Cheney: Congress undermining U.S. troops

[George Gervin's Afro]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070312/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq_18



WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney challenged lawmakers Monday to prove their support for U.S. troops and the war on terrorism by approving the Bush administration's requests for financing military action in Iraq and Afghanistan.


"When members of Congress pursue an anti-war strategy that's been called 'slow bleeding,' they are not supporting the troops, they are undermining them," Cheney said in a speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

Cheney spoke at the start of a week in which the House plans to begin work on legislation providing nearly $100 billion for the rest of this year's costs of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, President Bush's full request for funds.

"Anyone can say they support the troops and we should take them at their word, but the proof will come when it's time to provide the money," Cheney said.

House Democratic leaders want to add provisions to the measure requiring the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops by the end of August 2008 and possibly by the end of 2007. Some anti-war Democrats prefer limiting the funds so the administration would essentially be forced to remove U.S. forces, a strategy that party leaders have abandoned.

"We expect the House and Senate to meet the needs of our military and the generals leading the troops in battle on time and in full measure," Cheney said, accusing some legislators of giving lip service to proclamations of support for U.S. soldiers.

"When members speak not of victory but of time limits, deadlines and other arbitrary measures, they are telling the enemy simply to watch the clock and wait us out," he said


Is anyone else as tired as I am with Dick Cheney. He needs to shut the phuck up. He has unsuccessfully tried to turn our miltary and country against Democrats for the past few years and I for one am tired of him opening his mouth. Time for you fade away into history Dick..January of 2009 cannot come soon enough you evil man.


On a side note I am not wishing any harm against 5 deferrment Dick. Well maybe a couple of sleepless nights because of his whoring of the unecessary war.. other than that no harm..

[Yonivore]

I think he's a breath of fresh air in American politics. Go fuck yourself.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think he's a breath of fresh air in American politics. Go fuck yourself.


Thankfully America rejected his is idea of patriotism. :lol Dick will go down as one of the most reviled VP's in history. One who tried to politicize the military and attack anyone who had the balls to call him on his rhetoric. Frankly does anyone listen to him anymore? Besides those of us who relish the thought that he is pretty much ignored by the majority of this country. :toast

[MannyIsGod]

I think he's a breath of fresh air in American politics. Go fuck yourself.:lmao

[boutons_]

dickhead as undermined 3200 US military into graves, 25000 other US military bodies and minds maimed, all their lives wasted for absolutely nothing except dubya's re-election. And counting ...

YV, go fuck dickhead.

[Yonivore]

Thankfully America rejected his is idea of patriotism. :lol Dick will go down as one of the most reviled VP's in history. One who tried to politicize the military and attack anyone who had the balls to call him on his rhetoric. Frankly does anyone listen to him anymore? Besides those of us who relish the thought that he is pretty much ignored by the majority of this country. :toast
I am constantly amused by those who would ascribe all things evil to a man to whom no one listens.

Vice President Cheney is only reviled by those whom he has rhetorically cut off at the knees...andy their sycophants.

[boutons_]

dickhead is a classic con man, with the articulation and gravitas to sound "con"vincing, but in his role as Evil Puppetmaster/Wizard of Oz behind the curtain, his con game of selling Iraq by exploiting the US's naive trust in the WH after 9/11 and bullying/sliming dissidents has produced disastrous, murderous results with no end in sight.

His con game is no longer believed, except by people who $$gain from continuing to suck his infected dick.

The corrupt govt contracting ethos he got rich from is epitomized by Halliburtion that has announced that it is moving its HQ to Dubai, to escape $Bs in US taxes.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm tired of Cheney. That said, he's got a point. The Vietnamese wrote the book on how to 'defeat America', all the insurgents are doing is following the same script (and sitting back and letting the American media do all the work).

Sad, really.

[boutons_]

"We expect the House and Senate to meet the needs of our military"

dickhead and rummy already fucked over the military in 2003 by going in cheap, with not enough trooops and armor, then compounded that failure by appointing Bremer, non-experienced Repug shill, as CPA administrator who fucked up Iraq so badly the military can't unfuck it.

dickhead made this bed, but the military are bleeding to death in it.

The blame, the murderous GUILT, for this fuckup is 100% with dichkhead/rummy/dubya/condi/AEI/PNAC/etc,

NOT with the US citizenry,

NOT with the Congress (dickead had a rubberstamp Congress for 6 years and still couldn't KICK ASS in IRaq),

NOT with the US media.

He smart enough to know he and his legacy are totally fucked so, dickhead is laying the groundwork, speech by speech, Sunday morning by Sunday morning, for his inevitable of shifting of blame for "losing Iraq" from himself to any convenient scapegoat.

Meanwhile al-Qaida and Taleban are gradually taking back Afghanistan and getting stronger and stronger in the Paki FATAs.

[Bandit2981]

I'm tired of Cheney. That said, he's got a point. The Vietnamese wrote the book on how to 'defeat America', all the insurgents are doing is following the same script (and sitting back and letting the American media do all the work).

Sad, really.
No, what's sad is you thinking if the media weren't covering the war, all the car bombs would stop and the Iraqis would start throwing flowers at us instead of rocket grenades.

[Yonivore]

No, what's sad is you thinking if the media weren't covering the war, all the car bombs would stop and the Iraqis would start throwing flowers at us instead of rocket grenades.
If the media weren't covering the war, there'd be no reason for the car bombs.

What military purpose is served by killing innocent civilians except for that if it gets aired, it propagandizes for your side and terrorizes the opposition.

[clambake]

Random explosions worked in Saigon. Media or not, they would still use the tactic. Just like VN, the enemy within.

[nkdlunch]

If the media weren't covering the war, there'd be no reason for the car bombs.

What military purpose is served by killing innocent civilians except for that if it gets aired, it propagandizes for your side and terrorizes the opposition.

If the media weren't covering the war, Bush would not have started it.

[Trainwreck2100]

I always will respect a guy that shot somebody in the face.

[exstatic]

If Dick Cheney told me that something I was doing was wrong, I'd take great comfort that not only was it probably right, it was probably morally right, too.

[Yonivore]

If Dick Cheney told me that something I was doing was wrong, I'd take great comfort that not only was it probably right, it was probably morally right, too.
Nice compass.

[boutons_]

"If the media weren't covering the war, there'd be no reason for the car bombs."

You aren't this stupid, so you are just fuckin lying.

Iraq, and the world, doesn't revolve around the US military or the US media.

Iraq is Sunni vs Shiite, ethnic cleansing, pure and simple.

The US military are inconsequential by-standers, spilling their blood for nothing.

[George Gervin's Afro]

If Dick Cheney told me that something I was doing was wrong, I'd take great comfort that not only was it probably right, it was probably morally right, too.


Nice :oink

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No, what's sad is you thinking if the media weren't covering the war, all the car bombs would stop and the Iraqis would start throwing flowers at us instead of rocket grenades.

In Vietnam's museum for the Vietnam War, they have a huge exhibit that is basically a shrine to the American media, saying without them the Vietcong could not have won the war.

At this rate, some day in Ramadi or Baghdad or Sadr City or wherever there's going to be a shrine to CNN, Dan Rather, etc.

[boutons_]

The VC didn't win. The US public, after 50K dead and 250K injured, with no let up in sight, decided to quit.

Typical Aggie, believe the spin from the Repugs, or from the VC, just believe the spin.

Aggie prefers that the WH wage their bullshit war for oil in total secrecy, with the American people totally uninformed. How very American.

Even with the war in total secrecy, Iraq would be the same lost shit hole today, because the Repugs were too fucking stupid and incompetent to run the war successfully.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The VC didn't win. The US public, after 50K dead and 250K injured, with no let up in sight, decided to quit.

Typical Aggie, believe the spin from the Repugs, or from the VC, just believe the spin.

Read a history book, dumbfuck.


Aggie prefers that the WH wage their bullshit war for oil in total secrecy, with the American people totally uninformed. How very American.

:lol Do you even believe what you write? Waging a war for oil in total secrecy? And just where is this secret war? :lmao


Even with the war in total secrecy, Iraq would be the same lost shit hole today, because the Repugs were too fucking stupid and incompetent to run the war successfully.

It's because our troops have about a million fucking rules of engagement thanks to pussies like you that get upset if take anyone out before they start shooting at us. You either fight a war to win, accept collateral damage will occur, and do what needs to be done, or you fucking pussy foot around everything like we have to thanks to the candy ass liberals in this country and more troops die because of it.

Secret wars :lol I've gotta go now boutons, the WH called, it's my turn to relieve the pilot flying the black helicopter in orbit over your house.

[Purple & Gold]

So now repubs want to end freedom of the press? What else is next? They already hate freedom of speech.

[SRJ]

When radical Islamists bring this country to its knees - and that's going to happen because of the "appeasement first, appeasement only" approached preached by the liberals - none of the anti-Bush crowd will be spared by the enemy. Julia Roberts, the Dixie Chicks, Ward Churchill, George Clooney, Dennis Kucinich, Alec Baldwin, Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry - all of them will be nuked and/or beheaded along with the NeoCons.

I only hope I die of natural causes before that day comes to pass. Saying "I told you so" won't bring me any comfort on the day America dies.

[George Gervin's Afro]

When radical Islamists bring this country to its knees - and that's going to happen because of the "appeasement first, appeasement only" approached preached by the liberals - none of the anti-Bush crowd will be spared by the enemy. Julia Roberts, the Dixie Chicks, Ward Churchill, George Clooney, Dennis Kucinich, Alec Baldwin, Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry - all of them will be nuked and/or beheaded along with the NeoCons.

I only hope I die of natural causes before that day comes to pass. Saying "I told you so" won't bring me any comfort on the day America dies.

So how is the Iraq war going to stop this? With estimates of of Al-Qaeda in Iraq around the 2% range what about the other 98%? So if I don't like the Iraq war can I still want to kill AL-Qaeda? You sound so sure so please let us in on your source. Or is this just a typical GOP talking point rant?

[Yonivore]

When radical Islamists bring this country to its knees - and that's going to happen because of the "appeasement first, appeasement only" approached preached by the liberals - none of the anti-Bush crowd will be spared by the enemy. Julia Roberts, the Dixie Chicks, Ward Churchill, George Clooney, Dennis Kucinich, Alec Baldwin, Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry - all of them will be nuked and/or beheaded along with the NeoCons.
No, I predict they will all convert and start shreiking "Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!"

[Yonivore]

So how is the Iraq war going to stop this? With estimates of of Al-Qaeda in Iraq around the 2% range what about the other 98%? So if I don't like the Iraq war can I still want to kill AL-Qaeda? You sound so sure so please let us in on your source. Or is this just a typical GOP talking point rant?
Where did you get your statistics, another Lancet study?

And, judging from the correspondence between Zawahiri and Zarqawi (before he tried to catch that JDAM with his bare hands), Iraq is the decisive battle for them as well.

[Richard Cranium]

Dick Cheney is a real dickhead. I'm not surprised idiots like yonivore fall for his bullshit.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Where did you get your statistics, another Lancet study?

And, judging from the correspondence between Zawahiri and Zarqawi (before he tried to catch that JDAM with his bare hands), Iraq is the decisive battle for them as well.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1003/p03s03-woiq.html?s=widep


October, 2006


The total number of foreign fighters in Iraq is between 800 and 2,000, according to estimates by the Brookings Institution, a think tank in Washington. In contrast, the total strength of the insurgency is more than 20,000 people, according to Brookings. That means the vast majority of its fighters come from Iraq itself.

"In proportion to the whole insurgency, [the percentage of foreign fighters] is very small," says Aidan Kirby, a terrorism expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).


So if I am hearing you correctly you are now relying on a terrorist's word as truth. Decisive battle for who/what? The most decisive battle for IRAQ? Probably.

If we kill these 2,000 folks the war on terror will be won? Can we assume that not all of these foreign fighters are al-qaeda?

I guess you want everyone to believe that if Iraq becomes a beacon of democracy that AL-Qaeda will just throw thier hands up and give in. They are taking pot shots at us meanwhile winning the pr battle and increasing thier ranks..

[Yonivore]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1003/p03s03-woiq.html?s=widep


October, 2006




So if I am hearing you correctly you are now relying on a terrorist's word as truth. Decisive battle for who/what? The most decisive battle for IRAQ? Probably.

If we kill these 2,000 folks the war on terror will be won? Can we assume that not all of these foreign fighters are al-qaeda?

I guess you want everyone to believe that if Iraq becomes a beacon of democracy that AL-Qaeda will just throw thier hands up and give in. They are taking pot shots at us meanwhile winning the pr battle and increasing thier ranks..
Doesn't Muqtada Al Sadr's army comprise approximately 16,000 of that 20,000 count insurgency force? Where are they now? And, didn't someone say he'd be back in a week or so -- several weeks ago -- that he was just visiting Iran?

And, I read a recent estimate that as many as 14,000 insurgents and al Qadans may currently be in the custody of coalition and Iraqi forces.

Plus, you don't explain Zawahiri's -- non-propaganda -- letter to Zarqawi in which he proclaims the Iraq battle to be the decisive battle for their movement.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Doesn't Muqtada Al Sadr's army comprise approximately 16,000 of that 20,000 count insurgency force? Where are they now? And, didn't someone say he'd be back in a week or so -- several weeks ago -- that he was just visiting Iran?

And, I read a recent estimate that as many as 14,000 insurgents and al Qadans may currently be in the custody of coalition and Iraqi forces.

Plus, you don't explain Zawahiri's -- non-propaganda -- letter to Zarqawi in which he proclaims the Iraq battle to be the decisive battle for their movement.


Well I am not going to pretendto know what Zawahiri's motives or intent was when he wrote his letter. However if I were to buy your argument that this was the 'decisive' battle then I could assume that Al-Qaeda will surrender and stop terrorist activties if they were to fail in Iraq. Does this make any logical sense Yoni? I don't think for one minute this would be the case.

[Yonivore]

Well I am not going to pretendto know what Zawahiri's motives or intent was when he wrote his letter. However if I were to buy your argument that this was the 'decisive' battle then I could assume that Al-Qaeda will surrender and stop terrorist activties if they were to fail in Iraq. Does this make any logical sense Yoni? I don't think for one minute this would be the case.
I don't know, we'll see.

One thing's for sure. Saddam, Uday, and Qusay Hussein won't be congratulating al Qaeda in their paper and sending $25,000 checks to the "Martyrs'" families. Nor will they be placing those little bottles of shampoo and conditioner on the bathroom vanities of the Abu Nidal and Abu Abass terrorist organizations. Those days are surely over.

Nor will they be seeking to acquire large quantities of yellowcake uranium from Africa.

[clambake]

They're all in Baghdad. (pay no attention to that afghan rug, it's been cleaned)

Every terraist left has joined the fight in Iraq. (pack up Homeland security, you are no longer needed)

Iran and Syria will soon be a christain haven and Hezbollah will marry Jewish women.

This is what victory means in Iraq. This will be the only win.

[clambake]

The yellowcake was Betty Crocker.

[boutons_]

So Aggie is blaming the dickhead's failure in Iraq on "rules of engagement" that prevent the US military from "kicking ass" ??

Did the US citizens, Congress, or media define these rules of engagement?

I haven't heard Petraeus or anybody other top brass say they could kick ass and win in Iraq if there weren't any rule of engagement. Link?

The "secret Iraq war for oil", a war NEVER talked about in the press, is not the one we have now, but the one you, yoni, and clanny want. ie, secret Iraq war with no discussion in the US press, no polls of US citizens, trusting dickhead and rummy to fuckup without anybody knowing about it.

[SRJ]

So how is the Iraq war going to stop this? With estimates of of Al-Qaeda in Iraq around the 2% range what about the other 98%? So if I don't like the Iraq war can I still want to kill AL-Qaeda? You sound so sure so please let us in on your source. Or is this just a typical GOP talking point rant?

I'll answer the last question first - this ain't the GOP talking. I am a conservative, but I have not been satisfied with the GOP in recent years. Bush is not addressing the border situation in any satisfactory way and he throws our tax money like any Democrat would.

As for "my source", that's hilarious. I'm only expressing an opinion. I'm just reading the trends.

The war in Iraq has already accomplished something wonderful - Saddam Hussein is ousted and dead. He was a murderous bastard and the world is a better place with fewer tyrants.

Saddam's Iraq was dealing with al-Qaeda. Two weeks before 9/11, Saddam placed his military forces on its highest state of alert since Gulf War I. He also retreated into his network of bunkers and moved his wives out of their Baghdad estate. According to London's Daily Telegraph, Hussein had been funding al-Qaeda "with funding, logistical backup and advanced weapons training." This link between Iraq and al-Qaeda is mentioned on pp. 253-54 of the book Everything You Know Is Wrong as part of an article entitled "September 11, 2001: No Surprise" by Russ Kick.

You don't have to like the Iraq war, but in a world with terrorist groups like Hezbollah and al-Qaeda, with hostile nations like Iran and North Korea, with dirty bombs and suitcase nukes, we are entering an unfortunate era of world history - one where our choices range from bad to worse. A proactive strategy will cost us fewer lives than a reactive strategy will.

But if you want to pretend the world is a nice and pleasant place and George Bush is the only one screwing things up, go ahead.

[George Gervin's Afro]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CHENEY_TROOPS?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=TOP_STORIES&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT



MANALAPAN, Fla. (AP) -- Vice President Dick Cheney on Saturday accused the Democrat-led House of not supporting troops in Iraq and of sending a message to terrorists that America will retreat in the face danger.

"They're not supporting the troops. They're undermining them," Cheney told a gathering of the Republican Jewish Coalition at the oceanside Ritz-Carlton hotel in Manalapan, Fla., about 60 miles north of Miami.

On Friday, the House voted to clamp a cutoff deadline on the Iraq war, agreeing by a thin margin to pull combat troops out by next year.

The $124 billion House legislation would pay for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan this year but would require that combat troops come home from Iraq before September 2008 - or earlier if the Iraqi government does not meet certain requirements.

Cheney called it a myth that "one can support the troops without giving them the tools and reinforcements they need to carry out their mission."

President Bush has threatened to veto the legislation. Cheney said Bush will not withdraw troops before there is stability in Iraq.

"The American people have lost faith in the president's conduct of this war," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said after the passage. A message seeking comment was left with Pelosi's office Saturday.



Dick's at it AGAIN... I suppose Dick thinks sending the troops into an unecessary war without the proper equipment is a great way of 'supporting' the troops. Of course Rummy said it himself..you go with the military you have and not the one you want.. Hey Dick I guess you like our boys in the middle of civil war... nice support..Most of America had had enough with this war that had nothing to do with terrorism. You may want more GIs to die but some of us don't think this unecessary war is worth 1 more dead GI... I hope you to hell Dick I really do..

[xrayzebra]

The Vietnamese wrote the book on how to 'defeat America', all the insurgents are doing is following the same script (and sitting back and letting the American media do all the work).

Sad, really.

And people like GGA, boutons and others accept the media
as the only true reports of the war in Iraq.


The VC didn't win. The US public, after 50K dead and 250K injured, with no let up in sight, decided to quit.

Typical Aggie, believe the spin from the Repugs, or from the VC, just believe the spin.

Aggie prefers that the WH wage their bullshit war for oil in total secrecy, with the American people totally uninformed. How very American.

Even with the war in total secrecy, Iraq would be the same lost shit hole today, because the Repugs were too fucking stupid and incompetent to run the war successfully.

boutons illustrates this completely, he believing the media
only reports the truth, by his statement: "The US public...
decided to quit" in VN. No the public didn't decide, a
bunch of dimm-o-craps decided to pull troops out of VN
and let a country go down the drain. And then watch
over a million die and another country go under by their
brilliant, it wont happen attitude. The media in VN kept
reporting we were losing, when in all reality we were
winning and inflicted a defeat on the NVN. And now
we have history repeating itself, with the same players.


VN, like Iraq, is a war that was won, but we lost in VN
internally in the US and will lose Iraq the same way.
Again, we will watch a national lose a good portion of its
people through a bloodbath of terrorism like we have
never witnessed. Except this time, our own people will
feel the sword. We will know car bombs, random killings
and terror in schools and other public places just like
in the ME.

So you folks go right ahead and blame Bush and Chenney
for all the troubles of the world, forget who started the
real war and pat yourself on the back for Pelosi and Reid
and the other dimm-o-craps for stopping funding and
setting deadlines and sit back and enjoy the short respite
you will enjoy before you start sleep under you beds.

[xrayzebra]

Does this sound familiar.



Democrats Defend Plan for Iraq Pullout
Mar 24 08:34 PM US/Eastern
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Democrats' plan to bring U.S. troops home from Iraq next year responds to voters' demand for change, New Hampshire Rep. Paul Hodes said Saturday.

Hodes and other House Democrats on Friday pushed through a rebuke of President Bush and the war in Iraq. Bush promised a veto of the spending bill, which demands combat operations end before September 2008—and perhaps earlier.

"With our vote this week, we're helping our troops, protecting our veterans, and fighting to end the waste, fraud and abuse," said Hodes, delivering the Democrats' weekly radio address. "After four years of a failed policy, Democrats are insisting on a new direction in Iraq and a real plan that holds the Iraqi people accountable for their own country."
Sure We Are, Helping everyone, especially the Terrorist who will know when to come out of hiding again, right after we leave. Also give them a chance to build up arms and forces to continue their little take over and re-educate the populace. Right!

Hodes, elected in November, was part of the Democratic takeover of both chambers of Congress. He has opposed the war and any efforts to escalate it.

"Last November, people in New Hampshire and across the country voted for change. They voted for a new Congress that would stop acting as a rubber stamp for this president and begin confronting the problems and challenges facing our nation," Hodes said.



On Saturday, he emphasized the Iraqis must meet the benchmarks Bush proposed in January.

"As we enter the fifth year of the war, Iraq remains in chaos and the Iraqi government has failed to stand up and take ownership of the country."

The Senate is expected to take up legislation as early as Monday.


Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Same garbage, different day.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Does this sound familiar.



Democrats Defend Plan for Iraq Pullout
Mar 24 08:34 PM US/Eastern
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Democrats' plan to bring U.S. troops home from Iraq next year responds to voters' demand for change, New Hampshire Rep. Paul Hodes said Saturday.

Hodes and other House Democrats on Friday pushed through a rebuke of President Bush and the war in Iraq. Bush promised a veto of the spending bill, which demands combat operations end before September 2008—and perhaps earlier.

"With our vote this week, we're helping our troops, protecting our veterans, and fighting to end the waste, fraud and abuse," said Hodes, delivering the Democrats' weekly radio address. "After four years of a failed policy, Democrats are insisting on a new direction in Iraq and a real plan that holds the Iraqi people accountable for their own country."
Sure We Are, Helping everyone, especially the Terrorist who will know when to come out of hiding again, right after we leave. Also give them a chance to build up arms and forces to continue their little take over and re-educate the populace. Right!

Hodes, elected in November, was part of the Democratic takeover of both chambers of Congress. He has opposed the war and any efforts to escalate it.

"Last November, people in New Hampshire and across the country voted for change. They voted for a new Congress that would stop acting as a rubber stamp for this president and begin confronting the problems and challenges facing our nation," Hodes said.



On Saturday, he emphasized the Iraqis must meet the benchmarks Bush proposed in January.

"As we enter the fifth year of the war, Iraq remains in chaos and the Iraqi government has failed to stand up and take ownership of the country."

The Senate is expected to take up legislation as early as Monday.


Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Same garbage, different day.




Sure We Are, Helping everyone, especially the Terrorist who will know when to come out of hiding again, right after we leave. Also give them a chance to build up arms and forces to continue their little take over and re-educate the populace. Right!

speaking of the same garbage but different day.. :lol


Where are they hiding now Ray? I thought they were fighting us in raq?

What is truly and ironic about this whole Iraq mess is that the same people who have been wrong from the beginning are still out in public making baseless claims and trying to taint those who disagree with them... Didn't Dick say we would be greeted as liberators? Oh but Ray believes every word he says... Of course Colin Powell tol Bush if you break Iraq you will own it...prophetic indeed

They don't need us out of Iraq to build up arms ray.. They are regrouping around the world while we are bogged down in a liberation experiment gone awry...


Let's assume we tell the Iraqi's you have 18 months to get your house in order then we will begin to pull our forces out. What if the govt decides it is now or never to make the concesions we need to succeed when the US leaves? What if the ultimatum creates an even greater sense of urgency with the Iraqi military? WOuldn't these be good things? Or do we just 'stay the course' and baby sit Iraq to the tune of 3,000 more dead plus 20,000 injured?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

cheney deserves to have his orbital socket fucked by a rabid pornstar on viagra

[xrayzebra]

What is truly and ironic about this whole Iraq mess is that the same people who have been wrong from the beginning are still out in public making baseless claims and trying to taint those who disagree with them...

They don't need us out of Iraq to build up arms ray.. They are regrouping around the world while we are bogged down in a liberation experiment gone awry...

Who is attempting to taint who?

And why haven't they attempted to do more terrorist
attacks in the West? How about who has who tied down
and using all their resources. Who is killing civilians and
using children as suicide bombers. Hmmmmmm?

[boutons_]

Poor dickhead, the oilco's must be really pressuring him to "win" the oil.

What's really undermining the military is that it's too small to fight a two-country war, so solidiers are forced to serve longer tours, to go back multiple times, destroying morale because NO PROGRESS is seen. Same old shit, ever worse shit, week after week, for 6 years.

All the while the WH refuses to spend the many $Bs to provide sufficient equipment, new and refurbished, to keep the troops fully equipped and protected.

ie, the WH/PNAC/AEI/neo-cunts decision to grab the Iraqi oil on the cheap compounded by their incompetence, has truly undermined the US military, NOT the Congress.

So, dickhead, you and dubya have been judged guilty (of lying and incompetence and dereliction of duty) by the American people and were fired last November. The Congress is expressing the will of the majority US citizenry, if you remember such a quaint notion, to stop the war in Iraq. The margin against the war is MUCH bigger than the tiny margins which put you murderous, thieving motherfuckers in office.

[spurster]

It's just amazing that some people will believe anything from their party's leaders. Almost every day there is a horrific bombing in Iraq. If this sort of thing happened yearly in the US, there would be hell to pay for whoever's in power. It's been 4 years of this, and there is no sign of any solution. I and most Americans do not want 4+ more years of this idiocy.

[ChumpDumper]

And why haven't they attempted to do more terrorist
attacks in the West?Madrid and London ring any bells? Considering the attacks in other parts of the world since then as well -- Tunisia, Bali, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Turkey -- it's pretty apparent we haven't slowed them down all that much. That's because we have done and -- thanks to the invasion of Iraq -- will do nothing about the real home of Al Qaeda these days.

Mission Accomplished.

[exstatic]

That's because we have done and -- thanks to the invasion of Iraq -- will do nothing about the real home of Al Qaeda these days.

West ern Pak i stan

[sabar]

And people like GGA, boutons and others accept the media
as the only true reports of the war in Iraq.



boutons illustrates this completely, he believing the media
only reports the truth, by his statement: "The US public...
decided to quit" in VN. No the public didn't decide, a
bunch of dimm-o-craps decided to pull troops out of VN
and let a country go down the drain. And then watch
over a million die and another country go under by their
brilliant, it wont happen attitude. The media in VN kept
reporting we were losing, when in all reality we were
winning and inflicted a defeat on the NVN. And now
we have history repeating itself, with the same players.


VN, like Iraq, is a war that was won, but we lost in VN
internally in the US and will lose Iraq the same way.
Again, we will watch a national lose a good portion of its
people through a bloodbath of terrorism like we have
never witnessed. Except this time, our own people will
feel the sword. We will know car bombs, random killings
and terror in schools and other public places just like
in the ME.

So you folks go right ahead and blame Bush and Chenney
for all the troubles of the world, forget who started the
real war and pat yourself on the back for Pelosi and Reid
and the other dimm-o-craps for stopping funding and
setting deadlines and sit back and enjoy the short respite
you will enjoy before you start sleep under you beds.Vietnam was a 100% anti-american ideology.
The same country born from a revolution and colonization ends up being an advocate for colonization and anti-revolutionary.
We had no place there, whether we were winning or losing.

We aren't fighting for what is right, we are fighting for our self-interests.
Terrorism has replaced communism as our fear in the modern age. I'm sure 200 years down the road that history will be ashamed of what we are doing. Winners write history and that's our only good reason to stay now.

We don't care about spreading democracy.

If we did then watch out Cuba, china, North Korea, Vietnam, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the other 41 monarchies, 2 communist states, and countless totalitarian states. We might as well go to war with the world.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Vietnam was a 100% anti-american ideology.
The same country born from a revolution and colonization ends up being an advocate for colonization and anti-revolutionary.
We had no place there, whether we were winning or losing.

We aren't fighting for what is right, we are fighting for our self-interests.
Terrorism has replaced communism as our fear in the modern age. I'm sure 200 years down the road that history will be ashamed of what we are doing. Winners write history and that's our only good reason to stay now.

We don't care about spreading democracy.

If we did then watch out Cuba, china, North Korea, Vietnam, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the other 41 monarchies, 2 communist states, and countless totalitarian states. We might as well go to war with the world.


Why do you hate America? Prepare for the apologist's attacks..

[xrayzebra]

Vietnam was a 100% anti-american ideology.
The same country born from a revolution and colonization ends up being an advocate for colonization and anti-revolutionary.
We had no place there, whether we were winning or losing.

We aren't fighting for what is right, we are fighting for our self-interests.
Terrorism has replaced communism as our fear in the modern age. I'm sure 200 years down the road that history will be ashamed of what we are doing. Winners write history and that's our only good reason to stay now.

We don't care about spreading democracy.

If we did then watch out Cuba, china, North Korea, Vietnam, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the other 41 monarchies, 2 communist states, and countless totalitarian states. We might as well go to war with the world.

Hey twerp, what is so wrong for fighting for "own self
interest"? What better reason to fight.

Of course you or I will never know what people will write
of history or even if our country will exist in 200 years.

But, I really could care less. I worry about now and the
short future, like my kids and grand kids. And my own
self-interest. And have no qualms about saying so. If
I help some other folks out, so much the better. I love
the fact that folks like you have no qualms about ignoring
that fact.

We did not have a mind to make VN a colony of the
United States, nor do we plan on having Iraq as a
colony of the U.S. We have never colonized any country,
but I am sure according you your recollection of history
we are nothing but exploiters of other countries. Maybe,
you should use your head for something other than
a hat rack and thing about the fact we have never
kept any territory won thru warfare.


Oh, for your information, we are involved in a world wide
war at this time. But you like most on this forum do
not recognize that fact. We are fighting the terrorist in
many countries, maybe not openly, but troops are in
several countries and operations are on going in
several parts of the world. Not just Iraq and Afghanistan.
But how would you know. You live in your own little
world.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Hey twerp, what is so wrong for fighting for "own self
interest"? What better reason to fight.

Of course you or I will never know what people will write
of history or even if our country will exist in 200 years.

But, I really could care less. I worry about now and the
short future, like my kids and grand kids. And my own
self-interest. And have no qualms about saying so. If
I help some other folks out, so much the better. I love
the fact that folks like you have no qualms about ignoring
that fact.

We did not have a mind to make VN a colony of the
United States, nor do we plan on having Iraq as a
colony of the U.S. We have never colonized any country,
but I am sure according you your recollection of history
we are nothing but exploiters of other countries. Maybe,
you should use your head for something other than
a hat rack and thing about the fact we have never
kept any territory won thru warfare.


Oh, for your information, we are involved in a world wide
war at this time. But you like most on this forum do
not recognize that fact. We are fighting the terrorist in
many countries, maybe not openly, but troops are in
several countries and operations are on going in
several parts of the world. Not just Iraq and Afghanistan.
But how would you know. You live in your own little
world.


Like clockwork.. :clap

[xrayzebra]

^^Isn't it nice you have someone you can count on? :hat

[George Gervin's Afro]

^^Isn't it nice you have someone you can count on? :hat


Ray if anything your consistent and I respect that. Of course in your case you consistently wrong..

[smeagol]

Hey twerp, what is so wrong for fighting for "own self
interest"? What better reason to fight.

So you mean "(a) There is oil in country A, (b) We need oil ===> (c) Let's invade country A" :tu



I worry about now and the short future, like my kids and grand kids. And my own self-interest.

I'm not convinced you do given your anti-environment stance.



We did not have a mind to make VN a colony of the
United States, nor do we plan on having Iraq as a
colony of the U.S. We have never colonized any country,


The Philippines. For a shitload of time.



but I am sure according you your recollection of history
we are nothing but exploiters of other countries.


I wouldn't go as far. But I would say your country does a shitty job in leveling the playing field when it comes to international commerce.



you should use your head for something other than
a hat rack and thing about the fact we have never
kept any territory won thru warfare.

Almost true (the Philippines again). And you've kept military bases almost everywhere too.



Oh, for your information, we are involved in a world wide
war at this time.


Don't try to justify Iraq: It's unfuckingjustifiable.



We are fighting the terrorist in many countries, maybe not openly, but troops are in several countries and operations are on going in several parts of the world. Not just Iraq and Afghanistan.

Huh? Are you guys in Argentina too?

[velik_m]

We have never colonized any country

Hawaii

[xrayzebra]

Hawaii

We invaded Hawaii? I didn't know that. Oh and by the
way it is a state, you know.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, it was one of the original states whose indigenous Anglo-Saxon population actually ratified the constitution before Delaware. Nobody found out until 1959 because the bottle they put the message in didn't float to Washington DC until then.

[Extra Stout]

We invaded Hawaii? I didn't know that. Oh and by the
way it is a state, you know.
We didn't invade; we only threatened to invade. There was a battleship sitting off the coast while American business interests overthrew the monarchy.

[cheguevara]

I knew Hawaiians hate the US for a reason

[MannyIsGod]

We invaded Hawaii? I didn't know that. Oh and by the
way it is a state, you know.:lmao

I forgot htat Hawaii was one of the 13th colonies. Thank you for the reminder.

[exstatic]

We did not have a mind to make VN a colony of the
United States, nor do we plan on having Iraq as a
colony of the U.S. We have never colonized any country
Puerto Rico would beg to differ. They've waited 109 years at last count for sovereignty after we annexed them, post Spanish-American war.

[gtownspur]

Puerto Rico would beg to differ. They've waited 109 years at last count for sovereignty after we annexed them, post Spanish-American war.


Puerto Rico does not need sovereignty. :lol

They're a clusterfuck of a country.

[MannyIsGod]

Puerto Rico does not need sovereignty. :lol

They're a clusterfuck of a country.<cough> Iraq <cough>

[Extra Stout]

Puerto Rico would beg to differ. They've waited 109 years at last count for sovereignty after we annexed them, post Spanish-American war.
PR can vote themselves sovereignty any time they feel like it; they seem to prefer commonwealth status.

Actually, what they really want is to have the voting rights of a state without having to pay income tax, but that's not going to happen.

[xrayzebra]

We didn't invade; we only threatened to invade. There was a battleship sitting off the coast while American business interests overthrew the monarchy.


Oh, I forgot, the USA has always been a nasty, nasty
country that takes advantage of all the world, has never
done anything to help anyone and only wants to exploit,
pollute and generally take all the resources of the world.

Gee, how could I have ever been so short sighted.

Therefore, we should always surrender our interest
never protect our citizens and generally disregard any
of our concerns.

Can I now be considered a good dimm-o-crap or just
call me French. :smokin