Nash MVP after tonight?

[SpursDynasty]

Bill Walton says Nash is MVP after tonight. I agree.

Good job for Phoenix going out there and beating a team they were supposed to beat.

So, Dirk or Nash , MVP?

[pking]

Bill Walton also said he'd take PHX's D over Houston's.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

no, dirk still deserves it

[dirk4mvp]

That statement is invalid now, since Walton said it.

[dirk4mvp]

Bill Walton also said he'd take PHX's D over Houston's.


:lmao

[Gros Membres!]

Dirk. Nash has yet to get this team over the hump in the playoffs and has won MVP honors for the past two years.

Dirk's team has been playing out of their minds this year and so has Dirk, while we're at it.

Gotta go Dirk here.

[SpursDynasty]

Dirk. Nash has yet to get this team over the hump in the playoffs and has won MVP honors for the past two years.

Dirk's team has been playing out of their minds this year and so has Dirk, while we're at it.

Gotta go Dirk here.

And I suppose losing in the Finals is considered getting over the hump? Based on how Stoudemire played tonight, Dallas wouldn't have stood a chance if Phoenix had Stoudemire in the playoffs last year.

[dirk4mvp]

And I suppose losing in the Finals is considered getting over the hump? Based on how Stoudemire played tonight, Dallas wouldn't have stood a chance if Phoenix had Stoudemire in the playoffs last year.


Amare hit what 13 straight shots? They won by 2.

[BillsCarnage]

Dirk. Nash has yet to get this team over the hump in the playoffs and has won MVP honors for the past two years.

Dirk's team has been playing out of their minds this year and so has Dirk, while we're at it.

Gotta go Dirk here.

Neither has Dirk - getting his team over the hump.

Sorry, but it's the clutch plays by Nash is what everyone will remember. The Suns' last 10pts in regulation.. The clutch 3 to send it to OT.. Taking the charge after the turnover.. Bouncing the ball off of Terry out of bounds..

[Shank]

Dirk helped get his team over the hump in last year's playoffs. That hump was named the Spurs. This year, he's been using the other players around him more than ever before and sharing the ball better all while still putting up consistent double-doubles.

Nash should be remembered for using his free hand to shove off or hook every time he gets into the paint.

[clambake]

Time to put "Dirk for MVP" on hold. He hit the floor like a kid crying for ice cream. He missed shots and FT's that winners would make. Nash whipped him again. Time will tell, but for now? shut up.

Now is his chance to prove something, or fold.

[pking]

Neither has Dirk - getting his team over the hump.

Sorry, but it's the clutch plays by Nash is what everyone will remember. The Suns' last 10pts in regulation.. The clutch 3 to send it to OT.. Taking the charge after the turnover.. Bouncing the ball off of Terry out of bounds..

Just thought I'd remind you that this is only one of 82.

[Shank]

If games between Phoenix and the Mavs are going to be the deciding point of the MVP vote then it's Dirk 2, Nash 1.

It's just a single regular season game. Anyone questioning Dirk's effectiveness and his ability to help his team to 60+ wins after a single game should Richard Jeni themselves (too soon?).

Both guys obviously have the potential to take the award, but it's asinine to base it off of a single game rather than the full body of work.

Let's not forget that Dustin Hoffman was also in "Ishtar". These things happen.

[BillsCarnage]

Just thought I'd remind you that this is only one of 82.

That's right, it is. But Mavs fans sure were talking it up when the Mavs were 2-0 against the Suns earlier in the season. Saying how much Dallas "owned" the Suns.

The fact is that these are two very evenly match teams.

[pking]

Well, ignore the stupid Mavs fans that say shit like that. :lol We won by two points last time -- hardly 'owning' your team, just like you won by two points tonight -- hardly 'owning' us.

But if your argument for MVP is all based on tonight, that's just a bit ridiculous.


On another note...
Tonight is one of those nights that stats people (which I must admit, I'm somewhat obsessed with stats) are proven so wrong. Dirks line is VERY similar to Steves (switch around the rebs/asts...steve had two more boards than dirk had assists, but he also had two more TOs than Dirk) but its obvious that Steve had a fantastic game, Dirk's game was apparently worthy of taking the MVP trophy that everyone had earlier professed was his away from him.

[monosylab1k]

And anybody who wanted to make a case that Dirk has improved at defense probably doesn't have much to say tonight. It was really embarrassing seeing him go against Nash and watching Nash make THE EXACT SAME MOVE and THE EXACT SAME SHOT and watching it go in EVERY FUCKING TIME.

Dampier played better one-on-one defense against Nash than Dirk did....that's really pathetic...

[Amuseddaysleeper]

And anybody who wanted to make a case that Dirk has improved at defense probably doesn't have much to say tonight. It was really embarrassing seeing him go against Nash and watching Nash make THE EXACT SAME MOVE and THE EXACT SAME SHOT and watching it go in EVERY FUCKING TIME.

Dampier played better one-on-one defense against Nash than Dirk did....that's really pathetic...

in all fairness, nash could make TD his bitch


he is just an amazing and very creative offensive player and has an amazing touch around the basket

[monosylab1k]

in all fairness, nash could make TD his bitch


he is just an amazing and very creative offensive player and has an amazing touch around the basket

Yeah that's true....but it just really blew me away in the game when, after Dirk was getting owned one-on-one by Nash all game, somehow Dampier gets switched over and has to guard him....and right then i'm thinking "well put an automatic 2 points on the board for Phoenix" yet amazingly Damp stuck with Nash and forced a bad shot.....which of course made my jaw go crashing into the foundation of the house.

[endrity]

Dirk forced a couple of misses, he was matched on Steve way more though. You can't expect a 7 footer to defend Nash on the perimeter consistently, that's not what you should base the evaluation of his D. If anything is bad strategy.

[RonMexico]

That statement is invalid now, since Walton said it.

Walton can say some dumb things, but he's one of the few that points out when team strategies work/fail. For example, he noted immediately something I've been saying since December: don't let Dirk go left. Raja Bell doesn't let Dirk go left, but Diaw and Marion do.

Marion got his stops tonight when he forced Dirk right. Look up my posts from months ago, but I will tell you that I've been saying this for a while and always wonder why one out of the Suns' gazillion coaches doesn't step up and tell Marion to change his defensive stance.

JET, on the other hand, prefers to go right, I think so you have to make him go left and not let him drift to the right side of the court.

[RonMexico]

Amare hit what 13 straight shots? They won by 2.

Right. Thanks for proving his point. Tonight's game was almost a carbon copy of last year's WCF Game 6 (Suns jump out early, Dallas claws back and takes lead in 3rd). What was the difference tonight? Amare Stoudemire keeping them in the game and helping them get buckets inside (oh, and Nash scoring 10 points in 57 seconds).

The result in WCF: Mavs' 9 point win in Phoenix.

Result tonight: Suns' 2 point win in Dallas.

[Xylus]

10 points in 55 seconds. MP3! MP3!

[VinnyTestesVerde]

it's unfortunate for dirk, but i think nash got it last night. i think it's done.

[ponky]

Bill Walton says Nash is MVP after tonight. I agree.

Good job for Phoenix going out there and beating a team they were supposed to beat.

So, Dirk or Nash , MVP?

after tonight, maybe, even though dirk was equally impressive in the dec. game with the last second game winning shot so they've both played a good game against each other...after april 4th, we'll see...if the mavs go up 3-1 on the suns, hell no

[ponky]

Bill Walton says Nash is MVP after tonight. I agree.

Good job for Phoenix going out there and beating a team they were supposed to beat.

So, Dirk or Nash , MVP?

yeah you're right, they beat a team they were supposed to beat every other game by two points...they also beat a team they were supposed to beat last month by 16 points...good job suns

[ponky]

in all fairness, nash could make TD his bitch


he is just an amazing and very creative offensive player and has an amazing touch around the basket

yes nash is amazing...and dirk should not be guarding him, that's ridiculous

[sribb43]

Dirk lost his MVP last night and Nash won the MVP last night. Writers will remember Nash's clutchness and Dirk faultering in the 4th with missed free thows

[LEONARD]

There are still quite a few games left, including Dallas @ Phoenix...

and Walton is a blubbering idiot (in general, not because he said Nash won the MVP last night)...

[RonMexico]

LZ Granderson:

"OK, can we stop with this debate once and for all? Anyone who watched the the Suns' 129-127, 2-OT road win over the Mavs knows Dirk Nowitzki is not the league's MVP. He's not even the MVP of his team. He's a great player. He's an All-Star. But the league's MVP drew two crucial fouls and scored 10 points in the final 57 seconds of regulation, including the 3-pointer to send the game into the first OT. The MVP made the defensive play of the game, deflecting the ball out of bounds off Jason Terry in the closing seconds of the second overtime.

The true MVP is Steve Nash -- again. The tighter the game became, the more Dirk disappeared. The more Dirk hesitated the more Nash dictated. This isn't about numbers, or missed shots -- though had Dirk made both free throws near the end of regulation the game would have been over. No, this is about heart. Jerry Stackhouse has it. Jason Terry has it. Josh Howard has it. But with all due respect to Mark Cuban, last night showed us all what Dwyane Wade was talking about when he basically said Dirk choked in the Finals. Listen, the big guy brings a lot to his basketball team, but heart ain't on the list.

That doesn't mean the Mavs won't win the championship. It just means Dirk's not the deciding factor in the team doing so. I know it was just one game but it was a very important game. One in which the Mavs needed to send a message. In a close contest between two excellent basketball teams, the MVP is suppossed to be the difference-maker. Anyone who watched knows who stepped up when their team needed them to and who let their team down. The final play of the game summed it up perfectly -- Dirk missing the shot to tie and Nash snatching the rebound. In my eyes, it wasn't the only thing Nash snatched."

[MrChug]

Dirk lost his MVP last night and Nash won the MVP last night. Writers will remember Nash's clutchness and Dirk faultering in the 4th with missed free thows

I would have put it a little different, but basically WHAT HE SAID^^^^

It was sad watching Dirk meltdown.

[tlongII]

Nash should win the MVP. IMO, it isn't even close. The Suns were 0-3 when Nash sat out three games. He defines that team. Dallas would still be very good without Dirk.

[ponky]

LZ Granderson:

"OK, can we stop with this debate once and for all? Anyone who watched the the Suns' 129-127, 2-OT road win over the Mavs knows Dirk Nowitzki is not the league's MVP. He's not even the MVP of his team. He's a great player. He's an All-Star. But the league's MVP drew two crucial fouls and scored 10 points in the final 57 seconds of regulation, including the 3-pointer to send the game into the first OT. The MVP made the defensive play of the game, deflecting the ball out of bounds off Jason Terry in the closing seconds of the second overtime.

The true MVP is Steve Nash -- again. The tighter the game became, the more Dirk disappeared. The more Dirk hesitated the more Nash dictated. This isn't about numbers, or missed shots -- though had Dirk made both free throws near the end of regulation the game would have been over. No, this is about heart. Jerry Stackhouse has it. Jason Terry has it. Josh Howard has it. But with all due respect to Mark Cuban, last night showed us all what Dwyane Wade was talking about when he basically said Dirk choked in the Finals. Listen, the big guy brings a lot to his basketball team, but heart ain't on the list.

That doesn't mean the Mavs won't win the championship. It just means Dirk's not the deciding factor in the team doing so. I know it was just one game but it was a very important game. One in which the Mavs needed to send a message. In a close contest between two excellent basketball teams, the MVP is suppossed to be the difference-maker. Anyone who watched knows who stepped up when their team needed them to and who let their team down. The final play of the game summed it up perfectly -- Dirk missing the shot to tie and Nash snatching the rebound. In my eyes, it wasn't the only thing Nash snatched."

lol, how quickly this idiot forgot about dirk's clutch last shot to win the last time the suns/mavs matched up. give nash the mvp, i could really care less, it will make it that much sweeter when they don't advance out of the west yet again for the third year straight...he'll be the only three time mvp winner to not win a championship

[peskypesky]

Nash

[Shank]

It's reading crap like that that helps make the argument that the MVP should be awarded after the season.

[peskypesky]

Neither has Dirk - getting his team over the hump.

Sorry, but it's the clutch plays by Nash is what everyone will remember. The Suns' last 10pts in regulation.. The clutch 3 to send it to OT.. Taking the charge after the turnover.. Bouncing the ball off of Terry out of bounds..

I am in total agreement. Nash's plays will be remembered. The shots, the assists, the bounce off Terry. Just the fact that the Suns were down by 15 going in to the fourth! And Nash engineers a victory?!?! Amazing. That's my MVP.

[Shank]

Anyone that's going to have their vote swayed after one game needs to have their head examined.

[peskypesky]

LZ Granderson:

"In a close contest between two excellent basketball teams, the MVP is suppossed to be the difference-maker. Anyone who watched knows who stepped up when their team needed them to and who let their team down. The final play of the game summed it up perfectly -- Dirk missing the shot to tie and Nash snatching the rebound."

Yep. I will always remember watching Nash sky up to snatch that last rebound. As one of the commentators said, "It's not how small you are, but how big you play." As tall as Dirk is, Nash is an inch taller.

[ponky]

I am in total agreement. Nash's plays will be remembered. The shots, the assists, the bounce off Terry. Just the fact that the Suns were down by 15 going in to the fourth! And Nash engineers a victory?!?! Amazing. That's my MVP.

no, they won't...know why? nobody remembers the clutch shot dirk made to win the game the last time they matched up...nobody remembers the 54 he dumped on the suns last season...stop being so freakin' dramatic, nobody will remember nash unless he wins a trophy. i'm not saying that he's not a great baller, he's one of the best without a doubt and plays with an amazing amount of talent. however, nobody will remember this a year from now, only freaks like us who cheer for the spurs, suns and mavs to beat up on each other. although, if nash gets his third mvp and no trophy, THAT will certainly be remembered. people always like to point out the good ones with no trophy and nash would probably be at the top of that pile.

[RonMexico]

ponky, everyone remembers those moments

in fact, a lot of Mavs fans have reminded us of that over and over again... if I have to hear about our 2006 rental player (Tim Thomas) blowing a kiss to Dirk again, I might shoot someone.

[ponky]

ponky, everyone remembers those moments

in fact, a lot of Mavs fans have reminded us of that over and over again... if I have to hear about our 2006 rental player (Tim Thomas) blowing a kiss to Dirk again, I might shoot someone.

like i said above, only mavs, suns, spurs freaks remember that shit as fodder to talk smack online. learn to read before posting.

[atxrocker]

there'd be nothing better than to see anybody but dirk win it.

[ponky]

there'd be nothing better than to see anybody but dirk win it.

seriously, who cares? it's been like a consolation prize for nash the last two years. give it to him again, maybe it'll piss off dirk enough that he'll stop having cuddle fests with nash everytime the two teams match up

[RonMexico]

like i said above, only mavs, suns, spurs freaks remember that shit as fodder to talk smack online. learn to read before posting.

more than Spurs/Mavs/Suns fans... real NBA fans remember it.... you know that.

We're the only ones that bring it up to talk shit.

[Spurs4eva]

there'd be nothing better than to see anybody but dirk win it.

I agree with you that Lebron should win it.

[ponky]

more than Spurs/Mavs/Suns fans... real NBA fans remember it.... you know that.

We're the only ones that bring it up to talk shit.

you're probably right...real nba fans, unlike some of the idiots here, would remember nash's good performance last night as well as dirk's performances prior to last night...however, we're talking about a small minority of people, most casual fans can't even name every single player on the team they root for, like the last 2-3 guys on the bench. most nba fans are casual fans and that's mostly what matters, this is what the media feeds on, they don't linger on one moment for too long, that's what espn classic's for...you've got to be naive as hell to think that lots of people will remember this game for a long time :rolleyes

[RonMexico]

Oh, I don't think they'll remember the game as a whole, but they will definitely remember the performances... and possibly the last 11 minutes of the game (including the 2 OTs)

[Shank]

Can I quote Mike Fisher on this? I know R-Mex likes it:

MVP Race Is Over! (In A Month)

The concept slobbered forth by ESPN's Bill Walton as he intro'd the Suns-at-Mavs game to the national audience:

"The MVP race will most likely be decided tonight!''

Somebody get Walton a bib -- and some perspective.

Going into Wednesday's 129-127 double-OT loss to the Suns, Dirk had been pulling away from the competition -- the competition being Steve Nash. In Phoenix, Nash is surrounded by supposed superstars (I've seen both Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion touted as being worthy of MVP votes; Amare's 41 points on Wednesday makes one scoff a little less) while Nowitzki is supported by players usually downgraded as being "complementary.''

That's one way to break a Dirk-vs.-Nash voting tie; say Nash has better teammates. Of course, that seems subjective at the least, and maybe even arbitrary; out of nowhere on Wednesday comes Jerry Stackhouse with his 33 points, his biggest Mavs outburst in the biggest Mavs game of the year. So just how lacking in Dallas' "supporting cast,'' really?

Another way would be to reward the MVP candidate who leads his team to the best record in the league. As a tie-breaker, that makes sense. For that reason, Nash supports Dirk. (He also supports Dirk because he's an unselfish friend; Dirk likewise supports Nash, and I'm imagining that when they dined together in Uptown on Tuesday night, they fought to pik up the tab, maybe even fought to see which guy would get to hold the restaurant door open for the other, kind of like those overly polite chipmunks. ... squirrels? ... in the old Warner Bros. cartoons.)

A more immediate, fast-food-era solution: Head-to-head. Walton leans that way. So, even do some of the otherwise right-thinking folks at SLAM, where Dirk is today being dismissed as a choker -- and worse, as a Chris Webber clone.(Yeccch.)

First of all, to the numbers:

Nash's line: 32 points, eight rebounds, 16 assists. Crazy good.

Nowitzki's line: 30 points and 16 rebounds and six assists. Pretty much equally crazy good.

Nash, essentially, made one more shot than Dirk made. If Dirk hits a free throw at the end of regulation, Dallas wins. And then what? HE'S suddenly the MVP? Because he made a free throw?

Nah. Dirk's body of work will be 82 games long. You can't give an MVP based on one game, just because the two candidates went head-to-head! What if Nash plays poorly this weekend? Do we get to retract our pronouncements? On April 1, they play again. Should Dirk not show up because two-time MVP Nash is an "amazing, MVP-clinching'' 1-2 against him this year? If the Mavs win that game, you know, they will be 3-1 this year against Nash's Suns -- but Nash deserves the MVP because he played one point better than Dirk in THE ONE GAME OUT OF FOUR PHOENIX WON?

Think of it this way: If Dirk makes a free throw, do his critics suddenly shift gears and declare HIM the MVP because his team won?

I didn't think so.

(Geez. Why must I always be the one in charge of logic around here? Oh, along with ESPN's Marc Stein and his even-handed look at the game.)

"The MVP race will most likely be decided tonight!''?

Nope. Another month. A looong month. Including high-profile games against Detroit, San Antonio and yes, Phoenix. Another month. That'll make 82 games. Then comes a decision.

What did we really learn about the MVP race on Wednesday? That for the 1,940,321th consecutive time, Bill Walton is slobberingly and droolingly wrong.

Nothing's been decided. 'Cept for that.

[mavsfan1000]

One game should not decide a MVP award. It's pathetic how they made such a big deal about this game. Dirk has outplayed Nash all season and than has one bad game and now Nash is MVP? Bullshit.

[monosylab1k]

If Dirk hits a free throw at the end of regulation, Dallas wins. And then what? HE'S suddenly the MVP? Because he made a free throw?

It was the biggest free throw he's shot since the Finals last season. It was all about his ability to come through in the clutch, and it wasn't even making a shot with a guy in his face (because he sure as shit couldn't do that last night either).....it was a FUCKIN' FREE THROW! People can say "it was one free throw" all they want...but that free throw had alot more significance than the one point it would have given the Mavs.

[RonMexico]

One game should not decide a MVP award. It's pathetic how they made such a big deal about this game. Dirk has outplayed Nash all season and than has one bad game and now Nash is MVP? Bullshit.

Exactly. That's why I said earlier the decision will come after the April game in Phoenix... if Dirk drops 50 in US Airways Center, then he'll lock it up. If he misses a FT that could ice the game, he might lose it. 4 games, a 2-2 split (possibly) could give Nash the award because voters have a very short memory.

[RonMexico]

Mike Fisher is the Skip Bayless of Dallas... I'd probably want to kill him in real life, but his writing makes me chuckle (because he's a funny guy - not because I think he's completely off base for the "1,940,321th consecutive time"... in fact, I think he does a good job of grounding everybody who wants to crown Nash based on the last 11 minutes of the game - 1 min in 4th and 2 OTs).

[sribb43]

Nash should win the MVP. IMO, it isn't even close. The Suns were 0-3 when Nash sat out three games. He defines that team. Dallas would still be very good without Dirk.

I'm tired of hearing this arguement. So Nash should be rewarded because he was injured and his team lost. So lets have Dirk sit out a few games and watch the mavs struggle, and then what? he should get more consideration bc his team lost while he was out. Same could be said if Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, KG, etc were out with injuries there teams would suck as well, so they should be MVP as well. this arguement has no merit to it.

[ponky]

who fucking cares? dirk didn't lose the game for us, he came through during the third and helped bigtime in whittling that 16 point deficit down. i'm not all into dissing the mavs but if anyone deserves a wake up call it was jho and his silly three shots foul on nash. just like no one would toss manu out for fouling dirk last season, i'm not about to hate on jho, he's my boy. stupid mistake but it happens, deal and move on.

no one's clutch all the time and there have been games this season where dirk has hit the game winning or deciding shot. he missed, sacrilege, let's crucify him. whatever, do it, doesn't change anything, calm the eff down already.

[Shank]

30/16/6 is terrible.

[Shank]

By the way, it's fun to read the Spurs side of the board right now. This whole 'NBA Championship' thing has been all but giftwrapped for them.

[monosylab1k]

30/16/6 is terrible.

numbers lie sometimes.....30 points on 28 shots is indeed terrible....11 for 28 is terrible....4 points in 2 OT periods.....and of course if he had scored just 1 more fourth quarter point, this game doesn't go to OT.

[RonMexico]

numbers lie sometimes.....30 points on 28 shots is indeed terrible....11 for 28 is terrible....4 points in 2 OT periods.....and of course if he had scored just 1 more fourth quarter point, this game doesn't go to OT.

Nicely put.

Dirk still had a very good game and JET almost got his 3rd straight 30-point game against Phoenix.

Looked like Stack couldn't miss for a while out there...

[traitoravery]

It was sad watching Dirk meltdown.
Are you kidding me it was freakin awesome!!!! :elephant :elephant :elephant