Scola shines on Tau´s win vs. Pau Orthez

[ArgSpursFan]

posted on 02/22/07 @ http://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame/report?gamecode=177
Tau Ceramica had to survive a furious rally to stay perfect at the top of Group D by pulling out a 89-99 road win against Pau-Orthez in France on Thursday. Tau raised its record to 2-0, good for exclusive control of first place after Lottomatica Roma lost at home to Maccabi Tel Aviv. Pau fell to 0-2, but not for lack of trying. Tau led by as many as 25 points late in the third quarter, but Pau rallied after that to within 4 points with a couple minutes to play before the visitors made sure with 10-for-10 free throw shooting down the stretch. Luis Scola paced the winners with 23 points, 8 rebounds and 5 assists. Igor Rakocevic added 18 points, while Fred House had 17 and 10 rebounds. Serkan Erdogan scored all his 15 points in the first half. For Pau, Clint Harrison buried 4 three-pointers on the way to 22 points. Aaron Miles followed with 17 points, Michael Wright with 15 and Ricardo Greer with 14.

I guess Luis is showing the spurs FO that He can be the right choice this coming summer.

[ChumpDumper]

Is he? That team he played isn't exactly full of frontline superstars.

[ArgSpursFan]

Is he? That team he played isn't exactly full of frontline superstars.

eather were the Hawks and everybody talked about Manu being a Hero yestarday.
:smokin

[ChumpDumper]

Hawks frontline >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pau frontline

[djohn14]

I've already forgot what team Ian plays for. Is he doing good? I didn't want to start a new thread because I would get yelled at. So please answer me.

[ArgSpursFan]

Hawks frontline >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pau frontline

Atlanta Hawks =worst team on NBA.
Pau is playing the second round of euroleague.
Sorry chump try again later. :fro

[Kori Ellis]

I've already forgot what team Ian plays for. Is he doing good? I didn't want to start a new thread because I would get yelled at. So please answer me.

Ian plays for Pau Orthez. Today he played six minutes had three fouls and two points.

[ArgSpursFan]

Ian plays for Pau Orthez. Today he played six minutes had three fouls and two points.

Yeap,He aint doing that good.

[ArgSpursFan]

SCOLA 29mins 8/15fg 7/13 ft 8rbs(3 of) 5 ast 2 stls 23 pts

MAHINMI 6 mins 1/1 1 rbs. 1 t.o 2 pts

[Bruno]

Mahinmi has a very difficult season with Pau. It's not a surprise to see hem having troubles in euroleague because he is still very young and raw but he should have been better after his good last year and his good summer.

I haven't watched this game but Ludovic Vaty has been very good given that he is only 18 years old. He isn't very talented but he is very strong and athletic : I wouldn't be surprised to see him one day in nba .

[djohn14]

Thanks Kori

[ArgSpursFan]

Mahinmi has a very difficult season with Pau. It's not a surprise to see hem having troubles in euroleague because he is still very young and raw but he should have been better after his good last year and his good summer.

I haven't watched this game but Ludovic Vaty has been very good given that he is only 18 years old. He isn't very talented but he is very strong and athletic : I wouldn't be surprised to see him one day in nba .

Igor Rakocevic is having a great year also.I didn´t know he got cated with the spurs once.Just found out last week.

[leemajors]

Atlanta Hawks =worst team on NBA.
Pau is playing the second round of euroleague.
Sorry chump try again later. :fro

the hawks aren't the worst team in the nba.

[Kori Ellis]

Igor Rakocevic is having a great year also.I didn´t know he got cated with the spurs once.Just found out last week.

It was in 2003. He was invited to training camp, but only last 3 days or so. He didn't even make it to the first preseason game.

[Bruno]

Igor Rakocevic is having a great year also.I didn´t know he got cated with the spurs once.Just found out last week.

Rakocevic is a 6'3" 29 years old unathletic SG. He is the typical great european player who should stay in europe where he will earn more money and play more than in nba.

[BrianBird]

When will people finally let go of this Scola enigma and realize he won't ever step foot on the AT&T center floor with a Spur's jersey on. If he can somehow bring some value in trade, thats one thing. If he was ever going to be a spur he would already be one.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeap,He aint doing that good.Yet you think Ian is better than anyone on the Hawks. :drunk

[Solid D]

Is Ian Mihinmi a bust?

:corn:

[Russ]

Is Ian Mihinmi a bust?

:corn:
Only as a basketball player.

[TDMVPDPOY]

mahinmi is starting look like a fuckn bust now

[2centsworth]

Is he? That team he played isn't exactly full of frontline superstars.
not quite the Toros.:p:

[mountainballer]

Is Ian Mihinmi a bust?

:corn:

no.
he is probably the fastest fouling player on this planet.
if we need that kind of qualification one day, we will be great.

[Bruno]

Spurs' fans are incredible. :lol
When Spurs have old players, they whine because Spurs need to go younger.
When Spurs have young prospects (like Butler, White, Sanikidze or Mahinmi), they whine and call them bust instead of being patient and give them some time to develop themselves.
Bitching at his best, go figure. :rolleyes

[Peter]

Spurs' fans are incredible. :lol
When Spurs have old players, they whine because Spurs need to go younger.
When Spurs have young prospects (like Butler, White, Sanikidze or Mahinmi), they whine and call them bust instead of being patient and give them some time to develop themselves.
Bitching at his best, go figure. :rolleyes


You must be new here.

[ArgSpursFan]

Yet you think Ian is better than anyone on the Hawks. :drunk

nope,I didn´t say that.
I said that while the hawks are one of the worst teams in NBA,Pau is playing the second round of euroleague,which is like an NBA 1st.round playoff.
So what I tried to say was that Pau was more important in euroleague tham the Hawks in NBA. :reading

[velik_m]

nope,I didn´t say that.
I said that while the hawks are one of the worst teams in NBA,Pau is playing the second round of euroleague,which is like an NBA 1st.round playoff.
So what I tried to say was that Pau was more important in euroleague tham the Hawks in NBA. :reading


:lmao

[AFBlue]

It's no secret that Luis Scola has been a dominant Euroleague star. They mystery is how he'll do in the NBA. If the Spurs aren't blown away by the production of the "other bigs" down the stretch and he comes for a reasonable price, they'll give him the opportunity to prove himself next year.

I, for one, hope he does get that opportunity. I think he'll do well...

[ArgSpursFan]

It's no secret that Luis Scola has been a dominant Euroleague star. They mystery is how he'll do in the NBA. If the Spurs aren't blown away by the production of the "other bigs" down the stretch and he comes for a reasonable price, they'll give him the opportunity to prove himself next year.

I, for one, hope he does get that opportunity. I think he'll do well...


I think they´ll give him a chance next year.If not I hope they trade him to a team that really needs a guy with 9 years of international experience,with an Olympic gold medal hanging on his chest,who can easily put 10+ ppg 6+ rpg in 3+apg in his roockie year.
Well see what happens when Ely´s and Bonner´s contracts expire this offseason.

[TDMVPDPOY]

spurs fO dont see eye to eye with european clubs

fuck

[ArgSpursFan]

Ian plays for Pau Orthez. Today he played six minutes had three fouls and two points.

Scola got him in foul trouble at the begining of the game,He couldn´t get nothing going his way after that.

[Dartherus]

I think they´ll give him a chance next year.If not I hope they trade him to a team that really needs a guy with 9 years of international experience,with an Olympic gold medal hanging on his chest,who can easily put 10+ ppg 6+ rpg in 3+apg in his roockie year.
Well see what happens when Ely´s and Bonner´s contracts expire this offseason.
I bet my hands that he can do quite better numbers than that in any other franchise not named Spurs.

For the Spurs, having Tim in his spot, he can become a great boost of energy from the bench, he has done it in the past, and as a 6th men, unlike other guys used to be stars, he can give great performance. A truly upgrade compared with players like Oberto, Ely or Elson.

[SequSpur]

Who is Luis Scola?

[AFBlue]

Who is Luis Scola?

The most dominant Argentinian player EVER...outside of Manu, that is...

[wildbill2u]

Yeap,He aint doing that good.
Well, lets look at it per 48 minutes--a stat many people swear by.

MAHINMI 6 mins 1/1 1 rbs. 1 t.o 3 Pf, 2 pts translates into:

8/8, 8 rebounds and 16 points. Not bad at all.

OK, it also turns into 8 Turn Overs and 24 personal fouls but you can see he's a guy who can come in next year and take over at center.

I'm excited. :clap

[ArgSpursFan]

Well, lets look at it per 48 minutes--a stat many people swear by.

MAHINMI 6 mins 1/1 1 rbs. 1 t.o 3 Pf, 2 pts translates into:

8/8, 8 rebounds and 16 points. Not bad at all.

OK, it also turns into 8 Turn Overs and 24 personal fouls but you can see he's a guy who can come in next year and take over at center.

I'm excited. :clap

hey,you forgot something...he was 100% Fg.
heheheheh

[SequSpur]

The most dominant Argentinian player EVER...outside of Manu, that is...

then how come he is still playing with a bunch of pussies instead of the NBA?

[ArgSpursFan]

then how come he is still playing with a bunch of pussies instead of the NBA?

cause he´s been dealing with a bunch of cheap pussies in the NBA(spurs FO)

[Mr. Body]

cause he´s been dealing with a bunch of cheap pussies in the NBA(spurs FO)

Scores!

[timvp]

Pau is playing the second round of euroleague,which is like an NBA 1st.round playoff.

:lol

If Pau was in the NBA, they'd be 0-82.

[AFBlue]

then how come he is still playing with a bunch of pussies instead of the NBA?

Being sarcastic...

And though it's probably true, the talent gap between the two (Ginobili & Scola) is big and saying he's the second best Argentinian isn't saying THAT much relative to all players in the NBA.

[ArgSpursFan]

:lol

If Pau was in the NBA, they'd be 0-82.

But ,they´re not.In other hands if Scola was in the NBA(spurs),we wouldn´t been strugling to get some scoring in the paint besides Duncan

[timvp]

But ,they´re not.In other hands if Scola was in the NBA(spurs),we wouldn´t been strugling to get some scoring in the paint besides Duncan

True. Scola reminds me of Michael Jordan except better and from Argentina.

[ArgSpursFan]

True. Scola reminds me of Michael Jordan except better and from Argentina.
WRONG!!
that´s Emanuel Ginobili,moron!!!,not Scola.
:fro

[ChumpDumper]

But ,they´re not.In other hands if Scola was in the NBA(spurs),we wouldn´t been strugling to get some scoring in the paint besides DuncanDo you want a Tony Parker shot chart?

I still haven't been convinced he's really worth all this relentless hype. Too bad we didn't trade his rights yesterday, but even if that happened we'd still be hearing about him. i guess it doesn't matter.

[ArgSpursFan]

Do you want a Tony Parker shot chart?

I still haven't been convinced he's really worth all this relentless hype. Too bad we didn't trade his rights yesterday, but even if that happened we'd still be hearing about him. i guess it doesn't matter.

I´m talking about big guys,not Guards who can penetrate.
if thats the case ,manu gets alot of scoring in the paint too.

[SequSpur]

But ,they´re not.In other hands if Scola was in the NBA(spurs),we wouldn´t been strugling to get some scoring in the paint besides Duncan


I declare bullshit on this take.

Also, who in the hell deleted my topic this morning?

[ChumpDumper]

I´m talking about big guys,not Guards who can penetrate.
if thats the case ,manu gets alot of scoring in the paint too.Then be more specific. You still have a long way to go to convince me he's worth the hype.

[Aikita]

I´m talking about big guys,not Guards who can penetrate.
if thats the case ,manu gets alot of scoring in the paint too.

Porque no la cortas un poco, ya cansan tus posts flaco. Sos un argentino cargoso.
Entre los americanos que creen que creen que el mundo gira alrededor de ellos y los argentinos cargosos como vos, no se con quien quedarme. Terminas convirtiendote en el TPork argentino.

[ArgSpursFan]

Then be more specific. You still have a long way to go to convince me he's worth the hype.

I´m not trying to Chump.I´m just giving my opinion.take it or leave it.I may be wrong,but I know for sure this guy(Scola) aint no bust.

[AFBlue]

Then be more specific. You still have a long way to go to convince me he's worth the hype.

What hype dude? Args' hype? Lebron James couldn't live up to the hype if Args campaigned for him...

I think he's worth something to this team for them to take a look at. Honestly, how much worse could he be than current roster fillers at the PF/C position?

[ChumpDumper]

I´m not trying to Chump.I´m just giving my opinion.take it or leave it.I may be wrong,but I know for sure this guy(Scola) aint no bust.I don't have enough evidence to prove he wouldn't be a bust in the NBA.

[ArgSpursFan]

Porque no la cortas un poco, ya cansan tus posts flaco. Sos un argentino cargoso.
Entre los americanos que creen que creen que el mundo gira alrededor de ellos y los argentinos cargosos como vos, no se con quien quedarme. Terminas convirtiendote en el TPork argentino.

I say,why don´t you go to FUCKING HELL INSTEAD?BITCH :fro

[ChumpDumper]

What hype dude? Args' hype? Lebron James couldn't live up to the hype if Args campaigned for him...

I think he's worth something to this team for them to take a look at. Honestly, how much worse could he be than current roster fillers at the PF/C position?He could be the same. Everything points to his being as weak a rebounder as anyone else not named Duncan, and his only really being able to score when Duncan is out doesn't excite me either. I'm totally willing to give him a chance, but three years and $9 million? That's alot for a team that's so conscious of the tax (and that means every team except the Knicks these days).

[Bruno]

BTW, rumor in France is that Mahinmi will sign with Spurs this summer.

[ArgSpursFan]

BTW, rumor in France is that Mahinmi will sign with Spurs this summer.
After what i saw yesterday from him on the court,I must say,I belive you.
too bad the spurs have this actual FO.

[timvp]

BTW, rumor in France is that Mahinmi will sign with Spurs this summer.
Probably makes some sense basketball wise. I doubt he'd play much more next year with Pau. Might as well bring him over and let him play in the DLeague and get used to the NBA rules.

But I could see the Spurs waiting another year because him coming over this summer wouldn't jive with The 2008 Plan.

[Mr. Body]

BTW, rumor in France is that Mahinmi will sign with Spurs this summer.

Whose spot on the roster does he take? Who do you imagine will be leaving? Will we really not be taking on any rookies at all?

[AFBlue]

He could be the same. Everything points to his being as weak a rebounder as anyone else not named Duncan, and his only really being able to score when Duncan is out doesn't excite me either. I'm totally willing to give him a chance, but three years and $9 million? That's alot for a team that's so conscious of the tax (and that means every team except the Knicks these days).

Fabs is a 5/5 guy in 20MPG, and he'll admit to you himself that he's not half the player Scola is. Of course that doesn't translate to Scola being a 10/10 guy, but he's more athletic and has a more refined post game.

Sure he could be the same, but more signs point to him being better...

[Bruno]

But I could see the Spurs waiting another year because him coming over this summer wouldn't jive with The 2008 Plan.

Keeping Mahinmi overseas won't help Spurs to get capspace in 08. Unsigned first round picks count against the cap during summers.

[AFBlue]

Whose spot on the roster does he take? Who do you imagine will be leaving? Will we really not be taking on any rookies at all?

This is why I could see them waiting until 08. Get Oberto, Barry, Finley, and Elson off the books unless they decide to re-sign. Alot could happen between then and now, but I think it makes the most sense for him to come over in summer 08.

[ChumpDumper]

Fabs is a 5/5 guy in 20MPG, and he'll admit to you himself that he's not half the player Scola is. Of course that doesn't translate to Scola being a 10/10 guy, but he's more athletic and has a more refined post game.

Sure he could be the same, but more signs point to him being better...How much better? What do you think his numbers would be?

[AFBlue]

How much better? What do you think his numbers would be?

10 and 5 in 20MPG if he comes over next year and replaces Fab in the rotation. Equally effective rebounder, much better scorer...

[Bruno]

Whose spot on the roster does he take? Who do you imagine will be leaving? Will we really not be taking on any rookies at all?

Mahinmi signing with Spurs this summer isn't based on a reflexion I've done. it's jsut based on what I've read/heard in france.

I guess that if Mahinmi sign with Spurs, he will spend one year between the IR and the D league as 6th bigman. I don't know who will eb the 5 bigs ahead him (it's way too soon to speak about enxt year roster) but I can see something like Duncan/Elson/Bonner and 2 others players among Butler, Ely, FA, draft picks, Scola, Oberto. I think that Horry will retire at teh end of the season.

[AFBlue]

I think that Horry will retire at teh end of the season.

And I hope Scola takes his spot, not Mahinmi. One can contribute right away and the other is at least a year or two away (if ever)....

[ChumpDumper]

10 and 5 in 20MPG if he comes over next year and replaces Fab in the rotation. Equally effective rebounder, much better scorer...All this fuss over a guy who isn't going to be any better than Juwan Howard right now?

[AFBlue]

All this fuss over a guy who isn't going to be any better than Juwan Howard right now?

No fuss from me, I just think he's the best available option.

And I'd pay $3M per year for a guy that has low post skills and won't even be 30 by the time his contract is likely to expire. The Spurs could do worse...alot worse.

[AFBlue]

All this fuss over a guy who isn't going to be any better than Juwan Howard right now?

Oh and Juwan starts for the 4th best team in the West...

[Bruno]

And I hope Scola takes his spot, not Mahinmi. One can contribute right away and the other is at least a year or two away (if ever)....

You want to have Scola as 6th bigmen ?
There are few links between Scola and Mahinmi. Spurs choice about Scola this summer won't be Mahinmi or Scola. It will be more a choice between Scola, Bonner and Ely.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh and Juwan starts for the 4th best team in the West...Not by design. And that's a fuss argument.

[AFBlue]

You want to have Scola as 6th bigmen ?
There are few links between Scola and Mahinmi. Spurs choice about Scola this summer won't be Mahinmi or Scola. It will be more a choice between Scola, Bonner and Ely.

Ely is technically the 7th big man, but I see what you mean. I just assumed (shouldn't have) that Horry would retire, but that Bonner would re-sign and take his place. Scola would effectively become Oberto, and Oberto would effectively become IL material...he's been there before.

[ArgSpursFan]

I´d say Scola for ely(expiring contract)this summer
and Mahinmi for Oberto(this or next summer)
I don´t know.We´ll see.
to me, Bonner stays

[ChumpDumper]

So we're hoping Scola can put up Melvin Ely getting-regular-minutes type stats playing a Melvin Ely type game.

[AFBlue]

Not by design. And that's a fuss argument.

I know, they gave Swift every opportunity to win the job, but can't do better than Juwan. I see your point, BUT...

It illustrates that not every player, or even every starter, on a championship contending team has to be a superstar.

The bottom line is that Scola should be given the opportunity to prove that he's at least that 10/5 guy as a rookie (with the stipulation that he could improve as he learns to adjust to the NBA game...not something Howard would do), because he SHOULD (can't say he will, not yet) be an upgrade and the Spurs don't have any better option.

[ChumpDumper]

The bottom line is that Scola should be given the opportunity to prove that he's at least that 10/5 guy as a rookie And if he doesn't? $6 million more for a bust?

[AFBlue]

So we're hoping Scola can put up Melvin Ely getting-regular-minutes type stats.

And consequently Ely is making how much? Exactly...

Why should a guy be denied $3M per year when someone without the intangibles gets that much...

By "intangibles" I am referring to the winning attitude, the aggressiveness, and the heart. Seems like Scola plays with a passion that I don't think the Clips or Bobcats ever saw out of Ely...

[AFBlue]

And if he doesn't? $6 million more for a bust?

Chump change...

Get it, CHUMP change... :lol

I crack myself up...

[ChumpDumper]

And consequently Ely is making how much?Next season? Who knows. He might be much more of a bargain and much less of a risk than Scola.
By "intangibles" I am referring to the winning attitude, the aggressiveness, and the heart.Didn't Oberto have all that? What was the price premium on that?

[ArgSpursFan]

And consequently Ely is making how much? Exactly...

Why should a guy be denied $3M per year when someone without the intangibles gets that much...

By "intangibles" I am referring to the winning attitude, the aggressiveness, and the heart. Seems like Scola plays with a passion that I don't think the Clips or Bobcats ever saw out of Ely...

good point.

[AFBlue]

And if he doesn't? $6 million more for a bust?

Sure, why not? The Spurs should stand pat with what they've got next year? Or they should re-up a guy like Ely for a one-year deal...assuming he'd take it? Give me some options here Chump...

[ChumpDumper]

Chump change...If it's so little to you, I'll take any spare millions you have laying around.

[ArgSpursFan]

Next season? Who knows. He might be much more of a bargain and much less of a risk than Scola.Didn't Oberto have all that? What was the price premium on that?

who said Oberto was all that??
In my book Oberto is a mediocre NBA player,and I thought that since before he came to the NBA,and most of people who watches FIBA basketball knows that.
But Scola is a diferent story Chump.

[AFBlue]

Next season? Who knows. He might be much more of a bargain and much less of a risk than Scola.

He got a qualifying offer of $3M. If he shows anything in the next few months I think he looks for similar money and longer term. If he shows nothing, is he worth re-signing?



Didn't Oberto have all that? What was the price premium on that?

Yeah Chump he did, with HALF the talent.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure, why not? The Spurs should stand pat with what they've got next year?Should they spend most of their exception money on Scola when they don't have to? Are there any other positions where the Spurs need help?
Or they should re-up a guy like Ely for a one-year deal...assuming he'd take it?Why limit him to one year if your willing to give Scola three? If you grant their potential production as being more or less equal, Ely's re-signing could conceivably cost ZERO extension money, even if his asking price is the same as Scola's.
Give me some options here Chump...You want a list of free agents and draft prospects? Thinking Scola is the only option is myopic.

[ChumpDumper]

who said Oberto was all that??
In my book Oberto is a mediocre NBA player,and I thought that since before he came to the NBA,and most of people who watches FIBA basketball knows that.
But Scola is a diferent story Chump.How good is he going to be? What do you think his numbers are going to be?

[ArgSpursFan]

he is the only option in europe,he is trying to say I belive.,not domesticaly,and for the kind of money he wants(3 M p/year)

[ChumpDumper]

.
If he shows anything in the next few months I think he looks for similar money and longer term. And?
If he shows nothing, is he worth re-signing?No. And?
Yeah Chump he did, with HALF the talent.What was the dollar amount of that premium? What is it for Scola?

[ArgSpursFan]

How good is he going to be? What do you think his numbers are going to be?

8/7 in his roockie year.For sure.in 17 mpg

[ChumpDumper]

8/7 in his roockie year.For sure.in 17 mpgHe doesn't even average 6 rebounds in 27 minutes in Euroleague. Four boards in 17 minutes would be a reach in the NBA.

[timvp]

8/7 in his roockie year.For sure.in 17 mpg

So Scola would go from an average rebounder in Europe to the best rebounder in the NBA?

If Scola comes in and averages more rebounds per minute than anyone in the league, I'll remember that ArgScolaFan said it first.

Good luck.

[ArgSpursFan]

He doesn't even average 6 rebounds in 27 minutes in Euroleague. Four boards in 17 minutes would be a reach in the NBA.

He doesn´t have to.FIBA basketball is diferent tham NBA basketball.
why you think the US gets busted when they play againts ather countries under FIBA rules.?
They have deferents rules in FIBA tham NBA.like the shot clock for example.they give a new shot clock every time the ball goes out of bounds.that´s why games under FIBA rules ussually end up like 80-69 scores,for example,and players average less points and rebounds tham in NBA

[ArgSpursFan]

and also FIBA games are of 4 qts of 10 mins each one.(40 mins total)
Another reason to average less points and rebounds p/game

[timvp]

Rebounds Per 48 Minutes
1. Luis Scola - 19.8
2. Reggie Evans - 19.4
3. Dikembe Mutombo - 18.5
4. Tyson Chandler - 17.2
5. David Lee - 16.8

Believe.

:drunk

[ChumpDumper]

He doesn´t have to.FIBA basketball is diferent tham NBA basketball.
why you think the US gets busted when they play againts ather countries under FIBA rules.?
They have deferents rules in FIBA tham NBA.like the shot clock for example.they give a new shot clock every time the ball goes out of bounds.that´s why games under FIBA rules ussually end up like 80-69 scores,for example,and players average less points and rebounds tham in NBAHow exactly would those rule changes result in Scola's rebounding at a rate greater than ANY PLAYER IN THE NBA THIS SEASON?

[timvp]

How exactly would those rule changes result in Scola's rebounding at a rate greater than ANY PLAYER IN THE NBA THIS SEASON?

You only get 5 fouls in the FIBA rules. In the NBA, you get 6. Plus there is zone allowed in FIBA and the games are played mostly in European time zones. Also Scola's balls he plays with aren't real leather.

:toast

[ChumpDumper]

You only get 5 fouls in the FIBA rules. In the NBA, you get 6. Plus there is zone allowed in FIBA and the games are played mostly in European time zones. Also Scola balls he plays with aren't real leather.

:toastAlso, the fans do those soccer-style cheers all while the game is in progress. Very distracting to the rebounders.

[ArgSpursFan]

How exactly would those rule changes result in Scola's rebounding at a rate greater than ANY PLAYER IN THE NBA THIS SEASON?

All I can tell you is that if fabbs averages 5 in 20,he´ll get at least 2 more p/game.

And ,TIMVP,your boy Mahinmi sucked yesterday against The Euroleague´s MVP

[ChumpDumper]

All I can tell you is that if fabbs averages 5 in 20,he´ll get at least 2 more p/game.No, you already told us that Scola will be the most productive rebounder in the NBA next season. Why back down from there?

[ArgSpursFan]

You only get 5 fouls in the FIBA rules. In the NBA, you get 6. Plus there is zone allowed in FIBA and the games are played mostly in European time zones. Also Scola's balls he plays with aren't real leather.

:toast

they use the balls that NBA players didn´t like this season and changed to the old ball back again

[timvp]

All I can tell you is that if fabbs averages 5 in 20,he´ll get at least 2 more p/game.

And ,TIMVP,your boy Mahinmi sucked yesterday against The Euroleague´s MVP

Since when is Mahinmi my boy and what were Scola's stats in the game versus Macabbi?

Thanks.

[ArgSpursFan]

No, you already told us that Scola will be the most productive rebounder in the NBA next season. Why back down from there?

I said 8/7 dude.and stand by it :reading

[ChumpDumper]

I said 8/7 dude.and stand by it :readingIn 17 minutes. Why did you leave that out?

[ArgSpursFan]

whatever,even if he averages 1.7 rpg will be better tham ¨
¨ELY.¨for the same kind of money. :smokin

[ChumpDumper]

whatever,even if he averages 1.7 rpg will be better tham ¨
¨ELY.¨for the same kind of money. :smokinIf Scola is only going to play 10.7 minutes a game, I don't want to sign him in the first place -- although according to you, he'd get average five rebounds in that time.

[ChumpDumper]

whateverAnd it's not whatever, you stand by your entire statement or you don't.

Do you?

[ArgSpursFan]

And it's not whatever, you stand by your entire statement or you don't.

Do you?

I´ll just say it one more time,ok?

WHATEVER

[ArgSpursFan]

Since when is Mahinmi my boy and what were Scola's stats in the game versus Macabbi?

Thanks.

Even Duncan can have a bad game.
But yesterday Mahinmi got owned.Period

[ChumpDumper]

I´ll just say it one more time,ok?

WHATEVERYou can't even say you will back up your own statement you just made a couple of minutes ago?

All you had to say was "yes."

Is that really so difficult for you?

[ChumpDumper]

Even Duncan can have a bad game.
But yesterday Mahinmi got owned.PeriodYes, Scola owned the frontline of the Spurs' summer league reunion team.

It's just not that impressive, dude.

I stand by that entire statement.

[ArgSpursFan]

I´ll tell you what,chump(AKA Mr.Mcfly from the back to the future movie)
I belive he can put up 2 more boards tham Fabbs per game.but I can´t predict the future.
by NBA rules He´ll be able to.
If he does it or not in 17 mins.we´ll see about it.
But I can guarantee you that he´ll be better tham Bonner or Ely ,as far as inside scoring and rebounding.No questions about it

[ChumpDumper]

Nice backtracking.

[ArgSpursFan]

Yes, Scola owned the frontline of the Spurs' summer league reunion team.

It's just not that impressive, dude.

I stand by that entire statement.

you should´ve seen him play against Jarmine O´Niel, in Athens.That was IMPRESIVE dude.

[ChumpDumper]

I did. it was nice. Not enough for me to think he'll be the most productive rebounder in the NBA.

[ArgSpursFan]

I did. it was nice. Not enough for me to think he'll be the most productive rebounder in the NBA.

Sorry dude,you give me no choice.Have to say it again

WHATEVER

no hard feelings,ok?

[MmP]

In athens or in WC 2002?

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry dude,you give me no choice.Have to say it again

WHATEVER

no hard feelings,ok?Actually you could have just it was a wildly unrealistic prediction and revise it.

Why can't you do that?

[AFBlue]

.And?

Ely would probably cost more than $3M per year and would look to get a 3 or 4 year deal. He can also sign with any team in the league. As long as the Spurs have Scola's rights exclusively he's a talent/potential trade asset that's wasting away in Europe. About his trade value, I guarantee the Spurs will not get equal value for a player that has to be bought out of his current contract and hasn't proven anything in the NBA.

If he doesn't show anything then he's not worth re-signing and Scola is the guy...



What was the dollar amount of that premium? What is it for Scola

Not sure I understand what you're getting at? Scola's salary was set based on previous negotiations that fell through (because of buyout concerns). So there is no premium, he would cost about $3M per year.

[ChumpDumper]

Ely would probably cost more than $3M per year What is your reasoning for this? I don't think he has done anything to justify any GM's giving him more.
He can also sign with any team in the league.Who would give him more?
As long as the Spurs have Scola's rights exclusively he's a talent/potential trade asset that's wasting away in Europe. About his trade value, I guarantee the Spurs will not get equal value for a player that has to be bought out of his current contract and hasn't proven anything in the NBA.You mean NBA scouts might have doubts about Scola's effectiveness in the NBA? What side are you arguing again?
If he doesn't show anything then he's not worth re-signing and Scola is the guy...The ONLY guy?
Not sure I understand what you're getting at? Scola's salary was set based on previous negotiations that fell through (because of buyout concerns). So there is no premium, he would cost about $3M per year.So there was definitely a premium for Oberto, but none at all for Scola? That doesn't make much sense.

[SequSpur]

2nd round picks usually get the minimum salary..I think this has alot to do with why Scola is "wasting" away in Europe. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Does anyone remember the last second round pick that got more than the minimum?

[ChumpDumper]

I've also asked this before but I never saw an answer:

How much does Scola make now?

[AFBlue]

What is your reasoning for this?

He got over $3M for showing a glimpse of reaching his potential from one of the most penny-pinching organizations in the league. Teams with MLE are just looking for places to blow it, and Ely qualifies as one of those guys who stands to make more money than he probably should if he has a decent playoffs/last bit of the season. So it's based off of ludicrous spending on undeserving free agents by teams w/ MLE in the past...



You mean NBA scouts might have doubts about Scola's effectiveness in the NBA? What side are you arguing again?

My point, though counter-intuitive at first glance, basically is if the Spurs want to get "full value" for Scola in a trade, they have to gamble and bring him overseas. He may not be a long-term piece of the future, but if he comes over and proves he's a solid player it will up his value for future consideration on trades. If he comes over and is a "bust" then all the Spurs lose out on is his trade value going from moving up a few spots in the draft to Scola for cap space and a pick.


The ONLY guy?

Posted a list of upcoming free agents in another thread (though I can't recall which one) from ESPN.com, and there was no player of consequence that could be had for the $3M per yr it would take to get Scola that had his game. But by all means, if you have one I'd like to hear it....


So there was definitely a premium for Oberto, but none at all for Scola? That doesn't make much sense

Listen Chump, I don't know why Fabricio's market value was set at $2.5M per year and I have no idea why Scola's value is around $3M per year, so attach whatever amount you want to each player based on talent or "intangible" premium, I don't care. What I know is that Scola's previous contract discussions had his market value set at around $3M per year and I have seen nothing to the contrary. What is your point?

[AFBlue]

Does anyone remember the last second round pick that got more than the minimum?

It's a fair point that second round picks are not given long-term deals for much more than the minimum before they prove themselves in the NBA.

Scola is a unique case though, because he is a proven player, although not in the NBA.

Several other prospects from overseas have signed multi-million dollar contracts before ever proving themselves on NBA ground, so why should Scola's value be different just because he only has the right to negotiate with one team instead of 29?

[AFBlue]

2nd round picks usually get the minimum salary..I think this has alot to do with why Scola is "wasting" away in Europe. :lol

"Wasting away" in terms of value to the Spurs. What value is he while he's not in a Spurs uni and proving he can play at this level?

[ChumpDumper]

He got over $3M for showing a glimpse of reaching his potential from one of the most penny-pinching organizations in the league.He got $3 million by default because they couldn't agree to terms of a new contract. I don't know what he was asking for.
Teams with MLE are just looking for places to blow it, and Ely qualifies as one of those guys who stands to make more money than he probably should if he has a decent playoffs/last bit of the season. So it's based off of ludicrous spending on undeserving free agents by teams w/ MLE in the past...So which team would be falling all over themselves to give Ely more than $3 million?
My point, though counter-intuitive at first glance, basically is that the if the Spurs want to get "full value" for Scola in a trade, they have to gamble and bring him overseas. He may not be a long-term piece of the future, but if he comes over and proves he's a solid player it will up his value for future consideration on trades. If he comes over and is a "bust" then all the Spurs lose out on is his trade value going from moving up a few spots in the draft to Scola for cap space and a pick.Why would anyone want to give up cap space and a pick for him if he is a bust? That's counter common sense.
Posted a list of upcoming free agents in another thread (though I can't recall which one), and there was no player of consequence that could be had for the $3M per yr it would take to get Scola that had his game. But by all means, if you have one I'd like to hear it....We have Ely, Butler and three draft picks. Any one of these has the potential of working out as well as you say Scola might. There are your options. Five of them.
Listen Chump, I don't know why Fabricio's market value was set at $2.5M per year and I have no idea why Scola's value is around $3M per year, so attach whatever amount you want to each player based on talent or "intangible" premium, I don't care. What I know is that Scola's previous contract discussions had his market value set at around $3M per year and I have seen nothing to the contrary. What is your point?Actually Scola's agent set his value at $3 million a year. There is no market -- he's a draft pick. Can you find any second round draft pick that has been paid as much? Can you find any second round pick that has been paid more then the minimum?

[ChumpDumper]

It's a fair point that second round picks are not given long-term deals for much more than the minimum before they prove themselves in the NBA.

Scola is a unique case though, because he is a proven player, although not in the NBA.

Several other prospects from overseas have signed multi-million dollar contracts before ever proving themselves on NBA ground, so why should Scola's value be different just because he only has the right to negotiate with one team instead of 29?Why should Scola deserve more than Manu when he entered the league? He was much more proven with far fewer questions about his adaptability to the game.

This is the only way he can get into the NBA. If he wants to blame it all on his buyout, why the hell did he sign such a horrible contract in the first place?

BTW, does anyone actually know what he's being paid in Spain? Everyone talks about all the money he'd be passing up, but the difference between what Euro stars make and what board posters think they make has been historically huge.

[ploto]

With all the bigs under contract next year (five)- how is there room for Ian- especially if they bring Bonner back?

Tim, Elson, Fabricio, Horry, Butler, Bonner, and Ian-- and that doesn't even count Melvin. That's an awful lot of spots and money on big guys with all the small ball being played. Also assumes that Scola and Javtokas will never be Spurs. Spurs seem awfully heavy on big men and awfully light on the perimeter players they need the most- a SF and a back up PG.

[AFBlue]

So which team would be falling all over themselves to give Ely more than $3 million?

No team will "fall all over themselves" to sign a player for $3M though I appreciate the emphasis on how badly teams will "pine" for his services. Totally off the cuff thinking of a few teams that need a guy with a good combination of youth, experience, and ability to score in the low block...

Nets, Raptors, Bulls, Hawks, Rockets, T-Wolves, Kings, and Warriors. Out of that group I'd say the Nets need a guy like him the most. Point is, if he performs decent in the last few months/playoffs, he'll have interest from several teams in the league. Again if he doesn't, the he's probably not worth keeping around no matter what the price...


Why would anyone want to give up cap space and a pick for him if he is a bust? That's counter common sense.

Ok fine, get rid of the pick.


We have Ely, Butler and three draft picks. Any one of these has the potential of working out as well as you say Scola might. There are your options. Five of them.

The Spurs don't have Ely next year unless they choose to re-sign him. The Spurs may have three draft picks, but they also have legitimate needs elsewhere (namely backup PG and long SF) and those picks are low enough to assume that any player gotten with that pick would not be an immediate contributor (as Scola likely would be).

But hey Chump, let me give you this....

For the first time in our debate you've actually managed to post something solution-oriented rather than simply being critical. Congrats... :clap


Actually Scola's agent set his value at $3 million a year. There is no market -- he's a draft pick. Can you find any second round draft pick that has been paid as much? Can you find any second round pick that has been paid more then the minimum?

See the comments I made about his situation being unique. To recap, were he a FA, he could easily get the 3yr $10M deal. The Spurs do have a right to low-ball him as they exclusively own his rights, but he has just as much right to stay overseas, and as the situation prolongs his value dips lower and lower.

[ducks]

HE IS NOT A FA THOUGH HE IS A SECOND ROUND DRAFT PICK THAT IS TICKED HE WENT SECOND ROUND INSTEAD OF FIRST ROUND

scola is stupid signing 10 year contracts is stupid
sign 2-9 years with player option
if you sign a 10 years you are a IDIOT

[ducks]

does anyone know what is his buyout will be this offseason

[AFBlue]

Why should Scola deserve more than Manu when he entered the league? He was much more proven with far fewer questions about his adaptability to the game.


I understand the precedent he's trying to set, but I'm talking about value relative to other Euroleague players who have recently come from overseas (Garbajosa, Parker, Nocioni, Jasikevicius, etc.). Would you agree that the culture of bringing players from overseas has changed drastically in the past few years? When Manu came over, there wasn't a big infusion of talent from the Euroleague...he was a relatively new "breed". That market has evolved and, like it or not, the Spurs have to evolve with it.

Oh and Manu was a frail kid that liked to create contact leading to nagging injuries (still a problem he has to this day). I wouldn't that there were FAR fewer questions about Manu's ability to play in the NBA (Rudy Fernandez is receiving similar criticism). I also wouldn't say he was MUCH MORE proven than Scola overseas. Both of them have MVPs and both have won titles. Both are/were considered "superstars" in the league. I like it how you downplay Scola's importance with selectively placed vague words though...

[ducks]

the spurs have they offered oberta more then what they would have
a year or 2 ago
oberto can not even come to play every night even though he is paid to do
and oberto best thing is energy and when he does not bring that he is useless
spurs were burned with him
if you owened the spurs would that make you want to pay this scola 6 mle to see if he is going to do the same thing?

[ChumpDumper]

With all the bigs under contract next year (five)- how is there room for Ian- especially if they bring Bonner back?

Tim, Elson, Fabricio, Horry, Butler, Bonner, and Ian-- and that doesn't even count Melvin. That's an awful lot of spots and money on big guys with all the small ball being played. Also assumes that Scola and Javtokas will never be Spurs. Spurs seem awfully heavy on big men and awfully light on the perimeter players they need the most- a SF and a back up PG.I'm sure they are looking to trade Butler and possibly Oberto. Horry may or may not retire and I'm not totally sure his final year is fully guaranteed. Bonner is actually a free agent so I don't know how you can count him as being under contract.

That brings me back to my point about Scola vs. Ely -- if Ely goes for about $3.5 million or less, the Spurs won't need to use exception money on him. Nor would they with Bonner. Nor would Ian. That frees them up to use that money on other positions.

[ploto]

I did not count Bonner-- five without him. 7 with Bonner and Ian. 8 if you add Ely. Horry does not intend to retire, so the Spurs will have to force him out. As for trades, those are not guaranteed to happen. To say NOW that Ian is signing seems premature.

[AFBlue]

the spurs have they offered oberta more then what they would have
a year or 2 ago
oberto can not even come to play every night even though he is paid to do
and oberto best thing is energy and when he does not bring that he is useless
spurs were burned with him
if you owened the spurs would that make you want to pay this scola 6 mle to see if he is going to do the same thing?

Scola is not Oberto. Even OBERTO will tell you "I'm no Scola". Scola has a much better offensive game and much better athleticism than Oberto. He may not be dominant in the NBA at first, or ever possibly, but he's already better than Oberto without setting foot on an NBA court.

[ChumpDumper]

I understand the precedent he's trying to set, but I'm talking about value relative to other Euroleague players who have recently come from overseas (Garbajosa, Parker, Nocioni, Jasikevicius, etc.). Would you agree that the culture of bringing players from overseas has changed drastically in the past few years? When Manu came over, there wasn't a big infusion of talent from the Euroleague...he was a relatively new "breed". That market has evolved and, like it or not, the Spurs have to evolve with it.Not if they don't have to. They don't have to. That's the entire point of having a draft.
Oh and Manu was a frail kid that liked to create contact leading to nagging injuries (still a problem he has to this day). I wouldn't that there were FAR fewer questions about Manu's ability to play in the NBA (Rudy Fernandez is receiving similar criticism). I also wouldn't say he was MUCH MORE proven than Scola overseas. Both of them have MVPs and both have won titles. Both are/were considered "superstars" in the league. I like it how you downplay Scola's importance with selectively placed vague words though...I like how you downplay Manu's with similarly vague terms.

So everything is equal between them in your eyes, yet Scola deserves three times the money. I don't agree that the market has changed because Scola is not a free agent. If you can find me any second rounder that makes that kind of scratch, your point will have been made.

[ploto]

I do have one question. We know that first round picks are guaranteed a specific contract. Can they demand that whenever they want it. Can Ian say this summer- I want my contract now and the team has to sign him.

[ducks]

scola, ian and ely
scola does require the expection and most of it because scola thinks he is all that
like most posters know
backup point guard and long sf are two big weakness
if spurs sign scola they can not address those needs....
the draft picks will not be ready to contribute this year...
rather the spurs go into the tax is a differerent story but signing booner,ian and ely gives them the option if they want to

[ducks]

Scola is not Oberto. Even OBERTO will tell you "I'm no Scola". Scola has a much better offensive game and much better athleticism than Oberto. He may not be dominant in the NBA at first, or ever possibly, but he's already better than Oberto without setting foot on an NBA court.
damm I would hope so if you want to give him 6
oberto makes 2.5 :p:

[ChumpDumper]

I do have one question. We know that first round picks are guaranteed a specific contract. Can they demand that whenever they want it. Can Ian say this summer- I want my contract now and the team has to sign him.He can say that, and if the Spurs turn him down he can re-enter the draft the following summer -- provided he doesn't play professional basketball for a year. Otherwise the Spurs retain his rights.

[AFBlue]

Not if they don't have to. They don't have to. That's the entire point of having a draft.I like how you downplay Manu's with similarly vague terms.

You're right Chump, they don't have to (see how I conceded a point there...). My point is though, that if they remain inactive they do so to the detriment of the team as a whole. It's my opinion that Scola has more value to this team as a member than as a trade asset right now, and especially as a trade asset in the future. Since it's my opinion and you obviously feel differently, I think we'll just agree to disagree on Scola's true value.


I like how you downplay Manu's with similarly vague terms.

Well I knew you'd appreciate it.... :)



So everything is equal between them in your eyes, yet Scola deserves three times the money. I don't agree that the market has changed because Scola is not a free agent. If you can find me any second rounder that makes that kind of scratch, your point will have been made.

I didn't argue that Scola would not be setting a precedent. I conceded that point as well (see there I go again, giving credit where it's due). In terms of "actual value", yes I think Scola deserves $3M per year. If Garbajosa does, if Parker does, then I think Scola does. Arguing the fact that he's a second round pick is semantics.

Bottom Line: If the Spurs want Scola, they'll have to pony up $3M per year. If they think that's too much, he'll get the Spurs maybe 5 spots in the draft this year, and less each year thereafter.

[ploto]

How does it work that way-- isn't he guaranteed that money by the Spurs by virtue of their drafting him in the first round? Why should he have to wait for it? What's the point then of guarantees for first round picks if the team can decide they don't want him after all and then he has to sit out a year to ever get into the NBA? Seems if the team who drafts you with a first round pick won't sign you then you should be a FA.

[AFBlue]

damm I would hope so if you want to give him 6
oberto makes 2.5 :p:

Never said 6 mil ducks. $3M per year. The only "$6M" figure mentioned was Chump's hypothetical that the Spurs would have to eat the second and third years of Scola's contract if he ended up being a bust (2yrs * $3M/yr).

[ChumpDumper]

Bottom Line: If the Spurs want Scola, they'll have to pony up $3M per year. If they think that's too much, he'll get the Spurs maybe 5 spots in the draft this year, and less each year thereafter.I think if Scola wants to play for the Spurs, he'll have to take less -- and since he was a #57 or whatever, it's not an enormous loss.

[ducks]

scola was not drafted in the first round
players know the rules before they enter the draft
if a team picks them they have to be paid a certain amount of money and years
the team does not have to sign them right away though
if the player wants to be signed he can tell the team that
then he can not play pro ball for a year then he can be a fa

[ChumpDumper]

How does it work that way-- isn't he guaranteed that money by the Spurs by virtue of their drafting him in the first round? Why should he have to wait for it? What's the point then of guarantees for first round picks if the team can decide they don't want him after all and then he has to sit out a year to ever get into the NBA? Seems if the team who drafts you with a first round pick won't sign you then you should be a FA.You can be a free agent. Just don't play pro basketball for a year. The rookie scale was set up to keep teams from spending hundreds of millions of dollars on unproven players, not as an automatic reward for being drafted.

[ducks]

Never said 6 mil ducks. $3M per year. The only "$6M" figure mentioned was Chump's hypothetical that the Spurs would have to eat the second and third years of Scola's contract if he ended up being a bust (2yrs * $3M/yr).
will scola be happy with 3?

spurs will see what they do in the playoffs and then see what the biggest needs are then
if it is rebounding
scola does not solve that problem
a trade for evans solves it better

[ploto]

It still makes no sense. A team drafts a guy with a first round pick that comes with it a guaranteed amonut of money- but the team never actually has to give the guy the money.

[ducks]

do you not love the rules?

[ploto]

You can be a free agent. Just don't play pro basketball for a year. The rookie scale was set up to keep teams from spending hundreds of millions of dollars on unproven players, not as an automatic reward for being drafted.
I knew that year was the rule for second round picks- but I though first round picks were guaranteed their contracts. Why did people make such a big deal then about the Spurs drafting Ian with a first round pick because they never have to bring him in either??

[ChumpDumper]

It still makes no sense. A team drafts a guy with a first round pick that comes with it a guaranteed amonut of money- but the team never actually has to give the guy the money.No owner would allow for their team to be forced to take on a draft pick it turns out they didn't want.

[AFBlue]

That brings me back to my point about Scola vs. Ely -- if Ely goes for about $3.5 million or less, the Spurs won't need to use exception money on him. Nor would they with Bonner. Nor would Ian. That frees them up to use that money on other positions.

Gotta admit Chump, this point did not get wasted on me. Provided the Spurs think Ely can give the production that Scola likely would, it does help that he's currently under contract and his future salary (if given another contract) would not count against the MLE.

Now you're speaking my language....opportunity cost. The cost would be giving up a better player IMO (Scola), but the benefit would be retaining the $3M the Spurs would've spent on Scola, therefore whatever player could be had with that money.

See, admitting that other posters have some merit in their points does not diminish the credibility of your own points. Unless you now think that I am somehow more stupid than I was when I first submitted my posts...

[ChumpDumper]

I knew that year was the rule for second round picks- but I though first round picks were guaranteed their contracts. Why did people make such a big deal then about the Spurs drafting Ian with a first round pick because they never have to bring him in either??I don't know if they made that big of a deal out of it, but the difference is there is much less latitude for negotiation on both sides (within a few % of the scale amount) and it's much easier to retain a first rounder after the scale contract (at least it was at the time of that draft).

[ducks]

I knew that year was the rule for second round picks- but I though first round picks were guaranteed their contracts. Why did people make such a big deal then about the Spurs drafting Ian with a first round pick because they never have to bring him in either??
people expect first round draft picks to be studs like manu or parker

players in the first round draft pick are suppose to be better then later ones
people here want rings and nothing less

[AFBlue]

will scola be happy with 3?

spurs will see what they do in the playoffs and then see what the biggest needs are then
if it is rebounding
scola does not solve that problem
a trade for evans solves it better

There's nothing to suggest that Scola wants anymore than $3M per year in any article I've read. If you have more info, please enlighten me.

The Spurs do need rebounding. They also need a credible scorer with low-post skills to replace Duncan when he comes out...Scola fills that one.

A trade for Evans huh? And who do the Nuggets want in return? Also, did you happen to see how ineffective and God-awful Evans was on the offensive end the other night? Yikes...

[ducks]

the advantage of a first round draft pick is the player knows what he is going to make and even if spurs make him play overseason and blows up and becomes better he can only make what the rules say..................

[ChumpDumper]

Now you're speaking my language....opportunity cost. The cost would be giving up a better player IMO (Scola), but the benefit would be retaining the $3M the Spurs would've spent on Scola, therefore whatever player could be had with that money.That's the sticking point. I don't know if Scola is any better than Ely in the NBA.
See, admitting that other posters have some merit in their points does not diminish the credibility of your own points. Unless you now think that I am somehow more stupid than I was when I first submitted my posts...Never said you were stupid. You've brought up many good points -- I'm just not convinced Scola is going to be all that great.

[ducks]

There's nothing to suggest that Scola wants anymore than $3M per year in any article I've read. If you have more info, please enlighten me.

The Spurs do need rebounding. They also need a credible scorer with low-post skills to replace Duncan when he comes out...Scola fills that one.

A trade for Evans huh? And who do the Nuggets want in return? Also, did you happen to see how ineffective and God-awful Evans was on the offensive end the other night? Yikes...


I agree with that
I am for bringing him over at a decent cost
manu and scola OFF THE BENCH would be great

[ploto]

Oh, I know a reason to use a first round pick is that Ian's salary would be set-and really cheap. I just thought it meant that eventually they had to pay it. But I will trust that you are right and they never have to pay it. He is in no better position then than Scola with regards to having any say so about coming.

[AFBlue]

I know it's the case, but I'm still not sure I understand why...

Even though Scola is a draft pick of the Spurs, the salary he would receive would go against the MLE? I understand second rounders aren't given guaranteed contracts, but as the team has exclusivity to the player's rights, should that player in-effect be counted as already "on the team" therefore not count against the MLE?

I guess this goes back to all second rounders (to this point) only asking for min salary...which you can sign as many players as you want to without limit. Scola being the difference.

[ploto]

the advantage of a first round draft pick is the player knows what he is going to make
But apparently, he never may make it.

[ducks]

teams that pick players in the first round and not play them or sign them to contract will get have their scouts fired

[ChumpDumper]

I know it's the case, but I'm still not sure I understand why...

Even though Scola is a draft pick of the Spurs, the salary he would receive would go against the MLE? I understand second rounders aren't given guaranteed contracts, but as the team has exclusivity to the player's rights, should that player in-effect be counted as already "on the team" therefore not count against the MLE?

I guess this goes back to all second rounders (to this point) only asking for min salary...which you can sign as many players as you want to without limit. Scola being the difference.Second rounders can be given any contract according to the cap space or exceptions a team has available to them. I only know of two second rounders who made the minimum: Manu (lower lever exception) and Lampe (part of the MLE).

[AFBlue]

That's the sticking point. I don't know if Scola is any better than Ely in the NBA.

Never said you were stupid. You've brought up many good points -- I'm just not convinced Scola is going to be all that great.

I'm not sure if he's going to be all that great either, but I cringe at the thought that a guy so dominant in the Euroleague is being compared to Melvin Ely, a 12th man type, in the NBA. Is the athleticism and talent gap between NBA frontline players and Euroleague frontline players really THAT huge?

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not sure if he's going to be all that great either, but I cringe at the thought that a guy so dominant in the Euroleague is being compared to Melvin Ely, a 12th man type, in the NBA.I compared him to Marcus Fizer since they play in the same league in Spain, and Scola was not substantially better.
Is the athleticism and talent gap between NBA frontline players and Euroleague frontline players really THAT huge?Well, it's still pretty big.

[AFBlue]

I compared him to Marcus Fizer since they play in the same league in Spain, and Scola was not substantially better.Well, it's still pretty big.

Alright man, well I'm winding down (it's approaching midnight on the east coast), but I enjoyed the spirited debate. Even if we don't see eye-to-eye, I appreciate your input.

Bottom Line: I will revisit the Spurs off-season this fall and if Scola isn't on the team I won't be crushed (unlike Args), but I will be pissed if the Spurs do something of little value (like sign oldie Grant Hill for $3M) with the money that could've been used for Scola. If no Scola, then I want to see a decent backup PG (Knight?) and a young, athletic, long 3 that can rebound and play D (Travis Outlaw is the reasonable dream).

Goodnight bro... :fro

[ChumpDumper]

Right now, it looks like the draft is light on point guard talent, so I'd look to draft PF and SF types while looking for a PG in free agency or through trades. Scola's rights might come in handy there.

[Mr. Body]

If I were Scola and the Spurs don't do anything with his rights this summer, I'd consider sitting out a year in order to jar away his rights to do anything he wants. He stands to probably make more money in the long term that way.

[ChumpDumper]

If I were Scola and the Spurs don't do anything with his rights this summer, I'd consider sitting out a year in order to jar away his rights to do anything he wants. He stands to probably make more money in the long term that way.I think if his Euro contract ends soon, he'll probably make as much or a little more than he wants in the US anyway, and he can probably get a longer deal.

[ArgSpursFan]

Why should Scola deserve more than Manu when he entered the league? He was much more proven with far fewer questions about his adaptability to the game.

This is the only way he can get into the NBA. If he wants to blame it all on his buyout, why the hell did he sign such a horrible contract in the first place?

BTW, does anyone actually know what he's being paid in Spain? Everyone talks about all the money he'd be passing up, but the difference between what Euro stars make and what board posters think they make has been historically huge.

wrong
Scola is much more proven now with a gold medal and 2nd.place in Indianapolis and 4 rd place in Japan tham Manu was at the begining of 2002.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry dude, you overrate FIBA almost as much as you do Pau.

[ArgSpursFan]

Sorry dude, you overrate FIBA almost as much as you do Pau.

well,in Indi 2002 , Athens and Japan the US played with NBA talent.
Lebron,Carmelo,Jarmine,TD,Arenas,etc,etc,etc,
and they got busted.
yeap,you are right FIBA is ¨too overrated¨ :fro

[WalterBenitez]

FIBA > NBA under FIBA's rules :rolleyes

[ArgSpursFan]

FIBA > NBA under FIBA's rules :rolleyes

That´s what I´ve been trying to explain for over 8 pages in this thread.FIBA rules are complicated and keep players scoring and rebounding lower tham NBA rules.
The reason why is that NBA,was created as a show,and in order to be a show,it has to have big scoring games and has to be spectacular.
FIBA rules are more like the NCAA rules,they´re not the same but they look alike alot.
That´s why Scola and many other great FIBA players average less points and rebounds in Europe.

[ChumpDumper]

That´s why Scola and many other great FIBA players average less points and rebounds in Europe.That's why Scola will be the #1 most productive rebounder in the NBA if he plays next season, right?

[ChumpDumper]

well,in Indi 2002 , Athens and Japan the US played with NBA talent.
Lebron,Carmelo,Jarmine,TD,Arenas,etc,etc,etc,
and they got busted.
yeap,you are right FIBA is ¨too overrated¨ :froExactly, equating FIBA with the NBA is very overrated. It's a different game just as you said, and doing well in one doesn't mean you'll do well in the other.

[ArgSpursFan]

That's why Scola will be the #1 most productive rebounder in the NBA if he plays next season, right?

Well,For what I´ve been seeing from Other Argentinians in the NBA,like Ginobili,Nocioni,Delfino and herrmann I have no doubt in my mind.
Reason why is they bring to the court something I don´t see often in NBA.That would be¨BIG BALLS AND HEART¨,besides the other good things they bring to the table.
So,yes he will.

[ArgSpursFan]

Exactly, equating FIBA with the NBA is very overrated. It's a different game just as you said, and doing well in one doesn't mean you'll do well in the other.
that´s right.YOU SAID IT FINALLY.
the diference is that NBA is easier tham FIBA for players to shine as individuals,FIBA is all about team work.
We finally agreed on something Chump.This is a special day.

[ChumpDumper]

Well,For what I´ve been seeing from Other Argentinians in the NBA,like Ginobili,Nocioni,Delfino and herrmann I have no doubt in my mind.You have no doubt in your mind that Scola will be the #1 most productive rebounder in the NBA because other Argentinians have played in the NBA and have not been the #1 most productive rebounders in the NBA.
So,yes he will.Do you stand by that statement?

[ChumpDumper]

that´s right.YOU SAID IT FINALLY.I've said it all along. You just caught a clue for once. A special day indeed.

[diego]

well,in Indi 2002 , Athens and Japan the US played with NBA talent.
Lebron,Carmelo,Jarmine,TD,Arenas,etc,etc,etc,
and they got busted.
yeap,you are right FIBA is ¨too overrated¨ :fro

tiene razon Aikita, te pasaste a caca loco. una cosa es tenerle fe a los nuestros, otra cosa es actuar como el representante y ponerte a vender los jugadores, mas encima con argumentos pobres. Como si estos gringos fueran los que hacen los fichajes! Primero que nada, te advierto que hay varios gringos aqui que se dedican a llevar la contra en argumentos, y les encanta agarrar algun fanatico que argumenta con el corazon en vez de la cabeza. te estan dejando en ridiculo. y ademas, les estas regalando todos los argumentos con las boludeces que dices. el otro dia acusaste a un puerto riqueño mestizo de racista, ahora citas partidos en atenas cuando fueron en el mundial del 02, y ademas demuestras que no entiendes para nada los contratos de la NBA. vos entendes que si Scola viene, que le va costar adaptarse, que no va tener el mismo protagonismo que en europa? acaso crees que para manu y chapu fue facil llegar a donde estan ahora? quieres que san antonio contrate a magnano, pepe, y el chapu y se convierta en la seleccion argentina? dejate de joder hermano, estas hablando por el culo.

al final sos mas arrogante y mas cerrado que los gringos que acusas de soberbios.

[ArgSpursFan]

You have no doubt in your mind that Scola will be the #1 most productive rebounder in the NBA because other Argentinians have played in the NBA and have not been the #1 most productive rebounders in the NBA.Do you stand by that statement?

The only Argentina´s Big guy In NBA is Oberto,and Like I said before and manu people thinks Oberto is not even half of a good player Scola is.
So,yes,I stand by what I´ve said.
BTW,it´s easier the transition from FIBA to NBA tham from NBA to FIBA.

[ChumpDumper]

BTW, Spanish isn't a secret code on these boards for us gringos.

It's Slovenian.

[ChumpDumper]

The only Argentina´s Big guy In NBA is Oberto,and Like I said before and manu people thinks Oberto is not even half of a good player Scola is.Half the rebounder?
So,yes,I stand by what I´ve said.I would listen to your code-writing friend in this instance.
BTW,it´s easier the transition from FIBA to NBA tham from NBA to FIBA.Really? Why is Marcus Fizer putting up almost identical numbers to Scola in his first year in the ACB, numbers that are higher than he ever got in the NBA?

[ArgSpursFan]

tiene razon Aikita, te pasaste a caca loco. una cosa es tenerle fe a los nuestros, otra cosa es actuar como el representante y ponerte a vender los jugadores, mas encima con argumentos pobres. Como si estos gringos fueran los que hacen los fichajes! Primero que nada, te advierto que hay varios gringos aqui que se dedican a llevar la contra en argumentos, y les encanta agarrar algun fanatico que argumenta con el corazon en vez de la cabeza. te estan dejando en ridiculo. y ademas, les estas regalando todos los argumentos con las boludeces que dices. el otro dia acusaste a un puerto riqueño mestizo de racista, ahora citas partidos en atenas cuando fueron en el mundial del 02, y ademas demuestras que no entiendes para nada los contratos de la NBA. vos entendes que si Scola viene, que le va costar adaptarse, que no va tener el mismo protagonismo que en europa? acaso crees que para manu y chapu fue facil llegar a donde estan ahora? quieres que san antonio contrate a magnano, pepe, y el chapu y se convierta en la seleccion argentina? dejate de joder hermano, estas hablando por el culo.

al final sos mas arrogante y mas cerrado que los gringos que acusas de soberbios.

me gustaria saber cuanto hace q seguis la NBA,por mi parte la sigo desde el 84,no desde q Argentinos llegaron a la NBA.Y aparte si me equivoco en nombrar un partido q fue en el mudial,con respecto a uno de olimpiada,lo hago porque no estoy fijandome las estadisticas y las fechas exactas de los partidos en otras paginas de internet.Y si no te gusta no leas lo que tengo q decir.
Aparte a mi no me molesta q me lleven la contra y no es mi intencion agrandar a nadie,al contrario si fuera por mi Oberto se podria ir a vivir a Cordoba en este momento y dejar de dar lastima en la NBA.
Asi que si no te molesta dejame de romper las pelotas .
y si te molesta tanto lo q digo nos sacamos la bronca y listo.Yo vivo en Orlando 6 meses y 6 meses en Arg,asi que decime donde estas asi te rompo el alma y nos sacamos la bronca,ok?

[diego]

solo te advierto que estas dando lastima, por lo mal que escribes en ingles pense que seria por un problema de comunicacion pero por lo visto sos 100% boludo en ambos idiomas.

y vivo en santiago de chile, cuando quieras veni para aca macho, si no te aviso la proxima vez que voy a Bs As.

**

I'm not trying to hide anything by writing in spanish, just thought the basketball genius might understand it better. unfortunately he's just as idiotic in spanish as he is in english.

**

one game against pau orthez is a blip in scola's career. I also think he is one of the spurs best assets, be it as a tradebait or as a reinforcement, but have already said my piece and think that this summer the FO will use him as one or the other in order to improve the team.

but please ArgSpursFan, continue to enlighten all us ignorant fools with your knowledge of basketball and contracts, at least you are providing cheap entertainment

[ArgSpursFan]

solo te advierto que estas dando lastima, por lo mal que escribes en ingles pense que seria por un problema de comunicacion pero por lo visto sos 100% boludo en ambos idiomas.

y vivo en santiago de chile, cuando quieras veni para aca macho, si no te aviso la proxima vez que voy a Bs As.

**

I'm not trying to hide anything by writing in spanish, just thought the basketball genius might understand it better. unfortunately he's just as idiotic in spanish as he is in english.

**

one game against pau orthez is a blip in scola's career. I also think he is one of the spurs best assets, be it as a tradebait or as a reinforcement, but have already said my piece and think that this summer the FO will use him as one or the other in order to improve the team.

but please ArgSpursFan, continue to enlighten all us ignorant fools with your knowledge of basketball and contracts, at least you are providing cheap entertainment

Just to your ¨knowlegde¨,Scola isn´t coming to the NBA unless He gets paid more tham what he really worths,cause of his Buy out with TAU Ceramica.And that´s been the issue discussed in this forum for a while.It´s not that he worths 3M p/year in his roockie season,it´s just that he needs to overcome the issue of buying out the reminding of his contract.
Chileno wevon!!!!de me decis q sos Argento vo Wevon??

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not trying to hide anything by writing in spanish, just thought the basketball genius might understand it better. unfortunately he's just as idiotic in spanish as he is in english.:lol

I thought you were trying to spare him some embarrassment.

I also think he could help. I just happen to think he is overhyped and that he isn't the only option going forward.

[ArgSpursFan]

I'm not trying to hide anything by writing in spanish, just thought the basketball genius might understand it better. unfortunately he's just as idiotic in spanish as he is in english.

one game against pau orthez is a blip in scola's career. I also think he is one of the spurs best assets, be it as a tradebait or as a reinforcement, but have already said my piece and think that this summer the FO will use him as one or the other in order to improve the team.

but please ArgSpursFan, continue to enlighten all us ignorant fools with your knowledge of basketball and contracts, at least you are providing cheap entertainment

you forgot to mention that you called the US guys in the forum:Fucking Gringos who think they know everything and Wanna downplay everybody.(you can actually translate the whole statement )

Just for the record,i just wanna say that I may think diferent sometimes,or just have a diferent point of view tham some people here.but I try to respect everyone and at the same time wanna be respected.

[ChumpDumper]

you forgot to mention that you called the US guys in the forum:Fucking Gringos who think they know everything and Wanna downplay everybody.(you can actually translate the whole statement )I did. That's a fair assessment.

[ArgSpursFan]

I did. That's a fair assessment.

I wasn´t actually talking about you.
I know how you are,so I didn´t even think about you.
I just don´t want other people geting disrespected.(not you)

[Athenea]

tiene razon Aikita, te pasaste a caca loco. una cosa es tenerle fe a los nuestros, otra cosa es actuar como el representante y ponerte a vender los jugadores, mas encima con argumentos pobres. Como si estos gringos fueran los que hacen los fichajes! Primero que nada, te advierto que hay varios gringos aqui que se dedican a llevar la contra en argumentos, y les encanta agarrar algun fanatico que argumenta con el corazon en vez de la cabeza. te estan dejando en ridiculo. y ademas, les estas regalando todos los argumentos con las boludeces que dices. el otro dia acusaste a un puerto riqueño mestizo de racista, ahora citas partidos en atenas cuando fueron en el mundial del 02, y ademas demuestras que no entiendes para nada los contratos de la NBA. vos entendes que si Scola viene, que le va costar adaptarse, que no va tener el mismo protagonismo que en europa? acaso crees que para manu y chapu fue facil llegar a donde estan ahora? quieres que san antonio contrate a magnano, pepe, y el chapu y se convierta en la seleccion argentina? dejate de joder hermano, estas hablando por el culo.

al final sos mas arrogante y mas cerrado que los gringos que acusas de soberbios.
I don't see the point of your statements.
We all know who is who around here. Are u playing the tourist guide role? Devil's advocate?
BTW...your Spanish is atrocious. What's your excuse?

[Kori Ellis]

....
Just for the record,i just wanna say that I may think diferent sometimes,or just have a diferent point of view tham some people here.but I try to respect everyone and at the same time wanna be respected.

:lol You don't try to respect anyone. You refer to several people as "boy" when you talk to them.

[SequSpur]

what is english to hard to ask for? shit.

[Cherry]

Just for the record,i just wanna say that I may think diferent sometimes,or just have a diferent point of view tham some people here.but I try to respect everyone and at the same time wanna be respected.

No respetás a nadie = you have no repect.

[ArgSpursFan]

:lol You don't try to respect anyone. You refer to several people as "boy" when you talk to them.

That´s your opinion.and I don´t think to call BOY somebody is a bad thing.I´ve been called by worst things in here,while YOU,being the moderator ,have been playing the ¨nothing happened here¨game when one of your ¨friends¨says something to me or to anybody else in here in a bad way,but When I say something I´m the bad guy,huh?

[ChumpDumper]

You're a bad boy, boy.

[ArgSpursFan]

You're a bad boy, boy.

At least I AM A BOY,who stands by what he says.
Girl!(is that make you feel any better now?)

[ChumpDumper]

At least I AM A BOY,who stands by what he says.
Girl!(is that make you feel any better now?)Nah, you said "whatever" three times and then finally embraced your claim that Scola will rebound at a rate of 19.76 per 48 minutes in the NBA when he rebounded at a rate of 9.95 per 48 minutes in the Euroleague regular season.

That speaks for itself.

That you now stand by it after having the chance to consider how ridiculous a prediction it was also speaks for itself.

Finally your trying to say it's only the FIBA rules that are holding him back from effectively doubling his rebounding productivity and becoming the next Dennis Rodman on the boards says it all.

[AFBlue]

I leave for 16 hours and this is what the Scola debate devolves into? Back to the topic, NBAtv replayed Tau's first round game versus Maccabi, so I got to see Scola in action some more. I see where some of the questions about his game come from, but overall it didn't make me change my thoughts on whether he should be brought over next year.

[ArgSpursFan]

I leave for 16 hours and this is what the Scola debate devolves into? Back to the topic, NBAtv replayed Tau's first round game versus Maccabi, so I got to see Scola in action some more. I see where some of the questions about his game come from, but overall it didn't make me change my thoughts on whether he should be brought over next year.

I know,that´s why my threads are so contructive.(9 pages already)
BTW,Good to see you back Tony(I´m trying to be more polite now)

[leemajors]

Just to your ¨knowlegde¨,Scola isn´t coming to the NBA unless He gets paid more tham what he really worths,cause of his Buy out with TAU Ceramica.And that´s been the issue discussed in this forum for a while.It´s not that he worths 3M p/year in his roockie season,it´s just that he needs to overcome the issue of buying out the reminding of his contract.
Chileno wevon!!!!de me decis q sos Argento vo Wevon??

or he could do what most players do when they come over - take out a loan and make payments, pay the rest off when they get their second, bigger contract.

[ArgSpursFan]

or he could do what most players do when they come over - take out a loan and make payments, pay the rest off when they get their second, bigger contract.

I think He´ll let the spurs FO take that loan to buy his contract out.
It´ll worth the effort of the monthly payments(like a brand new car)

[leemajors]

I think He´ll let the spurs FO take that loan to buy his contract out.
It´ll worth the monthly payments(like a brand new car)

spurs can only pay a limited amount of the buyout, this has been discussed repeatedly before. it's under $500k what they can contribute towards it, but chump or bruno could tell you the exact figure. do you have any idea what you're talking about?

[ArgSpursFan]

spurs can only pay a limited amount of the buyout, this has been discussed repeatedly before. it's under $500k what they can contribute towards it, but chump or bruno could tell you the exact figure. do you have any idea what you're talking about?

but,are you considering that Horry is retiring at the end of the season?+If they sign Scola they won´t need Ely ,who costs another 3M p/year.

[ChumpDumper]

I think He´ll let the spurs FO take that loan to buy his contract out.
It´ll worth the effort of the monthly payments(like a brand new car)Yeah, it would be totally worth having Scola's contract voided, losing his rights and draft picks for a few years for circumventing the collective bargaining agreement. You should work for the Timberwolves.

[ArgSpursFan]

i´d just switch scola for Ely(if Ely don´t meet the expectations this year)

[ChumpDumper]

but,are you considering that Horry is retiring at the end of the season?+If they sign Scola they won´t need Ely ,who costs another 3M p/year.Says who?

And even if he does cost $3 million, the Spurs won't need to use exception money to sign him.

[ArgSpursFan]

Yeah, it would be totally worth having Scola's contract voided, losing his rights and draft picks for a few years for circumventing the collective bargaining agreement. You should work for the Timberwolves.

I already have a good job.So no thanks

[ChumpDumper]

i´d just switch scola for Ely(if Ely don´t meet the expectations this year)Giving a cursory look at the draft, I would be more inclined to use the exception money to secure a point guard or swingman. There looks like there is alot of big man talent in the draft. Conditions could certainly change.

[objective]

bottom line is there are some well-reasoned takes on why Scola shouldn't be signed, such as whether his game will translate to the NBA, whether the Spurs have bigger priorities, Scola's attitude towards the Spurs FO and vice-versa, etc . . . all quite reasonable.

But if someone thinks Scola can help the Spurs win (as I do), then signing him for cheap (relative to the average NBA salary) as he's allegedly been willing to sign for makes sense.

Other nonsense about making him the highest paid 2nd rounder in history or whether he gets more than Manu got in 02 and other crap is just trivial bullshit. If that kind of stuff mattered than the Spurs should have never signed Ginobili to a deal that was worth so many times more than George Gervin's in the 80's, after all, you can't pay a guard more than Gervin if he's never led the league in scoring! None of that is worth taking into consideration. All that matters is whether he will be a net plus at a partial-MLE price. The Spurs should be trying to compete and win a title not win the Sporting News fantasy challenge game using a salary index.

If the Spurs think Scola can help with his scoring, hustle, etc . . . the Spurs should sign him for the 3/9-10 he's asking.

If they think he's too small/slow/weak/ill-tempered . . . then they shouldn't sign him and should leave him to tool around Spain or trade his rights, doesn't matter which in the end.

[ArgSpursFan]

Says who?

And even if he does cost $3 million, the Spurs won't need to use exception money to sign him.

I don´t think Ely will meet the spurs expectations.He never showed nothing to the Clipps or the Bobcats.

[ChumpDumper]

I don´t think Ely will meet the spurs expectations.He never showed nothing to the Clipps or the Bobcats.I don't think Scola will meet your expectations. He never came close to the rebounding production you have predicted for him for any team.

[ArgSpursFan]

bottom line is there are some well-reasoned takes on why Scola shouldn't be signed, such as whether his game will translate to the NBA, whether the Spurs have bigger priorities, Scola's attitude towards the Spurs FO and vice-versa, etc . . . all quite reasonable.

But if someone thinks Scola can help the Spurs win (as I do), then signing him for cheap (relative to the average NBA salary) as he's allegedly been willing to sign for makes sense.

Other nonsense about making him the highest paid 2nd rounder in history or whether he gets more than Manu got in 02 and other crap is just trivial bullshit. If that kind of stuff mattered than the Spurs should have never signed Ginobili to a deal that was worth so many times more than George Gervin's in the 80's, after all, you can't pay a guard more than Gervin if he's never led the league in scoring! None of that is worth taking into consideration. All that matters is whether he will be a net plus at a partial-MLE price. The Spurs should be trying to compete and win a title not win the Sporting News fantasy challenge game using a salary index.

If the Spurs think Scola can help with his scoring, hustle, etc . . . the Spurs should sign him for the 3/9-10 he's asking.

If they think he's too small/slow/weak/ill-tempered . . . then they shouldn't sign him and should leave him to tool around Spain or trade his rights, doesn't matter which in the end.

I couldn´t agree more.
And If the spurs feel like he is not needed,just trade him or let him go.He actually trusted the spurs FO when he got drafted,and the spurs FO knew that He had a big and large contract back them when they acquired his NBA rights.

[ArgSpursFan]

I don't think Scola will meet your expectations. He never came close to the rebounding production you have predicted for him for any team.

Yeah,US team thought the same when they played Arg,and them got busted.Good point chump.

[leemajors]

Yeah,US team thought the same when they played Arg,and them got busted.Good point chump.

i don't think that comment could be less germane to the discussion.

[ArgSpursFan]

i don't think that comment could be less germane to the discussion.

I´m just giving the guy some credit.
And I didn´t metion that he guarded Dirk better tham any NBA player.

[ChumpDumper]

I couldn´t agree more.
And If the spurs feel like he is not needed,just trade him or let him go.He actually trusted the spurs FO when he got drafted,and the spurs FO knew that He had a big and large contract back them when they acquired his NBA rights.They didn't know exactly how big it was going to be or for how long.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah,US team thought the same when they played Arg,and them got busted.Good point chump.The US thought he wouldn't rebound at a rate of 20 per 48 minutes?

Did he rebound at a rate of 20 per 48 minutes? Or 17 per 40 minutes?

[ArgSpursFan]

They didn't know exactly how big it was going to be or for how long.

So ,you wanna make me belive that the San Antionio Spurs Organization didn´t know how big or large was the contract of a player that they´ve been watching for at least 1 year,before he got drafted????
Come on Chump.

[ArgSpursFan]

The US thought he wouldn't rebound at a rate of 20 per 48 minutes?

Did he rebound at a rate of 20 per 48 minutes? Or 17 per 40 minutes?

nope,he just owned a guy called O´niel.that´s all he did,and whas enough to beat them.of course +Manu+Nocioni etc ect

[ChumpDumper]

So ,you wanna make me belive that the San Antionio Spurs Organization didn´t know how big or large was the contract of a player that they´ve been watching for at least 1 year,before he got drafted????Yeah.

The NBA buyout in Scola's initial contract with Tau was a staggering 12 million euros or $14.5million. The team later revised the contract to give Scola a much more affordable buyout based on where he was drafted in the first round. Yet because the deal never specified anything about being selected in the second round, Tau officials claim Scola must pay the original buyout if he wants to leave for the NBA or wait until his contract expires in three years when the buyout is reduced to $1 million.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA071505.1D.BKNspurs.oberto.6c5ecb8d.html

And:

Luis Scola will spend at least one more season with his team in Spain, according to a report in Lanacion.com of Argentina.

Scola, a member of the Argentina Olympic team, was picked by the Spurs in the 2002 draft. His team in Spain wants $4 million to buy out his current contract, according to Joe Reinagel of KENS 5 Eyewitness News.

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/archives/2006/07/report_scola_wo.html

So it looks like the terms of his buyout have changed at least a couple of time since he has been drafted.

[ChumpDumper]

nope,he just owned a guy called O´niel.You didn't say that.

[ArgSpursFan]

Yeah.

The NBA buyout in Scola's initial contract with Tau was a staggering 12 million euros or $14.5million. The team later revised the contract to give Scola a much more affordable buyout based on where he was drafted in the first round. Yet because the deal never specified anything about being selected in the second round, Tau officials claim Scola must pay the original buyout if he wants to leave for the NBA or wait until his contract expires in three years when the buyout is reduced to $1 million.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA071505.1D.BKNspurs.oberto.6c5ecb8d.html

And:

Luis Scola will spend at least one more season with his team in Spain, according to a report in Lanacion.com of Argentina.

Scola, a member of the Argentina Olympic team, was picked by the Spurs in the 2002 draft. His team in Spain wants $4 million to buy out his current contract, according to Joe Reinagel of KENS 5 Eyewitness News.

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/archives/2006/07/report_scola_wo.html

So it looks like the terms of his buyout have changed at least a couple of time since he has been drafted.


ok,so they knew the buy out was big,we agree on that?
The thing was that the had this agreement back in 2002 that they´d just let him go to the NBA for a Millon bucks buyout.
So,why didn´t the spurs bring him in back them?
They waited and Now TAU knows It´ll be hard to replace him.

And the contract never changed,the buyout did,but that´s just a market price.The guy has developed his game since 2002 till now.hasn´t he?

[regio]

So how does Scola compare to Ginobili,Nocioni, and Delfino.
Ginobili>Nocioni>Scola>Delfino
or
Ginobili>Nocioni>Delfino>Scola

[ArgSpursFan]

So how does Scola compare to Ginobili,Nocioni, and Delfino.
Ginobili>Nocioni>Scola>Delfino
or
Ginobili>Nocioni>Delfino>Scola

i´d say
Ginobili=Scola=Nocioni>Delfino(But he is still young)

[Cant_Be_Faded]

how the fuck has this thread gone on so long

[AFBlue]

So wait...

If Horry retires before his contract is up, do the Spurs get granted an "exception" for the full amount of his contract ($4M), or just the guaranteed portion, which is considerably less? How does his potential retirement effect the MLE and overall cap figure for next year? Just curious...

[ChumpDumper]

ok,so they knew the buy out was big,we agree on that?
The thing was that the had this agreement back in 2002 that they´d just let him go to the NBA for a Millon bucks buyout.If he was drafted in the first round.
So,why didn´t the spurs bring him in back them?Because they didn't draft him in the first round and Tau wanted the $14.5 million. The Spurs did not expect that at all.
They waited and Now TAU knows It´ll be hard to replace him.[quote]Tau always knew that. They used the loophole in teh buyout agreement to hold on to Scola.[quote]And the contract never changed,the buyout didI said the terms of his buyout changed. What part of that did you not understand?

[ChumpDumper]

So wait...

If Horry retires before his contract is up, do the Spurs get granted an "exception" for the full amount of his contract ($4M), or just the guaranteed portion, which is considerably less?There is no exception granted for a regular retirement.
How does his potential retirement effect the MLE and overall cap figure for next year?Nominally, not at all.

[ArgSpursFan]

so,the spurs will have $4 M extra to spend next year,when Horry retires.right?

[ChumpDumper]

so,the spurs will have $4 M extra to spend next year,when Horry retires.right?

NO.

[regio]

i´d say
Ginobili=Scola=Nocioni>Delfino(But he is still young)
If that's the case the Spurs need to give him the 9 million 3 year deal and trade Oberto for a Dave & Busters gift card :fro

[ArgSpursFan]

If that's the case the Spurs need to give him the 9 million 3 year deal and trade Oberto for a Dave & Busters gift card :fro

Unfortunely Oberto doesn´t have the size and Power to be an NBA center,He can be a decent Backup PF/C at the most.But everybody knew that,this is not new for people know follows FIBA and International tournaments.I guess the spurs thought It was gonna be enough with Fabbs BBIQs to fill the Center spot.+They didn´t want to spend more money tham what the spent with Fabbs.
So,basically they´ve got what they paid for.

[objective]

If that's the case the Spurs need to give him the 9 million 3 year deal and trade Oberto for a Dave & Busters gift card :fro

if there's any good luck to go around, something will make Oberto opt out of his contract and leave for Europe or some other NBA team.

I'm crossing my fingers hoping that Oberto eventually gets put on the inactive list later this regular season for Ely to get some modest burn. Hopefully that would do the trick. But those are some big dreams.

[ducks]

if his buyout is 4 million
spurs can pay 750 k now I think with the new cba before only 500k
he should sign a 2 or 3 year deal no more then 9 million for three years
if not then trade his rights

[AFBlue]

There is no exception granted for a regular retirement.Nominally, not at all.

Only a retirement forced by injury right (a la Bob Sura)?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

its like

SCOLA PLAYED WELL

scola should be traded, that increases his trade value


SCOLA SHOULD BE A GOOD SPUR

euro euro euro, let's follow euro ball cuz its applicable to the spurs in the year 2007


SCOLA PLAYED WELL

repeat
ad infinitum
i guess


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Sylvester_Stallone_%281983%29.jpg/180px-Sylvester_Stallone_%281983%29.jpg

[regio]

how the fuck has this thread gone on so long
Because everytime you post a new page is created since your signature is so gigantic :lol
jk

[ChumpDumper]

Only a retirement forced by injury right (a la Bob Sura)?Actually, only a missed season forced by injury. An injury retirement usually removes the contract from a team's cap figure. I believe Sura's case is the former, not the latter.

[WalterBenitez]

That´s what I´ve been trying to explain for over 8 pages in this thread.FIBA rules are complicated and keep players scoring and rebounding lower tham NBA rules.
The reason why is that NBA,was created as a show,and in order to be a show,it has to have big scoring games and has to be spectacular.
FIBA rules are more like the NCAA rules,they´re not the same but they look alike alot.
That´s why Scola and many other great FIBA players average less points and rebounds in Europe.


Oh man you are inefficient I used two words and you 8 pages :nerd

[WalterBenitez]

me gustaria saber cuanto hace q seguis la NBA,por mi parte la sigo desde el 84,no desde q Argentinos llegaron a la NBA.Y aparte si me equivoco en nombrar un partido q fue en el mudial,con respecto a uno de olimpiada,lo hago porque no estoy fijandome las estadisticas y las fechas exactas de los partidos en otras paginas de internet.Y si no te gusta no leas lo que tengo q decir.
Aparte a mi no me molesta q me lleven la contra y no es mi intencion agrandar a nadie,al contrario si fuera por mi Oberto se podria ir a vivir a Cordoba en este momento y dejar de dar lastima en la NBA.
Asi que si no te molesta dejame de romper las pelotas .
y si te molesta tanto lo q digo nos sacamos la bronca y listo.Yo vivo en Orlando 6 meses y 6 meses en Arg,asi que decime donde estas asi te rompo el alma y nos sacamos la bronca,ok?

Your spanish is great, we are suppossed to write in english :p:

Hey, I left a great firlfriend who is living in Orlando, say hi to her

:dramaquee

[WalterBenitez]

what is english to hard to ask for? shit.

Well, it is interesting that people loves his/her native language to shit on somebody properly :lol

[WalterBenitez]

i´d say
Ginobili=Scola=Nocioni>Delfino(But he is still young)

hmmmm, may I Sir ?... I think Manu is a craftman the rest are only good players ... Cahpu is doing well (despite of the injury) in CHicago, but Scola could be undersized to NBA

[Bruno]

Just a little info that I've found quite funny (not worth starting a new thread) :

Melvin Sanders has now the Georgian nationality. :spin
He keeps too his american nationality but he will play for the Georgian NT this summer. It could seem strange because Sanders has nothing to do with the Georgia but this kind of things happen more and more now : Georgia improve his BB NT, Sanders will earn more money if he stays in europe next year because there are quotas on american players in europe and Pau will be able to use Sanders in french league where he couldn't play before because of these quotas.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Shammond Williams did the same thing.

[timvp]

Yeah and Shammond Williams got paid nicely to do so :greedy

Congrats to Melvin Sanders if he got the same deal that Williams had.

[Bruno]

Another american (Tyrone Ellis) plays too for Georgia.
Sanders get too a pre-contract with Pau for next year just after he get his Georgian nationality. :greedy
BTW, Pau's coach is too georgian NT coach

[Mr. Body]

I'll play for Georgia. How much is it?

[ArgSpursFan]

Just a little info that I've found quite funny (not worth starting a new thread) :

Melvin Sanders has now the Georgian nationality. :spin
He keeps too his american nationality but he will play for the Georgian NT this summer. It could seem strange because Sanders has nothing to do with the Georgia but this kind of things happen more and more now : Georgia improve his BB NT, Sanders will earn more money if he stays in europe next year because there are quotas on american players in europe and Pau will be able to use Sanders in french league where he couldn't play before because of these quotas.

Scola did the same.he became Spanish and kept his Arg,Nationality as well to keep on playing for the Arg Nat.Team,and I think Manu did the same in Italy years back.

[ArgSpursFan]

BTW,this happens all the time in Europe because of those stupid quotas(limited forenge players rule)they have over there.
I´m not sure but TP´s dad did the same I belive.I´ll look it up though.