HawksTalk Thread

[AFBlue]

There are a few posters in here that follow the Atlanta Hawks, hoping against hope that they finally turn the corner and deliver on the immense potential they have in their current roster. The purpose of this thread is to discuss any and all Hawks business, be it the players, management, ownership, or just updates on their games.

[AFBlue]

I'll start it out...


I can't believe the lineup this team trots out there for extended minutes...

PG Joe Johnson
SG Josh Childress
SF Josh Smith
PF Marvin Williams
C Zaza Pachulia

The only player of that five playing in his true position is Josh Smith. Childress is a SF, Johnson is a SG, Marvin Williams a SF and Zaza a PF. No wonder their defense is horrendous, they have no legitimate inside presence (as much as I love Zaza, he's an offensive-oriented player that's soft on interior D) and not enough quickness on the wings to guard smaller, slashing guards. The saddest thing is that these players are individually good (possibly GREAT) but the team as a whole is so horrible constructed in an ass-backward manner that they'll never put together a legitimate contending team so long as they remain as they are.

[monosylab1k]

I'll start it out...


I can't believe the lineup this team trots out there for extended minutes...

PG Joe Johnson
SG Josh Childress
SF Josh Smith
PF Marvin Williams
C Zaza Pachulia

The only player of that five playing in his true position is Josh Smith. Childress is a SF, Johnson is a SG, Marvin Williams a SF and Zaza a PF. No wonder their defense is horrendous, they have no legitimate inside presence (as much as I love Zaza, he's an offensive-oriented player that's soft on interior D) and not enough quickness on the wings to guard smaller, slashing guards. The saddest thing is that these players are individually good (possibly GREAT) but the team as a whole is so horrible constructed in an ass-backward manner that they'll never put together a legitimate contending team so long as they remain as they are.

Yeah, this team is way too backloaded with the 6-9 forward. Shelden Williams is also there on the bench, and that guy's got alot of potential too.

I still hold out alot of hope for Marvin Williams, but drafting Chris Paul would have this team in playoff contention right now. Tyron Lue has been solid, but he's nothing more than a good backup, and Claxton has been a total bust signing so far. One good point guard would really give this team a serious shot at the playoffs, especially with how weak the East is.

This team's got talent and potential out the ass, but no direction whatsoever. I dunno how much input he has regarding the personnel they get, but I actually think Woodson has done really well with what he's been given.

[monosylab1k]

SF Josh Smith
PF Marvin Williams


I don't see enough Hawks games in Dallas to really see how they play for a full game, but it seems like Smith would be a better fit at PF. He's a much better rebounder and defensive player, and alot more aggresive than Williams, from what I've seen. Last year when Smith thought he was a 3pt shooter, this might not have worked, but from what you see, do u think swapping these two would work a little better?

[monosylab1k]

Last year when Smith thought he was a 3pt shooter,

okay i just looked at his numbers and he's shooting more three's than ever this season. i thought there was gonna be some emphasis on him playing more inside this season? i dunno, it just seems like he plays alot "bigger" of a game than williams.

[AFBlue]

I don't see enough Hawks games in Dallas to really see how they play for a full game, but it seems like Smith would be a better fit at PF. He's a much better rebounder and defensive player, and alot more aggresive than Williams, from what I've seen. Last year when Smith thought he was a 3pt shooter, this might not have worked, but from what you see, do u think swapping these two would work a little better?

Actually Josh Smith does also see time at the 4 spot, but Marvin sees the most time at that position.

As underdeveloped an inside game as Marvin Williams has, it's better than the inside game of Josh Smith, which is almost non-existent. Williams is also built stronger than Smith and probably has 15 pounds on him. You are right though, that Josh Smith is a potentially great shot blocker and good rebounder, while Williams has yet to develop in those areas.

Both are incredible slashing to the basket and both can finish in traffic. Williams has really improved his aggressiveness this season, and because he has no three-point shot to fall back on as of yet, he relies on his slashing ability and it pays off.

I think that both CAN see some minutes at the 4 in small ball sets, but I think spend more time at the 4 than they SHOULD. They get routinely abused in the post and on rebounds.

Shelden Williams, though dealing with that shoulder injury, has been a mild dissapointment for them this season. He was supposed to be the low-post bruiser on O & D, but has yet to really establish himself as a prescence. I think the Hawks were hoping for Emeka Okafor when they drafted Shelden, but that's not what they got...

[AFBlue]

okay i just looked at his numbers and he's shooting more three's than ever this season. i thought there was gonna be some emphasis on him playing more inside this season? i dunno, it just seems like he plays alot "bigger" of a game than williams.

He has a much more well-rounded game than Williams, but he's young and still inconsistent. While his three-point shot has become more reliable, he's still at his best when slashing and drawing contact. I think J-Smoove (that's Josh Smith for all you non-Hawk followers) has the most potential of them all, but he needs to be reigned in a bit more...disciplined.

[AFBlue]

Oh and I do give Woodson some credit. He's not a great coach, and maybe not even a good one, but I have been impressed with his ability to get the most out of his team. It must frustrate the hell out of him though that his team plays horrible D.

[AFBlue]

I still hold out alot of hope for Marvin Williams, but drafting Chris Paul would have this team in playoff contention right now. Tyron Lue has been solid, but he's nothing more than a good backup, and Claxton has been a total bust signing so far. One good point guard would really give this team a serious shot at the playoffs, especially with how weak the East is.



I also hold out hope for Marvin. I think he showed everyone he was going to be a force with the way he dominated the Summer League. The injury he suffered really tempered that aggressiveness when he first came back, but he's been playing stronger of late.

Tyronn Lue is the X-factor for this team. He's a GREAT locker room guy and their true leader (not best player). When he plays with the team, they are more energetic and more dangerous on offense. He doesn't really create for others like you hope a PG would, but let's just say I wouldn't mind him being a backup for the Spurs...

The sad part about the Claxton signing is how much they paid him and for how long. Claxton is a classic backup PG being paid starter money and that's tough to live up to. I liked him in a Spurs uni, but even I knew then he wasn't worth what the Hawks shelled out to get him. It will really hurt their chances to put someone legitimate alongside JJ and maintain their core...

Your comment on the PG is an understatement. If the Spurs had drafted Chris Paul, they would be a playoff team right now. I know they lack the interior D, but so do the Suns and look how far they've gotten with a pass-first PG at the helm...

[monosylab1k]

He has a much more well-rounded game than Williams, but he's young and still inconsistent. While his three-point shot has become more reliable, he's still at his best when slashing and drawing contact. I think J-Smoove (that's Josh Smith for all you non-Hawk followers) has the most potential of them all, but he needs to be reigned in a bit more...disciplined.

Yeah I love his game. And some of his blocks are just SICK. there are times when he and Marvin both look like they coud become really big stars in this league, but it's gonna take alot more time. I guess that's the frustrating thing right now, seeing the talent and potential, but knowing that it's probably another 2 or 3 years away from fully blossoming. If they could just get that PG, they could definitely be a poor man's Phoenix right now.

[TDMVPDPOY]

josh smith is starting to become the next ak47 with better numbers filling the stat sheet on good nights....

had they drafted CP3, they wouldve been playin in the playoffs for the last 2 years, look at the cast around cp3 now on the hornets when he arrived, they nearly made the playoffs and team record was superior to the hawks.

JS, SW, CC are good if they play in the suns system....

JJ is a fuckn joke to begin with, his overrated....yeh he did good on the usa team, but on the hawks is like any other good player on a scrub team filling the sheet but not getting wins = lame, look at steph when he was there, how about harrington...look at the many times ginoboli exposing this fool, and dude made this years allstar team was a fuckn joke.

[AFBlue]

Joe Johnson is no joke. Yes I know Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson both had career years when they were in Atlanta, but JJ is for real. He plays decent defense, can score from anywhere on the court, can handle the ball, and even be a distributor from time to time.

Edit: He plays out of position at the point too often and he does have an inflated view of himself, but he averages 25/4/4...hard to overrate that.

[mavsfan1000]

The Hawks suck. :lol They don't even deserve a thread.

[AFBlue]

The Hawks suck. :lol They don't even deserve a thread.

And yet one was created and will continue despite your disapproval...

a.k.a....fuck off!

[TDMVPDPOY]

Joe Johnson is no joke. Yes I know Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson both had career years when they were in Atlanta, but JJ is for real. He plays decent defense, can score from anywhere on the court, can handle the ball, and even be a distributor from time to time.

Edit: He plays out of position at the point too often and he does have an inflated view of himself, but he averages 25/4/4...hard to overrate that.

25/4/4 doesnt mean shit when ur team doesnt make the playoffs in a weak conference.

compared his team record against cp3 hornets whose playin in the west against tougher teams, yet they manage to post up a good team record as compared to the lame ducks in the east who play against weak eastern teams 3-4 times....

dude is overrated.

[monosylab1k]

Joe Johnson is no joke. Yes I know Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson both had career years when they were in Atlanta, but JJ is for real. He plays decent defense, can score from anywhere on the court, can handle the ball, and even be a distributor from time to time.

Edit: He plays out of position at the point too often and he does have an inflated view of himself, but he averages 25/4/4...hard to overrate that.

Yeah really. He may not be at the same level as Lebron or Wade, but he's only a small notch below it. He was just as badass in Phoenix, and alot of Suns fans will tell you that, besides Nash, he was the most valuable player on that team. He's Penny Hardaway in his prime, without the injuries.

[FromWayDowntown]

The Hawks suck. :lol They don't even deserve a thread.

They've never been as bad as the Mavs were once upon a time.

And the Hawks have at least won a title.

[angel_luv]

They've never been as bad as the Mavs were once upon a time.

And the Hawks have at least won a title.


Oh snap! :lol

[monosylab1k]

25/4/4 doesnt mean shit when ur team doesnt make the playoffs in a weak conference.

compared his team record against cp3 hornets whose playin in the west against tougher teams, yet they manage to post up a good team record as compared to the lame ducks in the east who play against weak eastern teams 3-4 times....

dude is overrated.

the team is still young as hell, they're all raw and need to learn how to win. Joe Johnson's one of the few more polished guys on that team. the Hawks may have given up a bit too much for him, but Joe Johnson will be the cornerstone of the franchise for the next 5-10 years, and they'll become a very good team in that time.

If they can get a smart PG that can play up-tempo, they'll be a playoff team in a year or two.

[AZLouis]

25/4/4 doesnt mean shit when ur team doesnt make the playoffs in a weak conference.

compared his team record against cp3 hornets whose playin in the west against tougher teams, yet they manage to post up a good team record as compared to the lame ducks in the east who play against weak eastern teams 3-4 times....

dude is overrated.

JJ is real.

As a Suns fan I had the oppurtunity to watch this guy grow from a young player with potential to probably edging out Shawn Marion as wheel #3.

He never missed a regular season game with the Suns. His only missed games were the result of breaking his orbital bone after Jerry Stackhouse took him down. He proceeded to shoot his free throws and then play a few games in the WCF agains the Spurs with a broken orbital bone.

He is multi-talented and to boot he seems like a great guy.

The Suns screwed up big time by refusing to pay him an extra $1 million per year prior to the last year of his contract.

Luckily it netted them Boris Diaw and the Hawks 1st rounder this year (unless it's top 3).

[Xylus]

Joe Johnson is one of the most complete players in the game, which is why he's been so good in Atlanta. It's not really his fault that the Hawks suck--they sucked when he got there because the whole team just isn't that good.

I just hope the Hawks get that #4 pick!

[BUMP]

And the Hawks have at least won a title.

wtf? when?

[monosylab1k]

wtf? when?

1958

[T-Pain]

hey is royal ivey still on the hawks?

[monosylab1k]

hey is royal ivey still on the hawks?

yeah he's toiling on the bench.

[AFBlue]

yeah he's toiling on the bench.

Actually he starts for them when T-Lue is injured....which shows you just how much they think of their off-season acquisition Speedy Claxton. Royal Ivey is a third-string type and is clearly getting minutes for lack of a better option....

[T-Pain]

Actually he starts for them when T-Lue is injured....which shows you just how much they think of their off-season acquisition Speedy Claxton. Royal Ivey is a third-string type and is clearly getting minutes for lack of a better option....
interesting

[AFBlue]

interesting

Well....at least he USED TO start when T-Lue was injured. Now that they got Anthony Johnson from the Mavs, Speedy has moved into the starting lineup and AJ has gotten the majority of the minutes. It's probably for the best, Ivey is a third-string type anyways...

[Purple & Gold]

So what players do you have available? I'm sure the Lakers would like to trade with you guys. What do you need. Who would you guys be willing to trade?

[AFBlue]

So what players do you have available? I'm sure the Lakers would like to trade with you guys. What do you need. Who would you guys be willing to trade?

Kwame Brown played HS ball in Atlanta, it's clear the future C of the Lakers is Bynum, and the Hawks are hurting for a legitimate Center (starting Lorenzen Wright and playing Zaza there for 30+ minutes isn't working).

The Hawks probably wouldn't give up one of their wings for him though, so either the Lakers would have to throw in an additional piece, or they would have to accept a future pick and the salary cap relief that the Hawks would provide by taking Kwame's contract straight up, or creating one of those "exceptions" so the Lakers could go out and get a player of Brown's equal contract value (not sure how this works or if it's really possible).

Having said that, Billy Knight is too stupid to add a legitimate defensive center or pass-first point guard, and the ownership is too wary of making long-term investments when the situation is in flux.

I think that's the player with the best fit though...

[mardigan]

All I know is that the Hawks better not ever get rid of Marvin, that guy is going to be a monster

[AFBlue]

All I know is that the Hawks better not ever get rid of Marvin, that guy is going to be a monster

As good as Marvin will be (and I think he'll be a third or fourth year bloomer like Deng), I think he's the primary candidate to go if the ownership gets turned over and Billy Knight gets fired.

Williams, because of his potential and his ability to play the 3 and 4 (though he plays the 4 now more than he should), would probably get the most in return and is producing the least of the young SF-types currently on the roster.

For Marvin's sake, I hope he's the one to get traded. With Josh Smith playing the exact same position (better) and duplicating Marvin's abilities, I don't see Marvin as ever really "breaking out". As previously mentioned, he is forced to play and guard the 4 spot too often and gets abused.

[kingsfan]

Hawks main problem is their management and their drafting "skills" They continually get forwards that they don't need. They've needed a good PG for a while, Speedy and Tyron aren't cutting it. The fact that they passed over Chris Paul must haunt them as it should. They've got some young talent they just don't know how to use it. They need a couple more pieces-PG and better C, and they might actually get somewhere.
Hey Tony, how was the weather in your area? I know tornadoes hit further south but those storms were crazy!http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/madrun.gif

[Purple & Gold]

Kwame Brown played HS ball in Atlanta, it's clear the future C of the Lakers is Bynum, and the Hawks are hurting for a legitimate Center (starting Lorenzen Wright and playing Zaza there for 30+ minutes isn't working).

The Hawks probably wouldn't give up one of their wings for him though, so either the Lakers would have to throw in an additional piece, or they would have to accept a future pick and the salary cap relief that the Hawks would provide by taking Kwame's contract straight up, or creating one of those "exceptions" so the Lakers could go out and get a player of Brown's equal contract value (not sure how this works or if it's really possible).

Having said that, Billy Knight is too stupid to add a legitimate defensive center or pass-first point guard, and the ownership is too wary of making long-term investments when the situation is in flux.

I think that's the player with the best fit though...
Well actually next year Kwame will be a $10 million expiring contract. So he will actually be a valuable trading piece. Depends what happens at the end of the year and playoffs. If he plays well it will up his value even more. I like Josh Childress though what's up with him.

[AFBlue]

Hey Tony, how was the weather in your area? I know tornadoes hit further south but those storms were crazy!http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/madrun.gif

Crazy high gusts of wind, pelting rain and hail against the house through most of the night. There were plenty of tornado warnings, mostly in surrounding counties just to the north, but no touchdowns in my area that I was aware of. Still....I got no sleep.

On your Hawks assessment, which we've discussed before, I totally agree.

[AFBlue]

Well actually next year Kwame will be a $10 million expiring contract. So he will actually be a valuable trading piece. Depends what happens at the end of the year and playoffs. If he plays well it will up his value even more. I like Josh Childress though what's up with him.

Yeah, saw that about Kwame when I did a little research after posting. The reason I didn't edit the post is that Kwame is honestly the only player I can see that has value to the Hawks...other than Kobe that is.

While Kwame's $$ come off the books in summer 08, the Hawks could potentially swing a deal where they take on his contract this summer and essentially create a $9M exception for the Lakers to use, or not use, on a player in free agency. Basically the Lakers would trade Kwame and give themselves the opportunity to grab a guy like Gerald Wallace. Again, I don't know if this "exception" deal is automatic, but I know something to this effect occured with the Pacers and Hornets, which is how Indiana was able to sign Al Harrington.

On Childress....He is a scrappy player with a horrible looking shot that seems to fall most of the time. He plays SG for the Hawks, but is more of a SF type and should guard 3s. He doesn't have as much upside as the other young wing players on the Hawks, but the coaches and FO love his intensity and work ethic.

[Purple & Gold]

Yeah, saw that about Kwame when I did a little research after posting. The reason I didn't edit the post is that Kwame is honestly the only player I can see that has value to the Hawks...other than Kobe that is.

While Kwame's $$ come off the books in summer 08, the Hawks could potentially swing a deal where they take on his contract this summer and essentially create a $9M exception for the Lakers to use, or not use, on a player in free agency. Basically the Lakers would trade Kwame and give themselves the opportunity to grab a guy like Gerald Wallace. Again, I don't know if this "exception" deal is automatic, but I know something to this effect occured with the Pacers and Hornets, which is how Indiana was able to sign Al Harrington.

On Childress....He is a scrappy player with a horrible looking shot that seems to fall most of the time. He plays SG for the Hawks, but is more of a SF type and should guard 3s. He doesn't have as much upside as the other young wing players on the Hawks, but the coaches and FO love his intensity and work ethic.
Well I guess we don't make good trade partners. We have Kwame's expiring, some young players (Farmar, Turiaf), and picks to trade. Looks like you guys don't need any expirings or young players. Just the opposite you guys are looking to pick up a big player. I like Childress he should end up being a good player. But he looks like the odd man out. I also think he can be had for a reasonable price. That's why I asked about him.

[AFBlue]

I like Childress he should end up being a good player. But he looks like the odd man out. I also think he can be had for a reasonable price. That's why I asked about him.

You make an assumption that would normally be true....but Billy Knight is FAR from reasonable.

Childress might be the guy that goes when the Hawks finally decide to make a move, and my guess is that they'd take on a proven point guard or center in return, of which the Lakers have neither.

[AFBlue]

J-Smoove last night (2 Mar) against the Wizards...

24pts, 14rebs, 7blks, 2asts, 2stls

Marvin Williams (21pts, 6rebs) and J-Chill (16pts, 8rebs) also had good games. But, when three PGs play and go a combined 1-10 from the floor, it doesn't matter.

[monosylab1k]

Williams, because of his potential and his ability to play the 3 and 4 (though he plays the 4 now more than he should), would probably get the most in return and is producing the least of the young SF-types currently on the roster.

Unfortunately I think this is true too. I really think he'll be something special, but when Billy Knight gets shipped out of town, I think Marvin Williams will be the scapegoat and the "face" of what has been going wrong for the Hawks lately, mainly only because of how well Chris Paul is playing in comparison.

I think it would be their biggest mistake yet to let him go, though.

[Purple & Gold]

You make an assumption that would normally be true....but Billy Knight is FAR from reasonable.

Childress might be the guy that goes when the Hawks finally decide to make a move, and my guess is that they'd take on a proven point guard or center in return, of which the Lakers have neither.
Well I doubt you could get that for him. Proven point guards and centers are not that easy to get. Your best bet would be to trade one of the other players, package him for a big name, or spend some money and sign a free-agent.

[AFBlue]

Well I doubt you could get that for him. Proven point guards and centers are not that easy to get. Your best bet would be to trade one of the other players, package him for a big name, or spend some money and sign a free-agent.

I bet they could snag Bibby from the Kings with one of the SF. They could probably also get Miller from the 76ers. Baron Davis of the Warriors, Luke Ridnour/Earl Watson of Sonics, Jamal Tinsley (Pacers), and they could probably get Marbury/Francis from the Knicks.

Center is more difficult because there just aren't that many available (via trade or free agency), which is why they should tank the rest of the season and pray for the #1 pick (Oden).

Bottom line is that the Hawks could significantly improve their team if they were willing to trade away one of their young guys to do it. But as of now, they aren't willing, so they won't improve significantly.

[monosylab1k]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=270307001 Just when I thought they were purposely tanking to keep Phoenix from grabbing their 1st rounder, they do something like this.

Very nice. Especially with no Johnson or Marvin. Hotel Zaza played great. There are times when that guy looks like he could develop into another Pau Gasol. Other times he looks godawful. I guess that's the problem with just about every youngster on this team tho.

[monosylab1k]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2791587

shit. joe johnson's season could be finished. maybe this team will be in the greg oden sweepstakes after all.

[AFBlue]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2791587

shit. joe johnson's season could be finished. maybe this team will be in the greg oden sweepstakes after all.

Could make the Hawks for the rest of this season unbearable to watch (well they were close before then), but it does bode well for their chances to get a top 3 spot. The problem is, unless the Hawks get the #1 spot and draft Oden, there are a bunch of soft, skinny PF types (and Durant) that don't fit a need for the Hawks. No PG is worth a top 3 pick and no C outside of Oden is either. I think in this situation they would have to take the best player available and then explore trade options....

[kingsfan]

They had an awesome game last nite, I was there and Gil was very frustrated. They were blocking everything and Zaza played great. They had 3 starters out and still managed to win, although the Wizs looked very tired and played like it for the most part, they got energized toward the end of the 4th but then it was too late. I guess having that B2B and coming form Toronto was too much for them.

[AFBlue]

Zaza is far and away the best acquisition of the Billy Knight era. I know Joe Johnson is an all-star, but they had to give up two first-round picks and pay him all-star money. Zaza came for a mere $4M a season and just turned 23 years old. I know he's still inconsistent, but he can be a decent starter in this league for years.

BTW, Chad Ford said in a round-a-bout way that Spencer Hawes and Joakim Noah were the best fits (outside of Oden of course).

[monosylab1k]

Zaza is far and away the best acquisition of the Billy Knight era. I know Joe Johnson is an all-star, but they had to give up two first-round picks and pay him all-star money. Zaza came for a mere $4M a season and just turned 23 years old. I know he's still inconsistent, but he can be a decent starter in this league for years.

BTW, Chad Ford said in a round-a-bout way that Spencer Hawes and Joakim Noah were the best fits (outside of Oden of course).

If the Hawks don't win the Oden/Durant sweepstakes, I'd love to see Noah go there. Of course, this is going to create even more of a logjam at forward, but at that point they'd have some serious trading chips to get that PG they need.

[AFBlue]

If the Hawks don't win the Oden/Durant sweepstakes, I'd love to see Noah go there. Of course, this is going to create even more of a logjam at forward, but at that point they'd have some serious trading chips to get that PG they need.

Yeah that'd be the smart thing to do. Too bad Billy Knight isn't smart. He'd probably reach for a guy like Josh McRoberts. But the courtroom talk is ongoing in Maryland. I can only hope that Steve Belkin wins out and fires that sorry sack of crap before the June draft.

[AFBlue]

Josh Smith with 32pts last night. This kid is special....

Too bad they had to win the game as well. I'm sure they'll place themselves out of the running for a top 3 pick with just decent enough play...

[AFBlue]

J-Smoove with another HUGE night last night. Even ESPN wrote something about Smith and the Hawks in today's "Daily Dime".

Anyway, here's the stat-line:

26pts, 17rebs, 5asts, 4stls, 3blks on 11/20 from the field

In retrospect, the Joe Johnson injury might be a blessing in disguise. If Smith can gain the confidence to be an upper-echelon player and other guys like Marvin Williams & J-Chill step up as well, it could bode well for the future of this team. At the least, it will show Joe Johnson that he doesn't have to shoulder the offensive load...

[bdictjames]

I dont know why, I just dont trust the word "potential".

[monosylab1k]

J-Smoove with another HUGE night last night. Even ESPN wrote something about Smith and the Hawks in today's "Daily Dime".

Anyway, here's the stat-line:

26pts, 17rebs, 5asts, 4stls, 3blks on 11/20 from the field

In retrospect, the Joe Johnson injury might be a blessing in disguise. If Smith can gain the confidence to be an upper-echelon player and other guys like Marvin Williams & J-Chill step up as well, it could bode well for the future of this team. At the least, it will show Joe Johnson that he doesn't have to shoulder the offensive load...

Incredible that the game last night had some playoff implications for both teams involved.

It's only a matter of time before everybody sees just how great Smith is. He's one of the top 5 most fun players in the league to watch...it's too bad nobody gives a crap about his team right now.

It's been said for years, but I finally believe it: next season the Hawks are going to be great.

[monosylab1k]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270319001

Childress and Zaza did most of the scoring damage.

Josh Smith didn't shoot well, but he pitched in 3 blocks, 9 pts, 12 boards, and 10 assists....only one point away from a triple-double! :bang

This team is so close to taking the next step.

[CruelMonkey]

Thanks for kicking our asses :pctoss

[kingsfan]

Good as JJ is, one thing I've noticed since he's been out, they play more like a team. Zaza has really stepped up and instead of having 1 dominant force, the whole team is getting better numbers and that can only improve their confidence which is important for young players. If they could get a real PG they'd be in the POs.

[AFBlue]

Good as JJ is, one thing I've noticed since he's been out, they play more like a team. Zaza has really stepped up and instead of having 1 dominant force, the whole team is getting better numbers and that can only improve their confidence which is important for young players. If they could get a real PG they'd be in the POs.

J-Chill even made a comment about it in one of the articles I read....they had 32 assists. I hope that JJ sees he has some very competent pieces around him and that he can trust some of his teammates to shoulder the scoring load. He can be a good distributor from the wing position and give guys like Smith/Childress more looks.

On the "real PG" thing, I think they've really solved their problem by giving up a pick in the 30s during a potentially VERY deep draft to get a guy in Anthony Johnson who went 1-9 from the field last night....good call Billy Knight! God I can't fucking stand that guy!

[bdictjames]

If Smith becomes a good jump-shooter, Hawks could be a playoff team in the East. Seriously, they need a good center in the middle, too bad Harrington's gone.

[mardigan]

Marvin Williams is the truth!

[monosylab1k]

Marvin Williams is the truth!

Hell yes he is! Or at least he will be, haha!

[AFBlue]

If Smith becomes a good jump-shooter, Hawks could be a playoff team in the East. Seriously, they need a good center in the middle, too bad Harrington's gone.

Sorry, but I guess you don't watch many Hawks games. Smith has a silky smooth jumper, but he falters when he relies on it too much rather than slashing to the basket and drawing contact. He's not a great shooter (Redd, Allen), but he's a pretty good one.

[monosylab1k]

Shelden Williams got obliterated by Shaq last night. That guy is just like everyone else on the team....sometimes he looks like an All-Star, but more often he looks like a chump.

[mardigan]

Nicely done Mono

[monosylab1k]

Nicely done Mono

Same to you. This needs to be done more often when obvious baiting and trolling goes on. :lol

[AFBlue]

Shelden Williams got obliterated by Shaq last night. That guy is just like everyone else on the team....sometimes he looks like an All-Star, but more often he looks like a chump.

Shelden is a huge chump. Played 5 minutes in a loss to the Bulls last night (April 1st). While I thought drafting Marvin over Chris Paul was the biggest draft misstep of Billy Knight, I'm beginning to think this one sucked bigger. He has drastically underacheived this year.

Marvin Williams, on the other hand, is coming on as a scoring threat and were it not for Josh Smith totally outdoing him in every category, people would be talking about him. It's too bad Williams plays the same positions as Smith and will never be out from under his shadow until the Hawks trade one of them...

Williams last night: 16pts 8 rebs

Smith: 24pts 12rebs 3asts and 5blks

[kingsfan]

I agree with you about Shelden, I still don't know why they did that. Zaza has cooled off considerably the last few games.

[AFBlue]

I agree with you about Shelden, I still don't know why they did that. Zaza has cooled off considerably the last few games.

Billy did that because he finally listened to every critic saying that you can't build a team out of 6'8 swingmen. Unfortunately, he decided to heed that advice when the talent pool was damn near drained of big, inside guys. Shelden in the 2007 draft goes in the mid-late first round.

Zaza is a young PF playing out of position and deferring to his more shot-happy teammates. He's got the talent, consistency will come with time/experience.

[AFBlue]

Josh Smith was suspended for the next two games....good kid, bad choice.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2830897


Hawks suspend Smith two games

ATLANTA -- Atlanta Hawks forward Josh Smith was suspended by the team for two games on Monday, one day after an expletive-filled tirade at coach Mike Woodson late in a loss to the Philadelphia 76ers.

Smith's suspension was announced by general manager Billy Knight in a release. Knight said Smith was suspended for the next two games "for conduct detrimental to the team."

Smith cursed at Woodson on the bench late in regulation and early in overtime before Woodson finally sent the third-year player to the locker room.

Smith was informed of the suspension when he reported for practice on Monday. He will miss home games against Boston on Tuesday and against Washington on Friday.

"I'm going to take my punishment like a man," Smith told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Monday. "I know I was wrong. I'll have some time to clear my head and be ready to go this weekend."

Smith, known for his powerful dunks and blocked shots, is averaging 16.1 points and 8.6 rebounds. He ranks second in the league with 2.91 blocked shots per game.

Smith had 16 points and four rebounds in the Hawks' 109-104 loss to the 76ers.

There's another article written by John Hollinger that says Josh's latest tirade came at a bad time, when there was talk about him getting a $60M extension this off-season....now the GMs will at least give pause before considering putting that kind of money on the table.

[monosylab1k]

That's a shame...i'm sure this tirade was simply from Josh being sick of losing. He's saying the right things now, and hopefully this is just another stepping stone for him to become a more mature player. The more I see him, the more I think he's got superstar abilities...it's just gonna take a little more time.

[monosylab1k]

tonight is the night! GO HAWKS! winning this lottery is a bit of a longshot for them but tonight could truly be the night when this franchise turns around!

[kingsfan]

I'd be very happy if they got 1 of the top 2 picks, or even the third but they'd probably fuck it up with another forward that they don't need. Damn management sucks and they can't draft worth a shit.

[Findog]

tonight is the night! GO HAWKS! winning this lottery is a bit of a longshot for them but tonight could truly be the night when this franchise turns around!

Otherwise known as keep Phoenix out of the lottery!

[AFBlue]

Otherwise known as keep Phoenix out of the lottery!

:lol

Well I guess it could work out for more than just Atlanta. I'm sincerely hoping that the Hawks end up with the #1 pick....then fire Billy Knight (j/k...not really). This is a young team that needs some development and Oden could step into that development phase as a major piece. Just thinking about the possibility gets me excited....

Oden at 5 working inside, Marvin at the 4 working the perimeter, Smith at the 3, Johnson at the 2, and Chill/Pachulia coming off the bench....what am I missing?

Oh yeah, the PG thing....okay so this draft won't be a fix-all, but it will certainly help.

A CRAZY SUGGESTION THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN:

Oden has come out and said he would like to be paired with his HS and College teammated Mike Conley Jr. in the NBA. If the Pacers manage not to get a top 3 pick, and the Hawks are drafting #1 it is conceiveable that the Hawks would be in a position to draft BOTH Oden and Conley....craziness!

[monosylab1k]

A CRAZY SUGGESTION THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN:

Oden has come out and said he would like to be paired with his HS and College teammated Mike Conley Jr. in the NBA. If the Pacers manage not to get a top 3 pick, and the Hawks are drafting #1 it is conceiveable that the Hawks would be in a position to draft BOTH Oden and Conley....craziness!

That would be so freakin awesome.

Either way, this will very likely be a winner of a draft for Atlanta, unles Billy Knight finds some way to screw it all up.

Either they're gonna get a top 3 pick and have a shot at Oden/Durant, or they lose out there but have the Indiana pick to fall back on, meaning they will be in prime position to grab Mike Conley or Acie Law.

If they end up gettin screwed out of BOTH picks....wow... :depressed

it's not gonna happen though! :lol

[Horry For 3!]

I hope the Hawks get a Top 3 pick tonight. Fuck the Suns!

[lordswing]

Living in Atlanta, I hope the Hawks don't get boned in this draft, I really do. You can only stand so many Chic'FilA promotion nights, before you get sick of the losing and empty seats

[monosylab1k]

Fuck Yeah!!! Top 3 Pick For Atlanta!!!

[monosylab1k]

SHIT!!! NO GREG ODEN!! GODDAMMIT!!!!!!

the third pick is still very nice though.

[mardigan]

They can get a great player at 3, and either Conley or Law with their 11th, they could make big improvements through this draft

[monosylab1k]

They can get a great player at 3, and either Conley or Law with their 11th, they could make big improvements through this draft

Oh yeah, this is definitely a GREAT night for the Hawks....but it would have been nice to get a complete franchise resurrection with Oden or Durant....now they definitely have their PG of the future and then another nice pick too.

So what should they do with the #3 pick? Considering their logjam at the forward position, it's not necessarily a given that they take a guy like Horford or Wright.

I'd LOVE for Corey Brewer to be a Hawk....but I also wouldn't mind trading out of the #3 spot for the right price.

[mardigan]

Maybe take a chance on Yi?

[monosylab1k]

Okay I'm gonna start the official "Draft Corey Brewer and Mike Conley!" campaign here for the Hawks.

This team is playoff bound next season!

[AFBlue]

This is ALMOST the perfect scenario for the Hawks (just missing out on top 2 hurts), and it gets me excited to see this team in action.

It's tough to project what the Hawks will do with this pick, seeing as how they've drafted both talent-over-need (M. Williams) and need-over-talent (S. Williams) in recent years.

If they choose need-over-talent, I think they reach a bit and grab Mike Conley Jr. with the #3 pick, knowing that he will most likely be gone by #11. Under this same philosophy, they could also grab Joakim Noah....who would provide toughness, rebounding, shot-blocking and great energy to the floor.

If they choose talent-over-need, it could go a number of different directions....

Corey Brewer is an incredibly versatile player and a great defender, but everyone would kill Knight for taking yet another swingman.

Brendan Wright is an extremely athletic and lengthy PF with good inside game, but he doesn't have the weight (as of now) to hang in the post and doesn't have the reliable outside shot (a la LaMarcus Aldridge) to fall back on.

Yi Jianlin is the flavor of the month with a great face-the-basket game and good athleticism, but the Hawks don't need another one of those outside-in players.

Al Horford is a tough inside player with great athleticism, a developing outside shot, and good intensity, but Hawks drafted Shelden Williams last year to bring that interior toughness.

Overall, I think the safest/best pick is Horford. While he duplicates many of the talents of Shelden, he is just flat-out better, plays with a greater intensity, and has more upside. He's also a better athlete with the ability to play the running game.

Here's a scenario I could see....

Atlanta takes Al Horford at #3 and then has their choice between a seasoned college PG with limited upside (Law) and a raw, high-potential PG (Crittenton). I would think with local ties (GTech) and the size/athleticism combo that scouts drool over, the Hawks would take Crittenton and wait a year or two to hand him the keys, with temporary guys Lue and Claxton filling the void.

Thems my thoughts on the Atlanta Hawks draft possibilities.

Side Note: The only downside to the Hawks not giving up their pick (as well as Diaw proving lazy and crappy in season 2 w/ suns) is that Billy Knight will continue to have a job. All I can hope for now is that Belkin wins the court case, fires Knight and hires someone that will actually comprehend how to build a playoff-calibur team...sadly Mono, I don't think they make the playoffs until this guy is gone.

[BacktoBasics]

Joakim Noah won't amount to much. He'll be a slightly better Bo Outlaw. I like Brewer and Conley on the Hawks. Maybe trade down a sport or two and still get him (Conley). I really think he'd make a difference for the open floor talent Atlanta has, plus he's tough and strong leader.

[mardigan]

If Im the Hawks I take Wright at 3, then hope that Conley slides to 11, and if he doesnt have a nice consolation prize in Acie

[AFBlue]

Joakim Noah won't amount to much. He'll be a slightly better Bo Outlaw. I like Brewer and Conley on the Hawks. Maybe trade down a sport or two and still get him (Conley). I really think he'd make a difference for the open floor talent Atlanta has, plus he's tough and strong leader.

You could certainly make a case for Conley, and that might just be where he goes because he's not too much of a reach at #3 and does fill a need.

Of course, what I love is that this makes Billy Knight look like an utter jackass because he traded away the 35th pick in arguably the deepest draft in NBA history on another backup PG, in Anthony Johnson, when he already had two....Claxton and Lue.

The big question about taking Conley at #3 is who will be available at #11.

I think Noah could still be there, if teams fall out of love with him, and I think he's great at that spot.

They could also hope that a guy like Spencer Hawes drops to them.

They could also take Splitter and hope he can work a reasonable buyout with Tau.

The reports that Hibbert is going back to school are a big hit, because I think they would've taken a hard look at him as well.

All of those scenarios have big "ifs" and the other scenario has them taking YET ANOTHER swingman (Green, Thornton, Julian Wright, etc.), which would get crucified in the media.

BTW, I disagree with your assesment on Noah. He may not have a great outside shot, but he would be a great fit for the up-tempo style that Atlanta likes to play. He's the most intense, hustling player in this draft. He plays good defense and is a great rebounder. Again, he may never be an offensive force, but he'll be a factor in every play with his hustle and athleticism.

[mardigan]

BTW, I disagree with your assesment on Noah. He may not have a great outside shot, but he would be a great fit for the up-tempo style that Atlanta likes to play. He's the most intense, hustling player in this draft. He plays good defense and is a great rebounder. Again, he may never be an offensive force, but he'll be a factor in every play with his hustle and athleticism.
Varajao 2.0

[AFBlue]

If Im the Hawks I take Wright at 3, then hope that Conley slides to 11, and if he doesnt have a nice consolation prize in Acie

As it stands right now, I don't think Conley makes it out of the top 10, and sadly I don't think Acie works on this Atlanta squad.

Yes, he's a floor general and a playmaker, but he doesn't have the athleticism to play the up-and-down game that Atlanta like with their roster full of 6'8 swingmen playing every position on the floor.

Also, I'm not high on Brendan Wright. While he's got incredible athleticism and imposing wingspan (helping to block shots and grab boards), he simply isn't strong/big enough to play 4 in the NBA. I'm aware they said the same thing about LaMarcus Aldridge, but he has a nice 18-footer that he hit with enough regularity to keep him in the game on the NBA level. Brendan Wright could be great in 3-5 years, but he doesn't come to the NBA with that body and skill set ready to contribute in the next two.

[JamStone]

I don't think Atlanta risks Conley not being there at #11. He would be great fit for the Hawks. I could see Atlanta trading that #3 down a couple slots to Boston so Boston can get the big of their choice out of Horford, Wright, or even Hibbert. And, Atlanta will still have that #5 pick to get Conley at a little more of a discounted salary, and maybe they can pick up a future pick or acquire someone like Ryan Gomes in the process. With that #11 pick, the Hawks will probably have a few choices of big men. If Noah is there, I think you take him for value. But, Spencer Hawes might be available.

I think Noah will be much better than a Bo Outlaw type. I think people really think he's not as good as advertised because he has weird technique with his jumper and he is very skinny. He is crazy long and he doesn't get tired. He would fit better in a uptempo system like Phoenix, Denver, or Golden State. And, if he can find the right fit, I think he could be very good.

[monosylab1k]

I think at worst case he's Varejao.

Best case he's Kirilenko without a shot.

Either way, Joakim Noash could be a quality player for Atlanta.

[mardigan]

Also, I'm not high on Brendan Wright. While he's got incredible athleticism and imposing wingspan (helping to block shots and grab boards), he simply isn't strong/big enough to play 4 in the NBA. I'm aware they said the same thing about LaMarcus Aldridge, but he has a nice 18-footer that he hit with enough regularity to keep him in the game on the NBA level. Brendan Wright could be great in 3-5 years, but he doesn't come to the NBA with that body and skill set ready to contribute in the next two.
See, and I love Wright, think he could be amazing. He reminds me of a little shorter Tyson Chandler with more offensive ability and upside. But you could very well be right as well, he could be destroyed in the NBA

[AFBlue]

Varajao 2.0

Varajao...times 10. These two are commonly lumped together for two reasons. One is the hair and two is the fiery attitude...but that's where it stops.

Varajao on defense is prone to taking charges (most on questionable flops), while Noah has the ability and desire to send anything you put up into row 7. Noah is also a much better rebounder than Varajao. Noah is also a better athlete than Varajao. I also happen to think that Noah's offensive game is a little better. I understand the wacky jumpshot, but I think that leads people to perceive Noah as offensively inept....not true, this kid can put up points if he needs to.

[monosylab1k]

How about they take Brewer at 3, then package Childress + #11 for a pick in the 6-9 range to take Conley. Does anyone think that could work?

If they take Brewer, then Childress is expendable. And he's still a very young player with a ton of talent. Plus there isn't a huge dropoff in talent from the 6-9 spot to the 11 spot in this draft.

[mardigan]

Varajao...times 10. These two are commonly lumped together for two reasons. One is the hair and two is the fiery attitude...but that's where it stops.

Varajao on defense is prone to taking charges (most on questionable flops), while Noah has the ability and desire to send anything you put up into row 7. Noah is also a much better rebounder than Varajao. Noah is also a better athlete than Varajao. I also happen to think that Noah's offensive game is a little better. I understand the wacky jumpshot, but I think that leads people to perceive Noah as offensively inept....not true, this kid can put up points if he needs to.
I dont see it. the kid had no jump shot, not very many back to the basket moves, and cant back anyone down because of his lack of strength. I think his best case scenario is Varejao, I dont think he will ever affect a game offensively except for put backs and hustle points. I dont think he is very good personally.

[monosylab1k]

I dont see it. the kid had no jump shot, not very many back to the basket moves, and cant back anyone down because of his lack of strength. I think his best case scenario is Varejao, I dont think he will ever affect a game offensively except for put backs and hustle points. I dont think he is very good personally.

I'm not high on Noah either, but I think he's got alot more natural talent than Varejao. Also, he's got leadership abilities and other intangibles that will really help out a young team that looks directionless alot of the time. He'll never be a great player, but he could be a key component and a "glue guy" on a championship team.

[AFBlue]

I don't think Atlanta risks Conley not being there at #11. He would be great fit for the Hawks. I could see Atlanta trading that #3 down a couple slots to Boston so Boston can get the big of their choice out of Horford, Wright, or even Hibbert. And, Atlanta will still have that #5 pick to get Conley at a little more of a discounted salary, and maybe they can pick up a future pick or acquire someone like Ryan Gomes in the process. With that #11 pick, the Hawks will probably have a few choices of big men. If Noah is there, I think you take him for value. But, Spencer Hawes might be available.

I think Noah will be much better than a Bo Outlaw type. I think people really think he's not as good as advertised because he has weird technique with his jumper and he is very skinny. He is crazy long and he doesn't get tired. He would fit better in a uptempo system like Phoenix, Denver, or Golden State. And, if he can find the right fit, I think he could be very good.

I wish I shared your optimism about the Hawks making smart draft-day moves, but I've lived in this area for too long and have become accustomed to Billy Knight's series of questionable decisions. That doesn't mean I think they pass on Conley Jr. If he's their top-rated guy, I think they'll snag him at #3, but I wouldn't presume to suggest that Billy Knight would actually do something as intelligent as trading down to get Conley for a better value at a lower pick. Unless Boston comes to them with the idea because they want to make sure they get their guy, I think Atlanta stands pat.

[JamStone]

How about they take Brewer at 3, then package Childress + #11 for a pick in the 6-9 range to take Conley. Does anyone think that could work?

If they take Brewer, then Childress is expendable. And he's still a very young player with a ton of talent. Plus there isn't a huge dropoff in talent from the 6-9 spot to the 11 spot in this draft.

At some point, they are going to have to stop taking versatile swingmen/combo forwards and get betteer players at the power positions. Pachulia should be a back-up center, Lorenzen Wright should be insurance, and Shelden Williams should not have been a lottery pick. They need better quality at the 4/5. Corey Brewer is not only redundant, but unnecessary.

[AFBlue]

See, and I love Wright, think he could be amazing. He reminds me of a little shorter Tyson Chandler with more offensive ability and upside. But you could very well be right as well, he could be destroyed in the NBA

I could see Wright going that direction as well. What I'll say is that with Wright, more than anyone else in this draft I think, is a projection pick based on what he could become....what he gives you in the immediate future with his lack of size and lack of perimeter skills is questionable.

I think we should just agree to disagree on this one...

[monosylab1k]

At some point, they are going to have to stop taking versatile swingmen/combo forwards and get betteer players at the power positions. Pachulia should be a back-up center, Lorenzen Wright should be insurance, and Shelden Williams should not have been a lottery pick. They need better quality at the 4/5. Corey Brewer is not only redundant, but unnecessary.

I think for a young team with their talent level, their best chance at quick success is to adopt a run-n-gun Phoenix Suns type of small ball offense.

If they get Conley and Brewer, they can run a lineup of Conley, Johnson, Brewer, Smith, and Marvin Williams out there and absolutely run people to death. Plus, Josh Smith and Corey Brewer are going to be defensive beasts, so they can still play defese.

Also, I think you underrate Zaza and Shelden...I think they both are gonna come up big next year. Shelden may not be worthy of a lottery pick but he's going to be a very solid player for them.

[mardigan]

I could see Wright going that direction as well. What I'll say is that with Wright, more than anyone else in this draft I think, is a projection pick based on what he could become....what he gives you in the immediate future with his lack of size and lack of perimeter skills is questionable.

I think we should just agree to disagree on this one...
Hey Tony, I see that Royal is going to be a free agent. I saw him play a lot at Texas and remember him having steller d, what would you think of him as a backup on the Spurs? Also, the more I think about it, the more I think the Hawks have to take Horford

[AFBlue]

I dont see it. the kid had no jump shot, not very many back to the basket moves, and cant back anyone down because of his lack of strength. I think his best case scenario is Varejao, I dont think he will ever affect a game offensively except for put backs and hustle points. I dont think he is very good personally.

Actually, he has a jumpshot it's just ugly. You're right about his low-post moves and slight frame, but that's pointing out his obvious offensive problems...he's has much more upside than Varajao on the defense and rebounding. Maybe he's Varajao 2.0 on offense, but he's Varajao times 10 on D.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one as well.

[AFBlue]

At some point, they are going to have to stop taking versatile swingmen/combo forwards and get betteer players at the power positions. Pachulia should be a back-up center, Lorenzen Wright should be insurance, and Shelden Williams should not have been a lottery pick. They need better quality at the 4/5. Corey Brewer is not only redundant, but unnecessary.

Actually, Pachulia is good enough to be the starting PF and Shelden should be the backup. Lorenzen shouldn't have a job. The problem is personnel.

Because the Hawks want to run an up-tempo style, and because they want to get both Marvin Williams and Josh Smith playing time, they start Marvin at the 4. Sadly, I think this hurts his development because he's much more of a 3. That means Pachulia is forced to play the 5 and Shelden gets squeezed for minutes.

Obviously the solution is to trade one (or two) of the swing guys for a legitimate PF/C, but as I'll keep reiterating....Billy Knight is arguably the worst GM in all of sports and would never admit to creating a greatly talented, but horribly flawed team. I don't think any of the three (Childress, Smith, or M. Williams) are going to be moved in the near future.

Overall though, I completely agree with your sentiment.

[AFBlue]

I think for a young team with their talent level, their best chance at quick success is to adopt a run-n-gun Phoenix Suns type of small ball offense.

If they get Conley and Brewer, they can run a lineup of Conley, Johnson, Brewer, Smith, and Marvin Williams out there and absolutely run people to death. Plus, Josh Smith and Corey Brewer are going to be defensive beasts, so they can still play defese.

Also, I think you underrate Zaza and Shelden...I think they both are gonna come up big next year. Shelden may not be worthy of a lottery pick but he's going to be a very solid player for them.

Mono, you're forgetting about getting minutes to Josh Childress, who is really more of a 3 but will get most of his minutes at the 2.

The other thing I'll say is that it's already a stretch for Marvin to be playing most of his minutes at the 4, it would be an incredible stretch to play him at the 5.

The only way it's possible to do what you suggest is to hire Nellie away from Golden State.

On your second assertion, I agree that both Pachulia and Shelden could play big roles as both performed well down the stretch. I think Shelden gets an unfair shake because he got picked above his supposed value and had the nagging shoulder injury that really limited his production....both can be big for them.

I disagree with your Brewer assessment though...no way he gets added to the fray without trades going down. Wait, it's Billy Knight so I'll revise....no way the Hawks are successful and manage to get each player the court time they deserve if they take Brewer and don't make a trade(s).

[AFBlue]

Hey Tony, I see that Royal is going to be a free agent. I saw him play a lot at Texas and remember him having steller d, what would you think of him as a backup on the Spurs? Also, the more I think about it, the more I think the Hawks have to take Horford

Ivey plays with good defensive intensity, but as crazy as it sounds he makes Jacque Vaughn look like Kobe Bryant on offense. He's much bigger than Vaughn, which would help against the Deron Williams' of the world, but I'm not sure about his quickness.

I appreciated him in Atlanta, but I have to be honest...he started at one point for the Hawks during the regular season, but he would have a tough time seeing the court on the Spurs' summer league team, let alone time on the active roster or on court. Sorry to kill that idea....

[mardigan]

Ivey plays with good defensive intensity, but as crazy as it sounds he makes Jacque Vaughn look like Kobe Bryant on offense. He's much bigger than Vaughn, which would help against the Deron Williams' of the world, but I'm not sure about his quickness.

I appreciated him in Atlanta, but I have to be honest...he started at one point for the Hawks during the regular season, but he would have a tough time seeing the court on the Spurs' summer league team, let alone time on the active roster or on court. Sorry to kill that idea....
Its cool I was just wondering, seem to remember him sucking at offense at UT. Just trying to figure out who the SPurs can look at in free agency at the point spot.

[AFBlue]

On who the Hawks take, it's Billy Knight so you never know. Once he falls in love with a player, regardless of need or relative value, he's commited to taking that person. He fell in love with Marvin two years ago, despite the clear need for a PG, and he fell in love with Shelden last year, despite clearly better players still being on the draft board (Roy, Foye, and Gay).

If he falls in love with Conley Jr., he'll take him at three. If he falls in love with Noah, he'll take him at three....trust me.

[JamStone]

Hawks fans have to hope that it's only Conley or Noah he might fall in love with, because either of those two would be good draft picks, even if they are taken higher than their value. Hawks fans should worry more if he falls in love with another swing player/combo forward, or someone entirely out of the blue.

[mardigan]

Hawks fans have to hope that it's only Conley or Noah he might fall in love with, because either of those two would be good draft picks, even if they are taken higher than their value. Hawks fans should worry more if he falls in love with another swing player/combo forward, or someone entirely out of the blue.
I would much rather have Horford than Noah

[AFBlue]

I would much rather have Horford than Noah

If we're judging based on talent, I would absolutely rather have Horford than Noah. He has a much more fluid game and has shown the ability to improve...especially on the offensive end. The problem is his size (6'9, 235) and position....he's exclusively a 4.

Since the Hawks are intent on playing both Marvin Williams and Josh Smith, I think that leaves little time for another "4" to get court time. They need someone who can shift to the 5, and Noah has the height/length to do just that.

Horford = Better Talent

Noah = Better Fit

When I made my initial assessment I mentioned Horford because he's an upgrade over Shelden, and maybe he could be shifted to the 5, but I'm just not sure Horford is the right fit....again, that doesn't mean Billy won't fall in love with him.

[AFBlue]

A great article in the AJC, for some of you enthusiasts. Again, I hope the Hawks make some good decisions this June, but history prevents me from being too optomistic.

Give me Conley and Noah and all will be cool, but the chances that it's Brewer and Green are just as likely.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2007/05/23/hawks_have_over.html


Hawks have overwhelming possibilities
By Jeff Schultz | Wednesday, May 23, 2007, 12:09 AM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

There is probably something wrong with a league’s draft system when the fortunes of a franchise can turn on a bunch of pingpong balls.

Then again, if you’re the Hawks, maybe you prefer luck to the science of player selection because, as we have seen, this franchise’s science has blown up way too many laboratories.

In theory, through sheer luck, the NBA’s punch-line franchise took a step toward respectability Tuesday night. The Hawks fell into the third pick in the draft lottery. It means they get to keep a selection that had been gift-wrapped for the Phoenix Suns in the Joe Johnson trade (which suddenly looks pretty good). They also will get, as anticipated, the 11th overall pick from Indiana.

Two of the top 11 picks.

Celebrate the potential.

Or cover your eyes.

The first pick would have been a slam dunk: Greg Oden.

The second pick would have been even easier: Kevin Durant.

The third pick is a decision.

Do you want a decision?

These are the Hawks. This is Billy Knight. Visionaries, they haven’t been.

Two of the top 11 picks.

Great. I think.

This is like giving a mechanic $50,000 to build a car. Either you end up with a really nice car, or the engine stalls when you turn on the wiper blades. Kind of depends on the mechanic, and the blueprint, and the vision.

The Hawks can take Brandan Wright. Love the talent but disappeared in the tournament for North Carolina. They can take Al Horford. Really good player, but so good that he’s the third overall pick? They can take Mike Conley: Unbelievably quick, and a point guard, but was that overachievement in the tournament or actual career foreshadowing?

Two of the top 11 picks.

Two more decisions.

Pepto, anyone?

Why couldn’t it have been easy? Orlando fell into Shaquille O’Neal. San Antonio fell into David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Cleveland fell into LeBron James.

The Hawks just fall.

Portland won the lottery. The Trail Blazers were represented Tuesday by Brandon Roy. Hawks fans couldn’t miss the irony. Last year, Knight selected Shelden Williams with the fifth overall selection. Roy went to the Blazers with the next pick. He just won Rookie of the Year.

Williams was below average. He just got engaged to Candace Parker. Soon, he may not even be the best player in his house.

We all believed Knight was wrong when he drafted Boris Diaw in 2003. Turns out he was right about the player but wrong about the uniform. Diaw has been a jewel for Phoenix. Knight also drafted Josh Childress over Luol Deng in 2004, and Marvin Williams over two impact point guards, Deron Williams and Chris Paul, in 2005.

There was only a 38 percent chance of the Hawks landing in the top three, a 13 percent chance of picking third. So something broke right. Just not right enough.

As he was about to board a flight for New Jersey on Tuesday, Dominique Wilkins said he was wearing his lucky tie and commented: “The lottery can change the course of a franchise. We’re overdue for some luck.”

No. What they’re overdue for is some intelligence.

This hasn’t been a run of brilliance. The Hawks have gone eight seasons without making the playoffs. They are 97-231 over the past four years, which means Knight needs a 134-game winning streak to pull even for his tenure. (Yes, that would be record.)

In fairness to Knight (why not?), he merely is upholding a franchise standard. Drafts usually blow up with this team. In 1975, the Hawks had the first and third overall selections. They took David Thompson and Marvin Webster. Both opted for the ABA.

In 14 drafts from 1985 to 1998 — between Kevin Willis and Jason Terry — the Hawks’ first round went like this: Jon Koncak, Billy Thompson (traded for Ken Barlow), Dallas Comegys, no pick, Roy Marble, Rumeal Robinson, Stacey Augmon, Adam Keefe, Doug Edwards, no pick, Alan Henderson, Priest Lauderdale, Ed Gray and Roshown McLeod.

I realize it’s a lot easier to draft in hindsight. But should two “no picks” look so good over that span?

And now this: two of the top 11 picks.

Think of the possibilities.

Maybe not.

[lordswing]

Too bad Hibbert decided to stay, that would've made the Hawks decision a little easier I think

[Purple & Gold]

I'll be rooting for the Hawks to make the playoffs. So you can give the Suns and their whiny fans one more thing to cry about.

[AFBlue]

In light of the Oden request to play with Ohio St. and AAU teammate, Conley Jr., what do you think fo this trade....proposed in another thread.


I brought this up in another thread regarding Oden's wish to play with his longtime teammate Mike Conley Jr. Oddly enough, I think it's the Hawks that could facilitate this trade. Here's how...

Atlanta gives up the #3 pick, which the Blazers would use to select Conley Jr., plus Josh Childress (or Josh Smith if the Blazers don't budge), and a mid-salary guy in Speedy Claxton.

In return, Atlanta gets Zach Randolph to play F/C and provide the low-post scoring threat they DESPERATELY need. They should also get back a PG prospect in order to balance out the roster....say Jarret Jack, who played at local Georgia Tech.

I believe since Atlanta is under the salary cap it works....what do you think?

[monosylab1k]

I've heard that the Hawks will not be taking Conley at #3, and instead will do one of two things -

1. Trade down a few spots and take Conley there.
2. Take Al Horford with the #3 pick and then try to make a trade using their #11 pick and whatever trade bait they have in order to move up wherever they need to go in the 4-10 range and grab Conley there.

Does anyone have an article that talks about this? I heard it on the radio but I'm gonna start searching for some other sort of confirmation on this.

As long as they get Conley, I'm happy. If they end up with Horford and no Conley, I'm gonna be PISSED.

[lordswing]

I know this is unorthodox, but I'd love for the Hawks to somehow get Conley and Crittenton, fully shoring up their PG position if in fact one of them doesn't do so well. This could be done in a variety of ways, grabbing both PGs very highly, and trading both picks down in an effort to get more value out of them.

[ploto]

Childress might be the guy that goes when the Hawks finally decide to make a move, and my guess is that they'd take on a proven point guard or center in return, of which the Lakers have neither.
Rumor in Toronto is their keen interest in Jose Calderon and that they may be willing to give up Childress and a first round pick for him. They tried to trade for Jose before the trade deadline but Raptors had no interest then.

[monosylab1k]

Now it looks like they're wanting Acie Law....which is just fine with me. I'd rather have Conley, but Law has all the makings of a very nice shoot-first PG who is also a true PG, not a tweener. Lots of comparisons to Sam Cassell. As long as they dont end up with Crittendon I'll be happy.

[AFBlue]

Rumor in Toronto is their keen interest in Jose Calderon and that they may be willing to give up Childress and a first round pick for him. They tried to trade for Jose before the trade deadline but Raptors had no interest then.

Childress AND the #11 pick seems a bit much for Calderon, though I think he's certainly better than anything on the current Hawks roster.

I also hear that the Raps have shifted focus to Mikael Pietrus, and given the Warriors' need for a legitimate pass-first PG, I would think Calderon is a likely option.

[AFBlue]

Now it looks like they're wanting Acie Law....which is just fine with me. I'd rather have Conley, but Law has all the makings of a very nice shoot-first PG who is also a true PG, not a tweener. Lots of comparisons to Sam Cassell. As long as they dont end up with Crittendon I'll be happy.

Law is a much more NBA-ready prospect, which is what the Hawks need at this point. I think Law could be a better playmaker and leader than Jarret Jack, whom they were said to be targeting by trading away the #11 pick.

Law at #11 is a good value and hopefully a good sign, because they're taking an intangible-heavy basketball player over a raw athlete with upside. But I still think the Hawks need a distributor versus a scorer...

Now if they can just trade for Zach Randolph...#3 pick and Childress, and Clax should do it....

[AFBlue]

Just wanted to bring this thread to the forefront since there are so many rumors about the Hawks declining a deal that would've brought Amare Stoudamire (a.k.a. LEGITIMACY) to the Hawks franchise.

And an additional report that says the Ownership group is putting the pressure on to draft Yi ahead of Horford for business reasons....dear God, could it get any worse?

[monosylab1k]

Just wanted to bring this thread to the forefront since there are so many rumors about the Hawks declining a deal that would've brought Amare Stoudamire (a.k.a. LEGITIMACY) to the Hawks franchise.

And an additional report that says the Ownership group is putting the pressure on to draft Yi ahead of Horford for business reasons....dear God, could it get any worse?
:pctoss

:bang :bang :bang
i knew it. i fuckin KNEW IT!

i can live without the Amare trade only because I think Horford could be just as dominating as Amare, plus we can take Acie Law at 11. But to pass on Horford???!?!?!?!?!

:bang :bang :bang DAMMIT!!!!

there is no possible way to screw up this draft, but the Hawks are going to find a way to do it.....

[kingsfan]

They were raving about Yi last night and it's a city they'll let him play in. I've got a feeling that's what they're going to do. I'd take Law but I think they'll get Crittenton. They love the local kids and it would shut people up about their PG situation.
Hawks need new GM and owners if they stand a chance of getting to be good, no matter what talent they have.

[monosylab1k]

They were raving about Yi last night and it's a city they'll let him play in. I've got a feeling that's what they're going to do. I'd take Law but I think they'll get Crittenton. They love the local kids and it would shut people up about their PG situation.
Hawks need new GM and owners if they stand a chance of getting to be good, no matter what talent they have.

We have Horford and Law right in our hand and instead we take the Chinaman and fucking Crittenton?????? son of a bitch.... :depressed

[freedom&justice]

Just wanted to bring this thread to the forefront since there are so many rumors about the Hawks declining a deal that would've brought Amare Stoudamire (a.k.a. LEGITIMACY) to the Hawks franchise.

And an additional report that says the Ownership group is putting the pressure on to draft Yi ahead of Horford for business reasons....dear God, could it get any worse?

Billy Knight sucks, and just as he's about to make maybe the first good decision in this draft, Hawks' ownership decides to step in with their BS. Those owners need to get out of the way of basketball decisions or just sell the franchise. If you're gonna interfere with personnel decisions for stupid financial motivation, you're not fit to own a sports franchise.

[BacktoBasics]

Anything is better than Noah. This is the most highly overrated player in the draft. This dude will mirrow Bo Outlaw. Not that its a bad thing but he's not top 10 talent.

Conley would be a good pick or Horford.

[kingsfan]

Good choice, I'm impressed! I really thought they'd fuck up as usual but they've still got #11.

[kingsfan]

Wow I'm shocked, the Hawks drafted well http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/speechless.gif Maybe they're finally going to turn things around.

[lordswing]

yeah, i'm just surprised they didn't fuck up completely. i'm pleased

[AFBlue]

Just food for thought....

Knicks sent Channing Frye and the horrid contract of Steve Francis to the Blazers for Zach Randolph.

Hawks could've probably upped the ante with something like Josh Childress + Speedy Claxton + future pick or something....

Though I like the picks that were there, it's still sad to see that the Hawks still don't have a legitimate low-post player (O or D) or a capable facilitating PG...

[Findog]

Just food for thought....

Knicks sent Channing Frye and the horrid contract of Steve Francis to the Blazers for Zach Randolph.

Hawks could've probably upped the ante with something like Josh Childress + Speedy Claxton + future pick or something....

Though I like the picks that were there, it's still sad to see that the Hawks still don't have a legitimate low-post player (O or D) or a capable facilitating PG...

They just got one, his name is Al Horford. He'll be commanding a double-team right around his third season in the League. As much as I like Acie Law, I see him going either way in the pros. Wouldn't shock me if he ended up being real solid or a bust.

[AFBlue]

Bump...

Training camp is a time for optimism. It's a time to hope that all your off-season moves culminate and come together for the first real glimpse at what could be. And, IMO, there's no team in the NBA that should be met with more optimism than the Atlanta Hawks.

This year the Hawks have plenty reasons to be excited, and here are some of them...

1) Healthy return of a steady veteran presence...Joe Johnson. He's probably one of the most underrated players in the league, but this guy has the ability to do it all. He's a capable defender, adept passer, and lights-out shooter. He needs help, as do most NBA stars, but it looks like help may finally be coming.

2) Josh Smith continues to refine his game and grow as a player. I remember Jay Bilas on draft night saying this kid had the biggest BUST potential of anyone, and look at what he's done. Extended his range out to three-point line, concentrated on his defense, and accomplished everything through hard work. Too bad Joe Johnson is THE MAN in Atlanta, because Josh Smith could be a superstar. Still, Atlanta will settle for Smith being REALLY GOOD.

2) Ownership dispute dying down. The guy who got bought out lost a bunch of momentum in his bid to regain the team and probably blow it up. While I still say Billy Knight is a terrible GM, they've actually started to build a team that can win and I'd hate to see it get torn apart.

3) Shelden Williams is healthy. I attribute his poor play early on, to being hurt and adjusting to NBA speed/size. He'll never be an All-Star or average 20/10....but he can be a productive player for the Hawks. Even though he's not the tallest guy (6'10 at best), I see him playing the majority of his minutes at Center because of his size (260+lbs), rebounding ability, and low-post game. And that's a HUGE need position for the Hawks, with only Zaza filling that role currently.

4) The rooks are ready. Acie Law is a gritty kid with a good deal of experience in big-game situations. He'll be solid, if unspectacular, which will be an upgrade to that position. And what Horford lacks in experience, he makes up with his motor. This kid will be a spectacle. I'm convinced he'll wind up in the ROY discussion if he stays healthy.

5) This is a team no longer in search of its identity. For all the individual talent this team has had over the years, it had always failed to capitalize on that talent because it didn't have the chemistry or sense of itself. Finally, last year the team started to come together. They've continued to add more "good guys" to the mix and I can only assume that the trend for this team to find itself, and for each player to discover their role, will continue.


Will everything pan out? Doubtful
Will enough of the pieces fall together to get this team into the playoffs? Maybe
Will they be worth watching? Definitely



And I'm looking forward to it....

[monosylab1k]

Hollinger predicted a 42-40 record and the 7 seed in the playoffs....I agree :clap

[HeyIt'sMe]

Supposedly, Horford's been looking great in practice and scrimmages.

[monosylab1k]

I still wonder how things will work out with their backlog of forwards, but this team is definitely talented enough to be a playoff contender.

[AFBlue]

Supposedly, Horford's been looking great in practice and scrimmages.

It's going to be a great year for some talented rookies and I don't think Horford is an exception.

Right now, I have him #2 on my list of likely ROYs. First, and probably most obvious, is Kevin Durant. But I think Horford has a chance to be better out of the gate.

[AFBlue]

I still wonder how things will work out with their backlog of forwards, but this team is definitely talented enough to be a playoff contender.

I'm not sure it's going to be as big an issue as it was in the past. It seemed like each player found their niche later in the season.

JJ will probably play SG exclusively. Smith and Childress will rotate at SF. Marvin and Horford will rotate at PF. Shelden will get minutes at PF and C.

It'll still be interesting to watch and I'm not entirely sure that all of the forwards on this roster will be with the team in February...but if they are, I think they can still make it work.

[AFBlue]

Thoughts from the first two preseason games....

- Marvin Williams is a beast when he's aggressive. Dude got sent to the foul line 17 in a preseason game and converted 13. He still doesn't have the ability to effect the game in other ways because he won't grab a ton of rebounds, dish many assists, or block any shots....but if he's going to the hole defenses better beware.

- Al Horford is finding time on the court as a CENTER. I guess they needed a little more toughness and attitude in the middle so they're turning to Horford....and he's delivering. No earthshattering performances yet, but this kid has a non-stop motor, good athleticism, and serious skill....if he's given time on the court, he'll get there soon.

- Josh Smith had one impressive game (22-11-3-2) and another where he went 0-fer from the field. BUT, even in the bad game he was still able to make an impact. He collected 15 boards, blocked 3 shots, and had 4 assists. This kid is special.

- Childress looks healthy again and is attacking the basket. He went 11-12 from the line in the second game and shot a decent percentage from the field as well. With a crowded backcourt he'll definitely come off the bench, but he can do good things when he does.

Overall, the optimism continues. I think we'll see a Hawks team that continues to play a smallish wing-oriented lineup, but they just might have some muscle in the middle to finally solidify them.

[kingsfan]

Law got his 1st start tonight against Kidd, welcome to the NBA kid.
Smoove's having another great game and looks good so far this season.Tonight 18 pts, 6RBs, 6 assists, 5 steals and 4 blocks. This could be his breakout year.
Horford wasn't outstanding but with experience I think he'll do well.

[kingsfan]

Nice win tonight, that's 2 good wins over Mavs and Suns and their 2 losses were close, should have been wins. Nice job by Marvin (20-12) and there were 4 Hawks with dubs. Hawks are for real this year. What's impressing me most is they're playing much better D than I've seen before.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Atlanta is for real. What they lack in experience they make up for in hustle and athleticism. All of their main guys can run and jump. They all rebound very well, and they can all put the ball on the floor.

Their downfall will be making stupid mistakes at end of games. And that's not really a knock on them, it just represents their youth.

And they're looking impressive against good teams.

Beat Dallas 101-94
Lost to Detroit by 1 point
Lost to Nets by 5 points
Beat the Suns by 9 points.

Can't take a night off when you see them in your arena.

[kingsfan]

The old Hawks are back :depressed I was at the game, first chance I've had to see them in person and I was not impressed. Wizs did not play well and still won. Lack of defense, killed on points in the paint and just unenthusiastic for most of the game. They tried to come back bu not successfully. Marvin and Al were OK but smoove not playing as well as the first few games. Hopefully it was just a bad day but they looked all too familiar today. One thing I noticed was that most of them were shooting around and that doesn't usually happen. Lue shouldn't have cut his hair, it looks awful.
Nice win for the Wizs, they finally get out of the winless group.

[leroyjenkins]

i noticed acie law started tonight, but only got 14 min. was this his first start?

[kingsfan]

i noticed acie law started tonight, but only got 14 min. was this his first start?No it was his 3rd. They're looking much better so far tonite. Zaz is playing well but they are playing the Bobcats so it's not much of a gauge and it's still early.

[kingsfan]

Acie and smoove went out with leg sprains, hopefully nothing too serious, they still won.

[monosylab1k]

forgot about this thread....it's time to get it back up and running since the Hawks are in the playoff picture. They don't look nearly as impressive as I thought they would, tough. And they look even less impressive with Mike Bibby, who appears to have brought nothing but Sad Sac Kings suckage to the team.

[robbie380]

i think this is going to be a tough game for the rockets. they have trouble playing in atl and atl is pretty good at home.