Weakness in TD's game

[mikekim]

I love tim duncan and I will always defend him whenever anyone tries to wrongfully criticize his game or character...but one aspect of his game that never ceases to frustrate me is (not his ft's...he's improved on that this year) the fact that whenever he goes from right to left across the lane, he insists on shooting the ball with his right hand, effectively exposing the ball to the defender. I don't know why he doesn't just work on a left handed hook going across the lane that way...

in 2005 finals, he got blocked multiple times by Rasheed Wallace doing this same move and after seeing the game against Atlanta (the one where Manu went Jordan/reggie/tmac/kobe on the hawks...king james the future of the nba?? forget that....it's king ginobili. we're all witnesses.), I saw tim do the same move AGAIN! Although he scored on it, and I think he got an and-1, this was on zaza pachulia and lorenzen wright...against guys like Yao, Camby, Rasheed and maybe even Boozer or even Diop/Dampier, or Shaq, I'm afraid this shot will get brutally blocked or hopelessly altered...all night.

I don't even remember the last time he shot that shot with his left hand (although I'm out here on the west coast with no TV and I don't catch as many games as I would like...unless I dl them on bittorrent). This really irks me...

You know that swooping move Tim uses across the lane the other way? Where he takes it from the left side of the paint to the right while doing a mini-runner-semi-hook with his right? If he could do that same move going left...it would be great.

Sorry about this long post about just one move and one "flaw" in TD's game but am I the only one that's noticed/bothered by this???

[timvp]

Welcome and solid first post. For whatever reason, Duncan has gotten a lot more right-hand dominant as the years have gone on. Early in his career, he used his left hand much more.

I know the move you are talking about and I'm not a big fan of it either. However, I think he uses that move to setup his up and under moves. I agree that in general, it wouldn't hurt Duncan to go back to using his left hand more.

In the '99 season, I'd say about 20% of his shots were with his left hand. Nowadays, it's more like 5%.

[weebo]

I love tim duncan and I will always defend him whenever anyone tries to wrongfully criticize his game or character...but one aspect of his game that never ceases to frustrate me is (not his ft's...he's improved on that this year) the fact that whenever he goes from right to left across the lane, he insists on shooting the ball with his right hand, effectively exposing the ball to the defender. I don't know why he doesn't just work on a left handed hook going across the lane that way...

in 2005 finals, he got blocked multiple times by Rasheed Wallace doing this same move and after seeing the game against Atlanta (the one where Manu went Jordan/reggie/tmac/kobe on the hawks...king james the future of the nba?? forget that....it's king ginobili. we're all witnesses.), I saw tim do the same move AGAIN! Although he scored on it, and I think he got an and-1, this was on zaza pachulia and lorenzen wright...against guys like Yao, Camby, Rasheed and maybe even Boozer or even Diop/Dampier, or Shaq, I'm afraid this shot will get brutally blocked or hopelessly altered...all night.

I don't even remember the last time he shot that shot with his left hand (although I'm out here on the west coast with no TV and I don't catch as many games as I would like...unless I dl them on bittorrent). This really irks me...

You know that swooping move Tim uses across the lane the other way? Where he takes it from the left side of the paint to the right while doing a mini-runner-semi-hook with his right? If he could do that same move going left...it would be great.

Sorry about this long post about just one move and one "flaw" in TD's game but am I the only one that's noticed/bothered by this???

Gosh, I hope you're not losing any sleep over this.

[Pugglekicker_21]

I agree about how he used his left hand mucj more andd this isnt a major flaw but it could account for more points if he corrects it, which I dont think he'll bother to try to do.

[mikekim]

Gosh, I hope you're not losing any sleep over this.

haha...no...I haven't lost sleep over it yet (maybe if he insists on using it in the playoffs without much success). But yeah...it does frustrate me whenever I see him do it because every time he does it, and is successful with it, he gets that much more comfortable with the move...a move that will not be too effective against some of our more formidable opponents (the degree of "frustration" is fairly low though....but I think they will build up after a while...haha).

and if it's the mostly clear, thorough, semi-well-written language of the post that makes you think that I have put an excessive amount of thought into this, I could assure you that it's not something I rack my brain about. The clear writing just comes naturally cuz you know...I work out.

[MI21]

He does score a lot of points off of that move because he gives a little bump into the defender to keep the defender grounded. But there is certainly times where he should use his left hand on the move, because like has been said, it does get blocked a fair amount too.

It is strange how Timmy doesn't use his left hand as much as he used especially considering he has lost some athleticism and quickness. When he does use it, he does still have very good touch as well. Odd.

[ShoogarBear]

The other problem with that move is that he's always fading away when he releases it, as opposed to the swooping move in the other direction, so he rarely picks up the foul with it. And it only goes in because it softly bounces around the rim a few times. Not exactly what I would call a go-to move.

[The_Worlds_finest]

I havent read through all the post but I will say if not already stated he holds the ball in a weak spot when he is under the basket. You all know what Im talking about. And also if he threw in a pump fake or two he would get more open shots...not nazr style pump fakes btw

[mikekim]

Welcome and solid first post. For whatever reason, Duncan has gotten a lot more right-hand dominant as the years have gone on. Early in his career, he used his left hand much more.

I know the move you are talking about and I'm not a big fan of it either. However, I think he uses that move to setup his up and under moves. I agree that in general, it wouldn't hurt Duncan to go back to using his left hand more.

In the '99 season, I'd say about 20% of his shots were with his left hand. Nowadays, it's more like 5%.

Oh sorry timvp, thanks for the welcoming. I've been visiting occasionally for a while whenever I'd be curious about spurs info (which happens from time to time...) since I don't get as much spurs coverage out here in Laker-land. Laker fans are tough to talk basketball with...generally speaking. So I've decided to turn to you guys (that includes the reasonable fans of other teams who post here as well...yes, even Mavs fans...).

And yeah...it definitely wouldn't hurt for Tim to use his left hand more these days. This is the NBA after all (a league with a somewhat dwindling reputation of having the "best" players in the game). And you'd figure Tim would develop and use other areas of his game more (like his left hand) as he gets older and less athletic (not that he was extremely athletic to begin with).

He's still one of my favorite players though--as a number of the Spurs are...seriously, I can't think of any other team off the top of my head that's made up of a more likable, classy, professional group of guys (not to mention, a group of guys who have had as much success as the Spurs have had over the past decade or so...albeit w/ different rosters...the identity of the team hasn't changed all that much throughout that time though).

[TDMVPDPOY]

td is pansy if you ask me

[mikekim]

td is pansy if you ask me

Well, then I'll be sure not to ask you...haha

but I am wondering what your name means if you mean what you say

Oh...and I'm sorry for posting so much on my own thread...I don't know if that breaks any forum etiquette (don't have much experience being in a forum) but it seems like it would be. I'll slow it down now :)

[slayermin]

And yeah...it definitely wouldn't hurt for Tim to use his left hand more these days. This is the NBA after all (a league with a somewhat dwindling reputation of having the "best" players in the game). And you'd figure Tim would develop and use other areas of his game more (like his left hand) as he gets older and less athletic (not that he was extremely athletic to begin with).

He's at his best when he's mixing it up. I think the best example of TD at his best is from the '03 West semis. In game six, he scored 37 points on shots Tom Tolbert described as Tim playing around the world. He shot the 18 footer more frequently and consistently back then. It is nice to see him taking more bank shots lately. That will keep defenders off balance.

But I can't lie, his free throws do worry me.

[SRJ]

He does score a lot of points off of that move because he gives a little bump into the defender to keep the defender grounded.

Good point, and I think he got that shot blocked more in the 2005 Finals because of the condition of his ankles and he couldn't drive into that defender the way he normally could. And of course, Rasheed is likely the best defender Duncan faces year in year out.

Off topic, you're not the Notorious MI21, are you? Just curious.

[ggoose25]

He's at his best when he's mixing it up. I think the best example of TD at his best is from the '03 West semis. In game six, he scored 37 points on shots Tom Tolbert described as Tim playing around the world.

:drunk I remember thinking Tim finally grew a pair in that series against the lakers. He took over that game six, and willed us to a championship. Oh and he made kobe cry :downspin:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g28/niktle/KobeCryin.jpg

[raspsa]

He also flirts with picking up a silly foul when he run out at the top of the key to try and harass the opposing player with the ball ala Patrick Ewing.. though the intention is good, TD has only 6 fouls to give and he should save them for when it counts.. unlikely that he'll force a turnover; a foul would be the more likely outcome.

[Man In Black]

Laker fans are tough to talk basketball with...generally speaking.

They can be and there are a whole bunch of us Spurs fans that deal with them that linve here in So Cal.

[SRJ]

He also flirts with picking up a silly foul when he run out at the top of the key to try and harass the opposing player with the ball ala Patrick Ewing.. though the intention is good, TD has only 6 fouls to give and he should save them for when it counts.. unlikely that he'll force a turnover; a foul would be the more likely outcome.

I have no problem with this play - he's not trying to force a turnover, he's simply disrupting, or attempting to disrupt, what the play is designed to do. In that two-man set, the pick is designed to force the defenders to switch and in theory, the guard should be able to blow past the big and penetrate. Duncan, by popping out that high on a play like that, often forces the guard further backwards by cutting off his angle.

It happens so often that I'm sure Pop wants it that way. I know I don't have a problem with it.

[Big Dee Chi-Born]

I love tim duncan and I will always defend him whenever anyone tries to wrongfully criticize his game or character...but one aspect of his game that never ceases to frustrate me is (not his ft's...he's improved on that this year) the fact that whenever he goes from right to left across the lane, he insists on shooting the ball with his right hand, effectively exposing the ball to the defender. I don't know why he doesn't just work on a left handed hook going across the lane that way...

in 2005 finals, he got blocked multiple times by Rasheed Wallace doing this same move and after seeing the game against Atlanta (the one where Manu went Jordan/reggie/tmac/kobe on the hawks...king james the future of the nba?? forget that....it's king ginobili. we're all witnesses.), I saw tim do the same move AGAIN! Although he scored on it, and I think he got an and-1, this was on zaza pachulia and lorenzen wright...against guys like Yao, Camby, Rasheed and maybe even Boozer or even Diop/Dampier, or Shaq, I'm afraid this shot will get brutally blocked or hopelessly altered...all night.

I don't even remember the last time he shot that shot with his left hand (although I'm out here on the west coast with no TV and I don't catch as many games as I would like...unless I dl them on bittorrent). This really irks me...

You know that swooping move Tim uses across the lane the other way? Where he takes it from the left side of the paint to the right while doing a mini-runner-semi-hook with his right? If he could do that same move going left...it would be great.

Sorry about this long post about just one move and one "flaw" in TD's game but am I the only one that's noticed/bothered by this???


The problem is that Tim Duncan is being played on the left block too much, and it makes his footwork off the right block horrible. He never drop steps(towards the baseline) on the right block. That's an effect from playing on the left block all time as a right hander. On the left block most right handers are going to go across the lane, staying with their strong hand and shoot the jumphook. If they drop step on the left block it's too easy to foul a right hand shooter because that right hand is right next to the defender(and 7 times out of 10 Tim's going to go up right handed). The Heat are doing the samething with Shaq! It takes away from their power game and turn them into jumphook shooters! Tim still has his bank shot on the left side, but I would rather have that power game. On that right block Tim & Shaq can drop step and pin the defender with their left shoulder and still play the glass. If the defender slaps down they would only be able to get the left hand and you could still get the ball up.

I saw the same thing you did with how Tim plays against Rasheed. Pop needs to get him more middle of the lane touches and right block touches.

[Sec24Row7]

Tim is playing better now than he has in 2 years...


His shot from the top of the key is back..

His Bankshot is back...

I'm starting to believe again.

[Big Dee Chi-Born]

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u263/BigDeeChiBorn/WIMG10612210258.jpg

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u263/BigDeeChiBorn/WIMG10412210242.jpg

[Big Dee Chi-Born]

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u263/BigDeeChiBorn/169409_480_art_R0.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u263/BigDeeChiBorn/12579781.jpg

[stretch]

the one where Manu went Jordan/reggie/tmac/kobe on the hawks...king james the future of the nba?? forget that....it's king ginobili. we're all witnesses.

not a bad post... until you typed this.

[Jimcs50]

Welcome and solid first post. For whatever reason, Duncan has gotten a lot more right-hand dominant as the years have gone on. Early in his career, he used his left hand much more.

I know the move you are talking about and I'm not a big fan of it either. However, I think he uses that move to setup his up and under moves. I agree that in general, it wouldn't hurt Duncan to go back to using his left hand more.

In the '99 season, I'd say about 20% of his shots were with his left hand. Nowadays, it's more like 5%.




It is not that he can not use his left hand, it is because he has developed a technique that requires the use of his off arm(left)

Simply put, as Duncan turns over his left shoulder towards the basket, he “chops” away the defenders arm. It sometimes throws the defender off balance a little. It sometimes misdirects the defenders attention. Its subtle enough to give TD an edge, without getting the refs to call him on it.

TD uses geometry to play basketball more than any post player out there, the bank shots, and this move as his pet moves. TD is the master of precision in angles and motion, so he no longer needs the left handed shot like early in his career.

[slayermin]

not a bad post... until you typed this.

If you watched the game, you would know what he's talking about because Manu did go Jordan on the Hawks.