Can a player's absence bolster MVP argument?

[Shank]

With Nash being out and the Suns struggling (somewhat), can it be argued now that his absence will only serve to help the argument to make him the MVP? I'm starting to hear it from a couple of different outlets already today, but should that be the case?

But isn't it already widely accepted that just about any team would take a hit without their best player? If the Spurs were to lose Duncan for 8-10 games and lose 6 of them only to return to win 10 straight, would his name automatically be in the running for MVP? I'm only using Duncan as an example here, but I think you understand what I'm saying. If you take the best player off any team, don't they suffer?

So, should a player's injury be used to aid in his MVP argument?

(This isn't meant to be a Suns/Mavs/Spurs thing, either. I'm just asking if this time off for Nash helps his case more than hurts it.)

[JMarkJohns]

It's probably the most impactful way of determing "value"... What a team does with and how a team plays without.

Until the award is changed to "Player Of The Year", then yes, it should.

I still think Dirk will win.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

When the drop off is as steep as it has for the Suns in years past? Yes. In recent history when top stars like Kobe and Duncan have missed time their teams have guys who step up and keep them playing near .500 basketball, sometimes better. It reveals those players as the difference between a good team and a great team. In Nash's case the Suns suddenly look like a lottery team.

[ponky]

It's obvious that Nash is the key to the Suns' success and technically he is probably more important to the Suns than any other guy is to his team but does that mean he should get rewarded with another MVP? No, because his absence means he's not adding anything "valuable" to the team's success right now, HAHA! Also, on a sidenote, if the other two All-Stars can't win a game against a team like the Hawks, that's pretty sad. I'll give them the Bulls game, but the Hawks? Anyway, it's still too early to tell about the other two All-Stars. If they can manage to win the Sonics game I'll give them more credit.

[Bob Lanier]

The only objective measurement of a player's "value" is PER/$.

[sabar]

The only objective measurement of a player's "value" is PER/$.

So Beno Udrih's value is... $.000000507

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

It's obvious that Nash is the key to the Suns' success and technically he is probably more important to the Suns than any other guy is to his team but does that mean he should get rewarded with another MVP? No, because his absence means he's not adding anything "valuable" to the team's success right now, HAHA! Also, on a sidenote, if the other two All-Stars can't win a game against a team like the Hawks, that's pretty sad. I'll give them the Bulls game, but the Hawks? Anyway, it's still too early to tell about the other two All-Stars. If they can manage to win the Sonics game I'll give them more credit.

I don't like to use the past winnings criteria in a yearly argument, but that's just me.

Then again, I think Dirk is the MVP so far.

[1Parker1]

I think everyone knew that Steve Nash was what made the Suns go.

Problem is if you're going to base it on his absence to say how much he deserves to be MVP and how valuable he is to the team, I'd like to see Dirk miss a couple games and see how the Mavs look, or Kobe and how the Lakers will look.

[jigernt09]

how can someones case for MVP be helped if he misses games and his team stuggles??? i would think it hurts because, if he is the man that makes them go, then he is directly responsible for however many losses.....and an MVP doesn't put his team in a position to lose, does he??

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It will help his case. I don't think it should, but their record without him will be repeated ad nauseum by year's end.

[G-Money]

What if Steve Nash wins the MVP this year and then next year??? 4 time MVP think about that...how would that piss off Nash haters?

[mikejones99]

I already named D Wade the MVP. Did you see him block Tim's dunk? Case closed. No white man will ever be 3 times in a row MVP.

[Holmes_Fans]

Dwade won't be MVP. They have a bad record in a terrible conference. You have to be the best player on your team to be MVP(1. Shaq 2. Dwade)

[jigernt09]

I already named D Wade the MVP. Did you see him block Tim's dunk? Case closed. No white man will ever be 3 times in a row MVP.

that was a foul there buddy

[TDMVPDPOY]

nash absense doesnt show that his mvp, the suns have all the talent and look good on paper, and they should win most games, but they arent.

the only shit that its showing is how overrated there players are, the system relyin on nash only, antonis lame roster rotation.

[TheMulvany]

How about the 10 games the Suns lost when they had Nash?

Also, the Suns aren't having a problem scoring. Their defense has been horiffic (even moreso than usual) the last 2 games. When you give up 120 to Atlanta you just flat out suck. The end.

If anything, it should show how much of All-Stars Amare and Marion truly are. They cant even beat Atlanta. In fact, they got stomped by Atlanta. Good job, Half-Stars.

[baseline bum]

I never thought I'd say this, but it's really hard to argue that Nash shouldn't be getting his third straight MVP. Phoenix is a monster this season, and Nash just keeps getting better every year.

[leemajors]

how can someones case for MVP be helped if he misses games and his team stuggles??? i would think it hurts because, if he is the man that makes them go, then he is directly responsible for however many losses.....and an MVP doesn't put his team in a position to lose, does he??

that is a lame argument. mvp candidates aren't allowed to have been injured?

[jigernt09]

that is a lame argument. mvp candidates aren't allowed to have been injured?

sure but there not gonna be MVP candidates, in my mind, if they sit back and there team is suffering because of it.....like i said MVP's don't hurt their team and thats what Nash is doing

[Xylus]

Aren't the Suns like 4-2 with Nash out this season?

How does this prove that Nash's absence makes the Suns a bad team?
How does this affect the MVP argument at all?

[jacobdrj]

Case in point: Paul Perce
They haven't won a single game in his absence, in 16 tries. He has been good for 12 wins this year.
A single player... in the NBA...

MVP numbers right there...

[ponky]

Case in point: Paul Perce
They haven't won a single game in his absence, in 16 tries. He has been good for 12 wins this year.
A single player... in the NBA...

MVP numbers right there...

meh, but then you have to consider how many games the celtics have lost WITH pierce in the lineup (i don't know but i assume it's quite a bit)...it's more apparent when a winning team loses a guy

[mabber]

What if Steve Nash wins the MVP this year and then next year??? 4 time MVP think about that...how would that piss off Nash haters?

Don't see it happening but not cuz he's not capable from a performance perspectice. I just think he's already starting to physically break down. I think he'll be fortunate to make it through the rest of this season & playoffs. Yeah, he'll probably be playing but I doubt he'll be 100% (he wasn't 100% during the playoffs last season) and it's not going to get any better next season. Older players just don't ever totally come back from bad backs. He will do his best to play the next couple of seasons just cuz Nash at 80% still gives the Suns a fighting chance for a title.

[RonMexico]

It's obvious that Nash is the key to the Suns' success and technically he is probably more important to the Suns than any other guy is to his team but does that mean he should get rewarded with another MVP? No, because his absence means he's not adding anything "valuable" to the team's success right now, HAHA! Also, on a sidenote, if the other two All-Stars can't win a game against a team like the Hawks, that's pretty sad. I'll give them the Bulls game, but the Hawks? Anyway, it's still too early to tell about the other two All-Stars. If they can manage to win the Sonics game I'll give them more credit.

Nash is more valuable because he keeps Marcus Banks OFF the floor. In purely +/- sense over the past two games - when Banks has been on the corut, the Suns have been outscored by 43!! The Bulls game was shitty, but the Hawks game was ridiculous. I maintain Jalen Rose on the floor could have won that Atlanta game...

[ponky]

Nash is more valuable because he keeps Marcus Banks OFF the floor. In purely +/- sense over the past two games - when Banks has been on the corut, the Suns have been outscored by 43!! The Bulls game was shitty, but the Hawks game was ridiculous. I maintain Jalen Rose on the floor could have won that Atlanta game...

I was talking with Amare_32 during the game and I mentioned Jalen Rose before you, haha! Why D'Antoni doesn't play him a bit more right now is beyond me. It's too bad when the entire system falls like a house of cards because of one guy...guys like Marion and Bell need to work a bit harder at finding their own shots. I will give Barbosa credit though, he's been hanging tough and he's getting better and better, at least on the offensive end, haven't paid attention to his defensive skills.

[RonMexico]

Therein lies the difference: Barbosa is making himself better, but not others like Bell/Marion.

I couldn't get in these threads with you guys because I was in Dallas all weekend, helping write Dirk's new book: "Man on the Perimeter" about his difficulty being a Hasselhoff fan in America... or just partying in Uptown with a few friends.

[mabber]

Therein lies the difference: Barbosa is making himself better, but not others like Bell/Marion.

I couldn't get in these threads with you guys because I was in Dallas all weekend, helping write Dirk's new book: "Man on the Perimeter" about his difficulty being a Hasselhoff fan in America... or just partying in Uptown with a few friends.

Raja Bell is a good defensive player and good role player on offense at best. I'm fairly certain he's maxed out his potential at this point. I believe he's one of those players that is a perfect fit for the Sun's system but would struggle outside of it (or even in it w/o Nash). I really liked him when he was with Dallas but I think he's a bench player on most teams other than the Suns. He'd get Greg Buckner minutes in Dallas (16-18 minutes/game) and that's assuming Buckner wasn't on the team. He'd get less minutes than that if he were added to the Mav's roster right now. I think he & Buck would split up those 16-18 minutes. I just don't think he's a 30+ minute/game player in this league and shouldn't be even in the Sun's system but their depth at that position is not good.

I guess my main point is that I don't think Bell can improve anymore. I think he's overachieving as it is.

[MrChug]

It amplifies the argument exponentially. That's a fact. It's very hard to prove a negative. The fact is that if Nash was NOT playing, the Suns are mediocre at best. When he is playing, they're "All-World". What more proof do you want?

I actually heard a guy say that it was the offensive system that made the Suns go and HAD THE AUDACITY to say that he KNEW that Barbosa would have the Suns at 60 wins too!!! :lmao

[sandeepgm]

Suns seems to be progressing like the old kings... Injuries during playoffs... A little bad luck this year and their window will be closed probably for ever and o yea next year raja bell has to become a little more of a psycho like artest...

[Shank]

I'm so proud of everyone in this thread. Minimal arguing, very little cussing and some decent discussion. I knew we could all get along.

Hold me.