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Fabbs
03-19-2007, 04:34 PM
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kelley19mar19,0,737381.story?track=mostviewed-homepage

Why aren't the Bush daughters in Iraq?
The president's family has set an appallingly bad example for wartime sacrifice.
By Kitty Kelley, KITTY KELLEY, who wrote "The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty," is working on a biography of Oprah Winfrey.
March 19, 2007


WHEN I WAS a little girl in a convent school, the nuns impressed on me the power of setting a good example. These beloved teachers are no longer around to instruct the president and his family, so I recommend that the Bushes learn from Mark Twain, who said: "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."

My suggestion comes after the White House announcement earlier this month that Jenna Bush, one of the president's twin daughters, is writing a book on her all-expenses-paid trip to Panama, where she worked for a few weeks as an intern for UNICEF. Jenna Bush is quoted as saying she will donate her earnings from her book to UNICEF, a commendable gesture, considering her father's net worth of $20 million. But while the 25-year-old makes the rounds of TV talk shows this fall in a White House limousine, dozens of her contemporaries will be arriving home from Iraq in wooden boxes. In Britain, Prince Harry is insisting on going off to Iraq — even as his country is reducing its troop commitment.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt showed how the power of good example could also be powerfully good politics. When he led the country to sacrifice in World War II, his children enlisted and his wife traveled to military bases to counsel and comfort the families of soldiers. Newsreels showed the president's four sons fighting with the Marines in the Pacific, flying with the Army Air Forces in North Africa and landing with the Navy at Normandy. Soon other public figures followed suit — movie stars (James Stewart and Clark Gable) enlisted and sports heroes (Joe DiMaggio and Hank Greenberg) went off to war.

The contrast between FDR's good example during wartime and that of George W. Bush is stark and sad. The Bush family rallies to the political campaigns of its scions and spends months on the road raising money and shaking hands to put their men into public office. In fact, the public image of their cohesive family — the pearl-choked matriarch surrounded by progeny and springer spaniels — helped cinch more than one presidency for the Bushes. Yet now, when its legacy is most in peril, the family seems to be squandering its good will on a mess of celebridreck.

The president tells us Iraq is a "noble" war, but his wife, his children and his nieces and nephews are not listening. None has enlisted in the armed services, and none seems to be paying attention to the sacrifices of military families. Until Jenna's trip to Panama, the presidential daughters performed community service only when mandated by a court after they were cited for underage drinking. Since then they have surfaced in public during lavish presidential trips with their parents, bar-hopping outings in Georgetown and champagne-popping art openings in New York.

The first lady, so often lauded for her love of literacy, has not been seen in the reading rooms of veterans' hospitals. The president's sister, Doro, publicly picketed Al Gore's last days in the vice president's mansion as he awaited the Supreme Court's decision on the Florida recount of 2000. Yet she has been strangely absent from publicly supporting her brother's war.

The presidential nieces and nephews also have missed the memo on setting a good public example. Ashley Bush — the youngest daughter of the president's brother, Neil, and Neil's ex-wife, Sharon — was presented to Manhattan society at the 52nd Annual International Debutantes Ball at the Waldorf Astoria. Her older sister, Lauren, a runway model, told London's Evening Standard that she is a student ambassador for the United Nations World Food Program, but she would not lobby her uncle for U.S. funds. Her cousin, Billy Bush, chronicles the lives of celebrities on "Access Hollywood."

"Uncle Bucky," as William H.T. Bush is known within the family, is one presidential relative who has profited from the Iraq war. He recently sold all of his shares in Engineered Support Systems Inc. (ESSI), a St. Louis-based company that has flourished under the president's no-bid policy for military contractors. Uncle Bucky told the Los Angeles Times that he would have preferred that ESSI, on whose board he sits, was not involved in Iraq, "but, unfortunately, we live in a troubled world."

The only member of the Bush family to show the strains of our "troubled world" is former President George H.W. Bush, who shed tears recently while addressing the Florida Legislature. The elder Bush was talking about son Jeb's gubernatorial loss in 1994. Jeb, who was later elected, tried to console him. But the sobs of Bush 41 seemed to be more about his older son's "noble" war.

Perhaps the father's sadness sprang from his own experience fighting in what his parents called "Mr. Roosevelt's war" — the good war — the war that saved the world from tyranny. He enlisted at 18 to fly torpedo bombers. He flew 58 missions in two years and returned home a war hero. Since then, no one in his large family has seen fit to follow his sterling example of service and patriotism.

ChumpDumper
03-19-2007, 04:42 PM
We have volunteer armed forces these days. This angle wasn't valid four years ago and it isn't today. There are plenty of other things to beat Bush over the head with. This is just crap.

01Snake
03-19-2007, 04:48 PM
Wow! I can't wait for Kittie's next book on Oprah.

Spurminator
03-19-2007, 04:52 PM
I hear Oprah's family doesn't even subscribe to her magazine.

Nbadan
03-19-2007, 05:02 PM
We have volunteer armed forces these days. This angle wasn't valid four years ago and it isn't today. There are plenty of other things to beat Bush over the head with. This is just crap.

Maybe so, but it sure undermines the wing-nut argument that we are in a multi-generational clash of religious civilizations. Every other large-scale war, save Vietnam, people signed up in droves, but today's young yuppie, including the Bush daughters, are too busy or can't be bothered to make a sacrafice for their nation, fighting a threat they and their families see as real?

ChumpDumper
03-19-2007, 05:08 PM
It doesn't say much at all. I don't understand why anyone expects politicians' kids to follow their parents' beliefs lock-step. Reagan's kids disproved that pretty definitively. It would be a slightly different story if there was a draft, but there isn't one.

johnsmith
03-19-2007, 05:11 PM
Maybe so, but it sure undermines the wing-nut argument that we are in a multi-generational clash of religious civilizations. Every other large-scale war, save Vietnam, people signed up in droves, but today's young yuppie, including the Bush daughters, are too busy or can't be bothered to make a sacrafice for their nation, fighting a threat they and their families see as real?



So go ahead and sign up then.

Nbadan
03-19-2007, 05:13 PM
It's a matter of fact that most kids get their initial political affiliation from their parents. Some may sway in college, but it usually goes back to the parent's political orientation in time...The Reagan kids, like Giuliani's kids were estranged from their father, emotionally and politically.

Nbadan
03-19-2007, 05:15 PM
So go ahead and sign up then.

See, the difference is, I don't think the threat is all it's made out to be.

Fabbs
03-19-2007, 05:19 PM
We have volunteer armed forces these days. This angle wasn't valid four years ago and it isn't today. There are plenty of other things to beat Bush over the head with. This is just crap.
"Do as I say, not as I do" is a bunch of crap? No.

Also, asking once again for continued patience and participation (now what 800? billion and counting and 5 years) while none of your relatives is at risk is not crap?

Patience :elephant as if the civil war is gonna end anytime soon. :depressed
Or even if it does end, as if the objective of *democratic and free* Iraq has been obtained. :downspin:

johnsmith
03-19-2007, 05:21 PM
See, the difference is, I don't think the threat is all it's made out to be.


Run for office and change things then. Contribute financially to the party of your choice that doesn't support the war. Perhaps you could volunteer to assist your favorite candidate in winning the election by volunteering at the SA party headquarters.

Do something would ya?

ChumpDumper
03-19-2007, 05:22 PM
You'll get no argument from me that the Iraq War was poorly conceived, planned and executed. Picking on two kids who had nothing to do with it is useless.

Nbadan
03-19-2007, 05:30 PM
That just it, it's not just 'two kids', its also 4 out of 5 members of one veteran group...


WASHINGTON — Only about one-fifth of 10,000 veteran officers in the Army's Individual Ready Reserve say they're willing to be deployed overseas, an Army survey shows. It suggests souring attitudes within the military toward U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The rest of the officers are either quitting, retiring or being let go for failing to respond to Army questions about their readiness to deploy. The Army provided the survey results to USA TODAY.

The Individual Ready Reserve is one of the last resources the Army taps for manpower. It consists of former active-duty, National Guard and reserve soldiers who have moved into the Ready Reserve and lead virtually civilian lives. They neither drill nor train, although they remain part of the Army.

The Army mailed letters to the officers last year seeking firm commitments. Half of them did not respond, and they will be discharged, says Army spokesman Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty. Of 4,500 who answered the letters, more than half elected to quit or retire from the Army.

Only 2,123 chose to remain and risk mobilization. "We thank these soldiers for their service to their nation," Hilferty says.

The Individual Ready Reserve consists of 87,000 soldiers. The Army letters targeted 10,000 veteran officers in the group who were voluntarily serving beyond their obligated term of service, which is usually eight years. Many were officers planning to remain in the Army until retirement. The Army wanted to know whether they were willing to risk mobilization.

Before 9/11, the Army rarely used the Ready Reserve. However, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have intensified the demand for troops. Since then, about 11,000 of these reservists have been called to active duty. About 6,000 have been deployed, mostly to Iraq or Afghanistan. The rest either received exemptions or their deployment is pending.

More than 200 enlisted soldiers in the Ready Reserve have defied orders to serve and are being discharged, Hilferty says. Others have complained about, resisted or ignored orders to serve. Some officers reported that they didn't realize they were still in the Army, Hilferty says.

Many factors contribute to the low response from Ready Reserve officers, including negative feelings about the war and the Bush administration, says retired Army colonel Jim Martin, an associate professor at Bryn Mawr College in Pennsylvania.

"What it does say in the end is that it's not a very good (reserve) system," Martin says.

Enlisted members of this reserve group are typically soldiers trying to complete an obligated term of service, usually of only a few years.

Hilferty says the Army will begin screening all members of Ready Reserve to make sure they are prepared for deployment.

Linky (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-03-18-mili...)

Fabbs
03-19-2007, 05:32 PM
You'll get no argument from me that the Iraq War was poorly conceived, planned and executed. Picking on two kids who had nothing to do with it is useless.
It's not aimed at the kids to me. It's aimed at Mr. Kick Back in Oval office while Iraq has been blown to crap. He has risked nothing. In fact he has probably gained profits from weapons sales and Haliburton. Wait, who are we kidding he has probably gained profits.

ChumpDumper
03-19-2007, 05:32 PM
That just it, it's not just 'two kids', its also 4 out of 5 members of one veteran group...All 10,000 are Bush family members?

ChumpDumper
03-19-2007, 05:36 PM
It's not aimed at the kids to me. It's aimed at Mr. Kick Back in Oval office while Iraq has been blown to crap. He has risked nothing. In fact he has probably gained profits from weapons sales and Haliburton. Wait, who are we kidding he has probably gained profits.Who are you talking about? Cheney? Bush made enough money off of the taxpayers of Arlington. I'm more willing to chalk Iraq up to Bush's messiah complex than crass greed.

Nbadan
03-19-2007, 05:37 PM
According to the numbers who support this war, there should be no need for the military to lower recruiting standards to meet recruiting obligations. There seems to be a rather sizable segment of American society that says, 'I support this war and it's ideological cause, but war is for heros, and that's not me.'

Spurminator
03-19-2007, 05:41 PM
"Do as I say, not as I do" is a bunch of crap? No.

Bush has said a lot of stupid things but I don't recall him ever saying we should force our families to enlist.

ChumpDumper
03-19-2007, 05:42 PM
I'm certainly aware of the chickenhawks in this country. I don't know if the Bush kids have presented any explict opinion on the war, so again I don't see how this involves them. Maybe one of their opinions is out there on the internets somewhere, but I haven't seen it.

Cant_Be_Faded
03-19-2007, 05:46 PM
chumpdumper you've changed

ChumpDumper
03-19-2007, 05:50 PM
Nah, the Bush kids are spoiled drunks -- there's plenty to talk about them without bringing the military into it if you're into that kind of thing.

Cant_Be_Faded
03-19-2007, 05:52 PM
They deserve a dirty sanchez with an 11 foot dildo

Fabbs
03-19-2007, 06:38 PM
Yes i read the article too quickly the 1st time.
It does try to assign blame to the daughters, when in fact the army is voluntatry at this point.

ChumpDumper
03-19-2007, 06:41 PM
Well, it is an op-ed piece -- just a vapid, amateurish opinion from someone who should have alot more to write about.

scott
03-19-2007, 06:54 PM
Proof the Politics Forum is in the Shitter Forum

Nbadan
03-20-2007, 05:27 PM
Everytime someone post that the PF is in the shitter, we come back with a strong posting day!

:lol

Time for the 'Pro War' Protesters to Put Down the Signs and Pick-Up the M-16s
A. Alexander[/url], March 18th, 2007


Perhaps, there was a time they could have been forgiven. The White House and America's corporate-owned media worked together and made a pretty convincing, albeit false case against Saddam Hussein and Iraq. Indeed, there was a time that the morbid self-proclaimed "pro-war" protesters could have been forgiven for their unyielding love of war. They were, after all, conned into believing Saddam Hussein was somehow linked to 9/11, al Qaeda and posed a threat to America's security. But what is their excuse now, for knowingly and willingly continuing to play cheerleader for and glorifying a war built on lies and deceptions?

Today, the only people who continue to justify the Iraq War are those who, with great mental determination, force themselves to remain willfully ignorant. Not so deep inside their mind, however, just below the surface of their moment-to-moment thought process, these "pro-war" protesters know that the Bush administration conned them into supporting an oil grab and illegal war of aggression. With all their personal will and emotional might these "pro-war" supporters have taken to actively conning themselves into believing the lies once told by the White House - lies they now recite to themselves, as if repeating a Buddhist chant.

Whenever the fact that Saddam did not have ties to 9/11 or al Qaeda; that Iraq did not pose a threat to America's security; that Hussein really wasn't seeking nuclear material in Niger; that the former Iraqi leader did not possess any viable weapons of mass destruction creeps into the minds of the "pro-war" people, they recite the "Smoking Guns in the Form of Mushroom Clouds" chant.

Real ignorance is not an acceptable reason for breaking the law. A young man may not know there are laws against mugging people, but his ignorance certainly doesn't shield him from the consequences of his actions. The willful ignorance of these rather morbid "pro war" protesters certainly should not serve as an excuse for their actions.

All the "pro war" protesters engaging in this game of mental gymnastics should be made to pay the price for their disgusting behavior. As the U.S. military is struggling to keep its ranks filled, recruiters should be dispatched to every brown shirt-like "we love war" rally. All the men and women present at the "pro war" protest and who are between the ages of 18 and 45, should be immediately placed under contract and shipped off to either the Army or Marine Corps' bootcamp. Then, they can really show America exactly how much they truly support a war that is responsible for the death of a half-million Iraqi citizens, 3,200 U.S. soldiers and more than 30,000 seriously maimed military members.

The hour has grown desperate in Iraq. The Bush administration and military are scrambling to find enough "troops" to complete their latest war escalation plan - the time for patronizing patriotism is over. The military doesn't need cheerleaders, they need warriors. It's time for the willfully ignorant to show America how much they really support the Iraq War...it's time for them to put down the sign and pick-up their M-16.

Come on "pro war" protesters, willfully ignorant super-patriots...there is only one way to be forgiven for your egregious and disgusting "pro war" stance: Join the military and go fight in the war you pretend to love!

SRJ
03-21-2007, 02:58 AM
Come on "pro war" protesters, willfully ignorant super-patriots...there is only one way to be forgiven for your egregious and disgusting "pro war" stance: Join the military and go fight in the war you pretend to love!

I guess, by that logic, everyone who loves steak should work at a slaughterhouse.

boutons_
03-21-2007, 09:51 AM
No at all, if you like meat, you "support" it by buying it and eating it, so the meat-suppliers make enough money to keep supplying you with meat.

If you love pre-emptive, unnecessary war, you should also "buy" it by at least paying taxes to hire mercenaries to go fight it for you (but the dubya govt hasn't asked anybody to pay for Iraq) or paying for it with your own military service.

I bet if dubya had said "I'm going to invade Iraq. It's going to cost $1T+, so I'm raising federal taxes, progressively, across the board, cancelling the $800B cuts in estate taxes, and imposting import tariffs on oil imported from the M/E to drive down demand", then there would no Iraq war.

ie, if dubya had asked the all of US, esp the oilcos who benefit most from "victory" in Iraq, to pay for the Iraq war (not just the 30K dead and injured), there would be no war.

So you pro-war motherfuckers are a bunch of wimpy, chickenshit fakers unless you go fight the war you voted for.

01Snake
03-21-2007, 10:03 AM
Another incoherent post by Croutons.

clambake
03-21-2007, 10:41 AM
Boutons, you're giving bush too much credit. Don't you remember, that oaf and his minions thought and characterized this war as a "cakewalk". He couldn't possibly have invisioned the magnitude of his ignorance regarding the future.

01Snake
03-21-2007, 10:47 AM
Boutons, you're giving bush too much credit. Don't you remember, that oaf and his minions thought and characterized this war as a "cakewalk". He couldn't possibly have invisioned the magnitude of his ignorance regarding the future.


The actual war was a cakewalk. The insurgency, well, thats another story.

clambake
03-21-2007, 11:04 AM
The war didn't start until the cakewalk ended.