All-Star break will crank up the trade-rumor mill (Maggette related and more) [Archive]

Kori Ellis

02-14-2007, 03:19 AM

Mike Monroe: All-Star break will crank up the trade-rumor mill

Web Posted: 02/14/2007 12:03 AM CST

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/mmonroe/stories/MYSA021407.07C.COL.BKNmonroe.trades.1fe127d.html

San Antonio Express-News

Every mover and shaker in the NBA will be in Las Vegas this weekend, and the trade deadline is one week from Thursday.

You know what that means: Trade Rumor Central.
Let's start some of our own, with the understanding each is based on kernels of truth that came from some of our best inside-the-NBA sources.

It's going to be an upset if the Clippers trade Corey Maggette, who has been on the trade rumor merry-go-round for weeks.

This is not because the team's basketball staff doesn't want to get rid of him or that Maggette wants to stay in L.A. On the contrary, the team's coaches want him gone, and his agent, Rob Pelinka, has asked for and been given permission to talk with other teams about potential deals.

The team's coaches believe Maggette is responsible for having single-handedly ruined team chemistry, separating himself from teammates to the point he sits at a table by himself when the coaches have a breakfast meeting on road trips in lieu of a morning shootaround. Maggette has had two reported confrontations with head coach Mike Dunleavy during, or after, games this season. While Dunleavy has taken the "high road" in discussing the incidents, don't doubt he would be much happier if Maggette were gone.

Why, then, is Maggette still with the Clippers? Ask Donald T. Sterling. He owns the team, and Maggette, we're told, is his favorite player. Sterling has nixed several possible deals already and has made it clear to Dunleavy and general manager Elgin Baylor they are not to do a Maggette trade he does not approve.

If you're wondering why Maggette started in Elton Brand's stead in the Clippers' game at Detroit on Monday night, it was because that game, unlike the team's previous game in Indianapolis, was televised back in Los Angeles. The coaches were hoping Sterling would see enough of Maggette's uninspired (and uninspiring) play to perhaps lift his embargo on a deal. Maggette didn't disappoint, missing seven of 10 shots in a blowout loss.

Though the Warriors already pulled off the biggest trade of the season — Mike Dunleavy, Jr., Ike Diogu, Troy Murphy and Keith McLeod to the Pacers for Al Harrington, Sarunas Jasikevicius, Stephen Jackson and Josh Powell — Don Nelson is said to be itching for one more pre-deadline deal. Expect Mickael Pietrus to be dangled but only if GM Chris Mullin can get value in return. Pietrus intrigues a lot of teams, but when Jason Richardson is fully healthy, there won't be a lot of playing time for him.

Cavaliers GM Danny Ferry will be actively seeking a deal. His team is close enough to first place in the East to believe top seed in the Eastern playoffs is possible. Trouble is, the one asset he has that other teams most often ask about, forward Anderson Varejao, makes only $950,000. There aren't many players out there making that little money who could provide the same sort of value.

Portland will work hard to move center Jamaal Magloire, but the Blazers are looking for expiring contracts and draft picks. They had even contacted the Spurs about Magloire, with an eye on Eric Williams' expiring $4.3 million deal. Tuesday's Spurs-Bobcats trade means that won't happen, but the Blazers will continue to shop around.

Though he is the most talented player who clearly is available, it doesn't seem as if Pau Gasol is going anywhere. Ordinarily, players who ask to be traded diminish their value, but the Grizzlies aren't going to give away a big man with the skills Gasol owns. The Bulls want him, but the price — a package that likely would include Luol Deng, Andres Nocioni and P.J. Brown — seems prohibitive.

ChumpDumper

02-14-2007, 03:21 AM

If you're wondering why Maggette started in Elton Brand's stead in the Clippers' game at Detroit on Monday night, it was because that game, unlike the team's previous game in Indianapolis, was televised back in Los Angeles.I knew Sterling was cheap, but no League Pass?

NuGGeTs-FaN

02-14-2007, 03:28 AM

Pietrus would be good for the Spurs but bad for the rest of the west :lol

Mr. Body

02-14-2007, 03:37 AM

Weird bit of character assassination on Maggette. By most accounts his teammates love him and this sounds like classic behavior by a player who feels he has no role with a team anymore.

Bruno

02-14-2007, 05:37 AM

I knew Sterling was cheap, but no League Pass?

:lmao

freemeat

02-14-2007, 06:37 AM

I love the Ely trade...if we could get Mag for, say Beno, Oberto (since Ely's in the mix now) and a draft pick or cash, pull that trigger! Unfortunately, those salaries don't match. If the Spurs want Mag, they have to sacrifice Beno and Barry.

While Barry has been hot from the 3-point range, he's on the down-side of a brilliant career. I think his current FG% raises his value, but not quite as high as what he's still owed...

With Ely and Mag in the mix, this team could make some noise. I already think they'll be up to the challenge when the playoffs start (as is now), but this could really be something special should the Spurs make another trade...after all, last time the Spurs made a regular season trade, we all know what happened.

Barkley said, "Isaiah Thomas is building a championship team...only problem is it's in San Antonio."

Slinkyman

02-14-2007, 06:46 AM

Forget maggette, if we can get Mickael Pietrus that would be something else.

AFBlue

02-14-2007, 07:22 AM

Pietrus will probably be dangled with Foyle's huge contract attached, making many deals impossible.

Pietrus makes too little money, and unless it's a "prospect for prospect" deal another one of the contracts will likely have to come with Pietrus. Since the other long-term contracts are legitimate (Jack's 4yr, Harrington's 3yr, Baron's 3yr, Richardson's 5yr), I doubt they will trade two players of value unless they get something serious in return.

TDMVPDPOY

02-14-2007, 07:22 AM

if the spurs get either one

then the notion of rich gets richer is real

exstatic

02-14-2007, 08:49 AM

AFBlue

02-14-2007, 09:19 AM

If Maggette were currently wearing Silver and Black, Spur fan would be complaining about him and looking to ship him out, but I guess the grass is truly greener. He is the Beno of shooting guards, fat, can't shoot, and always has some kind of owie keeping him on the bench.

I understand what you're saying...

It's kind of like having a new g/f. You tend to ignore some of the things you find wrong with them initially, but as time goes on those "quirks" magnify and you begin to understand how this heartless bitch was single in the first place.... (my Valentine Story of the Day)

Similarly, I think the fans look at Maggette as the "savior" and see the positives without taking note of the negatives...

Positives:

- He is aggressive on offense and has a knack for creating contact and getting to the foul line

- Once he gets to the foul line, he converts over 80% of attempts

- He is a good rebounder for his size and position

- He has an excellent combonation of speed and size, enabling him to guard three spots on the floor (2/3/4)

Negatives:

- He often appears apathetic on the court, especially on defense

- He is injury prone, even if it is only nagging injuries

- He has earned somewhat of a selfish reputation, and his run-ins w/ management have been well chronicled

Bottom Line: Maggette does have faults and would not be the "perfect" addition to this team. BUT, if he didn't have faults, he wouldn't be on the market. While he's not a "perfect" fit, he would vastly improve this team's overall scoring ability.

IMO, the benefits outweigh the risks...

T Park

02-14-2007, 09:52 AM

He is the Beno of shooting guards, fat, can't shoot, and always has some kind of owie keeping him on the bench.

god i know you dont like the guy but give me a break....

VaSpursFan

02-14-2007, 10:07 AM

JPB

02-14-2007, 10:10 AM

I'd take Pietrus over Magette, without hesitation.

Mr. Body

02-14-2007, 10:14 AM

MoSpur

02-14-2007, 10:15 AM

Maggette? Fat? Uh...I don't think you have the right Maggette.

td4mvp21

02-14-2007, 10:23 AM

I'd rather have Pietrus, but I don't think either players are possible for the Spurs right now. Maggette is more possible than Pietrus.

AFBlue

02-14-2007, 10:29 AM

I'd rather have Pietrus, but I don't think either players are possible for the Spurs right now. Maggette is more possible than Pietrus.

You're right, and that's what is nuts...

A guy like Maggette who averages 15pts 5rebs over an eight year career that saw him eclipse the 20ppg average twice is more likely to be had than a guy (Pietrus) who has been a gross dissapointment in his 4 year career and has just this year begun to turn in semi-consistent performance....crazy :dizzy

Bruno

02-14-2007, 10:31 AM

Maggette >>>>>>>>>>> Pietrus

VaSpursFan

02-14-2007, 10:31 AM

Maggette >>>>>>>>>>> Pietrus

agree

AFBlue

02-14-2007, 10:32 AM

Maggette? Fat? Uh...I don't think you have the right Maggette.

Maggette needs to lose weight like Dolly Parton needs another boob job....

AFBlue

02-14-2007, 10:38 AM

That's pretty spot-on about Maggette. His rebounding and ability to get to the line are phenomenal but at all other stats he's lousy -- no defense, no team defense, plus bad injury histories and a need to start and play solid minutes.

I think it's important to look at both the postives and the negatives, but IMO he makes this team so much better that the benefit outweighs the cost.

i think a change of environment and a winning program will go a long way in changing corey's attitude.

His attitude may change, but I think it would be overly optomistic to assume he would change his whole personality to being this "team guy" that does all the "little things" like help defense, etc.

T Park

02-14-2007, 10:40 AM

yavozerb

02-14-2007, 10:45 AM

AFBlue

02-14-2007, 11:12 AM

I prefer Pietrus for the following reasons: 3 years younger (27 & 24), makes 5 million less a year, and hs more possibility to re-sign with the spurs..Pietrus does not have the offense of maggette, but is a better defender, and equally effective rebounder. If some of you are looking to replace bowens position, then this is your guy!!

Pietrus may be making $5M less right now, but he is having what GMs will term a "breakout" season and will be a restricted FA this summer. I'm not saying he'll get $7M+ per year, but he could probably garner a full MLE deal (Marcus Banks did after a similar breakout) and I don't know that the Spurs would be willing to match while seeing less than half a season of him in a Spurs uni.

AFBlue

02-14-2007, 11:17 AM

Amazing how he was like that last year when the Clippers were a winning team.

This guy can also shoot in clutch situations.

Ive watched many a games this guy bag a three to win against Miami and other teams.

Get the deal done. :tu

Hate to rain on your Maggette-love Parade, but he only played in 32 games last season, spending most of his time in street clothes with injury. I'm not trying to say he is a horrible guy, just that it's unrealistic to change his personality....the guy wants minutes and tends to be apathetic on defense, winning MIGHT change that, but I wouldn't hold my breath...

sprrs

02-14-2007, 11:57 AM

Getting Pietrus would be awesome, but I doubt it would happen.

regio

02-14-2007, 12:11 PM

I understand what you're saying...

It's kind of like having a new g/f. You tend to ignore some of the things you find wrong with them initially, but as time goes on those "quirks" magnify and you begin to understand how this heartless bitch was single in the first place.... (my Valentine Story of the Day)
:lol funny analogy

wildbill2u

02-14-2007, 01:01 PM

Pietrus may be making $5M less right now, but he is having what GMs will term a "breakout" season and will be a restricted FA this summer. I'm not saying he'll get $7M+ per year, but he could probably garner a full MLE deal (Marcus Banks did after a similar breakout) and I don't know that the Spurs would be willing to match while seeing less than half a season of him in a Spurs uni.
Looking at his season, I don't see how we could persuade them to trade him but maybe he IS on the block.

Even if we weren't sold on him remaining with the Spurs because of salary and he left for greener pastures, wouldn't this help for this year? This would put us in no worse position than we are now with having to find a roster spot open at SF that we have needed to fill anyway?

I don't know about how the trade rules work, but (in our dreams) could we trade our low-salaried Beno for Pietrus?

How could we be worse off if we were able to trade for him?

MrChug

02-14-2007, 02:10 PM

I'd take Pietrus over Magette, without hesitation.

I second that.

JPB

02-14-2007, 02:56 PM

Maggette >>>>>>>>>>> Pietrus

Today maybe, but tomorrow...

AFBlue

02-14-2007, 03:20 PM

Today maybe, but tomorrow...

The Spurs need help with scoring and rebounding today....tomorrow is another issue.

AFBlue

02-14-2007, 03:24 PM

Looking at his season, I don't see how we could persuade them to trade him but maybe he IS on the block.

Even if we weren't sold on him remaining with the Spurs because of salary and he left for greener pastures, wouldn't this help for this year? This would put us in no worse position than we are now with having to find a roster spot open at SF that we have needed to fill anyway?

I don't know about how the trade rules work, but (in our dreams) could we trade our low-salaried Beno for Pietrus?

How could we be worse off if we were able to trade for him?

Hey, don't get me wrong...I would love to have Pietrus for the future, but he wouldn't be much help this year (a rotation spot currently held by Barry & Finley would have to be freed up), and there's no guarantee that he'd stick. Meanwhile, the Spurs would probably have to give up Butler + Beno and maybe even a first rounder....

Is that worth the risk?

Bruno

02-14-2007, 03:49 PM

The Spurs need help with scoring and rebounding today....tomorrow is another issue.

Yes and I don't find that Pietrus upside is high : he is still 25 years old and I wonder if this year improvement isn't mainly due to Nelson up tempo style.

AFBlue

02-14-2007, 03:56 PM

Yes and I don't find that Pietrus upside is high : he is still 25 years old and I wonder if this year improvement isn't mainly due to Nelson up tempo style.

Or to the fact that he might get a new contract this off-season. Either way, he's a higher risk than Maggette, who at least is proven over an extended period of time.

exstatic

02-14-2007, 07:40 PM

god i know you dont like the guy but give me a break....
Back in the day, when it was the injured list and you had to stay on for 5 games, Maggette went on because of a pedicure gone wrong. Yes, a pedicure. Doc Rivers hated him in Orlando and they shipped him out. Dunleavy apparently hates him now, and THEY'RE trying to ship him out. Do you see a pattern here? All he can do is drive the lane and draw his man into Tim's operatin area. His 3 point shooting blows. His defense blows. His attitude blows. He's like a low grade Bonzi Wells.

SilverSpur

02-14-2007, 08:30 PM

[QUOTE=VaSpursFan]c. magg fat??? WTF??? you can hate on him be that dood is in great freaking shape.

i think a change of environment and a winning program will go a long way in changing corey's attitude.[/QUOTE
I totally agree. If brought to San Antonio he would be alot happier. We all know he can play. So the things that we are seeing wrong with him like attitude and behavior towards management and his coaching staff would go away, leaving us with a very content player. Make the trade, send Beno and Berry and lets go to the Finals.

T Park

02-14-2007, 08:33 PM

SenorSpur

02-14-2007, 08:41 PM

Back in the day, when it was the injured list and you had to stay on for 5 games, Maggette went on because of a pedicure gone wrong. Yes, a pedicure. Doc Rivers hated him in Orlando and they shipped him out. Dunleavy apparently hates him now, and THEY'RE trying to ship him out. Do you see a pattern here? All he can do is drive the lane and draw his man into Tim's operatin area. His 3 point shooting blows. His defense blows. His attitude blows. He's like a low grade Bonzi Wells.

You're forgetting his rebounding prowess, 80+% FT shooting, and ability to score. Plus dude is younger, quicker and extremely more athletic. His versatility and ability to breakdown a defense alone makes him worth the risk.

It's not like Finley and Barry don't "blow" by themselves.

Shit, I'd take Maggette, plug him in and call it a season.

If they can't get him, the next targets should be either Gerald Wallace or Mickael Pietrus.

exstatic

02-14-2007, 08:54 PM

So you don't buy into his shooting coach not working with him?

Winning enviroments make a big difference...
Not always, in fact, not often. Reclamation projects who make big money deals have little motivation to listen. Why should he? He gets paid big for two more years no matter what happens.

Ninja-Defense

02-14-2007, 10:54 PM

You're forgetting his rebounding prowess, 80+% FT shooting, and ability to score. Plus dude is younger, quicker and extremely more athletic. His versatility and ability to breakdown a defense alone makes him worth the risk.

It's not like Finley and Barry don't "blow" by themselves.

Shit, I'd take Maggette, plug him in and call it a season.

If they can't get him, the next targets should be either Gerald Wallace or Mickael Pietrus.

Oh, man--Wallace would be a great addition for us! But he's been Charlotte's
go-to guy as of late so he's probably not available for our scraps!!

Bruno

02-15-2007, 06:10 AM

Maggette has been quite bad lately : 10.2 ppg with a 29.6FG% in february.
One thing is sure: his trade value isn't raising. ;)

Dave McNulla

02-15-2007, 09:53 AM

I knew Sterling was cheap, but no League Pass?
clippers games don't get shown in so-cal, even the away games. exception is nationally televised games, like tnt. FSW II is the only channel that can show them.

mountainballer

02-15-2007, 09:59 AM

Shit, I'd take Maggette, plug him in and call it a season.

If they can't get him, the next targets should be either Gerald Wallace or Mickael Pietrus.

if there was the slightest chance to land Gerald Wallace, I would say stop any tries to land Maggette and not make it plan B.
for the Spurs Wallace would be a 10 times (did I say 10.....hell 1000) better fit.
on offense they provide a compareable impact, but on defense Wallace is so much better. Wallace has the potential to become a defender like Bruce, but with offense.(ok, minus the 3pt shooting)
Wallace is younger and (most important) in term of work ethic and intangibles Wallace seems to be just the opposite of Maggette. (in other words: Spurs material).
I bet, Wallace would love to be a Spur. he would take the spot of Bruce next year and if he resigns, he could be the starting SF for the next 8 years.

Mr. Body

02-15-2007, 10:21 AM

If we were going to get Gerald Wallace, I'm sure he would have been part of a larger deal with Charlotte & they would have waited in the Ely deal.

AFBlue

02-15-2007, 11:02 AM

If we were going to get Gerald Wallace, I'm sure he would have been part of a larger deal with Charlotte & they would have waited in the Ely deal.

Agreed. Wallace is a pipe-dream. As is Nocioni.

Mr. Body

02-15-2007, 11:05 AM

I think Nocioni may be had in a S&T this summer. Maybe.

Darkwaters

02-15-2007, 11:08 AM

If we were going to get Gerald Wallace, I'm sure he would have been part of a larger deal with Charlotte & they would have waited in the Ely deal.

Agreed. I was thinking about that the other day. Why didn't the Spurs swing a bigger deal to nab Wallace? I'm sure they asked and were quickly rejected. Fact is that Adam Morrison has been sucking lately and Wallace is playing like a beast. While Morrison might be the future of their small forward position by popular opinion I think Wallace is starting his own campaign to the contrary.

One thing most people want out of this "small forward of the future" is a guy that is long and athletic but also somebody that can steal time at the 4. Wallace did so last year with the flurry of injuries to Emeka Okafor and Sean May. But he didn't like it one bit and really wants nothing to do with it again. Frankly, while I think Wallace is the ideal choice of any trade possibilities he might not be THAT kind of guy (your 3/4 kind of guy).

The Spurs should do their best to swing one of these three guys (Wallace, Maggette, Pietrus) and probably in that order (obviously depending on what it would take to get them). As far as I'm concerned Beno and either Barry of Finley are the most disposable "scraps". In a deal for Walace I'd send Butler too and quite possibly our first rounder.

During the offseason the Spurs need to seriously consider resigning Linton Johnson III though. The guy has been putting up some good numbers with the Hornets the last 2 years. Hes highly motivated to rebound, plays defense and best of all: he'll be extremely cheap. Linton had 12 and 4 last night in 19 mins against the Kings and played the predominance of his minutes at the PF position.

Imagine next season if the Spurs had Bowen/Wallace or Maggette or Pietrus/LJ III at their SF position? No more Finley at PF small ball. They'd be deep enough to avoid it and scary as it is, it's very probable and not a pipe dream.

AFBlue

02-15-2007, 11:09 AM

I think Nocioni may be had in a S&T this summer. Maybe.

To some team, yes, but what would the Spurs have to offer the Bulls?

You think a deal like a developmental center (Butler) and a 3pt specialist with an expiring contract (Barry) would be enough to get him?

Mr. Body

02-15-2007, 11:11 AM

To some team, yes, but what would the Spurs have to offer the Bulls?

You think a deal like a developmental center (Butler) and a 3pt specialist with an expiring contract (Barry) would be enough to get him?

I think Scola would be the centerpiece of the deal.

Darkwaters

02-15-2007, 11:31 AM

Are we pretty sure that Nocioni is going to walk away from the Bulls at the end of the season?

Mr. Body

02-15-2007, 11:32 AM

No, not at all.

AFBlue

02-15-2007, 11:37 AM

Are we pretty sure that Nocioni is going to walk away from the Bulls at the end of the season?

He's a "restricted" free agent, and the Bulls have the opportunity to match any offer he receives, so it's not a given that he's going anywhere. HOWEVER....

The Bulls, for now, have a star at that position in Luol Deng, used the second pick of last year's draft on another PF/SF type in Ty Thomas, paid out alot of money to Ben Wallace, and have to look long-term at the extensions they will grant to some of their players (Deng, Gordon, etc.). If some players choose to re-up with their respective teams in FA this year, Nocioni could conceivably get a $7-9M per year deal. That's alot of cheese for a franchise that looks like it's heading in another direction....

It's not a guarantee that he leaves, but it's possible.

ArgSpursFan

02-15-2007, 11:42 AM

He's a "restricted" free agent, and the Bulls have the opportunity to match any offer he receives, so it's not a given that he's going anywhere. HOWEVER....

The Bulls, for now, have a star at that position in Luol Deng, used the second pick of last year's draft on another PF/SF type in Ty Thomas, paid out alot of money to Ben Wallace, and have to look long-term at the extensions they will grant to some of their players (Deng, Gordon, etc.). If some players choose to re-up with their respective teams in FA this year, Nocioni could conceivably get a $7-9M per year deal. That's alot of cheese for a franchise that looks like it's heading in another direction....

It's not a guarantee that he leaves, but it's possible.

If he gets an offer from a solid team(like the spurs,mavs,Miami,lakers,suns)+knowing that He may not be in the starting 5 next year either,He´ll walk away from the bulls.

Mr. Body

02-15-2007, 11:49 AM

There are not a lot of teams with more money than the MLE this summer, with Gerald Wallace, Vince Carter, and other more pricey options than Nocioni potentially on the market, so I don't think Chapu could command more than the simple full MLE on the open market/Chicago letting him set his price. I could see Chicago working with someone for a S&T, perhaps for somewhat more than the MLE, to get players in return. Nocioni would obviously be a good fit for the Spurs. Already savvy and veteran, he can play SF but can easily play PF for small ball sets.

mountainballer

02-15-2007, 12:26 PM

Are we pretty sure that Nocioni is going to walk away from the Bulls at the end of the season?

I guess it is just the opposite. and it is still not out of any possibilities, that Deng is the centerpiece of a trade for Gasol.
then it would be even more attracting for Nocioni to play for a Bulls team, that will be a contender for years to come.
(if it is Hinrich-Gordon-Nocioni-Gasol-Wallace)
If the Bulls don't try to lowball him with his new contract, I'm sure he would love to stay in Chicago.

Bruno

02-15-2007, 12:27 PM

Nocioni, Wallace ....
What's next ? Beno+Barrry+Rights to Scola for Lebron James ?

Mr. Body

02-15-2007, 12:31 PM

Nocioni, Wallace ....
What's next ? Beno+Barrry+Rights to Scola for Lebron James ?

Don't be stupid. We're talking Nocioni this summer, who may distinctly be available.

Bruno

02-15-2007, 12:41 PM

Don't be stupid.

:cry :cry :cry

We're talking Nocioni this summer, who may distinctly be available.

Do you realize that it's highly unlikely ?

mountainballer

02-15-2007, 12:42 PM

Nocioni, Wallace ....
What's next ? Beno+Barrry+Rights to Scola for Lebron James ?

hm. why?
Wallace can opt out and be an unrestricted FA this summer.
will he get offers higher than MLE?
probably, but for sure no max. offers.
and why not a S&T with the Spurs? when talking S&T it needs some kind of agreement between the player and the new team in the first place. Spurs can't offer the Bobcats much, but a package, that is better than nothing. (think Butler+Beno+Oberto+pick?)
Bobcats have done quite well with picking underachievers in the past (Wallace, Brezec), they might give Butler and Beno also a try. they will need another center if Brezec leaves. (if they don't win Oden or Noah of course)

what if Wallace doesn't opt out and becomes a FA 2008? didn't we talk so much about the Spurs plan 2008 and being under the cap for 10 million?
could he be a target for a contract that starts at, let's say 7 million? why not.

all in all I wouldn't say that Wallace is out of the Spurs reach, if they decide that they really want him and not think they can get him for half MLE.

Darkwaters

02-15-2007, 12:49 PM

Nocioni, Wallace ....
What's next ? Beno+Barrry+Rights to Scola for Lebron James ?

He has been slumping this year. Maybe it's time to buy him low!

:downspin:

Bruno

02-15-2007, 12:55 PM

hm. why?

Because Wallace will likely opt out this summer and if he doesn't re-sign with Charlotte or as a FA with a team under the cap, Bobcats will get better offers than some below average prospects and a late first round pick.

After you can always create unlikely scenarios like Wallace saying that he wants only play with SA this summer...

Mr. Body

02-15-2007, 03:45 PM

:cry :cry :cry

Do you realize that it's highly unlikely ?

I wouldn't place it as 'highly' unlikely or laughable, as some have suggested. Chicago has to be a happy destination for Scola. Is he worth Nocioni alone? Of course not. But room for Noce is dwindling there somewhat, barring a trade in the meantime.

timvp

02-15-2007, 03:50 PM

There is zero chance that Nocioni or Wallace end up as Spurs next season unless the Spurs end up trading one of their big three.

AFBlue

02-15-2007, 03:55 PM

mountainballer

02-16-2007, 05:29 AM

Because Wallace will likely opt out this summer and if he doesn't re-sign with Charlotte or as a FA with a team under the cap, Bobcats will get better offers than some below average prospects and a late first round pick.

After you can always create unlikely scenarios like Wallace saying that he wants only play with SA this summer...

common, I guess you can't blame me to babble about completly unreasonable scenarios in the past.
and I didn't claim that a S&T for Wallace is easy to finalize.
you just can't put a S&T on the same level like a trade!

would the Pacers have traded Brad Miller for Scott Pollard in 2003?
no they wouldn't. as a sign and trade it worked, because Miller and Kings agreed in the first place. (Kings were far over the cap and wouldn't have had any chance to land Miller as a FA)

would the Warriors have traded Dampier for Najera, Laettner and (late 1st round) picks back in 2004 (when he was much courted)? no!

would the Hawks have traded Harrington just for a trade exeption and a (non lottery) 1st rounder? also no!

of course a team like the Bobcats would want to trade with another team, that could offer more than the Spurs. but if the player and the potential new team find an agreement, it is possible. especiall since some cash can also be included.
the numbers can be combined easily since the Spurs will have either expiring contracts (2008 expiring) and the Horry contract, that can be used to make the numbers work, but the other team doesn't need to pay Horry if he retires, because the contract isn't guarranteed. (corret me if I I'm wrong on this)

so think of a scenario like this:
Wallace signs a contract better than MLE, guess 5 years, starting at 6.5 million, (would make a decent 40 million contract overall) he had agreed with the Spurs before. (guess that is a fair offer, can't see other teams offer him that much more, especially not the Bobcats)

Spurs give the Bobcats a package like this:
Horry (who retires), Butler, Mahinmi or Scola rights (whatever they prefer), a future 1st rounder, cash.
I know that this isn't breathtaking, but it also isn't something to sneeze about, especiall for a team like the Bobcats, who are always in the hunt for relatively cheap contracts to fill up the roster.

again. not easy to get done and the chance might be 10%.
but please don't call this completly unreasonable, because then some other S&Ts of the past also would have never happened.

Bruno

02-16-2007, 07:03 AM

I know that a S&T for a UFA isn't the same thing than a trade but you forget a lot of things.

First, if Charlotte thinks that there are no chances that Wallace re-signs with them or if they aren't ready to give him a big salary, they will likely trade him before the deadline. Spurs won't be able to get him in a trade before the deadline because other teams will have best offers available.

Second, if he is still with Charlotte and doesn't want to re-sign with them, he can sign with a team under the cap without a S&T.

Third, if he can't find a team under the cap ready that he likes and ready to give him a big contract, he will work on a S&T. The team that will get him will either overpay him (like for Dampier), be a team that Wallace really like (like for Harrington) or offer the best package to Charlotte.

All in all, if Spurs want to getWallace they will need that :
- Wallace isn't traded at the dealine.
- Wallace doesn't re-sign with Charlotte.
- No team under the cap interested in Wallace.
- Spurs is the most attractive team in the league for Wallace and it will happen only if Holt overpays for Wallace (:lmao) or if Wallace is a Spurs' fan.

Maybe chances that a S&T happen with Wallace is 10% (there are maybe 1 or 2 S&T with an UFA each year) but a S&T with San Antonio should be around 0.5%.

I'm sorry to break your dream but your scenario is highly unlikely.

mountainballer

02-16-2007, 08:12 AM

Second, if he is still with Charlotte and doesn't want to re-sign with them, he can sign with a team under the cap without a S&T.

this was the start of all my thoughts.
the teams, that will be able to offer better than MLE contracts will be:
Bobcats (assuming he doesn't want to resign)
Hawks (Childress, Williams, Smith)
Grizzlies (Gay, Miller, Warrick)
Bucks (Simmons,
Magic (Ariza, Hedo)
(if there isn't a team, that makes a big salary dumping move at deadline)

none of this teams will throw their money at an athletic SF like Wallace, since all of them have this type of player and/or are 2 player deep at SF.

that's why I said I don't see Wallace get those big offers.

or if Wallace is a Spurs' fan.

ok, let's try this way.
why not?
the Spurs could offer something few other teams can right now. they are a top team, for at least 3 more seasons with an open slot for years to fill.
they are probably the only one of the contender teams, that does have this role to offer, since other top teams like Mavs (Howard), Suns (Marion, Diaw, Jones), Jazz (AK47, Harpring), Rockets (Battier, T-mac), Nuggets (Melo), Lakers (Walton, Radmanovic) Wizards (Butler), Bulls (Deng, Nocioni), Pacers (granger, Dunleavy), Pistons (Prince), Cavs (Lebron) have a long term solution at the SF spot.
the Spurs are the ONLY (yes, in fact the only) top team in the league, that can offer such a big role for Wallace right now. why should a player like Wallace, who's qualities would nowhere be as wellcomed as they would be in SA, NOT be a Spurs fan? (better: be a fan of the idea to play for the Spurs)

AFBlue

02-16-2007, 08:46 AM

so think of a scenario like this:
Wallace signs a contract better than MLE, guess 5 years, starting at 6.5 million, (would make a decent 40 million contract overall) he had agreed with the Spurs before. (guess that is a fair offer, can't see other teams offer him that much more, especially not the Bobcats)

Spurs give the Bobcats a package like this:
Horry (who retires), Butler, Mahinmi or Scola rights (whatever they prefer), a future 1st rounder, cash.
I know that this isn't breathtaking, but it also isn't something to sneeze about, especiall for a team like the Bobcats, who are always in the hunt for relatively cheap contracts to fill up the roster.

The Atlanta Hawks and Charlotte Bobcats have one thing in common that works to your point...they're penny-pinching idiots. That means it's possible for them to look to a S&T to get more cheap prospects and expiring contracts.

The one thing I'd change about your Scenario is Horry...his contract expires at the end of this year and you can't trade assets you don't own. Instead, trade Barry, who will be making about $6M and entering the last year of his contract. Barry would give them a shooter to supplement Carroll and an expiring contract for the next year when they begin negotiations on extensions...

Then throw in a young prospect (probably Butler) and a pick, then call it a day....

EDIT: Sorry I misspoke on Horry's contract expiring. So if he retires post-trade, is his salary still counted against Charlotte for the salary cap? If not, then it makes sense for them to do it with Horry, but Barry gives them a future expiring contract AND some shooting ability.

Bruno

02-16-2007, 09:14 AM

none of this teams will throw their money at an athletic SF like Wallace, since all of them have this type of player and/or are 2 player deep at SF.

I can see Milwaukee making a run for Wallace and you should realize that you are on the most unlikley scenario. if Charlotte feel that Walalce won't re-sign, they will trade him at the deadline.

the Spurs are the ONLY (yes, in fact the only) top team in the league, that can offer such a big role for Wallace right now.

No, Mavs can offer him a big role : they can start Howard at SG like they have done lately by putting George in the starting lineup. And Cuban will likely offer a bigger contract than Spurs to Wallace. Miami can too be interested. There are too other teams that aren't real contenders but can be interested in him.

Bruno

02-16-2007, 09:16 AM

Sorry I misspoke on Horry's contract expiring. So if he retires post-trade, is his salary still counted against Charlotte for the salary cap?

Horry last year of contract is partially guaranteed. If he retires, he will received only a part of his salary (less than 50%).

mountainballer

02-16-2007, 09:53 AM

No, Mavs can offer him a big role : they can start Howard at SG like they have done lately by putting George in the starting lineup. And Cuban will likely offer a bigger contract than Spurs to Wallace. Miami can too be interested. There are too other teams that aren't real contenders but can be interested in him.

Mavs would duplicate what they have in Josh Howard. not that this wasn't a good thing, but they can improve their team more, if they invest in other positions. (question will be, if they resign Stack though.)

Miami has a Wallace in the making in Dorell Wright. well, maybe if they think that Wright still needs two more years, but their window is closing fast, it could make sense, if they use Wright as the teaser in a S&T offer and prefer an immediat contributer. Wright would look better for the Bobcats, than what the Spurs can offer.

mountainballer

02-16-2007, 10:16 AM

EDIT: Sorry I misspoke on Horry's contract expiring. So if he retires post-trade, is his salary still counted against Charlotte for the salary cap? If not, then it makes sense for them to do it with Horry, but Barry gives them a future expiring contract AND some shooting ability.

that's why I mentioned the money. Horry would be there to make the numbers work, but wouldn't cost the Bobcats anything. the guarranteed part of Horry's contract is covered by the Spurs money.
so the Bobcats would get 3 players back. I think they would prefer the Mahinmi rights, they are much less of a risk for them and would guarrantee another cheap player for 4 years. (if I can chose, I would keep Scola anyhow)
Bobcats might not need Barry, if they resign Carroll they have the same kind of player in a 10 years younger version. (to be fair, the 10 years younger Barry was better, the 36 years old Barry is worse than Carroll)

about the Bobcats: they have 10 players under contract this summer, 3 have an opt out clause (Wallace and Brezec will likely use it), 2 are a team option (don't think that they use the one on Knight).
so they will likely need to get 6-8 new players or resign some of the expiring.
they will get another 2 via draft, maybe finally the big hit in Oden or Durant.
but as usual they will have to fill the roster with relativly cheap contracts, that makes the Spurs a bit more attractive, because Beno, Butler, Oberto, Mahinmi (rookie scale) and White more or less would meet that description.