Ludden: Spurs' small unit offers versatility

[Kori Ellis]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA040707.01C.BKNspurs.warriors.36e0f2d.html

Spurs' small unit offers versatility

Web Posted: 04/06/2007 11:00 PM CDT

Johnny Ludden
Express-News

Bruce Bowen stands 6-foot-7 and allegedly weighs as much as 200 pounds, which, of course, may qualify him as a hulking power forward when the Spurs play host to the Golden State Warriors tonight.
Warriors coach and small-ball pioneer Don Nelson has no qualms about substituting speed for size, and, of late, that's meant starting 6-9 Al Harrington — who is considered undersized as a power forward — at center.

"That's Nellie," said Spurs guard Michael Finley, who played under Nelson for eight seasons in Dallas. "For them, that lineup has been successful. He's the kind of coach that's going to stick with it and more or less have teams prepare for him than him have to prepare for them.

"That's been his philosophy for years now."

The Spurs, in the words of coach Gregg Popovich, are "fairly committed to trying to stay big" this season. That was evidenced Thursday when Popovich often kept either Francisco Elson or Fabricio Oberto on the floor next to Tim Duncan in the team's 92-85 victory over Phoenix.

But in the past few weeks the Spurs also have successfully employed their own small lineup, using it on those nights when Elson encounters foul trouble, the team needs an extra shooter to erase a deficit, or — as might be the case tonight — the matchups simply make it too difficult to stay big.

"The small lineup is out there to make shots," Popovich said. "They have to make shots. We have good ball movement and more people on the court who can score with that group.

"We have to get good at it. At some point come playoff time teams go small more."

The Spurs used their small lineup to rally past Portland last month, then did the same thing against New Orleans on March 28. Andris Biedrins, who stands 6-11, started at center when the Warriors played the Spurs on March 25, but the Spurs still played small for stretches of their 126-89 victory.

"On those nights when we do go small and we're scoring 120 points it kind of reminds us we are capable of putting points on the board when we need to," Brent Barry said. "It's still about stopping teams, but we can score and get down the court when we let our guys loose a little bit."

Said Suns coach Mike D'Antoni, "I know when they went small with us two years ago (in the conference finals) in Phoenix they killed us with it."

The Spurs experimented with their small lineup during training camp, something they didn't do last season, to get the players familiar with it. When the Spurs do go small, Finley or Bowen usually moves to power forward. Popovich also has sometimes paired Jacque Vaughn in the backcourt with Tony Parker.

"We're still an old-fashioned team as far as starting your regular lineup and making them adjust to you," Bowen said. "But when you have guys like Fin and myself (who can defend) multiple positions, you can do other things on the defensive end, like fronting someone.

"With us going small, it gives us more athleticism and we're quicker, so if we do double-team we can scramble."

Popovich doesn't think the Spurs give up much defensively by playing small, but "against some teams rebounding-wise we have to be a little bit more cautious."

"There were times last year when the small lineup got us," Popovich said, "and (Dallas' Dirk) Nowitzki got some boards."

As a result, the Spurs prioritized finding an athletic center in the offseason. Elson's length and quickness have improved the team's defense. But he also is sometimes prone to foul trouble, which can limit his minutes.

Nelson even started Harrington against 7-6 center Yao Ming on Wednesday in Golden State's victory in Houston. Harrington fronted Yao and the Warriors gave him help. Afterward, Yao admitted to being frustrated.

The Spurs hope Duncan can avoid the same problems.

"This year we're trying to play big against small teams a little bit more than last year," Manu Ginobili said. "It depends on what Pop sees, what he wants. But I think we are comfortable with both."


Notebook: Ginobili said his back was more sore than his left shoulder after he hit the court hard following a drive to the basket Thursday night. He received treatment at practice Friday, but expects to play tonight. "My back is a little tight," Ginobili said. "I was trying to loosen it up with the trainer, but no big deal. I'm all bone. The bones hit the floor pretty hard." ... Popovich said Barry had another MRI, which showed his back is improving. Barry is still expected to miss another game or two.

[Kevin Blackistone]

Hope Barry doesn't lose his stroke with the layoff. Should have a few games in the end to get the conditioning back and the shot well before the PO

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

"We have to get good at it. At some point come playoff time teams go small more."

:vomit:

[timvp]

"We have to get good at it. At some point come playoff time teams go small more."

Oh hell no. Small ball is going to be death in the playoffs. It might work against the Suns, but that's about it.

Nellie invented small ball, but even he'd blush at the midget ball lineup of Vaughn, Parker, Manu, Finley and Duncan that Pop has been using. Having two point guards and two shooting guards on the court at the same time is something I've never seen in an NBA game ... until Pop started trotting out that lineup.

If the Spurs even make it to the Mavs, it'd be shame to go down in flames all because of small ball.


"There were times last year when the small lineup got us," Popovich said, "and (Dallas' Dirk) Nowitzki got some boards."

Understatement of the millennium :lmao :lmao

The Mavs have outrebounded the Spurs in 14 straight games. Fourteen. The problem is a lot deeper than "Dirk got some boards".

If the Spurs don't stay big enough against the Mavs to rebound the ball, they can't win the series. It'd be impossible.

But those thoughts are premature because if small ball is going to be played in the first two rounds of the playoffs, I'm not sure the Spurs even make it to the Mavs.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I agree with Timvp completely


If anything, after last nights win, I thought Pop would be moving AWAY from small ball and sticking to his bread and butter (playing with 2 bigs, not one)

[Slomo]

.

[Mr. Body]

Small ball works with the right personnel. Running it with point guards and shooting guards and Duncan isn't the optimal way.

[timvp]

I just don't understand why all of a sudden Pop goes with small ball against the Mavs. Just as recently as 2004-05, the Spurs would stay big against the Mavs and punish Dallas on the boards. And this was Dallas with the same core of Dirk, JHo, Terry, Harris, Dampier, Stack, etc.

That year in the two games in the SBC Center, the Spurs outrebounded the Mavs a combined 96 to 77. Not surprisingly, the Spurs won both games. And not surprisingly, small ball wasn't part of the equation.

Even last year in the regular season against the Mavs, the Spurs won both games they didn't use small ball at all and lost both games they played small ball. In the loses, they played small ball for 16 minutes in one game and 30 minutes in the other.

How much more plain can it be? If the Spurs play small against the Mavs, they get outrebounded and lose. If the Spurs stay big, they usually win.

WTF :pctoss

[Nbadan]

Small ball works in some situations, but POP made it the modus operandi of the Spurs offense playing Dallas and they just didn't have the personnel to compete for the whole series. Fourth quarter of every game in the series should have been the Spurs bigs dominating. That series loss was on POP.

[Bruno]

I don't get why people think Spurs will go small against Mavs.

Spurs have played 3 times agaisnt Mavs this year :
First game : 0 min of small ball
Second game : 0 min of small ball
Third game : 13 min of small ball

Spurs have played small ball only one time against Mavs this year : Elson was out for this game and Spurs have mainly played small ball when Mavs were small with Dirk at C, George/Howard at PF and AJ shouting "double" on Duncan.

Bottomline is that Spurs have gone small mainly when the opposite team goes small and creates matchup problems or when Spurs try to do an unlikely comeback by scoring a lot of points. Smallball has been wisely used this year. The Pacers game is maybe the only example of a bad use of smallball.

[Bruno]

BTW, Hasn't Pop said something like that he likes how Spurs bigs match up with Mavs big, in one of his Pop show ?

[timvp]

I don't get why people think Spurs will go small against Mavs.

When the chips are down, Pop goes small this year. He went big the first couple games against the Mavs, but since then he's lost confidence in Oberto and Horry has been hobbled.

Dirk will get Elson in foul trouble in the first minute of games ... and then what? Pop will go to small ball.


Bottomline is that Spurs have gone small mainly when the opposite team goes small and creates matchup problems or when Spurs try to do an unlikely comeback by scoring a lot of points.
Not true. There have been many games where the Spurs go small as part of the normal rotations. If it was to only match down to opponents or if the Spurs need a comeback, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But that's not the case.


Smallball has been wisely used this year.
:lol

You are probably the one Spurs fan who thinks that.

[aaronstampler]

I don't get why people think Spurs will go small against Mavs.

Spurs have played 3 times agaisnt Mavs this year :
First game : 0 min of small ball
Second game : 0 min of small ball
Third game : 13 min of small ball

Spurs have played small ball only one time against Mavs this year : Elson was out for this game and Spurs have mainly played small ball when Mavs were small with Dirk at C, George/Howard at PF and AJ shouting "double" on Duncan.

Bottomline is that Spurs have gone small mainly when the opposite team goes small and creates matchup problems or when Spurs try to do an unlikely comeback by scoring a lot of points. Smallball has been wisely used this year. The Pacers game is maybe the only example of a bad use of smallball.

The 2nd game I throw out the window, Manu got injured half way through. The 3rd game we just blew. Pop stupidly started Horry instead of Fab and didn't play Oberto nearly enough in the 2nd half even though he was having a good night. It was a tie game half way through the 4th and Pop stupidly switched to smallball and we lost the game.

[aaronstampler]

I don't see why we should ever go small against the Mavs. When we're big we can rebound and take away their lay-ups. When we're small we can't. It's that simple. Pop talks about us being a defensive team first and if that's the case we should stay big.

[Bruno]

When the chips are down, Pop goes small this year. He went big the first couple games against the Mavs, but since then he's lost confidence in Oberto and Horry has been hobbled.

Spurs doesn't go more small than last year while small ball is more and more used in the nba. He has maybe overused small ball lately with Horry out but nothing more.

Oberto has been really bad in the middle of the year, he seem to be back at a less horible level now. "Oberto sucks" was maybe the most written sentence in February on ST (tied with "Udrih sucks" :) ).
Horry has been injured lately and is FG% is 20% in March.
I don't know how you can blame Pop to use them less than at the start of teh season when they were quite good.




:lol

You are probably the one Spurs fan who thinks that.

It's well known that Spurs fans are rational about small ball. It's not like people create a "small ball sucks" thread even when Spurs won a game because of it.



The 2nd game I throw out the window, Manu got injured half way through.

And you don't throw the 3rd game when Elson was injured. :rolleyes



It was a tie game half way through the 4th and Pop stupidly switched to smallball and we lost the game.

That's not what happened.
Spurs lost this game mainly because of Duncan stupidity and not Pop one. Mavs have played without someone able to defend on Duncan and without doubling him in the post. And Duncan hasn't scored because of AJ trick.

[exstatic]

Stay big, play zones or at least SOME zones.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Curious, for you more knowledgeable BB fans. How come Spurs hardly employ zone defense?

I noticed how Miami used the 2-3 Zone in the Finals.
I saw Pop change it up once a couple months ago and had the Spurs trying out their zone against, whoever. I forget but I noticed it was out of the ordinary. (I may be mistaken on this query however.)

[exstatic]

Curious, for you more knowledgeable BB fans. How come Spurs hardly employ zone defense?

I noticed how Miami used the 2-3 Zone in the Finals.
I saw Pop change it up once a couple months ago and had the Spurs trying out their zone against, whoever. I forget but I noticed it was out of the ordinary. (I may be mistaken on this query however.)
Well, one bad thing about zones is that they open up the offensive glass. You don't have a "man" to put a body on and block out. That's why you stay big.

[Solid D]

Having two point guards and two shooting guards on the court at the same time is something I've never seen in an NBA game ... until Pop started trotting out that lineup.

I can recall one...even though the NBA had fewer 7-footers in the early 1970s. The NY Knicks beat Wilt Chamberlain and Jerry West for the NBA title with Walt Frazier and Earl the Pearl in the backcourt (2 lead guards) and Dave DeBusschere (6'5") and Bill Bradley (6"6") in the front court with Willis Reed (Phil Jackson off the bench) in the post.

[ducks]

go solid d

MANU needs to sit out and get fucking healthy

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Curious, for you more knowledgeable BB fans. How come Spurs hardly employ zone defense?

I noticed how Miami used the 2-3 Zone in the Finals.
I saw Pop change it up once a couple months ago and had the Spurs trying out their zone against, whoever. I forget but I noticed it was out of the ordinary. (I may be mistaken on this query however.)


I could've sworn I read somewhere that Pop finds zone defense "cheap" and a bit of a cop out considering how much of a defensive purist he is. I wish I could remember the article, but I remember him saying something along the lines of him not being comfortable using zone often as zone defense was something teams who didn't know how to defend would use a lot.

I think he has too much pride for it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

And people wonder why I criticize Pop's stubbornness.

If he can't see that small ball is a failure against the Mavs, he's being blinded by his own ego and arrogance. Oh well, looks like the season ends in May again.

[exstatic]

And people wonder why I criticize Pop's stubbornness.

If he can't see that small ball is a failure against the Mavs, he's being blinded by his own ego and arrogance. Oh well, looks like the season ends in May again.
Actually, June. They won't meet in the WC semifinals this year.

[timvp]

I can recall one...even though the NBA had fewer 7-footers in the early 1970s. The NY Knicks beat Wilt Chamberlain and Jerry West for the NBA title with Walt Frazier and Earl the Pearl in the backcourt (2 lead guards) and Dave DeBusschere (6'5") and Bill Bradley (6"6") in the front court with Willis Reed (Phil Jackson off the bench) in the post.

Problem is DeBusschere was closer to 6-foot-7 and averaged like 12 boards per game. If Finley, Barry or Bowen averaged 12 boards per game, I'd be all for small ball. But they don't average half of that combined.

Plus Walt Frazier was one of the best rebounding point guards of all-time.

Close though, but I'd list DeBusschere more as more of a small forward who could steal minutes at power forward due to his rebounding.

[itzsoweezee]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA040707.01C.BKNspurs.warriors.36e0f2d.html

Popovich doesn't think the Spurs give up much defensively by playing small

oh hell no. this idiot still hasn't learned.

[picnroll]

And people wonder why I criticize Pop's stubbornness.

If he can't see that small ball is a failure against the Mavs, he's being blinded by his own ego and arrogance. Oh well, looks like the season ends in May again.
Yeah the Spurs got killed by the Mavs in that series. It wasn't like it hinged on a single brain fart by Manu or something. It isn't like it almost worked even with a banged up and less productive Parker and a backup PG who should have been in a nursing home. That Pop sure knows jack. How will the Spurs ever be able to play any small ball when they only have Vaughn to throw at Terry instead of Nick?

[timvp]

I think Pop has gone to the Parker and Vaughn backcourt in preparation of the Mavs. The Spurs had no answer to the Terry and Harris backcourt last year ... now perhaps they do.

It's a pretty decent pairing, as long as two bigs are on the court.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If it weren't for small ball, it would never have come down to one play. And the only reason Manu was there to contest that shot was because he was playing weakside 'power forward' in Pop's brilliant set.

[rocyaice]

Small ball didn't work against the Mavs last post season(I wouldn't say it didn't work. The series came down to a brainfart by Manu) because of personnel and injuries. For limited minutes I don't see any harm in going small against the Mavs especially with Jacque in there instead of Nick or Beno. And last post season defensively small ball is what kept the Mavs from sweeping us IMO. The combination of both Bowen and Finley gave trouble to Dirk. I'd like to see how Elson can contain Dirk though. I think speedwise he can keep up with Dirk and he's long enough to frustrate him. There's no stopping Dirk. He's going to get his. All you can do is hope to not let him go off for 30+ on you.

[rocyaice]

If it weren't for small ball, it would never have come down to one play. And the only reason Manu was there to contest that shot was because he was playing weakside 'power forward' in Pop's brilliant set.

Maybe he should've just let Dirk have the play rathe than foul him for the and 1?

[picnroll]

I think Pop has gone to the Parker and Vaughn backcourt in preparation of the Mavs. The Spurs had no answer to the Terry and Harris backcourt last year ... now perhaps they do.

It's a pretty decent pairing, as long as two bigs are on the court.
I guess that dumb coach got lucky when he made Vaughn his frist priority in the off season.

[ducks]

If it weren't for small ball, it would never have come down to one play. And the only reason Manu was there to contest that shot was because he was playing weakside 'power forward' in Pop's brilliant set.


I love how manu homers spin that
if tp did that they would have been thousands of trade tp threads

[picnroll]

If it weren't for small ball, it would never have come down to one play. And the only reason Manu was there to contest that shot was because he was playing weakside 'power forward' in Pop's brilliant set.
Couldn't be that, as the Mavs were down three with seconds to go, Pop wanted players out there who could guard the perimeter against the three. Driving to the basket for a two would have been perfect except Manu fucked up.

[bdictjames]

Lets just hope 2006-Western semifinal Duncan appears again when we need him.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I just don't understand why all of a sudden Pop goes with small ball against the Mavs. Just as recently as 2004-05, the Spurs would stay big against the Mavs and punish Dallas on the boards. And this was Dallas with the same core of Dirk, JHo, Terry, Harris, Dampier, Stack, etc.

That year in the two games in the SBC Center, the Spurs outrebounded the Mavs a combined 96 to 77. Not surprisingly, the Spurs won both games. And not surprisingly, small ball wasn't part of the equation.

Even last year in the regular season against the Mavs, the Spurs won both games they didn't use small ball at all and lost both games they played small ball. In the loses, they played small ball for 16 minutes in one game and 30 minutes in the other.

How much more plain can it be? If the Spurs play small against the Mavs, they get outrebounded and lose. If the Spurs stay big, they usually win.

WTF :pctoss



This needs to be emailed to Pop.

Last year's Dallas series was frustrating as a fan of real Spurs basketball.

[T Park]

I think Pop has gone to the Parker and Vaughn backcourt in preparation of the Mavs. The Spurs had no answer to the Terry and Harris backcourt last year ... now perhaps they do.



so if he trots that out there with Duncan, Elson, and Ginobili, is everyone gonna have a hissy fit like they are now?


Christ...

[T Park]

Now I re read the article.

Some playoff teams go small.

Ok, so lets say, Phoenix goes small, and the Spurs go small and beat em, like they did the other night.


He said, SOME teams, in the playoffs.

he didn't say "Were gotta get good at small ball because were gonna play it vs Dallas."


How about, letting the games play out first before firing pop.


Christ.

[T Park]

Couldn't be that, as the Mavs were down three with seconds to go, Pop wanted players out there who could guard the perimeter against the three. Driving to the basket for a two would have been perfect except Manu fucked up.

shhhh

don't let facts get in the way.

In that timeout he screamed and sceamed NO THREES, GUARD THE PERIMITER.

In that case, let em get the two.

You get the ball, time out, inbound to Manu, get fouled, make the free throws, then guard the perimiter again.

There was only a few seconds left.

[Kori Ellis]

so if he trots that out there with Duncan, Elson, and Ginobili, is everyone gonna have a hissy fit like they are now?


Christ...

Oh I think Bowen will be playing against the Mavs.

[T Park]

More than likely.

I just don't see the part where he says "Weve got to prepare for small ball vs the Mavs."

[Kori Ellis]

More than likely.

I just don't see the part where he says "Weve got to prepare for small ball vs the Mavs."

He doesn't say it in this article but he's said it on the Pop Show before.

[Kori Ellis]

I think Pop is just preparing for the fact that Elson is often in foul trouble and Oberto just isn't fast enough to play that much with Phoenix/Dallas. Also, who knows if Horry will be healthy.

So we'll probably see some Duncan/Bonner front courts, as well as some time with Duncan/Finley or Duncan/Bowen up front with a three guard set. As long as they don't get caught overplaying the small lineups, they should be fine.

[T Park]

Well then wheres the freaking out in those threads, after the audio is posted?

[Kori Ellis]

Well then wheres the freaking out in those threads, after the audio is posted?

Don't know. If you are dying to hear it, you can go to the Ticket site and listen to all the shows for the season. All the shows aren't all online though. I know I've heard him mention more than once this season about playing small vs Dallas and Phoenix. He's been playing small pretty often for the last month or so too - obviously he's prepping for the playoffs. If Elson would have improved a lot, then we probably wouldn't see small ball so much - but he hasn't done much lately besides a big outburst game every once in a while.

The Spurs having the versatility to go big and go small isn't such a bad thing, as long as they don't go small in huge stretches. I just wish our bigs were better.

[Pugglekicker_21]

if we end up with eaither the 3 seed or 2nd seed, I am confidentthe Spurs can handle the Nuggets the same way we handle Phoenix: by slowing down the game and manhandling their people, like Melo and Iverson. Im not sure, but I think Bowen could stop Iverson, but I think Allen would be faster and make it an advantage for Denver. If Bowen gets Melo, who i think is a SF, then he will lock him down, or at least slow him down enough. TP is fast enough for Iverson, but I think whoever would be starting at Sg, either Barry or Manu, would have the responsibility of not having him go off on us.

If we have the three seed and pull the Lakers, I think if we can keep Kobe under 50, we'll win it in 5, maybe six. As for the Nuggets, I'll give it a swep at 70%, a 5 game series in 50%, and a six game series in between 40% and 60%.

We know how to beat the Suns, but I say they take at least one, probaly two games away from us.

then we have the task of beating the almighty Mavs. I think if we draw the Nuggets and then the Suns, we might be a little tired by the time the Western Conference Finals come, and the Mavs could have the advantage of not having to play run and gun teams through the playoffs.

[T Park]

Well lets say elson gets in foul trouble.

Do you feel comfortable with Oberto on Nowitzki?


If Horry is healthy ENOUGH, sure you put him on him.


But if Elson gets dumb fouls, then going big isn't an option.

[Extra Stout]

If Elson stays in foul trouble, then the Spurs otherwise do not have the personnel to match up with Dallas (their bigs are too slow and small ball gets killed on the glass), and they will lose. Small ball, I guess, is a last-ditch attempt to try to outscore the Mavs, since either way defensively they are screwed.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

The Spurs, in the words of coach Gregg Popovich, are "fairly committed to trying to stay big" this season.

That is very, very bad news...



for the Suns and Mavericks

[anonymous coward]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA040707.01C.BKNspurs.warriors.36e0f2d.html

Spurs' small unit offers versatility

Web Posted: 04/06/2007 11:00 PM CDT

Johnny Ludden
Express-News

Bruce Bowen stands 6-foot-7 and allegedly weighs as much as 200 pounds, which, of course, may qualify him as a hulking power forward when the Spurs play host to the Golden State Warriors tonight.
Warriors coach and small-ball pioneer Don Nelson has no qualms about substituting speed for size, and, of late, that's meant starting 6-9 Al Harrington — who is considered undersized as a power forward — at center.

"That's Nellie," said Spurs guard Michael Finley, who played under Nelson for eight seasons in Dallas. "For them, that lineup has been successful. He's the kind of coach that's going to stick with it and more or less have teams prepare for him than him have to prepare for them.

"That's been his philosophy for years now."

The Spurs, in the words of coach Gregg Popovich, are "fairly committed to trying to stay big" this season. That was evidenced Thursday when Popovich often kept either Francisco Elson or Fabricio Oberto on the floor next to Tim Duncan in the team's 92-85 victory over Phoenix.

But in the past few weeks the Spurs also have successfully employed their own small lineup, using it on those nights when Elson encounters foul trouble, the team needs an extra shooter to erase a deficit, or — as might be the case tonight — the matchups simply make it too difficult to stay big.

"The small lineup is out there to make shots," Popovich said. "They have to make shots. We have good ball movement and more people on the court who can score with that group.

"We have to get good at it. At some point come playoff time teams go small more."

The Spurs used their small lineup to rally past Portland last month, then did the same thing against New Orleans on March 28. Andris Biedrins, who stands 6-11, started at center when the Warriors played the Spurs on March 25, but the Spurs still played small for stretches of their 126-89 victory.

"On those nights when we do go small and we're scoring 120 points it kind of reminds us we are capable of putting points on the board when we need to," Brent Barry said. "It's still about stopping teams, but we can score and get down the court when we let our guys loose a little bit."

Said Suns coach Mike D'Antoni, "I know when they went small with us two years ago (in the conference finals) in Phoenix they killed us with it."

The Spurs experimented with their small lineup during training camp, something they didn't do last season, to get the players familiar with it. When the Spurs do go small, Finley or Bowen usually moves to power forward. Popovich also has sometimes paired Jacque Vaughn in the backcourt with Tony Parker.

"We're still an old-fashioned team as far as starting your regular lineup and making them adjust to you," Bowen said. "But when you have guys like Fin and myself (who can defend) multiple positions, you can do other things on the defensive end, like fronting someone.

"With us going small, it gives us more athleticism and we're quicker, so if we do double-team we can scramble."

Popovich doesn't think the Spurs give up much defensively by playing small, but "against some teams rebounding-wise we have to be a little bit more cautious."

"There were times last year when the small lineup got us," Popovich said, "and (Dallas' Dirk) Nowitzki got some boards."

As a result, the Spurs prioritized finding an athletic center in the offseason. Elson's length and quickness have improved the team's defense. But he also is sometimes prone to foul trouble, which can limit his minutes.

Nelson even started Harrington against 7-6 center Yao Ming on Wednesday in Golden State's victory in Houston. Harrington fronted Yao and the Warriors gave him help. Afterward, Yao admitted to being frustrated.

The Spurs hope Duncan can avoid the same problems.

"This year we're trying to play big against small teams a little bit more than last year," Manu Ginobili said. "It depends on what Pop sees, what he wants. But I think we are comfortable with both."


Notebook: Ginobili said his back was more sore than his left shoulder after he hit the court hard following a drive to the basket Thursday night. He received treatment at practice Friday, but expects to play tonight. "My back is a little tight," Ginobili said. "I was trying to loosen it up with the trainer, but no big deal. I'm all bone. The bones hit the floor pretty hard." ... Popovich said Barry had another MRI, which showed his back is improving. Barry is still expected to miss another game or two.

more pop's small balls in playoffs??? :lol

forget the championship, even the western conference finals spurs fans

sorry manu :depressed

[Clutch20]

Curious, for you more knowledgeable BB fans. How come Spurs hardly employ zone defense?

I noticed how Miami used the 2-3 Zone in the Finals.
I saw Pop change it up once a couple months ago and had the Spurs trying out their zone against, whoever. I forget but I noticed it was out of the ordinary. (I may be mistaken on this query however.)
I agree with Ammuseddaysleeper, I heard Pop say that he would prefer not to use zones cause he didn't like them, but they do work sometimes and I remember a couple of years back he did use a zone for a few minutes against some team during reg. season but it was gone, never to be seen again.

[T Park]

yeah he hates em so much, he used em to beat the Nets in 03.

[Clutch20]

PopCIA, bless his wineswilling heart, what are the rabbits-in-his-hat this playoff season?

[Next Superstar]

Well if all goes right for my team we are going to force the spurs into small ball tonite.

[whottt]

so if he trots that out there with Duncan, Elson, and Ginobili, is everyone gonna have a hissy fit like they are now?


Christ...


No..I'd love to see that line up against the Mavs.


I also am intrigued by a Parker, Vaughn, Bowen, Elson and Duncan lineup...to me that's the best defensive lineup the Spurs can have against the Mavs..and it isn't small ball.


Pop says he's going to try a bunch of thing...but if we're in the final minute and have a 2 or 3 point lead...I am going to go apeshit if the Finley PF lineup is on the court...

Because they'll get us on the rebounds and post us up at their leisure. Like they did in 8 of our 4 losses last year.

[aaronstampler]

I love how manu homers spin that
if tp did that they would have been thousands of trade tp threads

Curious how little Tony homers have to say about Game 6. You know, the game where Manu and Fin basically bailed Tony out of a nightmare performance?

Why do we continually rehash ancient history on here?

People bring up one dumb Manu play over and over but ignore all that he's done before. Manu has had many heroic playoff perfomances for the Spurs. When exactly was Tony's big, breakout performance? When did that happen? I must have missed it.

Tim and Manu are the two guys on this roster who have immunity for life, period.

[aaronstampler]

so if he trots that out there with Duncan, Elson, and Ginobili, is everyone gonna have a hissy fit like they are now?


Christ...

Playing two PGs with Tim and Frankie is way different than playing it with smallball. I don't like the two PG lineup, but if it must be done, I'd prefer it with the bigs.

And if smallball must be done, I prefer it sans Bowen.

[Extra Stout]

When exactly was Tony's big, breakout performance? When did that happen? I must have missed it.

I guess you miss a lot of games then.

Both sides in the Manu/Tony wars are losers.

[aaronstampler]

Well lets say elson gets in foul trouble.

Do you feel comfortable with Oberto on Nowitzki?


If Horry is healthy ENOUGH, sure you put him on him.


But if Elson gets dumb fouls, then going big isn't an option.


I thought Fab did a pretty decent job on Dirk the last time we played. Dirk had to hit some really tough shots. Fab was having a good game that day and Pop made a big mistake not using him more.

And the game was tied with six minutes to go, Pop switched to smallball for the last six minutes (Tony, Manu, Bruce and Time with first Fin, then Brent)and we lost by five. It was a dumb decision. If you feel you have to play small, then at least take Bruce out.

[Solid D]

Problem is DeBusschere was closer to 6-foot-7 and averaged like 12 boards per game. If Finley, Barry or Bowen averaged 12 boards per game, I'd be all for small ball. But they don't average half of that combined.

Plus Walt Frazier was one of the best rebounding point guards of all-time.

Close though, but I'd list DeBusschere more as more of a small forward who could steal minutes at power forward due to his rebounding.

I inadvertently reversed Bradley's and DeBusschere's heights. DeBusschere was 6'6" 235 in has last 5 years in the NBA with the Knicks. I got to watch a lot of the Knicks' games back then. DeBusschere was the Knicks' Bruce Bowen. He was a premier defender with a nose for the ball. He was basically a SF who could out-rebound even Willis Reed. There were more 10+ rpg guys back then...not quite double what there are nowadays. Bill Bradley was very similar to what Mike Finley is today. Great at curling off screens and excellent catch and shoot scorer. He was 6'5" but he could score at all points on the floor.

Anyways, the Knicks of 1970 and '73 had some similarities to the Spurs, except they were a better rebounding team. They predicated their success on Team Defense. They weren't a very tall team but they had some great outside scorers, as well as some guys who could create.

[T Park]

When exactly was Tony's big, breakout performance? When did that happen? I must have missed it.



Hmm I think of game 3 of the NBA Finals where Parker schooled Jason Kidd, and won the game for them.

But your not a Tony hater though :rolleyes

[aaronstampler]

was that the same finals that he got benched for speedy in games 5 and 6 or a different finals?

[ducks]

dude tp was finals mvp after 4 games

nets changed everything to stop him and he was very young then

speedy is soooooooooooooooo overrated

[Spurminator]

You're devolving into self parody at this point.

[mardigan]

was that the same finals that he got benched for speedy in games 5 and 6 or a different finals?
He had 35 last game, what the fuck are you talking about? How could anyone that claims to be a fan of this team hate one of the best parts? Its retarded to love one player on a team so much that it blinds you to the greatness of the other players

[Man Mountain]

Man, enough with the re-hashing of crap from years ago just to talk crap to each other. It's almost time for the Spurs to start the playoffs. Spurs fans need stop bitching at each at each other and get ready to start bitching at Lakers/Suns/Mavs/Pistons fans on the road to a Championship.

[ducks]

Curious how little Tony homers have to say about Game 6. You know, the game where Manu and Fin basically bailed Tony out of a nightmare performance?

Why do we continually rehash ancient history on here?

People bring up one dumb Manu play over and over but ignore all that he's done before. Manu has had many heroic playoff perfomances for the Spurs. When exactly was Tony's big, breakout performance? When did that happen? I must have missed it.

Tim and Manu are the two guys on this roster who have immunity for life, period.


tony played well last year in playoffs when he was healthy
against mavs he was not healthy


manu against pistons sucked ass shooting on the road

[aaronstampler]

dude tp was finals mvp after 4 games

nets changed everything to stop him and he was very young then

speedy is soooooooooooooooo overrated

By change everything you mean "make him shoot the ball."


Thankfully Tony's game has improved a lot since those days.

[ducks]

By change everything you mean "make him shoot the ball."


Thankfully Tony's game has improved a lot since those days.

no kidding

the point guard is the hardest postion to learn
tony's jumper >>>>>>>>>>aj jumper

[ducks]

Man, enough with the re-hashing of crap from years ago just to talk crap to each other. It's almost time for the Spurs to start the playoffs. Spurs fans need stop bitching at each at each other and get ready to start bitching at Lakers/Suns/Mavs/Pistons fans on the road to a Championship.

I agree I am putting
aaronstampler on my IGNORE list :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

[aaronstampler]

The more I think about '03 the more I realize it was like a miracle that team won. They were so flawed. Tony was young, Manu was just a rookie and was running around like a chicken with his head cut off most of the time, Robinson was practically an invalid and S-Jax was giving me a heart attack every night.

The team absolutely peaked in the playoffs against LA and kind of just hung on against Dallas with no Dirk and a flawed NJ team that couldn't throw it in the ocean. That was a weak year. I think both the '04 and '06 teams were better and the '05 team were WAY better. Basically all we had going for us in '03 was Tim at his absolute peak and maybe Malik too. But that was a lucky team.

[mardigan]

The more I think about '03 the more I realize it was like a miracle that team won. They were so flawed. Tony was young, Manu was just a rookie and was running around like a chicken with his head cut off most of the time, Robinson was practically an invalid and S-Jax was giving me a heart attack every night.

The team absolutely peaked in the playoffs against LA and kind of just hung on against Dallas with no Dirk and a flawed NJ team that couldn't throw it in the ocean. That was a weak year. I think both the '04 and '06 teams were better and the '05 team were WAY better. Basically all we had going for us in '03 was Tim at his absolute peak and maybe Malik too. But that was a lucky team.
:rolleyes

[Man Mountain]

I agree I am putting
aaronstampler on my IGNORE list :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

I was talking to you too. Not just aaron. :lol

Actually I wasn't talking to either of you particularly, just in general, it's time for Spurs fans to band together and stop bickering.

[Man Mountain]

The more I think about '03 the more I realize it was like a miracle that team won. They were so flawed. Tony was young, Manu was just a rookie and was running around like a chicken with his head cut off most of the time, Robinson was practically an invalid and S-Jax was giving me a heart attack every night.

The team absolutely peaked in the playoffs against LA and kind of just hung on against Dallas with no Dirk and a flawed NJ team that couldn't throw it in the ocean. That was a weak year. I think both the '04 and '06 teams were better and the '05 team were WAY better. Basically all we had going for us in '03 was Tim at his absolute peak and maybe Malik too. But that was a lucky team.

Yeah I think it was my favorite title team even though it wasn't the most talented. But all three of the titles were a great ride.

[aaronstampler]

I'm getting more than a little tired of people bring up the foul in game 7 constantly.

[timvp]

Robinson was practically an invalid

:lol

If Robinson was an invalid, what do you call the centers the Spurs have had since then?

[Man Mountain]

I'm getting more than a little tired of people bring up the foul in game 7 constantly.

Yeah people need to get over that too. If it wasn't for Manu, it wouldn't even have been close. He knows he made a mistake. He's done so much for the team everyone should be way past it.

[ducks]

I was talking to you too. Not just aaron. :lol

Actually I wasn't talking to either of you particularly, just in general, it's time for Spurs fans to band together and stop bickering.


I know but IF i ignore him hopefully the bickering will stop :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

[Solid D]

The more I think about '03 the more I realize it was like a miracle that team won. They were so flawed. Tony was young, Manu was just a rookie and was running around like a chicken with his head cut off most of the time, Robinson was practically an invalid and S-Jax was giving me a heart attack every night.

The team absolutely peaked in the playoffs against LA and kind of just hung on against Dallas with no Dirk and a flawed NJ team that couldn't throw it in the ocean. That was a weak year. I think both the '04 and '06 teams were better and the '05 team were WAY better. Basically all we had going for us in '03 was Tim at his absolute peak and maybe Malik too. But that was a lucky team.


Stampler, that's whack. The Spurs won 60 games in 2002-03. They went 19-13 through December and then ran off a 41-9 string to finish the season. That was a lonnnnnnng peak.

[ducks]

you do know that tp is the only guard besides nash to shot over 50% and average over 5 assist a game

[aaronstampler]

:lol

If Robinson was an invalid, what do you call the centers the Spurs have had since then?


I know I know. It makes you appreciate Robinson more. The thing is for 90% of his career, he was THE guy, like how Tim is THE guy now, so you don't think of him as this defensive stopper/rebounder kind of guy.

If Tim and David played their whole careers together, that'd be something.

[Clutch20]

?
Y'all set yourselves up for a difficult time :(

[aaronstampler]

Stampler, that's whack. The Spurs won 60 games in 2002-03. They went 19-13 through December and then ran off a 41-9 string to finish the season. That was a lonnnnnnng peak.


It was just a weird year. The team was in the transition from all Timmy all the time to this largely motion based offense with Tony and Manu now. I'm very appreciative of that championship, like I am all of them, I just think that team got a little lucky where as some others ('04, '06, '95) were unlucky.

[timvp]

Manu has had many heroic playoff perfomances for the Spurs. When exactly was Tony's big, breakout performance? When did that happen? I must have missed it.

Tony has scored >27 points 12 times in his playoff lifetime. Manu has scored >27 points 8 times in his playoff lifetime. Of Parker's 12, 8 of them came on the road. Of Manu's 8, 2 of them came on the road.

Parker has had huge playoff games on the road in must win games. The problem is most Spurs fans just remember how the final game of the Finals ended.

In 2003, Manu sucked in the playoffs outside of the Lakers series, but he's remembered as a superstar because he stole the ball from Richard Jefferson. Speedy Claxton is a cult hero, even though he had like three good games as a Spur (one being, of course, game 6 of the 2003 finals).

Parker's heroics usually have come on the road and earlier in series. Those games aren't remembered.

[ducks]

Someone Got Owned!

[aaronstampler]

Man fuck Ferris Bueller. Tony Parker is my hero now.

[Man Mountain]

Man fuck Ferris Bueller. Tony Parker is my hero now.

Bueller was your hero?


Here's to hoping Manu and Tony both have the playoffs of their lives this year :toast

[aaronstampler]

I like games like Utah where all three guys play well. That might have been my favorite game of the year.*


















* Except the Atlanta and Orlando and Portland games

[timvp]

Tony has scored >27 points 12 times in his playoff lifetime.

In those 12 games, the Spurs are 11-1. In the 13 playoff games lifetime that Parker has had >7 assists, the Spurs are 10-3. There's a reason why Pop wants Parker to score. If he has his own offense rolling, it's almost impossible to beat the Spurs.

Manu and Tim will get theirs in the halfcourt sets. If Parker can breakdown the opposing defense for 30, Spurs win 95% of the time.

Not bad for a guy who has never had a big playoff game.

:smokin

[T Park]

Yeah that Parker is a playoff choker no question.

[ducks]

timvp you should get kori to write an article on that

[T Park]

amazing how aaron has no answer for that.

Im sure itll be

"I DONT HATE PARKER YOU GUYS PICK ON ME FOR NO REASON WAHHHHHH:

[ducks]

In those 12 games, the Spurs are 11-1. In the 13 playoff games lifetime that Parker has had >7 assists, the Spurs are 10-3. There's a reason why Pop wants Parker to score. If he has his own offense rolling, it's almost impossible to beat the Spurs.

Manu and Tim will get theirs in the halfcourt sets. If Parker can breakdown the opposing defense for 30, Spurs win 95% of the time.

Not bad for a guy who has never had a big playoff game.

:smokin


HOPEFULLY NIKOS will take notice


where is ice?

[aaronstampler]

Who is Playing Harder in the Playoffs?

March 13, 2007 5:29 PM

Yesterday I put out a call for some way to measure players who are coasting for at least some of the regular season:


Here's one I've never seen but would love to see: who are the all-time regular season coasters? The guys who just don't play hard for much of the season, saving their knees, and their effort, for the late season and playoffs?

TrueHoop reader and veteran stat junkie Michael Goodman responded with a spreadsheet of stuff that looks really cool, but is hard for my Bachelor of the Arts mind. So I'll let him explain:

PO/RS is Playoff/Regular Season productivity ratio. Both are adjusted for team/opponent pace, year by year. A year with 400 playoff minutes counts 4x as much as a year with 100.

'Net' is calculated by player's (productivity*1.05)*(min/36)*(po/rs) The average po/rs is about .945, so the 1.05 cancels that: Anyone over .945 has a positive net. You may see the player's stats go down -- along with most others' -- but relative to the opponent, his team gains.

Here are the top twenty from his list:

0.945 Net PO/RS POMin Min/36
Robert Horry 555 1.07 6740 187
Tim Duncan 489 1.02 4910 136
Baron Davis 283 1.15 1502 42
Dwyane Wade 240 1.05 2133 59
Manu Ginobili 232
1.05 2253 63
Caron Butler 205 1.24 957 27
Tim Thomas 199 1.12 1705 47
Tayshaun Prince 196 1.03 3165 88
Derek Fisher 182 1.04 3136 87
Paul Pierce 158 1.04 1615 45
Ray Allen 132 1.04 1563 43
Antonio Daniels 126 1.07 1567 44
Richard Hamilton 118 .99 3268 91
Allen Iverson 118 .98 2779 77
Vince Carter 101 1.02 1308 36
James Posey 93 1.10 920 26
Antonio McDyess 91 1.04 1055 29
Kirk Hinrich 90 1.16 520 14
Eric Snow 83 1.00 2212 61
Kenyon Martin 82 .99 2112 59

No one can argue with Robert Horry topping this list. His teammate publicly accused him of as much a couple of years ago. (The only irony there is that the teammate making the accusation is second on this list.)

Shaquille O'Neal, whom I trotted out as the poster boy of taking some time off during the season, comes in 38th. I imagine that's because much of the time when he has been apparently coasting was time when he was on the injured list, and those games, I assume, did not count towards his productivity tally.

In fact, it occurs to me that playing through injuries in the regular season is a great way to get yourself on this list. A lot of the guys here have played at half-speed for stretches of their career. If they had been real coasters, they would have worn street clothes.

I wonder if anyone has a way to further refine this list to get to who it is that is really taking the most time off. (Even Mike himself admits that is not this list: "No," he writes, "I can't call out the 'coasters'. But Tim Thomas is a good start.") There is a difference that I'd like to get at, between Tim Duncan hobbling through almost all of last season on one leg, and whatever it is that Tim Thomas has been doing all these years.

Wow. I just checked out the bottom of the list. These would be people who have been frighteningly productive in the regular season compared to the playoffs. Some of the NBA's bigger playoff disappointments are here, as are several MVP candidates, and some championship winners. The last twenty are:

Jason Kidd, Predrag Stojakovic, Lindsey Hunter, Darrell Armstrong, Radoslav Nesterovic, Brad Miller, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Webber, Sam Cassell, Brent Barry, Bruce Bowen, Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Kobe Bryant, Tony Parker, Shawn Marion, Dale Davis, Jermaine O'Neal, Clifford Robinson, and (bringing up the rear) Gary Payton.

Notice how San Antonio Spurs are all over the top and the bottom of this list? (Theory: these are the guys who pick up the slack when Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili aren't 100%.)

From TrueHoop. Don't shoot the messanger.

[Kori Ellis]

amazing how aaron has no answer for that.

Im sure itll be

"I DONT HATE PARKER YOU GUYS PICK ON ME FOR NO REASON WAHHHHHH:

Didn't I tell you to knock it off?

You aren't bringing anything to the conversation except instigation. STOP!

[timvp]

Don't shoot the messanger.

Um ... I don't think anyone would be surprised that it's Tony who carries the team during the regular season. Duncan doesn't try the first three months of the season and Manu averages like 25 minutes per game.

Plus I don't think there is shame in being next to Kobe. Since when does Kobe not come up big in the playoffs?

[Kori Ellis]

[B]Who is Playing Harder in the Playoffs?

...
From TrueHoop. Don't shoot the messanger.

Yeah I read that a few days ago. I didn't really pay attention to the whole stats of it because Bowen's productivity (3pt shooting % etc) normally goes up in the playoffs IIRC, so I didn't get why he was near the bottom. Anyway, everyone knows that Tim is a playoff beast and Manu has been in recent years too.

[aaronstampler]

It's just that traditionally Tony's numbers have dipped a bit in the playoffs as Manu and Tim's have gone up.

Look, the past doesn't matter. We're going to need all of them to play as well as possible this May and June. This LA-Phx-Dal-Det/Mia gauntlet would be an unprecedented accomplishment for the Spurs.

[Solid D]

It was just a weird year. The team was in the transition from all Timmy all the time to this largely motion based offense with Tony and Manu now. I'm very appreciative of that championship, like I am all of them, I just think that team got a little lucky where as some others ('04, '06, '95) were unlucky.

It was a terrific reformation of a team that had been so very unathletic in the backcourt for several years. The Mavericks got off to a 14-0 start and the Spurs ran them down and won home court. They were extremely clutch and their leaders Tim Duncan (League MVP and Finals MVP) and Coach Popovich (Coach of the Year) figured out how they were to play with their new athleticism.

The Nets were the lucky ones. They finished 2nd in a very weak Eastern Conference at 49-33. Spurs were young and made TOs but they were exciting and very unweird.

[aaronstampler]

I still feel bad to this day for the '95 team. They had size, scoring, defense, depth, everything. In retrospect, a better coach would've been nice.

[timvp]

It's just that traditionally Tony's numbers have dipped a bit in the playoffs as Manu and Tim's have gone up.

Except that Parkers has scored more points per game in the playoffs than the regular season in each year of his career. And his career scoring and assists average in the playoffs are higher than Manu's.

Again, I'm not saying that Parker is better than Manu. In fact, per minute there's no contest that Manu is the better player. But to say that Parker has never had a big game in his playoff career is omitting a litany of good performances.

Eight road games by the age of 24 where you score >27 points in the playoffs in which your team goes 7-1 including multiple must win games doesn't happen to a guy who never shows up in the playoffs. Parker is a phenom in his own right, he just has two of the clutchest players of all-time next to him so he's not a go-to guy in memorable moments.


Look, the past doesn't matter.
Exactly.

[timvp]

I still feel bad to this day for the '95 team. They had size, scoring, defense, depth, everything. In retrospect, a better coach would've been nice.

The '95 team had David Robinson playing out of this world while carrying a team mostly comprised of scrubs as far as humanly possible.

[aaronstampler]

I agree with the other posters here, once the playoffs start, we've got to knock this stuff off. We all gotta pull for all the players from Tim on down to Beno. I think winning the championship this year, esecially as a three seed if it comes down to that, would be by far the most impressive of any title we've won.

I mean it. If we win it this year, then Spurs fans get asked, which title was your favorite of the four, 2007 should be like a unanimous answer.

[ducks]

pop is starting to use tp more in the fourth quarter

this year pop in the playoffs will have another option in the fourth
hopefully tp is ready for it

it also will make it easier for td and manu

[aaronstampler]

The '95 team had David Robinson playing out of this world while carrying a team mostly comprised of scrubs as far as humanly possible.

I don't think they were scrubs. Elliott was at his peak and all star, Rodman was rebounding demon but a headcase, and Johnson and Del Negro were both in their primes. The bench was maybe the deepest we've ever had. Every guy had like a specialty and a role.

[timvp]

I don't think they were scrubs. Elliott was at his peak and all star, Rodman was rebounding demon but a headcase, and Johnson and Del Negro were both in their primes. The bench was maybe the deepest we've ever had. Every guy had like a specialty and a role.

Elliott was a nice player, but not a championship caliber second star. He still wasn't anywhere as tough as he eventually got in '99.

AJ was all heart and invented Spurs Basketball, but he didn't have much talent. Vinny Del Negro was perhaps the worst starting shooting guard in the league. Rodman was all about rebounding, he didn't defend or do anything else. Person couldn't guard a statue and had a habit of disappearing in the playoffs. Doc Rivers makes Jacque Vaughn seem like Mark Price. JR Reid and Terry Cummings were no better than average bench bigmen.

You take David Robinson off that team they have a better chance of finishing the season with the worst record in the league than making the playoffs. That said, with the way Robinson was playing that year, they were probably a few bounces here or there from winning it all. That's how good he was.

[aaronstampler]

Maybe I just have a special place in my heart for them. You never forget your first heartbreak and they were like the first Spurs team that I thought should have won it.

[T Park]

the first team i thought should've won it was 89 90's team.

In retrospect they didn't have a guy who could make a jumper outside 15 feet so its no wonder they didnt.

9495?

Don't even get me started on how overrated that team was....

[aaronstampler]

they were just a lot of fun to watch. That year was by far the most fun I've ever had watching the Spurs before a certain Argentine came along.

[wildbill2u]

Maybe I just have a special place in my heart for them. You never forget your first heartbreak and they were like the first Spurs team that I thought should have won it.
You don't know heartbreak. The real heartbreak was our loss to the Washington team after coming out of the much-reviled 'lesser' ABA into the NBA. That team, led by Silas and Gervin had every promise of winning against the NBA snobs--and you won't find any oldtimer around that doesn't believe we were robbed of the win in that series by the refs.

Thousands (yes thousands) of fans came out to the airport to cheer a LOSING team. And when our Coach Moe got fined for saying "we wuz robbed" a city-wide effort raised the money for the fines--in pennies--in just a few days.

We've had heartbreaks since then, but man, that was one time I cried at the end of the game and also at the airport out of pride for our team and the most loyal fans I'd ever seen.