Durant top freshman ever?

[atxrocker]

Top frosh of all time? Gotta be Durant
With all due respect to Magic and 'Melo, Horns' Durant has it all.


Kevin Durant is the best freshman to ever play college basketball.

I have no affiliation with Diet Dr Pepper, but to steal a phrase: That's my story and I'm sticking to it

I realize that freshmen were not allowed to play varsity ball in college until 1973 and that my scope will be limited to players I was able to watch on highlight films and ones I saw. So with that, I will have to apologize to fans of Wilt Chamberlain, Spencer Haywood and Jerry Lucas, players who did not make my top five.

Durant, Chris Jackson, Carmelo Anthony, Wayman Tisdale and Earvin "Magic" Johnson are not the greatest freshmen in the history of college basketball, just the greatest who were allowed to play.

In the days where freshman teams played other freshman teams while practicing against the varsity, players such as Chamberlain, Lew Alcindor (later Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) and Bill Walton were forced to wait one season before becoming part of the national landscape.

But since we're talking about the best freshmen ever to play varsity, I'm going with Durant.

Entering Friday's NCAA opener against New Mexico State, he has already joined Abdul-Jabbar, Walton and Oscar Robertson as players to win national player of the year honors in their first college varsity season.

Here are five reasons why Durant gets my vote over the others:

•1. Versatility: Durant led the Big 12 in scoring (25.1) and rebounding (11.4) and led the Longhorns in shot blocks (64) and steals (62). His outside shooting and shot blocking give him the slight edge over my No. 2, Magic Johnson. Only 44 assists in 33 games. He must improve his passing.

•2. Scoring ability: Durant can score in any fashion. How many 6-foot-9-inch guys playing the game right now use the old Mark Jackson teardrop shot in the lane? He and Anthony are also the best on the list at creating their own shot. Durant's gone for at least 30 points 11 times.

•3. Size: At 6-9 and 225 pounds, Durant's the second-biggest player on this list next to Tisdale. Durant is developing an inside game to go with a top-notch perimeter arsenal. His reported 89-inch wingspan gives him the potential to be a great defensive player on the next level.

•4. Athleticism: Durant has incredible feet for a guy his size. He runs the floor like a point guard and can stop on a dime and pull up for shots all over the place. He also has great hands that seem to find the ball in traffic.

•Upside: Johnson went on to become a Hall of Famer while Jackson fizzled shortly after changing his name to Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf. Tisdale is making jazz CDs now and Anthony is leading the NBA in scoring. Durant may take a while to grow into his body, but look for him to become a solid all-around player on the next level.

The choice of Durant is not an easy one because the college game has changed over the years. Magic, Larry Bird and Michael Jordan played college ball in the era before the three-point line, which basically revolutionized the game. Plus, the game has evolved from a post-first scoring mentality to a perimeter game.

I believe Durant would have been good in any era because he has multiple skills that are adaptable to different situations.

For those of you wondering about His Airness, Jordan did not make the list because he averaged less than 14 points a game as a freshman, though he did hit the jump shot that beat Georgetown and Patrick Ewing in the 1982 title game as a newcomer. Jordan also had James Worthy and Sam Perkins as teammates.

Durant has made it clear he doesn't want to discuss his NBA draft prospects during the season, though it would be the shock of all shocks if he decided to return for his sophomore year. Texas would vault to the top of the preseason polls and would be the home favorite to win the 2008 Final Four in San Antonio. If only that were true.

Durant will leave. Texas will likely need a win over No. 1 seed North Carolina in the Sweet 16, a mountain about as easy to climb as K2. As for KD, if he does declare himself eligible for the draft, he will be the highest-profile college player since Anthony (who led Syracuse to a national title in 2003) to leave after one season.

And the debate over the the NBA's age restriction rule will rage on.

Proponents say the rule, which essentially keeps 18-year-olds from entering the NBA draft, brings more talent to the college game. Opponents have created the term "rent-a-player" to describe these players who pack college arenas for one season only to quickly leave for NBA millions.

Enjoy Durant while you can. His fresh face will be plastered all over your TV screen over the next three weeks. And for many years to come.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/longhorns/03/14/14golden.html

[tlongII]

This will be debatable after Greg Oden wins the national championship this year.

[bdictjames]

Is Hansbrough a freshman? He could take home the trophy

[2centsworth]

Beno Udrih best PG ever because "he" won a championship.


I think Melo was better as a Freshman. Argueably TJ Ford was better too.

[atxrocker]

Argueably TJ Ford was better too.


:wtf

this has to be sarcasm... right?

[mardigan]

Is Hansbrough a freshman? He could take home the trophy
Sophmore. And yes he is, the only one thats arguable is Carmello, and he had a much better team around him. Personally, I dont think its even close

[Doug Collins]

Donald Sloan

[2centsworth]

:wtf

this has to be sarcasm... right?
no, because TJ Ford argueable made a bigger "TEAM" impact. Durant easily has more individual talent, but maybe because of the position he plays he's not able to make the team as good as TJ Ford did.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Pistol Pete? Arguably the greatest collegiate player of all-time and not even a mention?

[mardigan]

no, because TJ Ford argueable made a bigger "TEAM" impact. Durant easily has more individual talent, but maybe because of the position he plays he's not able to make the team as good as TJ Ford did.

I will agree Ford had a big impact, but only because the fact that he went to UT eventually probably got UT a player like Durant. But, Ford had team with more experience around him, Durant is the team

[mardigan]

Pistol Pete? Arguably the greatest collegiate player of all-time and not even a mention?
Its hard to bring up a player Ive never seen play, although I do realize his stats and impact where both top notch

[2centsworth]

I will agree Ford had a big impact, but only because the fact that he went to UT eventually probably got UT a player like Durant. But, Ford had team with more experience around him, Durant is the team
TJ had a Steve Nash type impact. Durant has all sorts of individual talent, but no more than MJ, Wilt, Magic, or Bird. As a matter of fact, it's way too early to bestow this sort of praise on Durant. Plus, I think it's unfair.

[degenerate_gambler]

Pistol Pete? Arguably the greatest collegiate player of all-time and not even a mention?


great point. he put up absolutely sick numbers that will NEVER be broken.

[2centsworth]

Pistol Pete was awesome. Here are two other lesser known freshman who I think were awesome too:

1. Chris Jackson, LSU- Think he broke Pistol Pete's freshman scoring record.
2. Kenny Anderson, GT- Took his team to the final four and almost beat the great UNLV team.

[dallaskd]

melo.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Pistol Pete was awesome. Here are two other lesser known freshman who I think were awesome too:

1. Chris Jackson, LSU- Think he broke Pistol Pete's freshman scoring record.
2. Kenny Anderson, GT- Took his team to the final four and almost beat the great UNLV team.


Maravich averaged 43.6 his freshman year. Unless you're talking about total points which Jackson did break...

Over the next three seasons he averaged 43.8, 44.2, and 44.5 ppg, respectively, leading the nation in scoring each year. Dude scored 50 28 times in college. It's hard to fathom his PPG average if he had the luxury of the 3 pt. line...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

no, because TJ Ford argueable made a bigger "TEAM" impact. Durant easily has more individual talent, but maybe because of the position he plays he's not able to make the team as good as TJ Ford did.



This texas team 2007 needs rebounding and defense, and TJ ford had not only the leading Texas rebounder of all time, but a slew of other solid big men (who weren't freshman overcoming a weight problem) as well as a senior slasher in Mouton, and an older more experienced version of Justin Mason (Ivey)

Naturally he set up his teamates more but he also had wayyy better and experienced teammates.


Durant naturally sucks as getting teammates involved but you're talking about a guy who is so dominating the scoring aspect of the game that he's taking freshmen and making the team jsut as good as last year's UT's team which was easily the best UT team of all time.

[2centsworth]

This texas team 2007 needs rebounding and defense, and TJ ford had not only the leading Texas rebounder of all time, but a slew of other solid big men (who weren't freshman overcoming a weight problem) as well as a senior slasher in Mouton, and an older more experienced version of Justin Mason (Ivey)

Naturally he set up his teamates more but he also had wayyy better and experienced teammates.


Durant naturally sucks as getting teammates involved but you're talking about a guy who is so dominating the scoring aspect of the game that he's taking freshmen and making the team jsut as good as last year's UT's team which was easily the best UT team of all time.
all I said is that the arguement could be made. Also, last years UT team was better than their final 4 team?

[2centsworth]

Maravich averaged 43.6 his freshman year. Unless you're talking about total points which Jackson did break...

Over the next three seasons he averaged 43.8, 44.2, and 44.5 ppg, respectively, leading the nation in scoring each year. Dude scored 50 28 times in college. It's hard to fathom his PPG average if he had the luxury of the 3 pt. line...
I don't remember which record, because I was writing from memory.

Maravich is one of my all-time favorites, so I'm with you all the way.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

all I said is that the arguement could be made. Also, last years UT team was better than their final 4 team?


I think so, yes. IMO, the final four team overacheived, while last year's team underachieved.

I hate to use the phrase, but I guess what I meant to say was 'on paper' last year's team was without a doubt the best

Even though we had no true point guard

which was last year's teams only weakness
But thats just my opinion. I can easily accept that the final four team was superior.

[2centsworth]

I think so, yes. IMO, the final four team overacheived, while last year's team underachieved.

I hate to use the phrase, but I guess what I meant to say was 'on paper' last year's team was without a doubt the best

Even though we had no true point guard

which was last year's teams only weakness
But thats just my opinion. I can easily accept that the final four team was superior.
cool

[K-State Spur]

no, because TJ Ford argueable made a bigger "TEAM" impact. Durant easily has more individual talent, but maybe because of the position he plays he's not able to make the team as good as TJ Ford did.

BS. Texas is playing in the NIT without Durant. With him, they are a top 15 team.

[K-State Spur]

Maravich averaged 43.6 his freshman year. Unless you're talking about total points which Jackson did break...

Over the next three seasons he averaged 43.8, 44.2, and 44.5 ppg, respectively, leading the nation in scoring each year. Dude scored 50 28 times in college. It's hard to fathom his PPG average if he had the luxury of the 3 pt. line...

That's true. Although Pete never met a look that he didn't like. He took more shots than Kobe to get to those numbers. He averaged almost 40 shots per game @ LSU - think about that, it's a shot per minute, pre-shot clock, did anybody else on LSU EVER shoot? - and never hit more than 45% in a season.

[2centsworth]

BS. Texas is playing in the NIT without Durant. With him, they are a top 15 team.
I'll disagree. The UT recruiting class was loaded with 5 and 4 star recruits, but you wouldn't know that because none of them shine with Durant, except for maybe Augustine a bit. If next year they don't make the big dance, and then maybe you have an arguement.

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&cfg=bb&c=8&yr=2006

[JMarkJohns]

I'll bite. Yes, Durant is the best freshman I've ever seen. I never saw Wilt or Russell. I don't recall Wooden playing either of his two stud bigs near enough as freshman to have the same impact that Durant has had. Carmelo wasn't near the player, despite similar numbers and he's the closest thing to stats and impact I can think of.

[K-State Spur]

I'll disagree. The UT recruiting class was loaded with 5 and 4 star recruits, but you wouldn't know that because none of them shine with Durant, except for maybe Augustine a bit. If next year they don't make the big dance, and then maybe you have an arguement.

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=9&cfg=bb&c=8&yr=2006

If Durant hadn't been around, Texas would have gotten buried before Augustin had a chance to really find his game. Not to mention that Durant makes everything easier for everybody else on his team by drawing all kinds of defensive attention.

There are quite a few top recruiting classes that ended up in the NIT. Duke's roster is littered with McD's AA's. And if it weren't for a single player - McRoberts - they might not have even qualified for the NIT.

[Cry Havoc]

Watch some Pistol Pete footage. Steve Nash reminds me a lot of him, the way he can pass, though arguably Pistol was a better pure shooter. The fact that he never shot well is a result of the ENTIRE defense of the opponent keyed on him, forcing him into incredibly difficult shots.

In one of his first games, Pistol put up 50 points, 11 assists, and 11 rebounds. If he ever had a decent player on his team to go to, his assist numbers would have been even higher. If he had a three point line, his stats would be absolutely unfathomable.

Say what you want about Durant. Pistol Pete owned the floor. I've never seen anyone take over a college game like he did. Durant isn't even close in that respect, although he is obviously an incredible force.

Pete is #1. There is no discussion here.

[Kermit]

pistol pete never played ncaa ball as a freshman, hence no mention of being the greatest freshman ever.

i've watched texas basketball for 23 years and to say that t.j. is even close in the better player argument is corky retarded. it's basically arguing for the sake of arguing. ford was great and texas wouldn't be where it is as a program without his contributions, but durant is talent personified far exceeding anything t.j. ever brought to the table and i think that he'd be the first one to tell you so.

[Cry Havoc]

pistol pete never played ncaa ball as a freshman, hence no mention of being the greatest freshman ever.

Wow, so I guess those 50 points, 11 boards and 11 assists against Southeastern Louisiana just materialized out of thin air, eh? I guess the fact that his freshman team lost one game that entire year (16-1 record) obviously means that he wasn't playing college ball. :smokin

[K-State Spur]

Watch some Pistol Pete footage. Steve Nash reminds me a lot of him, the way he can pass, though arguably Pistol was a better pure shooter. The fact that he never shot well is a result of the ENTIRE defense of the opponent keyed on him, forcing him into incredibly difficult shots.

In one of his first games, Pistol put up 50 points, 11 assists, and 11 rebounds. If he ever had a decent player on his team to go to, his assist numbers would have been even higher. If he had a three point line, his stats would be absolutely unfathomable.

Say what you want about Durant. Pistol Pete owned the floor. I've never seen anyone take over a college game like he did. Durant isn't even close in that respect, although he is obviously an incredible force.

Pete is #1. There is no discussion here.

I'm not saying that he wasn't an incredible player, just that Durant was more efficient (that doesn't necessarily mean better). It's just 40 shots a game over a 3 year career is a pretty incredible number in its own right.

[Kermit]

Wow, so I guess those 50 points, 11 boards and 11 assists against Southeastern Louisiana just materialized out of thin air, eh? I guess the fact that his freshman team lost one game that entire year (16-1 record) obviously means that he wasn't playing college ball. :smokin
let me explain something to you...

freshman weren't allowed to play ncaa ball back then. they had to play against other FRESHMAN. so yes, the 50 points and whatever other meaningless bullshit stats he had against whatever buttfuck opponent he played that year meant that he wasn't playing college ball. it was glorified high school basketball. the statistics didn't count as official stats. you were only given 3 years of eligbility. had pete played ncaa ball his freshman year, i have no doubt that he would be rated as one of the finest and best freshman to ever play college ball, but he isn't and will never be. discussion over.

and if we really want to make the argument using stats that pete compiled playing his freshman peers, just imagine what durant would do to a bunch of 18 year old knuckle-heads. the words "we surrender" come to mind.

[BUMP]

Durant is the team

atleast give Augustine and Abrams a little credit. i know what your trying to say but theyve played too well to be completely overshadowed by Durant's greatness

[2centsworth]

pistol pete never played ncaa ball as a freshman, hence no mention of being the greatest freshman ever.

i've watched texas basketball for 23 years and to say that t.j. is even close in the better player argument is corky retarded. it's basically arguing for the sake of arguing. ford was great and texas wouldn't be where it is as a program without his contributions, but durant is talent personified far exceeding anything t.j. ever brought to the table and i think that he'd be the first one to tell you so.
talent and value to a team do not coincide. Durant is the most talented freshman ever in UT history, but that wasn't the question. The question was is he the top freshman ever? More than talent enters into that equation. Tracy Mcgrady, Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony are all more talented than Steve Nash. However, Nash is more valuable.

I would take Magic in a heartbeat over Durant.

[Kermit]

talent and value to a team do not coincide. Durant is the most talented freshman ever in UT history, but that wasn't the question. The question was is he the top freshman ever? More than talent enters into that equation. Tracy Mcgrady, Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony are all more talented than Steve Nash. However, Nash is more valuable.

I would take Magic in a heartbeat over Durant.
shit...

i'd take magic too. i'm not arguing for kevin as the top freshman (i fucking hate conjecture on these types of issues), i'm just saying that i'd take him over t.j....

in a heartbeat.

[ShoogarBear]

The greatest freshman ever was Lew Alcindor, even though he never played a game of varisty.

When Alcindor was a freshman, the UCLA Freshman team beat the UCLA Varsity 75-60. Oh, that UCLA Varsity was 2-time defending national champions.

[Pugglekicker_21]

his team went 88-2 while he was there. Alcindor's skyhook was a thing of masterful beauty.

Pistol Pete was before my time, but I do know that he was amazing at scoring.

bottom line is, its all your opinion.