a John Stocktonesque-53% from the field and is 4th in the league among PG's in scoring. Sorry, but even as a Mavs fan I can see that Parker is one of the top PG's in the league.

Spurs fans don't realize how good of a percentage that is. They run around wetting their pants over other guys in the league that average in low 40's and then bitch about Tony's efficiency. Tony has his faults like everyone else, but he's 24 and improving every single year.

But some people hate him just to hate. I don't get it.

If you have to hate a Spurs player, some others are more worthy of it.

[SoCalSpursFan]

Trading Tony = Trading Eva.

Are you f*ckin serious?

[Rick Von Braun]

i have always thought TP is overrated.

I think he is slightly overrated, in particular in this board, but he is no slouch and he is a very good basketball player.


and not to bash the Spurs or anything, ive just always thought that aside from his quickness, hes not a very good basketball player.

I rate him as a top 30 player in the league.


hes not a very good shooter

He is not a great shooter, but he has been improving in the last couple of years. His eFG% on jumpshots (http://www.82games.com/0607/06SAS1A.HTM) has been steadily improving aside from his first year.

year -- eFG% on jumpshots
02-03 -- .428
03-04 -- .398
04-05 -- .405
05-06 -- .415
06-07 -- .448

A great part of the improvement is that he has stopped shooting threes altogether, helping his efficiency.


hes not a very good passer

He is capable of passing quite well, what he lacks is court vision... sometimes he doesn't involve teammates because he simply doesn't see how the play evolves.


he is not a good defender

He is a slightly below average defender, but he is an adequate defender for the most part. He is small, so he suffers with big guards, but he is active and fast. He is definitely not a liability on the defensive end.


and isnt good at creating for himself or others

I agree that he is not good at creating for others. In fact, he is mediocre at creating for others. He ranks 30th in pure point rating (PPR) (http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/jh_ALL_PPR.htm) and 41th in assist rate (AST-r) (http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/jh_ALL_AST.htm). This is not good for a PG no matter how you spin it (the Spurs offense, the teammates not hitting jumpers, etc. etc.) and I concede this point.

However, I completely disagree that he isn't good at creating for himself. The Usage Rate is a metric that measures the ability of a player to create on his own. Tony ranks 6th among all the point guards, and 25th among all players in the league (http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/jh_ALL_USG.htm)a very good rate!


and hes not the most clutch player,

He doesn't need to be the most clutch player when he has Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili on the team. Moreover, how many teams have two or more players that are really clutch. You could count them with the fingers of one hand.


and wilts under physical play.

He is a small frame PG, he will never be able to compete with stronger PGs, nor be able to fight for a rebound in between trees under the basket. However, after years of being coached by Pop, he is mentally strong.


of course, his speed is a huge asset to the Spurs attack, and without him, they would have little to no fastbreak threat, and he is a good finisher. if the spurs trade him, they would need to have another PG that is very good at creating fastbreak opportunities like him, otherwise they will be in deep shit.

thats just my opinion.

It is good to get opinions from other teams' fans. I don't think the Spurs would ever get equal trade value on any reasonable trade proposal, so they would certainly be much better off keeping TP.

[lefty]

Trading Tony = Trading Eva.

Are you f*ckin serious?

Well, if it helps to take Eva away, let's do it!!!

[Texas_Ranger]

TP is overrated, but Spurs will not trade him because he's Pop's favourite.

[johnpaulwall21]

TP is overrated, but Spurs will not trade him because he's Pop's favourite.

Hell naw, he gets on parker more than manu and the bench. He dont trade parker cause hes young and still improving.

[MrChug]

Yes.

[sabar]

Trade Tony?
You better get a quality PG in return. The day Beno starts is the beginning of the end.

[Sacramental]

bibby is by no means near his end hes only 28 years old and having a bad season but he'll step it up soon.

[SCdac]

Trading Parker wouldn't be a horrible idea in my opinion, as long as we at least get a young PG in return, like a Monta Ellis or Raymond Felton kind of PG. Somebody with just as much upside as Parker (in their early 20's, etc), and someone we could plug into the starting lineup... Maurice Williams, Luke Ridnour, Delonte West, etc, etc. Lots of servicable PG's out there. None are "All-Stars" like Parker, but could likely mesh with the Spurs.

I don't know, I've never thought of our PG position to be an immensely integral part of a championship. At least not compared to the big man. Just has to be someone who can handle pressure, get more assists than TO's, and hit fairly big shots. Avery Johnson or Speedy Claxton; it doesn't have to be an All-Star... I look back and see the Heat topple the Mavericks with Jason Williams and an ancient Gary Payton running the point! Not exactly top 10 point guards...

If the Spurs are looking to improve through a trade (ie. getting back a package of young talent: PG + SF/PF, or, PG + C), Parker may be the best piece to work with. Plenty of teams would want Parker, which is exactly why the struggling Spurs should sell him as high as possible, while they still can. I'm sort of biased though - I'm really high on Ginobili and value him just as much as Parker (at least for the Spurs). Versitality is big nowadays, and Ginobili's skills and qualities are definitely varied... Don't get me wrong, Parker is definitely a steal, and I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking he's untouchable. But, sometimes you have to give some to get some, and for me, that would be our score-first-guard, Parker. I imagine for others, that'd be the aging Ginobili... but that's if we're talking trading one of the big 3 in the first place. Which I wouldn't say is necessary just yet.

[4lifecowboy]

Trading Parker wouldn't be a horrible idea in my opinion, as long as we at least get a young PG in return, like a Monta Ellis or Raymond Felton kind of PG. Somebody with just as much upside as Parker (in their early 20's, etc), and someone we could plug into the starting lineup... Maurice Williams, Luke Ridnour, Delonte West, etc, etc. Lots of servicable PG's out there. None are "All-Stars" like Parker, but could likely mesh with the Spurs.

I don't know, I've never thought of our PG position to be an immensely integral part of a championship. At least not compared to the big man. Just has to be someone who can handle pressure, get more assists than TO's, and hit fairly big shots. Avery Johnson or Speedy Claxton; it doesn't have to be an All-Star... I look back and see the Heat topple the Mavericks with Jason Williams and an ancient Gary Payton running the point! Not exactly top 10 point guards...

If the Spurs are looking to improve through a trade (ie. getting back a package of young talent: PG + SF/PF, or, PG + C), Parker may be the best piece to work with. Plenty of teams would want Parker, which is exactly why the struggling Spurs should sell him as high as possible, while they still can. I'm sort of biased though - I'm really high on Ginobili and value him just as much as Parker (at least for the Spurs). Versitality is big nowadays, and Ginobili's skills and qualities are definitely varied... Don't get me wrong, Parker is definitely a steal, and I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking he's untouchable. But, sometimes you have to give some to get some, and for me, that would be our score-first-guard, Parker. I imagine for others, that'd be the aging Ginobili... but that's if we're talking trading one of the big 3 in the first place. Which I wouldn't say is necessary just yet.

Totally agree with you, most unbiased view in the thread. Parker is good but he is not the total fit for this team, his natural talent carries him a long way. If we could get a quality PG and SF or draft pick(preferably a non playoff contender) I would include Tony in a package. And of the big three he is the most touchable, Timmy is the franchise, and Manu is the spark plug, and he happens to be latino.

[dg7md]

Trading TP would be the dumbest move of the entire century. He's THE best point guard in the NBA. Nash is the best "pure", but Parker is just so good at scoring and being proficient.

[WalterBenitez]

I won´t even take seriously any trade talk TP, but people when the kid sucks ...SUCKS ... 20 shots for 19 points ... please!

[fred33]

Tony Was Good Yesterday Tim Duncan Sucked

[JPB]

I'll never understand how people can't see what TP brings to his team.
The TP bashing had stopped since a fex weeks and then after a loss where he tried to make things happen here we go again...

Did you see the game last night ?
Watch it again and see how :

-First half he created good open shoots for BB, BB2 and MF.
- 3rd quarter when nobody could score, he took fire and keep the game tied.
- Then he left and when he returned, it was a 10 points-game and he tried to provocate things and draw fouls. Besides him and Tim, I can't remember any spur on the FT line.

There are many other spurs to call on this game other than TP who tried hard.

He was not always succesfull but had the rest of the team played decently, this could have been a close game.


Sure, trade TP to a team where he can play with guys who can shoot, run with him and propose him solutions. He'll have some fun.

His assists number would significantly grow up. If you give the ball to player who create his shoot without tking more than one step, it's a

[JPB]

n assist in NBA.

I'd be curious to know the +/- on this game fot TP.

[ShoogarBear]

Nash kills parker everytime.......Now you've just exposed your degree of basketball ignorance.

[mavsfan1000]

Parker is clearly the second best player on this team. Manu is a distant 3rd. The rest of the team sucks though after Manu. Maybe a Steve Nash would help the rest of the players more but I doubt he is available. Kidd is not the player he once was so I don't see that as an improvement over Parker. San Antonio needs to get better at other position. (SF, C, Backup PG, SG not named Manu, Backup SF, Backup PF, and Backup Center) A lot of positions that need to be addressed so you have to look pass Parker, Manu, and Duncan on this.

[Dartherus]

Parker is clearly the second best player on this team. Manu is a distant 3rd. The rest of the team sucks though after Manu. Maybe a Steve Nash would help the rest of the players more but I doubt he is available. Kidd is not the player he once was so I don't see that as an improvement over Parker. San Antonio needs to get better at other position. (SF, C, Backup PG, SG not named Manu, Backup SF, Backup PF, and Backup Center) A lot of positions that need to be addressed so you have to look pass Parker, Manu, and Duncan on this.
Where do you get this certainity?

Did you realize that IN THE LAST RING GOTTEN BY SPURS...the one who was perhaps THE BEST (fighting inch to inch with Tim for the NBA PLAYOFFS AND FINALS MVP) was MANU AND NOT TONY?

Do you realize that, extra-stats, the difference between BASKETBALL IQ between Manu and Tony would be like comparing Einstein's IQ with yours?

Do you realize that Baskebtall IQ is useful for final quarters and playoffs, where the Deffense is harder ?

Do you realize that when the D is soft (crap games of regular season, and minutes before the final quarter), the one with better physical shape is the one who can score more, and that with weak D, Basketball IQ is less useful, cause any player with low IQ and great physical gifts can also score?

Even checking stats...do you realize that Manu....despite not being in his best shape.... THIS SEASON have more efficiency per minutes and points per minute than Tony?

How come a one-dimensional player like Tony, can be 'better' than a so unpredictable player in offense and so better defender, like Manu, can you explain? based just in pure scoring in crap games of regular season?

FWIW, I don't cpnsider Parker a bad player at all, but he's too one-dimensional and lacks court vision and basketball IQ, these are severe shortcoming when fighting in IMPORTANT GAMES OR MINUTES...and that's when Manu's superior Basketball IQ and variety of skills will always be a superior contribution to the Spurs to what Tony can bring.

[stewart]

MANU PROOVED HIS BIG BIG BIG BASKETball IQ when he fouled dirk on that last possession :smokin

[bdictjames]

Let Tony score and Duncan rebound. Let Manu create the plays.

[stretch]

What's ironic is that he is a good shooter, he is a good passer, he is a good defender, he is good at creating shots for himself and others, and he can hit clutch shots. :donkey
hmm. suit yourself, homer.

[lefty]

He's THE best point guard in the NBA


:donkey

[stretch]

Parker is clearly the second best player on this team. Manu is a distant 3rd. The rest of the team sucks though after Manu. Maybe a Steve Nash would help the rest of the players more but I doubt he is available. Kidd is not the player he once was so I don't see that as an improvement over Parker. San Antonio needs to get better at other position. (SF, C, Backup PG, SG not named Manu, Backup SF, Backup PF, and Backup Center) A lot of positions that need to be addressed so you have to look pass Parker, Manu, and Duncan on this.
you're nuts. Manu is FAR better than Tony Parker, and is much more important to this team than Parker. right now, while Duncan is the best player, and most important player, Ginobili is the heart and soul of the Spurs. he does so many little things for this team, its ridiculous. hes not just a good guard. the guy is a very good basketball player.

[DarkReign]

TP is a shoot-first, pass-second PG who sint a very good shooter. Hes an exceptional drive-talent with no talent for passing. Thats all well and good on a mediocre team with no championship asperations (see AI in Philly, Baron in GS, Starbury in NYK, etc), but not good on a championship team that needs a balanced threat to keep defenses honest.

That Miami game was indictment against TP. Much like the Pistons, when they face a superstar player like Bron or Wade, they play a weird zone, where whomever is on the star, plays man, and everyone else zones behind. That would almost work with TP, since he either a) cant pass or b) doesnt choose to.

He needs to go. Manu is awesome, but hes not a PG. His PIP stat is awesome and all, but he is better suited to a struggling franchise. Trade TP + 1st rounders + whatever for CP3 or Baron Davis. I know thats a dream, but SA needs a true PG, not TP.

And when, oh when, are Spurs fans going to finally get sick of Eva face time?! Jesus! Is it like that on your local broadcasts all the time, too?! Eva this, Eva that, bla bla bla. Detracts from watching Spurs games when every cut is to Eva either clapping or Ooooo-ing. Like I give a fuck what she thinks or does.

[DarkReign]

It is good to get opinions from other teams' fans. I don't think the Spurs would ever get equal trade value on any reasonable trade proposal, so they would certainly be much better off keeping TP.

You have to give to get. Giving TP is not some schmuck PG for some other team. TP is definately a GOOD PG in a league with a vacuum at the position. The trick is trading him for a viable pass-first PG.

I dont CP3 is as untouchable as some think. And even if thats a pipe dream (which I am willing to admit), there are other veteran PGs who are available...especially if a blue-chip player like TP is in the deal.

[Spurminator]

Someone name the last team that traded their 2nd or 3rd best player and immediately improved.

Trading a young star player is something you do when your team is on an unsalvageable and permanent downward spiral. (Edit: Or someone is offering you Shaquille O'Neal) While this Spurs team may not have the talent to win a Championship this year or next, we do have flexibility in the near future to add pieces to make this a Championship team again. I'm not happy that we seem to be resting on our laurels until 2008... in fact, it pisses me off... but we're better off with that strategy than trading an All Star who also happens to be our only NBA-quality Point Guard. We will not get equal value for Parker.

[nkdlunch]

Eva, haven't seen a bitch with more makeup since that guy's momma in that movie Brazil, then again she probly needs it:
http://www.celebs-extreme.com/Mina%20bilder/Eva%20Longoria/PRVA7.JPG

[Kermit]

i'd still do her. it could be worse...

http://static.flickr.com/6/8716497_3b19ed5a0e_m.jpg

[ArgSpursFan]

Let Tony score and Duncan rebound. Let Manu create the plays.

You mean Move Manu to the SP spot and Parker to the SG?
they do it almost every game in the 4rd quarter.take a better look at any spurs game and you´ll see who is looking at POP when he calls the play,and you´ll see manu grabing the ball and tony runnin the court looking for and open look.
That´s been going on since 2003.

[lefty]

Eva, haven't seen a bitch with more makeup since that guy's momma in that movie Brazil, then again she probly needs it:
http://www.celebs-extreme.com/Mina%20bilder/Eva%20Longoria/PRVA7.JPG


:vomit:

[DarkReign]

Someone name the last team that traded their 2nd or 3rd best player and immediately improved.

Trading a young star player is something you do when your team is on an unsalvageable and permanent downward spiral. (Edit: Or someone is offering you Shaquille O'Neal) While this Spurs team may not have the talent to win a Championship this year or next, we do have flexibility in the near future to add pieces to make this a Championship team again. I'm not happy that we seem to be resting on our laurels until 2008... in fact, it pisses me off... but we're better off with that strategy than trading an All Star who also happens to be our only NBA-quality Point Guard. We will not get equal value for Parker.

I completely agree in that this sort of trade never actually has the return the teams are looking for, but I still feel the Spurs problems start with the PG and extend to a quality big-man alongside TD.

IMO, I would address the PG need first (due to the league-wide lack of talent at the postion), then the big via another method.

[nkdlunch]

:vomit:

where's that thread about Tony getting that close shave?? Maybe Tony needs to teach Eva how to shave? :elephant

http://s133702574.onlinehome.us/pictures/blog/evanomakeup.jpg

[elbamba]

I would take Jason terry over parker any day and I hate the guy...

Terry is not half the player Tony is. But I guess if you want another scoring PG rather than one who can pass and set up teammates then I'm not sure why you have any problems with Tony who has never been suspended for a playoff game and almost destroyed the whole season for his team.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not going to let you guys sit here and bash a player's significant other. Just like you can't bash Duncan's wife in the Spurs forum, you can't bash Eva in the Spurs forum. If you have any Eva Longoria commentary, take it to the Club - thanks.

[Kori Ellis]

I completely agree in that this sort of trade never actually has the return the teams are looking for, but I still feel the Spurs problems start with the PG and extend to a quality big-man alongside TD.

IMO, I would address the PG need first (due to the league-wide lack of talent at the postion), then the big via another method.

You think the Spurs problems start at PG?

That's hysterical.

The Spurs biggest problem is rebounding and interior D. That has nothing to do with the PG spot.

[elbamba]

WRONG....well partly..>Terry is in the 3 point contest so he's kinda an all-star :elephant

You might say Terry's situation is similar to that of the Mavs in general. Spurs win championships, Mavs make the finals, TP all star- Terry spectator at the all star game

[xapatan2]

You think the Spurs problems start at PG?

That's hysterical.

The Spurs biggest problem is rebounding and interior D. That has nothing to do with the PG spot.

Ah... Kori and Tim... I was saying to myself that i should take a 2 weeks time off the forum when i saw this post this morning ( for me now it is 5h45PM)...

Having the impression that american football fans ( i have nothing against american football fans by the way...) were spreading up the forum trying to share their view about basketball and game analysis...

Or i was wondering if it was hollidays time in America so that 10 years old fan of basketball ( may i precise that i have noting against10 years old fan of basketball, i was once a time ago ...) ware sharing their view after their third saw entirely game of the spurs...

don't know...

I won't even argue with the well known "posters crew against parker", i am already tired of helping people "open their eyes"... in a way that's my full day job...

But, Clap Clap and BIG BIG Props to you Kori for have the courage to argue or try to "open the eyes" in this nonsense post.

Xap'

[lefty]

where's that thread about Tony getting that close shave?? Maybe Tony needs to teach Eva how to shave? :elephant

http://s133702574.onlinehome.us/pictures/blog/evanomakeup.jpg

:lol :lol :lol

[mavsfan1000]

Where do you get this certainity?

Did you realize that IN THE LAST RING GOTTEN BY SPURS...the one who was perhaps THE BEST (fighting inch to inch with Tim for the NBA PLAYOFFS AND FINALS MVP) was MANU AND NOT TONY?

Do you realize that, extra-stats, the difference between BASKETBALL IQ between Manu and Tony would be like comparing Einstein's IQ with yours?

Do you realize that Baskebtall IQ is useful for final quarters and playoffs, where the Deffense is harder ?

Do you realize that when the D is soft (crap games of regular season, and minutes before the final quarter), the one with better physical shape is the one who can score more, and that with weak D, Basketball IQ is less useful, cause any player with low IQ and great physical gifts can also score?

Even checking stats...do you realize that Manu....despite not being in his best shape.... THIS SEASON have more efficiency per minutes and points per minute than Tony?

How come a one-dimensional player like Tony, can be 'better' than a so unpredictable player in offense and so better defender, like Manu, can you explain? based just in pure scoring in crap games of regular season?

FWIW, I don't cpnsider Parker a bad player at all, but he's too one-dimensional and lacks court vision and basketball IQ, these are severe shortcoming when fighting in IMPORTANT GAMES OR MINUTES...and that's when Manu's superior Basketball IQ and variety of skills will always be a superior contribution to the Spurs to what Tony can bring.
Well this isn't 2 years ago. Parker has gotten a lot better while Manu has gotten a lot worse. How did you get the idea that Manu is more efficient? Parker shoots 53% from the field while Manu shoots 45% from the field.

[dbreiden83080]

Tony is too young with too much upside ahead of him. However in the offseason the Spurs maybe should look into trading Manu if it means getting a really good big man next to Duncan.

[gsRt5]

Tony is too young with too much upside ahead of him. However in the offseason the Spurs maybe should look into trading Manu if it means getting a really good big man next to Duncan.


NOw that does sound like a plan aswell. And I want to apologize for my ignorance last night.....I was a bit sleepy and talking out my azz....

But ya, I do agree if we keep parker we do need to beef up the center position and maybe get some better swingman......I never understood why POP never draws up more slashing patterns for Finley and Berry. I would, with Parker dumping the ball and TD just there for the rebounds it could work. Afterall TD seems like he is having problems with his shot lately......

Again I do apologize.......And I have been reading and taking in all ur comments and maybe Parker is not most of the problems.........I'll admit I am wrong!!

[Axl Van Dam]

Well is it just me or does anyone else think he is overrated and we should try to get something for him while his name is somewhat big?
Ive never liked his style of play and think of it wasnt for the rest of his team he wouldnt do much. I cant stand when he drives and then jumps and looks to dump the ball and there is nothing. He doesnt do it as much than previous years but he still pulls it every once and awhile.

Another thing before I let him off the hook, he hasnt showed up in a playoff game that I can remember. He has always been saved by the bench and it always gets overlooked but in the clutch he is soft..


I know this is my first thread but I dont plan on it being my last. Ive been a spurs fan since birth and I hope things get turned around. I say whats on my mind and wish I would of found this forum sooner....

:madrun Trading TP or any of our big 3 is not the solution to our problems. What we need is to get a back up PG for TP, the athletic SF, a big man to back up TD and quite possibly to take TD's place ( hoping for Pau Gasol :rolleyes ) and a back up for Manu. Pop also needs to start playing E Will who I think is a pretty decent defensive player to shadow the opossing teams top scorer. Even Bruce Bowen needs help.

[Dartherus]

Where do you get this certainity?

Did you realize that IN THE LAST RING GOTTEN BY SPURS...the one who was perhaps THE BEST (fighting inch to inch with Tim for the NBA PLAYOFFS AND FINALS MVP) was MANU AND NOT TONY?

Do you realize that, extra-stats, the difference between BASKETBALL IQ between Manu and Tony would be like comparing Einstein's IQ with yours?

Do you realize that Baskebtall IQ is useful for final quarters and playoffs, where the Deffense is harder ?

Do you realize that when the D is soft (crap games of regular season, and minutes before the final quarter), the one with better physical shape is the one who can score more, and that with weak D, Basketball IQ is less useful, cause any player with low IQ and great physical gifts can also score?

Even checking stats...do you realize that Manu....despite not being in his best shape.... THIS SEASON have more efficiency per minutes and points per minute than Tony?

How come a one-dimensional player like Tony, can be 'better' than a so unpredictable player in offense and so better defender, like Manu, can you explain? based just in pure scoring in crap games of regular season?

FWIW, I don't cpnsider Parker a bad player at all, but he's too one-dimensional and lacks court vision and basketball IQ, these are severe shortcoming when fighting in IMPORTANT GAMES OR MINUTES...and that's when Manu's superior Basketball IQ and variety of skills will always be a superior contribution to the Spurs to what Tony can bring.

Well this isn't 2 years ago. Parker has gotten a lot better while Manu has gotten a lot worse.
Is this all your answer? that now it's different and Tony is better and Manu worse? Have you seen Spurs games, close games, important games, hot minutes?

Are you denying that D is crap during regular season and that the legends are born in playoffs and finals?

No matter how 'better' Tony is now or how 'worse' Manu is, Manu is still WAAAAAY ahead of one-dimensional Tony regarding Basketball IQ or court vision, and that is something inherent to a player, not something that usually increases with training (as shooting or having better shape, for instance).


How did you get the idea that Manu is more efficient? Parker shoots 53% from the field while Manu shoots 45% from the field.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/emanuel_ginobili/index.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tony_parker/index.html

Manu: 16.7 ppg and 17.04 Efficiency per game in 28.1 mpg
Tony: 19.0 ppg and 18.38 Effciency per game in 33.6 mpg

what part of 'efficiency PER MINUTE and points PER MINUTE than Tony' you don't understand?

Do you realize that translated to 33.6 mpg Manu's number would give 19.97 ppg and 20.38 Eff per game?

Of course that's hyptetical, and that's why I talk about PHYSICAL shape, abd that's why I say Tony is in better physical shape right now...but, my point is that as a BASKETBALL player, Manu is better, and even now, with his lack of shape, Manu is doing well even in regular season (that's NOT his speciality) with stats per minute even ahead Tony (whose main performance is gotten during regular season).

[Don Quixote]

You think the Spurs problems start at PG?

That's hysterical.

The Spurs biggest problem is rebounding and interior D. That has nothing to do with the PG spot.

Hear hear.

Look, Nash is the undisputed King of the Point Guards right now. No one questions that.

But it's not like we're wheeling out a chump every night ourselves. Tony has only been selected to the All-Star game twice -- by the coaches -- who have to play against him and figure out a way to stop him.

Spurs fans used to say the same crap about AJ.

[Don Quixote]

Wow, amazing, mind-blowing intellectual analysis here.

The home team is lousy and the natives blame one of their best players.

How about we address the lousy bench, the lack of rebounding, the poor shooting, the old legs, and lack of a real center first. Let's take care of those things, THEN let's talk about our allegedly crappy point guard.

[GoSpurs21]

Manu's BB IQ is so high it cost us the championship last year...if it is so high then how in the hell does he foul Dirk at the end of the game with the Spurs up by 3?

[Cherry]

What's ironic is that he is a good shooter, he is a good passer, he is a good defender, he is good at creating shots for himself and others, and he can hit clutch shots. :donkey


:dizzy

[Kori Ellis]

:dizzy

Yeah that's already been proven with actual stats of shots hit in closing minutes of games that Tony hits a good share of clutch shots. But people don't want to believe it.

Either way, I really wish you all would get the hell off the Manu vs Tony thing.

[Cherry]

Yeah that's already been proven with actual stats of shots hit in closing minutes of games that Tony hits a good share of clutch shots. But people don't want to believe it.

Either way, I really wish you all would get the hell off the Manu vs Tony thing.

I´m sorry, i´m not into the Manu vs Tony thing, i was thinking more about last game in the 4 qtr. :(

[gregpschneid]

They should trade tony for a good solid point guard and an athletic 3..........

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

For Gasol? YES

[Phenomanul]

Tony is too young with too much upside ahead of him. However in the offseason the Spurs maybe should look into trading Manu if it means getting a really good big man next to Duncan.


Half the roster will be gone next year.... no need to trade any of the big 3 to improve the roster. The cap room will be there to sign them outright... should they want to be here of course.



D. Howard a Spur in '08????? The possibility is growing.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not going to let you guys sit here and bash a player's significant other. Just like you can't bash Duncan's wife in the Spurs forum, you can't bash Eva in the Spurs forum. If you have any Eva Longoria commentary, take it to the Club - thanks.

[Phenomanul]

Is this all your answer? that now it's different and Tony is better and Manu worse? Have you seen Spurs games, close games, important games, hot minutes?

Are you denying that D is crap during regular season and that the legends are born in playoffs and finals?

No matter how 'better' Tony is now or how 'worse' Manu is, Manu is still WAAAAAY ahead of one-dimensional Tony regarding Basketball IQ or court vision, and that is something inherent to a player, not something that usually increases with training (as shooting or having better shape, for instance).



http://www.nba.com/playerfile/emanuel_ginobili/index.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tony_parker/index.html

Manu: 16.7 ppg and 17.04 Efficiency per game in 28.1 mpg
Tony: 19.0 ppg and 18.38 Effciency per game in 33.6 mpg

what part of 'efficiency PER MINUTE and points PER MINUTE than Tony' you don't understand?

Do you realize that translated to 33.6 mpg Manu's number would give 19.97 ppg and 20.38 Eff per game?

Of course that's hyptetical, and that's why I talk about PHYSICAL shape, abd that's why I say Tony is in better physical shape right now...but, my point is that as a BASKETBALL player, Manu is better, and even now, with his lack of shape, Manu is doing well even in regular season (that's NOT his speciality) with stats per minute even ahead Tony (whose main performance is gotten during regular season).

While I would agree that Ginobili's intangibles and court vision rate higher than Parker's... there's no way you can claim that Tony is a 1-dimensional player and that his BB-IQ is that distant from Ginobili's. His shot is much improved this year. Opposing coaches develop their game plan around limiting Parker's penetrations.

Our problem this year has not been Tony.... this is evidenced by the slump our team usually falls in when he is subbed out. Tony has been the most consistent Spur this year with the exception of maybe 3 or 4 games. I know Ginobili will bring it during the playoffs but the Spurs will no doubt require Tony's production.

The anti-Parker contingent in here (more like down in Argentina) is blinded by their fanaticism for Manu. It downright disgusts me.

The Spurs need both Manu and Parker to be successful. Can't you guys (and gals) simply lose the hate and appreciate the magnificent backcourt the Spurs are blessed to have?

[midgetonadonkey]

There is no way Tony should be traded. I think Manu should be traded before Tony but neither one are going anywhere so this thread is stupid. Stupid!

[Dartherus]

While I would agree that Ginobili's intangibles and court vision rate higher than Parker's... there's no way you can claim that Tony is a 1-dimensional player and that his BB-IQ is that distant from Ginobili's. His shot is much improved this year. Opposing coaches develop their game plan around limiting Parker's penetrations.

Our problem this year has not been Tony.... this is evidenced by the slump our team usually falls in when he is subbed out. Tony has been the most consistent Spur this year with the exception of maybe 3 or 4 games. I know Ginobili will bring it during the playoffs but the Spurs will no doubt require Tony's production.
I never denied Tony's importance during regular season or his contribution....I was pointing analysisis and numbers that debunked the Mav's fan statements.


The anti-Parker contingent in here (more like down in Argentina) is blinded by their fanaticism for Manu. It downright disgusts me.

The Spurs need both Manu and Parker to be successful. Can't you guys (and gals) simply lose the hate and appreciate the magnificent backcourt the Spurs are blessed to have?
First, not argentinian at all, I know Euroleague closely, that's why I know about former and current euroleague stars, like Ginobili or Scola.

Second, If you've read former pages, I DIDN'T START the discussion, I ANSWERED to the Mavs fan stating that Tony was clearly the second best Spurs player and Manu was distant 3rd. I showed ARGUMENTS AND FACTS showing that Manu is far more important WHEN THE D IS HARDER, like in final quarters, important games or playoffs.

[slayermin]

As a Spurs Fan, I have too much invested in Tony Parker, emotionally, to see him traded. Part of being a fan is watching your players develop. He has improved every season since 2002 and his shooting improvement this year has me very excited for the future.

The guy is tough, durable, and fearless. I think he's very close to being number one. On many nights, he is the best point guard in the game.

[z0sa]

on many nights, steve nash is the best pg in the league.

[AFBlue]

Half the roster will be gone next year.... no need to trade any of the big 3 to improve the roster. The cap room will be there to sign them outright... should they want to be here of course.



D. Howard a Spur in '08????? The possibility is growing.

More than half of the roster will be gone in '08, but as for next year....

Horry & Bonner contracts expire, and Oberto & Finley have player options to opt out of their contracts. At most that's 4 roster spots, though I doubt Oberto or Finley could garner more than the $2M or so they earn right now in the open market.

[Ariel]

The anti-Parker contingent in here (more like down in Argentina) is blinded by their fanaticism for Manu. It downright disgusts me.
Blah blah blah. Go read the thread over and then tell me if you can pin this one on the Argentine contingent, as you call it. Fact is blaming us is the standard way of deflecting any argument that doesn't portray Tony on a good light, a catch-all for those uncomfortable situations your own countrymen are putting you in. Now, there may have been cases in the past where such excuse were pertinent, but this is not it: the most vocal participants in this discussion are not our own. So stop shrugging off any view that makes you uncomfortable by deflecting responsibility to your convenience on mere bystanders in the crash.

[gregpschneid]

There is no way Tony should be traded. I think Manu should be traded before Tony but neither one are going anywhere so this thread is stupid. Stupid!


Trade tony for kirk hinrich and thabo sefolosha. That would be great!! tony is a great scorer, but he's never been a good decision maker.

[kinbenzoo]

no we need tony
but if we got nash


good news -)

[ginobili fan]

Ok then,trade Tony.
But why do you think the other teams want him if he is a bitch like the every bitch here who are stating it?
Its nonesense.
And for the first bitch who started this thread,you're saying yourself that parker has a name.
Why do you think he has a name then?
Why do you think he has been choosed all-star by all the respectable coaches who are not bitches for sure?
Then you're admitting yourself that tony is one of the best so it isn't a basketball question for sure.You're just a HATER(=BITCH)
Go masturbate my bitch on eva longora

[RC's Boss]

Young All Star PG's That have been to the finals twice and past the 1st round each year he's played don't get traded. Whether you want it to happen or not, IT AIN"T. SG come a dime a dozen and can be replaced a lot easier.

[ginobili fan]

exactly what I'm saying,what you're saying,what all the REAL spursfans are saying.
Except the...bitches,the REAL bitches haters

[DarkReign]

Young All Star PG's That have been to the finals twice and past the 1st round each year he's played don't get traded. Whether you want it to happen or not, IT AIN"T. SG come a dime a dozen and can be replaced a lot easier.

Sorry, in my eyes, PGs are judged by their ability to get their teammates involved. TP doesnt do that. He drives, he finishes, hes awesome in that regard.

But hes not a consumate PG by any stretch. Hes a hybrid more suited to a SG than PG in my opinion.

I dont know why he doesnt drive and kick more, Im not Pop. But its all well and good that he can get to the rim at will, but that is not a catalyst for your teammates. Nor is all that good of a jump shooter. Or a 3pt shooter for that matter. So that makes him one-dimensional. Speed. Drive. Score. Thats it.

Maybe I put too much priority on such things. But to me, TP is one helluva tradeable asset and should be treated as such. Hes still young, and I may just be wrong, but I would want and will always want a pass-first PG. Always. TP is 19th in the league in ASP, thats not good enough IMO. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&league=nba&sort=asts&season=2007)

Whatever. Your team. Your problems. The untouchables are only what you make them.

[Phenomanul]

Blah blah blah. Go read the thread over and then tell me if you can pin this one on the Argentine contingent, as you call it. Fact is blaming us is the standard way of deflecting any argument that doesn't portray Tony on a good light, a catch-all for those uncomfortable situations your own countrymen are putting you in. Now, there may have been cases in the past where such excuse were pertinent, but this is not it: the most vocal participants in this discussion are not our own. So stop shrugging off any view that makes you uncomfortable by deflecting responsibility to your convenience on mere bystanders in the crash.


Read my username.....


I'm as big a Manu fan as any out there... that is no reason to bash Tony's game.

As for your assumption that my claim was based solely on the thread you are mistaken. The anti-Parker contingent is well known in the forum... I don't need to pick 'em out.

[EVAY]

Spurs fans don't realize how good of a percentage that is. They run around wetting their pants over other guys in the league that average in low 40's and then bitch about Tony's efficiency. Tony has his faults like everyone else, but he's 24 and improving every single year.

But some people hate him just to hate. I don't get it.

If you have to hate a Spurs player, some others are more worthy of it.


Agreed. And true. I just don't understand what some folks think he should be doing that he is NOT doing. The only thing I can fault Tony for, realistically, is that he gets into a tit-for-tat with other point guards when they score. he wants to get backand score himself evrytime another star point guard scores and he takes the sput=rs out of their offense soe=metimes when he does that. Other than that...the guys is second only to Steve Nash in his offensive stats this year, and plays defense WAY better than Nash evder thought of it. Tony is never going to have the sort of assist stats that some guards have because the Spurs are poor shooters, and because the Spurs' game is through Tim as much as Tony, and Tim REALLY slows down the offense when it goes through him.
I don't mind people expressing a negative opinion about Tony, but I do wish that they would give credit where credit is due...and he has a lot of credit due him.

[Ariel]

As for your assumption that my claim was based solely on the thread you are mistaken. The anti-Parker contingent is well known in the forum... I don't need to pick 'em out.
I'm not assuming your views are derived from this thread, otherwise I'd have to deem your post delusional and not misplaced. But the point is, you dismissed this thread as blind Manu fanaticism by the anti-Parker contingent from Argentina, when there is hardly any Argentine participation at all in this particular thread. And since I as an Argentine don't appreciate the recurrent simplistic characterization, I ask of you, for future references, to wait until your claims are actually relevant to the topic at hand before pointing fingers. Thanks.

[Phenomanul]

I'm not assuming your views are derived from this thread, otherwise I'd have to deem your post delusional and not misplaced. But the point is, you dismissed this thread as blind Manu fanaticism by the anti-Parker contingent from Argentina, when there is hardly any Argentine participation at all in this particular thread. And since I as an Argentine don't appreciate the recurrent simplistic characterization, I ask of you, for future references, to wait until your claims are actually relevant to the topic at hand before pointing fingers. Thanks.


Fair enough... but if you look closely enough some Argentine posters are the only ones that seem to think Manu makes no mistakes whatsover and that Parker is the only one constantly making them. They can't see past Parker's mistakes and seem to hold a hypocritical stance when it comes to Manu's.

Does this apply to all Argentinians on the board? NO. And for future reference... that was never implied, nor did I state it as such...