Best PF of all time according to Chuck...

[SilverPlayer]

And it pains him to say this.

Tim.
Me. (ie- Chuck)
Karl Malone
Kevin McHale

[Obstructed_View]

That's probably my list, in that same order.

[AnkleBreaker21]

yah he speaks the truth, just like he just said no more cav's on national tv, im with him im tired of watching them

[bigfan]

I used to hate the guy when he was a player but Ive really enjoyed him since he became, well, whatever he is on TNT. He is a straight shooter for the most part and I think he's right most of the time. He darn sure appreciates good defense and always comments on it.

[baseline bum]

Tim's been the best PF in NBA history for 5 years now.

[Obstructed_View]

Tim's been the best PF in NBA history for 5 years now.
I don't know. I love Timmy, but five years ago I don't think I could, in good conscience, put him above Barkley just because he hadn't put in enough time yet. I'm surprised at how often I have to remind people of just how good he was. We used to go see the Suns in San Antonio every year with a trip or two to Houston as well. Barkley was great as a rebounder, defender, and post player, but he became such a good shooter that it made him all but impossible to guard by his MVP year. Paul Westphal said Barkley was the best shooter he had on the Suns, and that's high praise, considering the number of great shooters on that team.

[baseline bum]

I don't know. I love Timmy, but five years ago I don't think I could, in good conscience, put him above Barkley just because he hadn't put in enough time yet. I'm surprised at how often I have to remind people of just how good he was. We used to go see the Suns in San Antonio every year with a trip or two to Houston as well. Barkley was great as a rebounder, defender, and post player, but he became such a good shooter that it made him all but impossible to guard by his MVP year. Paul Westphal said Barkley was the best shooter he had on the Suns, and that's high praise, considering the number of great shooters on that team.

I love Chuck too. He was always my second favorite player (after David of course) from the mid 80s until the mid 90s, and I watched every single game of his that I could find on tv (and plenty at Hemisfair and the Dome too). Chuck couldn't play defense for shit though. :lol

The way Tim carried that 2002 team put him at #1 in my book. David was injured a lot of the time, Bruce Bowen missed 20 something games, Tony Parker was still at a level where he should have been playing 20 minutes, not 30-35 a night, and Steve Smith played like he was wearing a pair of cement shoes, and yet, Duncan carried that team to 58 wins (I believe). He once again put up huge numbers in the postseason. His 35-25 game 5 in LA was beautiful. Duncan became Groundhog Day that year; every single night he gave an MVP performance.

[K-State Spur]

I don't know. I love Timmy, but five years ago I don't think I could, in good conscience, put him above Barkley just because he hadn't put in enough time yet. I'm surprised at how often I have to remind people of just how good he was. We used to go see the Suns in San Antonio every year with a trip or two to Houston as well. Barkley was great as a rebounder, defender, and post player, but he became such a good shooter that it made him all but impossible to guard by his MVP year. Paul Westphal said Barkley was the best shooter he had on the Suns, and that's high praise, considering the number of great shooters on that team.

Should have watched him a little closer, he didn't put forth any effort on defense - and he admits that.

[TDMVPDPOY]

tims not the best, his the fuckn greatest!!!

yet even the goat of pF cant even crack the top1o all time players likst, at best TD is only 11-15....

[Obstructed_View]

Should have watched him a little closer, he didn't put forth any effort on defense - and he admits that.
He may not have put forth effort on defense for 48 minutes a night, but don't make the mistake of thinking it means he wasn't a great individual defender. Only somebody that didn't watch him with Mahorn in Philly or that didn't watch him defend David in the 90's would say something so foolish.

[jaespur21]

Should have watched him a little closer, he didn't put forth any effort on defense - and he admits that.

In my eyes, and ive been dribbling a basketball since i was 4, Tim Duncan is the greatest player ever. He can do it all. and my brother and i threw blows over this but i dont give a F...Tim is the best baller EVER

[mardigan]

Barkley was a great defender, especially considering he guarded someone much bigger than him on a nightly basis

[GrandeDavid]

Charles' love was awesome. The Spurs fly under the radar but don't plow the earth thanks to Barkley. He's wise. Also, he was obviously pissed at that Phoenix spoof ripping on his being biased and overweight. I think he is objective. He simply does not believe in teams that don't play consistent D when it comes to the playoffs. Historically, that's a very legit viewpoint.

[K-State Spur]

He may not have put forth effort on defense for 48 minutes a night, but don't make the mistake of thinking it means he wasn't a great individual defender. Only somebody that didn't watch him with Mahorn in Philly or that didn't watch him defend David in the 90's would say something so foolish.

Nah, I'm gonna stand by my statement. Charles himself has admitted that many times on TNT.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the only thing alot of the haters out there criticise about tims game is that he should be playing as center, which is a load of bs.

[baseline bum]

Barkley himself admitted the only worse defender in the league than him was Larry Bird.

[jaespur21]

Barkley was a great defender, especially considering he guarded someone much bigger than him on a nightly basis

Very True....Al Harrington now with the warriors is alot like charles but nowhere near charleszzz status

[TDMVPDPOY]

Very True....Al Harrington now with the warriors is alot like charles but nowhere near charleszzz status

never ever mention al harringtons name in the same text as charles barkley

[Obstructed_View]

Barkley himself admitted the only worse defender in the league than him was Larry Bird.

:bang

And you obviously don't get the irony of that statement, which is deceptively clever. Bird's probably the only superstar whose defense is more underrated than Barkley's. I'm really surprised that you of all people would whiff on this subject.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I like Chuck because he's not afraid to tell it like it is.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I like Chuck because he's not afraid to tell it like it is.
chuck backs it up though...






donuts :clap

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

He was more of a dick tonight too!

He said Lebron was dumb. He said the Mavs were slipping. He said in a mention about the Lakers and Clippers game being an ugly performance, "because [they suck]" He said Phoenix can't win against us in the second round.

and most importantly...
He said Tim and the Spurs. are the best!

[Borosai]

If Timmay could only shoot FTs, he'd be perfect. As is, he is greatness. Nobody's perfect.

[Jimcs50]

I love Chuck, but he is totally off base in saying SA will win the West. Dallas is just too damn good and too well coached for them to lose the west. They are a lock.

[DarrinS]

I love Chuck, but he is totally off base in saying SA will win the West. Dallas is just too damn good and too well coached for them to lose the west. They are a lock.


Pessimist alert.


By the way, do you think Avery Johnson will study film of last nights game? There's a reason that the Suns had their lowest scoring half of the season. Wow, that rhymes.

[Cry Havoc]

I love Chuck, but he is totally off base in saying SA will win the West. Dallas is just too damn good and too well coached for them to lose the west. They are a lock.

When did boutons_ start reproducing? :lol

[Extra Stout]

I love Chuck, but he is totally off base in saying SA will win the West. Dallas is just too damn good and too well coached for them to lose the west. They are a lock.
I see what you are trying to do there, but I don't think a Spurs fan can jinx the Mavs.

[wildbill2u]

I know everyone here hates Karl Malone, but I think he was better than Chuck.

Barkley is one of those guys who was hated when he played but has become revered afterward because he's an entertaining guy on air. Not that he wasn't a hell of a player.

[PM5K]

Tim is a center...

[spursfan09]

either way he is one the greatest players of all time. ^^^

[aaronstampler]

Tim is the player of the decade, not Kobe, not AI. Tim is the best combination of offense and defense of any elite player in the league.

[Testing]

Pessimist alert.


By the way, do you think Avery Johnson will study film of last nights game? There's a reason that the Suns had their lowest scoring half of the season. Wow, that rhymes.


That's not considered a rhyme :wtf

[mabber]

I know everyone here hates Karl Malone, but I think he was better than Chuck.
Barkley is one of those guys who was hated when he played but has become revered afterward because he's an entertaining guy on air. Not that he wasn't a hell of a player.

I do as well.

[Rummpd]

List is ok but James Worthy, Spencer Haywood (vastly under-rated), Elgin Baylor, Kevin McHale and many others deserve consideration.

When he first came in the league thought S. Kemp would be on the list but alas wine, woman, and "a little help from my friends" ended that one.

[mardigan]

Yea, Kemp was sick for a 4 or 5 year span. I also though Larry Johnson was going to end up being a all time great before the constant injuries

[mabber]

List is ok but James Worthy, Spencer Haywood (vastly under-rated), Elgin Baylor, Kevin McHale and many others deserve consideration.

When he first came in the league thought S. Kemp would be on the list but alas wine, woman, and "a little help from my friends" ended that one.

Worthy was great but wasn't he more of a small forward? Didn't the Lakers use guys like Rambus as their power forward?

[mardigan]

Yea, Worthy was 6-9, but he did play small forward

[Kevin Blackistone]

Pessimist alert.


By the way, do you think Avery Johnson will study film of last nights game? There's a reason that the Suns had their lowest scoring half of the season. Wow, that rhymes.

Wow. Every Jimcs post gets the same people saying the same thing. It's damn funny. Go into the college forum and check the "Gillespie is inked" thread to see this man's power. It's voodoo, I tell ya!

[wildbill2u]

List is ok but James Worthy, Spencer Haywood (vastly under-rated), Elgin Baylor, Kevin McHale and many others deserve consideration.

When he first came in the league thought S. Kemp would be on the list but alas wine, woman, and "a little help from my friends" ended that one.
Man, it's tough to rate all these great PFs. Maurice Lucas was also a hoss.

And your right on about Heywood. I forgot why his career got cut short.

[wildbill2u]

Worthy was great but wasn't he more of a small forward? Didn't the Lakers use guys like Rambus as their power forward?
Nope, "Silk" Wilkes was the SF. Rambis came in as their super hustle sub big guy. He was like a rough and tumble Bonner who couldn't shoot.

[mabber]

Nope, "Silk" Wilkes was the SF. Rambis came in as their super hustle sub big guy. He was like a rough and tumble Bonner who couldn't shoot.

I don't recall Wilkes & Worthy starting together but I could be wrong. I do know that Rambis started at some point. I'm sure he came off the bench as well.

[dbreiden83080]

To me i just go with

1)Timmy
2)Malone

Everyone else from 3 down is a debate. If KG gets out of Minnesota and gets a ring i may rank him ahead of Malone and behind Timmy.

[dbreiden83080]

Tim is the player of the decade, not Kobe, not AI. Tim is the best combination of offense and defense of any elite player in the league.

I think Tim has been the best player in the NBA since Jordan retired.

[mardigan]

Nope, "Silk" Wilkes was the SF. Rambis came in as their super hustle sub big guy. He was like a rough and tumble Bonner who couldn't shoot.
Sorry to disagree, but he was the small forward. Players like Green, Rambis, McAdoo, Kupchak, and Thompson were more of the pfs than Worthy ever was. And Silkes only played with Worthy for 3 seasons, 9 less than how many he played in his career

[spurs1990]

For whatever reason, Barkley has gone on the record in predicting the Spurs to be champs every season since 2003. He believes the Spurs had the best squad the last five GD years. Not sure if this is objective anaylsis or blatant favoritism towards the Spurs deliberate '90's era' style of play.

He definitely currys favor with me with the constant Spurs props.

[ambchang]

Karl Malone was overrated, he benefits from Stockton the same way Amare benefits from Nash.
Yes, he was still great, but I would rate Barkley and McHale over him every day.
BTW, just went to NBA.com and watch some of those top ten dunks by Shawn Kemp, that man was really amazing, I haven't seen anything before or since. Just an incredible athlete.

[mabber]

For whatever reason, Barkley has gone on the record in predicting the Spurs to be champs every season since 2003. He believes the Spurs had the best squad the last five GD years. Not sure if this is objective anaylsis or blatant favoritism towards the Spurs deliberate '90's era' style of play.
He definitely currys favor with me with the constant Spurs props.

I've come around on Charles in regards to a lot of his NBA opinions. I don't have an issue with him picking the Spurs to win it all. They've won 2 titles with the core of this current squad already and are playing well now so it's not like he's really going out on a limb.

Even though I think the Spurs are better than the Suns I do want the Spurs to beat the Suns in the 2nd round cuz the Mavs matchup better with the Spurs than they do with the Suns.

As much as the regular season doesn't really mean much, this appears to be a good year to have the #1 seed so you don't have to defeat 2 of the big 3 to win the west. We will see how it plays out. I just hope all three teams stay healthy for the duration.

[mabber]

Karl Malone was overrated, he benefits from Stockton the same way Amare benefits from Nash.Yes, he was still great, but I would rate Barkley and McHale over him every day.
BTW, just went to NBA.com and watch some of those top ten dunks by Shawn Kemp, that man was really amazing, I haven't seen anything before or since. Just an incredible athlete.

Going with that angle, didn't Barkley benefit from playing with KJ? KJ was a damn good point guard. He might not have been as good as passer as Stockton & Nash but he was as good in most other areas. Teams definitely had to account for him which would have helped Charles out.

[mardigan]

Going with that angle, didn't Barkley benefit from playing with KJ? KJ was a damn good point guard. He might not have been as good as passer as Stockton & Nash but he was as good in most other areas. Teams definitely had to account for him which would have helped Charles out.
Yea, but Barkley played as long without KJ and was just as good, Malone never played without Stockton, except that last year. But dont get me wrong, I think Malone was great, and would have been great Stockton or no

[mabber]

Yea, but Barkley played as long without KJ and was just as good, Malone never played without Stockton, except that last year. But dont get me wrong, I think Malone was great, and would have been great Stockton or no

Good point. I'm not really arguing for Malone over Barkley anyway. If forced to decide, I'd rank Malone ahead of Barkley but it's really close in my mind. I think Malone would have been great w/o Stockton but he wouldn't have scored as many points.

[mardigan]

Good point. I'm not really arguing for Malone over Barkley anyway. If forced to decide, I'd rank Malone ahead of Barkley but it's really close in my mind. I think Malone would have been great w/o Stockton but he wouldn't have scored as many points.
Probably not, and I personally think that if Barkley would have played with Stockton, the Jazz would have won a title and Barkley would have scored even more points, but that is debatable. The only thing that puts Barkley ahead in my mind was Barkleys heart. He was so much smaller than anyone he ever faced, but would never let anyone get the best of him. That, and he always wanted the big shot, I loved that about him

[mabber]

Probably not, and I personally think that if Barkley would have played with Stockton, the Jazz would have won a title and Barkley would have scored even more points, but that is debatable. The only thing that puts Barkley ahead in my mind was Barkleys heart. He was so much smaller than anyone he ever faced, but would never let anyone get the best of him. That, and he always wanted the big shot, I loved that about him

He definitely had more range than Malone.

[nsrammstein]

I think Tim has been the best player in the NBA since Jordan retired.

It's a toss up between Duncan and Shaq. Also which retirement are you talking about? the 2003 retirement or the 1998 retirement?

[BUMP]

In my eyes Tim Duncan is the greatest player ever.

i know this is SpursTalk but if you saw any Wilt Chamberlain highlights you'd throw this statement out the window. dude averaged 50 points in a season

:drunk

[mardigan]

i know this is SpursTalk but if you saw any Wilt Chamberlain highlights you'd throw this statement out the window. dude averaged 50 points in a season

:drunk
Damn, you must be damn old if you saw Wilt play

[mabber]

Damn, you must be damn old if you saw Wilt play

I recall seeing Wilt play (on tv) with the '71-72 Lakers (I think that was the season). It was in NBA finals that they won. They had Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Happy Hairston, Jim McMillan and Wilt. I believe it was the year that Elgin Baylor retired early in the season but I could be wrong. I think Pat Riley may have been on the squad as well. I was only 8 but it was the first time I really started following hoops.

[mardigan]

I recall seeing Wilt play (on tv) with the '71-72 Lakers (I think that was the season). It was in NBA finals that they won. They had Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Happy Hairston, Jim McMillan and Wilt. I believe it was the year that Elgin Baylor retired early in the season but I could be wrong. I think Pat Riley may have been on the squad as well. I was only 8 but it was the first time I really started following hoops.
That is a bad ass story, getting to see maybe the best player ever. The coolest thing that ever happened to me was meeting Mickey Mantle when he was old, but the nicest guy ever

[T Park]

Barkley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Malone

[mabber]

That is a bad ass story, getting to see maybe the best player ever. The coolest thing that ever happened to me was meeting Mickey Mantle when he was old, but the nicest guy ever

I had no clue at the time how good he had been/was and what his history was though :lol

[conversekid]

I agree with Jim about the Mavs. That doesn't mean I'm pessimistic or a fair weather fan. I think the Spurs are great; they're the second best team in the league. The Mavs have done to SA, what SA did to LA. We kept getting beat by the Lakers. Each year we added pieces to the team designed to defeat LA... finally it worked. Dallas has done the same thing. We've owned them the last few years. Each year they've tweaked their team to matchup against us - from the coach all the way to the players. That's why the Suns run them out of the gymn - they don't match well against the Suns, but they do against us (Even though in a 7 game series, I think the Mavs would beat the Suns). I still think the Spurs "can" beat the Mavs... I just think Dallas has the mojo this year.

[T Park]

I just think Dallas has the mojo this year.

regular season mojo means everything!!!

Sincerely,

1995 San Antonio Spurs

[slayermin]

The way Tim carried that 2002 team put him at #1 in my book. David was injured a lot of the time, Bruce Bowen missed 20 something games, Tony Parker was still at a level where he should have been playing 20 minutes, not 30-35 a night, and Steve Smith played like he was wearing a pair of cement shoes, and yet, Duncan carried that team to 58 wins (I believe). He once again put up huge numbers in the postseason. His 35-25 game 5 in LA was beautiful. Duncan became Groundhog Day that year; every single night he gave an MVP performance.

That series against the Lakers was much closer than the 4-1 finish.

Also, Bob Pettit deserves a mention as number two or three among the greatest PF's of all time.

[T Park]

could've easily been 4-1 spurs, no question.

[TDMVPDPOY]

could've easily been 4-1 spurs, no question.

We all know who to blame for pulling a copperfield dissappearing act in the limelight....

[Capt Bringdown]

I'd take Malone over Barkley, but it'd be close. Imagine if Barkley had Malone's size?

Surprised no one's mentioned Elvin Hayes, who truly deserves to be ahead of Barkley and even Malone.
He took the Bullets to the NBA finals 3 times, winning once. Was a hell of a scorer, rebounder and shot blocker.
Reportedly had an abrasive personality and didn't get along with coaches and teammates very well.

[T Park]

We all know who to blame for pulling a copperfield dissappearing act in the limelight....




Steve Smith?

[slayermin]

Surprised no one's mentioned Elvin Hayes, who truly deserves to be ahead of Barkley and even Malone.
He took the Bullets to the NBA finals 3 times, winning once. Was a hell of a scorer, rebounder and shot blocker.
Reportedly had an abrasive personality and didn't get along with coaches and teammates very well.

Elvin Hayes was a power forward?

[spurs1990]

We all know who to blame for pulling a copperfield dissappearing act in the limelight....



Terry Porter? Antonio Daniels? Cherokee Parks? Who pray tell?

[slayermin]

If he wasn't such a pussy, he would be playing Center like he's supposed too.

Instead, San Antonio uses soldiers like Nazr Mohammed, Oberto and the almighty Rasho to do his dirty work.

TD plays the five most of the game anyway. And the opposing coach usually puts their starting center to guard TD. He is a center these days. He's just listed as the PF in the starting lineup.

[Capt Bringdown]

Elvin Hayes was a power forward?
Yes indeed.

"One of the most talented power forwards to ever play the game..." (http://www.nba.com/history/players/hayes_summary.html)

[Johnny RIngo]

If he(Dirk) wasn't such a pussy, he would be playing Power Foward like he's supposed too.

Instead, Dallas uses soldiers like Dampier and the almighty Diop to do his dirty work in the post.

FIX'D

[wildbill2u]

Probably not, and I personally think that if Barkley would have played with Stockton, the Jazz would have won a title and Barkley would have scored even more points, but that is debatable. The only thing that puts Barkley ahead in my mind was Barkleys heart. He was so much smaller than anyone he ever faced, but would never let anyone get the best of him. That, and he always wanted the big shot, I loved that about him
Barkley was the greatest player I ever saw at dribbling with his back to the basket long enough that he changed his pivot foot and the refs never caught him at it. I guess that comes under the rubric of being a 'crafty veteran'. :clap

I'd love to be able to ask him about it someday.

[clubalien]

Tim is a center...
I agree tim is more a center than a PF and with davids athliatic abilitiy i would argue he is more a pF then a center.

Now if you admit tim really is a center then you have to release he isn't the best.

David was good as a cetner top 50 all time list and even he wasn't the best center.

But it really is nice being blessed with david and tim which everyone agree are top level talent. And god keeps the tradition alive when Ian comes here :D

[K-State Spur]

Now if you admit tim really is a center then you have to release he isn't the best.


Tim's plays a lot of center now. The majority of his career has been at the '4' though.

Hell, do you all remember Pop's super big line-up of Robinson, Perdue, and Duncan in the game at the same time with Duncan at the '3'?

[TheTruth]

Tim's led his teams to championships. None of the other PF's mentioned have. Head and shoulders. Head and shoulders.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I love Chuck, but he is totally off base in saying SA will win the West. Dallas is just too damn good and too well coached for them to lose the west. They are a lock.

Thank you Jim!



I understand what you're doing....stick with it brother!!

[mabber]

Barkley was the greatest player I ever saw at dribbling with his back to the basket long enough that he changed his pivot foot and the refs never caught him at it. I guess that comes under the rubric of being a 'crafty veteran'. :clap

I'd love to be able to ask him about it someday.

Wow, I had forgotten about him getting away with that all those years. I guess it never really bothered me as he was never on a team that I liked or disliked.

Makes you wonder how teams would defend a player like that in today's game. You don't see too many players back a player down while dribbling the whole time very often in today's NBA. I suppose they would just immediately double him and make him pass out of it.

[Extra Stout]

Tim's led his teams to championships. None of the other PF's mentioned have. Head and shoulders. Head and shoulders.
Knees and toes.

[dg7md]

We all like him because he is a Spurs homer, if he were a Mavs homer we'd hate him. :lol