Jackie Butler

[gospursgojas]

Is GARBAGE.

He looked like he was trying real hard to know where to be on D, and still was lost.

Spurs looked like they were looking to go to him on most of the possesions he was in on, and he did a bad job getting open... pretty much sat his fat ass on the defender and expected the passer to get it to him.

I know it was only 5 or 6 plays but he didn't show one glimpse of promise on any.

[Kori Ellis]

:lol

I completely disagree.

First of all he doesn't look fat. So people should probably stop calling him fat ass.

He just basically looks like a guy who is hesitant to do anything wrong and is still learning. The only person that really looked to get it to him was Tim.

The guards got it to him twice and he dished it back out (like he was supposed to) when the D came and got two assists.

He's not going to play this year, he's on the Stephen Jackson plan. So I don't get the point of starting a thread like this anyway when it's already talked about in the game blog.

[Budkin]

He's barely played in a game situation for the Spurs. Give him a break. Practice is nothing like a real game. If he gets regular minutes he'll improve a great deal. Like someone (timvp?) said earlier, he looks nervous that Pop will chew him out if he makes one mistake.

[Ninja-Defense]

Dude just needs more burn, but yeah he looked lost out there. Thing is, he'll only get more PT in blowout games and who knows how many more of those the Spurs will have this season. Man, he looks flabby out there!

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Way to make an assumption on just one game. :rolleyes

If you want to make an assessment on him base it on his time in NY.

[ducks]

dude lost 30 pounds have you lost 30 pounds and then tried to play basketball
it is harder and strange at first
he has to get his confidence that he can still play after he lost the weight

[Ninja-Defense]

Then again, maybe we Spurs fans gotta get used to seeing him in a uni since we've gotten so used to seeing him in a suit! Was he that big in NY?

[T-Pain]

David Banner!!!

[Ninja-Defense]

OK, then Pop needs to give him more minutes...but you know that ain't going to happen anytime soon! I want the kid to succeed here, especially after what he showed with the Knicks!

[Kori Ellis]

Then again, maybe we Spurs fans gotta get used to seeing him in a uni since we've gotten so used to seeing him in a suit! Was he that big in NY?

Umm... bigger. He's lost 30-35 pounds since he got here.

I don't know if you guys are expecting him to look anorexic like Elson or what, but he has a completely different body style than that.

Y'all are going to probably think Ely is tub of lard too:lol

[ploto]

He'll be back in street clothes soon so it doesn't really matter.

[koopa]

:lol

I completely disagree.

First of all he doesn't look fat. So people should probably stop calling him fat ass.

He just basically looks like a guy who is hesitant to do anything wrong and is still learning. The only person that really looked to get it to him was Tim.

The guards got it to him twice and he dished it back out (like he was supposed to) when the D came and got two assists.

He's not going to play this year, he's on the Stephen Jackson plan. So I don't get the point of starting a thread like this anyway when it's already talked about in the game blog.


this thread should've been locked after this post cause it's the perfect post to shut ppl up about butler........

no one should expect big things from butler this season, his time will be next year........

and why do ppl harp on his weight??? the dude don't look fat at all, not everyone is built like a twig like elson........

[ploto]

no one should expect big things from butler this season, his time will be next year........
Where are the people who said in the summer that he would be starting by All-Star break?

[RC's Boss]

David Banner!!!
:lmao :lmao :lmao How many will actually get that one :smokin

[Buddy Holly]

dude lost 30 pounds have you lost 30 pounds and then tried to play basketball
it is harder and strange at first
he has to get his confidence that he can still play after he lost the weight

Have you lost 30 pounds and then played basketball?

[koopa]

Where are the people who said in the summer that he would be starting by All-Star break?

hell if i know, i wasn't one of them...............

[Kori Ellis]

Where are the people who said in the summer that he would be starting by All-Star break?

What's funny (or not so funny) is that he could probably start and produce the same as Elson or Oberto.

[RC's Boss]

Where are the people who said in the summer that he would be starting by All-Star break?
:stfu :stfu :stfu ... You my friend, are a Raptors fan :rolleyes

[timvp]

Where are the people who said in the summer that he would be starting by All-Star break?

Says the person who predicted Oberto would be starting. To gloat, you gotta be right yourself once in a while.

[E20]

He looks like Tractor Traylor.

[Ninja-Defense]

How long before he gets put back on IR?

[ploto]

Says the person who predicted Oberto would be starting. To gloat, you gotta be right yourself once in a while.
I said Oberto would start on opening night the day that Rasho was traded-- and I was correct. :)

I never said he would start all season.

[Kori Ellis]

How long before he gets put back on IR?

I'm guessing as soon as Ely arrives.

[timvp]

Butler plays like Pop is going to kill him if he makes any mistake. He's lost a lot of weight so you can tell he's having trouble figuring out how to bang without being 30 pounds heavier than everyone. He desperately needs some court time somewhere to figure it out. Summer league is going to be huge for him.

Good points.

It was at least good to see Butler applying some of the defensive principals he learns in practice to the game. His perimeter switching was good for a guy his size.

He still has a loooooong ways to go. His confidence isn't there right now and it doesn't look like he has the body type to where he can sit out for two months and then step in and produce.

Still a very good prospect ... but down the line.

[Ninja-Defense]

I'm guessing as soon as Ely arrives.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too...which just reinforces the 'next year' theory, as far as getting a real good look at him.

[ploto]

I'm guessing as soon as Ely arrives.
Or Bonner suits up.

[Kori Ellis]

Or Bonner suits up.

Yeah I forgot Bonner was almost ready.

[timvp]

With the way the contracts are setup, Butler might be IR fodder for this year and next year. Especially now with Bonner and Ely, Butler will be pushed further down the totem pole.

But come 2008-09, the only players under contract are the Big Three and Butler.

:smokin

[ploto]

With the way the contracts are setup, Butler might be IR fodder for this year and next year. Especially now with Bonner and Ely, Butler will be pushed further down the totem pole.

But come 2008-09, the only players under contract are the Big Three and Butler.

:smokin
I believe that third year is a team option.

[koopa]

I believe that third year is a team option.


naw, it isn't a team option.....he signed a straight up 3 year deal, no options

[Kori Ellis]

naw, it isn't a team option.....he signed a straight up 3 year deal, no options

Hoopshype shows it as no option, but this other site I use shows it as a 3rd team option.

[timvp]

I believe that third year is a team option.

And if he shows any promise between now and then, that'll be a no-brainer.

He's a 21-year-old center prospect who played no college ball and only limited high school ball. He has a long career ahead of him.

On the season, Butler has eight points, three rebounds and two assists in 37 minutes of action. Not exactly enough time to judge a player.

Summer league will be his time to show what he can do.

[Solid D]

http://z.about.com/d/scifi/1/0/W/7/1/swempire12b.jpg

Just a little oil and some more corporate knowledge is all he needs.

[Taco]

Umm... bigger. He's lost 30-35 pounds since he got here.



I was going to say he looks like he dropped a bunch of weight

[timvp]

http://z.about.com/d/scifi/1/0/W/7/1/swempire12b.jpg

Just a little oil and some more corporate knowledge is all he needs.

:fro

At least those steel legs can set some pretty nasty screens.

[Borosai]

He looks a little chunky to me...

http://www.murderdog.com/april05/davidbanner/DavidBanner28_3-4.jpg

[ploto]

Oh, timvp- you forgot Beno's qualifying offer!! :lol

[ChumpDumper]

He wishes the Spurs had forgotten about Beno's option year.

[koopa]

With the way the contracts are setup, Butler might be IR fodder for this year and next year. Especially now with Bonner and Ely, Butler will be pushed further down the totem pole.

But come 2008-09, the only players under contract are the Big Three and Butler.

:smokin


ely and bonner ain't a guarantee to be back......... we also have ian waiting and he'll be cheap with the first round rookie contract so no negotiations would stall him from coming........

[Solid D]

In all fairness, last year Butler was a very impressive scorer. I haven't seen it this year, but he really had a knack for converting around the hoop.

[timvp]

http://www.rockfanshop.com/shop/watermarked/luisposter/4786.jpg

Here is Jackie Butler (pictured with Damon Jones) from last year when he was on the Knicks.

[Solid D]

:lol Biggie Bigs

[timvp]

In all fairness, last year Butler was a very impressive scorer. I haven't seen it this year, but he really had a knack for converting around the hoop.

He was also a very good rebounder last year. And that was a Knicks team that was a far better rebounding team than this year's Spurs team.

But again, 37 minutes in a season is nothing.

[ro_50]

:lol

I completely disagree.

First of all he doesn't look fat. So people should probably stop calling him fat ass.

He just basically looks like a guy who is hesitant to do anything wrong and is still learning. The only person that really looked to get it to him was Tim.

The guards got it to him twice and he dished it back out (like he was supposed to) when the D came and got two assists.

He's not going to play this year, he's on the Stephen Jackson plan. So I don't get the point of starting a thread like this anyway when it's already talked about in the game blog.


I know, you are right. It's funny how people make their evaluations based on on one game and not the entire body of work. He wasn't expected to do much this year and despite him playing some last year for the Knicks, like you said, it's the SJax plan.

SJax didn't play here much his first year after coming from the Nets, where he played a bit in his rookie season.

I just hope he improves, listens to the coaches, TD or whoever else and come summer time, I hope he plays in the Summer League and let's see then if he's good enough to get some consistent PT next season.

This is like a "redshirt" year, just like what James White is going through.

[exstatic]

Oh, timvp- you forgot Beno's qualifying offer!! :lol
Beno's QO is for next year, not 2008-2009 when only T,T,M&Jackie are under contract. He forgot nothing, pluto.

[Darkwaters]

The upcoming Summer league could be a very very interesting one for the Spurs. Jackie Butler, James White and Ian Mahinmi will probably all be seeing significant time in the leagues. Then factor in a first round pick, an early 2nd round pick (Milwaukee) and 1-2 late 2nd rounders (Spurs and Bulls) and you have a flurry of potential prospects banging around together. And that has said nothing of Sanikidze potentially making an appearance.

[timvp]

The upcoming Summer league could be a very very interesting one for the Spurs. Jackie Butler, James White and Ian Mahinmi will probably all be seeing significant time in the leagues. Then factor in a first round pick, an early 2nd round pick (Milwaukee) and 1-2 late 2nd rounders (Spurs and Bulls) and you have a flurry of potential prospects banging around together. And that has said nothing of Sanikidze potentially making an appearance.
Yeah, if that that team doesn't go undefeated in summer league, that'd be a bad sign.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

its difficult to get excited for a project player when we need help so badly right now

[timvp]

its difficult to get excited for a project player when we need help so badly right now

Very true. That is why the money spent on Elson could have been spent better on a player like Reggie Evans.

[milkyway21]

what you can expect from a guy who sat his ass on the bench for a long time and played only 11 minutes tonight?

2 attemps, 2 assts but no rbds(what we need from him most)

give him another chance people! :D

[gospursgojas]

All of you all sound exactly like all the Beno lovers did last year

[Kori Ellis]

All of you all sound exactly like all the Beno lovers did last year
Except Beno wasn't a 21 year old with very little experience last year.

No one says Butler is awesome, but most GMs in the league thinks he is a good young prospect.

Give the guy a chance at least before you call him trash.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I hope he turns into our Bynum.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I hope he turns into our Bynum.

you fuckn serious, anywhere or half of it and i be happy

we gotto get some fat fuck to train his ass

i say if all this doesnt work out, i say we ship him + barry + beno + oberto to seatle for wilcox + lewis :D

[Texas_Ranger]

Jackie > Moses Malone.

[remingtonbo2001]

Jackie > Moses Malone.

Agreed!

[milkyway21]

I hope he turns into our Bynum.Bynum is being trained by Jabbar. while Yao by former Knick Ewing.

who's training Jackie Butler? May i ask who, Mr. Holt?

i wish DRob a once DPOY could help train Butler too!

[slayermin]

Bynum is being trained by Jabbar. while Yao by former Knick Ewing.

who's training Jackie Butler? May i ask who, Mr. Holt?

i wish DRob a once DPOY could help train Butler too!

Tim Duncan?

[objective]

Bynum is being trained by Jabbar. while Yao by former Knick Ewing.

who's training Jackie Butler? May i ask who, Mr. Holt?



Cadillac Anderson?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Have you lost 30 pounds and then played basketball?
:lol yeah, that comment confused me. I was looking for Ducks response.

[freemeat]

:lol

I completely disagree.

First of all he doesn't look fat. So people should probably stop calling him fat ass.

He just basically looks like a guy who is hesitant to do anything wrong and is still learning. The only person that really looked to get it to him was Tim.

The guards got it to him twice and he dished it back out (like he was supposed to) when the D came and got two assists.

He's not going to play this year, he's on the Stephen Jackson plan. So I don't get the point of starting a thread like this anyway when it's already talked about in the game blog.


I completely agree with Kori on this all the way...He looks like he's getting in shape. I loved that Pop put him in there with Timmy on the floor, too. It looked like Timmy was trying to show him some love and give him a feel for what it's like playing in the system, rather than the normal "garbage" time he's seen so far this year. When Butler came in he was the only guy not in the normal rotation, so there is an obvious plan in the works to get him adapted to the Spurs' system (and how to learn to execute it in an actual NBA game, not just practice or garbage).

They did show a few lapses tonight, but overall it was a great performance. Someone posted a few weeks ago that it'll be a good sign when Spurs fans watch a game and notice those few lapses rather than the few good streaks. Albeit, the Nets are hurting right now (no Kidd, R-Jeff nor Kristic), it was good to see them execute well for the majority of the game...the biggest lapse I saw was in the first 5 minutes of the third quarter. I think they had four turnovers -- all unforced.

Although the beard could use some work (please just trim the pony tail on the chin), it's good to see the team click well enough to where they can let JB get some playing time with guys like the Big Three. He did miss his shots, but he looked good otherwise. The shots should come with the confidence that is provided from more time on the court.

After all, I did notice him manage to draw a double-team a few times in which he was able to recognize it and either start a drive or kick it out. If he's going to kick it out, he will need to let the double commit first, but I think he was just a little anxious being out there.

Props to Pop for not forgetting about a guy who some coaches would "lose" at the end of the bench...it was a good time to let him in, and even better to keep him (and the others, like Beno) when the Nets made a short run to cut it to 14. Showing trust in those guys on the floor can only build the confidence they need.

-- now raising a beer to Kori's insight as well as the hope of salvaging this trip at .500! --

[AFBlue]

:lol

I completely disagree.

First of all he doesn't look fat. So people should probably stop calling him fat ass.

He just basically looks like a guy who is hesitant to do anything wrong and is still learning. The only person that really looked to get it to him was Tim.

The guards got it to him twice and he dished it back out (like he was supposed to) when the D came and got two assists.

He's not going to play this year, he's on the Stephen Jackson plan. So I don't get the point of starting a thread like this anyway when it's already talked about in the game blog.

Agreed. He looked timid, which is no suprise because he hasn't been in many game situations in this system. No matter how much practice this guy gets, he'll need to get his feet wet in real game situations before he's comfortable.

Positives:

- Looked comfortable once he got the ball in the post (nice kickout to the open player on the elbow)

- Aggressive on defense (had two good shot block attempts)

Negatives:

- Did seem a bit lost on switches and didn't know his opposing player (Nachbar is a shooter, not slasher)

- Was aggressive on the boards, but rarely found himself in position

Bottom Line: He's got some work to do, but he's far from "garbage"

[AFBlue]

dude lost 30 pounds have you lost 30 pounds and then tried to play basketball
it is harder and strange at first
he has to get his confidence that he can still play after he lost the weight

Agree bigtime. I've said before that in New York he used his weight to establish position in the post for scoring and rebounding. Now that he's lost alot of that weight, there's going to be an adjustment period.

He didn't look "Elson" skinny, but he looked to be in pretty good shape to me.

[AFBlue]

Bynum is being trained by Jabbar. while Yao by former Knick Ewing.

who's training Jackie Butler? May i ask who, Mr. Holt?

i wish DRob a once DPOY could help train Butler too!

Tapes of Moses Malone

[silk]

i don't say the guy is a bust nor a future hall of famer i will just note his performance last night in 10 minutes. And i think we all can see why oberto bonner horry and elson are ahead of him in the rotation. All of these guys rebound better and rebounding is our problem and butler in what he showed showed no sign he could help..he's really slow and doesn't hustle..his bb iq seems also very low..but i guess he's a project and next year he will progress..but still i think we should stop the free jackie butler threads...

[Pop OFits]

Agreed. He looked timid, which is no suprise because he hasn't been in many game situations in this system. No matter how much practice this guy gets, he'll need to get his feet wet in real game situations before he's comfortable.

Positives:

- Looked comfortable once he got the ball in the post (nice kickout to the open player on the elbow)

- Aggressive on defense (had two good shot block attempts)

Negatives:

- Did seem a bit lost on switches and didn't know his opposing player (Nachbar is a shooter, not slasher)

- Was aggressive on the boards, but rarely found himself in position

Bottom Line: He's got some work to do, but he's far from "garbage"

In fairness, the Nets went small when Butler was in there with Timmy and then with Oberto. The Nets cut the lead to 14 after Nachbar hit that corner jumper on Butler. However, Pop called time, looked at his coaches and (reading his lips) said "let's go small". Pop left Jackie in there to match with the Nets' Big (Boone) and replaced Oberto with Jacque Vaughn, plus Beno, Fin and Brent. The crowd even started yelling defense because of the mini-comeback, however Pop leaving Butler in with that cast was obviously intended for developmental purposes and not garbage.

[MI21]

http://www.rockfanshop.com/shop/watermarked/luisposter/4786.jpg

Here is Jackie Butler (pictured with Damon Jones) from last year when he was on the Knicks.

One of the very few times something on the Internet has actually made me laugh out loud :lol

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

He's not going to play this year, he's on the Stephen Jackson plan.



are the Spurs really looking to bring back SJAX?




please God let this happen

[AFBlue]

are the Spurs really looking to bring back SJAX?




please God let this happen

The "Stephen Jackson Plan" is referring to a method of development. S-Jax rode the pine for a year before he got serious consideration for minutes and a spot in the rotation.

Similarly, Jackie Butler (and James White as well) will probably play very sparingly, if at all, this season, and will get their opportunity in Summer League and training camp to prove they deserve some minutes and/or a spot in the rotation.

[Man In Black]

Hell SJax rode the pine wearing civilians for practically a whole year before he got some run...it was the year after that, when Manu came in, is where he started to make those rainbow 3's that we miss time to time.

[wildbill2u]

In all fairness, last year Butler was a very impressive scorer. I haven't seen it this year, but he really had a knack for converting around the hoop.
I know the Knicks weren't as good a team last year as the Spurs are but how or why did L. Brown (who basically hates rookies and inexperienced players) find the minutes to put him on the Court?

[MrChug]

I HAVE WATCHED EVERY ONE OF THE 37 minutes he's played in a Spurs uni. He's out of sorts on both ends of the court...and my point is that's FINE if he's new to the team. I'd EXPECT Melvin Ely to be out of sorts his first 37 minutes on the team IF he hadnt had time to study/practice with the team...
...IT'S FEBRUARY. He has no excuse to not know where to be in the defensive rotations by now. Or AT WORST not just be standing in the paint looking at the other 9 players on the floor. He seems like a loss.

[nkdlunch]

Let me fill in for Sequ: "Butler Blows"

[Solid D]

Box scores from NYK games versus the Spurs last season. Butler was pretty decent in the game in NY but he was really quite good in the one in SA (I witnessed that game first hand).

http://www.nba.com/games/20051221/SASNYK/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20060227/NYKSAS/boxscore.html

[objective]

Box scores from NYK games versus the Spurs last season. Butler was pretty decent in the game in NY but he was really quite good in the one in SA (I witnessed that game first hand).

http://www.nba.com/games/20051221/SASNYK/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20060227/NYKSAS/boxscore.html

I still have both games on tape and watched them a lot when the Spurs signed him to an offer sheet.

I didn't like what I saw in those games and thus didn't favor his signing (still better than Oberto though). He was beat up and down the court by Oberto pretty badly, which is hard to do. And he had very little lift and just seemed to be a garbage-bucket getting guy.

But after watching the tape of last night's game I think he's made some good progress this year. He was definitely lighter and moved quicker, though he still has the running gait of a fatman. He contested shots that came to the lane (a breath of fresh air, lol), helped baseline when guys were funneled there, put a body on guys to box out, passed servicably . . . the only thing he didn't do was knock down his shots. All that while having to perform in the helter-skelter environment of a benchclearing blowout where both teams play sloppy or out of their normal play.

I'd still rather see Butler get force-fed minutes than watch Oberto do his routine.

[Ocotillo]

Hopefully Butler is in the weight room when he isn't on the practice floor. I don't know what the guy's work ethic is but with his body type if he would get serious in the weight room and work on his defense with the assistants, he would always have a place on the Spurs while Pop is here.

[milkyway21]

Bynum is being trained by Jabbar. while Yao by former Knick Ewing.

who's training Jackie Butler? May i ask who, Mr. Holt?
i wish DRob a once DPOY could help train Butler too!





Tim Duncan? seriously? he's taking some of Tim's extra time that's supposed to be for Amy & Sydney? :D


Cadillac Anderson? Cadillac, who? (head-scratching:lol)



Tapes of Moses Malone
:wtf what if the guy's got some questions that need to be answered? :lol

[T Park]

what if the guy's got some questions that need to be answered

Then Pop, Chip, PJ, Duncan, will all answer em.

The dudes got Duncan, and a good set of assistants to help out.

[ChumpDumper]

I wouldn't mind bringing in Dave Cowens again.

[whottt]

i wish DRob a once DPOY could help train Butler too!




What Drob did(freakish athleticism, speed and quickness) can't be taught...

However, we could get the guy who tutored Hakeem a little bit...Moses Malone. If he was available back then when he was playing...he should be available now.

And Pop sees Butler as a Moses Malone type player.

[MannyIsGod]

I wouldn't mind bringing in Dave Cowens again.He's with another team; I think it might be Orlando.

[MannyIsGod]

N/M, it is the Pistons he's currently with.

[ShoogarBear]

What Drob did(freakish athleticism, speed and quickness) can't be taught...

However, we could get the guy who tutored Hakeem a little bit...Moses Malone. If he was available back then when he was playing...he should be available now.

And Pop sees Butler as a Moses Malone type player.You guys probably didn't have the pleasure of listening to the Nets' feed. Marv mentioned that the Spurs had given Butler a DVD of Malone to study and Marc Jackson for some reason was incredulous that a team would give a pro player tapes of another one to emulate.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Well one thing's for sure, the guy looks like Grizzley Addams, so he'll probably average more hard fouls per game than oberto does for the season.

[timvp]

You guys probably didn't have the pleasure of listening to the Nets' feed. Marv mentioned that the Spurs had given Butler a DVD of Malone to study and Marc Jackson for some reason was incredulous that a team would give a pro player tapes of another one to emulate.
Maybe the problem with Beno is the Spurs gave him a tape of Marc Jackson's eating habits.

[ShoogarBear]

Maybe the problem with Beno is the Spurs gave him a tape of Marc Jackson's eating habits.Oh, you just reminded me. They also played a short clip of Bruce Bowen.

They asked him how he used to defend MarK (we spelled it wrong) Jackson and he said "It was pretty easy, I would stand there with a box of doughnuts in one hand and cupcakes in the other."

:rollin

[timvp]

Oh, you just reminded me. They also played a short clip of Bruce Bowen.

They asked him how he used to defend MarK (we spelled it wrong) Jackson and he said "It was pretty easy, I would stand there with a box of doughnuts in one hand and cupcakes in the other."

:rollin

:lol

To our credit, our posts made sense about both Marc and Mark.

[milkyway21]

Maybe the problem with Beno is the Spurs gave him a tape of Marc Jackson's eating habits.:nope

:lol poor Beno.