What is the difference between choking and having no heart?

[Findog]

OK, can we stop with this debate once and for all? Anyone who watched the the Suns' 129-127, 2-OT road win over the Mavs knows Dirk Nowitzki is not the league's MVP. He's not even the MVP of his team. He's a great player. He's an All-Star. But the league's MVP drew two crucial fouls and scored 10 points in the final 57 seconds of regulation, including the 3-pointer to send the game into the first OT. The MVP made the defensive play of the game, deflecting the ball out of bounds off Jason Terry in the closing seconds of the second overtime.

The true MVP is Steve Nash -- again. The tighter the game became, the more Dirk disappeared. The more Dirk hesitated the more Nash dictated. This isn't about numbers, or missed shots -- though had Dirk made both free throws near the end of regulation the game would have been over. No, this is about heart. Jerry Stackhouse has it. Jason Terry has it. Josh Howard has it. But with all due respect to Mark Cuban, last night showed us all what Dwyane Wade was talking about when he basically said Dirk choked in the Finals. Listen, the big guy brings a lot to his basketball team, but heart ain't on the list.

That doesn't mean the Mavs won't win the championship. It just means Dirk's not the deciding factor in the team doing so. I know it was just one game but it was a very important game. One in which the Mavs needed to send a message. In a close contest between two excellent basketball teams, the MVP is suppossed to be the difference-maker. Anyone who watched knows who stepped up when their team needed them to and who let their team down. The final play of the game summed it up perfectly -- Dirk missing the shot to tie and Nash snatching the rebound. In my eyes, it wasn't the only thing Nash snatched.
--LZ Granderson

This one of the most moronic things I've ever read. Do LZ Granderson of ESPN have a degree in pyschology? It's one thing to call somebody a choker, and missing clutch free throws is the definition of choke. But to say somebody has no "heart" is making a value and moral judgment. JR Rider had no heart. Benoit Benjamin had no heart. Same goes for Tim Thomas and countless others. But these comments are despicable. What exactly does it mean to say that Dirk has no "heart"? What does that even mean? He doesn't want to win? When somebody busts their ass off to improve their game year after year, plays unselfishly within a team concept, that means they have no "heart"? Dirk choked last nite, there's absolutely no question that just one measly make from the free throw line would've sealed it for Dallas. But I see the missed free throws as trying to hard and trying to do too much.

But if we follow this ephemeral logic, why does Dirk get condemned so harshly while Jason Terry and Josh Howard get a pass? JET got himself suspended from a pivotal playoff game because he lost his temper and punched an opposing player. Howard make a mental mistake in the Finals by calling a timeout and then again last night when he allowed himself to leave his feet and then crash into Nash on that wild three point attempt. And yet while those actions are unacceptable and the definition of choking, why are JET and Howard not being questioned on their heart, desire and resolve?

[LEONARD]

Pretty f'n lame...anybody that watches Dirk all season knows that is complete BS...

Yea, he and others "choked" last night...doesn't mean he doesn't have heart...

[Findog]

Steve Nash was terrible in the fourth quarter of Game Six in the Conference Finals last year. Doesn't mean he choked or has no heart. He's still a fucking badass.

[ponky]

Pretty f'n lame...anybody that watches Dirk all season knows that is complete BS...

Yea, he and others "choked" last night...doesn't mean he doesn't have heart...

exactly...look at his stats...you think he put in all that effort just to not give a f*ck in the waning minutes of the game? this is like the all-out effort duncan put in last year in game seven only to fade in OT. dirk choked but he didn't do it alone, jho should've never made that rookie mistake...doesn't mean they don't have heart.

[Findog]

exactly...look at his stats...you think he put in all that effort just to not give a f*ck in the waning minutes of the game? this is like the all-out effort duncan put in last year in game seven only to fade in OT. dirk choked but he didn't do it alone, jho should've never made that rookie mistake...doesn't mean they don't have heart.


It's just typical kneejerk commentary over one regular season game. It was definitely as big a game as it gets in the regular season. By winning, Phoenix keeps their hopes at the #1 seed alive, they don't lose the tiebreaker to Dallas and they get the confidence boost of knowing they can come into the AAC and win a game...which they might need to do in the playoffs if Dallas has home court. Dallas could've won the tiebreaker and the #1 seed last night.

Last year Dallas and San Antonio met down in San Antonio in April in a very highly anticipated game since both teams were by far the class of the league. And San Antonio won by 9 by making all the plays in crunchtime in the last three minutes, and it was the same commentary: "Same old Mavs, still not in the Spurs' class, etc...." No need for either team's fanbase to start planning a championship parade after last night's double overtime two-point margin of victory. I could make excuses for Dallas with us missing a double dose of Devin and that we missed free throws we normally make, but that would just be excuses. Phoenix executed in crunchtime and we didn't. Things will be answered definitively in May. In the meantime, LZ should realize that the championship is handed out in June on a makeshift stage, not in March from his keyboard.

[ponky]

It's just typical kneejerk commentary over one regular season game. It was definitely as big a game as it gets in the regular season. By winning, Phoenix keeps their hopes at the #1 seed alive, they don't lose the tiebreaker to Dallas and they get the confidence boost of knowing they can come into the AAC and win a game...which they might need to do in the playoffs if Dallas has home court. Dallas could've won the tiebreaker and the #1 seed last night.

Last year Dallas and San Antonio met down in San Antonio in April in a very highly anticipated game since both teams were by far the class of the league. And San Antonio won by 9 by making all the plays in crunchtime in the last three minutes, and it was the same commentary: "Same old Mavs, still not in the Spurs' class, etc...." No need for either team's fanbase to start planning a championship parade after last night's double overtime two-point margin of victory. I could make excuses for Dallas with us missing a double dose of Devin and that we missed free throws we normally make, but that would just be excuses. Phoenix executed in crunchtime and we didn't. Things will be answered definitively in May. In the meantime, LZ should realize that the championship is handed out in June on a makeshift stage, not in March from his keyboard.

good points

[Shank]

Who the hell is LZ Granderson?

Sounds like an Eric Neel-type. Writing some trash just to get your name noticed.

[Don Quixote]

LZ, like most of Page 2, is not worth reading. Is he the liberal activist on the site, or are they all? Other than Bill Simmons and Gregg Easterbrook, I don't have time for Page 2.

Yes, Dallas choked. But they played with total heart last night. Heart has nothing to do with why they lost.

[SRJ]

I agree with all of you. "Heart" is stupid.

I will say, though, that Dirk gets more heat than Terry and Howard because he's the big dog on that team. It doesn't matter if the team is good enough or not. It doesn't matter what the other players did or didn't do: if the big dog doesn't produce, or even if it appears that he doesn't produce, he gets the heat. We went through that for years with David Robinson.

[Findog]

LZ, like most of Page 2, is not worth reading. Is he the liberal activist on the site, or are they all? .

Yeah, he's the openly gay writer who shit on Amaechi for waiting until after he retired to come out, and questioning Amaechi's courage. Like a scrub/end of the bench type can afford to come out while active. Come to think of it, this must be projection on LZ's part. Whatever he is, he sees in others.

[Don Quixote]

Yeah, he's the openly gay writer who shit on Amaechi for waiting until after he retired to come out, and questioning Amaechi's courage. Like a scrub/end of the bench type can afford to come out while active. Come to think of it, this must be projection on LZ's part. Whatever he is, he sees in others.

I didn't know about the openly gay part. Frankly, I don't care. And pretty much every sports writer in America is liberal -- I don't know a single conservative sports writer. Are there any?

And I'm not trying to diss him because he's liberal. But he's a sportswriter. He knows sports. Philosophy is a completely different bird, however, and one best not touched by sports types. Or else all we get is graffiti and drive-bys, sortof what one gets on message boards :) .

[monosylab1k]

Questioning the Mavs heart is stupid. The Mavericks are the definition of heart. Unfortunately, they're the definition of choking too.

[bdictjames]

The true MVP is Steve Nash -- again. The tighter the game became, the more Dirk disappeared. The more Dirk hesitated the more Nash dictated.

I love that line right there.

[monosylab1k]

Philosophy is a completely different bird, however, and one best not touched by sports types. Or else all we get is graffiti and drive-bys.

So you'd be equally critical of a conservative sports writer who spews his conservative beliefs in the same way a liberal sports writer spews his liberal ones?

[Xylus]

I wouldn't say that Dirk lost the MVP trophy last night--I mean, he's still got another chance to make his case in early April, when Dallas comes to Phoenix. As I recall, it was Dirk who hit the game-winning shot against Phoenix back in December, not Nash.

You can't just forget about everything Dirk has done up until this point, just because he played poorly in the biggest game of the year (though I see why some people would). Dirk is still MVP-worthy, and he's going to continue to prove it for the remaining 19 games or so.


That said, Nash was Un.Fucking.Believable last night. 10 points in the last 55 seconds of regulation. That beautiful defensive play where he knocked the ball out of bounds off of Terry's leg. Even the very final rebound off of Dirk's missed shot was a statement.

32 points, 16 assists, 8 rebounds, our MVP. Gotta love him. Even though Stoudemire was 16-19 for 41 points, Nash was the Player of the Game. Walton and Barry were practically nutting themselves everytime Nash touched the ball.

[MrChug]

I think that the Mav's both choked and played with heart. They wanted the win, they played their hearts' out, just made the wrong decisions and failed to make big shots.

[Don Quixote]

So you'd be equally critical of a conservative sports writer who spews his conservative beliefs in the same way a liberal sports writer spews his liberal ones?

Yeah, I'd like to think so. As a "purist" conservative, I call out conservatives, and other evangelicals, when they are unfair or wrong, or when their argument doesn't work. I do it all the time in the schoolhouse.

Are there any conservative sports writers? I don't know any.

[Don Quixote]

Look, Dallas and Dirk choked last night. But don't take it too hard. After all, they're still 4 games ahead of everybody else with ... 18 to go?

Shoot, do you know how many games the Spurs have lost because they choked on free throws at the end? Shoot, Tim himself has lost probably a dozen games that way. And there's always .4 and the Manu foul last year. We've had our heartbreaks, and in bigger games than last night.

Of course, we have 3 championship trophies, proudly displayed in the SBC Center, to make us feel better. :)

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, I'd like to think so. As a "purist" conservative, I call out conservatives, and other evangelicals, when they are unfair or wrong, or when their argument doesn't work. I do it all the time in the schoolhouse.

Okay. That's definitely cool, lots of people aren't like that.

[Findog]

Look, Dallas and Dirk choked last night. But don't take it too hard. After all, they're still 4 games ahead of everybody else with ... 18 to go?

Shoot, do you know how many games the Spurs have lost because they choked on free throws at the end? Shoot, Tim himself has lost probably a dozen games that way. And there's always .4 and the Manu foul last year. We've had our heartbreaks, and in bigger games than last night.

Of course, we have 3 championship trophies, proudly displayed in the SBC Center, to make us feel better. :)

Agreed and well-said. I emailed him basically the contents of the parent post and here was his reply:

Go ahead and be an apologist all you want but there's
a difference between wanting to win and having the
guts to do something about it. Dirk was scared. He was
frazzled. He didn't want the ball and if it wasn't for
JET there is no double overtime. I like Dirk's game
and I think he's a good guy, but if you can't depend
on your money player in crunch time is he really your
money player?

And my response to that:

I'm not being an apologist -- He choked. Have you ever watched the Mavericks before? Did you know he hit the game-winning shot with Marion in his face at the buzzer the last time these two teams met? Did you know that the Suns choked up a twenty point lead in Game 6 last year and Nash was terrible in the fourth quarter? Did you know Dirk came up HUGE against San Antonio in Game 7 last year? Duncan was terrible in overtime of Game 7, are you going to claim he has no heart and "didn't have the guts" to do something about the game? Jerk your knees much, or make sweeping conclusions based off one game?

He didn't want the ball? Didn't he take the last shot? You're just waiting to pounce everytime Dirk and the Mavs stumble, and you're utterly transparent. I'll ride with Dirk everytime. One game doesn't a season or a career make, especially a regular season game.

[itzsoweezee]

dirk has no heart and he chokes (at least when the refs aren't around to bail him out). it's become his calling card now. expect more disappointment mavs fans, lol.

[Agloco]

Questioning the Mavs heart is stupid. The Mavericks are the definition of heart. Unfortunately, they're the definition of choking too.


Yub yub........

Unfortunately they do have that tendency.

I think the writer was attempting to convey the thought that Dirk disappears late in big games. Heart nonwithstanding of course. For whatever reason, he's just not as big a presence in situations like last nites.

Or as I've called it on numerous posts, he suffers from shrinkage........

[Kermit]

Agreed and well-said. I emailed him basically the contents of the parent post and here was his reply:

Go ahead and be an apologist all you want but there's
a difference between wanting to win and having the
guts to do something about it. Dirk was scared. He was
frazzled. He didn't want the ball and if it wasn't for
JET there is no double overtime. I like Dirk's game
and I think he's a good guy, but if you can't depend
on your money player in crunch time is he really your
money player?

And my response to that:

I'm not being an apologist -- He choked. Have you ever watched the Mavericks before? Did you know he hit the game-winning shot with Marion in his face at the buzzer the last time these two teams met? Did you know that the Suns choked up a twenty point lead in Game 6 last year and Nash was terrible in the fourth quarter? Did you know Dirk came up HUGE against San Antonio in Game 7 last year? Duncan was terrible in overtime of Game 7, are you going to claim he has no heart and "didn't have the guts" to do something about the game? Jerk your knees much, or make sweeping conclusions based off one game?

He didn't want the ball? Didn't he take the last shot? You're just waiting to pounce everytime Dirk and the Mavs stumble, and you're utterly transparent. I'll ride with Dirk everytime. One game doesn't a season or a career make, especially a regular season game.
nice response, but he's doing what he gets paid to do i.e. get a rise out of you. as entertaining as the game was last night, it's pretty meaningless in the scheme of things (unless you guys stretch this losing streak out).

[Findog]

nice response, but he's doing what he gets paid to do i.e. get a rise out of you. as entertaining as the game was last night, it's pretty meaningless in the scheme of things (unless you guys stretch this losing streak out).

Okay, he's probably a professional troll, like you said, but I cannot stand this kind of commentary, whether they're talking about my team or not. I wish people could stick to x's and o's and refrain from psychoanalysis.

[peskypesky]

As much as I HATE the Mavs (and I mean, I HATE THEM!!), I would never say that Dirk has no heart. That's just moronic. The dude has tons of heart. And I wouldn't say he "choked" in that last game. I would say he missed a free throw. Everyone does, even the greatest. It's not a sign of no heart and it's not a sign of "choking".

When you watch two heavyweights slugging it out for three hours, giving us NBA fans one of the greatest regular season games I've ever seen, and then say that the loser had "no heart" and "choked", well, I want to vomit.

I do think Nash is the MVP, but only slightly. Going into that fourth quarter, down 15 on the road, Nash had a look on his face that was just scary. He looked like a psycho, like he was going to win that game even if he had to chew his own leg off to do it. And he did. He got the win. And he did everything BUT chew his own leg off to get it.....

[Lp26]

I do think Nash is the MVP, but only slightly. Going into that fourth quarter, down 15 on the road, Nash had a look on his face that was just scary. He looked like a psycho, like he was going to win that game even if he had to chew his own leg off to do it. And he did. He got the win. And he did everything BUT chew his own leg off to get it.....

I know what you mean LOL. He's looked that way a couple of times this year. It's like he knows the window is closing. He looks determined to win to the point where it's scary. That's what it takes though. I still don't think that PHO can overcome their rebounding deficiencies. They don't look that bad defensively. They do hustle and appear to be trying hard on the defensive end.

I think PHO vs. MAVS are fairly evenly matched barring the Mavs learning how to closeout games in pressure situations or Amare learning how to box out (whichever comes first)

I picked the Spurs to come out of the West earlier this year, and i'm sticking to it.

[DNS Error]

When you choke, you give up a big lead usually, or you have the chance to win, but fail to do so. having no heart means you play just going through the motions, or have conceded defeat.

[monosylab1k]

I think i see what the problem is....this guy that wrote the article is using the completely wrong word.

He said that cuz Dirk shriveled up at the end, he played with no heart. Which is absolutely wrong. Despite shriveling up at the end, Dirk played with plenty of heart.

What this writer should have said is that Dirk didn't play with any balls at the end. Because Dirk definitely played a nutless fourth quarter and overtimes.

So it's just a horrible choice of words from this writer. Replace "heart" with "balls" and it makes alot more sense. But seeing how this writer's gay, I can see how he would have made this mistake.

[Spurminator]

There's no difference. They're both part of the lazy bombast of a lazy sports media who favor sensationalism over real journalism, perpetuated by stupid fans who find ridiculing the losers more entertaining than praising the winners.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I think i see what the problem is....this guy that wrote the article is using the completely wrong word.

He said that cuz Dirk shriveled up at the end, he played with no heart. Which is absolutely wrong. Despite shriveling up at the end, Dirk played with plenty of heart.

What this writer should have said is that Dirk didn't play with any balls at the end. Because Dirk definitely played a nutless fourth quarter and overtimes.

So it's just a horrible choice of words from this writer. Replace "heart" with "balls" and it makes alot more sense. But seeing how this writer's gay, I can see how he would have made this mistake.
:lol

I agree with this angle. Not the most politically correct. But definitely. when I was watching the game, he was definitely trying to win for the team. So no heart is uncalled for. The same can be said about Timmy. Timid Timmy. And that's not fair, we all know he takes it upon himself to really win for his team.

But as for that game, the missed free throw showed Dirk had no balls. Nash and Wade types always seem to cut them off in the crunch. And Dirk does suffer from shrinkage during those moments. I hope Vindictive Manu looks to do the same thing to him, if we get to meet Dallas in the playoffs.

[AMAREownsALL]

Choking would be the Mavericks in the NBA Finals last year against Chicago's own Dwyane Wade.

Having no heart would be the Suns after getting blown out by double-digits on back-to-back nights.


The Chicago Sun Times will be very disappointed in you.

EDIT

[J.T.]

Woody Paige owns you. Kill yourself.

[NBA Junkie]

Was Dirk a choker when he beat the Suns with that last second shot in December?

[Trainwreck2100]

Was Dirk a choker when he beat the Suns with that last second shot in December?

No, he was a choker when he dropped 4 straight to the Heat

[NBA Junkie]

No, he was a choker when he dropped 4 straight to the Heat

Maybe. He certainly was clutch at the FT line against the Spurs last May.

[monosylab1k]

Was Dirk a choker when he beat the Suns with that last second shot in December?

Peyton Manning had plenty of clutch moments against the Buccaneers or Jaguars or whoever else for many years. But he was still labeled a major choker until he finally beat the Patriots and won the Super Bowl.

Until he proves it in the Finals, Dirk is a choker.

[NBA Junkie]

Peyton Manning had plenty of clutch moments against the Buccaneers or Jaguars or whoever else for many years. But he was still labeled a major choker until he finally beat the Patriots and won the Super Bowl.

Until he proves it in the Finals, Dirk is a choker.

The same could be said about Steve Nash. He's also had plenty of great regular season games, but what has he ever won aside from the regular season MVP's?

The funny thing is, the Mavs actually have gotten better without Nash. That's a topic that seems to get overlooked in this whole Nash-Nowitzki thing.

[stretch]

The same could be said about Steve Nash. He's also had plenty of great regular season games, but what has he ever won aside from the regular season MVP's?

The funny thing is, the Mavs actually have gotten better without Nash. That's a topic that seems to get overlooked in this whole Nash-Nowitzki thing.
I agree. I really dont get why people are so quick to get on Nash's dick, but will discredit Dirk at any chance possible.

[TonyParkerSux]

The same could be said about Steve Nash. He's also had plenty of great regular season games, but what has he ever won aside from the regular season MVP's?

The funny thing is, the Mavs actually have gotten better without Nash. That's a topic that seems to get overlooked in this whole Nash-Nowitzki thing.

That's a good point that, as you posted, rarely is mentioned when debating Nash's MVP status. The same could be said of the Suns, yet everyone wants to annoint them as the best thing in basketball. When did all O and no D become so fashionable? It used to be that those teams were ridiculed as regular season pretenders. The Suns have done nothing to change that perception, yet now thaey are the perenial favorites to win a ring... :wtf I don't understand it at all.

[monosylab1k]

That's a good point that, as you posted, rarely is mentioned when debating Nash's MVP status. The same could be said of the Suns, yet everyone wants to annoint them as the best thing in basketball. When did all O and no D become so fashionable? It used to be that those teams were ridiculed as regular season pertenders. Tje Suns have done nothing to change that perception, yet now thaey are the perrinial favorites to win a ring... :wtf I don't understand it at all.

Well it's stupid to think that the Suns are contenders....i really dont get it. Mavs, Spurs, or Lakers will all beat them in the playoffs.

But also, when's the last time Nash missed a free throw to put a game away? Or a series? Maybe it's because his team has never been good enough for him to be in that situation....but I don't see a whole lot of choking from Nash when it really counts (and when all he needs to do is make one free throw).

[TonyParkerSux]

That's true about Nash, but his team is never really in position to win many close games. They either blow out a team or get blown out. That Mavs game was an exception, and it seemed to take everything that the Suns had just to finish (as evidenced by their next two blowout losses). I think that as a team the Suns have a losing record in close games, but Nash at least will hit the clutch shot if he needs to.

[monosylab1k]

That's true about Nash, but his team is never really in position to win many close games. They either blow out a team or get blown out. That Mavs game was an exception, and it seemed to take everything that the Suns had just to finish (as evidenced by their next two blowout losses). I think that as a team the Suns have a losing record in close games, but Nash at least will hit the clutch shot if he needs to.

To me, the bottom line is this - who do want taking the final shot to win the game? who are you most confident in.

No doubt the Suns want Nash taking the final shot. Not Amare or Marion or anybody else - they want Nash.

On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of Mavs fans would rather have Jason Terry take the final shot over Dirk. That says alot right there.

But Dirk's stepped up his game every year, so maybe this is the year where he shows consistency in crunch time during the playoffs. It's just very weird with him - sometimes he shows up huge, other times he disappears completely.

[TonyParkerSux]

and that is okay for Dallas and its fans. Dirk shouldn't have to be everything for that squad. If Terry isn't open, Dirk is a much better 2nd option than what any other team has....

I, as a Laker fan, think of Terry as being your "clutch" shooter, but see Dirk as your best player. Terry has ice in his veins.

[mabber]

To me, the bottom line is this - who do want taking the final shot to win the game? who are you most confident in.

No doubt the Suns want Nash taking the final shot. Not Amare or Marion or anybody else - they want Nash.

On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of Mavs fans would rather have Jason Terry take the final shot over Dirk. That says alot right there.

But Dirk's stepped up his game every year, so maybe this is the year where he shows consistency in crunch time during the playoffs. It's just very weird with him - sometimes he shows up huge, other times he disappears completely.

I'd rather have Dirk take the final shot every time but I'm comfortable with JET taking it if need be. Dirk has made many clutch shots (won playoff game vs. Griz and made shot & free throw that sent game 7 vs. Spurs to OT) just in the last year. The media and fans only seem to remember his misses though. I don't think Dirk gets nervous (I think he wants the last shot or free throw(s))...I just think he's taking so many shots/free throws with games on the line that he's obviously failed several times. I saw just about every game Jordan ever played and saw him miss many more game winning/game tying shots than he actually made. I'm not comparing Dirk to MJ but making the point that if you're "the man" on your team you're going to have a lot of failures in those situations just because you have so many opportunities.

[TonyParkerSux]

I'd rather have Dirk take the final shot every time but I'm comfortable with JET taking it if need be. Dirk has made many clutch shots (won playoff game vs. Griz and made shot & free throw that sent game 7 vs. Spurs to OT) just in the last year. The media and fans only seem to remember his misses though. I don't think Dirk gets nervous (I think he wants the last shot or free throw(s))...I just think he's taking so many shots/free throws with games on the line that he's obviously failed several times. I saw just about every game Jordan ever played and saw him miss many more game winning/game tying shots than he actually made. I'm not comparing Dirk to MJ but making the point that if you're "the man" on your team you're going to have a lot of failures in those situations just because you have so many opportunities.

That's also a famous Jordan quote... That he missed alot more game winning shots than he made.

[monosylab1k]

That's also a famous Jordan quote... That he missed alot more game winning shots than he made.

Yeah but I wonder how many game winning free throws he missed.

[TonyParkerSux]

Yeah but I wonder how many game winning free throws he missed.

LOL. My guess would be that he made 98% or better of his game winning free throws....

[mabber]

LOL. My guess would be that he made 98% or better of his game winning free throws....

Yeah, I don't recall him missing many free throws in crunch time.

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, I don't recall him missing many free throws in crunch time.

And I don't want to be too down on Dirk, because he's obviously great. And he's come through in the clutch many times for this team. And this really isn't about him making or missing the final shot. It's about the way that sometimes, and far too often, he disappears at the end of a huge game. There's times where he's been great, yes, but there's been a plethora of times where all of a sudden he can't get open for a shot, where he can't make a wide open shot or free throw, and where he stops being aggressive.

I think that's the difference, and that's why he has the perception of being a choker. Because even if Jordan missed the game winner, he always showed up in every fourth quarter and led his team.

[mabber]

And I don't want to be too down on Dirk, because he's obviously great. And he's come through in the clutch many times for this team. And this really isn't about him making or missing the final shot. It's about the way that sometimes, and far too often, he disappears at the end of a huge game. There's times where he's been great, yes, but there's been a plethora of times where all of a sudden he can't get open for a shot, where he can't make a wide open shot or free throw, and where he stops being aggressive.

I think that's the difference, and that's why he has the perception of being a choker. Because even if Jordan missed the game winner, he always showed up in every fourth quarter and led his team.

I know where you're coming from but I think he's improved this season in regards to showing up(being more aggressive) in the 4th quarter. He's had a lot of really big 4th quarters this season, plus, he's become a much better passer this season so when teams double him he's making better decisions.

Outside of the free throw he missed vs. the Suns (and he missed one vs. the Celtics on Friday), I can't really recall him missing a key free throw this season. Obviously, he blew the one vs. the Heat in the finals but he also made every key free throw vs. the Spurs & Suns prior to the finals.