Iran Suspends Uranium Program, Dan and Kofi Weep

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/14/iran.nuclear/index.html

[Yonivore]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/14/iran.nuclear/index.html
What is sure to become known as the "Libya Effect."

[Hook Dem]

This is sure to dissappoint Dan.

[JoeChalupa]

Now if we can only get N.Korea on the "Libya" band wagon.

[Hook Dem]

Now if we can only get N.Korea on the "Libya" band wagon.
Not too likely Joe.

[exstatic]

Didn't NK "suspend" their program like 3 times already? None of these "mea culpas" should be taken at face value unless they surrender fissionables already refined, and the means for refining.

[Yonivore]

Didn't NK "suspend" their program like 3 times already? None of these "mea culpas" should be taken at face value unless they surrender fissionables already refined, and the means for refining.
True, and I agree.

[ChumpDumper]

So you guys are giving France props now?

[JoeChalupa]

And don't forget that this deal accepted by Iran was with French, German and Britain ambassadors and it was reached because of Iran's desire to avoid U.N. sanctions.
During the past couple of years the Bush administration has been against any negotiating with Iran and has even expressed its dismay with our European allies.

I hope this deal can be followed through.

[spurster]

Like ex, I suspect that Iran will only suspend temporarily. This buys them more time to work in secret.

[whottt]

And don't forget that this deal accepted by Iran was with French, German and Britain ambassadors and it was reached because of Iran's desire to avoid U.N. sanctions.
During the past couple of years the Bush administration has been against any negotiating with Iran and has even expressed its dismay with our European allies.

I hope this deal can be followed through.


I'm sorry but this should be framed as the epitome of what is wrong with the liberal mindset...

You think France and the UN showing Iran their sensitive side is what broke through to the Iranians, and not the fact that we have "unilaterlially(with the help of 30 other counties) :rolleyes, kicked the shit out of, and loaded up our military in, countries that directly border them?

You are wrong.

Sanctions don't do shit...that's why North Korea has been on them for 50 years...that's why Saddam was on them for 12 years...Sanctions are the equivalent of suspending a kid from school rather than having his daddy whip his ass....I looked forward to suspensions because they gave me an excuse to do what I wanted to do anyway...but I didn't like it when my Daddy got his belt out. The rogue leaders of santioned countries don't suffer the sanctions, the populations do, and that breeds hatred. Sanctions punish the victim, not the criminal.

They are shit and largely ineffective against any country whose leader is not held accountable to his people.


Thank god for Republicans. Whew that(this election) was a close one. Hopefully most of these crazy liberals will make good on their promise to leave the US. Otherwise this country doesn't have much of a future as the leader of the free world.



By the way Joe...It looks like Bush, not Kerry, was right about how to solve the Iran issue...Bush advocated them method we were using(of letting the European powers negotiate with Iran)...Kerr was the one saying it was failing...Kerry, like those who supported him, was wrong.

[whottt]

So you guys are giving France props now?
Thank god you guys didn't win this election.

[Yonivore]

And don't forget that this deal accepted by Iran was with French, German and Britain ambassadors and it was reached because of Iran's desire to avoid U.N. sanctions.
I'd say that too, if I were Iran.

[JoeChalupa]

Well for the past two years Bush's policy has been based around the threat of taking Iran to the Security Council and that was what Kerry was saying.
And Whottt, Bush was [b]against/b] negotiating and the allies decided to go forward with it and succeeded (temporarily at least).

If it were up to Bush this agreement never would have been reached.

[whottt]

Well for the past two years Bush's policy has been based around the threat of taking Iran to the Security Council and that was what Kerry was saying.
And Whottt, Bush was [b]against/b] negotiating and the allies decided to go forward with it and succeeded (temporarily at least).

If it were up to Bush this agreement never would have been reached.

This is not true....Bush has always said he would pursue the diplomatic solution until it was exhausted...he just said we weren't going to negotiate with them. He always encouraged the European allies to negotiate with them and that left him free to stand behind them with a big ass stick...making that diplomatic solution a very attractive one for Iran.

Do you think it's a coincidence that in the days leading up to the election Iran was bragging about how far their missles could reach and saying death to America and now that Bush has been given 4 more years they are suddenly willing to accept a solution that they were lauging at last month?

The only thing that changed was that Bush got re-elected, and his threat of war is one that most countries in the world are taking very seriously now.

Call it the Iraq effect. And you might even want to call the cause of this new peacful Iran..."The Fallujah effect".

[ChumpDumper]

Thank god you guys didn't win this election.I think both sides suck, and neither is responsible for this.

[JoeChalupa]

That's not true. Bush has always remained strong in his opposition to negotiating with Iran, the "axis of evil" along with North Korea and Iraq.

[ChumpDumper]

It's always the same: country starts developing nukes, countries that already have nukes shit their pants and offer bribes. If a country is dead set on having nukes for its protection, they ignore the bribes (India). If all they were after were the bribes in the first place, they take the bribes (Iran).

[whottt]

I think both sides suck, and neither is responsible for this.

Confucksious say...it whos breath smells like shit, is likely full of it.

Don't try and act like you are objective or neutral on this...point me to one thread where you have been critical of the Democracts or their candidate. You haven't. I've been watching you.

You are pro-anti-American and have the typical out of touch with reality, head up ass mindset, with regards to world affairs, that all the so called educated liberals have.

[JoeChalupa]

Well what about the typical out of touch with reality, head up ass mindset, with regards to world affairs, that all the so called educated conservatives have? And you know they exist!

[whottt]

That's not true. Bush has always remained strong in his opposition to negotiating with Iran, the "axis of evil" along with North Korea and Iraq.

He's always remained strong in opposition to the US negotiatin with Iran. Guess what? Read the news lately? His way worked.

I guess Kerry's multilateral approach involving the US wasn't necessary...and without the threat of force offered by Bush do you think we would now have this agreement?


But Bush always backed Europe and the International community negotiating with Iran...classic good cop bad cop...

He has terrorist loving nations like Germany and France negotiate, along with decent good countries like the UK...all imploring Iran to give up their nuclear ambitions...all the while making it clear in his own comments that the only alternative to accepting Europe's offer is war with the United States.


You don't get the point...all of Bush backers aren't surprised by the fact that Iran is getting more peaceful...

You Kerry backers were the ones saying it couldn't be done this way.

Bush has always advocated letting Int Com negotiate...while we prepared to kick their ass if they choose to remain hostile.

Observe:


"The international community must come together to make it very clear to Iran that we will not tolerate construction of a nuclear weapon," Bush told reporters at the end of a meeting in the White House Cabinet Room. "Iran would be dangerous if it had a nuclear weapon," he said. Bush - June 18, 2003


Tuesday, August 31, 2004

TAYLOR, Mich. — Calling war divisive for the country, President Bush (search) said he will continue pursuing diplomatic rather than military options to try to get Iran to halt its nuclear program. - Bush - Tuesday, August 31, 2004




Tuesday, September 28, 2004

•Transcript: Bush Talks to O'Reilly •Raw Data: O'Reilly Interviews Bush
WACO, Texas — President Bush, preparing for this week's much-anticipated campaign debate on foreign policy, is insisting Iran will not develop a nuclear weapon.

"My hope is that we can solve this diplomatically," Bush said in a TV interview broadcast Monday. "We are working our hearts out so that they don't develop a nuclear weapon, and the best way to do so is to continue to keep international pressure on them."

Pressed on whether he would allow Iran to build a bomb, Bush said: "No, we've made it clear, our position is that they won't have a nuclear weapon." Bush - Tuesday, September 28, 2004

[ChumpDumper]

Don't try and act like you are objective or neutral on this.Yeah, like you are.

Bushy had nothing to do with this one, and of course neither did Kerry. Money talked as it usually does.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Now if we can only get N.Korea on the "Libya" band wagon.

The moment NK acts up, China will kick their ass, and everyone knows it (US, NK, China, SK anyway).

As for Iran, methinks the recent sale by the US of smart bombs designed to penetrate concrete and bunkers to Israel had a lot to do with their willingness to deal.

[whottt]

Well what about the typical out of touch with reality, head up ass mindset, with regards to world affairs, that all the so called educated conservatives have? And you know they exist!

Show me one...you want to say conservatives have that type of mindset with regards to the environment, scientiffic research, even economic ideas...I'd probably agree with you...but as far as foreign policy...the conservatives know the score...the liberals are fucking insane. So insane that one issue was enough to drive me away from the crats and support a candidate who stance I don't like on nearly every other issue.

Sometimes you got to fight...and sometimes you can avoid a big fight or having to fight every day, by kicking a smaller guys ass.

You know wht they say you should do to avoid getting raped in priston?

Well, they don't say you should walk around bemoaning civil rights and getting in touch with your sensitive side...they say you should go up to the biggest guy you can find, jump him and beat the living crap out of him to the best of your ability to send a message to every other person in that prison that you are not to be fucked with.

The modern Liberal idea of foreign policy would be great if everyone had the mindset of a modern liberal...unfortunately not every one does.

Guess what? Not everyone wants peace and human rights...if they did we wouldn't have these problems in the world right now.

[ChumpDumper]

You Kerry backers were the ones saying it couldn't be done this way.I didn't back anyone, but saying Bush got something done by not doing anything is hilarious. I said the Euros would do the dirty work so Bush wouldn't have to be seen as talking to any baddies.

I was right.

He still hasn't gotten anything done with Korea, and that is on him.

[ChumpDumper]

The moment NK acts up, China will kick their ass, and everyone knows it (US, NK, China, SK anyway).Define "acts up."

Having 8 nukes isn't enough for you?

[whottt]

Yeah, like you are.

Bushy had nothing to do with this one, and of course neither did Kerry. Money talked as it usually does.

Hmmm I don't even pretend to be unbiased but I have my share of criticism for both sides.

And you are fucking idiot if you think Iran was just trying to get bribe money...

Iran is not North Korea, or India, or Pakistan......they have sources of income....they should be one of the wealthies nations in the world with one of the highest standards of living...they aren't because they've got a bunch of corrupt medevil idiots running their country.

[ChumpDumper]

And you are fucking idiot if you think Iran was just trying to get bribe money.Then what were they doing? Gearing up to destroy the US? Iraq? You're a fucking idiot if you think that.

[whottt]

I didn't back anyone, but saying Bush got something done by not doing anything is hilarious. I said the Euros would do the dirty work so Bush wouldn't have to be seen as talking to any baddies.

No, it's because talking with them does no good if the threat of force is not involved dumbass. And Bush is the first threatening leader since Reagan.


I was right.

No you're not...you fucking stupid.


He still hasn't gotten anything done with Korea, and that is on him.

What ever...last week you were bitching about Iran too...you were wrong.

One threat at a time you impatient fuckhole.

[whottt]

Then what were they doing? Gearing up to destroy the US? Iraq? You're a fucking idiot if you think that.

Oh my goddddddddddddddddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bang

You are a lost cause.


Do you really think the only use for nukes would be to launch them at us or Iraq?

[ChumpDumper]

What ever...last week you were bitching about Iran too...you were wrong.
Nope, I said the Euros would do the dirty work while we did nothing. look it up tard.
One threat at a time you impatient fuckhole.This is why the Iraq war was such a bug hunt in the first place. NK actually HAS the WMDs that everyone pissed their pants about two years ago when we THOUGHT someone had them. We've promised not to speak with them either unless our negotiating with this terrorist can be diluted by inviting four other countries. We've done nothing but play into Kim's hands by delaying. All this guy needs is time to get a stronger bargaining position and that's all we're giving him.

Brilliant.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you really think the only use for nukes would be to launch them at us or Iraq?Then what? Spit it out. Sell them to terrorists? Then that's the US. Pakistan? MAD cancels that out.

[ChumpDumper]

[Iranian nuclear negotiator Hossein] Mousavian said the suspension would remain in force while Iran and the European Union (news - web sites) negotiated a long-term cooperation accord in talks that start Dec. 15. At stake is what the Europeans are willing to give Iran for suspending its uranium activities, most likely trade and other concessions, including a guaranteed source of fuel for civilian nuclear power plants.http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&e=17&u=/usatoday/20041115/ts_usatoday/iraniansagreetostopnuclearfuelprogram

All that's left is to determine the size of the bribe.

[whottt]

I'll tell you guys what is going to happen with North Korea...

Remember...like with us surrounding Iran...you heard it here first.

North Korea wants US troops out of South Korea. Now they are saying they want this because we threaten them..but really what they want is...South Korea.

South Korea has it's own share of idiots, that want the US troops that have defended them for the better part of 50 years, out of South Korea...

And we are going to give it to them. We are going to pull out South Korea much to the dismay of the South Korean Government.

This will either force North Korea to stop producing nukes, or...they could continue producing them, giving us more of a case, and world wide support, to go into North Korea..and should they make the serious mistake of invading South Korea, there will be absolutely no recourse but for the UN and other world powers to go into North Korea..

Basically we are taking away North Koreas excuses...and pretty soon they will have no alternative but to cease their nuclear pursuits...or is they still have balls, to tip their true hand and show that what they really want is South Korea.

[whottt]

Just shut the fuck up Chump you are fuckign stupid if you think the reason countries pursue Nukes is to get bribes...that is the stupidest fucking thing I have heard in my life.

Please tear up your voters registration card. You are a bigger threat to the US than Hitler and Usama combined.

Suffocating cynycism is no substitute for actual knowledge...I suggest you pull your head out.

[ChumpDumper]

You're acting like NK has a leader given to rational logic. This guy kidnaps actresses to be in movies he directs. Your little theory about what is going to happen in Korea is quaint. How many hundreds of thousands will die in that one?

[whottt]

Then what? Spit it out. Sell them to terrorists? Then that's the US. Pakistan? MAD cancels that out.

Dammit you are fucking stupid...

Just tell me one country that posesses nuclear weapons that has ever been invaded by another.

and you idiotic statement that nuke weilding countries shit in their pants at the idea of other countries getting nukes is equally stupid...did we add the UK and France to the enemies of the US list when they got their own nukes?

Dumbass...We don't like countries with opposing(and shitty) ideologies getting nukes because countries that have them are a hell of a lot more difficult to control.

[ChumpDumper]

Just shut the fuck up Chump you are fuckign stupid if you think the reason countries pursue Nukes is to get bribes...that is the stupidest fucking thing I have heard in my life.Just say you can't think of anyone they'd use it on. Save us your long-winded, impotent rants.
Suffocating cynycism is no substitute for actual knowledge.You've shown nothing resembling knowledge in this thread. I'm surprised you can work the keyboard.

[whottt]

You're acting like NK has a leader given to rational logic. This guy kidnaps actresses to be in movies he directs. Your little theory about what is going to happen in Korea is quaint. How many hundreds of thousands will die in that one?

Probably a lot.

Liberals will rejoice at the idea of dictators killing innocents though...so I won't consider this a legitimate bitch when I hear you say it...

I'll just consider it...bitching and whining...as usual.

[ChumpDumper]

Just tell me one country that posesses nuclear weapons that has ever been invaded by another.You mean Iraq didn't have any?
and you idiotic statement that nuke weilding countries shit in their pants at the idea of other countries getting nukes is equally stupid...did we add the UK and France to the enemies of the US list when they got their own nukes?The NPA wasn't in effect, and they're our buds anyway.
Dumbass...We don't like countries with opposing(and shitty) ideologies getting nukes because countries that have them are a hell of a lot more difficult to control.Which is why we piss our pants. Thanks for agreeing with me, PeePants.

[ChumpDumper]

Probably a lot. More than your fingers AND toes, dipshit.
Liberals will rejoice at the idea of dictators killing innocents though...so I won't consider this a legitimate bitch when I hear you say it...You're an ignorant demogogue twit. Try to understand the situation just a little bit before you consign the entire Korean people to death, m'kay?

[whottt]

Just say you can't think of anyone they'd use it on. Save us your long-winded, impotent rants.You've shown nothing resembling knowledge in this thread. I'm surprised you can work the keyboard.


No you're fucking dumbass...you have not gaps in
common sense but total fucking canyons.

You idiot,why you think the country with the 4th largest reserves of crude oil in the entire world needs hand outs on par with Pakistan or North Korea is beyond me you fucking idiot. And bribes are not the only reasons for Pakistan and N Korea wanting nukes either.

[whottt]

Sorry Chump but surrounding yourself with an imprentrable wall of stupidity doesn't mean you are making good points.

[ChumpDumper]

and bribes are not the only reasons for Pakistan and N Korea wanting nukes either.No shit dumbass. I said the nations who really want nukes simply ignore the pressure like India did.
You idiot,why you think the country with the 4th largest reserves of crude oil in the entire world needs hand outs on par with Pakistan or North Korea is beyond me you fucking idiot.Gee, then why are they asking for anything? Answer that.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry Chump but surrounding yourself with an imprentrable wall of stupidity doesn't mean you are making good points.Yet you keep doing it. How many millions die in your scenario again?

[whottt]

You mean Iraq didn't have any?

It's debateable but he wasn't in a position to use them even if he did have them.




The NPA wasn't in effect

Oh that must be why we were overjoyed with the Russians developing them. You dumbass.


and they're our buds anyway.Which makes your point that any country developing nukes makes us piss our pants, stupid, like you.




Which is why we piss our pants. Thanks for agreeing with me, PeePants.

So you admit it's not the nukes that cause that? It's nukes combiend with a hostile ideology...dumbass. So your simpleton view of things is both stupid and dangerous and thank you god yours was the minority voice in this election.

And no, only liberals piss their pants, conservatives fight back.

[whottt]

Chump about to get hit by a train:

Well gee....I could move out of the way of the train, or I could stand here and get killed by it...let's see, moving out of the way means I pissed my pants...so I guess it's better to get hit.


Dumbass.

[whottt]

Gee, then why are they asking for anything? Answer that.


For the same reason that we should never have been involved in the negotiations...because the small shred of support that regime has is based upon it's anti-American, anti-Israel stance. Giving in to our demands and our pressure causes the regime to lose a tremendous amount of credibility with it's backers.

[ChumpDumper]

It's debateableYou lost that debate a long time ago. Accept it.
Oh that must be why we were overjoyed with the Russians developing them.Way to miss the point. This is about countries getting nukes after the original powers were established.
So you admit it's not the nukes that cause that? It's nukes combiend with a hostile ideology...dumbass.Yeah, we were overjoyed when India got nukes, dumbass.
So your simpleton view of things is both stupid and dangerousYou're the one who just killed several million people in and around the Korean peninsula in one post dumbass.
And no, only liberals piss their pants conservatives fight back.No, they sit on their asses while others fight for them. You're dripping.

[whottt]

Yet you keep doing it. How many millions die in your scenario again?

Ask the worlds liberals...like yourself, those in S Korea and those in Europe...they will be the reason.

[ChumpDumper]

Well gee....I could move out of the way of the train, or I could stand here and get killed by it...let's see, moving out of the way means I pissed my pants...so I guess it's better to get hit.What are we doing about North Korea again?

Drip.

Drip.

You need Depends.

[ChumpDumper]

Ask the worlds liberals...like yourself, those in S Korea and those in Europe...they will be the reason.Fuck you you coward. You are the one who wants to run away from Korea just to watch Kim kill everyone. You are pathetic.

[whottt]

You lost that debate a long time ago.

What an idiot...You mean the world lost that debate since the world thought Iraq had them.

And you think I care Iraq didn't have operational WMD? I celebrate the fact. Only an idiot views that as something to bitch about. The only people who ever thought that was the relevant issue were liberals. And I remain unconvinced he didn't have them.



Accept it.Way to miss the point. This is about countries getting nukes after the original powers were established.

Since when? I don't recall you saying that in your original dumbass statement.



Yeah, we were overjoyed when India got nukes, dumbass.

Yeah we reacted to India developing them just like we did Iraq, Iran and North Korea.

You are too stupid to realize that A.It was a liberal administration that both let them develop them and then proceeded to bitch and whine about it to this very day. and B.It's not the idea of India itself having nukes that bother us...it's the idea of an arms race in Asia that bothers us. If it was just a choice of India having them, not China or Pakistan, I imagine we would be quite comfortable with that idea.

You are one of the idiots that think there is no right and wrong just differing view points...that's a stupid fucking philosophy. We don't want shithead countries getting them.



You're the one who just killed several million people in and around the Korean peninsula in one post dumbass.

Um, no the world did, specifically liberals in America, Europe and South Korea...with their trying to suck terrorist dick instead of rallying behind those that would confront them. And don't kill the messenger.

Just go shut up and suck it and please stop feeling qualified to have a political opinion or a right to vote.

[whottt]

Fuck you you coward. You are the one who wants to run away from Korea just to watch Kim kill everyone. You are pathetic.


Sometimes you got to crack a few eggs to make an omlete. :)

Besides, it'll make them shut the fuck up about our troops being their and most importantely about Hamm's gold medal...and that is important :).

If American and world liberals were't so busy trying to suck terrorist dick and politicizing necessary military action and using it as an excuse to attack the Bush and other sane administrations...we wouldn't have this problem. But as it is...liberals bitch about any and everything, even when they cause it...It will take the support of many countries to act on North Korea...support that isn't there because of dumbass terrorist dick sucking liberals. So this is the alternative..bitch away...just remember you were the cause.

If it makes you feel any better I'd prefer to see far left liberals get wiped out instead of the South Koreans, unfortunately I don't have that choice. But if it did happen the World would be a better(and more peaceful place).

[ChumpDumper]

The only people who ever thought that was the relevant issue were liberals.You can't rewrite history, try as you might.
I don't recall you saying that in your original dumbass statement.Yes, I didn't judge the level of the room. I will allow for your complete lack of intellect in the future.
You are one of the idiots that think there is no right and wrong just differing view points.Gee, where did I say that? For a guy who hangs on my every word, you're really taking liberties with that one. Dumbass.
Um, no the world did, specifically liberals in AmericaYou stupid piece of shit, you can't even acknowledge you run the country. Oh, no -- liberals. Whatever shall we do? Who makes policy? Who controls the government? Who has controlled the government? Who is doing nothing about NK RIGHT NOW? Take some fucking responsibility for once.

Just go shut up and suck it and please stop feeling qualified to have a political opinion or a right to vote.You first. Dumbass.

[ChumpDumper]

Sometimes you got to crack a few eggs to make an omlete.Thanks for admitting you have no regard for human life. Refreshing.

Spare us the tired rhetoric. You haven't shown one iota of knowledge about what's going on in NK, so save the straw man for someone who would fall for your distractions.

[whottt]

You can't rewrite history, try as you might.

Who is rewriting history? It's going to take multilateral action to go into North Korea...especially since they pose a nuclear threat...you should be jumping for joy...you and dumbasses like you wanted to be faced with this same scenario in Iraq and Bush denied you your nuclear confrontation and you haven't shut the fuck up since.



Yes, I didn't judge the level of the room. I will allow for your complete lack of intellect in the future.

Damn that's a long excuse...why not just admit you are backtracking?

You lumped all nuclear powers together...an act of stupidity...and if you weren't doing that your stance on the issue is even stupider.



You stupid piece of shit, you can't even acknowledge you run the country.

And you can't acknowledge that Bush's foreign policy is having success in the middle east...all you can do is bitch and whine.



Oh, no -- liberals. Whatever shall we do? Who makes policy? Who controls the government?

Conservatives all the way baby which is why you will see more progress made in the North Korea in the next 4 years than you have at any other time in the past 50 years.



Who is doing nothing about NK RIGHT NOW?

We are involved in multilateral talks with North Kores right now dumbass.



Take some fucking responsibility for once.

LMAO that's funny coming from you.

[ChumpDumper]

you and dumbasses like you wanted to be faced with this same scenario in Iraq and Bush denied you your nuclear confrontation and you haven't shut the fuck up since.Nuclear? Why come back to that when you turned tail and ran from it earlier?
You lumped all nuclear powers together.Nope. I can't help your stupidity.
And you can't acknowledge that Bush's foreign policy is having success in the middle east...I was all for invading Afghanistan. The occupation of Iraq is a much less clear cut operation. Forgive me for having an opinion. I'll just wave a flag from now on when people die -- I've been told it makes everything better.
Conservatives all the way baby which is why you will see more progress made in the North Korea in the next 4 years than you have at any other time in the past 50 years.I completely believe you see the deaths of millions in that area you predicted as progress. If you want to kill my in-laws that badly, be a man and shoot them yourself. Just change your shorts first.
We are involved in multilateral talks with North Kores right now dumbass.No, dumbass. We are talking about multilateral talks right now. And Kim just stalls. And builds.

Drip.

Drip.
LMAO that's funny coming from you.I don't want to kill your in-laws. Own it or backtrack. Right or wrong. Which is it?

[whottt]

Yawn, typical liberal hypcricy...you advocated a presidential candidate who played a role in the deaths of some 3 million Vietnamese and Cambodians. I didn't hear you guys complaining about that.

Then you try and act like the US is responsible for the security of Koreans, when in fact, we are not, and it's liberals like yourself that continually bitch about us being the World's police. It's not our lot in life to defend other countries civillians for 50 fucking years. If the Koreans die it will be because liberals like yourself allowed the North Koreans to take their country. It will be because we're sick of dumbass protestors thant whine and bitch about every thing no matter how contradictory...so we're going to give them what they want.


I have had to sit here and watch US boys die for the better part of 2 years now while fuckheads like yourself sit here on your ass and do nothing but upchuck cynicism and monday morning quarterback and erode their morale and minimize their reason for dying.

You think I'm not willing to watch some other countries civillians die for their own cause? It'll be a hell of a lot easier then watching those troops die.

[Drachen]

Sometimes you got to crack a few eggs to make an omlete. :)

Besides, it'll make them shut the fuck up about our troops being their and most importantely about Hamm's gold medal...and that is important :).

If American and world liberals were't so busy trying to suck terrorist dick and politicizing necessary military action and using it as an excuse to attack the Bush and other sane administrations...we wouldn't have this problem. But as it is...liberals bitch about any and everything, even when they cause it...It will take the support of many countries to act on North Korea...support that isn't there because of dumbass terrorist dick sucking liberals. So this is the alternative..bitch away...just remember you were the cause.

If it makes you feel any better I'd prefer to see far left liberals get wiped out instead of the South Koreans, unfortunately I don't have that choice. But if it did happen the World would be a better(and more peaceful place).

I really think it has nothing to do with liberals on this one. I think the reason we couldnt rally enough support would be because the entire world would see it as a decision between the lesser of two evils, and unfortunately (due to recent foreign policy), we are not seen as "less evil enough" for them to make a move.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Are we still arguing about North Korea? That was covered a good several weeks ago.

China is trying to join the global economy. Any acting up by Kim Jong will be met with a swift kick in the ass from Beijing.

We cleverly let a news report leak last month that Clinton's WH had come up with a plan that would greet any aggressive military action by the North with a nuclear barrage that would pretty much make NK cease to exist.

They know this, Kim Jong knows this, and China has sure as hell made their opinions known.

Quit worrying about shit that other people have already taken care of.

[Drachen]

I thought containment didnt work???

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Not in every case, no. Some it does. Every situation requires a different response and strategy.

[Drachen]

Well it seems to have worked backwards then, due to the absence of WMD's in Iraq, and the Nuclear weapons in NK. Ill be honest with you, although I know Saddam is a bad man, if it came down to it, I think we have more to fear w/Kim Jong Il. He seems unstable, and has the missile capability to reach us.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well I guess I could point out the obvious that Clinton screwed up originally and let NK build their nuke program, but seeings your obvious liberal rants on this board you'll probably somehow blame W. for it.

You won't find WMD in Iraq because it's been moved, I think anyone with a reasonable mind and some ability to use logic can see that.

Saddam had WMD, he didn't destroy it, said it was all gone, so where'd it go?

Kim Jong Il isn't the most stable guy around (but he has nothing on Dan), but even with his warped mind he knows the moment he does something military his ass and that of all this countrymen is gone.

And if there's one thing he is more than unstable, it's an egomaniac. Don't think he'd like the idea of going down as responsible for the destruction of his country.

We're progressing rapidly on the SDI, that will address "missiles that can reach us", but really I think the worry about him is way overblown.

He knows the moment he does something, he's gonna get it from China, Russia, South Korea, the US, and probably even Japan would throw in. It'd be over. Quick.

[Drachen]

Well I guess I could point out the obvious that Clinton screwed up originally and let NK build their nuke program, but seeings your obvious liberal rants on this board you'll probably somehow blame W. for it.

You won't find WMD in Iraq because it's been moved, I think anyone with a reasonable mind and some ability to use logic can see that.

Saddam had WMD, he didn't destroy it, said it was all gone, so where'd it go?

Kim Jong Il isn't the most stable guy around (but he has nothing on Dan), but even with his warped mind he knows the moment he does something military his ass and that of all this countrymen is gone.

And if there's one thing he is more than unstable, it's an egomaniac. Don't think he'd like the idea of going down as responsible for the destruction of his country.

We're progressing rapidly on the SDI, that will address "missiles that can reach us", but really I think the worry about him is way overblown.

He knows the moment he does something, he's gonna get it from China, Russia, South Korea, the US, and probably even Japan would throw in. It'd be over. Quick.


Please show me a rant... Yes my views are to the left, just as yours are to the right, but I have not once gone into a rant, I have not once lowered myself to personal attacks, the one statement that is further left than the rest of my posts would be about the fact that the ANWR is probably about to be drilled.

I think he doesnt care one Iota for his country. You are right about the egomaniac thing though, which is one of the main things that scares me, he wants to be able to play with the big boys and will do what it takes to prove he can.

[ChumpDumper]

Then you try and act like the US is responsible for the security of KoreansThen why are we there?
It's not our lot in life to defend other countries civillians for 50 fucking years.Then why are we there?
It will be because we're sick of dumbass protestors thant whine and bitch about every thing no matter how contradictory...so we're going to give them what they want.Then your a pussy who would rather listen to polls than your own convictions.
I have had to sit hereYes, all you do is sit. I respect you more if you put your money where your mouth is.
You think I'm not willing to watch some other countries civillians die for their own cause? It'll be a hell of a lot easier then watching those troops die.You have no respect for life at all. My family is not eggs for your omlette, you piece of shit.

[Hook Dem]

Chump....question! You don't have to reply to me and you can jump on me for asking the question, or you can answer. I have watched all of this with great interest without replying or "jumping in" but my curiosity has gotten the better of me. I mean no disrespect when I ask this. Without too many details, what do you do for a living? Just curious!

[ChumpDumper]

If you guess correctly, I'll tell you.

[Hook Dem]

If you guess correctly, I'll tell you.
I'm not that curious Chump. It was a legitimate question with no attachments. FYI...I'm retired from SWB Telco. I have nothing to be concerned about in revealing that.

[Yonivore]

If you guess correctly, I'll tell you.
Hooker?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Drachen,

He may not care about his country, but I think you're wrong on that one. Without people to worship him, he's nothing, and he knows it.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do about Alaska. The sooner we can become self-sufficient in the energy market, the sooner we can make a lot of policy changes WRT the Mideast that will largely settle the problems the Muslim world, led by Osama, have with us.

[whottt]

Then why are we there?Then why are we there?

Doesn't matter why we were there...this is one of those leaps of stupidity you make often...it doesn't matter why we were there...we're leaving now.


Then your a pussy who would rather listen to polls than your own convictions.Yes, all you do is sit.

Um my own convictions tell me we should pull out of South Korea. We could use the troops elsewhere...and the French and Germans can defend South Korea for a while. You know who the French are...you lick their asses daily on this forum. Get them to defend your family.



I respect you more if you put your money where your mouth is.
And I'd respect you more if you'd get the fuck out of country you live in yet criticize like it is your own personal bitch...and go defend your family in South Korea yourself, rather than advocating US boys continue to do it.

Thankless whining turds like yourself are exactly why I advocate we pull out. What is the point? To protect idiots?

And I tried.



You have no respect for life at all. My family is not eggs for your omlette, you piece of shit.

No, you have no respect for life at all...we have propped up the South Korean economy and defended it's hostile borders for 50 fucking years. They have had plenty of time to learn how to walk on their own two feet. You who support shitty countries against the US like France...like the colossal stupid fuck you are...are ungrateful for this...you have no problems with Saddam massacring Iraqis, yet let us move our military out of Korea for the first time in 50 years because other countries, that you love and defend daily on this forum, refused to help us in Iraq..and you whine like a bitch yet again.

They've done exactly shit for us...and you, who have family that have benefitted from the US Government and it's military for a half century, are a thankless turd who holds the US responsible for the actions of North Koreans and South Koreas own inability to defend itselt. You seem to think we owe people something...we don't. We are owed.


There, I said it, now what you gonna do? Badmouth the US, defend it's enemies, and spew negativity? Too late, you already do it. Get your ass to Korea and defend your own fucking family, mouth.

[ChumpDumper]

Doesn't matter why we were there.Sure it does, you just can't say it, since it proves you are wrong. Again.
Um my own convictions tell me we should pull out of South Korea. We could use the troops elsewhere.Where? Are we protecting other people in those places? How is that different?
And I'd respect you more if you'd get the fuck out of country you live in yet criticize like it is your own personal bitch.I know you can't stand anyone thinking this country can do something wrong, but it has and will. This nation was not built by yes men and cheerleaders.
You know who the French are...you lick their asses daily on this forum.When? Link?
Thankless whining turds like yourself are exactly why I advocate we pull out.So you just want to run away when your feewings are hurt. Aww, poor guy. Turns out you ARE all talk.
And I tried.
Tried what? To imprison anyone who disagreed with you? Deport them?
No, you have no respect for life at all...we have propped up the South Korean economy and defended it's hostile borders for 50 fucking years. They have had plenty of time to learn how to walk on their own two feet.What does that have to do with respect for life? You want my family dead. What kind of fucking monster are you? Your rant about my "loving" countries I have no love for doesn't change the fact that you want millions of Asians to die because you feel disrepected by a couple of people in the news who have hurt your widdle feewings. Saddam and Kim would be very proud of you.

Your complete willingness to give up American lives to stop Saddam from -- well we have no idea what he was actually doing that would threaten the US -- doesn't jibe with your bloodlust wanting Kim to kill everyone in South Korea and a large part of Asia. In your world of good and evil absolutes, wouldn't that be evil? You want evil to win in Korea. Congratulations -- you're evil, you Kim-loving piece of shit. You want good people to die because of some perceived insult? Pathetic.
There, I said it, now what you gonna do?I won't say I want your family dead, that's for sure. Because I'm not evil.
Get your ass to Korea and defend your own fucking familyIf it comes to that, I will do what I have to to make them safe from those who would have them killed like you.

[whottt]

Sorry but if you think it's America's job to defend Korea, you are a pompous ass...and if you think our failure to do so after 50 fucking years, makes us murderers, you are a dumbass to boot. It's not our job to defend Korea...it's theirs. We've got other shit going on and it's time for Korea to carry their own weight. Enough Americans have died for Korea only to be paid back by thankless assholes such as yourself labeling them murders because they are going to stop doing the Korean governments job.

Fuck off and stay fucked off...cunt.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

We're suffering from a lot of guilt from the past.

Covering Israel's ass all the time, covering SKorea's...

[Drachen]

Drachen,

He may not care about his country, but I think you're wrong on that one. Without people to worship him, he's nothing, and he knows it.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do about Alaska. The sooner we can become self-sufficient in the energy market, the sooner we can make a lot of policy changes WRT the Mideast that will largely settle the problems the Muslim world, led by Osama, have with us.

I dont think he cares about his own people at all, the worship is simply not a factor. I think fear and awe are the emotions he is trying to instill in people. Awe especially, because of his stature. Also if he can get these (in NK's eyes) Ueberpowers to "fear" him, then he will have risen up in the eyes of his people.

As for the self sufficient energy market, if we denied these people drilling rights, eventually they will realize that the earnings potential for oil is going down, which will, in turn make them invest in something with a far greater potential (hydrogen refining comes to mind), but as long as they are able to run rampant over this country, they have no reason to stop the way they are going.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well we need to disagree on Kim Jong Il then until you get a little more knowledge of the situation. Kim's ego is fed and driven by the worship of him by his people. If they all get the Hiroshima treatment, he has no one to feed the ego, not to mention the fact he knows he'd be dead. Not exactly a winning combination there for an egomaniac.

As for energy, I'm not sure what people you are referring to. One of Osama's fundamental tenents is that we are propping up tyrannical regimes in the Mideast because they are hooking us up with cheap oil. That we should let radical "idealogical" Muslims overthrow several regimes in the Mideast and properly run the Arabian peninsula, with part of that "properly running" aspect being us paying about $200 per barrel of oil.

Drilling in Alaska will be augmented with further alternative fuel source research and development. It's kind of assenine to bitch at the government about alternative fuels. There are a crapload of private investors and researchers out there looking for the magic bullet in the energy world, particularly pertaining to automobile use.

Denying drilling rights? I don't follow you. Deny those rights, and we become even more dependent on Middle East oil, in effect linking the fate of the future of our economy and nation even further with a potentially unstable environment in the Middle East. Looking within is smart, prudent, and the right thing to do.

I apologize if I sound condescending on this one, but self-sufficient energy use would radically alter our foreign (particularly Middle East) policy.

[Drachen]

Well we need to disagree on Kim Jong Il then until you get a little more knowledge of the situation. Kim's ego is fed and driven by the worship of him by his people. If they all get the Hiroshima treatment, he has no one to feed the ego, not to mention the fact he knows he'd be dead. Not exactly a winning combination there for an egomaniac.

As for energy, I'm not sure what people you are referring to. One of Osama's fundamental tenents is that we are propping up tyrannical regimes in the Mideast because they are hooking us up with cheap oil. That we should let radical "idealogical" Muslims overthrow several regimes in the Mideast and properly run the Arabian peninsula, with part of that "properly running" aspect being us paying about $200 per barrel of oil.

Drilling in Alaska will be augmented with further alternative fuel source research and development. It's kind of assenine to bitch at the government about alternative fuels. There are a crapload of private investors and researchers out there looking for the magic bullet in the energy world, particularly pertaining to automobile use.

Denying drilling rights? I don't follow you. Deny those rights, and we become even more dependent on Middle East oil, in effect linking the fate of the future of our economy and nation even further with a potentially unstable environment in the Middle East. Looking within is smart, prudent, and the right thing to do.

I apologize if I sound condescending on this one, but self-sufficient energy use would radically alter our foreign (particularly Middle East) policy.

Deny drilling rights and oil companies have to consider other sources of income. Provide energy from another source. I just read an article that surprised the hell outta me. Ireland is opening a wind farm off it's coast with 7 windmills that will provide power to 16000 homes. 16k from 7 turbines! link (http://www.popsci.com/popsci/generaltech/article/0,20967,714431,00.html) . In the article it says that there is opposition from both the left and the right, the most unnerving as a Dem is Ted Kennedy (I wanna spell this out for you guys "I disagree with some democrats on this one"). One of the reasons of opposition is that you will be able to see it from the coastline. I think this is stupid as I go to mustang island every year and see oil platforms (mobile ones), and the windmills are much more asthetically pleasing. With the oil industry's huge and powerful lobby, I think this problem could be taken care of. Also, I read another article stating that solar power has just about reached the holy grail of $1 per kilowatt hour (about the cost of producing energy w/oil). I cannot provide a link because I cant remember the magazine I read it in or if its even available online. I also think that OPEC will see this and realize that they cannot bully us with oil prices anymore as we are moving away from it, and as a last ditch effort to dissuade us from turning away from oil, will lower prices (plus the laws of supply and demand will kick in causing lower prices anyway). This will make the conversion to the other energy sources considerably softer. I want to go back to wind power for a second, the coastal generators work so well because there is a constant wind speed of around 16 to 20 mph. If they work so well at these speeds, WHY OH WHY are we not harvesting the katabatic winds?? They are at a constant 60-80 mph. We could partner w/canada to accomplish this. I dont think that it is assanine to bitch at the govt about alternative sources of energy. Yes there is much private funding, but if the government made policies that really encouraged the move away from oil, then it would happen.

I know this is one big paragraph and it isnt organized in the best way, but I have a tendency to type what comes to me when it does. I read a ton, and I guess my brain doesnt have the greatest filling system and as such I dont generally pull up ideas in order :lol .

Lastly, I will go ahead and
A. disregard the shielded insult about NK directed at me, and
B. agree to disagree on that one.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sounds good. I just think that in the case of NK, we have enough friends over there to keep the leash on KJI, and that as screwed up as he is in the head, he knows if he screws with us his entire country will be turned to glass 30 minutes later.

Interesting thoughts on energy, but until we do come up with alternatives that match or beat the costs of oil, that won't happen.

When it does, you'll see a lot more movement towards alternative fuels. In the same vain, you've got to consider the situation.

I.E., with the houses in the north in the winter, solar's not going to happen, and the windmills would be iced over.

[Drachen]

Sounds good. I just think that in the case of NK, we have enough friends over there to keep the leash on KJI, and that as screwed up as he is in the head, he knows if he screws with us his entire country will be turned to glass 30 minutes later.

Interesting thoughts on energy, but until we do come up with alternatives that match or beat the costs of oil, that won't happen.

When it does, you'll see a lot more movement towards alternative fuels. In the same vain, you've got to consider the situation.

I.E., with the houses in the north in the winter, solar's not going to happen, and the windmills would be iced over.

Use oil in that situation, or (in a few years) hydrogen. I dont think that we need to completely phase out oil tomorrow, but with the decreased use due to the aforementioned alternative sources, the little oil we do use could come from the US (and not from preserved wildlands).

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I agree, and like I said - we are also working feverishly with Russia to develop oil reserves there.

The sooner we move away from dependence on Mideast oil, the better off we'll be.

[Drachen]

BTW I just wrote to the American Wind Energy Association about my idea with the katabatic winds. I have been curious about this for a long time and want to find out why it hasnt been tried yet.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Like I said, there are a lot of energy projects being worked on, but you won't hear it until it's up and producing.

Announcing it would be basically telling OPEC "please jack up prices and empty our wallets."

[Drachen]

Like I said, there are a lot of energy projects being worked on, but you won't hear it until it's up and producing.

Announcing it would be basically telling OPEC "please jack up prices and empty our wallets."


Hmm, the prices are currently "Jacked" my wallet is "empty". Coincedence? I think not!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Actually prices have dropped about 12 cents in the last week or so, I think you'll see the prices continue to fall. It's really best for all sides if the price per barrel is about $35 or so.

If you think the prices were jacked up, just keep in mind if Osama got his way we'd all be paying about $10/gallon.

Like I said, I've seen us roll out several things already since Bush got elected policy wise that in the big picture are leading us to become self-sufficient and get our interest out of the Mideast. It's brilliance.