Obama's shady deals

[2centsworth]

This sucks because I was hoping he was different. Though I don't agree with most of his politics, he came across as a decent man. What's most disappointing is that the story states, Obama became a leader in the effort to raise money to fight avain flu after becoming an substantial investor in a company that would directly benefit from such efforts.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/07/us/politics/07obama.html?ei=5065&en=f0e5d8c4bd9329a9&ex=1173934800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print



March 7, 2007

In ’05 Investing, Obama Took Same Path as Donors

By MIKE McINTIRE and CHRISTOPHER DREW (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/d/christopher_drew/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Less than two months after ascending to the United States Senate (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/s/senate/index.html?inline=nyt-org), Barack Obama (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per) bought more than $50,000 worth of stock in two speculative companies whose major investors included some of his biggest political donors.

One of the companies was a biotech concern that was starting to develop a drug to treat avian flu. In March 2005, two weeks after buying about $5,000 of its shares, Mr. Obama took the lead in a legislative push for more federal spending to battle the disease.

The most recent financial disclosure form for Mr. Obama, an Illinois Democrat, also shows that he bought more than $50,000 in stock in a satellite communications business whose principal backers include four friends and donors who had raised more than $150,000 for his political committees.

A spokesman for Mr. Obama, who is seeking his party’s presidential nomination in 2008, said yesterday that the senator did not know that he had invested in either company until fall 2005, when he learned of it and decided to sell the stocks. He sold them at a net loss of $13,000.

The spokesman, Bill Burton, said Mr. Obama’s broker bought the stocks without consulting the senator, under the terms of a blind trust that was being set up for the senator at that time but was not finalized until several months after the investments were made.

“He went about this process to avoid an actual or apparent conflict of interest, and he had no knowledge of the stocks he owned,” Mr. Burton said. “And when he realized that he didn’t have the level of blindness that he expected, he moved to terminate the trust.”

Mr. Obama has made ethics a signature issue, and his quest for the presidency has benefited from the perception that he is unlike politicians who blend public and private interests. There is no evidence that any of his actions ended up benefiting either company during the roughly eight months that he owned the stocks.

Even so, the stock purchases raise questions about how he could unwittingly come to invest in two relatively obscure companies, whose backers happen to include generous contributors to his political committees. Among those donors was Jared Abbruzzese, a New York businessman now at the center of an F.B.I. (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/f/federal_bureau_of_investigation/index.html?inline=nyt-org) inquiry into public corruption in Albany, who had also contributed to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/s/swift_boat_veterans_for_truth/index.html?inline=nyt-org), a group that sought to undermine John Kerry (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/john_kerry/index.html?inline=nyt-per)’s Democratic presidential campaign in 2004.

Mr. Obama, who declined to be interviewed about the stock deals, has already had to contend with a controversy that arose out of his reliance on a major campaign contributor in Chicago to help him in a personal financial transaction. In that earlier case, he acknowledged last year that it had been a mistake to involve the contributor, a developer who has since been indicted in an unrelated political scandal, in deals related to the Obamas’ purchase of a home.

Senate ethics rules do not prohibit lawmakers from owning stocks — even in companies that do business with the federal government or could benefit from legislation they advance — and indeed other members of Congress have investments in government contractors. The rules say only that lawmakers should not take legislative actions whose primary purpose is to benefit themselves.

Mr. Obama’s sale of his shares in the two companies ended what appears to have been a brief foray into highly speculative investing that stood out amid an otherwise conservative portfolio of mutual funds and cash accounts, a review of his Senate disclosure statements shows. He earned $2,000 on the biotech company, AVI BioPharma, and lost $15,000 on the satellite communications concern, Skyterra, according to Mr. Burton of the Obama campaign.

Mr. Burton said the trust was different from qualified blind trusts that other senators commonly used, because it was intended to allow him greater flexibility to address any accusations of conflicts that might arise from its assets. He said Mr. Obama had decided to sell the stocks after receiving a communication that made him concerned about how the trust was set up.

The investments came at a time when Mr. Obama was enjoying sudden financial success, following his victory at the polls in November 2004. He had signed a $1.9 million book deal, and his ethics disclosure reports show that he received $1.2 million of book money in 2005.

His wife, Michelle, a hospital vice president in Chicago, received a promotion that March, nearly tripling her salary to $317,000, and they bought a $1.6 million house in June. The house sat on a large property that was subdivided to make it more affordable, and one of Mr. Obama’s political donors bought the adjacent lot.

The disclosure forms show that the Obamas also placed several hundred thousand dollars in a new private-client account at JPMorgan Chase, a bond fund and a checking account at a Chicago bank.

But he put $50,000 to $100,000 into an account at UBS, which his aides say was recommended to him by a wealthy friend, George W. Haywood, who was also a major investor in both Skyterra and AVI BioPharma, public securities filings show.

Mr. Haywood and his wife, Cheryl, have contributed close to $50,000 to Mr. Obama’s campaigns and to his political action committee, the Hopefund. Mr. Haywood declined to comment.

Within two weeks of his purchase of the biotech stock that Feb. 22, Mr. Obama initiated what he has called “one of my top priorities since arriving in the Senate,” a push to increase federal financing to fight avian flu.

Several dozen people had already died from the disease in Southeast Asia, and experts were warning that a worldwide pandemic could kill tens of millions of people. Mr. Obama was one of the first political leaders to call for more money to head off the danger, which he described as an urgent public health threat.

His first step came on March 4, 2005, when the Senate Foreign Relations Committee approved his request for $25 million to help contain the disease in Asia; the full Senate later approved that measure. And in April 2005, he introduced a bill calling for more research on avian flu drugs and urging the government to increase its stockpiles of antiviral medicines.

Mr. Obama repeated this call in a letter that Aug. 9 to Michael O. Levitt, the health and human services secretary. And in September 2005, Mr. Obama and Senator Tom Harkin (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/tom_harkin/index.html?inline=nyt-per), Democrat of Iowa, succeeded in amending another bill to provide $3.8 billion for battling the flu.

Meanwhile, the drug company in which he invested, AVI BioPharma, had been working to develop its own medicine to treat avian flu victims. In a conference call with Wall Street analysts on March 8, 2005, the company’s chairman, Denis R. Burger, said the firm was “aggressively going forward” with its avian flu research and hoped to work with federal agencies on it.

The company, which is also developing medicines in a number of other areas, provided several updates on its avian flu research in 2005, including one on Oct. 21 saying the company was likely to develop a treatment for avian flu “in a relatively short time.”

Mr. Obama sold what appears to have been about 2,000 shares of the company’s stock a week later, when it traded at about $3.50 a share, or about $1 a share more than when he bought it. Company officials said they never talked to the senator about his work on avian flu. And while the company has received millions of dollars in federal money to develop drugs for treating ebola and other serious diseases, it still has not received any federal money for its avian flu research.

The company’s stock briefly surged to nearly $9 a share in January 2006 when it announced promising research findings on the flu drug. But the company still has not applied for federal approvals to test and market the drug.

Unlike his investment in AVI, which yielded a small profit, Mr. Obama’s stake in Skyterra Communications went in the opposite direction, despite a promising start.

He bought his Skyterra shares the same day the Federal Communications Commission (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/f/federal_communications_commission/index.html?inline=nyt-org) ruled in favor of the company’s effort to create a nationwide wireless network by combining satellites and land-based communications systems. Immediately after that morning ruling, Tejas Securities, a regional brokerage in Texas that handled investment banking for Skyterra, issued a research report speculating that Skyterra stock could triple in value.

Tejas and people associated with it were major donors to Mr. Obama’s political committees, having raised more than $150,000 since 2004. The company’s chairman, John J. Gorman, has held fund-raisers for the senator in Austin, Tex., and arranged for him to use a private plane for several political events in 2005. Mr. Gorman declined to comment.

In May 2005, Mr. Abbruzzese, who was vice chairman of Tejas and a principal investor in Skyterra, contributed $10,000 along with his wife to Mr. Obama’s political action committee — a departure from his almost exclusive support of Republicans (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/republican_party/index.html?inline=nyt-org). Eight months earlier, for instance, he had contributed $5,000 to the Swift Boat group, and he has given $100,000 to the Republican National Committee (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/republican_national_committee/index.html?inline=nyt-org) since 2004.

Last year, Mr. Abbruzzese, a major investor in several high-tech companies in New York and elsewhere, emerged as a central figure in the federal investigation of the New York State Senate majority leader, Joseph L. Bruno (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/joseph_l_bruno/index.html?inline=nyt-per). The inquiry is examining Mr. Bruno’s personal business dealings, including whether he accepted money from Mr. Abbruzzese in return for Senate approval of grants for one of Mr. Abbruzzese’s companies. Both men have denied any wrongdoing. Mr. Abbruzzese did not return phone calls seeking comment.

Skyterra’s share price was lifted into the $40 range for a time on the strength of the F.C.C. ruling, but eventually drifted down into the low 30s, and was at $31 when Mr. Obama sold his shares for a $15,000 loss on Nov. 1, 2005. A few months later, it plunged into the $20 range, and today trades below $10 a share. A spokesman for Skyterra said the company’s top officials had not been aware of Mr. Obama’s investment.

[clambake]

So he took a loss, that makes him a rookie. So a contributor went from repub to democrat, just like millions of americans did in Nov. So a millionaire suggested he invest in a certain stock, big whoop.

I guess when I suggested to friends, years ago, that they invest in Amer. Brands because of potential, that made me corrupt? The fact that a stock split ( making it Fortune and Gallaher ) doubled their investment somehow makes it shady?

I know some guys in the WH connected to Haliburton and Enron.

[Yonivore]

This sucks because I was hoping he was different.
Well, he's not.

[ggoose25]

Its hard to say whether he knew he had purchased the stock or not. Regardless, I'm glad to see that he did the right thing in selling it.

But unlike most repubs, he didnt wait to be outed by the media before taking ameliorable action.

[clambake]

Reading comprehension is a struggle for some.

[2centsworth]

I guess when I suggested to friends, years ago, that they invest in Amer. Brands because of potential, that made me corrupt?

Not at all, but your example is way different from that in the article. Here's where it would be similar, you owned Amer. Brands, you were a big contributor to your friends political campaign, your friend after investing in your company used his political influence to raise federal funds for your company.

That's a huge ethics problem, but if you want to look the other way sobeit.

[clambake]

No, I understand what you're saying, but having taken a loss might suggest that he saw a conflict of interest and terminated his holdings, at a loss. He was his own vehicle to this financial hit. Nobody twisted his arm.

[pussyface]

...not sure how anyone could be surprised by this.
politicians mysteriously make lots of money during their time as "public servants." as a rule, they all leave richer than they came.

why was he supposed to be different? because he is black?

the guy is a politician for christ's sake...this sort of thing is why, to make a grand sweeping statement, government doesn't work.

[2centsworth]

No, I understand what you're saying, but having taken a loss might suggest that he saw a conflict of interest and terminated his holdings, at a loss. He was his own vehicle to this financial hit. Nobody twisted his arm.
He thought the trust would create plausible deniability. If we wanted to investigate further, and I don't, we would have to find out if the story had already been leaked or who was asking questions before Obama sold.


Nevertheless, it leaves him open to questioning his ethics. Will the media or the rebulicans find more? to be cont...

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Dude creates a blind trust, lost $13,000 when he divested completely upon realizing the conflict, disclosed everything and we're supposed to be angry about it?

[2centsworth]

:lol Dude creates a blind trust, lost $13,000 when he divested completely upon realizing the conflict, disclosed everything and we're supposed to be angry about it?
Facts are wrong as usual.

Here are the corrections:

1. He never created the trust.

2. The reason why he divested is still open to interpretation

3. There still a lot more to disclose, but really it's not worth it unless there are more stories like this out there.

[clambake]

At least with your statement, " This sucks because I was hoping he'd be different" means you're unhappy with what we've been stuck with for over 6 years. The guys we have now are in neck deep with ties to oil. Now Bush is giving the full court press on clean coal. I doubt that is a surprise.

[ChumpDumper]

Facts are wrong as usual.

Here are the corrections:

1. He never created the trust.The spokesman, Bill Burton, said Mr. Obama’s broker bought the stocks without consulting the senator, under the terms of a blind trust that was being set up for the senator at that time but was not finalized until several months after the investments were made.

“He went about this process to avoid an actual or apparent conflict of interest, and he had no knowledge of the stocks he owned,” Mr. Burton said. “And when he realized that he didn’t have the level of blindness that he expected, he moved to terminate the trust.”

Created <> complete.
2. The reason why he divested is still open to interpretationHe wanted to lose money. It's obvious. That's what all investors do.
3. There still a lot more to disclose, but really it's not worth it unless there are more stories like this out there.If it's not worth it, why is there so much to disclose?

[clambake]

So, 2cents is just taking shots at Obama? Not really interested in whether he is different?

Some of those people I encouraged are politicians. You won't see any of them pushing for Gallaher on the hill. Maybe you should consider that some of them are quite different.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think Obama is much different from other politicians.

I also think this is much ado over nothing. Actually much ado over -13,0000.

[clambake]

He may not be that different, but I'd dump bush for him in a heartbeat. All we have to judge by is how he speaks and what he says, so he's already killing bush in the competence department.

[2centsworth]

The spokesman, Bill Burton, said Mr. Obama’s broker bought the stocks without consulting the senator, under the terms of a blind trust that was being set up for the senator at that time but was not finalized until several months after the investments were made.

“He went about this process to avoid an actual or apparent conflict of interest, and he had no knowledge of the stocks he owned,” Mr. Burton said. “And when he realized that he didn’t have the level of blindness that he expected, he moved to terminate the trust.”

He moved to create the trust after the investments were made. He's trying to insinuate he tried to set it up before the investments were made, but didn't finalize the paperwork unitl after. If that's the truth, he's accusing his broker of breaking a very serious rule, which is never mentioned. Also, could it be that some news orgainzation or political foe starting snooping so Obama scrambled to sell the stock.

The -13,000 is so irrelevent but you have to be open minded to see it.



Created <> complete.He wanted to lose money. It's obvious. That's what all investors do.If it's not worth it, why is there so much to disclose? maybe he wanted to save his political hide for the low cost of -13,000. Owning 2-3k shares of a speculative stock can make you millions, see Ebay, Dell etc... Especially when you have a political heavyweight lobbying for federal funds.



Again, I like Obama because most of the interviews I've seen of him have been honest and civil.

[ChumpDumper]

He moved to create the trust after the investments were made.The spokesman, Bill Burton, said Mr. Obama’s broker bought the stocks without consulting the senator, under the terms of a blind trust that was being set up for the senator at that time but was not finalized until several months after the investments were made.
He's trying to insinuate he tried to set it up before the investments were made, but didn't finalize the paperwork unitl after. If that's the truth, he's accusing his broker of breaking a very serious rule, which is never mentioned.What rule?
Also, could it be that some news orgainzation or political foe starting snooping so Obama scrambled to sell the stock.Which one? This is the first time it's come out. Shouldn't one of Yoni's blogs had it first?
The -13,000 is so irrelevent but you have to be open minded to see it.Actually it's quite crucial to understanding how miniscule an issue this is.
maybe he wanted to save his political hide for the low cost of -13,000.Maybe he found out that there was a conflict of interest and acted to change it. Really, do you actually believe that he thought he was getting away with something since all the stocks and contributions are reported regularly?
Again, I like Obama because most of the interviews I've seen of him have been honest and civil.How do you know he's been honest?

[2centsworth]

The spokesman, Bill Burton, said Mr. Obama’s broker bought the stocks without consulting the senator... The broker broke the law if that's true. That's why I think he's trying to protect the Senator. Legally the broker could only purchase the stock with the express consent of mr. obama.

Sounds like they are trying to back track and say a trust was going to be set-up, doesn't fly under NASD scruitny.


What rule? Discretionary trading


Which one? This is the first time it's come out. let's see if that's true. no way we have enough info to determine that.


Actually it's quite crucial to understanding how miniscule an issue this is. you're trying to cloud the issue by focusing on this aspect. For instance, if I try to rob you but instead give you $20 upon discovering I'm going to be busted, does it matter that I gave you $20?


Maybe he found out that there was a conflict of interest and acted to change it. Really, do you actually believe that he thought he was getting away with something since all the stocks and contributions are reported regularly?
He did use the help of a large contributor to help him with personal financial problems in the past. Again, I don't think a full investigation is necessary unless other questionable items start popping up.



How do you know he's been honest?
In my opinion he's been intellectually honest.

[ChumpDumper]

The broker broke the law if that's true.Which law? What are the penalties?
let's see if that's true. no way we have enough info to determine that.We don't heve enough information to determine this is the first time we've heard about it?
you're trying to cloud the issue by focusing on this aspect. For instance, if I try to rob you but instead give you $20 upon discovering I'm going to be busted, does it matter that I gave you $20?Did Obama commit a crime? What exactly is your charge here?
In my opinion he's been intellectually honest.In my opinion, he's been a politician like any other.

[whottt]

I'm not voting for Obama but this is just BS circumstantial crap trying to sensationalize something that every politician does.

Newsflash...

Politicians seek power, fame and wealth. All of them.

You just try to separate the ones that know what the hell they are talking about from the ones that don't...you don't try to find the ones that aren't greedy and power hungry, for they do not exist.

This is the equivalent of acting like Cheney trying to make money for Haliburton(as their CEO) is some kind of mortal sin.

Lame.

[2centsworth]

Which law?
Discrestionary trading without written consent. I'm not going to look up the code number. However, I will tell you if you open an account with a broker and he begins making stock trades without your express written consent he can get canned.


What are the penalties?
Monetary penalty, suspension, loss of license. An arbitration panel would decide.



We don't heve enough information to determine this is the first time we've heard about it? first that we've heard about it, but maybe the NYT isn't the first thorn who's heard about it.


Did Obama commit a crime? according to the article no. However, I now question his ethics.

[clambake]

Whottt is absolutely right.

I have people that make investments without my consent, but mostly on my own.

Never been accused of a crime.

[2centsworth]

This is the equivalent of acting like Cheney trying to make money for Haliburton(as their CEO) is some kind of mortal sin.

if Cheney did go to war to make money, then the devil awaits.

[whottt]

However, I now question his ethics.


:lmao


He's a politician :lol


The last Presidential politician with ethics was George Washington.


There are two kinds of politicians...

Smartones(that are successful at achieving their goals) and Dumbones(who just kind of got lucky but there was no skill behind it). Those are the only 2 choices you ever truly have that have anything to do with ethics.

[ChumpDumper]

Discrestionary trading without written consent. I'm not going to look up the code number. However, I will tell you if you open an account with a broker and he begins making stock trades without your express written consent he can get canned.Then what exactly is a blind trust? Does Obama and every person in America need to give express written consent for every individual stock transaction. I really need to see that code.
Monetary penalty, suspension, loss of license. An arbitration panel would decide.Not a criminal court? You're saying this isn't a crime?
first that we've heard about it, but maybe the NYT isn't the first thorn who's heard about it.Yeah, they would just sit on it.
according to the article no.So there really isn't anything here.
However, I now question his ethics.:lol Have you voted for anyone, ever?

[ggoose25]

Cheney went to war based on a flawed ideology. He just figured he might as well make money off the American people in the process.

[2centsworth]

Whottt is absolutely right.

I have people that make investments without my consent, but mostly on my own.

Never been accused of a crime.
a broker that makes trades without your consent is breaking a major NASD rule. Give me his name so I can show you what i mean.

[clambake]

Consent will only come in play if there's a client-broker dispute. That would be civil letigation.

[spurster]

It was a BLIND TRUST. The stockbroker is supposed to manage the portfolio without informing or consulting with the owner.

[2centsworth]

Consent will only come in play if there's a client-broker dispute. That would be civil letigation.
wrong on both counts.

[clambake]

Would you feel any better about Obama if he sued his broker? I doubt it.

[2centsworth]

It was a BLIND TRUST. The stockbroker is supposed to manage the portfolio without informing or consulting with the owner.
no BLIND TRUST established at the time of the trades.

[2centsworth]

Would you feel any better about Obama if he sued his broker? I doubt it.
hell no, his broker is out their trying to protect him.

[clambake]

So, your pissed because he LOST money. I get it. No profit to burn him at the stake with.

[2centsworth]

:lmao


He's a politician :lol


The last Presidential politician with ethics was George Washington.


There are two kinds of politicians...

Smartones(that are successful at achieving their goals) and Dumbones(who just kind of got lucky but there was no skill behind it). Those are the only 2 choices you ever truly have that have anything to do with ethics.

I still hold out hope for the person who is just trying to do the right thing.

[2centsworth]

So, your pissed because he LOST money. I get it. No profit to burn him at the stake with.
you were doing so well.

[ChumpDumper]

no BLIND TRUST established at the time of the trades.But blind trusts do exist, don't they?

What is a blind trust and why do they all violate a "major NASD rule" according to you?

[Fillmoe]

you guys voted in a cokehead who's family was directly connected with adolf hitler..... and now y'all want to question this? :lol :lol

[clambake]

You're wrong about consent.

[2centsworth]

But blind trusts do exist, don't they?

What is a blind trust and why do they all violate a "major NASD rule" according to you?
I never never said that. Point is, there was no Blind Trust established at the time of the trades in question. I

[clambake]

Ohhhhh, that no t's had been crossed or i's dotted is your complaint. Lots of shit happens before contracts are complete. You snooze, you lose.

[clambake]

If Obama were republican, you would never have started this thread.

[2centsworth]

You're wrong about consent.
not at all. quick google search yield NYSE rule
Rules 408(a), (b) and (c)

"Violated Exchange Rules 408(a), (b) and (c) in that he exercised discretion in

the account of a customer without written authorization and without

notifying and obtaining the approval of his member firm employer"

[whottt]

I still hold out hope for the person who is just trying to do the right thing.


You just have to find the one who's ideas of how to accumulate wealth and power, and the party line he is going to have to toe, will leave a legacy close to what you consider the right thing.

They are all about $$$ and power.


Why in the hell would you want that job if it wasn't for power? It's the worst job in the world for someone who is genuinely trying to do the right thing, it's a brutal job that ages the shit out of you...he'd either get killed, never get the nomination to begin with or have his own party job him. That job is not for typical human beings...it's for peple with an extreme ego and anyone who lacks that will be destroyed.


You'll have better luck finding a unicorn than a truly ethical politician.


David Robinson has unquestionable ethics and character...he won't get within 100 miles of politics for that reason. He's not willing to compromise his beliefs....I suspect most ethical men would come up with the same conclusion.

Even a by the book guy like Clark has to compromise his beliefs...

[2centsworth]

If Obama were republican, you would never have started this thread.
absolutely.

[clambake]

"from a person other than the customer"

You left that out.

[ChumpDumper]

not at all. quick google search yield NYSE rule
Rules 408(a), (b) and (c)

"Violated Exchange Rules 408(a), (b) and (c) in that he exercised discretion in

the account of a customer without written authorization and without

notifying and obtaining the approval of his member firm employer"



Is that authorization necessary for each individual trade? Every one of them?

[clambake]

no

[ChumpDumper]

2cents says different.

[clambake]

ever heard of stop loss?

[ChumpDumper]

Gotta call first.

I imagine Bill Gates is on the phone with his broker every ten minutes or so.

[clambake]

Don't have to call first. Only applicable in broker-client dispute. Power of attorney personal investment broker. No mention of that with Obama, dig deeper.

[ChumpDumper]

No, 2cents said differently. Every stockholder has to approve of every individual transaction in every stock exchange on the face of the planet. There's no way a person could give advance consent for a broker to make trades on his behalf. 2cents said so.

[2centsworth]

Gotta call first.

I imagine Bill Gates is on the phone with his broker every ten minutes or so.
you guys are confusing the issue. You can give your broker discretion to trade in your account, but there needs to be a written agreement in place.

[2centsworth]

No, 2cents said differently. Every stockholder has to approve of every individual transaction in every stock exchange on the face of the planet. There's no way a person could give advance consent for a broker to make trades on his behalf. 2cents said so.
you are retarted, I'm convinced.

[clambake]

finally.

[ChumpDumper]

you are retarted, I'm convinced.Then you're saying Obama didn't necessarily have to authorize every individual trade his broker made?

[clambake]

You may now proceed in starting a new "I hate Obama" thread.

[2centsworth]

Then you're saying Obama didn't necessarily have to authorize every individual trade his broker made?
it's very simple. Yes, since the broker didn't have express written consent before hand. However, if the Blind Trust was in place then NO because the trust would have given the broker discretion.

[clambake]

So, Obama gave the broker money to invest without signing anything?

Who sings that song Dream Weaver?

[ChumpDumper]

So a broker can NEVER in any case make any individual trade on behalf of a client without authorization for that specific trade UNLESS it's in a completely blind trust?

[clambake]

So, you're just playing with him now, Chump?

[ChumpDumper]

It's the only way some folks realize what they are saying.

[JoeChalupa]

Not a real issue with me.

[2centsworth]

It's the only way some folks realize what they are saying.wow, I gave you too much credit. It's obvious you don't have a brokerage account.

There is a troll forum for you.

[2centsworth]

So, Obama gave the broker money to invest without signing anything?


show me where I said that.

[2centsworth]

So a broker can NEVER in any case make any individual trade on behalf of a client without authorization for that specific trade UNLESS it's in a completely blind trust?
show me where I said that

[ChumpDumper]

Then what exactly are you saying?

Either clients have to authorize every individual stock transaction their brokers make outside of a completely blind trust or they don't.

Do they or don't they?

[ChumpDumper]

wow, I gave you too much credit. It's obvious you don't have a brokerage account.It's obvious you don't know what fiduciary agreements can entail.

[Yonivore]

wow, I gave you too much credit. It's obvious you don't have a brokerage account.

There is a troll forum for you.
And get this! Master Baiter is a moderator!

[ChumpDumper]

Thanks for your contribution, Yoni. Why don't you put your law degree to use here like you did in the Libby thread, fuckwad.

[boutons_]

"shady deals" is one the prime perks of getting elected to office, perhaps the primary reason a lot of them run. Shady deals while in office, then lobbying jobs or fat govt contractor jobs after office.

[clambake]

2cents, keep your day job. The world needs ditch diggers, too.

[Drive Like Jehu]

If Obama were republican, you would never have started this thread.

Negative stories about Obama are not originating from the Republican side. Obama is the biggest threat to Hillary's Democratic ticket.

[Drive Like Jehu]

And get this! Master Baiter is a moderator!

Define define!

[2centsworth]

It's obvious you don't know what fiduciary agreements can entail.
it's obvious you don't have a clue. But you don't want to learn so just keep trolling.

[2centsworth]

For those who want to learn something: Here's what the NASD has to say on exercising discretion in a client's account. Essentially Obama charged his broker with violating 2510 b.

http://nasd.complinet.com/nasd/display/display.html?rbid=1189&record_id=1159005054&element_id=1159000525&highlight=discretion#r1159005054

[ChumpDumper]

2cents, does every broker in this country need written authorization for every single transaction the broker makes for every client in every case without exception?

Yes or no.

[xrayzebra]

Mute subject. If he really did have a blind trust, it is a non-issue.

[ChumpDumper]

There seem to be degrees of blindness. Say you didn't want to know the specific stocks you owned but gave instrucions to the broker to not make certain investments out of principle or risk or whatever. Is that completely blind?

Nope.

There are also all kinds of limited fiduciary agreements that 2cents will never acknowledge because he is either totally ignorant of them or just doesn't want to admit they exist because it might negate his entire tirade.

They do.

[2centsworth]

2cents, does every broker in this country need written authorization for every single transaction the broker makes for every client in every case without exception?

Yes or no.you're can't even frame a question from all the information that been provided. You're somewhere in left field without hope.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes or no.

[2centsworth]

Yes or no.what does your question have to do with Obama? You're in left field because you think your question has something to do with this thread and it doesn't.

If you want to learn, I'll teach you, but other than that go to the troll forum.

[ChumpDumper]

Is there any kind of fiduciary agreement outside of a completely blind trust where a broker can make stock transactions on a clients behalf without the client having to approve each individual stock transaction in writing?

Yes or no.

[2centsworth]

Is there any kind of fiduciary agreement outside of a completely blind trust where a broker can make stock transactions on a clients behalf without the client having to approve each individual stock transaction in writing?

Yes or no. Yes, it can be as simple as a written note signed by the client.

[xrayzebra]

Is there any kind of fiduciary agreement outside of a completely blind trust where a broker can make stock transactions on a clients behalf without the client having to approve in writing each individual stock transaction in writing?

Yes or no.

Is there such a thing as a conditional "blind" trust? Asking
in all sincerity. I don't think there would be. I know most
politicians, once elected, place their holdings in blind trust
to stop any questions about their investments. Which
I assume Obama did, and if he did, then what is the
problem with his investments. I assume blind means
he cant have a say on where his money is invested. But
I really don't know. I don't have the problem.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, it can be as simple as a written note signed by the client.Then why did you act like it couldn't possibly be that way in Obama's case?

Pretty disingenuous of you.

[2centsworth]

Then why did you act like it couldn't possibly be that way in Obama's case?

Pretty disingenuous of you.
not at all, because of the word Broker infers a non-fiduciary. Financial Advisor would be used if he was a fiduciary.

[ChumpDumper]

Is there such a thing as a conditional "blind" trust? Asking
in all sincerity. I don't think there would be. I know most
politicians, once elected, place their holdings in blind trust
to stop any questions about their investments. Which
I assume Obama did, and if he did, then what is the
problem with his investments. I assume blind means
he cant have a say on where his money is invested. But
I really don't know. I don't have the problem.Obama claims that he was trying to make a conditional blind trust where he could have instructions where NOT to put his money -- tobacco stocks and the like. So it couldn't have been a completely blind trust. Ironically, this was just the kind of conflict of interest he said he was trying to avoid.

My take is he's a neophyte when it comes to investing. He never really had much to invest before his book deal.

[ChumpDumper]

not at all, because of the word Broker infers a non-fiduciary. Financial Advisor would be used if he was a fiduciary.A broker could never receive such premission?

And a word would imply. You as the reader would infer.

[whottt]

My take is he's a neophyte when it comes to investing. He never really had much to invest before his book deal.


If he's that stupid I'm not electing him as my President. I want someone smarter than W.

Way to help out there :tu

[2centsworth]

A broker could never receive such premission?

And a word would imply. You as the reader would infer.he would cease being a broker. A broker is an agent of a company and represents the companies best interest. An Advisor, which could be a broker if he received such permission, is a fidicuiary and works for the client.

[ChumpDumper]

If he's that stupid I'm not electing him as my President. I want someone smarter than W.

Way to help out there :tuYou'd never vote for him anyway. I probably won't either.

[ChumpDumper]

he would cease being a broker. A broker is an agent of a company and represents the companies best interest. An Advisor, which could be a broker if he received such permission, is a fidicuiary and works for the client.Is it so difficult to say "yes" or "no"?

A broker can receive permission to make trades on a client's behalf in a fiduciary agreement.

Simple.

See, you didn't have to drag this out over two days.

[whottt]

You'd never vote for him anyway. I probably won't either.


False...if he says what I want to hear during the debates on foreign policy I might vote for him.


I didn't respect Kerry for ample reasons...

#1. He was traitor.
#2. He wasn't even a traitor with conviction.
#3. He wanted the US to be subservient to the corrupt UN body and some of the most corrupt countries in Europe.

And #4...

He was running on an out of Iraq platform...last President to run on a cut and run platform was Nixon in 72...how'd that turn out?

I think Nixon and Ford were complete assholes when it came to Vietnam...basically throwing the Vietnamese under the bus for their own political benfit. Not only that but they left a roadmap to success for other countries that engage us in warfare.


I am not as close minded as most of the people on this board...I just have strong feelings about what it's going to take to fix the middle east. And it's not going to be fixed by negotiations, sanctions, and sticking our heads in the sand...

I seriously doubt I will be voting for him...but it's not guranteed I won't like it was with Kerry. Don't mistake the Democrat failure to come up with a decent candidate in 04 as party bias on my part.


In any case...you are more naive that 2cents if you think Obama didn't know what was going down...

[2centsworth]

Is it so difficult to say "yes" or "no"?

A broker can receive permission to make trades on a client's behalf in a fiduciary agreement.

Simple.

See, you didn't have to drag this out over two days.

Again, what does that have to do with Obama?

Obama's argument is that he had no knowledge of the purchase. He could have supported his argument if there was a fiduciary agreement in place. That's why they mentioned the Blind Trust.

It may take more than two days to teach you, if that's possible.

[ChumpDumper]

Again, what does that have to do with Obama?

Obama's argument is that he had no knowledge of the purchase. He could have supported his argument if there was a fiduciary agreement in place. That's why they mentioned the Blind Trust.His claim was they were working under the terms of the conditional blind trust they were working to define. Is it possible to work under the terms of an agreement that is not finalized but includes a fiduciary component?

I'll answer for you so we can wrap this up this month.

Yes.

[2centsworth]

His claim was they were working under the terms of the conditional blind trust they were working to define. Is it possible to work under the terms of an agreement that is not finalized but includes a fiduciary component?

I'll answer for you so we can wrap this up this month.

Yes.
the fiduciary component is what helps "clear" him, so if there was another fiduciary component he sure as hell would have let everyone know. is

Since there wasn't a fiduciary component, the "we were working on a blind trust" is his only out.

For the record, we're misusing fiduciary, but it doesn't matter in our argument.

[ChumpDumper]

the fiduciary component is what helps "clear" him, so if there was another fiduciary component he sure as hell would have let everyone know.He did.
Since there wasn't a fiduciary component, the "we were working on a blind trust" is his only out.How do you come up with that? The word broker?
For the record, we're misusing fiduciary, but it doesn't matter in our argument.For the record, you misused the word "infer." That doesn't help your claim as the final authority on the English language.

[2centsworth]

He did.He didn't except his Blind Trust comeback which was proven not to be in place. If there was another "fiduciary" agreement in place he would have mentioned that, but he didn't.


For the record, you misused the word "infer." That doesn't help your claim as the final authority on the English language.wasn't an English criticism, but if someone else decided to chime in besides you I wanted to cover my hide. The reason I said that is because you can be a fiduciary and not have discretion over someone's account. I'm far from the authority on the English Language.

that's my 2cents, I'll let you have the last word.

[whottt]

Hedo>Manu


Yeap Chump, it's one of those. 2cents is kicking your ass. And you are fooling no one with your intellectual dishonesty.

[ChumpDumper]

He didn't except his Blind Trust comeback which was proven not to be in place. If there was another "fiduciary" agreement in place he would have mentioned that, but he didn't.He said they were working under the terms of a conditional blind trust that were not yet finalized. It's easy for a person who knows how to use the word "infer" to infer the broker was authorized to make trades for Obama without his knowledge. You think there was no agreement whatsoever and that Obama is accusing his broker of violating securities law and what else -- identity theft? Fraud? Which is easier to believe?
The reason I said that is because you can be a fiduciary and not have discretion over someone's account.There are all manner of fiduciary agreements. If a financial advisor or lawyer feels like further clarifying this, they are welcome. We apparently know what we area talking about now.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeap Chump, it's one of those. 2cents is kicking your ass. And you are fooling no one with your intellectual dishonesty.Fuck you, whottt. Go not join the army and not fight a war.

[whottt]

Ok clambake...

[ChumpDumper]

There's nothing intellectually dishonest about my argument. 2cents says Obama was accusing his broker of breaking securities law which is ridiculous on its face. He did nothing to prove it and ended up confirming my contentions that his broker indeed could have had authorization to use discretion in stock transactions.

That's all I was getting at, whottt -- there was no reason to come out from under your rock to add absolutely zero to the conversation. Go back to your Jack Bauer fantasies or bombing Mecca while you polish the gun Daddy gave you because you voted for W.

[xrayzebra]

There seem to be degrees of blindness. Say you didn't want to know the specific stocks you owned but gave instrucions to the broker to not make certain investments out of principle or risk or whatever. Is that completely blind?




Nope.

There are also all kinds of limited fiduciary agreements that 2cents will never acknowledge because he is either totally ignorant of them or just doesn't want to admit they exist because it might negate his entire tirade.

They do.

Sounds like Obama wanted it both ways, which I don't
see as possible. Sounds a whole lot like the Clinton's.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, I don't think the Clinton's would have tried to do the right thing in the first place.

[whottt]

Hey why are you getting pissed off at the judge?

I'm not trying to add anything...

I could end this debate in about 15 seconds if I chose...and I probably will when ya'll cease to amuse me.

But in the meantime...I just think it's funny that you were the one asking 2cents if he's ever voted for anyone...


Hedo>Manu should leave you with no doubts as to the point I was making...

Intelligence is not having to jump in front of a train to know it will hurt.

[ChumpDumper]

Hey why are you getting pissed off at the judge? :lol You're no judge. You're a troll. Why not just use your lame troll name?
I'm not trying to add anything.Never do.
I could end this debate in about 15 seconds if I chose.Don't bother. It's already done. Go back under your rock until you find a major political candidate that will pledge to nuke Mecca.

[Drive Like Jehu]

Nah, I don't think.


Fixed it.

[ChumpDumper]

Hedo>Manu should leave you with no doubts as to the point I was making...That you are ready to lie again? No surprise.
Intelligence is not having to jump in front of a train to know it will hurt.Then you should know to go back under your rock where you've been since Iraq went to shit.

[ChumpDumper]

I have internets!

[Drive Like Jehu]

I have verbal diarrhea!

[whottt]

:lol You're no judge. You're a troll. Why not just use your lame troll name?

LOL you actually looked? LMAO.

I'm not trolling at this particular time, just giving my honest opinion as to who is coming off better in this debate.

2Cents sounds legit and you come off as selectively looking the other way for no other reason than to win this argument.


And I admit to being surprised at this turn of events since 2cents kind of got off to a rought start...







Never do.Don't bother. It's already done. Go back under your rock until you find a major political candidate that will pledge to nuke Mecca.


Guilianni and Clark both will...

Ok I'm done.

Now I'm going to sit here and enjoy myself again.

[ChumpDumper]

And hootie, just for the record -- you stopped being relevant a long time ago.

And you have pined for Hedo on these very boards.

You're now just a troll that amusing about once every 20 posts.

Go back to using your lame troll name so I can put you on ignore.

[Drive Like Jehu]

And hootie, just for the record -- you stopped being relevant a long time ago.

And you have pined for Hedo on these very boards.

You're now just a troll that amusing about once every 20 posts.

Go back to using your lame troll name so I can put you on ignore.
:bang
I wish you'd log onto a troll name also, so I could put you on ignore.

[ChumpDumper]

:bang
I wish you'd log onto a troll name also, so I could put you on ignore.You can thank Yoni for that. He blew his chance.

And I don't even remember you, so you don't count.

[whottt]

And hootie, just for the record -- you stopped being relevant a long time ago.

Relevance is over-rated. I never came here for relevance.


And you have pined for Hedo on these very boards.

True..and I'm also pretty happy with Manu coming off the bench...

Obviously you don't remember the details of that argument.



You're now just a troll that amusing about once every 20 posts.

Too bad...because I find you to be immensely amusing in this thread...I actually feel guilty now for not returning the favor...I'll try to lose an argument badly so you won't feel like you're doing all the heavy lifting...deal?






Go back to using your lame troll name so I can put you on ignore.


Which one?

Never mind...I'll go back to using one of the ones you don't know.

[ChumpDumper]

2Cents sounds legit and you come off as selectively looking the other way for no other reason than to win this argument. So you believe Obama is accusing his broker of violating securities law?

Yes or no.

[Drive Like Jehu]

You can thank Yoni for that. He blew his chance.

And I don't even remember you, so you don't count.

:lol

S'okay, it's my bad...

I made an ass out of myself assuming a troll would follow it's own suggestion....

[ChumpDumper]

Obviously you don't remember the details of that argument. Nor do you, but it's convenient for you to lie about it, so you do.
Never mind...I'll go back to using one of the ones you don't know.No one has to look up IP addresses to know it's you. The lameness is self-evident.

[Drive Like Jehu]

You consider everyone lame....

therefore all posters are Whott trolls.

[ChumpDumper]

You consider everyone lame....

therefore all posters are Whott trolls.Not at all.

You might as well be a whottt troll, though. Who are you?

[Drive Like Jehu]

Not at all.

Yeah, your posts are a sping of positivism.

[ChumpDumper]

I didn't know that was my job. I'll try to accomodate you.

Good job misspelling "spring" -- you rock! You are my new favorite poster!

[Drive Like Jehu]

I didn't know that was my job. I'll try to accomodate you.

Good job misspelling "spring" -- you rock! You are my new favorite poster!

back at you chuckles....

[whottt]

Nor do you, but it's convenient for you to lie about it, so you do.No one has to look up IP addresses to know it's you. The lameness is self-evident.


LMAO that's funny...if you only knew :smokin

[Drive Like Jehu]

p.s.

Grammar criticism is a sign of a beaten troll.

[ChumpDumper]

PS: I still dont know who you are.

[whottt]

So you believe Obama is accusing his broker of violating securities law?

Yes or no.


Kick your own ass much? I thought Obama was a neophyte to the investment game?

One of the more humorous loads of crap you've shoveled into this thread in the last 3 or 4 pages.

[Drive Like Jehu]

PPS

Tell me why I should feed the troll and I'll tell ya...

[clambake]

2cents is a hack. He should be careful with any attempts to invest. Suckers are easy to smell. He's raw bait.

[Drive Like Jehu]

2cents is a hack. He should be careful with any attempts to invest. Suckers are easy to smell. He's raw bait.
What do they smell like, clambake?

[ChumpDumper]

Kick your own ass much? I thought Obama was a neophyte to the investment game?Answer the fucking question:

Is Obama accusing his broker of violating securities law?

Yes or no.

[whottt]

And seriously...I wasn't trying to get into an argument with you...just killing time while boutons figures out what a Macedonian is. And yes I think he's that stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

PPS

Tell me why I should feed the troll and I'll tell ya...If I'm a troll you're feeding me already. You aren't very smart.

[clambake]

Tears of financial ruin. But, I think he knows his point in this thread has failed the test.

[Drive Like Jehu]

Answer the fucking question:





Why I should feed the troll

[ChumpDumper]

I don't get understand where hootie and 2cents get Obama's accusing his broker of breaking the law. There is absoloutely nothing in any of these stories that even hints at that.

[whottt]

so clambake...have you ever considered actually promoting the fact that you are the world's stupidest person?

Might be a book deal in it for you.

[Drive Like Jehu]

Tears of financial ruin. But, I think he knows his point in this thread has failed the test.


No, no no...

I meant do suckers smell like clambake...

[ChumpDumper]

I don't understand that the question wasn't directed at me because I never posted anything here remotely related to the topic.

[whottt]

I don't get understand where hootie and 2cents get Obama's accusing his broker of breaking the law. There is absoloutely nothing in any of these stories that even hints at that.


If Obama is as stupid as you seem to think he is...how the hell would he have a clue if his broker violated a security law?

[Drive Like Jehu]

Troll on! :clap

[ChumpDumper]

If Obama is as stupid as you seem to think he is...how the hell would he have a clue if his broker violated a security law?I didn't say he was stupid. He tried to overmanage his investments when a blind trust would have been easier and given him complete deniability if some conflict of interest issue came up.

And why has no article anywhere said he has made such an accusation?

[ChumpDumper]

[Feeding]

[whottt]

I didn't say he was stupid. He tried to overmanage his investments when a blind trust would have been easier and given him complete deniability if some conflict of interest issue came up.

Ok, so you're saying he's really stupid. My bad.


And why has no article anywhere said he has made such an accusation?


Because Obama is declining to be interviewed about it right now?

[clambake]

Whott, why don't you start your own black hate thread?

[ChumpDumper]

Because Obama is declining to be interviewed about it right now?He's already talked about it. It's obvious you haven't read anything about it, so you might want to go back under your rock now.

[whottt]

Why don't you...you're the pilot fish on boutons, not me.

Get excstatic and Nbadan, the other members of the "they're too savage to be human" crew, to help out...you good hearted liberal you.

[clambake]

Always been afraid of blacks, Whottt?

[Drive Like Jehu]

Heckfire dumpy, are you suggesting you'd stop trolling if I stopped posting?

:lol

Congrats on another artful troll dodge (of course dodging is one of the few items in your bag of troll tactics).

What's next?

I'm hoping for something as high brow as your fuckwad comment earlier in the thread. You represent your cause well sir!

[ChumpDumper]

Obama set up a trust that gave his broker authority to trade stocks on his behalf without his input, according to 16 pages of documents he released Wednesday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17515394/

Apology accepted.

Ownage confirmed.

[clambake]

You can start your own thread. Why ride 2cents white gown?

[ChumpDumper]

Because Obama is declining to be interviewed about it right now?
"At no point did I know what stocks were held, and at no point did I direct how those stocks were invested," Obama told reporters at the end of a news conference called to trumpet an unrelated immigration bill.Go back under your rock, whottt. You are a shell of your former self.

[Drive Like Jehu]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17515394/

Apology accepted.

Ownage confirmed.

A troll like you knows better then assuming an attack needs to true to be valid....

The Clinton camp has already moved on...

www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0842516420070308

edited to fix link

[ChumpDumper]

I have no understanding of what has been discussed here the past two days.

[ggoose25]

haha :lol

[Drive Like Jehu]

Said the troll with kool-aid in his eyes.

[whottt]

Go back under your rock, whottt. You are a shell of your former self.



LMAO are you really that desperate?

[2centsworth]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17515394/

Apology accepted.

Ownage confirmed.

That's exactly the evidence I said he needed to provide to move toward clearing his name.

Other people may question how those obscure stocks found there way into the account. My answer is I'm sure Obama and the broker know the same people.

I'm happy it turned out this way, I still have hope for the guy.

[whottt]

So according to Chump the controversy is over...

Good to know.

[ChumpDumper]

Not desperate at all. One link was all it took to disprove the ridiculous assertions made by you and 2cents. All in a days posting.

[ChumpDumper]

I also have no understanding of what has been discussed the past two days.

[ChumpDumper]

I think his Harvard parking tickets constitute a bigger issue. And that is a nonissue.

[whottt]

LOL...do you really feel like you've won an argument with me Chump?

[2centsworth]

So according to Chump the controversy is over...

Good to know.
I'm sure it's not over for some, but the explanation is exactly what I needed to hear.

[clambake]

I was hoping more black haters would chime in.

[2centsworth]

Not desperate at all. One link was all it took to disprove the ridiculous assertions made by you and 2cents. All in a days posting.
the assertions were made by the NYT, not me.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL...do you really feel like you've won an argument with me Chump?It's ok, you were afraid to answer any questions in the first place. I don't have enough respect for you anymore to really press the issue. At least 2cents actually said something in this thread. Props to him.

[ChumpDumper]

the assertions were made by the NYT, not me.No, they made no such assertion. You inferred that from what wasn't in the article.

[whottt]

typical BS

Congratulations...

You've proved Obama is an idiot. Well done.

[ChumpDumper]

I concede.

[clambake]

Well, at least we know that Whottt's hate and fears are not all tied up in arabs.

[whottt]

It's ok, you were afraid to answer any questions in the first place.

Chump...you don't ask questions, you ask diversions...


I don't have enough respect for you anymore to really press the issue. At least 2cents actually said something in this thread. Props to him.

And I'd lose respect for myself if I tried to answer the bs loaded questions you ask to put people on the defensive...

So not only do you think Obama is an idiot...you also think I am a newbie to the board.

[2centsworth]

Gotta agree with Whottt that I was kicking the crap outta Chump. lol

[ChumpDumper]

Chump...you don't ask questions, you ask diversions...Nah, I asked you straight up yes or no questions and you pussed out like a coward.
And I'd lose respect for myself if I tried to answer the bs loaded questions you ask to put people on the defensive...Nah, I just ask people to confirm what they have already claimed, and they become chickenshit when they realized how idiotic their claims are.
So not only do you think Obama is an idiot...you also think I am a newbie to the board.I think you are a pussy who can't even own his own stupidity.

[whottt]

Gotta agree with Whottt that I was kicking the crap outta Chump. lol



Did you actually read the link Chump posted?

If I were you I wouldn't be so quick to think that link leaves any questions you might have about his ethics resolved.

They haven't been.

You were smarter when you were questioning them...and Chump is stupid for not doing so.


Let me put it another way...anyone that thinks this is naivete is stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

Gotta agree with Whottt that I was kicking the crap outta Chump. lolExcept that you were completely wrong along with him, yes.

[ChumpDumper]

Did you actually read the link Chump posted?

If I were you I wouldn't be so quick to think this issue leaves any questions you might have about his ethics resolved.

They haven't been.

You were smarter when you were questioning them...and Chump is stupid for not doing so.I don't think it's completely resolved.

I also don't think it will matter -- which was your first argument.

Or do you deny ever believing that too?

[2centsworth]

Except that you were completely wrong along with him, yes.
not at all, I was looking for the truth which required me to scrutinize every aspect of the case and not give Obama the benefit of the doubt.

[clambake]

Whitemans fear of blacks is a timeless tradition of the weak. Stop beating yourselves up. The weak never overcome their fear, so for everybodies sake, just try to avoid them. You know, like you have the arabs.

[whottt]

Nah, I asked you straight up yes or no questions and you pussed out like a coward.


Yawn...you tried to pigeonhole me into an argument that wasn't mine...

Which impresses intellecutal lightweights but only leaves me with the conclusion you are bush league at best.


Been there done that...









Nah, I just ask people to confirm what they have already claimed,

I never claimed anything except politicians seek power and wealth and anyone that thinks they don't is a fool.

That was my sole claim in this thread. And if you pull your head out you will see I have been consistent within this entire thread.


And I never said a thing one way or the other about what transpired between Obama and his Broker or the leaglities of it...only that 2cents was kicking your ass in arguing his point...and he was.






and they become chickenshit when they realized how idiotic their claims are.I think you are a pussy who can't even own his own stupidity.


Link?

[2centsworth]

Did you actually read the link Chump posted?

If I were you I wouldn't be so quick to think that link leaves any questions you might have about his ethics resolved.

They haven't been.

You were smarter when you were questioning them...and Chump is stupid for not doing so.


Let me put it another way...anyone that thinks this is naivete is stupid.
Of course there are still questions, but for this specific case there's enough tangible evidence (if Obama is telling the truth) to support Obama.

Unless other information is released, it's just a small blemish.

[whottt]

I also don't think it will matter -- which was your first argument.

Or do you deny ever believing that too?



It matters to 2cents.

[whottt]

Unless other information is released, it's just a small blemish.


No such thing as a small blemish in a presidential race.

Obama will come out much more damaged by people believing he was that stupid than if they had just believed he was using his position to make some $$$ and questionable ethics.

[clambake]

You gotta give Obama this. He knew the president was full of shit from the beginning.

[2centsworth]

It matters to 2cents.
it matters because I'm critical of potential securities fraud.

[2centsworth]

No such thing as a small blemish in a presidential race.

Obama will come out much more damaged by people believing he was that stupid than if they had just believed he was using his position to make some $$$ and questionable ethics.
in the world of politics, I'm sure you're right. In my book it's not as damaging.

[clambake]

You're only critical of democrat securities fraud. You stated earlier that you wouldn't have started this thread if he were republican.

[whottt]

Too bad he's too stupid on financial matters to handle pissant transactions without getting his ass kicked, much less the world's largest economy.

I'll take a greedy oil company war monger over an idiot that gets overmatched by a debit card any day of the week.

And so will rest of the US of A...as you'll see.


Come to think of it...Hilary's actually starting to win my vote over anyone else in this election, except for her Commie foreign policy. But one has to admire the sheer genius with which she is eviscerating Obama....she's destroying Obama before he's even out of the gate.


American's don't want a halpless victim of circumstance as their Pres.

[2centsworth]

You're only critical of democrat securities fraud. You stated earlier that you wouldn't have started this thread if he were republican.
no I didn't. I slam Bush and the republicans all the time on fiscal matters.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao @ whottt's complete flip-flop on this issue.

Kerryesque.

[whottt]

:lmao @ whottt's complete flip-flop on this issue.

Kerryesque.



Complete Flip Flop, in what way?

[ChumpDumper]

It's not a big deal.

No, it's a huge deal.

[whottt]

in the world of politics, I'm sure you're right. In my book it's not as damaging.


Well hey...I know a couple of retards that are the sweetest and most honest people you'll ever meet.

Let's run them...

[whottt]

It's not a big deal.

No, it's a huge deal.


Having questionable ethics = not a huge deal

Being stupid = a huge deal

[2centsworth]

Well hey...I know a couple of retards that are the sweetest and most honest people you'll ever meet.

Let's run them...
noted.

[clambake]

He's not stupid, he's black. Face your fears Whottt.

[ChumpDumper]

Your opinion has been noted, Mr. Kerry. Now follow his lead and lower your profile before you make things worse.

[whottt]

Why do people think America is better off being lead by a virtuous moron than someone who actually knows how to run the world's largest economy...

What, do you people hate eating or something?

I don't.

[gtownspur]

:lmao @ whottt's complete flip-flop on this issue.

Kerryesque.


I agree.

One day he says you're a "cockface", the other he goes soft an calls you an "asshole".

It's like no one can come to a conclusion on how pathetic you are.

[ChumpDumper]

Why do people think America is better off being lead by a virtuous moron than someone who actually knows how to run the world's largest economy...

What, do you people hate eating or something?

I don't.:lmao @ whottt's thinking the president runs the economy.

[ChumpDumper]

I agree.Aw, another poster who holds a grudge after being owned.

I admit there's alot of you bitter twats out there. Not my problem.

[gtownspur]

Aw, another poster who holds a grudge after being owned.

I admit there's alot of you bitter twats out there. Not my problem.



Yeah, if no one dry humps you like Pixel and clambake, they all have grudges. How childish of you to throw such tactic while calling everyone that same thing.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, if no one dry humps you like Pixel and clambake, they all have grudges. How childish of you to throw such tactic while calling everyone that same thing.Want a chance to rewrite that in Enlgish?

It's ok, gtown -- you're just one of many. I can live with idiots hating me.

[clambake]

Good idea G. Removed the racecard.

[gtownspur]

Good idea G. Removed the racecard.

It's called quick post. Tard!

[clambake]

At least someones not afraid to express their hate for blacks.

[gtownspur]

Want a chance to rewrite that in Enlgish?

It's ok, gtown -- you're just one of many. I can live with idiots hating me.

Lovely cut and paste quip. This is a forum, not an academic setting. Run it through spell check if you want to beat off to it.

[gtownspur]

At least someone(')s not afraid to express their hate for blacks.


Correction.

I tolerate anybody. Just not racebaiters individuals who are full of it.

[clambake]

I liked you better with your black hate card. You should never erase your true feelings. I was praising your admission.

[gtownspur]

I'm sorry chump.

I'll let you have the last word.

It's amazing you all can circle jerk and type at the same time.

[gtownspur]

I liked you better with your black hate card. You should never erase your true feelings. I was praising your admission.


Here it is. Back to the good ole days of you severely despising me and wishing your molars were caked with Chumpspice.


http://www.rightwingnews.com/graphics/racecard.gif

[whottt]

:lmao @ whottt's thinking the president runs the economy.

I'll remember you said that the next time people say Iraq is about Oil...I know I can count on your support :tu

[ChumpDumper]

I'll remember you said that the next time people say Iraq is about Oil...I know I can count on your support :tuAre you saying it had nothing to do with oil?

[gtownspur]

Are you saying it had nothing to do with oil?

Yes, it was for higher oil prices.

Your logic is unmatched.

[clambake]

Bush already admitted it was oil.

[ChumpDumper]

no.You're too stupid to realize it, but I'm not talking to you.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, it was for higher oil prices.

Your logic is unmatched.You can edit it all you want, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to a guy who used to be able to make an argument.

[ChumpDumper]

Bush already admitted it was oil.Selective amnesia on the part of several of our posters. There were certainly other factors.

[whottt]

The President can control the economy.


Smartest thing you've ever said :tu


Oh wait...it was only an accident that Chump's dick fell out of your mouth...my bad.

As you were.

[clambake]

That's what i hear. Sadly, saying them over and over hasn't made them real.

[clambake]

Black hate and dick fetish. Your plate is full whott.

[whottt]

*slurp*.


Careful...Chump has that, "fucking teeth" vibe going. In fact I think you probably drew blood, inspite of your best intentions...

[whottt]

Black hate and dick fetish. Your plate is full whott.


You do realize that the only one bringing up race in this entire thread is you, right?


You are also the only one shamelessly sucking dick...but that's the norm for you.


BTW, your hatred of whites exceeds the racism of anyone else on this entire board.

[ChumpDumper]

Whottt and gtown's regressing to their respective penis obsessions are a sure sign they've surrendered any real discussion.

[clambake]

Is dick your favorite hobby? Oops, I mean white dick?

[whottt]

Whottt and gtown's regressing to their respective penis obsessions are a sure sign they've surrendered any real discussion.


Hey...I was only here to judge. Owning your ass in the process wasn't in my plans...althought it was fun nontheless.

[ChumpDumper]

I leave you to keep talking about dicks.

I know you can't help it. You just can't stop thinking about dicks. You might want to explore why that is.

[whottt]

*suckle*

[whottt]

I leave you to keep talking about dicks.

I know you can't help it. You just can't stop thinking about dicks. You might want to explore why that is.



Could be because I'm arguing with two of them...just a thought.

[ChumpDumper]

Hey...I was only here to judge. Owning your ass in the process wasn't in my plans...althought it was fun nontheless.You got owned easily, then tried to do a 180 on your original point, then changed the subject to your favorite -- penises.

Good luck with the penises.

[clambake]

Is it possible the army turned you down because you couldn't obey the don't ask, don't tell policy. If so, then good for you. Life is short, embrace your desires.

[whottt]

:lmao @ you thinking the President controls the economy

seconds later...



Bush already admitted it was about oil



Are you saying it had nothing to do with oil?


You know...if I wasn't so damn smart...I'd think I was the stupid one.

[clambake]

Ohhh, screw all that. Tell me more about dicks.

[whottt]

BTW...that's not the funniest thing in this thread...

The aboslute funniest thing was Chump thinking billionaires are day traders.

I can honestly say that was the first time I've ever felt pity for Chump.

[whottt]

Ohhh, screw all that. Tell me more about dicks.


Don't you get enough of them as it is? Suckboy?

[clambake]

Sounds like whott is done.

[whottt]

Awww you two...mad and fucking owned is no way to leave a thread.

[clambake]

I leave when your dick fantasies rears it's ugly head. No pun intended.

[whottt]

I leave when your dick fantasies rears it's ugly head. No pun intended.

Hey you don't have to explain you're a capitulator to me...it's apparent in every post you make. You want to capitulate the war, you want to capitulate any semblance of equality without distortion through a racial lens...


You root for a team that capitulated a won title....I mean damn.

You're an extremely stupid dude...seriously.




And BTW, you'll be getting nothing but homosmack from me in the forseeable future...

The next time you respond to me it'll be because you obviously are in the mood for it. Think long and hard before you open your mouth to type next time.

[clambake]

One more question before I leave. (I'll check for your answer in the morning)

Now that Bush is on the road sucking some latin dick, I was wondering. Does that make you jealous?

[whottt]

And BTW, you'll be getting nothing but homosmack from me in the forseeable future...

The next time you respond to me it'll be because you obviously are in the mood for it. Think long and hard before you open your mouth to type next time.


Instant response:





One more question before I leave. (I'll check for your answer in the morning)

Now that Bush is on the road sucking some latin dick, I was wondering. Does that make you jealous?


:lol



Seriously...you should consider marketing yourself.

[Clandestino]

obama is full of shit... you guys must've been bored as hell to argue with chump for 10 pages on the subject..

and a broker wouldn't invest in highly speculative companies if the guy only gave him a couple hundred thousand. obama had to have told him to do it.

[clambake]

Yes, it was a strategic effort to lose money.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao We're all lawyers AND financial planners around here, aren't we?

And four-star generals. Almost forgot that one.

[Clandestino]

:lmao We're all lawyers AND financial planners around here, aren't we?

And four-star generals. Almost forgot that one.

funny you say that, bc yes, i hold my series 7 and 66 licenses. which licenses do you hold again?

[Clandestino]

i'm sure you have very little based on the shit you say... so, yes, thank god your money isn't with me.