Don't read this thread if you like ChumpDumper

[whottt]

Because he's going to get destroyed.


Wars America entered into without recieving formal war declarations from Congress:


Korean War
Veitnam War
Persian Gulf War

And...

Hell...The Iraq War...



The Supreme and Federal Courts have overwhelmingly favored Presdiential Authority over Congressional Authority when challenges have been brought before them.



Presidents have time and time again used partical authority ceded by Congress as loopholes to take us into War...and the Courts have ruled in favor of the President, when challenges were made to his authority to do so, I believe 100% of the time since WWII.

Congress already gave Bush the power to do pretty much whatever he wants in the Mid East with the AUMF, and I seriously doubt his court is going to overturn this, since even the Liberal courts have been reluctant to do so. He's definitely got the loophole....

And as big of a moron as the President of Iran is...shit he probably eats breakfast with Usama every day.


Doesn't hurt that the President has the power to determine if a state of war exists....

First time Iran pulls a stunt with American troops...he'll have the authority and it would be AFAIK, a first if the courts don't support him.

That's without attempting to link Iran to 911...something he could easily do....and it doesn't hurt that the President of Iran makes daily threats to the US.



Chump you fucking whiffed...

I know you'll try and twist this...but you are dead wrong here.

You take past recent Presidents refusal to do much action as a lack of authority to do so...that most certainly isn't the case...the Constitution leaves lots of room for argument, arguments usually won by the President.


The President has the greater powers for making true war, than Congress.


Congress really only has a strong say if it's going to be an extended conflict, due to the War Powers Agreement...as you noted, but even that's debatable and can certainly be challenged.


Takes 2/3 of Congress to pull that off IIRC...I don't think they can get 2/3...I don't even think they'll be able to get Leiberman.


It won't take an extended conflict to remove the current regime from power in IRan.

There have been 5 years to forment and organize resistance within IRan..and it's been effective, which is why you see the IRanian government shutting down all the bloggers and newspapers and getting more hardline.

The US could send Iran back to the stone age in a matter of days...the force to do so is already in the Persian Gulf.



And why does everyone think Iran is a military juggernaut...Saddam kicked their ass...we routed Saddam's ass....the first time, and the second.


The Iran military is less experienced now, and our military tactical placement and logistical support are far superior than they were for the Persian Gulf War, or the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.


No...Iran will go easier than Iraq did in the Persian Gulf War...


Why do you think they are trying to get nukes so fast?


Oh...and you'd be surprised what some of our cruise missles can do.


I know you don't believe any of this...

Since I can't show you a photo of the official CIA resistance office in Iran...but you can look back 50 years ago and precedence.

I know you don't believe the US has top secret weaponry capable of massive industrical destrcution...because the US doesn't release formal descriptions of their top secret weaponry...because it's top secret you fucking idiot.


I know...if the US gave the details and announced exactly what they are doing covetly in Iran, then you'd believe me right? You fucking obtuse moron.




Did you notice the British Troops were release before the Brits even had a fucking clue it was happening?

You think it was their dimplomacy that brought that about?

OR the US military surrounding them on all sides and building up in a war formation...with a well documented war monger as their CIC.

Dense bitch...

I can't connect the dots for you Chump...at some point you need common sense.

And Bush has little or nothing to do with the speciffics and details of intelligence gathering, so holding hkm accountable for that is just about the stupidest thing you can do.



Trust me...we have top secret weapons.

Trust me....we have anti-government movements in Iran.

Shit...we have them in Canada...I gurantee you we have them in Iran.

And you know what? Iran has anti-war movements here...that they fund.

In fact...you are one of them, you fucking douche. You just too stupid to realize it.

And trust me...Bush can unload the mother of all bombing campaigns on Iran rigth now if he absolutely has to do so.

[clambake]

Then what's this little problem we're having in Iraq? This should have been the cakewalk they promised. Why don't we use these secret weapons? Are they so secret that we forgot where we put them? Let me guess, the surge troops are not for fighting. Their homesteaders? Yeah, we got them surrounding just like America is surrounded by water. BFD.

The world according to Whottt. Could this be the result of a mental defect, mixed with large quantities of alcohol, then topped off with several hits of acid on a regular basis?

[smeagol]

whottt, that is a long post (and it's not even a fucking article!).

[George Gervin's Afro]

still doesn't change the fact that your hero started an unnecessary war.

:nope

[ggoose25]

sim·ple·ton
noun

1) a person lacking in common sense
2) whottt

[whottt]

Yawn...what part of "don't read this if you like Chump", don't you understand? I was trying to limit the # of idiots posting in the same thread.

Say what you want...but Chump made some bigtime incorrect statements regarding Presidential Power(and other things) and he was wrong.

And now I'm waiting for his response...and while I realize that will probably be nothing more than his typical duck, dodge, twist, re-interpet, the facts...I am still interested...since he made some unusually bold statements(for him), from a position of ignorance(not unusual for him).


In the meantime...I try to keep my idiots in some kind of herd formation because it makes them easier to handle, and you guys have broken herd...so unless you actually have something to contribute...


STFU and go burn a flag or something.

Maybe you can go find a picture of Rumsfeld with Saddam to sum up your entire political IQ?

I know, go protest a volunteer US Soldier and encourage those who stalk him. I know, I know, why would a terrorist get emboldened by US citizens protesting US Soldiers and trying to pull us out of Iraq....what could they possibly gain from US Citizens who do that? Silly fucking me. Still...might as well go do something useful for yourselves, because you're of no use here.

Take a hike.

[clambake]

Using the word "emboldened" makes you a bush bitch. However, the freedom we've given to Iraqi's has resulted in their ability to protest. Guess what they're protesting?

[whottt]

Guess what they're protesting?


The US preventing their power grab?



I'm going to start calling you Sadr Jr.

[clambake]

I thought you had great respect for leaders with power to order our troops? We gave Sadr the best of both Iraqi worlds. Bush may be the best fuckup that ever lived.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao @ whottt, how many days did it take you to make this up?

Did I ever use the words formal declaration of war?

Of course not.

You made it up.

You lied.

You are owned once more.

[ChumpDumper]

Really whottt, I take a little vacation and the best you can come up with is a lie?

I'd love to argue with you, but you can't even read anymore.

It's sad in a way, but pretty predictable given how badly things have gone for your boy the past coulple of years.

Please google the War Powers Act of 1973 to find out just how wrong you are.

[ChumpDumper]

Trust me.:lol

You just said Iran will be a cakewalk, whotttowitz.

Look, I have no doubts about the American military's ability to blow things up and kill people. No doubt whatsoever. A war with Iran wouldn't be a very long one and we'd win militarily.

Your problem is and always has been that you think that's all there is to it.

Afghanistan and Iraq have proven you wrong on that, not matter how much you deny it.

Sure, Bush can try to to go off the reservation and use or make up some Gulf of Tonkin incident to get a war started -- but then what? It's going to last longer and cost more than anything he's done before. And who allocates the money and allows permission in that case?

Yeah, you guessed it -- congress.

Sorry, whottt -- that's the way it goes.

Since you're all up on all the military's secret weapons and tactics and our CIA presence in Iran -- why don't you tell me how many troops will be needed to invade and occupy Iran.

[clambake]

Not to mention the uniformed Iraqi soldiers that joined in on the protest today. Yep, I think they have plans that don't include us.

[whottt]

:lmao @ whottt, how many days did it take you to make this up?

Did I ever use the words formal declaration of war?


No, you didn't...the Constitution does...and that's the only thing determining the scale of the war they have the power to control.


There is no constituonal mandate that the President needs the approval of congress for any other act...and it's never been contested in the Supreme Court.

Presidents have sought approval from congress for military action....it's not a constituonal requirement. And the grey ares says the President has the power to determine if a state of war exists.

And finally..the post 911 AUMF gives him plenty of loopholes...

He lied about WMD...why wouldn't he just lie about where Usama's hanging out.

He's already won one court challange against that AUMF...








Of course not.

You made it up.

You lied.

You are owned once more.

No...you just don't know what the he'll you are talking about.

And I already covered every one of your excuses...go back and read.

And I suggest you google the War Powers Clause...as well as the 1973 Resolution.






I suggest you read up on the powrs of the President...and then come back and tell me he can't get us into a war without congressional approval.

And then I'm going to tell you you are stupid...hopefully it won't take 60 days for you to figure it out...

[ChumpDumper]

And finally..the post 911 AUMF gives him plenty of loopholes...Such large loopholes, he didn't use them for Iraq.
No...you just don't know what the he'll you are talking about.Sure I do. Four years in and you still have no idea what it takes to invade and occupy a country.
I suggest you read up on the powrs of the President...and then come back and tell me he can't get us into a war without congressional approval.I already said what he can and can't do.

Tell me about that invasion plan now, general.

[whottt]

:lol

You just said Iran will be a cakewalk, whotttowitz.

Look, I have no doubts about the American military's ability to blow things up and kill people. No doubt whatsoever. A war with Iran wouldn't be a very long one and we'd win militarily.

Your problem is and always has been that you think that's all there is to it.

Afghanistan and Iraq have proven you wrong on that, not matter how much you deny it.


True...we might knock out the Iranian Government only to have them replace witha militant Shia Theocracy sworn to our destruction :rolleyes


The only chance these countries have of beating us is politically...






Sure, Bush can try to to go off the reservation and use or make up some Gulf of Tonkin incident to get a war started -- but then what? It's going to last longer and cost more than anything he's done before. And who allocates the money and allows permission in that case?

He doesn't have to make up anything...


Yeah, you guessed it -- congress.

And you have a legal precedence that will work out?

Good luck.






Sorry, whottt -- that's the way it goes.


A legend in your own mind...

Satisfacotirally, I know as you learn more about this you'll have one of those, "I want to see Mercer at the Point" flash backs...and I'll know it, and you''ll know it.





Since you're all up on all the military's secret weapons and tactics and our CIA presence in Iran -- why don't you tell me how many troops will be needed to invade and occupy Iran.[/QUOTE]

[whottt]

Such large loopholes, he didn't use them for Iraq.

He didn't have to...

And it's a matter for the Supreme Court to decide if he needs any authorixation at all to attack a country he percieves as threat...just because it's been sought in the past doesn't make it a requirement.





Sure I do. Four years in and you still have no idea what it takes to invade and occupy a country.I already said what he can and can't do.

Tell me about that invasion plan now, general.


It's a war...

We aren't the reason the Shias and the Sunnis hate each other...

We aren't the reason Saudi and Iran elected to fight a proxy war of the country...


Or to put it another way...if these terrorists, Shias and Sunnis are so bad ass...


How come the Shias couldn't do anything about Saddam?

And how come Saddam couldn't do anythiung about us?


Mid-East Politics at it's finest...

[ChumpDumper]

True...we might knock out the Iranian Government only to have them replace witha militant Shia Theocracy sworn to our destructionOne that actually does something about it.
He doesn't have to make up anything...Really? He can launch a full scale invasion and occupation of Iran right now? Please do explain.
And you have a legal precedence that will work out? I have a conflict that was ended due to congress' defunding it.

Please oh please tell us where the invasion force is massed right now, general.

[ChumpDumper]

He didn't have to...

And it's a matter for the Supreme Court to decide if he needs any authorixation at all to attack a country he percieves as threat...just because it's been sought in the past doesn't make it a requirement. Yeah,and the fact Afghanistan and Iraq are still going on and went so well has nothing to do with the Iran invasion plan.
It's a war...

We aren't the reason the Shias and the Sunnis hate each other...

We aren't the reason Saudi and Iran elected to fight a proxy war of the country...


Or to put it another way...if these terrorists, Shias and Sunnis are so bad ass...


How come the Shias couldn't do anything about Saddam?

And how come Saddam couldn't do anythiung about us? :lmao

You still don't get it. You see this simply as a zero-sum equation of bullets and bodies.

Thank god the commanders who thought like you have been removed from Iraq after fucking it up for three years. You can't even admit they did anything wrong. You've been in denial for years and now you're going to act like you didn't say Britain was going to invade Iran after the hostages were taken. That went well for you, didn't it?

[whottt]

One that actually does something about it.

Tought to build nukes when you can't even avoid drinking your own piss.



Really? He can launch a full scale invasion and occupation of Iran right now?

Whoever said anything about occupation?

The resistance is much more defined



Please do explain.I have a conflict that was ended due to congress' defunding it.

Please oh please tell us where the invasion force is massed right now, general.


The Persian Gulf primarily.

I believe just one of our carriers has like 3 times as many planes as the Iranian Airforce....there are two there now.



I'll be back to finish this but...game time.


The biggest defference between the power of the President and that of Congress, is that the PResident isn't as tied down by the buerucreacy as Congress is...

I think that's your misconception..he can do a lot of shit before congress has a chance to do anything about it...

Probably wouldn't be wise for a long term PResident...but as a sitting lame duck who's legacy has been destroyed by the selfish attempts of the left to regain control of a situation they have no clue how to handle...what has he got to lose? Especially with his court backing him.

[whottt]

Thank god the commanders who thought like you have been removed from Iraq after fucking it up for three years. You can't even admit they did anything wrong.

It's a fucking war...there is no such thing as a perfect war...

Study some war history, mistakes have been made in all of them....it's part of war.




You've been in denial for years and now you're going to act like you didn't say Britain was going to invade Iran after the hostages were taken. That went well for you, didn't it?

Do you even read the articles in the threads you post in?

Britain didn't even get the chance to decide...the "hostages" got released before they even knew it was going to happen...

Again...read some articles, Russian Intelligence was the one reporting the US Troop Buildup and strike formations...they weren't doint it for our benefit...they were doing it for IRan's benefit.


And yes...GB would have gone to war over this, it's not like they waited 2 years doing nothing like our libs wantd to do....




REad the latest poll numbers?


OVver 50% of Europe now favors a pre-emptive strike against Iran...


And Chirac are Gerhardt are gooooooooooooooone(or will be soon enough).

[ChumpDumper]

Tought to build nukes when you can't even avoid drinking your own piss.Who said anything about nukes?
Whoever said anything about occupation?Me. It will be necessary no matter wha you say.
The biggest defference between the power of the President and that of Congress, is that the PResident isn't as tied down by the buerucreacy as Congress is...

I think that's your misconception..he can do a lot of shit before congress has a chance to do anything about it...Not that much.
but as a sitting lame duck who's legacy has been destroyed by the selfish attempts of the left to regain control of a situation they have no clue how to handleBush fucked his own legacy by not knowing how to finish the shit he started. He was as short sighted as you are. His fault.

[exstatic]

I was trying to limit the # of idiots posting in the same thread.
Not starting a thread yourself would be a good beginning...

[ChumpDumper]

It's a fucking war...there is no such thing as a perfect war...

Study some war history, mistakes have been made in all of them....it's part of war. Study THIS war. You'll see Bush didn't read history.
Do you even read the articles in the threads you post in?

Britain didn't even get the chance to decide...the "hostages" got released before they even knew it was going to happen...Your argument is that the US and UK are poised to strike at a moments notice -- now you're saying they couldn't do anything in two weeks? Onve again, make up your mind.[quotwe]Again...read some articles, Russian Intelligence was the one reporting the US Troop Buildup and strike formations...they weren't doint it for our benefit...they were doing it for IRan's benefit.[/quote]Then they were ready to strike at a moments notice, right -- excpet they weren't according to you.
And yes...GB would have gone to war over this, it's not like they waited 2 years doing nothing like our libs wantd to do....




REad the latest poll numbers?


OVver 50% of Europe now favors a pre-emptive strike against Iran...And Americans? How about them?
And Chirac are Gerhardt are gooooooooooooooone(or will be soon enough).As will Blair and Bush.

[whottt]

Not starting a thread yourself would be a good beginning...



Chump....here's another one that doesn't like you. See how smart he is?

[exstatic]

Chump....here's another one that doesn't like you. See how smart he is?
Uh, that was aimed at you, whottster...
:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Uh, that was aimed at you, whottster...
:lmaoDamn, whottt -- you just proved you don't understand English.

Again.

Is this your new tactic? Preemptive self-ownage?

[whottt]

Uh, that was aimed at you, whottster...
:lmao




Don't read this thread if you like ChumpDumper

[whottt]

Damn, whottt -- you just proved you don't understand English.

Again.

Is this your new tactic? Preemptive self-ownage?


RIF...

[ChumpDumper]

Oh, its just your old tactic of making shit up.

No matter.

[whottt]

What part of 'don't read this thread if you like ChumpDumper' don't you get?

[ChumpDumper]

Hey, self-delusion is nothing new with you. Carry on.

[exstatic]

Ah, I get it. Thread moderation, by means of insanity.

[whottt]

Chump, exs...

Why don't you two shout in unison that cancer doesn't exist, that way you'll finally realize that two stupid people saying something is true, doesn't make it so...

[ChumpDumper]

You're the one who is saying ex doesn't like me because he opened a thread.

That's all the proof that's needed.

[whottt]

You're the one who is saying ex doesn't like me because he opened a thread.

No, exs is saying he doesn't like you by posting in it...either that or he can't read.

[ChumpDumper]

Or he just doesn't give a shit about your "rules", lil' Hitler.

[Clandestino]

You are owned once more.

:lmao chump cracks me up bc he always tells people he owns them and he doesn't :lmao

[exstatic]

Or he just doesn't give a shit about your "rules", lil' Hitler.
Winna, winna, chicken dinna!

[whottt]

Or he just doesn't give a shit about your "rules", lil' Hitler.


And taking a piss on you in the process....

[whottt]

Winna, winna, chicken dinna!



On second thought...I'll concede. I don't want to be on the same side as anyone who uttered that phrase...technicality, or not.

He does like you...


A person who says "winna winna chicken dinna" likes you...congrats.

Between he and clambake...well, at least no one on the right side, of, just about everything, can ever accuse you of being a brain drain.

[ChumpDumper]

Eh, he probably saw Man vs. Vegas while flipping through channels.

Go ahead and make some more rules. My rule is if you ever post again, you are admitting you are a jihadist and eat your own poo.

Starting NOW!

[ChumpDumper]

My other rule is I am not subject to any rules, except the rule that excepts me from the rules of course..

[whottt]

Who gives a shit what someone who doesn't like themself thinks?

[ChumpDumper]

Well, we now all know what whottt is and does.

[sabar]

Kinda deviated from the topic but anyways...

Yes, the United States has "secret weapons" and the ability to bring a government begging on it's knees.

But there's a problem. We aren't fighting a total war where we can carpet bomb and raze every standing structure on the way to the capital city.

The Middle East hates us enough as it is. Any politician regardless of allegience knows what the consequences would be if we wiped Tehran and Baghdad off the map. You can't dominate when you are fighting an insurgency without being oppressive. That's a fact. It why we never would have won in Vietnam and it's why we will never win in Iraq. There is NO good way to end a revolt. You either oppress the people and force them to do what you want or you "cleanse" the entire population. We choose the third option, painstakingly hand picking the insurgents from the civilians at a rate lower than they are recruited at.

You have to get to a point where you realize that you cant change the will of the people. There are insurgencies in this world that have been fought for over 40 years, endless civil wars. Just because we have the power to wipe an entire culture off the map doesn't mean it's realistic or advantageous to do so.

At this point the best bet is to pull out and watch what happens. If the gov't ends up being ultra-oppressive, the U.S. gov't will just do what it did in central/south america and back rebel pro-U.S. factions until they are in power under the support of a decent chunk of the pop.

[Bandwagon Bill]

Well, we now all know what whottt is and does.
:lmao

[JoeChalupa]

Why do some still wish to kiss dubya's ass?