Ellis: Spurs International Prospects

[Kori Ellis]

Spurs International Prospects
Last Update: Mar 2, 2007 5:05 AM

By Kori Ellis
SpursZONE.com

We regularly receive emails here at SpursZONE.com asking questions about the status of the Spurs overseas prospects. The Spurs currently hold the rights to five players who are playing internationally.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/scola2007.jpg
Luis Scola
DOB: 4/30/80
Height: 6'9
Postion: PF

The Argentinean was drafted by the Spurs with the 56th overall pick of the 2002 draft. Scola plays for Tau Ceramica in the Spanish League, where he has averaged 17.2 points (61% FG) and 6.9 rebounds in 17 games this year.

For the 2006-07 Euroleague regular season, Scola tallied 16.6 points and 5.6 rebounds per game, while shooting 59.0% from the field and 73.6% from the free throw line.

The 26-year-old is currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament where he has averaged 14.7 points and 5.0 rebounds over three games - all victories for Tau. On Wednesday, Scola scored 13 to move within just seven points of becoming the all-time Euroleague Basketball leading scorer.

The problem with bringing Scola to San Antonio has always been his buyout with his European team. NBA teams are only permitted to pay $500,000 toward an international player's buyout. Therefore, he must negotiate a buyout with his current team and pay the balance of his buyout from his NBA salary. In recent years, Scola's buyout amount was reportedly near $14 million, but that number has apparently been reduced considerably.

Most scouts consider Scola the best power forward in Europe. A terrific back to the basket scorer, Scola has great post moves on the low block.

San Antonio is expected to re-visit the possibility of bringing over Scola again this summer. His current contract with Tau reportedly runs through the 2007-08 season.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/ianmahinmi2007.jpg
Ian Mahinmi
DOB: 11/5/86
Height: 6'10
Postion: PF/C

The young Frenchman was selected by the Spurs with the 28th pick of the 2005 NBA draft. He plays for Pau-Orthez in the French League, where he has averaged 4.5 points and 3.1 rebounds in 12.8 minutes per contest this year.

For the 2006-07 Euroleague regular season, Mahinmi averaged only 4.3 points and 1.3 rebounds in just under 12 minutes per game. He shot 66.6% from the field and 78.5% from the line.

He is currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament where he has seen very little playing time, averaging 2.0 points and 1.3 rebounds.

Mahinmi is still very raw and gets into foul trouble easily. However his athleticism and defensive-style still make him a viable prospect for the Spurs in a few years.

Hopefully he will again be able to play on the Spurs summer league team this July, so Spurs fans can get a closer look at the 20-year-old bigman. This past summer, Mahinmi averaged 8.3 points and 5.7 rebounds while playing on the Spurs team at Rocky Mountain Revue.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/javtokas2007.jpg
Robertas Javtokas
DOB: 03/20/80
Height: 6'10
Postion: C

The Lithuanian center was selected by the Spurs with the 56th overall pick of the 2001 NBA draft.

Less than a year after he was drafted, Javtokas suffered extensive injuries in a motorcycle crash. He was an incredible leaper prior to the accident and has regained most of his athletic ability over the years.

After spending several seasons with Lietuvos Rytas, this summer Javtokas signed with Panathinaikos in the Greek League, where he has averaged 7.6 points and 3.5 rebounds this year.

This season he saw very little playing time in Euroleague action. In 13 Euroleague regular season games with the club, he averaged only 2.4 points and 1.5 rebounds in eight minutes per contest.

Panathinaikos is also currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament. However Javtokas has only seen action in one game - scoring five points and pulling down two boards in 12 minutes.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/sanikidze2007.jpg
Viktor Sanikidze
DOB: 4/1/86
Height: 6'9
Postion: SF

Selected in the second round of the 2004 draft, Sanikidze, a native of the Republic of Georgia, is currently playing for Baloncesto Estudiantes in Spain.

This season, the 20-year-old has seen very little playing time. In six Spanish League games, he has averaged 2.2 points in 9.5 minutes per contest. In 10 games of EuroCup play, he tallied 2.6 points per game, while hitting 10-of-12 two-pointers but only 2-of-10 three pointers.

The knock on Sanikidze has always been his frail frame and propensity for injury. He still has value to the Spurs, but they’ll need to see improvement out of him soon if he has any hopes of eventually making it to the NBA.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/karaulov2007.jpg
Sergei Karaulov
DOB: 04/15/82
Height: 7'1
Postion: C

Of the five prospects, Karaulov is the longest shot to ever see the NBA. While he’s got great size at 7-foot-1, he still has not seen much playing time overseas.

This season, he has only played in three of Khimky Moscow's 26 games. Karaulov has played for the Spurs in summer leagues in the past, but his talent level leaves a lot to be desired.

http://www.woai.com/content/sports/spurs/story.aspx?content_id=67ad8412-8c4a-4594-a6c1-c94b6d70ed0b

[Axl Van Dam]

Spurs International Prospects
Last Update: Mar 2, 2007 5:05 AM

By Kori Ellis
SpursZONE.com

We regularly receive emails here at SpursZONE.com asking questions about the status of the Spurs overseas prospects. The Spurs currently hold the rights to five players who are playing internationally.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/scola2007.jpg
Luis Scola
DOB: 4/30/80
Height: 6'9
Postion: PF

The Argentinean was drafted by the Spurs with the 56th overall pick of the 2002 draft. Scola plays for Tau Ceramica in the Spanish League, where he has averaged 17.2 points (61% FG) and 6.9 rebounds in 17 games this year.

For the 2006-07 Euroleague regular season, Scola tallied 16.6 points and 5.6 rebounds per game, while shooting 59.0% from the field and 73.6% from the free throw line.

The 26-year-old is currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament where he has averaged 14.7 points and 5.0 rebounds over three games - all victories for Tau. On Wednesday, Scola scored 13 to move within just seven points of becoming the all-time Euroleague Basketball leading scorer.

The problem with bringing Scola to San Antonio has always been his buyout with his European team. NBA teams are only permitted to pay $500,000 toward an international player's buyout. Therefore, he must negotiate a buyout with his current team and pay the balance of his buyout from his NBA salary. In recent years, Scola's buyout amount was reportedly near $14 million, but that number has apparently been reduced considerably.

Most scouts consider Scola the best power forward in Europe. A terrific back to the basket scorer, Scola has great post moves on the low block.

San Antonio is expected to re-visit the possibility of bringing over Scola again this summer. His current contract with Tau reportedly runs through the 2007-08 season.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/mahinmi2007.gif
Ian Mahinmi
DOB: 11/5/86
Height: 6'10
Postion: PF/C

The young Frenchman was selected by the Spurs with the 28th pick of the 2005 NBA draft. He plays for Pau-Orthez in the French League, where he has averaged 4.5 points and 3.1 rebounds in 12.8 minutes per contest this year.

For the 2006-07 Euroleague regular season, Mahinmi averaged only 4.3 points and 1.3 rebounds in just under 12 minutes per game. He shot 66.6% from the field and 78.5% from the line.

He is currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament where he has seen very little playing time, averaging 2.0 points and 1.3 rebounds.

Mahinmi is still very raw and gets into foul trouble easily. However his athleticism and defensive-style still make him a viable prospect for the Spurs in a few years.

Hopefully he will again be able to play on the Spurs summer league team this July, so Spurs fans can get a closer look at the 20-year-old bigman. This past summer, Mahinmi averaged 8.3 points and 5.7 rebounds while playing on the Spurs team at Rocky Mountain Revue.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/javtokas2007.jpg
Robertas Javtokas
DOB: 03/20/80
Height: 6'10
Postion: C

The Lithuanian center was selected by the Spurs with the 56th overall pick of the 2001 NBA draft.

Less than a year after he was drafted, Javtokas suffered extensive injuries in a motorcycle crash. He was an incredible leaper prior to the accident and has regained most of his athletic ability over the years.

After spending several seasons with Lietuvos Rytas, this summer Javtokas signed with Panathinaikos in the Greek League, where he has averaged 7.6 points and 3.5 rebounds this year.

This season he saw very little playing time in Euroleague action. In 13 Euroleague regular season games with the club, he averaged only 2.4 points and 1.5 rebounds in eight minutes per contest.

Panathinaikos is also currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament. However Javtokas has only seen action in one game - scoring five points and pulling down two boards in 12 minutes.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/sanikidze2007.jpg
Viktor Sanikidze
DOB: 4/1/86
Height: 6'9
Postion: SF

Selected in the second round of the 2004 draft, Sanikidze, a native of the Republic of Georgia, is currently playing for Baloncesto Estudiantes in Spain.

This season, the 20-year-old has seen very little playing time. In six Spanish League games, he has averaged 2.2 points in 9.5 minutes per contest. In 10 games of EuroCup play, he tallied 2.6 points per game, while hitting 10-of-12 two-pointers but only 2-of-10 three pointers.

The knock on Sanikidze has always been his frail frame and propensity for injury. He still has value to the Spurs, but they’ll need to see improvement out of him soon if he has any hopes of eventually making it to the NBA.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/karaulov2007.jpg
Sergei Karaulov
DOB: 04/15/82
Height: 7'1
Postion: C

Of the five prospects, Karaulov is the longest shot to ever see the NBA. While he’s got great size at 7-foot-1, he still has not seen much playing time overseas.

This season, he has only played in three of Khimky Moscow's 26 games. Karaulov has played for the Spurs in summer leagues in the past, but his talent level leaves a lot to be desired.

http://www.woai.com/content/sports/spurs/story.aspx?content_id=67ad8412-8c4a-4594-a6c1-c94b6d70ed0b

:reading Bring Mahinmi in next season. :reading

[Kori Ellis]

On Wednesday, Scola scored 13 to move within just seven points of becoming the all-time Euroleague Basketball leading scorer.

Scola might be good:)

[JPB]

Ian started yesterday against Maccabi Tel-Aviv.

1:30 into the game, one nice low-post move and... 2 fouls :bang the second one being totally unnecessary.

But I agree he's very interesting physically and defensivly, very active and mobile. That's the first thing I say to myself everytime I see him play. Well..., just after "don't foul" :bang

Nice game by Pau. They lost in the last minutes but played well.

[Kori Ellis]

Ian started yesterday against Maccabi Tel-Aviv.

1:30 into the game, one nice low-post move and... 2 fouls :bang the second one being totally unnecessary.

But I agree he's very interesting physically and defensivly, very active and mobile. That's the first thing I say to myself everytime I see him play. Well..., just after "don't foul" :bang

Nice game by Pau. They lost in the last minutes but played well.

Yeah I saw that yesterday he had 4 fouls in 3 minutes :lol

Too bad for Pau that they are 0-3 now.

[JPB]

Yeah I saw that yesterday he had 4 fouls in 3 minutes :lol

Too bad for Pau that they are 0-3 now.

They still have a chance to make the the quarter finals, well..., a slight one.

I didn't see the entire game cos of technical problems. Did your friend play, Kori ?

[BIG IRISH]

Scola wil never, never, be on the SPURS, unless RC and Pop are no longer here.

[JPB]

:reading Bring Mahinmi in next season. :reading

In fact, I'm really wondering if it wouldn't be better for him to come next year. He might not be ready but I think it would be better for him to developp in the US than in europe which may not be made for his game and his physical characteristics.

Problem is, spurs couldn't afford to use a spot for a player who wouldn't really contribute and he wouldn't go in the NBDL.

[mountainballer]

But I agree he's very interesting physically and defensivly, very active and mobile. That's the first thing I say to myself everytime I see him play. Well..., just after "don't foul" :bang


we know that he has all the physical tools. maybe someone should try to explain the basketball rules to him.
I sometimes have the impression, Ian doesn't have the slightest idea, why sometimes a foul is called or not.
he is a bit like Forrest Gump, when he played Football.

btw. Aaron Miles didn't have his best games last night, but still decent.
some weeks ago he was mentioned as a possible FA signing for the Spurs this summer and I support this. he definitly has improved his playmaking and shooting (still not great, but better now), his defense has always been decent.
I think he could develope into a solid back-up PG and would fullfill much of what the Spurs usually ask for. (defense ability, work ethic, leadership, good demeanor)

[JPB]

I think he just can't control his activity while trying to be agressive on defense.

True that Miles shooting % is a bit low for a PG but he's still young and is beginning to improve his job as leading a euroleague team.

[RC's Boss]

I hope we draft a guy fom the NCAA this year.

[RC's Boss]

It's not that I have a problem w/ Eorpleague, but i'm tired of playes being stashed away. If i'm not mistaken, we could have had Varejeo instead of Beno. At least draft some guys that can make an impact.

[Bruno]

he wouldn't go in the NBDL.

Why do you say that ?

Dleague can really be helpfull for Mahinmi in his first year in nba : he won't get playtime with Spurs and Dleague is a a very friendly league for young and raw players.

[Bruno]

and I agree about Miles, he is likely more interesting than players like Conroy. I'm quite sure he is on Spurs radar (Pau is almost Spurs' euro team) : let's hope Spurs will have a roster spot for him and that he won't chose another team over him.

[JPB]

Why do you say that ?

Dleague can really be helpfull for Mahinmi in his first year in nba : he won't get playtime with Spurs and Dleague is a a very friendly league for young and raw players.

I don't think Ian would leave Pau and the euroleague for the NBDL. That would really be a regression. The level on NBDL is to much inferior than the euroleague.

But I admit that, on paper, the earlier he could face US basketball, the better IMO. Learning the game in NBDL could be a solution but again I don't see it happening. I don't see Pau letting him go for the NBDL.

[ArgSpursFan]

Spurs International Prospects
Last Update: Mar 2, 2007 5:05 AM

By Kori Ellis
SpursZONE.com

We regularly receive emails here at SpursZONE.com asking questions about the status of the Spurs overseas prospects. The Spurs currently hold the rights to five players who are playing internationally.

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WOAI/scola2007.jpg
Luis Scola
DOB: 4/30/80
Height: 6'9
Postion: PF

The Argentinean was drafted by the Spurs with the 56th overall pick of the 2002 draft. Scola plays for Tau Ceramica in the Spanish League, where he has averaged 17.2 points (61% FG) and 6.9 rebounds in 17 games this year.



I thought somebody said he was only a good inside scorer but not a good rebounder.At 6.9 he is getting more boards tham the two spurs Centers right now(4.9 and 5.2)
I´ve got the feeling that next year will be Scola´s year to finally come down to S.A,+He´s got a big chance to be the Euroleague MVP and Win the Euroleague with Tau,So after that he won´t have nothing else to proof in Europe.
NBA TIME FOR LUIS BABY!!

[mountainballer]

and I agree about Miles, he is likely more interesting than players like Conroy. I'm quite sure he is on Spurs radar (Pau is almost Spurs' euro team) : let's hope Spurs will have a roster spot for him and that he won't chose another team over him.

assuming that the PG spot will look different next season than this year (Beno will for sure be gone and also Vaughn is a question), there should be a roster spot for a player like Miles. the question will also be, if he signs for the minimum, or if he is trying to get some more from another team. Euro teams will offer him more, after the nice showing this season with Pau.
I can't see the Spurs spend more than the min. on a player like him.

the best scenario is, that the Spurs can somehow get a proven backup PG (in the Duhon/Calderon mold - not that I thought we could get one of them) and sign Miles as the 3rd PG.
(will only happen if Spurs don't draft for example Shakur with their 2nd rounder)

[Bruno]

I don't think Ian would leave Pau and the euroleague for the NBDL.... I don't see Pau letting him go for the NBDL.


Mahinmi won't leave Pau for the Dleague (Dleague is the official name now from the NBDL).

It works like that : Mahinmi signs with Spurs his rookie contract with Spurs and during the season Spurs can send him up to three times to play some game in the Dleague. Nba teams send their young players for some games in Dleague to give them some playtime when they can't get playtime in nba.

Pau won't let him go for the NBDL because he will sign with Spurs.

[Bruno]

the best scenario is, that the Spurs can somehow get a proven backup PG (in the Duhon/Calderon mold - not that I thought we could get one of them) and sign Miles as the 3rd PG.
(will only happen if Spurs don't draft for example Shakur with their 2nd rounder)

Agree.
To me Spurs should have as backup PG a young player with upside (a project) and a solid vet.
This year Beno was the project and Vaughn was the solid vet.
Miles is a project, Spurs will need a solid vet. If they can't find a better solution, I wouldn't mind Vaughn. The edge of Vaughn/Miles (or Vaughn/2nd round pick) as backup PG is that even if it's not a great solution, it's cheap and Spurs could spend money on something more importnat like an athletic wing.

[ArgSpursFan]

Mahinmi won't leave Pau for the Dleague (Dleague is the official name now from the NBDL).

It works like that : Mahinmi signs with Spurs his rookie contract with Spurs and during the season Spurs can send him up to three times to play some game in the Dleague. Nba teams send their young players for some games in Dleague to give them some playtime when they can't get playtime in nba.

Pau won't let him go for the NBDL because he will sign with Spurs.
At his age,and with his actual BBIQs He´d need at least a full year on the Dleague.
He needs to be smarter and stronger to be on the NBA. And that will come with time.

[JPB]

Mahinmi won't leave Pau for the Dleague (Dleague is the official name now from the NBDL).

It works like that : Mahinmi signs with Spurs his rookie contract with Spurs and during the season Spurs can send him up to three times to play some game in the Dleague. Nba teams send their young players for some games in Dleague to give them some playtime when they can't get playtime in nba.

Pau won't let him go for the NBDL because he will sign with Spurs.


C'mon Bruno, I know all that :lol

My point is Pau would not let him leave (or he wouldn't like leaving) knowing he would go in NBDL. Knowing Spurs would send him to the NBDL after they signed him, if you prefer put it this way.

[Mr. Body]

Didn't they bother to examine Mahinmi's basketball IQ when salivating over his potential? He's a nice guy and all, but doesn't seem to understand the game all that well, the amount he fouls.

[Russ]

Looks like the once proud "Foreign Legion theory" has run its course.

[exstatic]

I can't believe this team has squandered away this many draft picks on players of little to no talent. I understand the diamond in the ruff theory but at some point you'd think team needs might actually be addressed in the draft.
Good theory, but that's tough to do when you are drafting 28/56 or 29/58 every year. The reason that most players drafted that late are flameouts is that they languish on the bench and don't develop at all. With a Euro, you keep a roster spot, caproom, and they still play and develop. Even utilizing the Dleague, it's YOUR team's cap that pays him, and you use one of your 13-15 roster spots even when they are "down on the farm".

I also can't believe that you're writing those guys off so easily. Karalauov is a bust, and at this point Javtokas is probably too old, but Ian is still 20, Sanikidze turned all of 21 yesterday, and Scola certainly isn't a bust, just buyout-bound to Tau. By all accounts, he can at least come in and score effectively in the post in the NBA, even if his rebounding is average in Europe.

[Supergirl]

Sounds to me like Luis and Ian are the only two real prospects. ANd considering Luis may never make it over here (and when he does, he'll likely need at least a year to adjust to the NBA) and Ian is sooooooooooo young, they may all turn out to be busts.

I thought Javtokas was more promising than you make him sound...

[Bruno]

My point is Pau would not let him leave (or he wouldn't like leaving) knowing he would go in NBDL. Knowing Spurs would send him to the NBDL after they signed him, if you prefer put it this way.

Pau has nothing to say about Mahinmi and I think that they will be hapy to see Mahinmi leave them this summer because they will likely get some cash from Spurs and because Vaty is their long term project at C, not Mahinmi.

The question is will Mahinmi be ready to come in nba to only play in dleague ?
Few months ago, I would have said no to you : Mahinmi wanted to sign in nba only if he were nba ready and could get some playtime.
I'm not so sure of that now because he is fed up with euro refs (he do a lot of fouls but refs, especially french league refs, are too really hard with him), he hasn't a good realtionship with his coach and he doesn't play : rather not playing in nba and earning 10 times more money than not playing in europe.

Another question is : are Spurs ready to offer him a contract this summer ?

We will se what will happen this sumemr but last rumor I've heard from pau is that mahinmi will sign with Spurs this summer.

[ArgSpursFan]

Sounds to me like Luis and Ian are the only two real prospects. ANd considering Luis may never make it over here (and when he does, he'll likely need at least a year to adjust to the NBA) and Ian is sooooooooooo young, they may all turn out to be busts.

I thought Javtokas was more promising than you make him sound...

Ian and Luis aint Busts are all.The spurs FO you may say though.
They screwed last year by signing Finley,eventhough They don´t pay him all of his contract,He is keeping a spot on the roster and 3M/year in the salary Cap.That could´ve been used for a younger player to start developing since last year.

[Bruno]

I don't get how people can say that Spurs ahve wasted pick on these players.

Scola, Sanikidze, Karaulov and Javtokas or mid to late second round picks : this kind of players are 90% of the time third sting players at best. Scola is the best PF in europe and a lot of people think that he will be able to contribute in nba. Sanikidze is still young : he doesn't look like a good prospect for the moment but who knows. Javtokas was one accident away to be a very good player and can maybe become a 10th man in nba.

Mahinmi is the only one for who you can say that Spurs have wasted a pick because he is a late first round pick. People should remember that Spurs just won the championship and that when they have drafted him, they didn't need immediate help : a gamble on a player wasn't a crazy thing to do. Future will tell if it was a good gamble.

[Dave McNulla]

^jovatkas is a stiff. i wish it weren't true, but he sucks.

[picnroll]

btw has Mahinmi gotten any bigger/stronger?

[Mr. Body]

As Bruno points out, it's not right to say these guys are busts. None except Mahinmi were selected with valuable picks. There's frustration that Ian was taken instead of David Lee, but the Spurs at that point weren't going to select an American player. They felt they didn't need anyone right away.

[Solid D]

Sergei Karaulov = "Presti's Folly" - Sam convinced the Spurs to gamble a late second-round pick on him, even though Sam had never seen him play. In fact, he didn't even know what Karaulov looked like (according to Johnny Ludden).

[Kori Ellis]

btw has Mahinmi gotten any bigger/stronger?

Some people say he's grown an inch or so, but I haven't heard that he has gotten stronger.

It sometimes hard to gauge how a player is going to do by their (lack of) production overseas. Some players just aren't getting the playing time they need to work through it and start to produce. Sometimes it's a bad coach/player relationship, sometimes they are obligated to play other players for a variety of reasons, and sometimes it's all on the player.

I'd like to see Mahinmi in a different environment before I judge how he's going to work out.

[Solid D]

BTW, good synopsis and update Kori!

[Kori Ellis]

BTW, good synopsis and update Kori!

Thanks.

[ArgSpursFan]

I hope Mahinmi gets better tham what He is playing right now,but I haven´t seen a player who is not producing in Europe,doing something any better on the NBA.
I say,another season in Europe will do him, and his BBIQ better tham playing in the Dleague.

[Kori Ellis]

I hope Mahinmi gets better tham what He is playing right now,but I haven´t seen a player who is not producing in Europe,doing something any better on the NBA.
I say,another season in Europe will do him, and his BBIQ better tham playing in the Dleague.

I just think the situation with Pau might be bad for him. Before thinking he's a bust, I'd like to see him on a different European team or with the Spurs (and perhaps be sent to the DLeague on and off).

[Bruno]

I haven´t seen a player who is not producing in Europe,doing something any better on the NBA.


Petro. He isn't playing great in nba but he was as bad as Mahinmi when he played in europe.

[mountainballer]

I also can't believe that you're writing those guys off so easily. Karalauov is a bust, and at this point Javtokas is probably too old, but Ian is still 20, Sanikidze turned all of 21 yesterday, and Scola certainly isn't a bust, just buyout-bound to Tau. By all accounts, he can at least come in and score effectively in the post in the NBA, even if his rebounding is average in Europe.

noone called Scola a bust.
IMO he likely would pay big dividends, like Nocioni does in Chicago
FO blew it last year, when they decided to invest their money in Butler instead of signing Scola to the contract he demanded.

talking about young players, there is a point, when you can no longer argue, that they are just 20 or just 21.
in the case of Sanikidze you have to say, he is already 21.
it's not that you can expect a 21 years old to progress as if he just turned 17 and is still growing. hell, he get's tons of DNPs at one of the worst teams in the Spanish league. some argue, that the Spanish league is a though pro league. yes and no. some (much better) teams have players who are just 18 and get 10 times more PT than Sanikidze. fact is, that he isn't different to the player he was at 18. (I know, he was injured a lot, but that was also a bit because of his highschool player frame).
Sanikidze can be labeled a bust, till something miraculous happens and he turns into a NBA player. but for how long did we have to call him "young project - you have to be patient".
till he is 30?

Mahinmi is similar. but other than Sanikidze he has the body to play NBA bball. so there is some hopw left. on the other hand, he was a 1st rounder.
and he also didn't show much progress. you can point out, that he started late with playing organized basektball and that's why he is still raw.
sure, but Tim also started late.
you have some talent or you don't. talent isn't something that suddenly shows up after 5 years of training. right now I can't see, that there is the talent (for NBA) when talking about Ian.



I thought Javtokas was more promising than you make him sound...

he did, that's right. he might have turned out to be a decent pick for a late 2nd rounder. not a steal like some thought before the accident, but maybe a solid back-up center like Rebraca.

[Kori Ellis]

Sanikidze turned all of 21 yesterday,


in the case of Sanikidze you have to say, he is already 21.

Just for the record, his birthday is April 1 - he's not 21 yet :)

[whottt]

There's nothing unusual at all in Euroleague about young players new to teams not seeing many minutes their first years with those teams...it's like a respect thing if there is a more established or older player playing the same position.

Pau Gasol couldn't get off the bench his first year in Euroleague either. He averaged 4 ppg.


They use the Stephen Jackson plan in Europe too...

[Ocotillo]

Very nice write up Kori and thanks for doing it.

Scola, if the Spurs were to bring him in, sounds like his best fit would be backing up Duncan. His playing style might not work as well with Timmy on the floor as they want to be in the same area.

Ian and Viktor are still too young to call a bust. Sanikidze is going to have to gain some body mass via muscle and loose the mullet. I personally still have high hopes for Mahinmi and that is based on nothing more than his body and athletic ability.

Javotkas may never make it to the NBA, at least with the Spurs. The combination of the motorcycle accident and now his age are increasing the odds against him.

Karaulov will never see an NBA court unless he buys a ticket.

Again, nice post......

[JPB]

btw has Mahinmi gotten any bigger/stronger?

Yes, he has.



I haven´t seen a player who is not producing in Europe,doing something any better on the NBA

Not necesserly.

As I previously said, Ian's game may fit better in US than in Europe.

[JPB]

btw has Mahinmi gotten any bigger/stronger?



Yes, he has.

He's a bit stronger.

[whottt]

Raise your hand if you've seen Mahinimi play...

Any big man with those kind of hops and quickness is going to wind up in the NBA at some point.

Even in D-League his athleticism wasn't the problem...fouls were.

I don't see Pau making a real big attempt to develop him this year...but then again, what do they really have to gain by doing so?

Learns the system this year and then next year he becomes a factor and Pau makes a run for the Euroleague...both teams get something out of it.


Again I gotta say...there is nothing unusual about first year rookie level players getting jobbed for minutes behind inferior players in Euroleague.

[Big P]

I can't believe this team has squandered away this many draft picks on players of little to no talent. I understand the diamond in the ruff theory but at some point you'd think team needs might actually be addressed in the draft.

Go look at all the players the other 29 teams drafted & you'll get the idea that its not only the Spurs who "squandered" away draft picks. There are plenty of guys that were picked very high up. even in the lottery that aren't even in the NBA right now for, example Tskitaschvilli was picked in the 5th spot & he cant even make a summer league team & he's back in Europe, Jiri Welsch is another one. The teams that picked guys like that would love to have that pick back. Not doing your homework & throwing away a lottery pick on a guy thats not even in the NBA anymore, that is squandering.

Like exstatic said, the Spurs are always picking at the end of the first & usually the end of the second, picks that have little value in trades. The players the Spurs have picked have not come to the NBA yet, so we dont know if the picks used were wasted or not. And we know at least Scola will bring in some type of value in a trade, whether it be in picks or a player. For somebody that was picked at the end of the 2nd round, I dont think you can ask for much more.

[mountainballer]

Pau Gasol couldn't get off the bench his first year in Euroleague either. He averaged 4 ppg.


jesus. you are making quite a reach to somehow find arguments why Ian has to struggle in his first Euroleague season.

just to put things in perspective:
Pau was younger than Ian and other than Ian he played for on of the best teams in Europe, that was full with verterans.
Pau played behind Milan Gurovic, who back then was one of the best SFs in Europe (Pau didn't play center, just some minutes at PF). Barca played kind of twin tower back then (remember, they also had Elson on their team), so Renzitas, Duenas, Alston got most of the minutes in the big rotation.
averaging 4 PPG in limited minutes as a 19 years old player on that team isn't comparable to what Ian showed this season.
you ask if people have seen Ian play. if you had seen Pau play back then, you wouldn't even think of making a comparison like this.

[TDMVPDPOY]

at least we know that scola>any big name not name td on our roster

i rather have javtokas than oberto, this dude can fuckn at least jump over a fukn coke bottle....

[whottt]

jesus. you are making quite a reach to somehow find arguments why Ian has to struggle in his first Euroleague season.*snip*


On the contrary...I make no reach at all.

Pau has absolutely nothing to gain by developing Mahinimi this season. IE giving him substantial PT. And everything to gain by limiting his minutes this season....

And Pau Gasol is not the only player whose minutes were limited in the early years.


There's no great mystery about what is going on with Mahinimi here...

He's definitely got NBA athleticism.
He definitely plays hard.
And from all accounts I have read, he has a tremendous work ethic.
And I think the NBA looming in his future has done nothing to curb his desire or enthusiams.


He's jumped up a level in league and he is struggling making the adjustment against more talented players...minutes will fix this...but now, he's in sit, watch and learn mode...and Pau will be the better for it next season.


I can give you other examples of NBA Euroleaguers who got limited minutes early in their careers with Euroleague teams.

And teams in Euroleague do make more of a commitment to guys who they plan on being a bigger part of the team than guys they don't think will be around...

It's just good business...it'd be stupid to do it differently.


I've seen Mahinimi play...he made Petro look like dogshit.

He'll be in the NBA.

[mountainballer]

I've seen Mahinimi play.


so did I.
unfortunatly more than once this season, I wish he didn't have joined a Euroleague team, then I wouldn't have seen him.
I never doubted that he has NBA level athleticismn.
I doubt that he has NBA level skills.
I see us make the same discussion 2 years from now.
even then some will claim, that he is young and raw, but has the body.

and btw. he isn't 7 foot like Petro.
he is 6-9 at best.
an athletic 7 foot guy doesn't need much skills to end up in the NBA and have a mediocre career.
a 6-9 player should have, athletic or not.

I'm looking forward to the 2007 draft hoping Spurs will finally get back the Karma of the before 2003 years and pick some guys that are worth talking and speculating about.
two decent picks and hopefully a final solution for Scola (either sign him or trade his rights) and I guarrantee, that in two years people won't evenremamber that we own the Mahinmi rights.

[Bruno]

He's jumped up a level in league and he is struggling making the adjustment against more talented players...minutes will fix this...but now, he's in sit, watch and learn mode...and Pau will be the better for it next season.


Pau isn't sure at all to play the euroleague next season.
They had to win the french league to participate at next year euroleague.
If Pau isn't qualified for the euroleague, Mahinmi will have to choice between staying with them and playing only the french league, signing with a new euroleague team or signing with Spurs.




and btw. he isn't 7 foot like Petro.
he is 6-9 at best.


:rolleyes
Mahinmi is at least a legit 6'10".

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Send both Scola and Mahinmi to the D-League.

[Bruno]

Send both Scola and Mahinmi to the D-League.

Scola has nothing to do in D-League.

[AFBlue]

Heard 6'10 and three-quarters at his pre-draft workout. He should be hovering around 7' when he's fully grown.

About his on-court time for Pau. The foul-trouble that plagued him in the Summer League didn't disappear. Even if the opportunity was available for him to play more, he would still take himself out of the game with his propensity to foul. It's a problem...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Scola has nothing to do in D-League.
If the Spurs were to sign Scola, he would be the Horry replacement, but would they develop him how they did with Oberto last year or put him in the rotation already?

[AFBlue]

The only thing about bringing Mahinmi over next year is that he will certainly be a d-leaguer, but will still count against the roster, of which the Spurs only have 15 spots. Guys like Finley, Barry, Oberto, and Elson all have guaranteed contracts that run through next year. That, plus the potential of three draft picks (at least one a guaranteed contract if it's not a draft & stash). I just don't see the room for Mahinmi next season. I think he doesn't come over until 2008.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The only thing about bringing Mahinmi over next year is that he will certainly be a d-leaguer, but will still count against the roster, of which the Spurs only have 15 spots. Guys like Finley, Barry, Oberto, and Elson all have guaranteed contracts that run through next year. That, plus the potential of three draft picks (at least one a guaranteed contract if it's not a draft & stash). I just don't see the room for Mahinmi next season. I think he doesn't come over until 2008.
I thought there was a team option for Oberto after this season.

[AFBlue]

If the Spurs were to sign Scola, he would be the Horry replacement, but would they develop him how they did with Oberto last year or put him in the rotation already?

He might not go in the rotation, but I doubt they would put him in the D-League. Oberto rode the pine all of his first year, but he spent it with the team.

About his on-court time, how much he plays would depend on the Spurs' needs and his ability to adapt to the NBA game.

[AFBlue]

I thought there was a team option for Oberto after this season.

Player option...he might utilize it if he's out of the rotation, but its a guaranteed $2.5M, would you walk away?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Player option...he might utilize it if he's out of the rotation, but its a guaranteed $2.5M, would you walk away?
Convince him he's worth $3M. Anything to get him off.

[Bruno]

Oberto can opt out too to get more money if he continues to get some playtime this year.
When I see what contracts Voskhul and Othella Harrington have received last summer, I can see some teams offering a multiyear contract with more than $2M per year.

[AFBlue]

Convince him he's worth $3M. Anything to get him off.

Agreed. I can only handle two Argentinians on the Spurs at once, so if they bring Scola on, or try to go after Nocioni, I'm gonna need Oberto to skip town.

Argentinians.... :lol

Just kidding, don't be offended ye people of Argentina...

[wildbill2u]

Scola might be good:)
Sounds like only Scola may be useful within the next tw0-three years. The rest of these guys are chronic pine-riders who can't even start...er make that...get into serious minutes in the rotations for their Euro teams.

That fact alone virtually eliminates them from serious consideration.

[remingtonbo2001]

I think Ian's game, more specific his defense, would translate better to the NBA than in an International League. The structure of the game is based differently than the NBA, which is why America suffered during the Olympics. Also considering other International teams have been under this system for quite some time. That being said, Ian's foul trouble doesn't concern me. Yeah, he did have trouble in summer league. I do believe the Euroleague will benefit his abililty to withstand foul trouble, as the officiating tends to be quite sensitive.

[ArgSpursFan]

If the Spurs were to sign Scola, he would be the Horry replacement, but would they develop him how they did with Oberto last year or put him in the rotation already?

Horry is retiring in the offseason anyways.
besides Scola won´t be your tipical just out of college roockie.

[ArgSpursFan]

Agreed. I can only handle two Argentinians on the Spurs at once, so if they bring Scola on, or try to go after Nocioni, I'm gonna need Oberto to skip town.

Argentinians.... :lol

Just kidding, don't be offended ye people of Argentina...

I agree about Fabricio Leaving the spurs though,As much as I respect Oberto,I don´t think he can do any better tham what he already did so far.he´s got a spurs all times record already anyways(12/12 fg% in a game vs the suns)
But I really think the spurs need a bigger stronger and faster center tham him.

[Mr. Body]

If Oberto leaves it's probably to go back to Europe. I see him spending his dowager years anchoring some Euroleague team, perhaps off the bench for stretches.

[itzsoweezee]

if scola is not playing the NBA next season, i'm going to be pissed. even more pissed than i was this past off season from the ineptness demonstrated by the spurs front office.

[ArgSpursFan]

He can even be a decent backup Center for a shity NBA team,but the spurs need someone else in order to fight for the NBA title.

[Mr. Body]

Send both Scola and Mahinmi to the D-League.

That'd be hilarious. Scola would score about 55 ppg and kill random passers-by every game out of rage.

[Axl Van Dam]

In fact, I'm really wondering if it wouldn't be better for him to come next year. He might not be ready but I think it would be better for him to developp in the US than in europe which may not be made for his game and his physical characteristics.

Problem is, spurs couldn't afford to use a spot for a player who wouldn't really contribute and he wouldn't go in the NBDL.

:toast Couldn't agree with you more on your first paragraph. :toast

[2centsworth]

They all sound like bust except for maybe Scola. RC needs to give some of his salary back.

[T Park]

They all sound like bust except for maybe Scola

yeah them 20 year olds, give up on em.

:lol

fucking idiots.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Didn't they bother to examine Mahinmi's basketball IQ when salivating over his potential? He's a nice guy and all, but doesn't seem to understand the game all that well, the amount he fouls.

Tall talk from someone who wanted us to spend the whole MLE on Roberto Javtokas. And I bet you haven't even seen Ian play, either :rolleyes

[T Park]

Ian showed enough IMO, to bring him over this year and play him as a 12th man.

[Mr. Body]

Tall talk from someone who wanted us to spend the whole MLE on Roberto Javtokas. And I bet you haven't even seen Ian play, either :rolleyes

:lol

I got it now. Aggie Hoopsfan wants to give Ian Mahinmi the entire MLE. Spurs made a mistake drafting him late first round. :lol

That, and trading for Corey Maggette so he can start at point guard. :lol

Keep 'em coming! :lol

:king

[SequSpur]

What a shitty outlook. All of these players blow chunks.

[Capt Bringdown]

Who could we have gotten instead of these non-performers?
At the very least, these draft picks have some trade value, right?
Seems like a lotta picks and a whole lotta nothin' to show for it.

[Darkwaters]

How do most of you guys see players like Mahinmi play? Can you view the games online or something?

[THE SIXTH MAN]

How do most of you guys see players like Mahinmi play? Can you view the games online or something?
Some of the posters here aren't from the U.S.

[Kori Ellis]

How do most of you guys see players like Mahinmi play? Can you view the games online or something?

Several Euroleague games are on TV throughout the season (though they are delayed about a week). Also some of them are broadcast online.

[SenorSpur]

As Bruno points out, it's not right to say these guys are busts. None except Mahinmi were selected with valuable picks. There's frustration that Ian was taken instead of David Lee, but the Spurs at that point weren't going to select an American player. They felt they didn't need anyone right away.

Over the past five years or so, we see how that decision has turned out. Personally, I think the Spurs have "overvalued" the international market much to the detriment of the American talent pool.

I'm not even talking about drafting high-schoolers. It still irks the hell out of me that they could pass on solid college players like Josh Howard, David Lee, and Paul Milsap in favor of some international "spare-come-lately".

Other teams have had no problem finding American talent in the later rounds. The Spurs are seemingly "too cheap" to take the risk.

Since Parker and Ginobili, they've got basically nothing tangible to show for their international draft efforts.

They simply need to balance out their draft selections by mining both the American and international player fronts. They should stop dedicating the majority their time, effort and scouting in the foreign market. Mix it up a bit.

[Kori Ellis]

They simply need to balance out their draft selections by mining both the American and international player fronts. They should stop dedicating the majority their time, effort and scouting in the foreign market. Mix it up a bit.

I think they realize that and that's why they have a director of collegiate scouting (I don't know if that's his exact title) now.

[SenorSpur]

I think they realize that and that's why they have a director of collegiate scouting (I don't know if that's his exact title) now.

Does that mean they've not had one before now?

BTW, trying to glean three players (Ginobili, Scola and Oberto) from the same international Olympic team? Lightening may strike once, but three times? That's definitely going to the well thrice too often.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

yeah, I think they were a little shortsighted with the international / veteran gleam. But can you blame them after Gino and Tony? Luckily they've learned and are tapping the domestic prospects again.

[Kori Ellis]

Does that mean they've not had one before now?



I do not believe that have had someone that has concentrated ONLY on college scouting before (but I'm not positive).

[GrandeDavid]

I'm really disappointed in what I read about Mahinmi and Javtokas. VERY disappointed. Yes, Mahinmi is young, but damn!

Looks like Scola is the guy to try to bring over, again, next summer.

[Dartherus]

I thought somebody said he was only a good inside scorer but not a good rebounder.At 6.9 he is getting more boards tham the two spurs Centers right now(4.9 and 5.2)
I´ve got the feeling that next year will be Scola´s year to finally come down to S.A,+He´s got a big chance to be the Euroleague MVP and Win the Euroleague with Tau,So after that he won´t have nothing else to proof in Europe.
NBA TIME FOR LUIS BABY!!
You have to take into account that in Europe is not as common to grab man y boards, top-notch centers rarely get more than 6 or 7 at best rpg in strong teams.

The game in Europe is very collective, and zone defenses helps that a lot. With zones, no matter how good you are, the D can close you and the team must share the numbers with the rest of the teammates, and when the perimeter is not working, even the most dominant inside players can bring titles to a team. Even such a dominant player like Tim Duncan lived that in FIBA competitions.

Apart from that Scola is playing reduced minutes due that he's recovering from a plantar fascitis (las game he played only 19 mins) and that his team is so strong, that the teams can have him less minutes and still beat their oponents.

Knowing that, Scola's numbers are impressive, he goes above 20 of avg Efficiency for every season he competes, he uses to be above 6 rpg or even 7 rpg (rebounds number more for a center than a PF in Europe), an the less zone deffense would in NBA would not hurt him at all, IMO. At least regarding that, he'll be better in NBA than in Euroleague.

[ArgSpursFan]

You have to take into account that in Europe is not as common to grab man y boards, top-notch centers rarely get more than 6 or 7 at best rpg in strong teams.
The game in Europe is very collective, and zone defenses helps that a lot. With zones, no matter how good you are, the D can close you and the team must share the numbers with the rest of the teammates, and when the perimeter is not working, even the most dominant inside players can bring titles to a team. Even such a dominant player like Tim Duncan lived that in FIBA competitions.

Apart from that Scola is playing reduced minutes due that he's recovering from a plantar fascitis (las game he played only 19 mins) and that his team is so strong, that the teams can have him less minutes and still beat their oponents.

Knowing that, Scola's numbers are impressive, he goes above 20 of avg Efficiency for every season he competes, he uses to be above 6 rpg or even 7 rpg (rebounds number more for a center than a PF in Europe), an the less zone deffense would in NBA would not hurt him at all, IMO. At least regarding that, he'll be better in NBA than in Euroleague.

That´s exacly what I was trying to explain guys like ChumpDumper or TIMVP,about the FIBA rules(wich I played under in Argentina)and nobody seems to take that in consideration.I did predict that Scola can be a better scorer/rebounder in NBA tham what he already is in Europe right now,because of the one-on-one NBA D.and Diferents rules that change from FIBA to NBA.
That´s why most former FIBA players are more team oriented players.

[ArgSpursFan]

Very nice write up Kori and thanks for doing it.

Scola, if the Spurs were to bring him in, sounds like his best fit would be backing up Duncan. His playing style might not work as well with Timmy on the floor as they want to be in the same area.

Ian and Viktor are still too young to call a bust. Sanikidze is going to have to gain some body mass via muscle and loose the mullet. I personally still have high hopes for Mahinmi and that is based on nothing more than his body and athletic ability.

Javotkas may never make it to the NBA, at least with the Spurs. The combination of the motorcycle accident and now his age are increasing the odds against him.

Karaulov will never see an NBA court unless he buys a ticket.

Again, nice post......

That´s a good point,since every time Tim goes to the bench the spurs suck lately,we can´t even hold on to a 15 pts. lead when Timmy is on the bench.So if He can play 15 mins in his roockie year,being Tim´s backup,it´ll help the team on the paint when Duncan is getting some rest.

[ducks]

IF scola would come off the bench with manu that might be a good combo
but scola is going to be limited to 15 minutes most nights so spurs better not pay him 40 minute night salary

[WalterBenitez]

The future will shine for SAS, as long as they keep the ability to find good players around the globe; I'd love to see Scola in SAS' uniform

[ArgSpursFan]

IF scola would come off the bench with manu that might be a good combo
but scola is going to be limited to 15 minutes most nights so spurs better not pay him 40 minute night salary

what would you reather have in your team,a guy like Ely who gets 3.3 M p/year and doesn´t play,or a guy who can play 15 mins p/game in his roockie year and can put up 10 pts 5 board p/game for the same money?

[Bruno]

All the FIBA thing is quite BS : Scola won't turn into a great rebounder because he plays in NBA. He won't too turn into a liabilty.
Players average about the same number of rebounds/min in europe and in nba : players who have played in both systems haven't seen their numbers really raise or decrease. if there is a difference, it's not a significant one.

To me, I split bigmen into 3 categories :
- 1 rebound per 5 min : bad rebounders. (players like Rasho)
- 1 rebound per 4 min : average rebounders. (players like Oberto, Elson)
- 1 rebound per 3 min : good rebounders. (players like Duncan)

Scola is a 1 rebound per 4 min player in europe, I see no reason for him not to be this kind of players in nba.

[mountainballer]

:rolleyes
Mahinmi is at least a legit 6'10".

sorry that I'm a bit of a smart-ass, but from where do you get this "at least 6-10" myth?
maybe he seems taller, because Pau is a very small team, only their young center Ajinca is taller than 6-9 and he doesn't play anyhow.
most sites list Ian at 6-9. (I know that NBA teams add sometimes 2 inches to the players mesurments)
just check by yourself.
Vathy (plyer no.16) is listed 2.05 (6-9)
Rupert (no.12) is listed 6-7
Harrison (no.5) is listed 6-4

http://www.elan-bearnais.fr/equipe/20062007/DSC00709teamreprise.JPG

[ArgSpursFan]

Even if he averages the same boards tham this year(6.9) in the NBA next year ,He will be better tham Elson or Oberto(5.2/4.9)who are Centers in the NBA.+He´ll be more of scorer tham what Elson or Oberto are,and he is a PF not a Center.

[Bruno]

sorry that I'm a bit of a smart-ass, but from where do you get this "at least 6-10" myth?


It's not like Ludden has said in his articles that Mahinmi was 6'10" (he even said that he was 6'11" in one of them).
It's not like Mahinmi has said that he was 6'10" more than one year ago.

Mahinmi was maybe 6'9" few years ago but he has grown since that and sites don't update heights/weights (just look at some weights on nba/com, it's quite funny) .
Your picture prove nothing. It's impossible to say if a player is 6'9", 6'10" or 6'11" on a picture.
Just look at this picture : http://www.elan-bearnais.fr/equipe/20062007/DSC00714gilchristjohnsen.jpg
Mahinmi seems bigger than Johnsen (the guy in the middle). Johnsen pre-draft camp mesurement are 6'10" without shoes and 6'10.75" with shoes.

[Bruno]

Even if he averages the same boards tham this year(6.9) in the NBA next year ,He will be better tham Elson or Oberto(5.2/4.9)

You can't use rebounding numbers without lookint at the playtime.
Scola should be the same kind of rebounders in nba than Oberto/Elson.

[ArgSpursFan]

You can't use rebounding numbers without lookint at the playtime.
Scola should be the same kind of rebounders in nba than Oberto/Elson.

But you can´t have the NEXT DUNCAN for 3M p/year.
If thats the case lets bring D.Howard,but that´s gonna cost really Big bucks.
I never said He is gonna be a great rebounder,but He can be a 6 to 7 boards p/game PF,with some decent scoring average.

[mountainballer]

Your picture prove nothing. It's impossible to say if a player is 6'9", 6'10" or 6'11" on a picture.
Just look at this picture : http://www.elan-bearnais.fr/equipe/20062007/DSC00714gilchristjohnsen.jpg
Mahinmi seems bigger than Johnsen (the guy in the middle). Johnsen pre-draft camp mesurement are 6'10" without shoes and 6'10.75" with shoes.

a typical frontal team picture, where all players stand still in the same position, is usually a good way to compare the size of the players.
in your picture Ian is in front of Johnson.
and btw. you did realize that -other than Ian -Johnson is in street cloths. so he likely is wearing flat shoes and Ian wears basketball sneakers. the typical sneakers sole is 1 inch thicker than the sole of a flat street shoe. ;)

[Bruno]

a typical frontal team picture, where all players stand still in the same position, is usually a good way to compare the size of the players.
in your picture Ian is in front of Johnson.
and btw. you did realize that -other than Ian -Johnson is in street cloths. so he likely is wearing flat shoes and Ian wears basketball sneakers. the typical sneakers sole is 1 inch thicker than the sole of a flat street shoe. ;)


:lmao
Open your eyes and stop bringing stupid arguments just to be right.
In your picture some players are closer than others too.

Bottomline is that you want to bash Spurs FO for all their recent moves and that doesn't hurt you to be dishonest or to say nonsense just to prove your point. Pathetic.

Continue your stupid bashing as much as you want, I'm done talking with you.

Have a nice day.
Bruno.

[Bruno]

But you can´t have the NEXT DUNCAN for 3M p/year.
If thats the case lets bring D.Howard,but that´s gonna cost really Big bucks.
I never said He is goona be a great rebounder,but He can be a 6 to 7 boards p/game PF,with some decent scoring average.

:wtf
RIF.

Have I said that Spurs shouldn't sign Scola ? No
Have I said that Scola will be a burst in nba ? No

I've just said that players don't really average more rebounds/min in nba than in europe.
I think that Scola will average the same rebounding numbers per minute in nba than what he does in europe and he will be with these numbers an average rebounder in nba.

[mountainballer]

Bottomline is that you want to bash Spurs FO for all their recent moves and that doesn't hurt you to be dishonest or to say nonsense just to prove your point. Pathetic.

Continue your stupid bashing as much as you want, I'm done talking with you.

Have a nice day.
Bruno.

jesus christ, what problems do you have??????????????????????????????
you lose your mind, because someone else dares to contradict your points.

you were the one who claimed this Ian is 6-10 at least, but that isn't true.
pure and simple.
not that is would matter, but as much as you usually know, about Ian you are wrong IMO (yes, just in my oppinion), unfortunatly not only about his size.

yes, I bash the FOs decission to pick him. since I have seen him play serveral times. it is OK that many Spurs fans still hope that he will turn out to be a NBA player one day and it is ok that you are one of them, but allow me that I do have an absolutly different oppinion about him.
and allow me, that I contradict all those incredible arguments, that claim why he can't do any better etc.
from what I have seen, I don't think that he will ever be a NBA player. belive me, I would prefer to see a future NBA player when watching Ian, but I don't.
that's all.
(btw. you can call me a smart-ass or whatever for insisting on my point, because unfortunatly it's right.
but I would appreciate if you stop calling me dishonest, because I just quote facts that are not my fiction, but are easy to check. same with the words pathetic and nonsense. you will find out, that I don't use them for excoriate
other posters who don't share my oppinion. that goes for you either, who's oppinion I do respect, but in the case of Ian don't share)

[mathbzh]

I don't know if Ian will ever be a NBA player. I must admit he didn't improved the way I hopped. But he is still very young so... wait and see.
About his size, I don't think it really matters but on Pau site he is listed at 2.08. This is exactly 6'10.

[objective]

I think they realize that and that's why they have a director of collegiate scouting (I don't know if that's his exact title) now.

His title is Director of College Player Personnel.

As far as my limited research shows, it is a new title and new position. Beforehand, college scouting seemed to have been done by everyone else, except Demps I guys who is the NBA scout. So I guess that leaves RC, some other guy, Presti, and Presti's college buddies.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't know if Ian will evere be a NBA player. I must admit he didn't improved the way I hopped. But he is still very young so... wait and see.
About his size, I don't think it really matters but on Pau site he is listed at 2.08. This is exactly 6'10.

It doesn't really matter but I understood that Ian was 206cm when they drafted him and 208cm now. I don't know if it's shoes, no shoes, whatever but it doesn't really matter. He's a solid height for an NBA bigman.

Now if he can stop fouling, that's another story. :)

[whottt]

378 minutes played.

81 personal fouls.

37 blocks.


Those aren't Ian Mahinimi's numbers...

They are David Robinson's...a guy who arguably turned into the greatest shotblocker ever and one of the elite defensive players of all time.

I guess it sometimes takes growing bigmen a while to get used to their body. Doesn't help if they are new to the game.

IF the worst problem Mahinmi has is picking up fouls he'll be ok.

He's 6'10, he plays hard(too hard and that's probably why he gets so many fouls), he's extremely quick and athletic for a man his size, and he can jump out of the gym...won't take much for him to make it to the NBA.

[mountainballer]

Ian and Viktor are still too young to call a bust. Sanikidze is going to have to gain some body mass via muscle and loose the mullet.


after some weeks of DNPs Sanikidze saw some court time yesterday:
5:09 min 0 0/0 0% 0/0 0% 0/0 0% 0 0+0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 -1
(the 1 is a foul)
it's not only the mullet.

[objective]

looking at his pic, maybe the pressure of being taken before Ariza finally made Sanikidze snap, and now he thinks he's a pirate.

[Darkwaters]

The issue is not really how tall Ian is. If hes 6'10 or 6'9 it doesn't matter. What really matters is how long his arms are and how high the guy can jump.

Thats why a guy like Saer Sene, a center who measures 6'11, was so intriguing to Seattle. The guy has a 7'8 wingspan.

[yavozerb]

The spurs currently have 7 players who play the 4 or 5.
-Ely and Bonner have expiring contracts (bonner will be re-signed)
-Horry has mentioned about possibly retiring after this season
-Oberto has player option and will likely be with team for 2007-2008
-Elson has one more year on contract and will be back
-Butler has 2 more year and will hopefully be traded in the off-season.
-TD will retire in a spurs uniform in about 5-6 years.
The spurs will only be losing 2 bigmen (for sure ely and probably either horry or butler) which only opens a roster spot for probably 1 more pf/c on the active roster. I do not think they will bring scola until 2008-2009 season.

[ChumpDumper]

Why are we losing Ely "for sure"?

[yavozerb]

The only way ely is signed is is horry retires, or butler is moved, or scola stays over seas. I think bonner will be a priority to sign probably in the 3-3.5 mil. range. I also do not believe the spurs would offer more than 2.5 mil. to ely for no longer than probably a 1 year contract..I think ely will be offered a contract in the 3-4 mil. range in the offseason..So if it makes you feel better I will take back the "for sure" and change it to "probably" not signing with the spurs

[ChumpDumper]

he only way ely is signed is is horry retires, or butler is moved, or scola stays over seas.I think Scola stays overseas.
I think ely will be offered a contract in the 3-4 mil. range in the offseason.I don't think he has done anything to merit that.

[yavozerb]

I think Scola stays overseas.I don't think he has done anything to merit that.
I agree with you on ely not really proving much in the NBA, but how often do you see teams throwing money on a player who they hope can fill a need. A team like the knicks or someone who has unlimited $$ will always overpay for average players..

[ArgSpursFan]

I really don´t think S.A offered Scola´s rights to anybody this year before the trade deadline,and will give it a last shot this summer.If they can come up with a deal with Tau,as far as Scola´s buyout,they´ll sign him this summer,If not,well I think they´ll just give up on him.

[SenorSpur]

I wish the Spurs would deal Scola's rights. There's no sense adding yet another Argentine player who will need at least a year of adjustment.

I'd rather they invest time, effort and $$$ in seeing evaluating whether Ely can be the force @ PF.

[ArgSpursFan]

any player,eather from Argentina,Europe or the NBA would need a year to adjust to the spurs system.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm so sick of Spurs fans dropping back and second guessing this front office's picks. You can stop bitching about players like Josh Howard and the like, because you aren't going to make a great player out of every draft pick you have. In fact, if you make a good player out of half of your picks, you're doing a damn good job and considering the Spurs have gotten 2 of their big three with less than stellar picks they're doing quite well. Manu is probably the 2nd best 2nd round pick OF ALL TIME and Tony was damn near a 2nd round pick himself.

They haven't made bad picks in the 1st round with the exception of Beno. And you can argue that Beno has all the talent in the world to be a 1st round pick, but it was his intangibles that stop him from working out. They didn't pass on Howard for a Euro, they passed on him for Jason Kidd so it would be really nice if people would stop revising history and stick to what actually happened.

The one problem I have - and it feels like this has to be stated over and over and over and over again on this board - is that the Spurs have traded away their 1st round picks that could have been effective in order to save money. But lets be honest - had they drafted Josh Howard - he wasn't guaranteed to succeed here and where was the money going to come from to pay everyone? The Spurs are already at the Luxury Tax with Tony and Manu and if Howard had blown up here who would they keep?

If you had to pick 3 out of the 4 of Duncan, Manu, Tony, and Howard, I know who I exclude and he's the guy that is in Dallas right now. I sure as hell would rather have Manu and Duncan. And while he may be a toss up with Parker - I think Tony impacts the game far more than Howard does.

People can bitch about all they want out of context, but when you compare this front office to the rest of the league, you find that they may not have drafted perfectly but overall the team management of the Spurs is very efficient and good at what they do.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Viktor Sanikidze looks like a bad motherf'er.

[Mr. Body]

Nice hissy fit, Manny, but you do make some good points. Still, I'd rather have Josh Howard than nothing. His contract blimps out next year, but lately he's making far less than Fabricio Oberto. Would you rather have Oberto than him? I guess you would. If they couldn't keep him for a large contract extension, they could trade him for a nice assortment of draft picks, with the bonus of having had him last year, we'd be working on a repeat. What a novel idea -- a tradeable commodity, and young talent.

I'm still not clear on why Josh Howard's extremely small starting salary as a rookie would have killed a Jason Kidd deal. If he would come at $xxx, a massive figure, he'd come at $xxx-$less than 1 million. No, the Spurs just didn't think they needed him, which was historically stupid.

[SenorSpur]

I'm so sick of Spurs fans dropping back and second guessing this front office's picks. You can stop bitching about players like Josh Howard and the like, because you aren't going to make a great player out of every draft pick you have. In fact, if you make a good player out of half of your picks, you're doing a damn good job and considering the Spurs have gotten 2 of their big three with less than stellar picks they're doing quite well. Manu is probably the 2nd best 2nd round pick OF ALL TIME and Tony was damn near a 2nd round pick himself.

They haven't made bad picks in the 1st round with the exception of Beno. And you can argue that Beno has all the talent in the world to be a 1st round pick, but it was his intangibles that stop him from working out. They didn't pass on Howard for a Euro, they passed on him for Jason Kidd so it would be really nice if people would stop revising history and stick to what actually happened.

The one problem I have - and it feels like this has to be stated over and over and over and over again on this board - is that the Spurs have traded away their 1st round picks that could have been effective in order to save money. But lets be honest - had they drafted Josh Howard - he wasn't guaranteed to succeed here and where was the money going to come from to pay everyone? The Spurs are already at the Luxury Tax with Tony and Manu and if Howard had blown up here who would they keep?

If you had to pick 3 out of the 4 of Duncan, Manu, Tony, and Howard, I know who I exclude and he's the guy that is in Dallas right now. I sure as hell would rather have Manu and Duncan. And while he may be a toss up with Parker - I think Tony impacts the game far more than Howard does.

People can bitch about all they want out of context, but when you compare this front office to the rest of the league, you find that they may not have drafted perfectly but overall the team management of the Spurs is very efficient and good at what they do.

No FO is above being second-guessed. That's the fun thing about sports and that's what we as fans do. Having said that, no one in their right mind would ever criticize the FO for finding and developing Parker and Ginobili. But that was 5-6 years ago. The fact is no FO type, or player for that matter, can continuously live off what they did in the past.

You can defend the FO all you want. The fact remains that them passing Josh Howard IS the biggest blunder of this current FO administration and it will haunt them for the next 10 years. If you think Josh Howard wouldn't have developed into a fine pro, whether here or there, then you don't know basketball or his personality.

Since you brought up the courting of Jason Kidd, let's look at that one. What shape would this franchise have been in had Kidd, along with his enormous contract, come aboard? And which one of the big three would the Spurs have had to part with to make that happen in a possible S&T scenario? Since there's no way the Nets would have allowed him to walk away w/o compensation.

What about the FO's fliration with Chris Webber that same summer, all the while dangling D-Rob as potential S&T bait for the Kings? It's true that sometimes the best deals are the ones that are never made.

Every FO is going to have its share of hits and misses in the draft, but passing on known commodities is absurd. As a two-time ACC player of the year, Howard would qualify as such. It's funny how some players who elect to stay in school longer tend to slide to the later rounds of the draft (i.e. Paul Milsap, Jameer Nelson, David Lee, Carlos Boozer, Howard). Don't tell me you can't always find good players in the later stages of the round.

Sure the Spurs have had their successes and have been praised for it. However, they've made their blunders as well. That doesn't make me or anyone else less of a fan for criticizing them for it.

As I've said before, I simply want the FO to balance out their scouting and drafting. They should stop being so dependent solely on the international market alone when there are good, productive players that are being overlooked in the domestic market - I'm not talking HS players either.

Mining the international front is a good strategy, just balance it out just a bit. In case you've forgotten, this is the talent acquisition business. It's all about what have you done for me lately.

[boutons_]

"signing Scola to the contract he demanded."

his buyout was the killer, not the FO mistake.

[yavozerb]

It is very easy to second guess the past on any matter. The fact is that the spurs FO is probably in the top 5 of the NBA and have been for quite a while. It is very difficult to stay an elite team for 7+ years in any professional level due to late draft picks year in and year out and FA (just ask the lakers, knicks, or Jazz). Yes, they may have missed a couple of draft picks (howard), but no more than than 99% of teams who draft in the top 20 every year!!

[mountainballer]

No FO is above being second-guessed. That's the fun thing about sports and that's what we as fans do. Having said that, no one in their right mind would ever criticize the FO for finding and developing Parker and Ginobili. But that was 5-6 years ago. The fact is no FO type, or player for that matter, can continuously live off what they did in the past.

You can defend the FO all you want. The fact remains that them passing Josh Howard IS the biggest blunder of this current FO administration and it will haunt them for the next 10 years. If you think Josh Howard wouldn't have developed into a fine pro, whether here or there, then you don't know basketball or his personality.

Since you brought up the courting of Jason Kidd, let's look at that one. What shape would this franchise have been in had Kidd, along with his enormous contract, come aboard? And which one of the big three would the Spurs have had to part with to make that happen in a possible S&T scenario? Since there's no way the Nets would have allowed him to walk away w/o compensation.

What about the FO's fliration with Chris Webber that same summer, all the while dangling D-Rob as potential S&T bait for the Kings? It's true that sometimes the best deals are the ones that are never made.

Every FO is going to have its share of hits and misses in the draft, but passing on known commodities is absurd. As a two-time ACC player of the year, Howard would qualify as such. It's funny how some players who elect to stay in school longer tend to slide to the later rounds of the draft (i.e. Paul Milsap, Jameer Nelson, David Lee, Carlos Boozer, Howard). Don't tell me you can't always find good players in the later stages of the round.

Sure the Spurs have had their successes and have been praised for it. However, they've made their blunders as well. That doesn't make me or anyone else less of a fan for criticizing them for it.

As I've said before, I simply want the FO to balance out their scouting and drafting. They should stop being so dependent solely on the international market alone when there are good, productive players that are being overlooked in the domestic market - I'm not talking HS players either.

Mining the international front is a good strategy, just balance it out just a bit. In case you've forgotten, this is the talent acquisition business. It's all about what have you done for me lately.


great post SenorSpur.

noone has denied that the FO did a great job from 1997 to 2002. the genious work of that days is still the fundation of a very good team.
the critics question the strategies and decissions from 2002 till now. compared to all other teams it was average at best, compared to the golden days, it is quite a deep drop.
don't know what has happened. only bad Karma?
(well, one reason was for sure, that the other teams intensified their international scouting, so the Parkers and Ginobilis will no longer fall to the area where Spurs usually pick and that Spurs FO didn't react in time and now find out that the Sanikidzes and Karaulovs are in fact the left overs).

you can count me in as a fan who loves the international path of the Spurs. but as someone who follows the Euro basketball closer than NBA (just because it is easier for me to watch the games) I dare to claim that it just can't work only by aquiring Euro players.
if you can get a potential Manu (like Rudy Fernandez) with the 1st rounder: great!
try a late 2nd rounder on a less known player (like Maciulis): also ok.

but waste quite usefull picks by passing on Howard and picking Beno over Duhon, Sankidze over Ariza, Mahinmi over Lee is the sequel of a default.

some fans just want a change in the philosophy.

[Mr. Body]

some fans just want a change in the philosophy.

:clap

[Bruno]

The nba draft is a gamble wether you draft a solid college senior or a HS players or a foreigners.
Drafting with a late first or a second round pick a solid senior isn't a smarter move than drafting a foreigner. For every good senior college drafted, you can find busts too.
Saying that Spurs would have been better by drafting college seniors over foreigners is too simple and untrue.
The only thing you can say about college seniors is that they are smaller gamble than young players : on the one hand they can help a team faster and have more chances to be decent players than younger players, on the other hand their upside is lower and they have less chances to be great players.

[objective]

what you can say is that the Spurs domestic scouting has been weak over the past few seasons AND there is even proof of that.

The Spurs themselves went outside the family to hire and create a new position of Director of College Player Personnel.

It's obvious they thought there's a need to improve there and that hiring of an experienced outside scout and former coach proves it. Otherwise if the Spurs were thrilled with what they were doing and getting done they wouldn't have spent that money, they just would have just kept Presti and whichever other guys he knew at college and had them keep on keepin on.

[Darkwaters]

How large of a contract will it take to bring Scola over next season? I'm not sure how large his buyout is now...but with the team only able to contribute 500k it might get messy.

What will Scola demand?

[Mr. Body]

We keep rehashing the entire argument, but what the hell. The Spurs' strategy has been to overlook domestic players in favor of international players. Whether they thought the furriners were smarter ball players, were overall cheaper, or could be kept overseas to develop, that was the deal. There were American players they said (after the fact, each draft) they were interested in, by all appearances they have had a barely functioning college scouting program and their division of interest was something like 90%/10% in favor of Europe. Pop has been on record as saying he does not watch college games. That's insane.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm so sick of Spurs fans dropping back and second guessing this front office's picks. You can stop bitching about players like Josh Howard and the like, because you aren't going to make a great player out of every draft pick you have. In fact, if you make a good player out of half of your picks, you're doing a damn good job and considering the Spurs have gotten 2 of their big three with less than stellar picks they're doing quite well. Manu is probably the 2nd best 2nd round pick OF ALL TIME and Tony was damn near a 2nd round pick himself.

They haven't made bad picks in the 1st round with the exception of Beno. And you can argue that Beno has all the talent in the world to be a 1st round pick, but it was his intangibles that stop him from working out. They didn't pass on Howard for a Euro, they passed on him for Jason Kidd so it would be really nice if people would stop revising history and stick to what actually happened.

The one problem I have - and it feels like this has to be stated over and over and over and over again on this board - is that the Spurs have traded away their 1st round picks that could have been effective in order to save money. But lets be honest - had they drafted Josh Howard - he wasn't guaranteed to succeed here and where was the money going to come from to pay everyone? The Spurs are already at the Luxury Tax with Tony and Manu and if Howard had blown up here who would they keep?

If you had to pick 3 out of the 4 of Duncan, Manu, Tony, and Howard, I know who I exclude and he's the guy that is in Dallas right now. I sure as hell would rather have Manu and Duncan. And while he may be a toss up with Parker - I think Tony impacts the game far more than Howard does.

People can bitch about all they want out of context, but when you compare this front office to the rest of the league, you find that they may not have drafted perfectly but overall the team management of the Spurs is very efficient and good at what they do.
Amen.

[Bruno]

How large of a contract will it take to bring Scola over next season? I'm not sure how large his buyout is now...but with the team only able to contribute 500k it might get messy.

What will Scola demand?

Last year Ludden has said that Scola wanted $9-10M over 3 years with a $3.5M buyout : it makes $6-7M over 3 years for him.

[objective]

How large of a contract will it take to bring Scola over next season? I'm not sure how large his buyout is now...but with the team only able to contribute 500k it might get messy.

What will Scola demand?

according to the express news, he demanded last summer a 3 year contract worth 9-10 million. The buyout is Scola's responsibility, so if that's what he was asking for than he must have had the buyout under reasonable control.

[mathbzh]

Do the spurs waste picks?

Here is a brieve history of the #28 picks for the last 17 years

Maurice Ager DNP
Mahinmi DNP
Beno 5.4/1.1/1.8 13.2 min
Barbosa 11/2.2/2.8 24.4
Dan Dickau 6.1/1.4/2.6 15.8
TP 15.5/3.1/5.4 33.1
Leon Smith 2.2/2.2/0.2 6.9
Corey Benjamin 5.5/1.7/0.9 14.3
Keith Booth 2.9/2.2/0.9 10.0
Travis Knight 3.4/3.1/0.6 12.3
Greg Ostertag 4.6/5.5/0.6 19.5
Deon Thomas DNP
Lucious Harris 7.2/2.3/1.4 19.6
Marlon Maxey 4.9/3.7/0.2 11.7
Kevin Lynch 3.3/1.3/1.1 12.0
Les Jepsen 1.0/1.3/0 3.7
Sherman Douglas 11.0/2.2/5.9 27.6

Only 3 player with good career stats TP/Barbosa/Douglas : 1 spurs - 2 international players
If I exclude the DNP players, the average #28 pick numbers are:

6PPG/2.3RPG/1.7APG in 16minutes

IMO we should stop crying about Mahinmi because he isn't DRob.
If you wan't you can do the same for later picks.

[yavozerb]

Good find math..

[Mr. Body]

Ostertag and Harris were good picks there, too.

[Darkwaters]

Last year Ludden has said that Scola wanted $9-10M over 3 years with a $3.5M buyout : it makes $6-7M over 3 years for him.

Frankly, Scola is probably an absolute bargain then. While he might take a year to adjust his potential to be effective is considerably greater than a guy like Ely. Horry needs to retire and Butler and/or Oberto need to be traded. If Butler shows promise then trade Oberto, if Butler tanks in summer league, trade him. The team would then have room to sign Scola and maybe that "starting caliber center". Of course, if Ely shows promise then trade Oberto AND Butler and let Horry retire. Resign Bonner.

Duncan/Scola/Bonner
Starting C/Elson/Ely OR Butler OR Oberto

As far as the draft, I think the Spurs try and move up in the draft by trading either Butler, Oberto, or Beno and get Rudy Fernandez. Then with Milwaukee's pick take an American PG (Mustafa Shakur, maybe?). Resign Jacque Vaughn at the minimum and play the better player as your backup. WIth the latter two picks I think a Euro makes sense. Jonas Maciulus makes sense late in the draft.

[ChumpDumper]

Ostertag and Harris were good picks there, too.Five out of seventeen.

[Mr. Body]

Most of those were real stretches. Leon Smith? Only Dallas was going to take a first round flier on him.

The point is rather not to go over niggling details, it is to point out how the Spurs' policy of overlooking domestic talent hurt them in the long run. Projecting ahead: will they throw away their first round pick again this year? The list should not be proof that they should, certainly not in this draft.

[mathbzh]

I don't mean they should throw away their pick. Just that with late pick you can't find a Arenas or Parker every year.

[ChumpDumper]

Most of those were real stretches.Exactly.

[Mr. Body]

Exactly.

Fail to see your point. Who's advocating the Spurs throw away the pick? Nobody.

[ChumpDumper]

Fail to see your point.Exactly.

[Mr. Body]

Jesus Christ, man, what the fuck are you arguing? This is fucking pointless.

[ChumpDumper]

Point is folks expect way too much from low first rounders.

Always have.

This draft will be no different.

[temujin]

The way Scola is playing right now, he would be another Manu.
He would only have to adjust to travel and food.

20 solid minutes, with double digits in points.
And Duncan could sit for 20 minutes, prolonging his career untill he's 40.

Spurs were unlucky with Javtokas.

The critics should look at the Knicks.

[ArgSpursFan]

draft picks are just draft picks,its a lottery,like real life,You never know how a player is gonna react when he goes from college student to new rich person in town.That´s why I would reather go for a +24 yrs old more mature 2nd.rounder tham a younger one(talking just about second rounders.).

[pad300]

As far as the draft, I think the Spurs try and move up in the draft by trading either Butler, Oberto, or Beno and get Rudy Fernandez. Then with Milwaukee's pick take an American PG (Mustafa Shakur, maybe?). Resign Jacque Vaughn at the minimum and play the better player as your backup. WIth the latter two picks I think a Euro makes sense. Jonas Maciulus makes sense late in the draft.

Nick Fazekas is projected to be available around our 1st round pick. If he is available, we should take him... Mobile, rebounds, shooter...
Currently 2nd in PER in college (1st playing significant minutes), 3ed in Efficiency, 10th in pts/40 (2nd if adjusted for team pace), 15.4 rbds/40 min (4th overall), 58.8 FG%, 47.2 3FG% (college 3). He's good, don't know why people think he will fall so far.

[Mr. Body]

You'd think solid scouting and talented scouts would cut down on the risk factor massively for draft picks. Not a perfect science, but it's far from an utter crap shoot.

[sabar]

Wow people expect way too much from late picks. Other than Josh Howard, the FO has done rather well with what they have. It doesn't matter if we draft domestic -- most of the time late pick scrubs take up roster space, take a rookie salary, and get waived 1-2 months into the season.

Look at earlier NBA drafts and note how many of these guys just get waived and don't even qualify as a 3rd string guy:

2004 NBA Draft

20 Jameer Nelson (PG) Denver Nuggets (traded to Orlando for future 1st round pick)
21 Pavel Podkolzine (C) Utah Jazz (from Houston, traded to Dallas for future 1st round pick)
22 Viktor Khryapa (SF) New Jersey Nets (traded to Portland for Eddie Gill and cash)
23 Sergei Monia (SG) Portland Trail Blazers (from Memphis)
24 Delonte West (PG) Boston Celtics (from Dallas Mavericks)
25 Tony Allen (SG) Boston Celtics (from Detroit Pistons)
26 Kevin Martin (SG) Sacramento Kings
27 Sasha Vujačić (PG) Los Angeles Lakers
28 Beno Udrih (PG) San Antonio Spurs
29 David Harrison (C) Indiana Pacers
30 Anderson Varejão (PF) Orlando Magic (traded to Cleveland Cavaliers)
31 Jackson Vroman (C) Chicago Bulls (traded to Phoenix Suns)
32 Peter John Ramos (C) Washington Wizards
33 Lionel Chalmers (PG) Los Angeles Clippers (from Charlotte Bobcats)
34 Donta Smith (SF) Atlanta Hawks
35 Andre Emmett (F/G) Seattle SuperSonics (from L.A. Clippers, traded to Memphis)
36 Antonio Burks (PG) Orlando Magic (from Phoenix, traded to Memphis)
37 Royal Ivey (PG) Atlanta Hawks (from Philadelphia 76ers)
38 Chris Duhon (PG) Chicago Bulls (from Toronto Raptors)
39 Albert Miralles (PF) Toronto Raptors (from Cleveland Cavaliers)
40 Justin Reed (SF) Boston Celtics
41 David Young (G) Seattle SuperSonics
42 Viktor Sanikidze (SF) Atlanta Hawks (from Golden State through Orlando)
43 Trevor Ariza (SF) New York Knicks
44 Tim Pickett (SG) New Orleans Hornets
45 Bernard Robinson (SF) Charlotte Bobcats (from Milwaukee Bucks)
46 Ha Seung-Jin (C) Portland Trail Blazers
47 Pape Sow (PF) Miami Heat
48 Ricky Minard (SG) Sacramento Kings (from Utah Jazz)
49 Sergei Lishouk (PF) Memphis Grizzlies (from Denver through Orlando)
50 Vasileios Spanoulis (PG) Dallas Mavericks (from Houston through Denver)

[AFBlue]

Wow people expect way too much from late picks. Other than Josh Howard, the FO has done rather well with what they have. It doesn't matter if we draft domestic -- most of the time late pick scrubs take up roster space, take a rookie salary, and get waived 1-2 months into the season.

Look at earlier NBA drafts and note how many of these guys just get waived and don't even qualify as a 3rd string guy:

2004 NBA Draft

20 Jameer Nelson (PG) Denver Nuggets (traded to Orlando for future 1st round pick)
21 Pavel Podkolzine (C) Utah Jazz (from Houston, traded to Dallas for future 1st round pick)
22 Viktor Khryapa (SF) New Jersey Nets (traded to Portland for Eddie Gill and cash)
23 Sergei Monia (SG) Portland Trail Blazers (from Memphis)
24 Delonte West (PG) Boston Celtics (from Dallas Mavericks)
25 Tony Allen (SG) Boston Celtics (from Detroit Pistons)
26 Kevin Martin (SG) Sacramento Kings
27 Sasha Vujačić (PG) Los Angeles Lakers
28 Beno Udrih (PG) San Antonio Spurs
29 David Harrison (C) Indiana Pacers
30 Anderson Varejão (PF) Orlando Magic (traded to Cleveland Cavaliers)
31 Jackson Vroman (C) Chicago Bulls (traded to Phoenix Suns)
32 Peter John Ramos (C) Washington Wizards
33 Lionel Chalmers (PG) Los Angeles Clippers (from Charlotte Bobcats)
34 Donta Smith (SF) Atlanta Hawks
35 Andre Emmett (F/G) Seattle SuperSonics (from L.A. Clippers, traded to Memphis)
36 Antonio Burks (PG) Orlando Magic (from Phoenix, traded to Memphis)
37 Royal Ivey (PG) Atlanta Hawks (from Philadelphia 76ers)
38 Chris Duhon (PG) Chicago Bulls (from Toronto Raptors)
39 Albert Miralles (PF) Toronto Raptors (from Cleveland Cavaliers)
40 Justin Reed (SF) Boston Celtics
41 David Young (G) Seattle SuperSonics
42 Viktor Sanikidze (SF) Atlanta Hawks (from Golden State through Orlando)
43 Trevor Ariza (SF) New York Knicks
44 Tim Pickett (SG) New Orleans Hornets
45 Bernard Robinson (SF) Charlotte Bobcats (from Milwaukee Bucks)
46 Ha Seung-Jin (C) Portland Trail Blazers
47 Pape Sow (PF) Miami Heat
48 Ricky Minard (SG) Sacramento Kings (from Utah Jazz)
49 Sergei Lishouk (PF) Memphis Grizzlies (from Denver through Orlando)
50 Vasileios Spanoulis (PG) Dallas Mavericks (from Houston through Denver)


Sorry Sabar, there are some really good picks in that list. I've highlighted them...

Agree with Mr. Body that while recruiting is ultimately an unknown, there are telling factors and measurables that lessen the risk. It's not a total crapshoot.

[AFBlue]

Nick Fazekas is projected to be available around our 1st round pick. If he is available, we should take him... Mobile, rebounds, shooter...
Currently 2nd in PER in college (1st playing significant minutes), 3ed in Efficiency, 10th in pts/40 (2nd if adjusted for team pace), 15.4 rbds/40 min (4th overall), 58.8 FG%, 47.2 3FG% (college 3). He's good, don't know why people think he will fall so far.

He'll fall because scouts feel he doesn't have the athleticism to guard 3s or the strength to guard 4/5. I personally think he'd be a great pickup, but I don't think the Spurs snag him with the first pick...SF is the priority.

[sabar]

Sorry Sabar, there are some really good picks in that list. I've highlighted them...

Agree with Mr. Body that while recruiting is ultimately an unknown, there are telling factors and measurables that lessen the risk. It's not a total crapshoot.

Most != all

[ChumpDumper]

Looks like both lists show a less than 1/3 success rate.

Swell.

[Maddog]

You'd think solid scouting and talented scouts would cut down on the risk factor massively for draft picks. Not a perfect science, but it's far from an utter crap shoot.
It's really amazing how misses there are in the draft. Despite huge amounts being spent drafting etc.
Everybody talks about the 2003 draft- it was incredible- maybe 3 possible hall of famers maybe more- and look at Barbosa and Josh Howard who fell to the 28th and 29th spot!
But look at the draft critticaly and you'll see a fair number of screwups in the first round.
I agree it's a little unfair to critisize the Spurs on a miss here and there. Granted since 03 they haven't come up with much. In defense it looks like they have learned from their mistakes.
They probably should have taken Lee over Ian- but take a look at who was drafted ahead of the Spurs- a fair number of players who may never amount to much.
Round 1
# Team Name College/HS/Country
1 MIL Andrew Bogut Utah
2 ATL Marvin Williams North Carolina
3 UTA Deron Williams Illinois
4 NOH Chris Paul Wake Forest
5 CHA Raymond Felton North Carolina
6 POR Martell Webster Seattle Prep
7 TOR Charlie Villanueva Connecticut
8 NYK Channing Frye Arizona
9 GSW Ike Diogu Arizona State
10 LAL Andrew Bynum St. Joseph High School
11 ORL Fran Vasquez Spain
12 LAC Yaroslav Korolev Russia
13 CHA Sean May North Carolina
14 MIN Rashad McCants North Carolina
15 NJN Antoine Wright Texas A & M
16 TOR Joey Graham Oklahoma State
17 IND Danny Granger New Mexico
18 BOS Gerald Green Gulf Shores Academy
19 MEM Hakim Warrick Syracuse
20 DEN Julius Hodge NC State
21 PHO Nate Robinson Washington
22 DEN Jarrett Jack Georgia Tech
23 SAC Francisco Garcia Louisville
24 HOU Luther Head Illinois
25 SEA Johan Petro France
26 DET Jason Maxiell Cincinnati
27 POR Linas Kleiza Missouri
28 SAS Ian Mahinmi France
29 MIA Wayne Simien Kansas
30 NYK David Lee Florida

[Mr. Body]

What hurts as much as anything is that the Spurs' reluctance to hang on to and use their late draft picks wound up immeasurably enriching their current two biggest rivals: Phoenix, by giving them Leandro Barbosa, and Dallas, with Josh Howard.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, everyone knew they were going to be so good they fell to the end of the first round.

[objective]

lol, the Spurs themselves think they needed to improve domestic scouting, what is so hard to understand about how that relates?

They themselves think they could do better than they have. They aren't paying someone to be DCPP when they could have just counted on another intern putting together a 5-minute highlight video in-house again just for the hell of it.

They're trying the best they can to win more titles, not just throw their hands in the air and say, "Oh well! Not every draft can be successful! Look at how few good players there are! Such a crap shoot. Let's just draft another guy that we don't even what he looks like."

[Mr. Body]

Yes, everyone knew they were going to be so good they fell to the end of the first round.

Dallas and Phoenix were smart enough to want them.

[AFBlue]

Yes, everyone knew they were going to be so good they fell to the end of the first round.

Decent players fall on draft day for a myriad of reasons:

1. They lack "upside"
2. They are too short, skinny, slow, or fat
3. They have bad attitude/poor work ethic
4. GM Stupidity (my favorite)

Guys like Parker and Arenas don't come around every day, but the Spurs can hope to find one or two contributors if they scout well enough....

[Mr. Body]

lol, the Spurs themselves think they needed to improve domestic scouting, what is so hard to understand about how that relates?

They themselves think they could do better than they have. They aren't paying someone to be DCPP when they could have just counted on another intern putting together a 5-minute highlight video in-house again just for the hell of it.

They're trying the best they can to win more titles, not just throw their hands in the air and say, "Oh well! Not every draft can be successful! Look at how few good players there are! Such a crap shoot. Let's just draft another guy that we don't even what he looks like."

Yeah. Most everything points to the Spurs themselves recognizing a problem with their strategy and looking for a change. There are people here claiming - if only by inertia - that the Spurs will do what they've always done, which is draft foreign and stash them overseas. I don't see the team doing that this year. The need for fresh talent is too dire, which thankfully corresponds with what should be a deep draft. Even if they wind up being nothing, you'll probably find some decent SF prospects with the Milwaukee pick, even, such as Nichols from Syracuse or Dudley or Byers. Regardless, it is absolutely imperative the Spurs get a good rookie out of this draft, and they know it.

[ChumpDumper]

Dallas and Phoenix were smart enough to want them.And? Was that the prediction back then?

I agree the slash and burn for cap space was wrong, but nobody thought those players would be that good and it's ridiculous that people bring them up every day on this board like they discovered plutonium. Get over it.

[smrattler]

I'm so sick of Spurs fans dropping back and second guessing this front office's picks. You can stop bitching about players like Josh Howard and the like, because you aren't going to make a great player out of every draft pick you have. In fact, if you make a good player out of half of your picks, you're doing a damn good job and considering the Spurs have gotten 2 of their big three with less than stellar picks they're doing quite well. Manu is probably the 2nd best 2nd round pick OF ALL TIME and Tony was damn near a 2nd round pick himself.

They haven't made bad picks in the 1st round with the exception of Beno. And you can argue that Beno has all the talent in the world to be a 1st round pick, but it was his intangibles that stop him from working out. They didn't pass on Howard for a Euro, they passed on him for Jason Kidd so it would be really nice if people would stop revising history and stick to what actually happened.

The one problem I have - and it feels like this has to be stated over and over and over and over again on this board - is that the Spurs have traded away their 1st round picks that could have been effective in order to save money. But lets be honest - had they drafted Josh Howard - he wasn't guaranteed to succeed here and where was the money going to come from to pay everyone? The Spurs are already at the Luxury Tax with Tony and Manu and if Howard had blown up here who would they keep?

If you had to pick 3 out of the 4 of Duncan, Manu, Tony, and Howard, I know who I exclude and he's the guy that is in Dallas right now. I sure as hell would rather have Manu and Duncan. And while he may be a toss up with Parker - I think Tony impacts the game far more than Howard does.

People can bitch about all they want out of context, but when you compare this front office to the rest of the league, you find that they may not have drafted perfectly but overall the team management of the Spurs is very efficient and good at what they do.

Did you tell everyone here to stop bit#hing about the Howard pick and then defend the Spurs not drafting him?

[sabar]

If you want total suck just look at the 2006 NBA Draft.
There's really only so much scouts can do.

[objective]

And? Was that the prediction back then?

I agree the slash and burn for cap space was wrong, but nobody thought those players would be that good and it's ridiculous that people bring them up every day on this board like they discovered plutonium. Get over it.

Tim Duncan thought Howard would be good. And then over the years Pop has declared that he wanted Howard back then also.

[objective]

If you want total suck just look at the 2006 NBA Draft.
There's really only so much scouts can do.

the 06 class is indeed quite poor.

[ChumpDumper]

Tim Duncan thought Howard would be good. And then over the years Pop has declared that he wanted Howard back then also.Plutonium!

[sabar]

see: Darko Milicic

[Mr. Body]

And? Was that the prediction back then?

Who cares about the stupid predictions? What, Chad Ford didn't think Barbosa was going to be dynamite off the bench? Some SI idiot didn't realize Howard was going to be an All-Star within 3 years? Who cares what they think? I'm sure Phx and Dallas are surprised and happy they've turned out to be as good as they are, but they did think they would be good. And they were right. And it's demonstrably affected their relationship vis-a-vis the Spurs. No Josh Howard, no Mavs victory over the Spurs. He absolutely kills us. Trying to sweep all this under the carpet is stupid. Should we not relive past failures? Well, we can, if we want to.

Other than that, your argument seems to be: late first round picks tend to flame out, therefore we should not bother using them. Yet demonstrably this is not the case. There is ALWAYS a gaggle of players still left who impact the league. That the #28 pick doesn't always pan out is the fault of team's lousy scouting and reliance on finger crossing far more than it's the fault of the #28 pick itself.

Teams don't draft blindly; they have rosters of players they like and wait to see if they're available where they pick. If that team picks one of their guys with their late pick and that guy winds up sucking, that's their own damn fault. It doesn't mean it's impossible or unlikely. It means that you need better scouting. The Spurs have exclusively relied on foreign R&D, essentially. They need (and have started) to also have a domestic R&D department.

[AFBlue]

the 06 class is indeed quite poor.

But the 07 class should not be. Scouts were going into the 06 draft saying that a weak draft class had gotten weaker with the 1yr of college rule for the Odens and Durants of the world.

07 is supposedly stacked, though we'll have to see who actually declares.

[Mr. Body]

the 06 class is indeed quite poor.

Really bad. We were excited to get a late-first round type talent out of it and that guy turned out to be James White. :dizzy

At least he has a 5% chance of becoming anything, but damn was that a lousy year. Even the guys I held hope for trading up to get have turned out fairly crappy so far (Ronnie Brewer, even Rodney Carney... although who I really liked was Sefalosha).

Fortunately this year's draft looks much better.

[ChumpDumper]

your argument seems to be: late first round picks tend to flame out, therefore we should not bother using them.Wrong. My argument is most folks put way too much importance on late first rounders and second rounders, when even the best scouting results in less than a 33% success rate.

[Mr. Body]

So we shouldn't talk about the draft?

[ChumpDumper]

Overrate it all you want.

[Mr. Body]

And claim we shouldn't care about it all you want. :lol

[objective]

Wrong. My argument is most folks put way too much importance on late first rounders and second rounders, when even the best scouting results in less than a 33% success rate.

the people who "put way too much importance on late first rounders and second rounders" on this thread seem to be people who are actually advocating for 'the best scouting' so that the Spurs can have the best chances possible at helping the team.

[ChumpDumper]

Then I would argue we got the wrong guy for that judging from the picks his teams have taken.

We might be able to get one or two guys who are able to play in the NBA. Wow.

[objective]

Then I would argue we got the wrong guy for that judging from the picks his teams have taken.

We might be able to get one or two guys who are able to play in the NBA. Wow.

how dare you disagree with the Spurs FO decision.

And if the Spurs picked up a James Jones type, that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[ChumpDumper]

So he could play six games for us? I thought we needed more help than that next season.

[yavozerb]

The people bitching about the spurs FO are the same people who thought we got the second coming Drob with jackie butler. People, if these players were so clear cut good (like mr. body makes them sound like) why did they even make it to the end of the 1st round (I am referring to barbosa and howard).

[objective]

The people bitching about the spurs FO are the same people who thought we got the second coming Drob with jackie butler. People, if these players were so clear cut good (like mr. body makes them sound like) why did they even make it to the end of the 1st round (I am referring to barbosa and howard).

Who exactly thought Jackie Butler would be a hall-of-fame center capable of leading the league in scoring, rebounds, blocks, and be an MVP?

Please name them, I would like to laugh at them.

In regards to the part about 'clear cut' this and falling to 'end of first round' that . . . isn't that part of why teams scout players?

It isn't always clear cut . . . that's why scouting is important.

And maybe, just maybe, that's why the Spurs created the post of DCPP and hired someone for it. Because they themselves think it's important to actually evaluate talent as well as they can.

[shaq_h8ter]

What's clear cut is that the Spurs don't seem to need any more guards that's probably why they let them pass.

Guards are not they're biggest issue and you can see that by the talent they're trying to get from over seas.

They want a center or a power forward that could pair with Timmy D.

The Spurs are also in hurting for a small forward that can grow into filling Bruce's defensive role at the very least, something like a 6-9 Devin Brown.

In fact next to center the small forward position is the biggest hole in line up if you don't count Timmy D as a center.
We miss you David and Sean! :depressed

[MannyIsGod]

Let me break Chumps point to you all since so many of you (read: Mr. Body) have trouble understanding it.

You shouldn't bitch about a front office missing someone with a 28th pick because most of the time you don't find those players. This team isn't wasting lottery picks and they're doing fine with the later picks. Teams that are in serious title contention do not usually improve from the draft, they improve via free agency/trades because they only need minor tweaks. Miami did that, and Detroit did that. The Spurs did that as well.

[T Park]

Thank you manny.

[AFBlue]

Let me break Chumps point to you all since so many of you (read: Mr. Body) have trouble understanding it.

You shouldn't bitch about a front office missing someone with a 28th pick because most of the time you don't find those players. This team isn't wasting lottery picks and they're doing fine with the later picks. Teams that are in serious title contention do not usually improve from the draft, they improve via free agency/trades because they only need minor tweaks. Miami did that, and Detroit did that. The Spurs did that as well.

The Spurs may have had the luxury of taking fliers on raw international prospects in the past, but it's just not the reality this year. The Spurs have legitimate concerns for the first time in a while (the needs are well documented so I won't repeat) and will need to address those needs, preferably before 2008. Since the Spurs only have $5M to play with, these draft choices may be very critical to the future success.

I'm not messing with past draft issues, I'm saying that the Spurs NEED to pull one out of their ass for this draft, or they'll be in some trouble.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm saying that the Spurs NEED to pull one out of their ass for this draft, or they'll be in some trouble.Or trade.

Or sign a free agent.

[whottt]

I agree with Manny to an extent...except on the 2003 draft. They traded that pick away, not because they didn't think they could get talent with it...but because they were trying to clear cap for Jason Kidd.

I don't know about anyone else, but I knew Kidd wasn't coming, I knew the pursuit of him was going to piss Parker off, I knw that even if Kidd did come he wouldn't have the impact most expected and likely would have age and injury issues, and most importantly, I knew there were players in that draft that were taken, into the second round, that were going to be good NBA players.

2003 was a huge screwup...not just in the draft, but FA that offseason, the over pursuit of Kidd...just everything about it. The only thing good to come out of that offseason was Robert Horry, and it's no surprise we didn't repeat.

[AFBlue]

Or trade.

Or sign a free agent.

$5M and an expiring contract don't buy what they used to...

I'm not saying that FA won't be important, or that trades won't need to be made, but you should acknowledge that this draft is potentially very important to the long-term future of this team is legitimate.

[ChumpDumper]

$5M and an expiring contract don't buy what they used to...I'm sure you thought that before the Hedo trade too. I sure did.

[AFBlue]

I'm sure you thought that before the Hedo trade too. I sure did.

So you think it's far more likely that the Spurs parlay $5M and a couple expiring contracts into immediate contributors over the draft?

[ChumpDumper]

So you think it's far more likely that the Spurs parlay $5M and a couple expiring contracts into immediate contributors over the draft?More likely than getting immediate contributors from the end of the first or second rounds?

Yes.

[AFBlue]

More likely than getting immediate contributors from the end of the first or second rounds?

Yes.

You may not be wrong. Still, I hope the Spurs think of their legitimate and immediate needs when drafting this year. It's always a luxury to have too many guys that can give you solid minutes right?

[MannyIsGod]

I agree with Manny to an extent...except on the 2003 draft. They traded that pick away, not because they didn't think they could get talent with it...but because they were trying to clear cap for Jason Kidd.

I don't know about anyone else, but I knew Kidd wasn't coming, I knew the pursuit of him was going to piss Parker off, I knw that even if Kidd did come he wouldn't have the impact most expected and likely would have age and injury issues, and most importantly, I knew there were players in that draft that were taken, into the second round, that were going to be good NBA players.

2003 was a huge screwup...not just in the draft, but FA that offseason, the over pursuit of Kidd...just everything about it. The only thing good to come out of that offseason was Robert Horry, and it's no surprise we didn't repeat.:lol

But I said it was because of Kidd so how are you disagreeing with me? I too think it was a mistake.

[MannyIsGod]

I think you guys should be prepared for the Spurs FO to miss out with picks in the future because <gasp> it will happen.

[ArgSpursFan]

Let me break Chumps point to you all since so many of you (read: Mr. Body) have trouble understanding it.

You shouldn't bitch about a front office missing someone with a 28th pick because most of the time you don't find those players. This team isn't wasting lottery picks and they're doing fine with the later picks. Teams that are in serious title contention do not usually improve from the draft, they improve via free agency/trades because they only need minor tweaks. Miami did that, and Detroit did that. The Spurs did that as well.

And Good 2nd. rounders(read:Scola,Javtokas,Mahinmi,etc)

[timvp]

And Good 2nd. rounders(read:Scola,Javtokas,Mahinmi,etc)

More excellent knowledge from south of the border. :reading

[RADECK]

Oberto to Spain, Scola to Spurs!!!!!

[ArgSpursFan]

More excellent knowledge from south of the border. :reading

Yeah,I was the one who said Ely was coming to be the 3rd.Spurs Big man.Ohh sit that was YOU!! :smokin

keep spreading the knowledge coach. :smokin

[ArgSpursFan]

I must got confused,cause I can belive he actually was picked in the late 1st round sucking the way he does.

[Mr. Body]

1. Why the received wisdom that the FO passed on Josh Howard because they were going after Jason Kidd? How much does a #28 pick start at? Would this have ever been the difference between Kidd coming and Kidd running for the hills?

Isn't there the chance that Buford simply didn't want him?

2. As Manny and others blithely ignore, these discussions all revolve around WHAT THE SPURS WILL DO THIS YEAR. People really don't care what happened in the past, except as predictor for what may happen this year and next. Sure, it would be nice to have drafted Josh Howard (although Manny inexplicably doesn't think so), but the whole point of the conversation is the strategy of this team's efforts to acquire new talent. Howard constantly comes up because it is allegorical for how this team has completely overlooked domestic scouting.

I know these are very delicate concepts to think about, but it all revolves around 2007. What are we going to do? So Chump thinks we shouldn't be concerned about a #28 pick at all. So Manny thinks Oberto is better than Josh Howard. Those are your opinions, but they don't get in the way, for some of us, of the fact that this a deep draft and, with good scouting, the Spurs may manage to find good domestic players available. Will they pass again?

[Buddy Holly]

Yeah,I was the one who said Ely was coming to be the 3rd.Spurs Big man.Ohh sit that was YOU!! :smokin

keep spreading the knowledge coach. :smokin

And from what I've seen, Ely > Oberto.

Tim, Elson, Ely, Oberto.

[ArgSpursFan]

And from what I've seen, Ely > Oberto.

Tim, Elson, Ely, Oberto.

5 pts and 3 rbs in 2 games.
Not saying he aint worst or better tham anybody,but where did you noticed that?

[ChumpDumper]

So Chump thinks we shouldn't be concerned about a #28 pick at all.No. Quit lying aobut what I say, dipshit.

[Mr. Body]

Aw, misrepresenting what people say is an art form in this forum.

[mabber]

Utah And Dallas Interested In Cabezas.

Anyone know much about this guy? I don't know anything about him other than he plays for Spain.

[Kori Ellis]

Utah And Dallas Interested In Cabezas.

Anyone know much about this guy? I don't know anything about him other than he plays for Spain.

He plays for Unicaja in the Spanish League. They are currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament and so far they are 2-1. In 16 games in Euroleague competition this year, he's averaged 9 points and 2 assists in 27 minutes per game. In this tournament, in 3 games, he's averaging about 7 and 4.

[Kori Ellis]

Here's his stats for Spanish League games this year:

http://www.unicajabaloncesto.com/estadisticas.php

Here's his stats for Euroleague games this year:

http://www.euroleague.net/main/teams/showteamstats?clubcode=mal

[mabber]

He plays for Unicaja in the Spanish League. They are currently playing in the Euroleague Top 16 tournament and so far they are 2-1. In 16 games in Euroleague competition this year, he's averaged 9 points and 2 assists in 27 minutes per game. In this tournament, in 3 games, he's averaging about 7 and 4.

Thanks...much appreciated.

[Kori Ellis]

You are welcome. Perhaps someone here who has watched more Spanish League or Euroleague games can tell you more. By stats, he doesn't seem special.

[velik_m]

The spurs should try to get Prigioni from Tau, not Scola

[mabber]

You are welcome. Perhaps someone here who has watched more Spanish League or Euroleague games can tell you more. By stats, he doesn't seem special.

Bruno gave me his take on him and he doesn't seem like a player that either Utah or Dallas would want. Maybe the story is BS. I got it off RealGM daily email.

[Altromondo]

http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/9216/180

Scola sets Euroleague's all-time scoring mark
History was made in Vitoria on Wednesday, as Luis Scola of Tau Ceramica climbed into first place in Euroleague Basketball's all-time scoring list. Scola (206, 26) entered Tau's home game against Maccabi with 1,973 points in 138 games and needed just 7 to overcome Marcus Brown, who scored 1,979 points since the competition started in year 2000. Scola scored 8 points in the game's first 5 minutes, breaking the record on a short jump shot, one of his trademarks. He finished with 25 points as Tau won 94-73, clinching a Quarterfinal Playoffs berth and first place in Group D, which comes with homecourt advantage in the next round. Scola's scoring against Maccabi left him with 1,998 points, which means his next basket will allow him to reach the 2,000-point mark sooner than any other Euroleague player. Scola, a reigning Olympic champion and one of the best power forwards in the world, signed with Tau in January 1998 but joined the team before the start of the 1999-00 season. He has helped Tau to win a Spanish League title in 2002, as well as lifting three Spanish King'c Cup trophies in 2002, 2004, 2006. He also helped Tau reach Euroleague finals in 2001 and 2005, as well as adding a Final Four appearance last season. Scola won the 2004 Olympic Games with Argentina and also helped his national team to make it to the 2002 World Championships title game.

[JUUOT]

Pau won Today. Ian had his best game of the euroleague tournament i would say.

17mn 5points 6 defensive rebounds and just 3 fouls.
1/3 fg and 3/4FT

he has been hampered by ankles a good part of the season but it seems there might be some light at .....

[JohnK]

Nocioni is a free agent after this season. Just sign him and we have 3 Argentines and another championship. Then use the other guys to buy down in the draft.

[Bruno]

Nocioni is a free agent after this season. Just sign him

It's not that simple. Nocioni will be a restricted free agent and Bulls won't let him go.

Nocioni with a Spurs jersey is a pipe dream.

[timvp]

It's not that simple. Nocioni will be a restricted free agent and Bulls won't let him go.

Nocioni with a Spurs jersey is a pipe dream.
:tu

The Spurs could offer Nocioni a maxed out MLE contract and the Bulls would happily match it.

[T Park]

Would you support the Spurs going after Nocioni and trying though?

Or if they avoid that, and go elsewhere, will there be critique of them not even "trying"

[Bruno]

Would you support the Spurs going after Nocioni and trying though?

Or if they avoid that, and go elsewhere, will there be critique of them not even "trying"

Spurs should try to go after Nocioni without counting on him and without wasting too much time on that.

The only way to get Nocioni is to do a S&T with Chicago because he will cost more than the MLE. You cna imagine the following scenario :

- Chicago doesn't want to spend money on Nocioni because they still have 2 tweener SF/PF (Deng and Thomas) and because they will spend a lot of money on Deng and Gordon extensions.

- No teams under the cap is interesting in Nocioni and/or Nocioni hasn't found a team under the cap he likes : they are few teams under the cap this summer and they aren't contender.

- Nocioni wants to sign with Spurs because they are a contender and because of Manu.

- Spurs are ready to give Nocioni a long term contract : screw 2008, screw 2010, Holt likes to spend money. ;)

- Bulls like what Spurs offer. Chicago was interested in Scola in the past, they really need a low post scorer and the good experience with Nocioni could let them think that Scola will help them a lot.

- No other teams that Nocioni likes has a better offer than Spurs' one. It's quite unlikely but you can always imagine that few teams need a SF/PF (SF is the most crowded spot in nba) and that Nocion really push to do a S&T with SA.

There are no stage that is really crazy but the problem is that each stage should be true and that makes this scenario higly unlikely.