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biba
04-09-2007, 02:21 AM
Suns improved on D, at lineBy Ric Bucher
ESPN The Magazine

Chances are if the Phoenix Suns win the 2007 NBA Championship, the images used to capture that feat won't be Amare Stoudemire standing at the free-throw line and Steve Nash taking a charge. Although they should be.
While everyone still considers the Suns an up-tempo team that doesn't have enough defense to get past any opponent who can throttle down the pace, this past week's results (if not the entire season) would suggest otherwise.

Remember how the Lakers took a commanding 3-1 series lead against the Suns in last year's first round by slowing down the tempo and thereby disengaging Phoenix's runaway train of an offense? They tried and, to a certain extent, accomplished the same feat Sunday afternoon at the Staples Center and never had a chance, losing 115-107, a result far more decisive than the final score might indicate.

That's because of two primary reasons. One, the Suns' defense is dramatically better than last year. In the past week, against the Spurs and Lakers, I watched them play stifling D for minutes at a time, exerting more energy at that end of the floor than on offense. As heretical it may sound, Phoenix's defense is reasonably close to the level played by the two Western powers everyone likes to tout as defensive juggernauts, San Antonio and Dallas. Scoff if you like, but the most important statistic, defensive field-goal percentage, bears it out:

Suns are at 45.74. San Antonio: 44.04. Dallas: 44.72. Yes, Phoenix is still behind the other two -- but it's not as far behind as it was last year.
Perhaps more important, though, is the second element: the Suns have closed the gap in scoring from the free-throw line. Thanks, largely, to Amare.

I found it rather amusing last year when quite a few voices attributed Phoenix's defensive problems to Stoudemire's absence due to knee surgery. Here's a newsflash: Stoudemire was a terrible defender. Don't be misled by a few blocked shots. That's one out of six categories a defensive player is rated by, and Amare was well below average in at least four of them.

(To be fair, he's played his best D this season, though it still isn't anywhere near the level of, say, Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan.)

It's my contention that Phoenix's biggest weakness last year actually wasn't their defense, but the fact that they scored a league-low 14 points from the free-throw line. The most high-powered offense in the league went limp in a grind-it-out contest for that very reason. With the game inevitably slowing down in the postseason and the NBA on a mission to defy its image of letting the game get more physical in the playoffs, not having a player who could force contact around the rim was as crippling as Phoenix's myriad injuries.

And that's where Stoudemire makes the biggest difference, as he demonstrated Sunday against the Lakers. By his standards, his 19 points and nine rebounds were relatively quiet, but the numbers deserving to be in neon represented his work from the line: 7 of 9, helping the Suns outscore the Lakers in free throws, 29-14.

Not to tread on Hollinger's territory, but here's the short of it: the Suns were 3 ˝ points behind San Antonio, the next lowest team in free-throw scoring, last season. The Suns are last again this year, with one huge caveat: they're averaging 17.9 points from the line, only .2 behind the Spurs and 2.2 behind the Mavs.
Yes, they lost to the San Antonio Spurs Thursday in a boat race, 92-85, their offense as about as anemic as it has been all season. Take that result and extrapolate it into meaning that if the Spurs and Suns meet in the postseason, as they almost assuredly will, San Antonio will once again come out on top. What I liked is that the Suns competed at that pace, something they couldn't have done last year. If anyone can knock off the Suns, it's San Antonio, but I'm not going to bank on them outshooting the Suns 18-6 from beyond the three-point arc or holding Nash and Barbosa to a combined 11 for 32.
Or holding Stoudemire to 1 for 5 shooting from the free-throw line.
Granted, I could give you more intangible reasons for believing in Phoenix, such as the improved comfort Raja Bell has with the Suns' system or Stoudemire having developed a midrange jumper or Nash having ratcheted his efficiency another notch.

But for those fearful of abandoning old thinking for new, those whose instincts have them uneasy about putting their faith in the Suns' style, I offer these numbers as a security blanket. It still takes a leap of faith -- but only a small step in logic.

Ric Bucher covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine.

Well, faith or blindness ?

Mr. Body
04-09-2007, 02:52 AM
ESPN writers are contractually obligated to jock the Suns.

bobbyjoe
04-09-2007, 03:13 AM
Stoudemire's the key for the Suns.

If the Stoudmeire from 2005 shows up, the one who torched Duncan in the WCF, they can beat anyone. They are better defensively than in the past, mainly because of Raja Bell, a younger Bruce Bowen. Kurt Thomas can also defend bigs.

But Stoudemire hasn't looked to be the same player as the pre-knee injury version. Without that presence, they will be hard pressed to beat SA in the 2nd round.

Bruno
04-09-2007, 04:08 AM
Suns defense is better than before but they aren't a top defensive team like Spurs : they are now an average nba defensive team and it's not that bad given their offensive qualities.

zeleni
04-09-2007, 04:26 AM
Good article and a truthful one. Pheonix can be a very good team come playoffs.

ShoogarBear
04-09-2007, 04:29 AM
The most worrisome take-home message here is that for the past two years the Spurs have been a jump shooting team that doesn't draw fouls.

And this years they've become almost reliant on their three-point chucking.

DarrinS
04-09-2007, 08:35 AM
One, the Suns' defense is dramatically better than last year.

:lol


Raja Bell and Shawn Marion play defense. The rest of the team...? Not so much.

bdictjames
04-09-2007, 08:39 AM
I still think Stoudemire is not as explosive anymore as he was in 2005. He used to have that 15-20 foot jumper back then, now all he does is take passes from Nash and convert it into a lay-up/dunk.

AFBlue
04-09-2007, 08:56 AM
Phoenix's defense is reasonably close to the level played by the two Western powers everyone likes to tout as defensive juggernauts, San Antonio and Dallas. Scoff if you like, but the most important statistic, defensive field-goal percentage, bears it out:

Suns are at 45.74. San Antonio: 44.04. Dallas: 44.72. Yes, Phoenix is still behind the other two -- but it's not as far behind as it was last year.

This is the biggest crock of shit in the whole article. The explanation for why teams shoot 45%...they play to the up-tempo style of Phoenix and jack up more ill-advised shots than they usually would because their playing "catch up".

I don't have the statistic in front of me, but I would guess that Phoenix allows several more PPG than either San Antonio or Dallas, and likely allows many more FG attempts than the Spurs or Mavs.

The way to beat the Suns is to dictate the pace of the game, both defensively AND offensively. That's what the Spurs did, and they dominated.

Bottom Line: The Suns defense may be better, but that stat proves nothing....

phyzik
04-09-2007, 09:01 AM
I dont know why everyone thinks Amare "destroyed" the Spurs in 2005.... that was by freaking design.... keep everyone else locked up, let Amare explode.

Dave McNulla
04-09-2007, 09:06 AM
I dont know why everyone thinks Amare "destroyed" the Spurs in 2005.... that was by freaking design.... keep everyone else locked up, let Amare explode.
yes, destroyed the spurs in a losing cause. i could care less if he scores 80 points/game as long as the spurs win.

caŽlo
04-09-2007, 09:07 AM
dallas is a defensive juggernaut?

rocyaice
04-09-2007, 09:54 AM
I still think Stoudemire is not as explosive anymore as he was in 2005. He used to have that 15-20 foot jumper back then, now all he does is take passes from Nash and convert it into a lay-up/dunk.

That jumper looked solid against the Mavs in the past 2 meetings.

monosylab1k
04-09-2007, 09:57 AM
so letting the Spurs take wide open jumpers all night long is good defense? If the Spurs didn't brick a sickening amount of wide open shots, they'd have won that game by 25.

ambchang
04-09-2007, 10:37 AM
Phoenix's defense is reasonably close to the level played by the two Western powers everyone likes to tout as defensive juggernauts, San Antonio and Dallas. Scoff if you like, but the most important statistic, defensive field-goal percentage, bears it out:

Suns are at 45.74. San Antonio: 44.04. Dallas: 44.72. Yes, Phoenix is still behind the other two -- but it's not as far behind as it was last year.

Only problem is that it makes SA #3, Dallas #7, and Phoenix out of the top 10. I'd say that is a significant difference.

confined
04-09-2007, 10:40 AM
how can you hold someone to 1 for 5 from the free throw line...last time i checked that shot was always wide open

mFFL03
04-09-2007, 11:02 AM
I love how in the article he credits the Sun's loss to the Spurs just as an offensive off night.

What a load of crap, Spurs have always had the Suns number

CharlieMac
04-09-2007, 11:26 AM
He's talking the Phoenix Suns, right?

Cry Havoc
04-09-2007, 11:26 AM
Phoenix's defense is reasonably close to the level played by the two Western powers everyone likes to tout as defensive juggernauts, San Antonio and Dallas.


Yup.

1 2 3 4 T
Phoenix 33 30 23 33 119
Golden State 45 32 32 15 124

Hmmm. Let me guess, it was an "off-night" for the Suns on the defensive side of things, and surrendering 45 points in a quarter is excusable because it fits in iwth the Suns style of play. Right.


They tried and, to a certain extent, accomplished the same feat Sunday afternoon at the Staples Center and never had a chance, losing 115-107, a result far more decisive than the final score might indicate.

Wow, sounds eerily similar to another regular season game that the Suns recently were destroyed in. But yeah, beating the L.A. Kobe's in the regular season is going to translate to post-season success. :dramaquee


If anyone can knock off the Suns, it's San Antonio, but I'm not going to bank on them outshooting the Suns 18-6 from beyond the three-point arc or holding Nash and Barbosa to a combined 11 for 32.

Apparently this man thinks that players shoot poorly because they have a bad night, regardless of what the other team is doing. He fails to mention that Bowen guarded Nash all night and completely shut him down. Or that the Spurs have always outplayed the Suns no matter what style of game was being played.

Why? It's simple. The Spurs can get stops when they need to. The Suns can't. They DEPEND on huge offensive numbers to win games. Amare Stoudamire looked like a lost little high-schooler in the post against Duncan the last game. It was scary.

Lastly, Amare went off for 35 a night in the last playoff round between the Suns and Spurs because Duncan was hobbled on a bad leg and two bad ankles, and the Spurs didn't mind letting Amare have his points if it kept Duncan from getting unnecessarily hurt. Had the series gone 6 or 7, Tim's D on Amare would have been much more present. Say, what were Amare's numbers last game against Timmay? 15 points on 7-19 shooting? Yeah. That 1-5 at the line is what Suns fans need to be worried about. :rolleyes

wildbill2u
04-09-2007, 11:33 AM
We got one scary look at what the Suns might do as a strategy in the looming playoff series. Dink-a-Duncan and Bop-a-Bruce.

It worked with Tim. He promptly missed 2 FTs. Some nights he's simply terrible at the line, and like the old strategy of "hack-a-Shaq" it can work, especially late in the game where every point is important and fatigue and pressure makes cowards of us all.

I don't like to say this, but we're a shitty team at the line and everyone knows it.

Spurminator
04-09-2007, 11:41 AM
so letting the Spurs take wide open jumpers all night long is good defense? If the Spurs didn't brick a sickening amount of wide open shots, they'd have won that game by 25.


On top of that, how many layups did we brick in the first half of that game?

Cry Havoc
04-09-2007, 11:43 AM
We got one scary look at what the Suns might do as a strategy in the looming playoff series. Dink-a-Duncan and Bop-a-Bruce.

It worked with Tim. He promptly missed 2 FTs. Some nights he's simply terrible at the line, and like the old strategy of "hack-a-Shaq" it can work, especially late in the game where every point is important and fatigue and pressure makes cowards of us all.

I don't like to say this, but we're a shitty team at the line and everyone knows it.

Duncan, if memory serves, is above 65% free throws in the post-season. I think lately in the playoffs it's been higher. Anything above 65% would not be a helpful hack-a-player strategy, correct?

dbreiden83080
04-09-2007, 11:46 AM
Stoudemire's the key for the Suns.

If the Stoudmeire from 2005 shows up, the one who torched Duncan in the WCF, they can beat anyone. They are better defensively than in the past, mainly because of Raja Bell, a younger Bruce Bowen. Kurt Thomas can also defend bigs.

But Stoudemire hasn't looked to be the same player as the pre-knee injury version. Without that presence, they will be hard pressed to beat SA in the 2nd round.

Yes Timmy can guard him one on one as can the other bigs without him going off for 40 a game or whatever he did against the Spurs in 05. He is very good but not the same guy he was before that injury.

Spursdaone
04-09-2007, 11:50 AM
The Suns have to be only half as good at defense as the Spurs to kick their ass. The game the other night was an aberration. Come playoff time, the Suns will be able to have their way with the Spurs defense. Tim just doesn't have any help inside.

confined
04-09-2007, 01:13 PM
The Suns have to be only half as good at defense as the Spurs to kick their ass. The game the other night was an aberration. Come playoff time, the Suns will be able to have their way with the Spurs defense. Tim just doesn't have any help inside.
suns only have one player who plays inside the 3 point line so it shouldnt be that bad

monosylab1k
04-09-2007, 01:17 PM
On top of that, how many layups did we brick in the first half of that game?

Exactly. Duncan went 10-17 that night, and from my perspective, he had an average-to-mediocre night considering he so thoroughly dominated Amare and Thomas on both ends of the court. I thought he blew quite a few easy shots and really he should have shot 14-17 or 15-17 if he was really on his game offensively.

The Suns are still garbage defensively. Spurs beat them in 5.

Cry Havoc
04-09-2007, 01:25 PM
I did a little checking. Duncan is 759-1078 for his playoff career at the line. That's good for 70.4%. Hardly a liability.


Tim just doesn't have any help inside.

The Spurs have a dominant post player in Tim. Who do the Suns have in the post on D? KT? Tim is much better than the entire Suns post offense AND defense. He doesn't need help to get by the Suns, and Elson is more than competent for what we need him to do.

Nashfan
04-09-2007, 04:20 PM
I still think Stoudemire is not as explosive anymore as he was in 2005. He used to have that 15-20 foot jumper back then, now all he does is take passes from Nash and convert it into a lay-up/dunk.

Guess you haven't watched too many Suns games. Amare is more than one diminensional. He can shoot and make fifteen foot jumpers. Also he is explosive, more so than quite a few players in the league. :spin