Buck Harvey: The perfectly imperfect mix sinks the Spurs

[ro_50]

Buck Harvey: The perfectly imperfect mix sinks the Spurs
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA021207.01D.buckharvey.1a9cb4d.html

Web Posted: 02/11/2007 11:21 PM CST

Express-News

Michael Finley isn't to blame for what has happened. Neither are the Spurs for signing him.

And that's just it. The Spurs seemingly made all the right moves at the time they made them. If anything, the Finley signing in the summer of 2005 was seen as a godsend.

But there the Spurs were Sunday, losing yet another game, somehow looking slow and old even against the slow and old Heat.

With the perfectly imperfect mix.

The Spurs are one defeat from equaling last year's total number of losses, and that's some drop-off for a 63-win team that has been relatively healthy. Maybe that's why so many around the league don't rule out a Spurs recovery.

Haven't they often surged after the All-Star break? Don't they still have their three stars intact?

Finley is part of this thought, too. Just last spring against Dallas in the playoffs, he averaged more than 40 minutes and played well, and he has also shined at times this season. Finley started this road trip by beating the Lakers with an improbable 30-footer, and in Orlando, he threw in 18 points in less than 23 minutes.

He changes the Spurs when he plays this way, and this is the Finley who a half-dozen teams lined up for in the summer of 2005. Then, after Mark Cuban bought out his contract, a story in an Arizona newspaper began this way: "Dear Michael Finley, please come home."

Gregg Popovich then said publicly he expected Finley to do just that. Finley and Steve Nash were friends, after all. But most thought Finley would sign with Miami, since the Heat could offer more money than either the Spurs or the Suns.

Pat Riley sure wanted him. Eager to impress Finley on his visit to Miami, the franchise placed 20 posters of Finley wearing a Heat uniform on light poles on streets next to the arena.

Then Finley surprised everyone, including the Spurs. He saw the Spurs as the better fit, and the Spurs felt blessed. With his profile as the consummate professional — at this price — how could they go wrong?

The same was said about Brent Barry. Some in the national media thought his impact would mean more than any free agent who signed that summer. Nash, going to Phoenix, would prove that inaccurate.

Few questioned the Spurs when they passed on Josh Howard in the 2003 draft, and absolutely no one saw anything in the draft pick the Spurs took then and traded to Phoenix. The Spurs scouted the world better than anyone, and they surely knew Leandro Barbosa wasn't special, right?

Signing Francisco Elson was a bargain, and re-upping Robert Horry a must. Then there's Jackie Butler: One ESPN.com writer thought he was the steal of last summer.

No one, however, symbolizes the perfectly-imperfect more than Finley. He dropped from the sky to a franchise that always valued stable veterans and their influence in a locker room. Steve Kerr and Danny Ferry, among others, provided the same before.

But adding Finley to Barry, Horry and Bruce Bowen tipped the balance between brains and body. Spurs officials think Horry is the only one who shows any real sign of age, but it's still a combination that lacks explosion. Worse, unlike Kerr and Ferry, all are in the rotation.

Popovich treated Sunday's loss as he has others. "We're still not playing physical enough, tough enough," he said in Miami. "We're playing soft for too many minutes in the game."

But this year looks different. This time, the Spurs don't appear to have another gear to go to. Finley isn't the only reason for this, but he's shooting 38 percent from the field this season. And Sunday, with teammates creating open shots for him, Finley went 1 of 7 behind the 3-point line.

Finley will be harder on himself than anyone, and he will be back at practice today trying to find his jumper. But he ought to blame himself.

After all, if he'd taken the Heat's offer instead, he'd have more money — as well as a ring.
[email protected]

[timvp]

After all, if he'd taken the Heat's offer instead, he'd have more money — as well as a ring.

Yeah right. He would have been the best players for the Mavs in the Finals.

Less Posey = Loss for Heat.

[Kermit]

"Few questioned the Spurs when they passed on Josh Howard in the 2003 draft, and absolutely no one saw anything in the draft pick the Spurs took then and traded to Phoenix. The Spurs scouted the world better than anyone, and they surely knew Leandro Barbosa wasn't special, right?"

ouch. that's always going to hurt.

[Tek_XX]

Is this an obituary?

Karmas a bitch ain't it.

[SenorSpur]

Buck Harvey: The perfectly imperfect mix sinks the Spurs
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA021207.01D.buckharvey.1a9cb4d.html

Web Posted: 02/11/2007 11:21 PM CST

Express-News


Few questioned the Spurs when they passed on Josh Howard in the 2003 draft, and absolutely no one saw anything in the draft pick the Spurs took then and traded to Phoenix. The Spurs scouted the world better than anyone, and they surely knew Leandro Barbosa wasn't special, right?



[email protected]

I've said it then, I've said it a few hundred times more since 2003, and I'll keep on saying it. Passing up Josh Howard was the biggest "personnel gaffe" in franchise history. Especially considering SJax had just bolted the team in free agency that same summer and the fact that Howard, after a stellar collegiate career at Duncan's alma mater, should have never fallen to them in the first place.

They draft this guy and they never need Finley or Barry in the first damn place. The Spurs have their athletic swingman and Bowen heir apparent all in one. This bone-headed decision altered the fortunes of two franchises - Spurs and Mavs.

This is EXACTLY what I mean when I say the Spurs have gotten their collective scouting noses so far up the international player butts that they've virtually ignored the domestic collegiate talent pool. The list goes on and on.

This was unforgivable sin and one that will continue to haunt them the balance of Howard's all-star career. :bang

[ro_50]

I've said it then, I've said it a few hundred times more since 2003, and I'll keep on saying it. Passing up Josh Howard was the biggest "personnel gaffe" in franchise history. Especially considering SJax had just bolted the team in free agency that same summer and the fact that Howard, after a stellar collegiate career at Duncan's alma mater, should have never fallen to them in the first place.

They draft this guy and they never need Finley or Barry in the first damn place. The Spurs have their athletic swingman and Bowen heir apparent all in one. This bone-headed decision altered the fortunes of two franchises - Spurs and Mavs.

This is EXACTLY what I mean when I say the Spurs have gotten their collective scouting noses so far up the international player butts that they've virtually ignored the domestic collegiate talent pool. The list goes on and on.

This was unforgivable sin and one that will continue to haunt them the balance of Howard's all-star career. :bang


I watch a lot more college basketball than I do the NBA and I saw Josh Howard play a lot at Wake Forest and in MY mind, even after seeing the Spurs win the 2003 NBA Title, I was hoping if Howard did fall that far in the first round, that the Spurs SHOULD take him.

But they drafted Barbosa and traded the pick away to get that little bit more money for the FA pool, which turns out, didn't help that much anyways.

I cringed that night when they didn't draft him and I don't like to second guess RC and Pop, but coming from this college basketball junkie, that move not to draft him kind of irritated me. And I said this that night in 2003, not when Howard became a special player w/ the Mavs.

Howard was the perfect fit for the Spurs because remember, they needed someone as a potential replacement for Stephen Jackson because we knew that SJax was going to test the market.

The coach that recruited him to Wake Forest, Dave Odom, who coached TD when he was at WF, said Howard and TD were two of the hardest working and coach-able players he's had in his time in the game.

[Mr. Body]

Missing Josh Howard cost the Spurs a championship last year, should have given the Mavs the championship last year, will give it to them this year, and has a good chance of giving it to them again next year.

[ChumpDumper]

Thanks for reading the forum, Buck!

[AlamoSpursFan]

I've said it then, I've said it a few hundred times more since 2003, and I'll keep on saying it. Passing up Josh Howard was the biggest "personnel gaffe" in franchise history.

What am I? Chopped liver?

Sincerely,
Alfredrick Hughes

:lol

[whottt]

and absolutely no one saw anything in the draft pick the Spurs took then and traded to Phoenix.


Absolutely false...some of us in the FSP chat immediately had a shit fit when the Spurs traded that pick that night. Barbosa or not...it was an obvious bad idea to trade that pick.

I bet Greek Baby Shaq is in the NBA next year too...

[Mr. Body]

I bet Greek Baby Shaq is in the NBA next year too...

To be fair, he's having big weight and attitude issues. He doesn't have the conditioning to play very much and is getting into it with his team.

[whottt]

Looked pretty good to me when he was kicking Team USA's ass this past summer.

[Mr. Body]

That was last summer.

[mountainballer]

Few questioned the Spurs when they passed on Josh Howard in the 2003 draft, and absolutely no one saw anything in the draft pick the Spurs took then and traded to Phoenix. The Spurs scouted the world better than anyone, and they surely knew Leandro Barbosa wasn't special, right?


Spurs FO has built a reputation based on genious moves till 2002.
since then the FO's moves have been average at best, but it took some years till medias started to question the quality of those moves. as lang as the success was there (thanks to Tim, Tony, Manu and Bruce), they usually raved about anything the Spurs FO did and never evaluated it later. so the FO was quite overrated the last 4 years, maybe a little bit more questioning would have helped themself to do a better work. (in other words: to be less conservative in their decission making)

the 2003 draft is somehow symbolic for that. there are still some people out there, who claim, that the traded pick later resulted in Nazr and the title 2005. this is how the whole overrating thing works. on the one hand, it wasn't the big plan in 2003 to use the pick in 2005 for getting Nazr, on the other hand, if the pick 2003 would have been used for Howard (or Barbosa, or Mo Williams, or Pachulia, or James Jones, or Kyle Korver) thoses players would also have helped, not only 2005, but also 06, 07 and counting. or, if thoses players would have been used as trade baits in 2005, they would have landed the Spurs much more than just Nazr.

overall it must be said, that since 2002, the Spurs didn't make a single good draft decission. it is right, that even the best FO can't always find usefull pieces at the end of 1st round or in the 2nd round.
but only blunders for 4 drafts are a desaster.
yes, I include Mahinmi in this group, even if jury is still out on him. but 2005, even as the just crowned champion, it was obvious, in what areas Spurs are aging rapidly and would need immediate help. something that could have been provided by players like Lee, Gomes, Ellis etc.

[JPB]

Thanks for reading the forum, Buck!

hell yes, Kori should ask her 10 % on what Buck Harvey is making.

[Holt's Cat]

Thanks for reading the forum, Buck!

No kidding.

[SAGambler]

And that's just it. The Spurs seemingly made all the right moves at the time they made them. If anything, the Finley signing in the summer of 2005 was seen as a godsend.

I remember right after they signed Fin and NVE, I got a pamphlet in the mail from one of the Sports Books as they were making predictions for the year,

Their message was "With the signing of Michael Finley and now Nick Van Exel, how will anyone ever stop the Spurs now".

Looks like even the bookies thought it was a hell of a deal. And these guys usually ain't wrong.

[ploto]

What was ironic about yesterday's game is:

Who was the player waiting for the Spurs while they talked to Finley-- who was in line to be a Spur had Finley chosen elsewhere-- yes, that's right- Jason Kapono. He waited all summer and then when the Spurs signed Finley he signed with Miami on the first day of camp 2005.

[Duncanoypi]

I remember right after they signed Fin and NVE, I got a pamphlet in the mail from one of the Sports Books as they were making predictions for the year,

Their message was "With the signing of Michael Finley and now Nick Van Exel, how will anyone ever stop the Spurs now".

Looks like even the bookies thought it was a hell of a deal. And these guys usually ain't wrong.

thats inaccurate...NVE signed first....then finley... :blah

and then the report..."NVE recorded his first assist as a SPUR!!!"...yeah right!

[fitzgerald]

Did not know Kapono almost signed with the Spurs. I am so glad he didn't. That guy is a straight shooter. He is really impressive with a very quick release. He would have Finley and Barry on the bench.

[Supergirl]

I'm still not worried yet. People are so easily myopic when it comes to their teams - they forget history. We didn't look all that good in 2003 at this time either, but we went on to win the championship by sheer will.

I think the Spurs will surprise everyone. They do their best work when everyone has forgotten about them, and often they blow it when expectations (or national television) are on them.

The last few games have been promising, even in the losses. Why? Because the Spurs are showing more grit, more determination, than they have been in the first half of the season. They're starting to warm up. The loss in Orlando could easily have gone the other way. They let them back in, and Howard made a lucky last second chance. If he had missed, this article would seem ridiculous. And the Heat game - the Heat needed it more. They haven't won against any good teams, and they couldn't risk going 0-2 to the Spurs. They needed it more, and it showed.

So what's promising?

Vaughn may actually be good enough at back up PG. He's a good shooter, and a good defender. Barry also has returned to his role as back up PG, and that's been good.

Duncan, Manu, and Parker are all playing better and better.

Horry is getting more rest, which means he'll have some left for the playoffs. I guarantee he hits one more big shot in this years playoffs.

Elson is healthy. Watching him against Miami was good. He really brings the athleticism the Spurs need to the 5 spot. Oberto should remain the backup C, although I like him and his work ethic, he's just not a good enough shooter or defender to be the starting C.

Finley will find his shot. It will also come and go. Same as Barry's. Same as other jump shooters. Both the Spurs and the Heat took too many 3's, and the Spurs lost because they missed too many. In a 7 game series, that stuff will always even itself out. Spurs have the ability to grind it out against any team in the league, and find ways to win. Let's look at the other contenders:

Suns- Spurs know how to slow them down, and stagnate their offense.
Rockets- No way McGrady's back holds up for even 1 7 game series, much less more than 1. And Yao is already hobbling, too. Too fragile. Same could be said for the Heat.
Utah -Too inconsistent. Too inexperienced. In a 7 game series they will fall apart. Same with Denver, really, if they even make it to the playoffs. Same with the Cavs.

The REAL contenders, the three I think will join the Spurs in the WCF and ECF.
Mavs - They've had a lot of luck, in schedule, and in health. We'll see if they can hold out.
Bulls - If Nocioni comes back healthy, and Wallace stays strong, they should be able to beat anyone.
Pistons - The signing of Chris Webber looks like the best signing since they signed Sheed in 2004. But Webber may disappear in the playoffs, or get hurt again.

I think it's going to be the Pistons and the Spurs in the Finals again.

[TwoHandJam]

Vaughn may actually be good enough at back up PG. He's a good shooter...

Sorry but I think you lost a lot of readers at this point....

[mountainballer]

I'm still not worried yet. People are so easily myopic when it comes to their teams - they forget history. We didn't look all that good in 2003 at this time either, but we went on to win the championship by sheer will.


jesus.
are you sure you are talking about the right team or year?

2003 at this time the Spurs were just finishing the best rodeo trip in history (8-1). this was the trip, that finally consolidated the reputation that the Spurs are starting their season at the rodeo trip.
I fear you are the one who forgot history. this year is the exact opposite of the same time in 2003 in any aspect.

and btw. Vaughn is not a good shooter.

[ro_50]

jesus.
are you sure you are talking about the right team or year?

2003 at this time the Spurs were just finishing the best rodeo trip in history (8-1). this was the trip, that finally consolidated the reputation that the Spurs are starting their season at the rodeo trip.
I fear you are the one who forgot history. this year is the exact opposite of the same time in 2003 in any aspect.

and btw. Vaughn is not a good shooter.


Ding, ding, ding, You are right. This is not the typical Spurs team that has used the Rodeo Trip as a springboard for the rest of the season.

[Big Shot Rob]

I'm still not worried yet. People are so easily myopic when it comes to their teams - they forget history. We didn't look all that good in 2003 at this time either, but we went on to win the championship by sheer will.

I think the Spurs will surprise everyone. They do their best work when everyone has forgotten about them, and often they blow it when expectations (or national television) are on them.

The last few games have been promising, even in the losses. Why? Because the Spurs are showing more grit, more determination, than they have been in the first half of the season. They're starting to warm up. The loss in Orlando could easily have gone the other way. They let them back in, and Howard made a lucky last second chance. If he had missed, this article would seem ridiculous. And the Heat game - the Heat needed it more. They haven't won against any good teams, and they couldn't risk going 0-2 to the Spurs. They needed it more, and it showed.

So what's promising?

Vaughn may actually be good enough at back up PG. He's a good shooter, and a good defender. Barry also has returned to his role as back up PG, and that's been good.

Duncan, Manu, and Parker are all playing better and better.

Horry is getting more rest, which means he'll have some left for the playoffs. I guarantee he hits one more big shot in this years playoffs.

Elson is healthy. Watching him against Miami was good. He really brings the athleticism the Spurs need to the 5 spot. Oberto should remain the backup C, although I like him and his work ethic, he's just not a good enough shooter or defender to be the starting C.

Finley will find his shot. It will also come and go. Same as Barry's. Same as other jump shooters. Both the Spurs and the Heat took too many 3's, and the Spurs lost because they missed too many. In a 7 game series, that stuff will always even itself out. Spurs have the ability to grind it out against any team in the league, and find ways to win. Let's look at the other contenders:

Suns- Spurs know how to slow them down, and stagnate their offense.
Rockets- No way McGrady's back holds up for even 1 7 game series, much less more than 1. And Yao is already hobbling, too. Too fragile. Same could be said for the Heat.
Utah -Too inconsistent. Too inexperienced. In a 7 game series they will fall apart. Same with Denver, really, if they even make it to the playoffs. Same with the Cavs.

The REAL contenders, the three I think will join the Spurs in the WCF and ECF.
Mavs - They've had a lot of luck, in schedule, and in health. We'll see if they can hold out.
Bulls - If Nocioni comes back healthy, and Wallace stays strong, they should be able to beat anyone.
Pistons - The signing of Chris Webber looks like the best signing since they signed Sheed in 2004. But Webber may disappear in the playoffs, or get hurt again.

I think it's going to be the Pistons and the Spurs in the Finals again.




Wow...

I don't even know where to start.

I REALLY want to believe this.

I REALLY want to believe this...

Can you pass me some of that stuff you're smoking --I need a hit NOW... :madrun

[objective]

jesus.
are you sure you are talking about the right team or year?

2003 at this time the Spurs were just finishing the best rodeo trip in history (8-1). this was the trip, that finally consolidated the reputation that the Spurs are starting their season at the rodeo trip.
I fear you are the one who forgot history. this year is the exact opposite of the same time in 2003 in any aspect.

and btw. Vaughn is not a good shooter.

Exactly.

People making excuses are forgetting that the 2003 team had a bunch of young guys and rookies in the rotation, who had to learn the system and play well with the established stars, players like Jackson, Manu, and Claxton. Back then Parker was only in his second year as well.

This 07 Spurs team is filled with over-30 veterans who know the system, know how to play in the NBA, know their role. They just aren't good enough to win with. And they aren't going to get better. If anything, they are going to get worse.

[Supergirl]

Exactly.

People making excuses are forgetting that the 2003 team had a bunch of young guys and rookies in the rotation, who had to learn the system and play well with the established stars, players like Jackson, Manu, and Claxton. Back then Parker was only in his second year as well.

This 07 Spurs team is filled with over-30 veterans who know the system, know how to play in the NBA, know their role. They just aren't good enough to win with. And they aren't going to get better. If anything, they are going to get worse.

Are they?
Other than the big 3, Horry, and MAYBE Barry, who exactly "knows his role" on this team? Even Barry is a ? for this, esp considering he's thrown out as trade bait every few months. But we ask him to be a SG, a PG, to be our sixth man, to play 10-12 minutes a game - even he can't be settled in yet.

Finley - this is only his second year here, and he's adjusting to being one of "the big 3" to being a role player, to not getting as many touches.

Oberto/Udrih - still adjusting to being in the NBA, as well as to the team

Elson/Vaughn - new team, new style, new role

[Extra Stout]

I'm still not worried yet. People are so easily myopic when it comes to their teams - they forget history. We didn't look all that good in 2003 at this time either, but we went on to win the championship by sheer will.
I'm sorry, but that is wishful thinking. The 2003 team by mid-February had seen SJax replace an immobile and useless Steve Smith in the rotation, and had Manu Ginobili return from the ankle injury he suffered in the World Championships that summer. David Robinson points to Manu's return as the difference-maker that year.

And rather than stumbling in mid-February, that team was setting a record for consecutive road wins.

This team has done the opposite of that one. Rather than mixing in a bunch of new faces, this 2006-07 team already had solid corporate knowledge among its core of players. They surged past other teams who were still feeling things out early on. Whereas the 2002-03 team kicked it into another gear to pass teams and catch Dallas, this team is watching as the rest of the Western Conference kicks it into gear to catch and pass them.

This is an instance of what Stephen Colbert called "truthiness": believing what you would like to be true, regardless of the facts. It is the last refuge of hope for Spurs fans in 2007.

[objective]

Are they?
Other than the big 3, Horry, and MAYBE Barry, who exactly "knows his role" on this team? Even Barry is a ? for this, esp considering he's thrown out as trade bait every few months. But we ask him to be a SG, a PG, to be our sixth man, to play 10-12 minutes a game - even he can't be settled in yet.

Finley - this is only his second year here, and he's adjusting to being one of "the big 3" to being a role player, to not getting as many touches.

Oberto/Udrih - still adjusting to being in the NBA, as well as to the team

Elson/Vaughn - new team, new style, new role

1st, Barry hasn't been a PG on this team in over a full season. And he's been around the block in this league for a LONG time, he knows what to do.

Finley has been around the block a few times. He knows what's expected, and he knows the system.

And Elson in Vaughn are both vets who are OVER 30. They aren't going to make some big transformation into anything other than what they've been their whole careers. There's no progress to be made. Bowen is one of the few who I think could be said was better at 33 than at 30 for instance, but he's the exception.

That is all entirely different from 03.

[Holt's Cat]

Ownership believes they can put an inferior product on the floor and Spurs fans will still show up and tune in. Fuck that.

[Supergirl]

Ownership believes they can put an inferior product on the floor and Spurs fans will still show up and tune in. Fuck that.

Well, that's just called being a fan. If you only want to watch when the team is playing well, you aren't a fan.

But that's not what this discussion is about. This discussion is about whether this team has what it takes to win it all.

The other teams in the NBA have more faith in the Spurs than the fans on this board do. You talk to other teams, and they identify the teams they least want to meet in the playoffs as the Spurs and the Lakers, and I think for good reason. Because any team with Pop/Duncan or Kobe/Phil in the playoffs has a good chance of beating ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE, no matter what playoff position they come in at.

[Extra Stout]

The other teams in the NBA have more faith in the Spurs than the fans on this board do. You talk to other teams, and they identify the teams they least want to meet in the playoffs as the Spurs and the Lakers, and I think for good reason. Because any team with Pop/Duncan or Kobe/Phil in the playoffs has a good chance of beating ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE, no matter what playoff position they come in at.
Other NBA teams are too busy playing their season to have scouted the Spurs in sufficient depth to discern how much their veteran role players have declined, and how desperate their center situation is. They respect the rings.