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View Full Version : The Literal and Figurative Smoking Gun



Yonivore
02-13-2007, 01:06 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/389274610_ef942903f5.jpg (http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/)


This is the Steyr HS50, a single-shot bolt-action rifle of the shell-holder type, chambered in .50 BMG. You can get one if you pass a NICS background check and have $5,599.99 to spare (or you can get it on sale for $3,999.99 (http://www.impactguns.com/store/HS50.html)), plus another $1,000 or more for one of the handful of scopes than can withstand the recoil of such a rifle, and of course, the cash needed for the custom-made .50 BMG cartridges these rifles digest (military-grade 50 BMG ammo, designed for machine guns, is not designed for the long-range accuracy these precision rifles demand).

Field & Stream had a nice write up (http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/hunting/photogallery/article/0,13355,1575411_0,00.html) about the growing number of American shooters who use rifles of this caliber and design for long-range marksmanship competitions and hunting.

Today's article in the U.K. Telegraph is far more disturbing. It seems that Iran purchased 800 of the Steyr HS50 rifles pictured above in 2006, and to date, more than 100 have been captured in Iraq.

Say hello to the smoking gun (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/13/wiran13.xml).


Austrian sniper rifles that were exported to Iran have been discovered in the hands of Iraqi terrorists, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

More than 100 of the.50 calibre weapons, capable of penetrating body armour, have been discovered by American troops during raids.

The guns were part of a shipment of 800 rifles that the Austrian company, Steyr-Mannlicher, exported legally to Iran last year.

The sale was condemned in Washington and London because officials were worried that the weapons would be used by insurgents against British and American troops.

Within 45 days of the first HS50 Steyr Mannlicher rifles arriving in Iran, an American officer in an armoured vehicle was shot dead by an Iraqi insurgent using the weapon.

Over the last six months American forces have found small caches of the £10,000 rifles but in the last 24 hours a raid in Baghdad brought the total to more than 100, US defence sources reported.
It will be very difficult for Iran's apologists on the American far left to call these captured rifles "spurious (http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/02/ready-for-war-with-iran-bush-and.html)" evidence or "groundless assertions and half-truths (http://www.liberalavenger.com/2007/02/12/a-new-push-for-war-with-iran/)." The fact that 12% of the rifles purchased by Iran have been captured in Iraq sure sounds like evidence as strong as "videotape of the Ayatollah Khamenei himself attaching tailfins to one of these things and putting it in a box labeled "Baghdad -- ASAP (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_02/010723.php)."

No doubt Huffington Post contributer Cenk Uygur (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/i-call-bullshit-on-the-ev_b_41022.html) will soon be breathlessly telling us that since he's never heard of the country of Iran, this can't be true (http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/215386.php).

No, there is no way that the apologist left can blame this on the "Bush regime." Iran's government officially purchased these long-range rifles, and within 45 days of their delivery, one of these rifles was used to kill an American soldier in Iraq.

As Ed Morrissey stated this morning:


Pardon the pun, but this is literally the smoking gun. We can trace these weapons from its manufacturer directly to the Iranian government. The quantity in which they have been found in insurgent bases precludes any explanation that a few just got mislaid; they obviously have been transferred from an Iranian state organization to the terrorists in Iraq. It's the clearest evidence of Iranian involvement in attacks on Americans. The involvement of the mullahcracy is undeniable, and it is a direct retort to those who keep claiming that Iran has no stake in Iraqi instability.
The question of course, is what we can and should do in response to not only Iran's shipping these rifles into Iraq, but the heavier weapons, such as Iranian-manufactured 81mm mortar ammunition and Iranian-manufactured Explosively-formed projectiles (EFPs) that have been used by insurgents to kill more than 170 coalition soldiers.

Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit offers suggestions (http://instapundit.com/archives2/2007/02/post_2473.php):


We should be responding quietly, killing radical mullahs and iranian atomic scientists, supporting the simmering insurgencies within Iran, putting the mullahs' expat business interests out of business, etc. Basically, stepping on the Iranians' toes hard enough to make them reconsider their not-so-covert war against us in Iraq.
Hugh Hewitt, upon reading Reynolds' post, comments (http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/d025bef9-f24b-4dfc-86e5-3d525d8172ab):


If we know that Iran is killing American soldiers, if we don't punish that action is some way, the killing will not only continue, it will increase.
Hewitt's comment is as dead-on accurate as one of the .50 BMG bullets Iran is putting in the hands of anti-Iraqi forces. Unless the Iranian government is made to feel the pain of supplying arms, money, training, and personnel to fight America soldiers and the Iraqi government, then they will continue with their attacks.

Reynolds is also correct in his suggested approach of what I'd consider a "soft war" campaign of destabilizing the mullahcracy in Iran.


As I've noted in the past, the Hojjatieh sect presently running Iran is a cult of Shia Islam so extreme that Ayatollah Khomeini outlawed it in 1983. Their eschatology believes that the near-term messianic return of the 12th Imam can be brought about by an apocalyptic event, and it is reasonable to conclude that when aligned with their theology, the development of their nuclear weapons is being conducted with the express intent of triggering a nuclear war to bring about the return of the 12th Imam (http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/175357.php). If they are looking to trigger a war—both to get an increasingly dissatisfied Iranian population to rally behind them in the short term and to pursue their eschatological goals of bringing about some sort of apocalypse—the perhaps the worst thing we can do is engage them in open warfare.

I think we could certainly justify bombing EFP manufacturing facilities inside of Iran, but that might play into uniting the Iranian people behind their government; we don't want that.

No, Reynold's black-ops suggestions, and those like them, make far more sense, though the use of our massive economic and political power towards the same goal might be even more advantageous.

Economic pressure can be brought forth to decrease the cost of oil, weakening Iran's fragile economy which depends on its export, while other diplomatic and economic pressure can be brought to bear to make it far more difficult for Iran to purchase and import processed fuels. For a country rich in oil, Iran's refining capability is marginal at best, and it relies in imports of gasoline and diesel to keep the nation's economy afloat.

If the U.S. government were, for example, willing to pay a slightly higher price for these refined fuels that Iran was capable of paying for any sustained length of time (ostensibly to stock our own nation's reserves, of course), the application of supply-and-demand capitalism alone could potentially bring the pain that Iran must feel without a shot being fired.

Alternatively, if a more militant option is required, U.S. naval ships could enforce a blockade of fuels coming into Iran from the Gulf of Oman, far outside the range of Iran's military.

Diplomatically, if Iraqi Prime Minister were to forcefully condemn Iran's actions in supplying the insurgency within Iraq, he could justifiably accuse Iran of trying to overthrow a fellow Muslim government, an act that would put the Shia-run state of Iran in a diplomatic pickle in the overwhelming Sunni world Muslim community. Were Maliki to threat to ask other nations in the region for help, or even issue a toothless threat that Iranian actions in Iraq are viewed act of war against Iraq, he may be able to diplomatically put Iran on the defensive.

There are many ways to bring Iran to account for their war-making inside of Iraq, and perhaps the most effective options may not require direct military involvement.

boutons_
02-13-2007, 01:18 PM
"Iran's apologists on the American far left"

who's apologizing for or supporting Iran?

the far left is all alone in NOT WANTING the US to start military action against Iran?

What about just about all those leftist/commie/pinko/liberal retired US Generals who have said attacking Iran would be a disaster?

There are ways to pressure Iran, all of which must be tried before the military option, even if it means inevitable military action just delayed for many years.

But this WH/PNAC/AEI/neo-cunts are murderous Macho Man war-mongers and oil-grabbers who put the military option first. Don't expect any diplomacy or brilliant strategic breakthroughs from this crop of WH motherfuckers.

George Gervin's Afro
02-13-2007, 01:21 PM
Yoni uses baseless generalities? (the 'left'..) I'm stunned..

Unlike you Yoni we don't buy everything that comes out of this administration as the cold hard truth. Pardon us if we are a bit skeptical.

Yonivore
02-13-2007, 01:45 PM
Yoni uses baseless generalities? (the 'left'..) I'm stunned..

Unlike you Yoni we don't buy everything that comes out of this administration as the cold hard truth. Pardon us if we are a bit skeptical.
Hell, I might as well have just stolen the material like I usually do, I get blamed for the content anyway.

But, on the specific point.

If Austria sells 800 specialty rifles to the government of Iran and, less than 45 days later, they start showing up in the hands of Iraqi snipers -- killing Americans -- how do you explain it?

12% of the original order have now been seized in Iraq. That's a lot of guns to just leave laying around, don't you think?

boutons_
02-13-2007, 01:53 PM
There's a war going on. Shit happens, like <any businessman in the fucking world, including the USA> trying to profiteer in a war.

What do you want to do, Yoni, invade Austria?

I bet there are 1000s of US gun mfrs and dealers, all NRA members, who would love to dump their entire inventories onto the international black market. We know they already dump their inventories in gun shows into the US criminal market.

Riussia and China build millions of weapons and sell them to anybody for hard currency. But the biggest international death monger is the USA, including selling tons of shit to Saddam in the 80s.

ChumpDumper
02-13-2007, 02:00 PM
"Iran interferes with US effort in Iraq."

Who didn't think this would happen? Yoni is as disingenuous as ever, feigning surprise and outrage.

Yonivore
02-13-2007, 02:08 PM
"Iran interferes with US effort in Iraq."

Who didn't think this would happen? Yoni is as disingenuous as ever, feigning surprise and outrage.
Who said I was surprised.

This post was in direct response to the people who said there is no evidence Iran is aiding the enemy in Iraq.

This is evidence.

Yonivore
02-13-2007, 02:09 PM
There's a war going on. Shit happens, like <any businessman in the fucking world, including the USA> trying to profiteer in a war.

What do you want to do, Yoni, invade Austria?

I bet there are 1000s of US gun mfrs and dealers, all NRA members, who would love to dump their entire inventories onto the international black market. We know they already dump their inventories in gun shows into the US criminal market.

Riussia and China build millions of weapons and sell them to anybody for hard currency. But the biggest international death monger is the USA, including selling tons of shit to Saddam in the 80s.
The guns are specialized military equipment sold to the government of Iran. This isn't profiteering, it's providing support to the enemy in Iraq. It makes Iran complicit.

xrayzebra
02-13-2007, 03:13 PM
youni, why are you surprised that the lefties wont accept any
blame or accept any consequences for their beliefs. That is
the story of their existence. Only the United States is to blame
for anything. But they support the troops.

boutons_
02-13-2007, 03:14 PM
Iran is US's enemy.

Why do you assume Iran is everybody's enemy?

The US death dealers sell all kinds of military-only equipment and weapons to govts all over the world, has for decades, and will never stop doing it. Do you really think every bit of that equipment stays in friendly hands?

So there is evidence of Iran helping Iraqi Shiites (al quaida is Sunni), want to invade Iran?

Yonivore
02-13-2007, 03:21 PM
So there is evidence of Iran helping Iraqi Shiites (al quaida is Sunni), want to invade Iran?
If necessary.

But, I think there are other options short of invasion.

clambake
02-13-2007, 03:29 PM
The article said they"can" trace the weapons back, not "did" trace the weapons back.

It doesn't appear to be a difficult task in purchasing one of these weapons. They can be aquired around the globe. Where are the shipping manifest and invoices?

clambake
02-13-2007, 03:30 PM
Just don't want to "jump the gun". Ha Ha

George Gervin's Afro
02-13-2007, 03:54 PM
Hell, I might as well have just stolen the material like I usually do, I get blamed for the content anyway.

But, on the specific point.

If Austria sells 800 specialty rifles to the government of Iran and, less than 45 days later, they start showing up in the hands of Iraqi snipers -- killing Americans -- how do you explain it?

12% of the original order have now been seized in Iraq. That's a lot of guns to just leave laying around, don't you think?



I don't doubt that Iran is supplying these arms (and they should pay a heavy price for it if you ask me) but please excuse me from believing anything that comes from this administration. Their track record ain't so hot. comprende?

Yonivore
02-13-2007, 05:43 PM
I don't doubt...but please excuse me from believing...
If you don't doubt, why should I excuse you?

boutons_
02-13-2007, 05:55 PM
Pace Demurs on Accusation of Iran

By Karen DeYoung
The Washington Post

Tuesday 13 February 2007

General says he knows nothing tying leaders to arms in Iraq.

Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said yesterday that he has no information indicating Iran's government is directing the supply of lethal weapons to Shiite insurgent groups in Iraq.

"We know that the explosively formed projectiles are manufactured in Iran," Pace told Voice of America during a visit to Australia. "What I would not say is that the Iranian government, per se, knows about this."

"It is clear that Iranians are involved, and it's clear that materials from Iran are involved," he continued, "but I would not say by what I know that the Iranian government clearly knows or is complicit."

Pace's comments came a day after U.S. military officials in Baghdad alleged that the "highest levels" of the Iranian government have directed use of weapons that are killing U.S. troops in Iraq. No information was provided to substantiate the charge. Administration officials yesterday deflected requests for more details, even as they repeatedly implied Tehran's involvement.

In an interview yesterday with ABC's "Good Morning America," Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the administration is "pointing fingers at others" when its troop presence in Iraq is the source of most of the country's problems.

While not denying that Iranian weapons may have been found in Iraq, Ahmadinejad implied that if they were, it was not his government's doing. "Can Americans close their long borders?" he asked, noting that "millions" of Iranians cross the border into neighboring Iraq each year. "The position of our government ... and the position of the Revolutionary Guard is also the same: We are opposed to any kind of conflict in Iraq."

On Sunday, in a briefing for reporters, U.S. military officials in Baghdad offered a slide show and examples of armor-piercing explosives that they said bore writing and serial numbers from Iran. Briefers, speaking anonymously for what they said were security reasons, said the weapons had caused the deaths of 170 U.S. soldiers in the past two years. No cameras were allowed in the briefing room, and a transcript of the session was not provided.

The officials also showed what they said were false identity cards of Iranians whom U.S. forces had recently detained in Iraq. The men were described as members of the Quds Force, an elite unit of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard that U.S. officials believe is under the control of Iran's supreme religious leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

"We have been able to determine that this material," especially sophisticated roadside explosives called explosively formed penetrators, "is coming from the IRGC-Quds Force," said a briefer, identified only as a senior defense analyst. Direction for operations using the weaponry, he said, came from the "highest levels" of Iran's government.

Asked by reporters yesterday to provide more information on the charge, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said, "The Iranians are up to their eyeballs in this activity." He called the Baghdad presentation a "very strong circumstantial case," saying he was "not going to try to embellish that briefing" and "any reasonable person ... would draw the same conclusions."

White House spokesman Tony Snow offered similar responses. "Let me put it this way," he said. "There's not a whole lot of freelancing in the Iranian government, especially when it comes to something like that."

Pressed repeatedly, Snow answered, "Look, the Department of Defense is doing this. What I'm telling you is, you guys want to get those questions answered, you need to go to the Pentagon."

A call to the Defense Intelligence Agency brought a referral to the main Pentagon press office. That office referred a caller to the Washington office of the Multi-National Force-Iraq, which responded with an e-mailed copy of Sunday's briefing slides - containing no mention of the "highest levels" allegation and a request for questions in writing. Written questions brought no response. An official from the Pentagon Joint Staff said last night that Pace had seen the briefing slides but had "no personal knowledge of any senior involvement by senior Iranian officials."

Members of Congress have repeatedly asked whether the administration is planning a repeat in Iran of its 2003 invasion of Iraq. Intelligence findings that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction and had close ties to al-Qaeda turned out to be almost entirely false.

Sunday's briefing on Iran, originally scheduled for last month, had been delayed as officials said they were trying to avoid "overstating" what they could prove.

"There are certainly those who are in favor" of war with Iran, Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.) said Sunday of the Bush administration on CBS's "Face the Nation." "We've seen that in the past that they would like nothing more than to build a case for that."

In recent weeks, the administration has denied any war plans, saying it is committed to a strategy of pressure and diplomacy against Iran's nuclear activities, operations in Iraq and other aggression.

In an interview yesterday with C-SPAN, President Bush described his policy as "comprehensive" and complained that charges he is planning to attack Iran are politically motivated and "typical Washington."

ChumpDumper
02-13-2007, 05:56 PM
We're going to treat them just like we did North Korea.

That'll show 'em!

FromWayDowntown
02-13-2007, 07:16 PM
Oh goody!!! More opportunities for war! More chances to kill those stinkin' Muslims and bring Islam to its knees! Only this time, those chances bring with them the Vegas-like opportunity to take our chances with the possibility of actually fomenting a nuclear encounter!!!!

Where's Major Kong when you need him?

http://www.pro-war.com/prowardotcom/dr_strangelove_bombdrop-thumb.jpg

Yonivore
02-13-2007, 09:14 PM
i bet you 100 doll-hairs that american-made weapons have been found in iraq...wait..where were these sniper rifles made?
Austria. And, sold to the Iranian government approximately 45 days before they started turning up in Iraq.

Yonivore
02-13-2007, 09:21 PM
:lol anyway, arms dealing is a criminal issue, not a military issue
It was a legal arms sale,although one to which we objected. And, I'm sorry, when the arms are immediately shipped to a theater to be used against Americans, it's a military issue.

These aren't just any rifle. It's the same as Iran supplying the updated SAM's and the improved IED's. Without their support, the enemy in Iraq wouldn't stand a chance. They wouldn't be shooting down helicopters, they wouldn't be piercing the armor on our equipment, and they wouldn't be able to hit a G.I. in the head at 500 yards.

Fucking Iranians.

FromWayDowntown
02-13-2007, 09:25 PM
Fucking Iranians.

Kill 'em all.

WAR! WAR! WAR!

Yonivore
02-13-2007, 09:58 PM
Kill 'em all.

WAR! WAR! WAR!
Nah, the vast majority of Iranians are good and decent people. I say we rescind that silly anti-assassination executive order and start some good old black ops eliminations of mad mullahs and top Iranian elected officials.

Oh, Gee!!
02-14-2007, 04:57 PM
We did find the WMD's after all. Turns out, they're rifles.

ChumpDumper
02-14-2007, 05:01 PM
So why did Bush say he didn't have evidence the highest levels of the Iranian government were involved when the Pentagon did?

You'd think by now they'd try not to contradict each other.

boutons_
02-14-2007, 07:58 PM
"it's a military issue."

Not to the Austrians, it's "just business", which is something the US understands.

Yonivore
02-14-2007, 10:39 PM
"it's a military issue."

Not to the Austrians, it's "just business", which is something the US understands.
Business to which we objected because we knew where the weapons would end up. Now, it's a military issue.

boutons_
02-15-2007, 12:21 AM
"it's a military issue."

Not to the Austrians, it's "just business", which is something the US understands.

Believe it or not, all the other countries are exactly like the USA: they put their own interests first, way ahead of any other country's interests.

dubya/dickhead's ham-handed, go-it-alone, smash-mouth anti-diplomacy has convinced a lot of friends and allies to be extremely circumspect when the US is involved, to look after their own interests above all, more than ever.

eg, the US could really use a lot of help from Russia in handling Iran, but the US expanded NATO right up to Russia's border, while absolutely denying Russia's request to join NATO. Now, Russia is floating in oil/gas wealth, has Europe's energy balls in it hands, is run by a quasi-dicatator, and can flip off the US with impunity.

Yonivore
02-15-2007, 12:28 AM
"it's a military issue."

Not to the Austrians, it's "just business", which is something the US understands.
I'm not arguing the point. And, no one is accusing Austria of committing an act of war but, it's clear that the sale was instrumental in aiding the enemy in Iraq.

We tried to persuade Austria not to make the sale. It's disappointing that they did. The military issue is with Iran and what they did with the acquired weapons.


Believe it or not, all the other countries are exactly like the USA: they put their own interests first, way ahead of any other country's interests.
I believe it. In fact, America is the only country expected to forego their own self-interests in the name of globalization.


tourette's blather