Maybe Vaughn isn't so bad

[GayForManu]

I know he got to play some garbage time last night against a team that plain gave up, but 18 minutes with 3 dimes and no turnovers. He didn't look all that bad, and played with some heart. He could be the Darrell Armstrong of this squad. Bonner was putting in some hustle as well.

I think the bench is going to dramatically improve. The Rodeo Road trip has always been a time where the team could gel and this year we had to expect a harder road than before. A lot of new faces on the squad, some injuries to Elson and Bonner have kept us from having a steady rotation, but I think they are starting to wake up.

And I truly feel that Vaughn at the backup point is alright. He's at least not a pussy like Beno. Udrih's best defense is "don't make me look bad and I'll go Ameachi for you."

More Vaughn, trade Oberto and Beno for anyone else with expiring contracts and draft a back up point this year. Start Elson and get Ely in the lineup, and we have a ring by the end of the year.

[AFBlue]

You drew a comparison to Darrell Armstrong...and that's pretty accurate. The problem is that Darrell Armstrong was a THIRD string PG on a championship-contending Dallas team. He's only now starting to see his minutes increase on a Pacer team on the lottery bubble.

I like Vaughn in limited minutes, but not to have a backup (as you suggest by trading Beno away) is rediculous, based on a few games in which he played decent...

[RADECK]

Wait some time, then we will see how good he is. Better than Beno never!

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Vaughn is an offensive liability, but...um, he's 3rd string at best, and he does his job well. ...but when the pressures on, I 'm not so sure he's up for the role when Tony's sitting. I'd rather have Barry and Manu do a tandem guard thing, then have Vaughn play crucial minutes.

That said, he's not putting himself in the negative. He directs and handles the ball pretty well, or at least minimizes how much his deficient game from influencing bad possessions. Unlike Beno. He maximizes his potential to fuck things up. Even if Beno DOES have more ability than Vaughn. Bleh Beno would benefit by playing for another team.

[GayForManu]

Vaughn has the intangibles that Beno will never have. He dives for loose basketballs, not loose balls in the locker room like Beno. Vaughn is a better defender, more reliable ball handler, less turnover prone. I think he has better chemistry with the second squad, and with Barry there he can be rotated in and not lose a big lead for us when they are both resting. Vaughn is hands down the solution for us this season. Like I said, trade Beno and Oberto for an expiring, draft a PG this year and let TP teach him how it is done.

[RADECK]

if Spurs trade Beno i cant wait to see Udrih-Vaughn 1on1!

[SAGambler]

The thing I think you have to love about Vaughn is the energy he brings and it seems to be infectious with the other players on the floor.

I had to laugh at the commentators last night, when Vaughn hit the floor and took the ball from AI. They started talking about how "tough" Iverson is, but he got up looking like a whipped puppy, while Vaughn had the presence of mind to get a TO called before someone could tie him up.

I think Vaughn and Manu on the floor together brings a ton of energy to what is going on at the time.

[ArgSpursFan]

We don´t need him more tham 10 mins P/game anyways at the playoffs.I think we could use Beno to trade him for a SF.That´s an issue right now,considering that Bowen´s back isn´t too healthy at this moment.(see on Bowen´s back worries Pop thread)

[bigdog]

vaughn polays with alot of energy for being someone that people consider a dinosaur in this league. most think he isn't an effective point guard, while he knows how to set up the offense,and doesn't make the stupid decisions that beno makes. and every once and a while, vaughn will get a few shots up. he plays MUCH better defense than beno,and at this point,i think we have enough people that can score to where we don't need beno's 3 point shot,because thats basically all he brings to this team. i really do hope he's gone by thursday,but if not,then oh well,put him on the inactive list.

[ArgSpursFan]

The thing I think you have to love about Vaughn is the energy he brings and it seems to be infectious with the other players on the floor.

I had to laugh at the commentators last night, when Vaughn hit the floor and took the ball from AI. They started talking about how "tough" Iverson is, but he got up looking like a whipped puppy, while Vaughn had the presence of mind to get a TO called before someone could tie him up.

I think Vaughn and Manu on the floor together brings a ton of energy to what is going on at the time.

Vaughn and Manu>Beno and Barry(as far as bench production)
Plus,since Manu and Vaughn are coming from the bench Finley and the rest of the guys have shown more energy on both Of.and Defensive ends.
I really think the two of them are showing the rest of the bench players that they need to play with more energy and give 110% night in and night out.

[AFBlue]

and at this point,i think we have enough people that can score to where we don't need beno's 3 point shot,because thats basically all he brings to this team.

I'm not a proponent of Beno because I think his lack of confidence has tanked his ability to create and even hit open shots, BUT I do think the Spurs need to address the backup PG spot to get a player with the potential to create offensively. The Spurs have plenty of "shooters", but off-nights or off-series by Barry & Finley cannot be negated by the play of Vaughn. IMO, the Spurs need to add another offensive weapon to the backcourt, a "scorer" preferably.

[bigdog]

I'm not a proponent of Beno because I think his lack of confidence has tanked his ability to create and even hit open shots, BUT I do think the Spurs need to address the backup PG spot to get a player with the potential to create offensively. The Spurs have plenty of "shooters", but off-nights or off-series by Barry & Finley cannot be negated by the play of Vaughn. IMO, the Spurs need to add another offensive weapon to the backcourt, a "scorer" preferably.
exactly, which is why smart people would want someone like a Chucky Atkins. he might be older than teams want him to be, but he sure can score.

[cheguevara]

I had to laugh at the commentators last night, when Vaughn hit the floor and took the ball from AI. They started talking about how "tough" Iverson is, but he got up looking like a whipped puppy, while Vaughn had the presence of mind to get a TO called before someone could tie him up.


Ivy is a balla, Vaughn is a real man
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/basketball/nba/02/20/bc.bkn.nuggets.spurs.ap/t2.iverson.ap.jpg

[GayForManu]

Not only do Vaughn and Manu bring energy off the bench, but Matt Bonner is a hustler too. Did you see that guy playing with wreckless abandon after the injury that put him out for 16 games? He is an animal on the offensive glass, a crowd favorite and if not for those missed free throws (which you could tell made his confidence disappear) he can be a great spot up shooter (the second coming of Robert Horry). The Red Rocket makes a great addition to the bench, Vaughn is a spark plug and everyone around him responds and Manu off the bench is just a sign of how incredibly bad he wants to win. This team is hungry and will do well in the playoffs as long as they all stay healthy and use the rest of the season to find some consistency in their rotations and gel as a team (thanks to Rodeo Road Trip they seem to be playing harder already, i.e. diving for loose balls when you are up by 30 in the 3rd quarter.)

[AFBlue]

exactly, which is why smart people would want someone like a Chucky Atkins. he might be older than teams want him to be, but he sure can score.

Atkins would be great, I would also settle for Dixon, who's name has been mentioned of late.

[ploto]

If Tony gets in foul trouble, the Spurs are still up a creek.

[cheguevara]

If Tony gets in foul trouble, the Spurs are still up a creek.

same thing goes if #2 player for any team gets in foul trouble.

[ArgSpursFan]

If Tony gets in foul trouble, the Spurs are still up a creek.

spurs still have Barry or Manu to play the Point Pos.besides Vaughn IF Parker gets in foul trouble.
But,in other hands,I don´t know what´s gonna happen if Bowen´s back keeps on hurting him.That worries me more tham the backup PG.

[2centsworth]

Vaughn has heart and he's seems to be finishing better now that he's the teams backup pg. Plus, he plays way better defense than Beno. I like Vaughn, he plays winning basketball IMO.

[AFBlue]

same thing goes if #2 player for any team gets in foul trouble.

Not necessarily. If Josh Howard gets into foul trouble, the Mavs can bring in Stackhouse or Buckner. If Terry gets into foul trouble, the Mavs can bring in Harris or Johnson.

There's a bigger talent disparity between the Spurs bench and the Mavs bench....one reason why Pop has gone to bringing Manu off the bench.

[mabber]

You drew a comparison to Darrell Armstrong...and that's pretty accurate. The problem is that Darrell Armstrong was a THIRD string PG on a championship-contending Dallas team. He's only now starting to see his minutes increase on a Pacer team on the lottery bubble.

I like Vaughn in limited minutes, but not to have a backup (as you suggest by trading Beno away) is rediculous, based on a few games in which he played decent...

Lottery bubble??? The Pacers are currently the 5th or 6th seed in the east and have a winning record (probably 4-5 games above 500)...how is that a team on the lottery bubble?

[cornbread]

Vaughn has heart and he's seems to be finishing better now that he's the teams backup pg. Plus, he plays way better defense than Beno. I like Vaughn, he plays winning basketball IMO.

Right on. The guy plays hard 100% of time that he's on the court. He dives for loose balls, grad rebounds in traffic and plays tough d. He may not have the best scoring abilities but I appreciate his efforts and passion. I feel more comfortable when JV is on the court than when Beno is.

[cheguevara]

Not necessarily. If Josh Howard gets into foul trouble, the Mavs can bring in Stackhouse or Buckner. If Terry gets into foul trouble, the Mavs can bring in Harris or Johnson.

There's a bigger talent disparity between the Spurs bench and the Mavs bench....one reason why Pop has gone to bringing Manu off the bench.

true we are not as deep as mavs but,
if Howard gets in foul trouble Mavs could lose to a mediocre team. Same thing w/Spurs. Like someone said, we'd still have Manu,barry to run point.

[sprrs]

As bad as some of you claim Vaughn is, and how he doesn't deserve more minutes, he's a better option than Van Exel was, and with Nick as our backup we did decent.

[AFBlue]

Lottery bubble??? The Pacers are currently the 5th or 6th seed in the east and have a winning record (probably 4-5 games above 500)...how is that a team on the lottery bubble?

6th seed, 4 games above .500....with Miami (now has shaq back) and Orlando only two games back. As I said, they are a fringe lottery team (only the top eight teams from each conference advances, and the rest are in the draft lottery).

[SAGambler]

I think the bigger worry is Ironman having back problems than worrying about Tony getting into foul trouble.

I really don't recall but possibly one game where Tony got hurt by fouls.

But we should worry if in fact Bruce is experiencing back problems.....

[Ballcox]

I like Vaughn and his play as of late with the Spurs. We don't need him to do much when he's in there. Just play some solid D, run the offense, get other players involved and maybe hit the occasional jumper or take it to the hole for points.

I think he'll be more than adequate through the rest of the season-assuming he stays healthy.

[GayForManu]

I know that there has been talk of Juan Dixon from Portland, but would they do a trade involving Oberto and Beno for Udoka and Dixon? I have a feeling if the throw in Udoke, they are not going to part with Dixon, so would you take Dikau as a throw in? Discuss.

[AFBlue]

I know that there has been talk of Juan Dixon from Portland, but would they do a trade involving Oberto and Beno for Udoka and Dixon? I have a feeling if the throw in Udoke, they are not going to part with Dixon, so would you take Dikau as a throw in? Discuss.

Udoka starts for them and plays significant minutes. If the Spurs threw Butler instead of Oberto, I think they might be able to pry Outlaw from the Blazers...they might have to include a pick...

Mr. Body's rebut in 5,4,3,2,1....

[GayForManu]

I'm all for that Phat Tony, the sooner we can get a young player in the system that can actually contribut, the better. Butler seemed like a long term solution, but his lazy ass hasn't done anything to make me think so. Ship him out as soon as possible. 22 hours and counting.

[ChumpDumper]

Why is everybody pretending that Juan Dixon is a point guard?

[AFBlue]

Why is everybody pretending that Juan Dixon is a point guard?

He doesn't play PG, but he could guard the point and have Barry/Ginobili run the plays with him off the ball. He could also play alongside Tony in a small guard set, similar to the Nash/Barbosa and Terry/Harris lineups.

I don't think he's the perfect fit, but I think he's better than what the Spurs have now...

[Mr. Body]

Udoka starts for them and plays significant minutes. If the Spurs threw Butler instead of Oberto, I think they might be able to pry Outlaw from the Blazers...they might have to include a pick...

Mr. Body's rebut in 5,4,3,2,1....

Uh... hmm... :spin ... Outlaw really isn't on the market?

Howdido?

[AFBlue]

Uh... hmm... :spin ... Outlaw really isn't on the market?

Howdido?

SAMSONITE! You were WAY off!

Just the whole thing about JB not being worth shite and the Spurs would be extremely fortunate to get back Outlaw while only surrenduring Butler. That's it.

What about a Dickau + Outlaw deal for Beno + Butler?

[Mr. Body]

If you could throw in two Butlers, they won't hang up the phone. Three, you got a deal.

[NFO]

I think the Spurs won't make any trades and Pop will stick with Vaugh as the backup PG for the remainder of the year. His defense is much better, he isn't as out of control as Beno and he doesn't try to force the issue like beno.

I think we should trade Beno for a 2nd round draft pick and save some cap money.

[The Truth #6]

I wouldn't trade Beno unless we get a player back. In the offseason that's a different story.

[remingtonbo2001]

What about Scola's rights and Beno to move up in the draft to get someone like Cory Brewer?

[RADECK]

Tonights game wasnt quite good! 23:24 minutes, 2 points, 3 turnovers!
When Beno played he atleast tried to attack basket!