12 Greenest Cars: not one from Detroit

[boutons_]

http://reviews.cnet.com/4326-10863_7-6562766.html?tag=nl.e404

The Repugs would rather waste US military lives and treasure in bullshit wars rather than force reductions in oil-for-transport consumption, because that would reduce oilco profits.

[clambake]

I wouldn't by a car made in Detroit.

[01Snake]

I wouldn't by a car made in Detroit.

I've got one of the few exceptions. :D

[mikejones99]

A few people in Detroit made Billions of dollars selling terrible cars to millions of fools. Why would they want to change?

[leemajors]

http://reviews.cnet.com/4326-10863_7-6562766.html?tag=nl.e404

The Repugs would rather waste US military lives and treasure in bullshit wars rather than force reductions in oil-for-transport consumption, because that would reduce oilco profits.

i don't think you can blame republicans across the board for the failure of US car companies to produce more and more economical vehicles. they play quite a role, but there are plenty of democrats in pocket as well.

[AFBlue]

A few people in Detroit made Billions of dollars selling terrible cars to millions of fools. Why would they want to change?

Because right now they're LOSING billions. See comment above about not buying a car out of Detriot...you would have seen just the opposite 20 years ago. The market for American automobiles is in the toilet...

[101A]

You want a small, efficient engine?

Japan has done it better than anybody else since, well, forever.

No Detroit? No Germany, either. That's because on THAT side of the pond, the politicians haven't made diesels damn near impossible in cars. The most efficient cars in Europe are mostly of the spark-less variety. Because of the environmental regulations we DO have here, we don't get to take advantage of those rides.

Don't sleep on those Koreans, though.

[101A]

Because right now they're LOSING billions. See comment above about not buying a car out of Detriot...you would have seen just the opposite 20 years ago. The market for American automobiles is in the toilet...


20 years ago was 1987 - I think you mean 40 years ago since anyone pretended Detroit made the best iron.

[DarkReign]

....sad, but true....

[mikejones99]

Same kind of people own the Detroit Lions. Would you want them running your team or making your car?

[NorCal510]

this is the greenest car






http://demo.wnews.biz/files/d0000/car_green_800.jpg

[Extra Stout]

You want a small, efficient engine?

Japan has done it better than anybody else since, well, forever.

No Detroit? No Germany, either. That's because on THAT side of the pond, the politicians haven't made diesels damn near impossible in cars. The most efficient cars in Europe are mostly of the spark-less variety. Because of the environmental regulations we DO have here, we don't get to take advantage of those rides.

Don't sleep on those Koreans, though.
The diesels are coming here. The switch to low-sulfur gasoline allows the use of particulate filters on the exhaust as in Europe. Previously, the sulfates clogged the filters. Our NOx restrictions are tighter, so that creates another obstacle. DCX got around that by using urea. Newer engines will be able to meet NOx restrictions without urea.

The best European diesels are like having your cake and eating it too. The BMW 330d has something like 360 lb-ft of torque, but gets nearly 40 mpg. The only complaint is that its midrange power is so abundant and smooth that there is never a need to downshift on the highway, and enthusiasts get a little bored.

The "economical" diesels get in excess of 50 mpg -- better than the real-life performance of gasoline hybrids.

There are no clouds of smoke. The only diesel clatter occurs on cold starts, and after a couple of minutes, the engines are as quiet as a gas engine. With their abundant low-end grunt, they perform far better in everyday driving conditions than most gas engines, unless your everyday driving conditions involve driving over 100 mph (The last Mercedes diesel I drove took a while to spool up once it got past 160 km/h).

Some people will complain because diesel smells bad at the filling station, and it is greasy if one gets a little on their hands. Other than that, we are being deprived by not having economical diesels over here in most of our passenger cars. The American manufacturers won't survive long enough to develop them anyway.

[101A]

The diesels are coming here. The switch to low-sulfur gasoline allows the use of particulate filters on the exhaust as in Europe. Previously, the sulfates clogged the filters. Our NOx restrictions are tighter, so that creates another obstacle. DCX got around that by using urea. Newer engines will be able to meet NOx restrictions without urea.

The best European diesels are like having your cake and eating it too. The BMW 330d has something like 360 lb-ft of torque, but gets nearly 40 mpg. The only complaint is that its midrange power is so abundant and smooth that there is never a need to downshift on the highway, and enthusiasts get a little bored.

The "economical" diesels get in excess of 50 mpg -- better than the real-life performance of gasoline hybrids.

There are no clouds of smoke. The only diesel clatter occurs on cold starts, and after a couple of minutes, the engines are as quiet as a gas engine. With their abundant low-end grunt, they perform far better in everyday driving conditions than most gas engines, unless your everyday driving conditions involve driving over 100 mph (The last Mercedes diesel I drove took a while to spool up once it got past 160 km/h).

Some people will complain because diesel smells bad at the filling station, and it is greasy if one gets a little on their hands. Other than that, we are being deprived by not having economical diesels over here in most of our passenger cars. The American manufacturers won't survive long enough to develop them anyway.

How about Audi at Le Mans?

I've been looking forward to the "new" diesel fuel, and the potential choices it might give us over here. I also pull a relatively heavy load quite a bit; I wish the automakers (this includes all of them), would build a diesel for a 1/2 ton; I don't need to pull a mountain down the road; or accept the ride of a 3/4 or 1 ton; but it would SURE be nice to get the torque and efficiency benefits of an oil burner. I don't think restrictions, however, were what was stopping the mfg's from building those for light trucks in the first place.

Diesel/electric hybrid would be the MOST efficient vehicle out there (it's what locomotives have done for years).

[Extra Stout]

Diesel/electric hybrid would be the MOST efficient vehicle out there (it's what locomotives have done for years).
PSA has the lead for automotive diesel-hybrid development right now.

[boutons_]

A diesel/electric hybrid would be effiicient but the expense, weight, and complexity (reliabilty/maintenance) of two engines is brain-dead. Engineers HATE duel-engined cars, not that that engineers' opinions count.

Aiming to get the majority of American cars to 50 MPG on any fuel as quickly as possible would be incredibly better than the sub 30 MPG we have now. That, plus increasing improvements, would probably hold us, along with other Apollo-program tax-incentivized oil-conservation measures, until we get away from internal carbon-combustion engines entirely.

The national politicians, esp the national Repugs, will continue to do whatever the oilcos want to optimize oilco profits. Dem CA with its extremely moderate and very successful moderate Repug governor will continue to take the regulatory lead, as it has for 40 years, in transport and electricity efficiency. Other states are working together on conservation/ecological/antipollution/energy initiatives that the national politicians don't have the balls to tackle.

The cultural problem is the biggest obstacle. Americans have been sold and have bought The Great American (infantile) Dream of infinite freedom with no responsibility, greedy, inane, self-destructive consumerism without limit. And their sucky elected officials reflect the consmers' sucky "life-style" choices.

[xrayzebra]

^^boutons love the smell of horse hockey. Maybe he should be
confined to a barn yard. He could then conserve till his little
heart desires. You know like: burn cow chips, plant himself a
garden in the fertile soil, stay home and give up the sucky
life-style choices, you know like give up his computer with all
its polluting qualities and components. Yeah.....