Anti-Semitic?

[Kori Ellis]

I was going to post this elsewhere, but think it sort of belongs here.

Obviously, he said "shut the fuck up, you fag" so he should have gotten in trouble.

But my question is do you consider his comments about Jewish people "anti-semitic"? Is saying that jews are crafy or that they dominate business anti-semitic to you?

Ex-NBA star's anti-Semitic slurs draw suspension

Associate Press

Former NBA All-Star Micheal Ray Richardson appeared to be getting his life back on track after his league suspension in 1986 for drug use. He was coaching in the Continental Basketball Association and had led his team, the Albany Patroons, to the playoffs. But as they say: What goes up, must come down.

The Patroons have suspended Richardson for the rest of the CBA championship series for comments made to the Albany Times Union on Tuesday.

Before Tuesdays game against the Yakima Sun Kings, Richardson made anti-Semitic comments to two reporters in his office when discussing the contract general manager Jim Coyne had offered him Monday to coach his team in the CBA and USBL.

"I've got big-time lawyers," Richardson said, according to the Times Union. "I've got big-time Jew lawyers."

When told by the reporters that the comment could be offensive to people because it plays to the stereotype that Jews are crafty and shrewd, he responded with, "Are you kidding me? They are. They've got the best security system in the world. Have you ever been to an airport in Tel Aviv? They're real crafty. Listen, they are hated all over the world, so they've got to be crafty."

And he continued, "They got a lot of power in this world, you know what I mean?" he said. "Which I think is great. I don't think there's nothing wrong with it. If you look in most professional sports, they're run by Jewish people. If you look at a lot of most successful corporations and stuff, more businesses, they're run by Jewish. It's not a knock, but they are some crafty people."

And the offensive remarks didn't stop there.

According to the Times Union, Richardson told a fan who heckled him early in Tuesday's game, "Shut the [expletive] up." And near game's end, he shouted at another heckler, "Shut the [expletive] up, you [derogatory term for gay men],"

Assistant Derrick Rowland will coach the Patroons for the reminder of the series. Richardson will not be allowed into the Washington Avenue Armory during practices or games.

"It's terrible and I don't think it's fair," Richardson told the Times Union regarding the suspension. "But I want to make an apology if I offended anyone because that's not me."

The Patroons released a statement apologizing for the coach's remarks.

"The Albany Patroons' organization sincerely apologizes to any individuals or ethnic groups that these alleged statements may have offended," the statement read.

The release also stated that the team and league "shall conduct a full and complete investigation as to the validity of these allegations. If these allegations are true, appropriate action will take place immediately."

Richardson, the fourth overall pick in the 1978 draft, is best known for an embattled NBA career that ended because of drugs. He joined the NBA out of Montana and played eight seasons with the New York Knicks, Golden State Warriors and New Jersey Nets. He was the subject of a 2000 film "What Happened to Micheal Ray?" documenting his troubled life.

In his second year, Richardson became only the second player in NBA to lead in both assists and steals. In 1986, the four-time NBA All-Star was banned for life after he violated the league's drug policy three times in what David Stern called "the hardest thing I've ever had to do as commissioner."

Richardson began his comeback in 1988, joining the ranks of ex-NBA players in European leagues where he played for 14 years. His right to play in the NBA was restored that year but he stayed in Italy, where he was a leading scorer and fan favorite.

Richardson failed two cocaine tests in 1991, though he disputed the results.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

transgression of the stereotype allows for some to fall very close to home, obviously not every jew is crafty, if you take it in that sense yes it is anti semetic, but statistics can only lie so long

[Kori Ellis]

Is "crafty" something bad to say? I guess the connotation of crafty could be "sleazy" but I don't use it like that.

If someone called me crafty, I'd take it as a compliment :lol To me, crafty means clever.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

exactly
only the connation would be implied as anti semetic, but shifting to 'wholes' and 'general trends' then the facts support his claim more than disprove it


so not only is he being non-anti-semetic, he may be being truthful as well

[johngateswhiteley]

hmm, i think its funny.

[ChumpDumper]

I can understand the suspension for the outburst at the fan, but not for perpetuating positive Jewish stereotypes.

[Sec24Row7]

ROFL..

It's not like he said that they were BAD at anything...

Is it racist to say that Black People are good at basketball?

I KNOW its racist to say that white people are good at anything... but for different reasons...

[Extra Stout]

Ignorant, but not necessarily anti-Semitic.

[xrayzebra]

Well his Jewish comments were all positive I think. He only
stated facts, well maybe not about his lawyers, we shall see how
crafty they are, if they can get him off. But the rest was true,
not anti-semitic. IMO.

About the homosexual comment? Obviously he doesn't like
people of that persuasion or the folks who suspended him think
that being called one is v e r y bad. And should not be allowed.

But who knows. All kinds of people take offense at all kinds of
things now days.

Only comment I would have about him, on the "gay" thing, if
you are into sports, expect to be taunted and harassed. It is
part of the game (well not in golf, in general, especially if you
have a mafia bagman (caddy) like Tiger). But all other sports.

[Phenomanul]

Ignorant, but not necessarily anti-Semitic.


What he said.

[DarkReign]

Where did he defame Jews again?

Maybe he slammed gay people (hehe...slammed), but the Jew comments were, if anything, positive.

[smeagol]

What he said.
Agreed with him in agreeing with ES

[Oh, Gee!!]

from dictionary.com

craft·y
skillful in underhand or evil schemes; cunning; deceitful; sly.
Skilled in or marked by underhandedness, deviousness, or deception

not exactly compliments

[Oh, Gee!!]

"They got a lot of power in this world, you know what I mean?"

An idea promoted by the likes of Hitler and white supremacy groups

edit: and Mad Max

[ploto]

Stereotype-- of course.

Anti-Semitic-- yes. To say that anyone has accomplished what he has by being crafty is not a compliment. It would be a compliment to say that he worked hard, was intelligent,...

The fact that so many people in this thread have stated that his comments are factual kind of scares me.

[ChumpDumper]

Depends on your definition of crafty.

Mine has no connotations of evil. I doubt Richardson's does either.

Unclench.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

Stereotype-- of course.

Anti-Semitic-- yes. To say that anyone has accomplished what he has by being crafty is not a compliment. It would be a compliment to say that he worked hard, was intelligent,...

The fact that so many people in this thread have stated that his comments are factual kind of scares me.


I'd have to agree with you, crafty is not a compliment, it means you are cunning or deceiving. Just because people think they are saying the right thing does not mean they should the guy should have kept his mouth shut.

[ChumpDumper]

So this is all about the word "crafty"?

Give me a break.

[clambake]

clever

[ploto]

So this is all about the word "crafty"?

No-- there are plenty of other inaccurate remarks in there.

[ChumpDumper]

The ignorance has been stipulated. Inaccurate <> condemning.

[Kori Ellis]

Ploto and SW Texas fan, to you "crafty" might mean deceiving. But that's not the real or only definition. To me, if someone calls me crafty, I assume they mean it as clever, smart. If I call someone crafty, I usually mean that they are clever or smart enough to think of innovative ways to get something done. Crafty isn't necessarily a bad word.

I know someone quoted Dictionary.com, but I go with Webster :lol

Webster.com

1 : SKILLFUL, CLEVER
2 a : adept in the use of subtlety and cunning b : marked by subtlety and guile <a crafty scheme>

[Spurminator]

Dictionary.com is run by Jews anyway.

Crafty move.

[ploto]

Ploto and SW Texas fan, to you "crafty" might mean deceiving. But that's not the real or only definition. To me, if someone calls me crafty, I assume they mean it as clever, smart. If I call someone crafty, I usually mean that they are clever or smart enough to think of innovative ways to get something done. Crafty isn't necessarily a bad word.

It isn't only about the connotation of the word, but even moreso the notion of labeling any entire group of people anything. And to claim that Jews run all the businesses, etc, to me is anti-Semitic.

As to the word, it would be a "compliment" to say that Jews have succeeded due to their emphasis on education- which is again a stereotype but a completely positive one.

I prefer the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. Webster's name has lost some of its prestige ever since the copyright on the name ran out and anyody can use it now.

crafty

1. Skilled in or marked by underhandedness, deviousness, or deception.

Not a compliment.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao you're a dictionary snob too?

Merriam-Webster isn't good enough for you?

[ploto]

For fun. here's a survey of dictionaries:

Compact Oxford English Dictionary: cunning or deceitful

Cambridge Dictionary of American English: skillful in argument but likely to be dishonest

Encarta World English Dictionary: North American Edition: cunning; using or involving cunning or trickery to deceive other people

Webster's 1828 Dictionary: Cunning; artful; skillful in devising and pursuing a scheme, by deceiving others, or by taking advantage of their ignorance; wily; sly; fraudulent

etymology: "strong, powerful"-- later "skillful"-- degenerating by c.1205 to "cunning, sly"

[ChumpDumper]

1828? Maybe you can see if John Quincy Adams has a blog entry about Richardson.

Turns out he was just calling that fan a bundle of twigs.

[T-Pain]

i dont think they were really anti-semetic, he just said a bunch of sterotypes.

[ploto]

Even checked Webster's UNABRIDGED Dictionary for a complete entry:

1 dial chiefly Brit : SKILLFUL, CLEVER, INGENIOUS

2 obs : showing skill : skillfully made

3 : adept at deceiving others : CUNNING, WILY

Definition number one is British and number 2 is considered obsolete. The prefered current usage is the last one. A lot of people think that the first entry in every dictionary is the preferred one, but that is not the case. You have to know how each dictionary is arranged, and Webster's is not arranged that way.

You can insult me on a lot of things, but I know my reference books :)

[ChumpDumper]

The important thing you are completely ignoring is the speaker's intent.

Do you really think he would have substituted the words underhanded, devious or deceitful for crafty?

Of course not.

He should have just kept his mouth shut instead of trying to say positive, if stereotypical, things about Jews. No doubt the Politically Correct Reference Librarian Militia for the Advancement of White Basketball Players can declare mission accomplished here.

[boutons_]

The semantics of "crafty" apart, I really doubt, from the rest of his claptrap, that he's such a discriminating "craft"sman of laser-precision speech.

Running his mouth about "Jew" stereotypes, claiming planet-wide "Jew" hate, "faggot" insults, and flipping off the crowd got him an unscheduled vacation, and unpaid, if an CBA suspension means the same as NBA suspension.

Sounds to me like his team's success and the new contracts under discussed pumped up his head, and his mouth followed suit.

[Kori Ellis]

Okay ploto, I understand have you are defining crafty as negative, but what about this ...


And to claim that Jews run all the businesses, etc, to me is anti-Semitic.

To claim jews run all the business is anti-semitic??

It's a generalization, but anti-semitic?

Anti-semitic is something negative or hostile toward Jews. Saying they run businesses isn't negative or hostile.

[Guru of Nothing]

Okay ploto, I understand have you are defining crafty as negative, but what about this ...



To claim jews run all the business is anti-semitic??

It's a generalization, but anti-semitic?

Anti-semitic is something negative or hostile toward Jews. Saying they run businesses isn't negative or hostile.

.... but, people often speak in "code." I've seen it many times here in Mississippi.

"Innuendo" is the word that we should be looking up in the dictionary.

[Kori Ellis]

:lol

I don't really have a mission in this thread. I am not even standing up for the guy. I just don't think it's that bad of a thing to make a generalization - Jews are good at business, Blacks are good athletes, etc.

I know that when I worked in Beverly Hills, I said once "all businesses in Beverly Hills are owned by Jews". In reality, not ALL are, but it's a tremendous majority.

But believe me, I wasn't slighting the Jewish business owners - rather I was complimenting them.

[danyel]

I'm jewish and I'm not good at business.

Making generalizations on national media is something people should avoid, is not that hard... You're always going to end up hurting someone sensibilities.

And no, I dont think it was antisemitic, it looks just like a regular stupid comment to me.

[leemajors]

tony kornheiser said he wasn't personally offended, and invited him over for passover seder. dude's other famous remark is "the ship be sinking."

[sabar]

I've always taken crafty to mean backstabbing, lying, deceitful, ect. Crafty is rarely used in literature in any other context. The term crafty to refer to being good at a craft is archaic. Especially when we are talking about lawyers, an occupation not known for it's honesty or integrity.

Either way that is semantics. So what is offensive and what is anti-semetic?

Note that anti-semeticism is hostility and prejudice to the Jewish people.
Prejudice is the act of pre-judging someone.

Prejudice is the direct offspring of social stereotypes.

Saying all Jews are crafty creates two possible stereotypes or prejudices.

1. All Jews are deceitful.
2. All Jews are skillful.

The first is anti-semetic, the second one isn't. (hostility present)
The first is prejudice and so is the second. (pre-judging)
The first is stereotypical and so is the second. (generalizing)

This is all about his context of the word.

[DryHeat13]

Look who these words were coming from - an ex-NBA player and current basketball coach who more than likely grew up within the basketball and sports community and as such is heavily influenced by the verbage and lingo used within the sports community. It's a fact - the word crafty is used in a very positive light within the sports community. How many times have a good, older player been described as a crafty veteran or crafty defender? For example, Bruce Bowen is often described as a crafty player, and every single time it's a positive description. This is more than likely the angle he was coming from, and the legitimate intent in this case renders all dictionary and literary meanings irrelevant.

Now, shut the fuck up fag... that's another story.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Is "crafty" something bad to say? I guess the connotation of crafty could be "sleazy" but I don't use it like that.

If someone called me crafty, I'd take it as a compliment :lol To me, crafty means clever.

Kori,

Cafty can suggest slyness an cleverness which by implication can mean being Deceitful. Though I think he meant it the way you said, judging by his evident lack of insight. But merely stating crafty in reference to a Jew is going to get anyone suspended becuse of it's immediate several, contrasting implications. Take into account the fucker running this league is a Jew, and I know that Jews can be peevish because I am one. :)

[Spurminator]

Is this really getting play on sports talk radio/TV?

Friggin Jew media. Figures.

[Extra Stout]

People just didn't understand that Jimmy the Greek was complimenting black people when he said they were bred to be good athletes.

Let me go comb through the dictionary to prove it.