O'Neal Calls Nash's MVPs 'Tainted'

[Celtic Pride]

24th February, 2007 - 5:43 am
Arizona Republic -
Shaquille O'Neal considers Steve Nash's MVP awards to be "tainted."

After Miami's loss in Dallas on Thursday, O'Neal was engaged in an MVP discussion as it related to the Mavericks' Dirk Nowitzki. O'Neal questioned how the media picks MVPs and said the award has been "tainted" the past two seasons. O'Neal was the runner-up for Nash's first MVP in 2005.

O'Neal repeated "tainted" references to reporters.

"I don't know what to say," Nash said. "I'm sorry he feels that way." [READ] http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns//articles/0224sunsnb0224.html

[TDMVPDPOY]

nashs first mvp was a load of bs

oneal and tim duncan missed nearly the same amount of games and still manage to put there team up.....

[AZLouis]

Meanwhile we'll see if the lazy Shaquille O'Neal can do anything with this sorry Heat team that is missing the only player that seemed to care outside of Zo.

Regarding Nash's first MVP take a look at the Suns record the previous season with essentially the same team except for Nash. They were 29-53 and then in Nash's first season they went 62-20.

Based on previous seasons that same period the Lakers increased wins from 50 to 56 and the Spurs seen a decline by going from 60 to 57.

Nash's existence on the team clearly showed his value to the Suns and their ability to win.

[themvp]

Nash 2005 MVP - correct
Nash 2006 MVP - bullshit

[RonMexico]

Meanwhile we'll see if the lazy Shaquille O'Neal can do anything with this sorry Heat team that is missing the only player that seemed to care outside of Zo.

Regarding Nash's first MVP take a look at the Suns record the previous season with essentially the same team except for Nash. They were 29-53 and then in Nash's first season they went 62-20.

Based on previous seasons that same period the Lakers increased wins from 50 to 56 and the Spurs seen a decline by going from 60 to 57.

Nash's existence on the team clearly showed his value to the Suns and their ability to win.

Unfortunately, we've been told many times on this message board that numbers don't matter.

I like Shaq, but those were dumb statements, no doubt a result of his frustration to losing to Dallas (in the first game I've actually seen him play hard this whole season) and probably losing D-Wade for the season.

Thanks to TMVPDPOYDOCUHEOFTHEYEAR for another misspelled rant that makes absolutely no sense. Will you please learn the correct usage of "their," "there," and "they're"????? It should be in any 3rd grade English textbook...

You find every chance to descredit Nash, the Suns, D-Wade... pretty much anyone but Tim Duncan. Please direct this hatred toward Dirk and then we can be friends.

[lefty]

Nash 2005 MVP - correct
Nash 2006 MVP - bullshit

2006 wasn't bullshit; they were 1 game away from making the Finals, and Amare missed the season; Nash deserved it

[Obstructed_View]

Shaq was MVP in 2005, he just didn't get the award.

[lefty]

Shaq was MVP in 2005, he just didn't get the award.
:wtf :wtf

[TDMVPDPOY]

Shaq was MVP in 2005, he just didn't get the award.

Td wouldve won it, he was out the same amount of games as shaq or lesser, and his team finish more wins than the heat did.

[v2freak]

I don't think Nash deserved 2 MVPs

[Obstructed_View]

Td wouldve won it, he was out the same amount of games as shaq or lesser, and his team finish more wins than the heat did.
Duncan and Shaq's numbers were close, but the Heat and Spurs both won 59 games in 2005. The Spurs improved by 2 wins and the Heat improved by 17 wins, even after trading away Caron Butler and Lamar Odom. IMO Shaq was robbed for MVP. Duncan would certainly have been a better choice than Nash.

[dallaskd]

2006 wasn't bullshit; they were 1 game away from making the Finals, and Amare missed the season; Nash deserved it

2 games.

[ponky]

who cares? bitching about it won't change anything. let's just hope the dumbazzes don't give him a third! :)

[MJ23DWADE3]

fuuny thing is i remeber shaq was happy when nash won his first saying steve is a great guy and i believe when he won he had two twins

[mavsfan1000]

fuuny thing is i remeber shaq was happy when nash won his first saying steve is a great guy and i believe when he won he had two twins
One of the few times Shaq was being phony. He usually speaks his mind which than gets him in trouble.

[lefty]

2 games.

right 2; my bad

[lefty]

I don't think Nash deserved 2 MVPs

He did

[lefty]

fuuny thing is i remeber shaq was happy when nash won his first saying steve is a great guy and i believe when he won he had two twins

True, but before that, he was bitching , saying he deserved it instead of Nash

[ShackO]

True, but before that, he was bitching , saying he deserved it instead of Nash
http://www.thebbps.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/shaq.gif

[Amare_32]

What does he mean by tainted? Tainted like the Heat's championship? He should spend more time worrying about his sorry ass team who might not make the playoffs and less about the Suns.

[Leetonidas]

Duncan and Shaq's numbers were close, but the Heat and Spurs both won 59 games in 2005. The Spurs improved by 2 wins and the Heat improved by 17 wins, even after trading away Caron Butler and Lamar Odom. IMO Shaq was robbed for MVP. Duncan would certainly have been a better choice than Nash.
Yes, but the Suns went 29-53 to 62-20, and improvement of 33 wins. Nash deserved it in 2005, and if anyone disagrees, something is seriously wrong with you.

[lefty]

What does he mean by tainted? Tainted like the Heat's championship? He should spend more time worrying about his sorry ass team who might not make the playoffs and less about the Suns.
:clap :clap

[MJ23DWADE3]

What does he mean by tainted? Tainted like the Heat's championship? He should spend more time worrying about his sorry ass team who might not make the playoffs and less about the Suns.
At Least the heat have won a championship. :rolleyes

[boutons_]

Shaq's mouth is as fat as his butt

[lefty]

At Least the heat have won a championship. :rolleyes

Of course they have; they played Dallas
:lol

[timvp]

All I know is that if Nash doesn't make at least one Finals appearance, history is going to look back at his MVPs and try to figure out WTF the voters were thinking.

[Amare_32]

Shaq's mouth is as fat as his butt




:clap :clap

[dbreiden83080]

This is why Shaq just gets on my nerves sometimes. He has a huge EGO yet he comes off petty and jealous seemingly when the mood strikes him. Like when ESPN interviewed him during the 2005 finals and he said he thought the games were boring and it would have been so much more exciting if his team was in it.

[Amare_32]

This is why Shaq just gets on my nerves sometimes. He has a huge EGO yet he comes off petty and jealous seemingly when the mood strikes him. Like when ESPN interviewed him during the 2005 finals and he said he thought the games were boring and it would have been so much more exciting if his team was in it.

He is just frustrated that he is no longer the best player in the NBA and even the best player on his team. His time is up. The worst part for the Heat is they still have $80 million and 4 years left of O'neal left to go. Which means it is going to be difficult to build a team around Wade until he is gone. They are going to have to make some serious moves this summer to make that team better.

[dbreiden83080]

He is just frustrated that he is no longer the best player in the NBA and even the best player on his team. His time is up. The worst part for the Heat is they still have $80 million and 4 years left of O'neal left to go. Which means it is going to be difficult to build a team around Wade until he is gone.

True and the Heat felt backed into a corner on that one. They knew they would get maybe 2 or 3 years of pretty dominant play out of him and then get stuck with at least 2 years of lousy play at a hefty price tag. However if they did not give Shaq that 5 year deal his EGO would have kicked in and probably walked so they felt they had no choice.

[1Parker1]

What does he mean by "tainted?" :wtf

[Amare_32]

What does he mean by "tainted?" :wtf

By tainted he means that his ego was not fed.

[mabber]

This is why Shaq just gets on my nerves sometimes. He has a huge EGO yet he comes off petty and jealous seemingly when the mood strikes him. Like when ESPN interviewed him during the 2005 finals and he said he thought the games were boring and it would have been so much more exciting if his team was in it.

Yeah, most of the time I actually enjoy Shaq cuz he's funny to me but he annoys the crap out of me in that he'll never give credit to anyone else...be it a player or a team(unless it's another player on his team). I realize he had to back his teammate (Wade) in being upset about what some of the Mavs said about giving away the finals but it's EXACTLY what he would have said.

[Purple & Gold]

Good ol Shaq back with his usual comments. I knew the NBA was missing something.

[ambchang]

Yes, but the Suns went 29-53 to 62-20, and improvement of 33 wins. Nash deserved it in 2005, and if anyone disagrees, something is seriously wrong with you.
Robinson's rookie season, the Spurs had a 35-game improvement, Duncan's rookie season (with DRob returning from injury), the Spurs had a 36-game improvement.
Neither Robinson nor Duncan won the MVPs in those years.
There is nothing wrong with people who does not agree with Nash being the MVP that year, some may point to Shaq, others to Duncan.
I also do not believe a player like Duncan should be penalized by being consistently excellent with the same team, and does not create dramatic turnarounds.
But after all this talk, I believe Nash should have won the MVP in 2005 due to the weak crop of MVP candidates that year. In 2006, I believe it should have been somebody else, such as LeBron James.

[lefty]

Robinson's rookie season, the Spurs had a 35-game improvement, Duncan's rookie season (with DRob returning from injury), the Spurs had a 36-game improvement.
Neither Robinson nor Duncan won the MVPs in those years.

Well, to be fair, they were rookies (rookies are rarely ROY and MVP the same season ; Wilt was roy and mvp the same year) ; Magic was the MVP in 1990 and Jordan in 1998 ; they deserved their awards those seasons

[ponky]

he ought to just be quiet and worry about ilgauskas back in the lineup on sunday for the cavs...ilgauskas and varejao

[P-O-Z]

he ought to just be quiet and worry about ilgauskas back in the lineup on sunday for the cavs...ilgauskas and varejao
ilgauskas is a bitch shaq dominated him the last time he played in miami

[ponky]

ilgauskas is a bitch shaq dominated him the last time he played in miami

well, the heat might have a break tomorrow, just read that pavlovic (flu) and damon jones might not play tomorrow (strep) and the cavs are not that good

[samikeyp]

Shaq thinks anyone but him is a tainted MVP.

[P-O-Z]

well, the heat might have a break tomorrow, just read that pavlovic (flu) and damon jones might not play tomorrow (strep) and the cavs are not that good
yea i know thank god hopefully our second option which is either eddie or posey will step up big

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Shaq has a big mouth. Sometimes it's funny, most of the time he should just keep his big fat mouth shut; he was never that smart or tactful when it came to making comments. I'm sure he didn't mean to offend Steve Nash directly, he was just thinking about himself and the voters in relation to his MVP's, just because he's only gotten one . He's a fat-ass media clown.

[boutons_]

" What does he mean by "tainted?" "

He meant something else, but his vocab is not large nor his choice of words precise.

[Amare_32]

" What does he mean by "tainted?" "

He meant something else, but his vocab is not large nor his choice of words precise.

I guess he thinks MVPs are players on teams that are defending champs and who are barely hanging on to an 8th seed in a shitty conference and lost thier best player possibly for the season.

[ponky]

I guess he thinks MVPs are players on teams that are defending champs and who are barely hanging on to an 8th seed in a shitty conference and lost thier best player possibly for the season.

:lol :lol :lol

[DubMcDub]

2006 wasn't bullshit; they were 1 game away from making the Finals, and Amare missed the season; Nash deserved it

How do you figure? They won 2 games in the WCF. Pretty sure that's 2 games away.

[lefty]

How do you figure? They won 2 games in the WCF. Pretty sure that's 2 games away.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1473048&postcount=16

[Cry Havoc]

So wait,

Shaq is a complete idiot...

And this is news, how?

It's obvious he doesn't have the mental capacity necessary to be an articulate individual. I'll give him a break on this as a tribute to his idiocy.

[Celtic Pride]

Shaq shoots, misses on MVPBy Jennifer Floyd Engel
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

GETTY IMAGES/JONATHAN DANIEL
Mavs forward Dirk Nowitzki can make Shaq eat his words.DALLAS -- Do not expect Shaq to sport his "Dirk for MVP" T-shirt anytime soon.

He seemed rather ambivalent about the campaign Thursday.

"I don't know," he deadpanned when asked if Dirk Nowitzki was a legit MVP contender. "I don't know how y'all give the award. That award has been tainted the last couple of years."

There was a mild attempt on my part to prod Shaq to define tainted. It failed. The interview traveled down typical, humorous paths, as usually happens with Shaq, until he stood to leave, looked back at me and started again with the tainted talk.

"Tainted. You know what I mean by tainted, you are a smart young lady," Shaq said.

I am. Or I can be. Sometimes. OK, every couple of weeks, I have a semi-smart thought. This must be my February moment because I know what tainted means without a dictionary.

And I also know the only thing tainted is the prevalent NBA thinking that the MVP must be a ball hog who sells a bunch of shoes and becomes a SportsCenter mainstay.

Dirk is not your Shaq Daddy's MVP, but he is a worthy contender. Just as Steve Nash was in 2005, regardless of what Shaq thinks.

This is what Shaq really meant by tainted. He meant the voters screwed up by giving the MVP to Nash rather than him in 2005, that Steve was not a prototypical winner, that Steve was not the best player in the league.

And while Shaq did not exactly say it Thursday, there will be many who believe an MVP for Dirk is likewise tainted.

This is not a racial thing, despite occasional jokes about Dirk being "The Other White MVP." This is a cred thing. Be honest: When you think of the best player in the NBA, you think LeBron and Kobe and D-Wade and Melo. They dominate the ball, the game, the headlines, the commercials.

What the league flirted with regarding Nash is the idea of the "V" in MVP -- what a guy means to his team and how he makes it better. It is on this concept Dirk would win the award this year, which is only slightly ironic because a couple of weeks ago D-Wade was questioning Dirk's Finals leadership.

In terms of trash talk, Shaq's was kind of lame. He was much better with his WNBA and Ericka cracks about Erick Dampier. Yet Wade's rip was much more personal. He was basically saying Dirk is not like us, and his "us" includes Jordan and Kobe and Bird.

These are the guys capable of putting a team on their shoulders and carrying them to a championship. He obviously does not think Dirk belongs in this group.

Do not think for a moment this does not bother Dirk.

Mavs coach Avery Johnson actually laughed when asked if little digs from peers actually matter. Of course, they do. When a player is ripped by another, he hears it and feels it and uses it -- hoping for the day when he can make the guy eat his words.

"I had a guy say the Spurs would never win a championship with me as point guard," Avery said.

Avery is friends with the guy now and did not want to call him out, but we will. He is Damon Stoudamire and, ooooh, did Mighty Mouse tick him off at the time, and it fed him.

"I think you should do that, you should try to prove your critics wrong," Avery said. "You should make people eat their words -- within the context of what makes your team better."

What this smart young lady knows for sure is Dirk eventually will, and there will be nothing tainted about it.

Jennifer Floyd Engel can be heard weekdays 9 a.m.-noon on The Little Ball of Hate Show on ESPN/103.3 FM.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/16781747.htm

[Obstructed_View]

Yes, but the Suns went 29-53 to 62-20, and improvement of 33 wins. Nash deserved it in 2005, and if anyone disagrees, something is seriously wrong with you.
Oh, well where's Tim Duncan's MVP for his rookie year? The Spurs went from 20-62 to 56-26, an improvement of 36 wins. If you don't have to take into account a mid season coaching change or decimating team injuries, I don't either. The Suns were as much a 30 win team as the Spurs were a 20 win team. The Spurs also didn't trade away their best player (and only decent point guard) in the middle of the 20-win campaign.

How about the fact that the Mavericks improved by six games the first season without Nash even in a tougher division? Since you can put forth bullshit disguised as evidence can I do it, too?

[resistanze]

Robinson's rookie season, the Spurs had a 35-game improvement, Duncan's rookie season (with DRob returning from injury), the Spurs had a 36-game improvement.
Neither Robinson nor Duncan won the MVPs in those years.
There is nothing wrong with people who does not agree with Nash being the MVP that year, some may point to Shaq, others to Duncan.
I also do not believe a player like Duncan should be penalized by being consistently excellent with the same team, and does not create dramatic turnarounds.
But after all this talk, I believe Nash should have won the MVP in 2005 due to the weak crop of MVP candidates that year. In 2006, I believe it should have been somebody else, such as LeBron James.

I agree with your overall point. I didn't have too much of a problem with Nash winning it in 2005, but the reasons they gave in 2006 were so absurd. How can Amare's absence be a strong enough reason to negate the fact that they lost 8 more games and a kid that averaged 31/7/7 on a 50 win team? After all, it was Nash, not Amare, who was the MVP the previous year.

He's the MVP when he's playing.
He's the MVP when he's not playing.
He's the MVP when someone else isn't playing.
He's the MVP when they win more games than before.
He's the MVP when they lose more games, but less than someone expected.

WTF? Even as a Canadian I grew tried of the bandwagon.

[Leetonidas]

Oh, well where's Tim Duncan's MVP for his rookie year? The Spurs went from 20-62 to 56-26, an improvement of 36 wins. If you don't have to take into account a mid season coaching change or decimating team injuries, I don't either. The Suns were as much a 30 win team as the Spurs were a 20 win team. The Spurs also didn't trade away their best player (and only decent point guard) in the middle of the 20-win campaign.

How about the fact that the Mavericks improved by six games the first season without Nash even in a tougher division? Since you can put forth bullshit disguised as evidence can I do it, too?
Rookies very rarely win MVPs, like someone said, and only Wilt did it. But also in 1997, not only did the Spurs get Duncan, but Robinson came back from injury, so it's not like the Spurs gained only one player and won 30+ more games. Nash took a team that didn't appear to be going anywhere and put them at the top of the West, a tough West nonetheless. The Suns have always been a good team, it's just their coach was dumb and did not understand the system to put them in and Marbury could not run the system they needed. D'Antoni knew the system to put them in and got them the best player for it, and this is why he was the MVP.

Personally I think the Heat would've won the same amount of games or a few less with Caron and Lamar still on the team, along with the emergence of Wade. Shaq did in no way deserve the MVP that year. However, I don't think Nash deserved the MVP last year. Yes, Amare went down, but they got Bell, Thomas, Diaw, etc, to back him up.

[RonMexico]

Rookies very rarely win MVPs, like someone said, and only Wilt did it. But also in 1997, not only did the Spurs get Duncan, but Robinson came back from injury, so it's not like the Spurs gained only one player and won 30+ more games. Nash took a team that didn't appear to be going anywhere and put them at the top of the West, a tough West nonetheless. The Suns have always been a good team, it's just their coach was dumb and did not understand the system to put them in and Marbury could not run the system they needed. D'Antoni knew the system to put them in and got them the best player for it, and this is why he was the MVP.

Personally I think the Heat would've won the same amount of games or a few less with Caron and Lamar still on the team, along with the emergence of Wade. Shaq did in no way deserve the MVP that year. However, I don't think Nash deserved the MVP last year. Yes, Amare went down, but they got Bell, Thomas, Diaw, etc, to back him up.

That's a pretty good point. The 2006 MVP was a shock for me, but to say I wasn't happy would be a lie.

[ambchang]

Rookies very rarely win MVPs, like someone said, and only Wilt did it.
I believe Wes Unseld also won MVP as a rookie, based on the exact reason why they selected Nash.
The Bullets (back then, inner-city crime wasn't as sensitive a subject as of today, in fact, back then, the supernatural subjects were more sensitive a subject than inner-city crime) won more games than people expect, and the "only" significant change was Wes Unseld, and the list of MVP-candidates was relatively weak (OK, Wilt and Russell were still around, but it was weak compared to other years), thus MVP for Unseld.


But also in 1997, not only did the Spurs get Duncan, but Robinson came back from injury, so it's not like the Spurs gained only one player and won 30+ more games. Nash took a team that didn't appear to be going anywhere and put them at the top of the West, a tough West nonetheless. The Suns have always been a good team, it's just their coach was dumb and did not understand the system to put them in and Marbury could not run the system they needed. D'Antoni knew the system to put them in and got them the best player for it, and this is why he was the MVP.
But then why did Robinson not win one in his rookie season? Or Kidd with the Nets? Nash replaced Marbury, who himself is worth probably 20 losses a season by himself, it is a case where the coach fits the players in the right system to produce wins, and the coach was awarded for it (CoY). Again, I thought Nash was the best MVP candidate that year, but strictly because it was a weak year.
So in other words, Nash probably won the MVP in 2005 due to a weak class, and last year was very arguable.

Personally I think the Heat would've won the same amount of games or a few less with Caron and Lamar still on the team, along with the emergence of Wade. Shaq did in no way deserve the MVP that year. However, I don't think Nash deserved the MVP last year. Yes, Amare went down, but they got Bell, Thomas, Diaw, etc, to back him up.
This we agree.

[AZLouis]

. However, I don't think Nash deserved the MVP last year. Yes, Amare went down, but they got Bell, Thomas, Diaw, etc, to back him up.

Valiant points except KT missed half or more of the season, Barbosa missed 20+, and James Jones missed a handful.

[ShoogarBear]

I agree with your overall point. I didn't have too much of a problem with Nash winning it in 2005, but the reasons they gave in 2006 were so absurd. How can Amare's absence be a strong enough reason to negate the fact that they lost 8 more games and a kid that averaged 31/7/7 on a 50 win team? After all, it was Nash, not Amare, who was the MVP the previous year.

He's the MVP when he's playing.
He's the MVP when he's not playing.
He's the MVP when someone else isn't playing.
He's the MVP when they win more games than before.
He's the MVP when they lose more games, but less than someone expected.

WTF? Even as a Canadian I grew tried of the bandwagon.:tu

Basically, they will contstruct a series of convoluted arguments which can be used to prove that Steve Nash is the MVP every year no matter what.

[Obstructed_View]

not only did the Spurs get Duncan, but Robinson came back from injury, so it's not like the Spurs gained only one player and won 30+ more games.
The Suns got Amare back from injury the previous year, they also got Joe Johnson moved to his natural position and signed Q Richardson and Jimmy Jackson. Implying that the Suns only gained one player and won 30+ more games is just as ridiculous. The only difference is that the experts weren't stupid enough to predict that the 1998 Spurs would finish at the bottom of their division.



Nash

...and Q Rich and Amare and Jim Jackson, all healthy for the entire season with the coaching staff intact for the entire season and making no mid-season trades of all their players, nor having to shuffle personnel in and out to fill the roster...



took a team that didn't appear to be going anywhere

...by the very experts that were surprised enough by their emergence to give all the credit to the only true point guard on the roster...


and put them at the top of the West, a tough West nonetheless.
By two games in the regular season, before being blown out in the playoffs.


The Suns have always been a good team, it's just their coach was dumb and did not understand the system to put them in and Marbury could not run the system they needed. D'Antoni knew the system to put them in and got them the best player for it, and this is why he was the MVP.
That's a moving case for D'Antoni to be MVP, but he was named coach of the year. If he did such a great job, doesn't that mean there were a half dozen point guards that could run his system just as well as Nash? Phoenix overpaid for Nash because they desperately needed a good point guard to run D'Antoni's system, and if they couldn't get Nash they had the likes of Rafer Alston, Charlie Ward or Derek Fisher to choose from. The proof of their desperation is the ineptness of the system when Nash is out. It only makes him valuable from the standpoint that the Suns don't have a backup capable of running the system. In no way does it suggest that any upper-eschelon point guard couldn't have run it. If you recall it was Marbury's DUI and jail sentence that was the reason he was traded to New York the previous season; D'Antoni's system had nothing to do with it.



Personally I think the Heat would've won the same amount of games or a few less with Caron and Lamar still on the team, along with the emergence of Wade.

So the Heat would have just magically won 17 more games than they had the previous season even with the exact same roster? Why would you give so much credit to Wade's assumed development but almost zero to the development of players like Amare Stoudamire, Joe Johnson, Quentin Richardson and Leandro Barbosa?


Shaq did in no way deserve the MVP that year.

So it has nothing to do with numbers, defense, or team improvement? I guess it's the player with the gaudiest stats on the team with the best regular season record. If that's your belief then of course neither did Duncan, who was in the running. Nor I suppose would Duncan be deserving of the 2002 MVP because the Kings won more games or the 2003 MVP because Dirk averaged more points.

I guss Dirk should have been runner up for the 2005 MVP for leading a team to 58 wins a year after losing the greatest point guard in the history of the game.

[JMarkJohns]

I still maintain that Shaq deserved the MVP in 2005, for many of the reasons already mentioned by Obstructed View, but that Nash clearly deserved the award in 2006, though he wasn't the only deserving player.

I think last and this year Nash deserves it. However, I think because he's already won his back-to-back, that there's almost no chance he wins a third this year. It'll go to Dirk, no question in my mind.