Execution Tonight

[MannyIsGod]

We've been over this 3473840383098 times, and I still don't see how we can have state sanctioned killing. Especialy of someone who commited the crime at 18.


Exclusive: Convicted killer speaks out the night before his execution
Web Posted: 11/17/2004 11:56 PM CST

Brooke Richie
KENS 5 Eyewitness News


Twenty years ago, he murdered a father of two and Thursday night he is set to die for his crime. Hours before his execution, Troy Kunkle sat down to speak for the first and only time since his arrest.


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More coverage
Video: Conversation with a killer

Kunkle has spent more than 7,000 nights on death row, but Wednesday will be his last. On Wednesday, he gave a glimpse into the mind of a murderer before his execution.

Kunkle says he has never stopped fighting for a chance at life, even after spending 19 years on death row.

"Hope is really something that's kept me going the last 20 years," Kunkle said. "Somebody who doesn't have hope I guess wants to die."

On the night of August 12, 1984, Kunkle, then 18, wanted to kill. Drunk and high, the former Roosevelt High School student and four friends drove to Corpus Christi. Kunkle robbed 31-year-old Stephen Horton of $13 and put a bullet in his head.

He gained infamy afterwards as "the killer with no remorse," after reciting lyrics from the song "No Remorse" by Metallica after he committed murder.

Asking him if he has remorse now, Kunkle says, is saying that he didn't have remorse then.

"Well to be honest with you, it was basically a situation where a juvenile mistake made with juvenile peer pressure," Kunkle said.

It's that argument Kunkle's defense attorney made after his conviction. They say the jury never had a chance to consider his troubled childhood with abusive and mentally ill parents.

He doesn't believe he was given a fair trial.

"Honestly, no I don't, really," he said.

Right now, Kunkle's hope comes from experience. This will be his second date with death. In July, the U.S. Supreme Court issued an eleventh-hour stay of execution.

But that stay was lifted in October, and Kunkle is now out of appeals.

As he looks toward the death chamber, he reflects on an adult life spend entirely behind bars.

"I have to look at myself in the mirror every day. I have to look at my mother's tears when she comes to visit," Kunkle said. "There's nothing about this to be proud of. Really, it's a shame and embarrassment, to be honest with you."

And for the inmate who says he's reformed and found God he knows what his final thought will be.

"I'm hoping that I will be forgiven," Kunkle said.

The Horton family says they will not attend the execution, but say it is a just price and that they have no remorse.

[1369]

He killed a man in cold blood, and the punishment for that is his own life.

The death penalty is a punishment, not a deterrant. I have never quite understood the logic in the thinking that the death penalty is a deterrant to crime. I strongly believe that in certain cases the death penalty is right and justified as a sentance for certain crimes.

Manny, I know you feel strongly that there should not be a death penalty and it is not likely othat you will ever change your mind.

I will have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on this subject.

[2pac]

My guess is that you knew it was wrong to steal $13 and bust a cap in a stranger while singing "No Remorse" by Metallica.

Dude still has no remorse.

[gophergeorge]

The Lord will greet him with open arms....

[Nbadan]

My only problem with the state sanctioned killing is that it is disproportionaly sentenced to the mentally ill, poor, and especially minorities. Why is it rich people who can afford their own attorneys rarely get sentenced to die? Why is Scott Peterson not likely to die for murdering his wife Casey?

[exstatic]

Uh, you may get a few sympathy hits for the 13 or 14 YO, but 18 is WELL old enough to know what you're doing. I'm not sure there is a deterrent in CP, but it is a well documented fact that if executed, the average murderer never kills again. That can't be said about parolees.

[whottt]

Seems like a guy that definitely needs his head blown off to me...what's the problem Manny? It's only okay for people to kill if it isn't motivated by revenge?

How about the state just apologize to him after it kills him and then you can forgive the state like you did him...you don't seem like you are against murder to me...only against the killing of murderers.

[Nbadan]

The Lord will greet him with open arms....

That's deep GG.

[Nbadan]

What right does he has to keep his life since he felt qualified to take the life of another?

So you do believe in a women right to choice after all. Wow, who would have guessed?

[MannyIsGod]

How about the state just apologize to him after it kills him and then you can forgive the state like you did him...you don't seem like you are against murder to me...only against the killing of murderers.

Thanks for reading what I put and then deciding to put a whole new spin on things.

That's the way you discuss things around here, and I'm fucking sick of it. Why don't you stick to what I said and if there is anything I didn't make clear ask me about it instead of trying to put an idiotic stance in my mouth.

I'm against all executions by the government. I never said I sanctioned murder. In fact I'm for tougher conditions in prison, but you woudln't know that because you don't take the time to engage in a discussion on issue. You simply choose to grandstand and try to insinuate what I'm thinking.

[exstatic]

That's why I never call them Pro-Life, Dan. They insist that the crack or fetal alcohol baby be born, live a hopeless, drug addled 12-20 year existance, commit some heinous crime, then be executed by the state. That's OK by them.

[bigzak25]

another one bites the dust.... :smokin

[2pac]

Why is it rich people who can afford their own attorneys rarely get sentenced to die?
Rich = money
money = good attorneys
good attorneys = lighter sentence, if there is even a conviction

Thats why


Why is Scott Peterson not likely to die for murdering his wife Casey?

Its not likely, because he was never married to anyone named Casey.

[2pac]

So you do believe in a women right to choice after all. Wow, who would have guessed?

That would work, if the fetus has been a cold-blooded murderer.

[Useruser666]

I honestly don't know if the death penalty is right. I do believe in some cases that it is appropriate. You can try and justify not using it on every case. This guy was only 18, this guy was high, this guy was under peer pressure.These are just a handful of examples. But when it comes down to it, he KILLED some one. The guy he killed didn't have a chance to challenge his execution in the courts. He had no chance to defend himself. It wouldn't matter if that victim was drunk, high, or 13 years old. He killed him no matter the circumstances. Is that fair?

[bigzak25]

in this case, two wrongs make a right.

[2pac]

Thanks for reading what I put and then deciding to put a whole new spin on things.

That's the way you discuss things around here, and I'm fucking sick of it. Why don't you stick to what I said and if there is anything I didn't make clear ask me about it instead of trying to put an idiotic stance in my mouth.

I'm against all executions by the government. I never said I sanctioned murder. In fact I'm for tougher conditions in prison, but you woudln't know that because you don't take the time to engage in a discussion on issue. You simply choose to grandstand and try to insinuate what I'm thinking.
So if we caught Osama, we shouldn't kill him?

What should we do with him?

[gophergeorge]

Sometimes you need to do what is RIGHT, not what is "fair".... Life is not fair.

[Nbadan]

That would work, if the fetus has been a cold-blooded murderer.

So, you do believe in abortion if the mothers life is in danger?

[Useruser666]

So, you do believe in abortion if the mothers life is in danger?

I don't think you can have black and white where there is only gray.

[Nbadan]

So if we caught Osama, we shouldn't kill him?

What should we do with him?

We will never catch Osama, but if we did I think we should keep him around to expose his 'so-called' network. We executed Tim McVey way to quickly.

[Nbadan]

I don't think you can have black and white where there is only gray.

So your pro-choice?

[MannyIsGod]

So if we caught Osama, we shouldn't kill him?

What should we do with him?

After a trial, stick him in a hole for the rest of his life.

[gophergeorge]

So your pro-choice?


It is NOT pro-"choice".... It is Pro-Baby Killing....

[whottt]

So you do believe in a women right to choice after all. Wow, who would have guessed?


Um, I am pro choice(to an extent).

I advocate stem cell research.

I'm also very environmentally concerned...this is probably my normal number 1 concern.

Just not now.

And this murderer is pretty much indefensible...anyone who could kill a man for 13 dollars...doesn't need to be a part of the general population...and why should the taxpayers pay for his life...that money would be better served taking care of the family of the man he murdered.

And don't blame this on drugs either...I've done every drug known to mankind in just about every way it is possible to do them...and there's not one that would just make me go up and kill an innocent man for money.

[exstatic]

I actuyally agree with Manny in this case. His death would serve his cause, so in this case, throw him in a hole to be forgotten.

[MannyIsGod]

BTW, Whott, since you brought up the taxpayer arguement. The money spent on the appeals process is more than what we would have spent on having him in prison for life.

[whottt]

Thanks for reading what I put and then deciding to put a whole new spin on things.

That's the way you discuss things around here, and I'm fucking sick of it. Why don't you stick to what I said and if there is anything I didn't make clear ask me about it instead of trying to put an idiotic stance in my mouth.

I'm against all executions by the government. I never said I sanctioned murder. In fact I'm for tougher conditions in prison, but you woudln't know that because you don't take the time to engage in a discussion on issue. You simply choose to grandstand and try to insinuate what I'm thinking.


How the fuck can you use this guy as an example of why the death penatly is wrong?

Bad guy to use as an example...and I question your judgement.

What is the point of keeping this guy alive? Why in the fuck should tax dollars be used to support this man? He views a man's life as being worth less than 13 dollars.

You want to make an anti death penatly argument go right ahead...just don't do it while you are posting a case that justifies the death penalty more than any case I have seen in a while.

[whottt]

BTW, Whott, since you brought up the taxpayer arguement. The money spent on the appeals process is more than what we would have spent on having him in prison for life.

Pretty good argument for eliminating the appeals process...at least in ironclad cases.

[Useruser666]

So your pro-choice?

#1 I doubt that I would find myself in a situation that I fathered a baby that was not wanted or I myself couldn't take care of.

#2 I do not advocate abortion. I believe that there are much more sensible means to prevent one's self from having to choose abortion as an option.

#3 I do not expect everyone else, especialy women to follow what I believe in.

#4 I doubt there is one answer for this dilemma and what may work for some may not work for others.

I do not fit in the categories you offer.

[Spurminator]

CP is not an issue I'm very passionate about... mainly because I have a difficult time defending criminals, particularly ones who have committed crimes that have warranted a death row sentence.

But I have several fundamental problems with the death penalty.

For one thing, it is an irreversable component of a flawed judicial system. Unless we can prove the integrity of a jury's decision 100%, which we can never do, there is always the chance we are executing an innocent person. And to me, that's not worth the deaths of a thousand serial killers.

Furthermore, except in the rarest of circumstances, I don't believe that we should be determining whether someone has the right to live. Regardless of what they've done.

At it's core, the death penalty is simply state-sanctioned vengeance. Is it natural for victims' families to want to see the criminal die? Absolutely. But I don't think emotions should dictate Law. If the criminal is seen as a danger to society, keeping him locked up for life should be sufficient. Killing him only serves to satiate a devastated family (who still will never have the victim back), and a bloodthirsty public that likes to see the bad guy get his Just Desserts. But really, does killing Troy Kunkle, particularly 20 years after the fact, improve society in any way?

There are obvious exceptions... Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden... where I feel CP is justified, but I feel that, particularly in Texas, the Death Penalty is FAR overutilized.

[MannyIsGod]

No such thing as an ironclad case.

I'm using this because of his age.

No such thing as an ironclad case.

[Useruser666]

Spurm, what about cases where the killer confesses?

[whottt]

No such thing as an ironclad case.

I'm using this because of his age.

No such thing as an ironclad case.

I'd say that in most cases a confession with witness corroboration pretty much qualifies as an ironclad case.

[ClintSquint]

I say we go back to having prisoners work during their imprisonment and have them re-pave some roads instead of paying guys $40 an hour to wear an orange vest.

[Spurminator]

Spurm, what about cases where the killer confesses?

Lock him up. If he confesses, it shows that there is potential for remorse, and even better, change.

[1369]

At it's core, the death penalty is simply state-sanctioned vengeance.

I disagree. The death penalty is not there to appease society, the victim's family, or anyone else for that matter.

It is a punishment for a crime committed. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Spurminator]

The purpose of punishment should be to reform.

Otherwise, it IS vengeance.

[Useruser666]

Lock him up. If he confesses, it shows that there is potential for remorse, and even better, change.

Well, what if says he will kill again? If he enjoys it? Do you believe there are any cases that justify CP?(not of the ones you listed)

[Spurminator]

Well, what if says he will kill again? If he enjoys it?

Then keep him locked up and away from other prisoners.


Do you believe there are any cases that justify CP?

I think it should be reserved for the genocidal.

[Useruser666]

Ok, Spurm. Good points as always.

[Marcus Bryant]

While I have some serious reservations about the death penalty, it's kind of hard to work up a ton of emotion over someone who opted to kill in a death penalty state.

[1369]

The purpose of punishment should be to reform.

Otherwise, it IS vengeance.

Again, I disagree.

If someone is sentenced to life without parole, the law has deemed that there is no hope of salvaging this person to where he/she can return to society. Is that nothing more than a prolonged death sentence?

Also, the purpose of punishment is just that, to punish someone for something that they did wrong. I will agree that the punishment should secondarily cause someone to not want to repeat the offense (And as the father of a two year-old, I'm learning that everyday), but the primary drive of punishment is penalty for wrongs committed.

[Marcus Bryant]

Punishment is vengeance at some level.

[1369]

Punishment is vengeance at some level.

Without a doubt it is Marcus.

But to try and paint CP as an emotional revenge response as Spurminator puts it
Killing him only serves to satiate a devastated family (who still will never have the victim back), and a bloodthirsty public I think is incorrect.

[Spurminator]

If someone is sentenced to life without parole, the law has deemed that there is no hope of salvaging this person to where he/she can return to society. Is that nothing more than a prolonged death sentence?

I don't think so. As long as this person is alive, there is the opportunity to change. He still has an opportunity to have a positive impact on someone, however small.


Also, the purpose of punishment is just that, to punish someone for something that they did wrong.

With all due respect, isn't this like saying the purpose of shooting a basketball is to shoot a basketball? There has to be a goal in mind... Aren't penalties meant to teach a lesson? What lesson can be taught to someone who is dead? I'd sooner advocate some form of torture as punishment than I would the death penalty.

I think we probably have fundamental philosophical differences of opinion on the virtue of "punishment."

[bigzak25]

No such thing as an ironclad case.



until someone you know or love is murdered in cold blood.....God forbid.

[Spurminator]

until someone you know or love is murdered in cold blood.....God forbid.

Being a relative or friend of a victim doesn't make you any more able to determine guilt... In fact, the emotional impact probably makes you LESS able.

[Useruser666]

If I saw some one kill my father right in fromt of me and they got out of prison. I would find it very hard not to hunt them down. The old Sunday School question, "Why is there a hell if God forgives all?"

[ChumpDumper]

Vengeance has been included as a reason for the death penalty in more than one high court decision, so it's more or less part of our legal system.

[Waits for MB's gleeful reponse saying he's ignoring me and that my post agreeing with his is crap]

[whottt]

I'm not a relative or a friend...this guy needs to be smoked.

Fuck him getting a chance to rehabilitate...he murdered a man for absolutely no reason and ruined the life of that man's family....you want to be sensitive to someone be sensitive to the pain and anguish they will go through for the rest of their lives over this dickheads actions.

I can just imagine the warm feeling his family would get stopping by the jail to see old Troy kicked bakc in the cot reading a book and talking about how he didn't get a fair trial...

How about the fact that he didn't give the man he murdered a chance to see his kids grow up....


13 dollars? I'm sure the guy would have probably given him the 13 dollars to keep from being shot in the head.

This fucker was a joy killer. It's not real hard to live life without killing someone...you have to actively be wanting to do it in most cases...forget vengeance...what has this man done to deserve the chance to be a party of society or have society pay for his life..


Smoke this reject.

[Useruser666]

Spurm, what about an, "equal and opposite reaction"?

[ClintSquint]

Hang 'em high.

[Marcus Bryant]

How about the notion that if life is so precious we must protect it broadly at conception, then we should also be so inclined in other situations?

[Spurminator]

Spurm, what about an, "equal and opposite reaction"?

I don't follow...

[Nbadan]

Waits for MB's gleeful reponse saying he's ignoring me and that my post agreeing with his is crap]

:lmao

[Useruser666]

I don't follow...

Punishment that suits the crime. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[Duff McCartney]

Unless we can prove the integrity of a jury's decision 100%, which we can never do, there is always the chance we are executing an innocent person. And to me, that's not worth the deaths of a thousand serial killers.

"The first soap was made from the ashes of heroes, like the first monkey shot into space. Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing."

[whottt]

How about the notion that if life is so precious we must protect it broadly at conception, then we should also be so inclined in other situations?


Um this guy is a good argument for abortion as well as the death penalty. Some people have no business being parents and his parents sound like a prime example of that.

So perhaps if people weren't religiously guilt tripped into having and raising children they are incapable of caring for this sort of thing would happen less often.

[Spurminator]

Punishment that suits the crime. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Well, as one who is against Capital Punishment, I would respond by saying "Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right."

[Useruser666]

Well, as one who is against Capital Punishment, I would respond by saying "Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right."

I understand what you are saying. I was looking at it from the point of, if convicted, that CP was the reaction for the crime. It was not a decision to be made be the justice system, it was the end of a series of events which began with the crime being commited. The justice system in this case, simply provides the reaction. This may not be applicable to other types of crimes.

[whottt]

He killed a man for absolutely no reason...he will be executed for doing that.

I don't see that as a case of 2 wrongs. I see that as a case of 1 wrong and 1 right.

I see that as a man guilty of the ultimate crime being eliminated from the gene pool and not being allowed to do so again. I see that as the government performing one of it's true functions...to protect the population. And hey, lots of guys in prison continue to be murderers because they have reached a point of no pentalty...some of those guys in prison deserve better than to be locked up with a guy who would murder someone for 13 dollars.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure whottt, but there is a "moral" objection to the death penalty, as well as what I would call a "political" one. The moral one is basically what I outlined and of course is somewhat reliant on faith. The political one is somewhat basic: do we want to give the government the power to kill its own citizens?

[Duff McCartney]

I see that as a man guilty of the ultimate crime being eliminated from the gene pool and not being allowed to do so again.

Gene pool? What does this have to do with his genes?

[Duff McCartney]

The political one is somewhat basic: do we want to give the government the power to kill its own citizens?

The government doesn't kill it's own people...people kill it's own people. Thats why they have jurys.

[ChumpDumper]

Kind of an "eye for an eye" argument. It's tricky, though -- if you throw in all the other Christian trains of thought like redemption and forgiveness. Are these things even truly possible with a guy like this? If so, the only thing we can really hang our hats on is vengeance and punishment in regards to CP. If not, I guess we don't kill enough people then.

[Marcus Bryant]

The government doesn't kill it's own people...people kill it's own people. Thats why they have jurys.

Which body enforces that judgment? Which body sets the scale and scope of potential punishment?

[Spurminator]

I see that as a man guilty of the ultimate crime being eliminated from the gene pool and not being allowed to do so again.

Which can also be accomplished by locking him up, and giving him the opportunity to CHOOSE not to do so again.


I see that as the government performing one of it's true functions...to protect the population.

Also accomplished by locking him up.


And hey, lots of guys in prison continue to be murderers because they have reached a point of no pentalty

Well, if they're on Death Row they have reached that point... But not if they have a chance of parole, or a better cell, or (if I had my way) avoiding (edit) corporal punishment...

[Spurminator]

I was looking at it from the point of, if convicted, that CP was the reaction for the crime. It was not a decision to be made be the justice system, it was the end of a series of events which began with the crime being commited. The justice system in this case, simply provides the reaction.

Yes, but it's not a natural reaction. The government steps in, separates the criminal from the society and does what it can to reform the criminal... or keep him away from society forever.

[Duff McCartney]

Which body enforces that judgement? Which body sets the scale and scope of potential punishment?

They enforce the judgment...but they don't judge. That's for a jury to do.

[Spurminator]

The government has to facilitate the jury's decision. Otherwise, we have Salem.

[Marcus Bryant]

Doesn't matter. The government certainly directly kills citizens.

[whottt]

Gene pool? What does this have to do with his genes?

Darwinism at it's finest, the reason your skin tone allows you to survive in hot environemnts better than mine...because he was caught at 18 he won't live to pass on his fucked up genes or the biocultural, abusive, non respect for other living things evolution his parents passed on to him.

[whottt]

LMAO this debate is a perfect example of why I have never totally embraced one party over the other...

On the one hand you have the right...pro-life...yet they are also pro death penalty, and most will fight wars like there is no tomorrow.

On the otherhand you have the left...pro-choice, yet raise hell over people killing animals, and forgive murderers.



Ahh the contradiction...but even worse I see an almost homicidal linear quality to my feelings on these issues...but hey, consistency should count for something.

[Useruser666]

Yes, but it's not a natural reaction. The government steps in, separates the criminal from the society and does what it can to reform the criminal... or keep him away from society forever.

Why would it not be a natural reaction? What if some one who murders a person is sent to jail and kills a guard? Should he be put to death then?

[Spurminator]

If there was a viable alternative to eliminating a pregnancy while keeping the fetus alive, I would be in favor of banning abortion. Until then, however, I am pro-choice.

And if a criminal's mere existance threatens society, then I am in favor of killing him.

[Useruser666]

And if a criminal's mere existance threatens society, then I am in favor of killing him.

But who is to determine that? A jury?

[Spurminator]

Why would it not be a natural reaction?

Why would it be? Are you talking about science or evolution? Predestination? I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. The government is in place to prevent some "natural reactions" from happening for the greater good of society.


What if some one who murders a person is sent to jail and kills a guard? Should he be put to death then?

No, he should be beaten severely and put under tighter restraints... along with having his sentence increased, if applicable.

[Spurminator]

But who is to determine that? A jury?

It was a rhetorical statement... you can't really determine that. Chances are, if he's locked up tight enough, he's not threatening society.

Unless he has magic witch powers...

[whottt]

Why would it be? Are you talking about science or evolution? Predestination? I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. The government is in place to prevent some "natural reactions" from happening for the greater good of society.



No, he should be beaten severely and put under tighter restraints... along with having his sentence increased, if applicable.

And that's your idea of a more humane solution? 40 years of torture? Death seems more kind.

I mean we are all going to die anyway...not all of us are going to be tortured and imprisoned until we die.

[Useruser666]

It was a rhetorical statement... you can't really determine that. Chances are, if he's locked up tight enough, he's not threatening society.

Unless he has magic witch powers...

....but then we would have Salem! :lol

[Spurminator]

And that's your idea of a more humane solution? 40 years of torture? Death seems more kind.

That should be up to the prisoner. If death is better, he can kill himself.

Give them all a noose.


40 years of torture?

A bit of an overstatement... Such punishment would only be applied as a result of wrongdoing.

[Duff McCartney]

Darwinism at it's finest, the reason your skin tone allows you to survive in hot environemnts better than mine...because he was caught at 18 he won't live to pass on his fucked up genes or the biocultural, abusive, non respect for other living things evolution his parents passed on to him.

Whoa man...you're a dumbass if you think things like murder are passed on to somebody through their genes.

[exstatic]

...and I'd say the odds in his environment are probably 50/50 that at 18, he HAS passed on his genes.

[whottt]

Kind of an "eye for an eye" argument. It's tricky, though -- if you throw in all the other Christian trains of thought like redemption and forgiveness. Are these things even truly possible with a guy like this? If so, the only thing we can really hang our hats on is vengeance and punishment in regards to CP. If not, I guess we don't kill enough people then.


"An eye for an eye" isn't a true christain train of thought...it's a primary creed of the Torah and the Koran and only appears in the Torah portion of the bible...Christ never advocated an eye for an eye. He preached forgiveness, that was the major tenet of his preaching.



And what that "an eye for an eye" train of thought gets you is the Palestinian Israeli conflict.

Christianity preaches forgiveness, that's what separates it from both Judaism and Islam...at the same time...I don't think Christianity advocates total stupidity...and sooner or later the line has to be drawn...at some point a civilization has to step in and protect it's own citizens.

[Spurminator]

I don't think Christianity advocates total stupidity...and sooner or later the line has to be drawn...at some point a civilization has to step in and protect it's own citizens.

And that brings us back to Protection vs. Vengeance.

[ChumpDumper]

"An eye for an eye" isn't a true christain train of thought...it's a primary creed of the Torah and the Koran and only appears in the Torah portion of the bible...Christ never advocated an eye for an eye. He preached forgiveness, that was the major tenet of his preaching.Both still in the bible and both used to promote one view or the other. I didn't say it made sense.
sooner or later the line has to be drawn...at some point a civilization has to step in and protect it's own citizens.That line moves a lot -- as long as we have a democracy and a common law system it will continue to do so.

[CosmicCowboy]

good riddance.

the really sick part is that it has taken 19 years to finally get to this point.

[atlfan25]

Execution Tonight
wish i could be there :hat


too bad its not one of these :hang

[ChumpDumper]

I'm all for public executions. If we're going to kill guys and say it's a deterrent, let's go all the way.

[whottt]

Whoa man...you're a dumbass if you think things like murder are passed on to somebody through their genes.

Now why would you say that? That's a fucking stupid statement...you don't think someone could be genetically predisposed to murder? To mental conditions that would make someone capable of murder with no remorse?

You're wrong, there are no gurantees that will happen..but there's a damn good gurantee for assuring it won't happen. ...and other times...


biocultural, abusive, non respect for other living things evolution his parents passed on to him.

it's a family thing.

Don't ride a tricycle on a racecar track.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.metaphor.dk/guillotine/Media/Plast.jpg

I'm with ChumpDumper on this one...

[JoeChalupa]

How the heck does one order his last meal and can one really enjoy it knowing that after you've stuffed your face and feel that familiar sleepy feeling after eating a great meal that it'll be the last nap you'll ever take?

I'd ask for beans so that I can let one rip just before I go.

[Useruser666]

How the heck does one order his last meal and can one really enjoy it knowing that after you've stuffed your face and feel that familiar sleepy feeling after eating a great meal that it'll be the last nap you'll ever take?

I'd ask for beans so that I can let one rip just before I go.

Get a big steak and ask for it WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL DONE!!! You'll live longer that way.

[Shelly]

How the heck does one order his last meal and can one really enjoy it knowing that after you've stuffed your face and feel that familiar sleepy feeling after eating a great meal that it'll be the last nap you'll ever take?

I'd ask for beans so that I can let one rip just before I go.

All together now...

10, 20, 30, 40, 50 a more
Death row guy let a fart in the makeshift morgue
80 men died trying to hold their breath
Death row guy let another and killed the rest.

[JoeChalupa]

Get a big steak and ask for it WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL DONE!!! You'll live longer that way.

Yes, and could you trim the fat please.

[pooh]

It would be neat if they would show an actual execution.

[Duff McCartney]

Now why would you say that? That's a fucking stupid statement...you don't think someone could be genetically predisposed to murder? To mental conditions that would make someone capable of murder with no remorse?

No I don't think they are. But I don't think there are mental conditions that are inheritable that would cause someone to murder a person.

[bigzak25]

But I don't think there are mental conditions that are inheritable that would cause someone to murder a person.


it's a good question. i think crazy could be genetic.

[Hook Dem]

No I don't think they are. But I don't think there are mental conditions that are inheritable that would cause someone to murder a person.
Ever heard of Bi-polar Duff?

[exstatic]

There are a lot of crazy people who never kill anyone. I doubt if whottt or Dan ever have. In fact, if truly crazy, you can't be convicted. Murder requires intent and knowledge of your actions. Murder is not inherited.

[whottt]

No I don't think they are. But I don't think there are mental conditions that are inheritable that would cause someone to murder a person.


You're wrong, people can be predisposed to schizophrenia, dementia, antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, depression..you name it...there is even substantial evidence that the tendency for mass murder is a genetically inherited trait...

Antisocial personality disorder, otherwise known as a sociopath, and my bet as to what this murderer is, is a genetic trait...one that makes the afflicted person pretty much incapable of feeling anything for another human being...he might kill someone, he might not, but either way it probably won't be because of what anyone did to him...and he won't feel any guilt about it one way or the other.

[whottt]

There are a lot of crazy people who never kill anyone. I doubt if whottt or Dan ever have. In fact, if truly crazy, you can't be convicted. Murder requires intent and knowledge of your actions. Murder is not inherited.

That's wrong, there are lots of people that were brought up well, they were treated well by others, and they still just went out and murdered people...


There are all kinds of crazy, and the criminal mind, the mind of serial killers etc, their brain chemistry has been scientifically proven to be different from the mind of a normal human being nearly 100% of the time. How do you think it gets that way? From their parents beating them? From people being mean to them? What if that isn't in their past?

Just because their immediate family may not suffer those traits doesn't mean it's not in their gene pool.

[Jekka]

Well this thread is full of a bunch of bullshit when it comes to mental disorders.

Anyhow, he was granted a stay. And it's not the first. I'm happy about that.

[Kori Ellis]

For those against the death penalty, I have a question ... or more like a scenario.

I know someone that when he was 22-years-old, his mother was kidnapped, raped anally and vaginally repeatedly, and then the killer stuck a knife in her pelvic area and slit her wide open all the way up to her throat -- basically gutting her out, then left her body in a ditch.

The lady left behind the 22-year-old son, a 10-year-old daughter, and a husband of 30 years.

If she was your mom, death penalty or rehab for the killer?

[whottt]

Well Kori, he might turn out to be a good person. Let him live! It's only cold blooded murder, mutilation and violation of another human being. It's not like it's a huge ordeal. That brutal murderer needs compassion and understanding...he should be given other chances to slice people to bits because he is after all a confused murderer.

Remember...the guilty always deserve forgiveness...those that adhere to the rules of society don't.

[Shelly]

God, that's awful, Kori.

I think the same thing should be done to the killer.

[AlamoSpursFan]

I think they should lock these sickos in a room with their victims family members and whatever happens happens.

If there is anything left of the freak after the family gets done with him, lock him up and throw away the key.

[SpursWoman]

God, that's awful, Kori.

I think the same thing should be done to the killer.



Ditto. :(

[bigzak25]

no only would he deserve to die, but he deserves his toe/finger nails ripped out...sodomy with a macheti, and electric shock to the his nuts....after a few weeks of this....i suppose they could stick the needle in him.

[Useruser666]

Honest answer please.

Does anyone think that the son would be convicted if the killer got out and the son killed him?

[gophergeorge]

Honest answer please.

Does anyone think that the son would be convicted if the killer got out and the son killed him?


Depends on where the trial takes place...

Texas - Not Guilty

California - Guilty

[Useruser666]

Depends on where the trial takes place...

Texas - Not Guilty

California - Guilty

I didn't say he was a celebrity! :lol

[JoeChalupa]

Mistakes do happen and I heard recently that some dude on death row after something like 15 years or so was just released because.....he was innocent!

Oh well, I guess a "oops, we're sorry" would've sufficed to his family?



yeah, I know....what about the victims family!!??!??

I understand that but if he is innocent than what fault is it of his?

[Kori Ellis]

For the record, in the scenario I told above, the killer was never caught, convicted or put to death because he killed himself by stepping in front of a train.

[bigzak25]

fantastic. too quick though.

[Useruser666]

fantastic. too quick though.

Maybe the train was the kind that slowly stop and then go back and forth through an intersection. :lol

[2pac]

Yes they deserve to die, and I hope they burn in hell! [/Samuel L Jackson in A Time To Kill]

[Spurminator]

It's certainly not easy, but those of us who believe that capital punishment is fundamentally wrong would still have to say that killing the monster would simply compound the tragedy. Lock him away and let him rot in a cell. Once his fellow prisoners find out what he did, they would probably repay him in kind (see Jeffrey Dahmer).

Clearly he has serious mental issues... wouldn't it be better to try and determine what caused such a disregard for humanity?

That said, I wouldn't have shed a tear if he were executed. Certainly, my heart is in favor of seeing assholes like that pay dearly for their crimes... but my mind tells me it still isn't right.

[bigzak25]

trust your heart. :smokin

[Spurminator]

Both the heart and mind can be misleading.

[Useruser666]

Spurm, I see where you're coming from. I do believe there is a place for CP. It's not a perfect system, and it is a dificult choice, but I feel a necessary component of our society.