ESPN Analysts- No Title for Mavs

[pussyface]

I had the chance to see a columnist from the New York Times join Skip Bayless on that show called "1st and 10" today.

To begin the discussion, Bayless said he was impressed with what Avery had done but that this was a team built strictly for regular-season success. Doesn't trust Dirk when the game is on the line. Wishes he could put some of Stackhouse's killer instinct in Dirk. Said Mavs title or bust mentality predisposes them to failure.

The New York Times guy, some black fellow whose name escapes me, agreed emphatically. "Its the Suns year." He pointed to their recent OT win in Dallas as a turning point and suggested the same thing will happen in the playoffs. Reeling off seven straight (6-0 road trip) since losing to Phoenix while they have sputtered since was deemed not worthy of mention.

Bayless interjected that either way, it wouldn't matter because the Mavs can't beat the Spurs anyway.

Asked for what specifically he didn't like about the Mavs besides just loving the Suns, New York Times guy said that he agreed with Bayless and felt it was obvious that Dirk wasn't "as tough as" guys like Tim Duncan and Amare Stoudamire. He then said "Dirk is a great regular season player."

...all in all, downright dismissive of the little 60-11 squad that could. It was pretty interesting to see.

[monosylab1k]

The next time Skip Bayless says anything positive about a team from Dallas, it'll be the first.

[sribb43]

Ever since Bayliss left Dallas, he has been a Mavs hater and a Spurs homer. He has picked the spurs to win the title almost every year

[pussyface]

i honestly think Dirk is percieved as not being tough like guys like Duncan and Stoudamire because he is white.

[monosylab1k]

Bayless' sole purpose in life is to drive fans of Dallas teams insane. And I'm not shocked a New Yorker doesn't think a team from Texas can win it all.

[mardigan]

i honestly think Dirk is percieved as not being tough like guys like Duncan and Stoudamire because he is white.
No, its cause he isnt tough

[monosylab1k]

i honestly think Dirk is percieved as not being tough like guys like Duncan and Stoudamire because he is white.

European. If he was American, he'd be getting Larry Bird type respect.

[monosylab1k]

No, its cause he isnt tough

He's tough like 60% of the time now.

[LilMissSPURfect]

I had the chance to see a columnist from the New York Times join Skip Bayless on that show called "1st and 10" today.

To begin the discussion, Bayless said he was impressed with what Avery had done but that this was a team built strictly for regular-season success. Doesn't trust Dirk when the game is on the line. Wishes he could put some of Stackhouse's killer instinct in Dirk. Said Mavs title or bust mentality predisposes them to failure.

The New York Times guy, some black fellow whose name escapes me, agreed emphatically. "Its the Suns year." He pointed to their recent OT win in Dallas as a turning point and suggested the same thing will happen in the playoffs. Reeling off seven straight since losing to Phoenix while they have sputtered since was deemed not worthy of mention.

Bayless interjected that either way, it wouldn't matter because the Mavs can't beat the Spurs anyway.

Asked for what specifically he didn't like about the Mavs besides just loving the Suns, New York Times guy said that he agreed with Bayless and felt it was obvious that Dirk wasn't "as tough as" guys like Tim Duncan and Amare Stoudamire. He then said "Dirk is a great regular season player."

...all in all, downright dismissive of the little 60-11 squad that could. It was pretty interesting to see.


hmmmmmm :dizzy
i thought timmay wasn't black enuff and soft and all that crap EXPERTS speak of now this......

[DarrinS]

That whole "I don't trust Dirk at the end of a game" line is just nonsense. Who does he think took the final shot to get Mavs into overtime of game 7 against San Antonio?


The Mavs are the best team in the NBA right now (as much as I hate to say that). They have a lot of playoff experience and are probably even hungrier and will not be satisfied just to make it to the finals.

[mardigan]

He's tough like 60% of the time now.
Yea, he has gotten tougher, for sure, but I dont think he intimidates anyone

[dbreiden83080]

Bayless is annoying i means he acts all pro-Spur but then always says they are so boring. He has vastly underated Dallas all year. A team that wins this many games in the season that went to the finals the year before is not built just for the season.

[DarrinS]

European. If he was American, he'd be getting Larry Bird type respect.


I don't know if I agree with that. The media is all over Dirk's jock right now. All the MVP talk has been about Dirk and Nash -- two white dudes.


It will be a while before anybody gets Larry Bird type respect. That guy was just amazing. I remember watching a game where he scrambled for a loose ball and made a basket while laying flat on his back. I'm glad I was alive and witnessed the NBA years with Magic and Bird.

[mabber]

Yea, he has gotten tougher, for sure, but I dont think he intimidates anyone

No, he doesn't intimidate anyone but I'm having a hard time coming up with many top players that do intimidate other players.

[sandman]

I had the chance to see a columnist from the New York Times join Skip Bayless on that show called "1st and 10" today.

To begin the discussion, Bayless said he was impressed with what Avery had done but that this was a team built strictly for regular-season success. Doesn't trust Dirk when the game is on the line. Wishes he could put some of Stackhouse's killer instinct in Dirk. Said Mavs title or bust mentality predisposes them to failure.

The New York Times guy, some black fellow whose name escapes me, agreed emphatically. "Its the Suns year." He pointed to their recent OT win in Dallas as a turning point and suggested the same thing will happen in the playoffs. Reeling off seven straight since losing to Phoenix while they have sputtered since was deemed not worthy of mention.

Bayless interjected that either way, it wouldn't matter because the Mavs can't beat the Spurs anyway.

Asked for what specifically he didn't like about the Mavs besides just loving the Suns, New York Times guy said that he agreed with Bayless and felt it was obvious that Dirk wasn't "as tough as" guys like Tim Duncan and Amare Stoudamire. He then said "Dirk is a great regular season player."

...all in all, downright dismissive of the little 60-11 squad that could. It was pretty interesting to see.

Nobody likes us, everybody hates us... :rolleyes

If you want to stake claim at being the best team in the L, then be prepared for people to take shots at you. Everyone loves the underdog, the backup quarterback, the autistic benchwarmer who scores 30 points in the final quarter of a high school basketball game. Get back on the porch if you dont want to act like the big dog.

[pussyface]

Yea, he has gotten tougher, for sure, but I dont think he intimidates anyone

he's always been the kind of guy who will take a shot to the face, get a tooth knocked out whatever and stay in the game. same with when he twists up his ankle and what not.

he doesnt intimidate people in the real sense of the world, but neither does tim duncan. dirk is intimidating just like duncan, in that they intimidate in the sense of being really good, hard to defend, constantly winning etc.

[monosylab1k]

The media is all over Dirk's jock right now.

I've never seen a year where the media was so reluctant to name the best player on the best team as the frontrunner for MVP. They're trying their damnedest to find every reason possible to not give it to Dirk.

[phyzik]

Ever since Bayliss left Dallas, he has been a Mavs hater and a Spurs homer. He has picked the spurs to win the title almost every year

Whats wrong with betting safe?

Do you go to the horse races and bet on the horse thats never finished first? or the horse thats proved itself?

with that said, they where completely dismissive and I think its going to be Mavs/Spurs WCF.

*edit* holy crap, thats what I get for trying to post at work and not paying attention, suprised no one caught it :lol

[pussyface]

Nobody likes us, everybody hates us... :rolleyes

If you want to stake claim at being the best team in the L, then be prepared for people to take shots at you. Everyone loves the underdog, the backup quarterback, the autistic benchwarmer who scores 30 points in the final quarter of a high school basketball game. Get back on the porch if you dont want to act like the big dog.

i wasn't complaining at all. you have little to no sense of "tone" in the things you read. i was merely acting as an impartial purveyor of information.

[LEONARD]

Skip Bayless :lol

[monosylab1k]

Everyone loves the underdog

But nobody expects them to win. They just want them to win. Everybody expects the big dog to win. So if Skip Bayless had said "I fuckin' hate Dallas and want somebody other than them to win" I wouldn't mind this article one bit. The fact that he hides behind one nationally televised game and throws out the rest of the season shows his bias.

[mardigan]

No, he doesn't intimidate anyone but I'm having a hard time coming up with many top players that do intimidate other players.
Kevin Willis if you take out the top part

[DarrinS]

Hey, at least the Mavs have Bill Simmons, right?

[mabber]

I don't know if I agree with that. The media is all over Dirk's jock right now. All the MVP talk has been about Dirk and Nash -- two white dudes.


It will be a while before anybody gets Larry Bird type respect. That guy was just amazing. I remember watching a game where he scrambled for a loose ball and made a basket while laying flat on his back. I'm glad I was alive and witnessed the NBA years with Magic and Bird.

Dirk wouldn't get Larry Bird respect if he were Amercian but he'd get more than he gets now since he's European. I truely believe that.

By the way, a couple of the older columnists in Boston have written very favorable articles comparing Dirk to Larry. Until Dirk wins a title or two it's really not a good comparision IMO.

I lived in Boston when Bird was drafted by the Celtics. I had only lived in Boston for 2 years but was a Celtic fan and that was a great day in Boston. Celtics sucked the 2-3 years prior to Bird arriving. I moved to Dallas the very next year so I never saw much of Bird in person though.

[mardigan]

Not just Euro, but German, even worse

[monosylab1k]

Hey, at least the Mavs have Bill Simmons, right?

Not really. Lately Simmons has been pleasuring himself to pictures of Steve Nash and Boris Diaw and then writing columns about how the Suns have a chance to be one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

[monosylab1k]

Not just Euro, but German, even worse

Which makes me wonder, why haven't I seen any photoshops of Dirk with a Hitler mustache on this site? Or have I just been missing them?

[Testing]

:wtf What's so wrong with what was said? Dirk's inability to come through in the clutch often and enough has been documented. I may even say that this is the only weakness that I see in the Mavs squad. In fact, their second best player on the team, Josh Howard, also has this problem...he averages only 4 ppg in the fourth quarter this season. :wow Difference from this year and last though is that Dirk doesn't need to come through in the clutch too often. Mavs have plenty of other players who have improved and can prove to come through in the clutch: Devean George, Jason Terry, etc. to counter Dirk.

[DarrinS]

Not really. Lately Simmons has been pleasuring himself to pictures of Steve Nash and Boris Diaw and then writing columns about how the Suns have a chance to be one of the greatest teams in NBA history.


Suns? One of the greatest teams in history? That makes me wanna

:vomit:

[sandman]

I've never seen a year where the media was so reluctant to name the best player on the best team as the frontrunner for MVP. They're trying their damnedest to find every reason possible to not give it to Dirk.

So it's a "damnedest" reason to consider Nash because the Suns are like 0-and-a-million and play like a lottery team without him?

It's a "damnedest" reason because Kobe goes for 50 points over 4 straight games, but the Lakers only win by an average margin of less than 5 points in those 4 games.

It's a "damnedest" reason because Shaq has taken a sub-.500 team to a 11-3 record and into the 6th seed in the East in the month after DWade went out with an injury?

There are clearly reasons that others are getting mentioned. That does not mean that Dirk is not also a viable candidate, but the definition of MVP is not the best player on the best team, it is the player who has the greatest impact to their team. In fact, even on his own team, I would venture to say that the level of play that the Mavs get from JHo is more indicative of the team's success. Remember all those stats about their gaudy record last year when he scored more than 20 points in a game?

Take Kobe off the Lakers and Nash off the Suns, and both those teams are lottery bound. Take Dirk off of the Mavs and they are still a playoff team. At least if we are to believe everything you tell us about how good Devin, JHo, Jet and even Stack are.

[pussyface]

:wtf What's so wrong with what was said? Dirk's inability to come through in the clutch often and enough has been documented. I may even say that this is the only weakness that I see in the Mavs squad. In fact, their second best player on the team, Josh Howard, also has this problem...he averages only 4 ppg in the fourth quarter this season. :wow Difference from this year and last though is that Dirk doesn't need to come through in the clutch too often. Mavs have plenty of other players who have improved and can prove to come through in the clutch: Devean George, Jason Terry, etc. to counter Dirk.

there is nothing wrong with the comments at all.
i just brought them up because i thought they were provocative and good fodder for spurstalkin it up.

[monosylab1k]

So it's a "damnedest" reason to consider Nash because the Suns are like 0-and-a-million and play like a lottery team without him?

So we're giving points to Nash for getting hurt and taking away from Dirk for staying available for his team?



It's a "damnedest" reason because Kobe goes for 50 points over 4 straight games, but the Lakers only win by an average margin of less than 5 points in those 4 games.

as they remain a barely .500 team?


It's a "damnedest" reason because Shaq has taken a sub-.500 team to a 11-3 record and into the 6th seed in the East in the month after DWade went out with an injury?

After being injured and half-assing it for the first 40-50 games of the season? I didn't think MVP's could loaf for half the year.


the definition of MVP is not the best player on the best team, it is the player who has the greatest impact to their team.

Then why didn't Jordan win the MVP in basically every year he was in the league?

[LEONARD]

:wtf What's so wrong with what was said? Dirk's inability to come through in the clutch often and enough has been documented. I may even say that this is the only weakness that I see in the Mavs squad. In fact, their second best player on the team, Josh Howard, also has this problem...he averages only 4 ppg in the fourth quarter this season. :wow Difference from this year and last though is that Dirk doesn't need to come through in the clutch too often. Mavs have plenty of other players who have improved and can prove to come through in the clutch: Devean George, Jason Terry, etc. to counter Dirk.

Dirk's inability to come thru in the clutch is over-stated by haters...

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62650

(I'm not saying that these stats are the be all end all to the discussion, but it supports the fact that Dirk isn't terrible at the end of games)

Ouch...Kobe has a lot of late big shots because he takes a ton...his % isn't that great...

[mardigan]

I dont want to turn this into another Kobe vs the world thread. He shoots 46%, not to shabby at all for the rate he shoots

[mardigan]

Which makes me wonder, why haven't I seen any photoshops of Dirk with a Hitler mustache on this site? Or have I just been missing them?
I dont think I have seen that either, but I would like to see a photoshopped pic of Dirks head on a Baywatch person

[LEONARD]

I dont want to turn this into another Kobe vs the world thread. He shoots 46%, not to shabby at all for the rate he shoots

I was referring to his last shot stat of 18%... ;)

[mardigan]

I was referring to his last shot stat of 18%... ;)
Oh, I didnt even look at that

[Shank]

I thought this was going to be something worth a shit until I read Bayless' name.

If you want to ask the ESPN analysts, go to the ESPN.com site and read what the real guys think. Bayless and some tool from NY aren't worth a shit.

[DarrinS]

Just for grins


Lary Bird

FG% .496
3PFG% .376
RPG 10
APG 6.3
PPG 24.3



Dirkmeister

FG% .470
3PFG% .381
RPG 8.6
APG 2.6
PPG 22.3



So, Dirk is a better 3PT shooter, statistically, than Larry Bird, but Bird excelled in virtually every other aspect of the game.


EDIT> Not to mention Bird was a 3 time league MVP and two time finals MVP.

[RonMexico]

Yeah, Dirk's not to Larry's level yet... then again, he doesn't have a McHale and Parrish in there to help him out on some of those assist numbers.

[DarrinS]

Yeah, Dirk's not to Larry's level yet... then again, he doesn't have a McHale and Parrish in there to help him out on some of those assist numbers.


I'd love to see a head-to-head 3PT shooting contest between Bird and Dirk.

Here's the past winners


2006 Houston Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas
2005 Denver Quentin Richardson, Phoenix
2004 Los Angeles Voshon Lenard, Denver
2003 Atlanta Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento
2002 Philadelphia Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento
2001 Washington, D.C. Ray Allen, Milwaukee
2000 Oakland Jeff Hornacek, Utah
1999 No competition - lockout
1998 New York Jeff Hornacek, Utah
1997 Cleveland Steve Kerr, Chicago
1996 San Antonio Tim Legler, Washington
1995 Phoenix Glen Rice, Miami
1994 Minneapolis Mark Price, Cleveland
1993 Salt Lake City Mark Price, Cleveland
1992 Orlando Craig Hodges, Chicago
1991 Charlotte Craig Hodges, Chicago
1990 Miami Craig Hodges, Chicago
1989 Houston Dale Ellis, Seattle
1988 Chicago Larry Bird, Boston
1987 Seattle Larry Bird, Boston
1986 Dallas Larry Bird, Boston


I forgot about Dale Ellis. He used to play for the Spurs (as well as many other teams).

[ponky]

haha, who cares about espn analysts like bayless? anyway, these are stats from the last three seasons combined concerning clutch shots. i will admit that dirk needs to get his head straight when it comes to FT shooting late in the game but other than that, i have no problems with his game. it's weird that most of the top 4th quarter point leaders have problems with the free throw shooting, probably because they're tired... it's too messy to cut and paste so i'll just link:

http://www.82games.com/random12.htm

the comment about josh howard averaging only four points in the fourth is not telling the whole story. the top ten 4th quarter point leaders from the regular season of 05-06 are as follows:

Bryant 9.6 (points in 4th/game) .471 (fg%)
James 8.4 .485
Iverson 8.4 .416
Arenas 7.9 .439
Pierce 7.8 .480
Anthony 7.6 .463
Redd 7.5 .507
Wade 7.2 .527
Brand 6.9 .515
Nowitzki 6.8 .518

[DarrinS]

haha, who cares about espn analysts like bayless? anyway, these are stats from the last three seasons combined concerning clutch shots. i will admit that dirk needs to get his head straight when it comes to FT shooting late in the game but other than that, i have no problems with his game. it's weird that most of the top 4th quarter point leaders have problems with the free throw shooting, probably because they're tired... it's too messy to cut and paste so i'll just link:

http://www.82games.com/random12.htm




I found something interesting (and maybe disturbing) on that site

----------------
Leaders in Free Throw attempts:
Billups 12, Pierce 10, Nowitzki 10, Bryant 9

Most unassisted game winning/tying baskets:
Joe Johnson 8, McGrady 7, Pierce 7, Nowitzki 7
----------------

[SpursDynasty]

Haha, funny. One writer DOESN'T worship the Mavs and the whole forum explodes. Awesome.

Count me in...that makes two of us who don't think the Mavs will win the championship despite being 70-12 or whatever they end up. It's an honest non-homer opinion.

The championship goes to Detroit, Miami, or SA.

[mardigan]

Haha, funny. One writer DOESN'T worship the Mavs and the whole forum explodes. Awesome.

Count me in...that makes two of us who don't think the Mavs will win the championship despite being 70-12 or whatever they end.

The championship goes to Detroit, Miami, or SA.
The whole forum didnt explode, and why does it not surprise me that you side with Skip Bayless?

[monosylab1k]

Haha, funny. One writer DOESN'T worship the Mavs and the whole forum explodes. Awesome.

Count me in...that makes two of us who don't think the Mavs will win the championship despite being 70-12 or whatever they end up. It's an honest non-homer opinion.

The championship goes to Detroit, Miami, or SA.

It's not that he doesn't worship the Mavs. It's that he doesn't worship the Mavs yet fails to provide any semblance of sound reasoning as to why they can't win the title.

Kind of like you.

[ponky]

I found something interesting (and maybe disturbing) on that site

----------------
Leaders in Free Throw attempts:
Billups 12, Pierce 10, Nowitzki 10, Bryant 9

Most unassisted game winning/tying baskets:
Joe Johnson 8, McGrady 7, Pierce 7, Nowitzki 7
----------------

yeah i noticed these two stats...these have to be for the fourth quarter alone, not including the playoffs (the stats were updated in april) because last season the top ten FTAs leaders for the regular season were:

AI
Kobe
lebron
Pierce
Wade
Arenas
Anthony
Gasol
Carter
Howard
Nowitzki

[mabber]

I found something interesting (and maybe disturbing) on that site

----------------
Leaders in Free Throw attempts:
Billups 12, Pierce 10, Nowitzki 10, Bryant 9

Most unassisted game winning/tying baskets:
Joe Johnson 8, McGrady 7, Pierce 7, Nowitzki 7
----------------

I've been saying all along that Dirk has made plenty of clutch shots (and even clutch free throws). The media only remembers and points out his failures (I understand this though as it's much easier that way and gives them more to write/talk about)

[ponky]

haha, check this out (no, i'm not bitching, simmer down)

player games played fta/game fta/total

Amare Stoudemire 70 7.4 518
Dirk Nowitzki 70 7.3 510
Dwyane Wade 46 11.0 506
Tim Duncan 71 7.1 505

[sandman]

So we're giving points to Nash for getting hurt and taking away from Dirk for staying available for his team?

No, we are recognizing the severe limitation of the Suns to succeed as a team when Nash is not playing. How does Dirk not being hurt make him a more viable candidate than Nash who has missed a few games?



as they remain a barely .500 team?

Which proves my point that as great as Kobe is playing as an individual, the overall talent level of what this team is putting on the floor each night is lottery level in a bad way without Kobe.


After being injured and half-assing it for the first 40-50 games of the season? I didn't think MVP's could loaf for half the year.

I did not say that Shaq was a worthy candidate of MVP talks, but you cannot deny the fact that he is carrying this team since the ASG. With Wade out, do you honestly believe that the Heat would go 12-6 without Shaq, even in the Eastern Conference?


Then why didn't Jordan win the MVP in basically every year he was in the league?

The obvious answer is that there is much politics played over the MVP award, but let me also say this:

In the two years that Jordan played baseball, the Bulls won 55 and 47 games respectively and made it to the second round of the playoffs in both years. The Bulls did not go from championship caliber to lottery bound when Jordan retired. Nor do I think that the Mavs would should Dirk be lost for the season due to injury. But you can't say the same thing about the Suns w/out Nash, and that is what makes an MVP. With Nash, the Suns have a legitimate shot at the Finals. Without him, they have a legitimate shot at Greg Oden.

[ponky]

sandman, you could take a lot of franchise players away from their teams and they would flail like the suns have...kg and the wolves, bosh and the raptors, kobe and the lakers, arenas and the wiz, so what? just because a team relies so heavily on one guy doesn't mean that he deserves mvp every year, especially when they have two other all-stars on the team. when duncan won his mvps (regular season) it was partly because he was having a great year and partly because his team was kicking ass with a really great roster with guys like d-rob, ginobili, jackson, rose, bowen, kerr and a young parker. this doesn't mean that there weren't other teams at the time who had franchise players that were relied upon heavily...at that time, one could talk about nowitzki and how mediocre the team would've been without him in 03...they did have the same record as the spurs that year and i'd say the mavs without nowitzki were not as good as the spurs without duncan back in 03 when duncan won mvp

[Trainwreck2100]

Yea, he has gotten tougher, for sure, but I dont think he intimidates anyone

http://www.derri-air.com/images/fitness_1.jpg

Disagrees

[mardigan]

:lolThats pretty good

[mabber]

http://www.derri-air.com/images/fitness_1.jpg

Disagrees

Good stuff. :lol

[LEONARD]

Haha, funny. One writer DOESN'T worship the Mavs and the whole forum explodes. Awesome.

Count me in...that makes two of us who don't think the Mavs will win the championship despite being 70-12 or whatever they end up. It's an honest non-homer opinion.

The championship goes to Detroit, Miami, or SA.

Wow Jeff...seriously...just when I thought you couldn't top some ofyour other posts...

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[DarrinS]

Oh, Dirk can be intimidating.


Dirk's Hasselhoff poster "out of the box"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1495000/images/_1495049_hasselhof150.jpg


Dirk's Hasselhoff poster after Dirk's "done" with it

http://static.flickr.com/53/113599936_633b300e2f_m.jpg
I've been violated!!

[sprrs]

Mavs are built for regular season success while the SUNS are a team that is built for the playoffs?

:rolleyes

[lefty]

Bayless is really dumb ; anything can happen during the playoffs

[u2sarajevo]

In case you didn't know already.... Skip Bayliss is the writer who, while in Dallas, wrote that Troy Aikman was gay.

He is a 'tard.

[Xylus]

Skip Bayless is indeed an idiot. I wouldn't listen to a word that comes out of that moron's mouth.

[nkdlunch]

ouch

[Extra Stout]

Mavs are built for regular season success while the SUNS are a team that is built for the playoffs?

:rolleyes
That was the part that got me. He might as well have said, "I want the Suns to win and will invent reasons why they will."

Of course, no matter how many games Dallas wins, it doesn't guarantee playoff success. It is merely a very strong indicator.

The way that has been shown to beat Dallas is to run them out of the building. Phoenix can do that. In the halfcourt game, a team would have to out-execute the Mavs, which is extremely difficult to do because they have so many guys who can create their own shot at a high rate of efficiency.

If these folks had said something along those lines, at least their opinion would be respectable. But actually knowing what they are talking about doesn't play on ESPN. Appealing to the lowest common denominator by stirring up the common fan is ESPN's game plan.

[Kermit]

wait a second...

troy aikman isn't gay? where the fuck have i been?

[sandman]

sandman, you could take a lot of franchise players away from their teams and they would flail like the suns have...kg and the wolves, bosh and the raptors, kobe and the lakers, arenas and the wiz, so what? just because a team relies so heavily on one guy doesn't mean that he deserves mvp every year, especially when they have two other all-stars on the team. when duncan won his mvps (regular season) it was partly because he was having a great year and partly because his team was kicking ass with a really great roster with guys like d-rob, ginobili, jackson, rose, bowen, kerr and a young parker. this doesn't mean that there weren't other teams at the time who had franchise players that were relied upon heavily...at that time, one could talk about nowitzki and how mediocre the team would've been without him in 03...they did have the same record as the spurs that year and i'd say the mavs without nowitzki were not as good as the spurs without duncan back in 03 when duncan won mvp

Hold on. I am not saying that Dirk would be undeserving of the MVP. I am not saying that Dirk is not the leading candidate for MVP at this point. I am not saying the system would be broke if Dirk won the MVP. I am simply saying that he does not automatically win the MVP based solely on being the best player on the team with the best record. I was simply pointing out the subjectiveness of the award to those who cannot fathom how anyone else could possibly be considered above Dirk.

[pussyface]

That was the part that got me. He might as well have said, "I want the Suns to win and will invent reasons why they will."

Of course, no matter how many games Dallas wins, it doesn't guarantee playoff success. It is merely a very strong indicator.

The way that has been shown to beat Dallas is to run them out of the building. Phoenix can do that. In the halfcourt game, a team would have to out-execute the Mavs, which is extremely difficult to do because they have so many guys who can create their own shot at a high rate of efficiency.

If these folks had said something along those lines, at least their opinion would be respectable. But actually knowing what they are talking about doesn't play on ESPN. Appealing to the lowest common denominator by stirring up the common fan is ESPN's game plan.

well said amigo

[JMarkJohns]

I hate how the Suns have gone from completely dismissed to wholly praised. They have issues. More so than the Mavericks. They are better in areas, equal in other, but there's no comparison to rebounding where Dallas kicks Phoenix's ass. It'll be interesting to see how things shape up come Sunday.

I still think Dallas is the team to beat and also that they'd cement such status if they'd let Terry be the man late, rather than Dirk. Terry is clutch. Dirk is inconsistant. Work with both, but Terry more often.

[monosylab1k]

I was simply pointing out the subjectiveness of the award to those who cannot fathom how anyone else could possibly be considered above Dirk.

I never said I couldn't fathom how anybody but Dirk could win it. I just pointed out that people are finding any way possible to not give it to him, or to try and remove him from the running. Last year everybody said "it's clearly Nash"...the year before "it's clearly Nash or Shaq".....other times "it's clearly Duncan" or "it's clearly Garnett" or "it's clearly Karl Malone".....and this year it's "weeeeeelll maybe Dirk but really look at how Nash's team does when he DOESN'T play, look at how shitty the Lakers are but KOBE scored like a motherfucker, look at how the Heat are rebounding after Shaq started to give a shit halfway through, look at how awesome Gilbert Arenas' blog is....and on and on. I wouldn't be too pissed if Dirk loses to Nash or Kobe, but it really pisses me off how every last fuckin' expert wants to find a way to prove that he's not really a candidate.

[mardigan]

wait a second...

troy aikman isn't gay? where the fuck have i been?
You take that back! Troy loves the snooch, LOVES IT!

[sandman]

I never said I couldn't fathom how anybody but Dirk could win it. I just pointed out that people are finding any way possible to not give it to him, or to try and remove him from the running. Last year everybody said "it's clearly Nash"...the year before "it's clearly Nash or Shaq".....other times "it's clearly Duncan" or "it's clearly Garnett" or "it's clearly Karl Malone".....and this year it's "weeeeeelll maybe Dirk but really look at how Nash's team does when he DOESN'T play, look at how shitty the Lakers are but KOBE scored like a motherfucker, look at how the Heat are rebounding after Shaq started to give a shit halfway through, look at how awesome Gilbert Arenas' blog is....and on and on. I wouldn't be too pissed if Dirk loses to Nash or Kobe, but it really pisses me off how every last fuckin' expert wants to find a way to prove that he's not really a candidate.

If every last one of them is saying it, then it may be the truth. Or simply a vast Right Wing conspiracy! :lol

[pussyface.]

well said amigo

yeah, that's fuckin' right! you tell 'em pussyface! everyone will know our awesomeness! hey are we gonna look up stuff about f scott fitzgerald on wikipedia so that later we can pwn some n00bs by making them think we're smart? i got the cliff's notes on great gatsby, and i think that if we start calling people "old chap" it will be a playfully forgettable phrase that will still come across as subtly intelligent! genius!

[ponky]

Hold on. I am not saying that Dirk would be undeserving of the MVP. I am not saying that Dirk is not the leading candidate for MVP at this point. I am not saying the system would be broke if Dirk won the MVP. I am simply saying that he does not automatically win the MVP based solely on being the best player on the team with the best record. I was simply pointing out the subjectiveness of the award to those who cannot fathom how anyone else could possibly be considered above Dirk.

i understand your point...and i agree...but it will be a disgrace if nash gets a third mvp

[mardigan]

i understand your point...and i agree...but it will be a disgrace if nash gets a third mvp
I dont think it would be a disgrace, I wouldnt like it to much, but Nash I think really has proved that to his team, he is so damn valuable

[baseline bum]

As a Spurs fan, I'd love it if Dirk developed some of Stackhouse's "killer instinct". :lol

Nowitzki's always been a big game player. Bayless is talking out his ass. Any NBA superstar with more than a few years under his belt and any level of success has had one shitty series in his career.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

Fuck Skip and any Mav haters out there! Keep doubting us mother fuckers. WHEN the Mavs take care of the west and claim their championship, all this talk will FINALLY come to an end! :madrun :madrun

[aexchange]

I love how people conveniently forget that Terry is the biggest single choker on the Mavs in FT Late game situations. The guy is absolutely abysmal at the line in late game situations.

[itzsoweezee]

i honestly think Dirk is percieved as not being tough like guys like Duncan and Stoudamire because he is white.


that a possibility. or maybe . . . it's because he's always fucking choking when the game is on the line (when the refs don't bail him out with some free throws).

[mabber]

that a possibility. or maybe . . . it's because he's always fucking choking when the game is on the line (when the refs don't bail him out with some free throws).

5 for 5 from the line in last 2 minutes of the game last night (9 total pts in last 2 minutes) so maybe you should take out the "always". I'd replace it with "every once in awhile" as he comes thru on the line far more times than he fails.

Yes, he missed 1 of 2 free throws in one game of the finals last year and he missed a couple of free throws down the stretch in game vs. Phoenix a couple of weeks ago. I recall him making all the "clutch" free throws in the playoffs (especially vs. the Spurs).

[TheMulvany]

I had the chance to see a columnist from the New York Times join Skip Bayless on that show called "1st and 10" today.

To begin the discussion, Bayless said he was impressed with what Avery had done but that this was a team built strictly for regular-season success. Doesn't trust Dirk when the game is on the line. Wishes he could put some of Stackhouse's killer instinct in Dirk. Said Mavs title or bust mentality predisposes them to failure.

The New York Times guy, some black fellow whose name escapes me, agreed emphatically. "Its the Suns year." He pointed to their recent OT win in Dallas as a turning point and suggested the same thing will happen in the playoffs. Reeling off seven straight (6-0 road trip) since losing to Phoenix while they have sputtered since was deemed not worthy of mention.

Bayless interjected that either way, it wouldn't matter because the Mavs can't beat the Spurs anyway.

Asked for what specifically he didn't like about the Mavs besides just loving the Suns, New York Times guy said that he agreed with Bayless and felt it was obvious that Dirk wasn't "as tough as" guys like Tim Duncan and Amare Stoudamire. He then said "Dirk is a great regular season player."

...all in all, downright dismissive of the little 60-11 squad that could. It was pretty interesting to see.

Yep...the Mavs couldnt beat the Spurs last year, right huh?

The Mavs are 2-0 in San Antonio this year. They've won 4 out of their last 5 there. The Mavs have half as many losses THIS year as the Spurs had last year....and the Spurs had their best team in franchise history last year.

The Spurs probably wont make it to the western conference finals, but if they do, the Mavs are going to hummiliate them.

[TheMulvany]

I've added this to the list of threads I'll bump after the Mavs beat the Spurs in the playoffs, by the way. I did it last year too when you were all starting a thread titled "Who do we want, Phoenix or the Clippers in the WCF?" after the Mavs lost game 1.

[ponky]

I've added this to the list of threads I'll bump after the Mavs beat the Spurs in the playoffs, by the way. I did it last year too when you were all starting a thread titled "Who do we want, Phoenix or the Clippers in the WCF?" after the Mavs lost game 1.

:lmao

[LongBall]

Skip Bayless is a bitch. Longball guarantees the Mavs win it all this year and without much difficulty. Money in the bank bitches!!!

[StylisticS]

Skip Bayless is a bitch. Longball guarantees the Mavs win it all this year and without much difficulty. Money in the bank bitches!!!

wasnt you suppose to disappear.