Is Kobe going to be the greatest player to never with a ring?

[BacktoBasics]

I put my money on "YES".

[Chris Childs]

He has 3 rings

[BacktoBasics]

Shaq won three rings and Kobe watchedFixed

[Medvedenko]

BtoB...you must haven't watched the games...but I'll stop feeding the trolls.

[stretch]

This guy reminds me of Jonathan.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

He has 3 rings

Shortest fucking thread in history.

[BacktoBasics]

Shortest thread maybe but it had such potential.

I think its painfully obvious that Kobe has been nothing without Shaq and he has done nothing to prove that he's the kind of player that can make his surrounding squad any better. Kobe will never ever win another ring.

He will however be totally happy stockpiling stats which is all he ever really cared about in the first place.

[DarrinS]

I think Michael Jordan is the best player to never win a ring.

:rolleyes

[Testing]

:lmao :lmao @ Kobe watching while Shaq won the 3 rings.

[Roxsfan]

I put my money on "YES".


You are a moron. Kobe and Shaq were both instrumental in winning all 3 C'ships. Had those 2 knuckleheads been able to get along.......they would have won 1-2 more. Just b/c Shaq has won a title in the absence of kobe does NOT mean shiiit. Shaq was lucky the mavs wore panties and not jock straps during the finals or shaq would still be at 3 rings.




I can see how they got confused :smokin
http://www.vintagelingerie.biz/9068panties1.jpg












*No mavs fans were hurt during the posting of this thread.

[LakeShow]

I put my money on "YES".

Is school out already?

[mardigan]

Worst
Thread
Ever

[BacktoBasics]

Shaq winning another ring has tarnished Kobe's legacy beyond repair. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

[mardigan]

Shaq winning another ring has tarnished Kobe's legacy beyond repair. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Dwayne Wade won one ring while Shaq watched

[So Icy]

Dwayne Wade won one ring while Shaq watched
true shaq only averaged like 9 points aganist the mavs

[mavsfan1000]

Shaq allowed Wade to dominate with his prescence alone. Otherwise Wade would see consistent double teams. Shaq did the same for Kobe.

[mardigan]

Shaq allowed Wade to dominate with his prescence alone. Otherwise Wade would see consistent double teams. Shaq did the same for Kobe.
I know, i was being sarcastic in response to this dumb ass post

[monosylab1k]

Shaq winning another ring has tarnished Kobe's legacy beyond repair.

no, Kobe raping a white girl did that.

but as far as basketball goes, Kobe was a big part of those three championships and earned every bit of those 3 rings.

[mavsfan1000]

no, Kobe raping a white girl did that.

but as far as basketball goes, Kobe was a big part of those three championships and earned every bit of those 3 rings.
You could say everyone on that team earned but the fact is this. All Shaq needs is a all-star shooting guard while Kobe needs one of the most dominant big man ever.

[mardigan]

You could say everyone on that team earned but the fact is this. All Shaq needs is a all-star shooting guard while Kobe needs one of the most dominant big man ever.
So one player needing an all star>than another player needing an all star?
Many holes in you logic

[mavsfan1000]

No because it is easier building a team around a big man than a shooting guard. Shaq's team was still winning even when Wade was out. The offense looks so easy when Shaq plays. Kobe makes everything look tough from an offensive perspective though he still makes shots but not in the benefit of his teams rhythm.

[mardigan]

No because it is easier building a team around a big man than a shooting guard. Shaq's team was still winning even when Wade was out. The offense looks so easy when Shaq plays. Kobe makes everything look tough from an offensive perspective though he still makes shots but not in the benefit of his teams rhythm.
Bottom line is, Kobe will be one of the 50 greatest players ever, and Wade will be if he keeps playing like he has played his first couple of years. So basically, you could say that Shaq never won shit without a dominant sg that could draw double teams as well

[monosylab1k]

2000 NBA Finals - Lakers vs. Pacers

Game 4 Shaq fouled out in OT. Kobe scored 8 points in OT and led the Lakers to a win.

Just one game, I know, but this is one of many occasions that prove that Kobe contributed plenty even without the help of Shaq. He didn't just "go along for the ride" as Shaq won 3 titles (Phil Jackson is the one that did that, after getting 6 rings for watching Jordan dominate).

[Medvedenko]

Guys...don't feed the trolls....also, Kobe is behind Garnett as the most effecient player this year...(based on NBA stats) Not bad for a chucker, who only cares about himself.

[TheNextGen]

Sheesh..if the league had a PLAYOFF MVP, Kobe would have won more than Shaq. Yes Shaq was awesome in the Finals...but Kobe took Shaq to the Finals.

[mavsfan1000]

Sheesh..if the league had a PLAYOFF MVP, Kobe would have won more than Shaq. Yes Shaq was awesome in the Finals...but Kobe took Shaq to the Finals.
:rolleyes

[Medvedenko]

Mavsfan1000....keep cracking buddy...you got owned that in the last volley of Kobe posts a few weeks back. It looks like you're back again.....have fun.

[mardigan]

:rolleyes
Kobe averaged more tha Shaq in 2 of the 3 championship runs. Nice rolleyes covering the fact that you arent very wise in this conversation

[mavsfan1000]

Mavsfan1000....keep cracking buddy...you got owned that in the last volley of Kobe posts a few weeks back. It looks like you're back again.....have fun.
Shaq 60% from the field. Kobe 45% from the field. Shaq plays inside-out. Kobe plays outside-in. I wonder which style is more proven to be effective? Shaq>Kobe. Shaq even took a Penny Hardaway team to the finals. lol

[mavsfan1000]

Kobe averaged more tha Shaq in 2 of the 3 championship runs. Nice rolleyes covering the fact that you arent very wise in this conversation
Oh yeah since everything is about point total smart guy.

[Kobe'smyhomie]

Shortest fucking thread in history.


SHOULD be the shortest thread.

Kobe has 3 rings. End of story.

[mardigan]

Oh yeah since everything is about point total smart guy.
Eveything is about shooting % according to you




smart guy

[Medvedenko]

I'm not going to argue that Shaq was not the main catalyst....look at the original post and it's claim. It's just Kobe is most complete player in the NBA today, regardless of position. Does he need help, of course...but he's the best player in the NBA.

[mavsfan1000]

Eveything is about shooting % according to you




smart guy
Oh yeah we should bring up rebounding, defense, and offensive flow. Shaq, Shaq, and Shaq. :lol

[mardigan]

Oh yeah we should bring up rebounding, defense, and offensive flow. Shaq, Shaq, and Shaq. :lol
Your right man, Shaq would have still won those 3 rings without Kobe.
Im sure Penny Hardaway would agree with you as well

[mardigan]

Oh yeah we should bring up rebounding, defense, and offensive flow. Shaq, Shaq, and Shaq. :lol
Yea, assists a game, steals per game and free throw %, Kobe, Kobe Kobe, so fucking what :lol

[mavsfan1000]

Your right man, Shaq would have still won those 3 rings without Kobe.
Im sure Penny Hardaway would agree with you as well
What's this crap? Take any of the starters off that lakers team and there is a possibility they don't win a championship. What a garbage reply.

[monosylab1k]

you gotta be a damn fool to think that all Kobe did was piggyback his way to three titles.

I'm no Kobe fan, but without him those Lakers teams don't even sniff the Finals.

[monosylab1k]

What's this crap? Take any of the starters off that lakers team and there is a possibility they don't win a championship. What a garbage reply.

They survived losing Glen Rice fairly easily.

[mardigan]

What's this crap? Take any of the starters off that lakers team and there is a possibility they don't win a championship. What a garbage reply.
Its called sarcasm and how would you expect me to reply to garbage posts except with garbage posts.

[mavsfan1000]

Yeah and they gained Rick Fox and Devean George. Both solid defenders that could hit 3's. Take away Fisher though and the lakers probably don't win any championships.

[mavsfan1000]

Yea, assists a game, steals per game and free throw %, Kobe, Kobe Kobe, so fucking what :lol
Rebounding, Defense, and Offensive flow is much more important than assists, free throw percentage, and steals.

[monosylab1k]

Rebounding, Defense, and Offensive flow is much more important than assists, free throw percentage, and steals.

aren't steals a part of defense?
aren't assists a part of offensive flow?

[mardigan]

Rebounding, Defense, and Offensive flow is much more important than assists, free throw percentage, and steals.
Yet, out of the 3, the only one you can prove is rebounding. The rest are your opinion

[monosylab1k]

Yeah and they gained Rick Fox and Devean George. Both solid defenders that could hit 3's. Take away Fisher though and the lakers probably don't win any championships.

they had Fox and George for all 3 titles, they never "gained" those two. And as great as Fisher was for them, his job could have been done by about 25 other backup level PG's in the league.

[mardigan]

Rebounding, Defense, and Offensive flow is much more important than assists, free throw percentage, and steals.
And Im sure that the almost 300 free throw shots he missed over the 3 year run didnt hurt the Lakers at all either

[mavsfan1000]

aren't steals a part of defense?
aren't assists a part of offensive flow?
I was talking about overall defense and overall offense. Many Shaq's passes come out of a double team which they rotate off the first shooter and than another pass which eventually becomes an assist. That happens alot with inside-out big men. In that case that doesn't as an assist for Shaq but he was a big reason someone else got open.

[mardigan]

I was talking about overall defense and overall offense. Many Shaq's passes come out of a double team which they rotate off the first shooter and than another pass which eventually becomes an assist. That happens alot with inside-out big men.
Thanks for breaking down the basics of basketball John Wooden. Kobe locked up the opponents best 2 guards during those runs, pretty important job I would think as well

[mavsfan1000]

Thanks for breaking down the basics of basketball John Wooden. Kobe locked up the opponents best 2 guards during those runs, pretty important job I would think as well
Bowen 27 Kobe 24. :lol

[mardigan]

Bowen 27 Kobe 24. :lol
Ummmm....ok?

[mavsfan1000]

Ummmm....ok?
Well if Kobe is so great of a defender how does he let Bowen get that many points? lol

[mardigan]

Well if Kobe is so great of a defender how does he let Bowen get that many points? lol
Ummm, I dont know if you know this, but Bruce is our sf, Kobe is a sg. Kobe doesnt defend Bruce when they play, he usually defends whoever we have playing sg, Manu, Fin or Brent. But nice try

[mardigan]

Ahhh, where did you go mijo?

[monosylab1k]

Well if Kobe is so great of a defender how does he let Bowen get that many points? lol

i didn't realize that Bowen was the offensive juggernaut that Kobe has to lock down on every time they play the Spurs.

[mavsfan1000]

Ummm, I dont know if you know this, but Bruce is our sf, Kobe is a sg. Kobe doesnt defend Bruce when they play, he usually defends whoever we have playing sg, Manu, Fin or Brent. But nice try
Haha San Antonio was playing Turkoglu or Stephen Jackson at SF and Bowen at shooting guard those years. Kobe was guarding Bowen.

i didn't realize that Bowen was the offensive juggernaut that Kobe has to lock down on every time they play the Spurs.
Well Bowen became one once Kobe started guarding him.

[Kobulingam]

Dwayne Wade won one ring while Shaq watched

No Shaq watched while Wade had space to operate because Shaq was on the floor.

[monosylab1k]

Haha San Antonio was playing Turkoglu or Stephen Jackson at SF and Bowen at shooting guard those years. Kobe was guarding Bowen.

cuz there's no way Kobe could possibly guard a SF.

[mardigan]

Haha San Antonio was playing Turkoglu or Stephen Jackson at SF and Bowen at shooting guard those years. Kobe was guarding Bowen.
Wow, you just keep getting dumber and dumber. Hedu and S-Jax never played on the same team. Jackson is still a shooting guard idiot.Why would the Lakers take Kobe off of a guy that can score to guard a guy that cant score? Dont try and tell me what is up with my team, because you just dont know. You are reaching very, very hard. Kobe doesnt guard Bruce very often

[mavsfan1000]

cuz there's no way Kobe could possibly guard a SF.
Kobe was guarding Bowen to save himself on offense. I guess he was really saving himself as he allowing Bowen to have wide open shot after wide open shot.

[mardigan]

No Shaq watched while Wade had space to operate because Shaq was on the floor.
Does no one get that I was being sarcastic because this thread is so fucking stupid? Fucking tards everywhere

[mavsfan1000]

Wow, you just keep getting dumber and dumber. Hedu and S-Jax never played on the same team. Jackson is still a shooting guard idiot.Why would the Lakers take Kobe off of a guy that can score to guard a guy that cant score? Dont try and tell me what is up with my team, because you just dont know. You are reaching very, very hard. Kobe doesnt guard Bruce very often
I said or as 1 year Jackson was the starter and the other year Turkoglu was starting. You are the dumb one bringing up Barry and Finley.

[mardigan]

Kobe was guarding Bowen to save himself on offense. I guess he was really saving himself as he allowing Bowen to have wide open shot after wide open shot.
Your an idiot, like Kobe gets to choose who he guards. This isnt pick-up basketball, Ummm... I got the guy with the headband

[mavsfan1000]

Does no one get that I was being sarcastic because this thread is so fucking stupid? Fucking tards everywhere
Yeah anytime someone catches you being wrong you say you were being sarcastic. I'm not buying it.

[LakeShow]

Sheesh..if the league had a PLAYOFF MVP, Kobe would have won more than Shaq. Yes Shaq was awesome in the Finals...but Kobe took Shaq to the Finals.

Exactly! :tu

[mavsfan1000]

Your an idiot, like Kobe gets to choose who he guards. This isnt pick-up basketball, Ummm... I got the guy with the headband
Watch some spurs games of 2002 and 2003. Kobe was guarding Bowen.

[monosylab1k]

Kobe was guarding Bowen to save himself on offense. I guess he was really saving himself as he allowing Bowen to have wide open shot after wide open shot.

and how does that prove that Kobe piggybacked his way to three titles? especially considering the fact that bowens 27 point game came AFTER the Lakers won 3 straight.

maybe if Shaq's Defense was a little better in the post the Lakers could have guarded the perimeter more.

[mardigan]

Yeah anytime someone catches you being wrong you say you were being sarcastic. I'm not buying it.
Dont buy it, I dont give a fuck. I was replying to the idiot who said that Kobe had nothing to do with Shaq winning a ring and that all Shaq needs was a all star sg. Wait, that was you. To which you could reply that all Dwayne Wade needs is a big fat past his prime center that can dunk the ball

[mardigan]

Watch some spurs games of 2002 and 2003. Kobe was guarding Bowen.
:lol Ok, I will. Maybe I can dust off my dvds from that season and you will have taught me some things.

[mardigan]

By the way, I think thats a brilliant concept. Lets take our best perimeter defender, and put him on the guy that cant score! Its perfect, no one would ever expect it! I mean, even Steve Nash could guard Bowen, but, no. We have to prove a point, We must put our best defender on a guy that a parking cone could guard!

[monosylab1k]

When someone is referencing one single game that occured after three championship runs as evidence against Kobe, he must be pretty desperate.

[mardigan]

When someone is referencing one single game that occured after three championship runs as evidence against Kobe, he must be pretty desperate.
When a Mav fan tells me that I should watch some Spurs games from a couple of years ago it makes my day. :lol

[mardigan]

So I guess we are done? Or are you still trying to come up with reasons Kobe didnt help win the title?

[Medvedenko]

Keep it going Mavsfan1000....you put up 1 game where Bowen outscored Kobe, and I'll put up every other game where the latter happened. Fuck you're dumb, why, why do you keep coming with this weak shit. Did you actually watch those games during the 3 peat...probably not. Oh, and it's not like Shaq didn't benefit from the Kobe doubles as well. You picked your poison with those teams.

[mardigan]

Keep it going Mavsfan1000....you put up 1 game where Bowen outscored Kobe, and I'll put up every other game where the latter happened. Fuck you're dumb, why, why do you keep coming with this weak shit. Did you actually watch those games during the 3 peat...probably not. Oh, and it's not like Shaq benefited from the Kobe doubles as well. You picked your poison with those teams.
Its funny that a Mav fan says to have watched more Lakers games than Laker fans and more Spur games than Spur fans

[Medvedenko]

They believe what they are told and actually can't form an opinion, rather than just parroting what they hear from the media.

[mavsfan1000]

They believe what they are told and actually can't form an opinion, rather than just parroting what they hear from the media.
Funny is the media always overrates Kobe. Shaq is what made the Lakers. Kobe was the second best player on that team by a large margin. Laker fans hate Shaq now so they twist what reality is. No surprise that the lakers played much worse when Shaq missed games than when Kobe missed games.

[mardigan]

Funny is the media always overrates Kobe. Shaq is what made the Lakers. Kobe was the second best player on that team by a large margin. Laker fans hate Shaq now so they twist what reality is. No surprise that the lakers played much worse when Shaq missed games than when Kobe missed games.
It took you 2 hours to come up with that weak shit? No one ever said that Kobe>Shaq during those runs. People are just defending Kobe's worth on those teams which some people think was minimum

[Medvedenko]

The Team was geared for Shaq when he was here...Kobe averaged the most assists to Shaq...did he make Shaq better...hell yeah. It worked both ways. I won't argue anymore with you...Remember, Kobe was 4-6 years younger than he is now...you put Kobe @ 28 with those players sans Shaq, they'd be way better. You tend to forget this....it's like putting Shaq this year with the same team 6 years ago...would they still win....I call bullshit.

[E20]

This thread is pretty fucking stupid.

[TDMVPDPOY]

KOBE basically hasnt done shit when he is the main guy on the team

same can be said with shaq who cant win one without and prominent allstar player alongside him.......

[spacejunkie]

to be fair to Kobe everyone else on the present day Laker team pretty much sucks.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Name one player who single handily, without another star, won a ring.

[mardigan]

Name one player who single handily, without another star, won a ring.
Bingo
Can we please stop all the Kobe hate, its stupid

[cornbread]

The whole concept of this thread is pretty retarded. The guy has a 3-peat under his belt. Kobe earned his respect as a player a long time ago.

[ratm1221]

Although I love a good Kobe joke just as much as the next guy, I actually like the guy. He's an all around excellent basketball player. There's not too much he can't do. I enjoy watching him play, it's just too bad he doesn't have a better supporting cast.

[Skip Bayless]

Kobe is one of the most overrated players ever. Without Shaq he is a selfish ball hog who only cares about himself. i wouldnt be surprised if he got left out of the Hall of Fame. wouldnt get my vote.

OVER-RATED

[ratm1221]

Kobe is one of the most overrated players ever. Without Shaq he is a selfish ball hog who only cares about himself. i wouldnt be surprised if he got left out of the Hall of Fame. wouldnt get my vote.

OVER-RATED

I'm sure he would be devastated knowing that you wouldn't vote for him.

[BacktoBasics]

Nothing makes me feel better than seeing this go 4 pages.

Kobe's good. He's like Nique reincarnate but he's no champion. Shaq (who I actually don't like) proved that a guy like Kobe is interchangable. Could be Wade, could have been Ray Allen, Micheal Redd, Melo, Petrovic. Fucking anyone.

If you put any quality big other than Shaq on the Lakers they still don't three peat. Maybe Duncan but Kobe would likely hurt his game too. You put any decent gaurd next to Shaq and they still win three rings.

Hell he took fucking Nick and Dennis Scott to the finals with shitty coaching and an average bench. Had he been there any longer and not split for spotlight he may have won a ring in Orlando...or a few.

I won't take away from the rapists skills but he's no champion. He proved that when scoring titles and selfishness became more important than being a champion.

[TheNextGen]

I won't take away from the rapists skills but he's no champion. He proved that when scoring titles and selfishness became more important than being a champion.

Wow..KB24 got 3 rings, scoring titles, all defensive, first team, etc and you are still putting him down? Well, since you did say "rapist" we know anything Kobe will do has a bias perception with you.

[DarrinS]

I can't believe this thread still exists.


I've changed my mind. I think Bill Russell is the best player to never win a ring. :p:

[Supergirl]

Shortest thread maybe but it had such potential.

I think its painfully obvious that Kobe has been nothing without Shaq and he has done nothing to prove that he's the kind of player that can make his surrounding squad any better. Kobe will never ever win another ring.

He will however be totally happy stockpiling stats which is all he ever really cared about in the first place.

I shouldn't bite...but I can't resist.

We will never know if Kobe would have won in 2000, 2001, and 2002 with the Lakers without Shaq, just like we will never know if Shaq would have won without Kobe. We will never know if Shaq would have won last year without Dwayne Wade. It's just impossible to say.

Really, it makes players like Duncan and Jordan all the more impressive---because they've won multiple championships with very different supporting casts around them, which can lead one to conclude that THEY were the definitive reason for the wins. When Duncan won in 1999, people wondered whether he could win with out Robinson. By the time he won in 2003, no one was questioning his dominance anymore.

Until Shaq or Kobe can win without another superstar, there will always be doubt for them both.

[BacktoBasics]

Wow..KB24 got 3 rings, scoring titles, all defensive, first team, etc and you are still putting him down? Well, since you did say "rapist" we know anything Kobe will do has a bias perception with you.That is 100% accurate. The man could win 3 more rings playing 1 on 5 and I'll still go to the rapist card.

[J.T.]

Name one player who single handily, without another star, won a ring.

I think Dwyane Wade just won a ring while Shaq watched from the snack bar.

[Medvedenko]

Does anyone read my posts.....You put Kobe @ 28 this year with another all-star and a decent supporting cast, they'd definitely contend. Remember, Kobe was with Shaq for 3 years until they won their first ring. Shaq was pretty dominent during those runs, had 4 all-stars on the team, Eddie, Nick, Kobe (voted) and Shaq with decent players around him. Did they win...no, only until Kobe took over the starting SG and the rest was history. So, back to basics, your arguement means shit, Shaq had 3 all-stars on his team, and guess what, nothing.

[mavsfan1000]

Does anyone read my posts.....You put Kobe @ 28 this year with another all-star and a decent supporting cast, they'd definitely contend. Remember, Kobe was with Shaq for 3 years until they won their first ring. Shaq was pretty dominent during those runs, had 4 all-stars on the team, Eddie, Nick, Kobe (voted) and Shaq with decent players around him. Did they win...no, only until Kobe took over the starting SG and the rest was history. So, back to basics, your arguement means shit, Shaq had 3 all-stars on his team, and guess what, nothing.
They wouldn't have been all-stars without Shaq. Shaq made them what they are just like he is doing with the Heat. Eddie Jones looked horrible with the Grizzlies but now that he has Shaq he is back. Kobe would need Duncan, Dirk, Garnett, or Shaq to be a championship team. Another swingman like Odom wouldn't fit in. It needs to be a PF/C that shoots a high percentage and rebounds.

[Medvedenko]

I agree....just like Shaq needs another superstar SG to make his game work as well. What's your point.

[mavsfan1000]

I agree....just like Shaq needs another superstar SG to make his game work as well. What's your point.
Yeah well an over the hill Shaq was able to keep winning without Wade. That's my point. Shaq having a superstar shooting guard makes them unbeatable. Shaq having an all-star shooting guard is tough as well. Kobe though needs a superstar big man to be a contender. I've already said this but the Lakers were much better without Kobe than without Shaq. It is amazing how much of a difference that was. I don't even like Shaq but I realize how much he alters the game. There will always be players that can shoot outside but there aren't many players that can dominate the paint like Shaq does.

[cornbread]

just like Shaq needs another superstar SG to make his game work as well.
There's really no getting around this point.

Kobe IS a champion. Let it go.

[mardigan]

Yeah well an over the hill Shaq was able to keep winning without Wade. That's my point. Shaq having a superstar shooting guard makes them unbeatable. Shaq having an all-star shooting guard is tough as well. Kobe though needs a superstar big man to be a contender. I've already said this but the Lakers were much better without Kobe than without Shaq. It is amazing how much of a difference that was. I don't even like Shaq but I realize how much he alters the game. There will always be players that can shoot outside but there aren't many players that can dominate the paint like Shaq does.
Your back with your idiot posts? How many titles did Shaq win with Penny?
And when did the Lakers only have Shaq and not Kobe? Give it up, Kobe has 3 rings. Dirk will never be the player Kobe is

[mavsfan1000]

Your back with your idiot posts? How many titles did Shaq win with Penny?
And when did the Lakers only have Shaq and not Kobe? Give it up, Kobe has 3 rings. Dirk will never be the player Kobe is
Shaq would win a title with Dirk. If Kobe wasn't so selfish the Lakers would've won more titles than they did.

[mardigan]

Shaq would win a title with Dirk. If Kobe wasn't so selfish the Lakers would've won more titles than they did.
Well yeah Shaq would win a title with Dirk. Kobe would win a title with Dirk. Wade would win a title with Dirk. Duncan, Allen, a lot of guys would win a title with Dirk, that doesnt tell me anything. It wasnt just Kobes decision for Shaq to go, you really think he had that much power? Shaq didnt want to be there either. Bottom lie is if you put two superstars together, they will probably win a title. So, while Shaq had had Dwayne, who has Kobe had? And I swear to God if you say Lamar Odom we are done :lol

[monosylab1k]

They wouldn't have been all-stars without Shaq. Shaq made them what they are just like he is doing with the Heat.

yeah Antoine Walker's kicking ass with Shaq.

[mardigan]

yeah Antoine Walker's kicking ass with Shaq.
I guess Kobe has been pretty shitty since he stopped playing with Shaq. There you are!

[mavsfan1000]

yeah Antoine Walker's kicking ass with Shaq.
Last year when Walker was a starter his numbers were way up. Now he is getting scrub minutes and most of the year Shaq has been injured.

[monosylab1k]

Yeah well an over the hill Shaq was able to keep winning without Wade.

he goes a few weeks in a regular season and all of a sudden Shaq has proven he can do it without a star guard? from a few regular season games?

if anything it proves that Shaq has never been over-the-hill....just that he's been a fat lazy asshole who didn't give a shit until he had no choice but to play hard.

[mavsfan1000]

I guess Kobe has been pretty shitty since he stopped playing with Shaq. There you are!
Kobe's first year without Shaq was poor. Luke Walton has helped his game though along with Phil Jackson's system.

[mavsfan1000]

he goes a few weeks in a regular season and all of a sudden Shaq has proven he can do it without a star guard? from a few regular season games?

if anything it proves that Shaq has never been over-the-hill....just that he's been a fat lazy asshole who didn't give a shit until he had no choice but to play hard.
Shaq is over the hill. Even than his style of game doesn't require a lot of speed.

[mardigan]

Last year when Walker was a starter his numbers were way up. Now he is getting scrub minutes and most of the year Shaq has been injured.
Last year Walker averaged career lows in points, rebounds, and assists.

[monosylab1k]

Last year when Walker was a starter his numbers were way up. Now he is getting scrub minutes and most of the year Shaq has been injured.

Uhh not so much...Walker's numbers were at a career low last season and they got even worse this year.

[mardigan]

Kobe's first year without Shaq was poor. Luke Walton has helped his game though along with Phil Jackson's system.
28 points, 6 rebounds and assists a game, yea, he sucked without Shaq. And Luke Walton hasnt done shit, especially help Kobe

[mardigan]

Cue Childs negative Kobe comment......

[Chris Childs]

Kobe sucks.

[mavsfan1000]

Uhh not so much...Walker's numbers were at a career low last season and they got even worse this year.
Yeah his point totals were down but his shooting percentages were way up. It wasn't til the playoffs that Walker got the starting position and was really effective. Other mavs fans don't like to admit it but Walker did a really good job in the finals last year and most the playoffs.

[mavsfan1000]

28 points, 6 rebounds and assists a game, yea, he sucked without Shaq. And Luke Walton hasnt done shit, especially help Kobe
You love to look at point totals and assist numbers. Right there shows your lack of IQ. Kobe had career worst in turnovers and field goal percentages.

[monosylab1k]

Yeah his point totals were down but his shooting percentages were way up. It wasn't til the playoffs that Walker got the starting position and was really effective. Other mavs fans don't like to admit it but Walker did a really good job in the finals last year and most the playoffs.

First off, 43.5% shooting is nothing to be proud of, especially when ur a PF.

Second, it wasn't "way up" by any stretch. The season before he shot 41.5% in Atlanta and 44.2% (higher) in Boston.

He had a couple good games in the Finals, but there's no conceivable way you can say that Shaq made him a better player. He's only gotten worse since he joined Miami.

[Chris Childs]

I still can't believe this stupid thread went over 100+ posts.

[mardigan]

Walker's Playoff rankings from last year


Second lowest playoff scoring average last year, second lowest fg% of his playoff career, lowest ft% of his po career, 2nd lowest 3 point % of his po career, lowest rebounding and assists of his playoff career. How can one person say so manywrong things in a row?

[Chris Childs]

People arguing over non sense.

Ridiculous.

[mavsfan1000]

Well Walker's best years were in Boston obviously. In Dallas Walker was at his worst. Also Walker shoots a lot of threes and when he drives he usually passes to Shaq which was effective. It's easy to be effective. Even if you are Walker.

[BacktoBasics]

:lmao :hungry:
I still can't believe this stupid thread went over 100+ posts.

[mardigan]

So what, now Shaq doesnt make Walker better?

[mardigan]

I still can't believe this stupid thread went over 100+ posts.
Your just mad you didnt start it with all of your other Kobe sucks thread

[mavsfan1000]

According to Mardigan's idea Iverson is the best player in the nba or second to Kobe. Point totals and assist are everything. lol

[monosylab1k]

People arguing over non sense.

Ridiculous.

isn't it about that time when you go out on the streets and suck dick for crack money? don't waste time posting your useless unwanted opinion here and get your rocks, bitch!

[monosylab1k]

According to Mardigan's idea Iverson is the best player in the nba or second to Kobe. Point totals and assist are everything. lol

So I guess Lebron sucks in your mind? If points totals and assists are meaningless and all...

[Chris Childs]

isn't it about that time when you go out on the streets and suck dick for crack money? don't waste time posting your useless unwanted opinion here and get your rocks, bitch!

:clap


NEXT.

[mavsfan1000]

isn't it about that time when you go out on the streets and suck dick for crack money? don't waste time posting your useless unwanted opinion here and get your rocks, bitch!
No one makes Walker better really since Walker's worst playoff experience was with the mavs. lol

[Chris Childs]

Your just mad you didnt start it with all of your other Kobe sucks thread

:depressed

[mardigan]

Well Walker's best years were in Boston obviously. In Dallas Walker was at his worst. Also Walker shoots a lot of threes and when he drives he usually passes to Shaq which was effective. It's easy to be effective. Even if you are Walker.
Look dude, if the only point you are trying to make is that Shaq makes other players better, I wont disagree with you, he does. But I think what you rtrying to say is that Kobe played no part of those titles, and Kobe sucks now without Shaq, bith untrue. I guess you werent watching much PO basketball then considering your team always got bounced early or didnt make it. Its understandable that you wouldnt have seen much of Kobe play in those series.

[mardigan]

So I guess Lebron sucks in your mind? If points totals and assists are meaningless and all...
Jordan must have really sucked as well.

[mavsfan1000]

Look dude, if the only point you are trying to make is that Shaq makes other players better, I wont disagree with you, he does. But I think what you rtrying to say is that Kobe played no part of those titles, and Kobe sucks now without Shaq, bith untrue. I guess you werent watching much PO basketball then considering your team always got bounced early or didnt make it. Its understandable that you wouldnt have seen much of Kobe play in those series.
I didn't say that at all. I just said that Shaq meant more to their title than Kobe did. Obviously take Kobe off the Lakers and don't replace him with another all-star shooting guard and the Lakers go nowhere.

[monosylab1k]

:clap


NEXT.

not even offering a rebuttal now. it really is true. i feel bad for mocking a crackhead.

[mardigan]

Thigs said by Mavfan in this thread

Kobe sucks at defending because Bruce scored more than him one game like 3 years ago.
Luke Walton is enough to get Kobe to the Finals if Kobe was any good.
That I need to watch more Spurs basketball to see that Kobe always guards Bruce.
That all Shaq needs is a AS shooting guard to win a title, but since Kobe needs a AS center to win a title he sucks
That Antoine Walker was great in the playoffs last year

There is probably more, but my fingers are getting tired
Im done, you win Mavs fan, Kobe sucks

[mavsfan1000]

Thigs said by Mavfan in this thread

Kobe sucks at defending because Bruce scored more than him one game like 3 years ago.
Luke Walton is enough to get Kobe to the Finals if Kobe was any good.
That I need to watch more Spurs basketball to see that Kobe always guards Bruce.
That all Shaq needs is a AS shooting guard to win a title, but since Kobe needs a AS center to win a title he sucks
That Antoine Walker was great in the playoffs last year

There is probably more, but my fingers are getting tired
1. Kobe doesn't suck at defending but he did that series which the Lakers lost.
2. Luke Walton makes Kobe better but not enough to get to the finals. Kobe is good but not as good as some make him out to be.
3. Maybe so. There are 4-6 swingmen in the league that could do the same with the Lakers as Kobe did.
4. Walker was solid. Not great. Nice exaggerations and misinterprets. Walker didn't need to score a lot when he had Shaq and Wade with him in the lineup.

[monosylab1k]

4. Walker was solid. Not great. Nice exaggerations and misinterprets. Walker didn't need to score a lot when he had Shaq and Wade with him in the lineup.

you're the one that exaggerated this. you're the one talking about his numbers and shooting percentage being "way up" cuz of Shaq's effect on the team.

[Chris Childs]

Man this thread has been takened over by a bunch of homos.

This is my last post in this pathetic thread.

I don't hang around with the gays.

I'M OUT.

[monosylab1k]

I don't hang around with the gays

i just give them a good dick sucking if it will get me my crack money..

fixed.

[mavsfan1000]

you're the one that exaggerated this. you're the one talking about his numbers and shooting percentage being "way up" cuz of Shaq's effect on the team.
Yeah I exaggerated it. So fucking what. Walker sucks no matter what but he almost looked decent with Shaq in the lineup. Like he made a difference.

[mardigan]

fixed.
:lol

[mardigan]

Yeah I exaggerated it. So fucking what. Walker sucks no matter what but he almost looked decent with Shaq in the lineup. Like he made a difference.
I dont think anything else needs to be said

[Medvedenko]

3. Maybe so. There are 4-6 swingmen in the league that could do the same with the Lakers as Kobe did.

Once again Mavsfan....Shaq had Kobe at his early 20's contributing and taking over games during the playoffs when 1 Shaq was missing FT's and 2 when he fouled out. Oh, Shaq during his prime had an All-star PG in nick, (had good years previous to Shaq) All-star SG in Eddie Jones and Kobe who was on the bench. They were swept. Like I said, it took the emergence of Kobe and Phil to come on board for Shaq to win. Bottom line, you need to watch the games before you can comment on it.

[dallaskd]

backtobasics is an idiot.

[mardigan]

backtobasics is an idiot.
Couldnt agree with you more

[mavsfan1000]

Once again Mavsfan....Shaq had Kobe at his early 20's contributing and taking over games during the playoffs when 1 Shaq was missing FT's and 2 when he fouled out. Oh, Shaq during his prime had an All-star PG in nick, (had good years previous to Shaq) All-star SG in Eddie Jones and Kobe who was on the bench. They were swept. Like I said, it took the emergence of Kobe and Phil to come on board for Shaq to win. Bottom line, you need to watch the games before you can comment on it.
True but any team with Eddie Jones as your second best player is not going far. Nick Van Exel is overrated.

[mardigan]

True but any team with Eddie Jones as your second best player is not going far. Nick Van Exel is overrated.
Just like any team with Lamar Odom as you r second option isnt going far

[mavsfan1000]

Just like any team with Lamar Odom as you r second option isnt going far
They were still damn good though unlike the lakers of now.

[cornbread]

fixed.
Dude, you crack me up. :lol

[monosylab1k]

True but any team with Eddie Jones as your second best player is not going far. Nick Van Exel is overrated.

Wait a minute....Eddie Jones was an All-Star SG with Shaq....wasn't that all Shaq needed? According to you -


All Shaq needs is a all-star shooting guard while Kobe needs one of the most dominant big man ever.

Hmmm...so now is it "All Star SG not named Eddie Jones" or what?

[mavsfan1000]

Wait a minute....Eddie Jones was an All-Star SG with Shaq....wasn't that all Shaq needed? According to you -



Hmmm...so now is it "All Star SG not named Eddie Jones" or what?
Well these days the All-Stars are Ray Allen, Lebron James, Mcgrady, Wade, and etc. I guess the all-stars of back than aren't as good.

[mardigan]

Wait a minute....Eddie Jones was an All-Star SG with Shaq....wasn't that all Shaq needed? According to you -



Hmmm...so now is it "All Star SG not named Eddie Jones" or what?
Damn Mavsfan, you just got served

[mavsfan1000]

Damn Mavsfan, you just got served
No read my last post. The all-stars now are much better.

[monosylab1k]

No read my last post. The all-stars now are much better.

LOL okie dokie then....I can't recall the last time there was such shortage of quality SG in the league that we put scrubs in the All-Star game, but whatever you have to say to win your weak little argument.

[mardigan]

No read my last post. The all-stars now are much better.
Ive read all your posts. You got served deal with it. So your saying Eddie Jones>Clyde Drexler, Jordan, Gary Payton, Richmond, K.J., Kobe, Kidd, Penny, Glen Rice and Reggie Miller? Or your saying guys now or better, either way your wrong yet again. Have you ever even watched basketball?

[mavsfan1000]

Ive read all your posts. You got served deal with it. So your saying Eddie Jones>Clyde Drexler, Jordan, Gary Payton, Richmond, K.J., Kobe, Kidd, Penny, Glen Rice and Reggie Miller? Or your saying guys now or better, either way your wrong yet again. Have you ever even watched basketball?
No there was a shortage of great shooting guards after Jordan retired so no surprise Eddie Jones got in. Now the shooting guards loaded with superstars. Anyways Shaq's team was still really good. Just not quite championship level. Kobe's team is one loss from missing the playoffs. The argument is not weak.

[mardigan]

No there was a shortage of great shooting guards after Jordan retired so no surprise Eddie Jones got in. Now the shooting guards loaded with superstars. Anyways Shaq's team was still really good. Just not quite championship level. Kobe's team is one loss from missing the playoffs. The argument is not weak.
Eddie Jones was on the AS team as the same time as Jordan idiot. And Kobe, and Miller, and Kidd, and so on and so on. You just keep being wrong and making up more dumb ass excuses that make you look even more wrong

[mavsfan1000]

Eddie Jones was on the AS team as the same time as Jordan idiot. And Kobe, and Miller, and Kidd, and so on and so on. You just keep being wrong and making up more dumb ass excuses that make you look even more wrong
That's a very small thing. You like to bring small details in this. The fact is Eddie Jones is not the usual all-star as he barely makes it. He was in the west while Jordan was in the east so that doesn't matter. Now both sides are loaded with superstar shooting guards which I think are players that could win with Shaq. You keep ignoring the part where Kobe's team shouldn't be this bad. Shaq's team has been good to great for the last 12 years or so.

[mardigan]

That's a very small thing. You like to bring small details in this. The fact is Eddie Jones is not the usual all-star as he barely makes it. He was in the west while Jordan was in the east so that doesn't matter. Now both sides are loaded with superstar shooting guards which I think are players that could win with Shaq. You keep ignoring the part where Kobe's team shouldn't be this bad. Shaq's team has been good to great for the last 12 years or so.
Why the fuck shouldnt Kobes team be this bad? While Shaq was surounded by a stud in Wade, great role players in Haslim and Posey, and one time stars like Peyton, Williams, Walker and Jones, Kobe got Smush, Walton, and a shell of himself Odom.
Jones made the AS team the next year in the east in 00 after he made it in 98 on the west, with Vince, Reggie, A.I., Ray Allen and Allan Houston. 3 of those guys are still dominant right now, so whats you excuse now?

[mavsfan1000]

Why the fuck shouldnt Kobes team be this bad? While Shaq was surounded by a stud in Wade, great role players in Haslim and Posey, and one time stars like Peyton, Williams, Walker and Jones, Kobe got Smush, Walton, and a shell of himself Odom.
Jones made the AS team the next year in the east in 00 after he made it in 98 on the west, with Vince, Reggie, A.I., Ray Allen and Allan Houston. 3 of those guys are still dominant right now, so whats you excuse now?
Dude get off why Eddie Jones was an all-star. It's about as important as how Walker did last year. Shaq in his prime could take that pathetic Lakers team you say sucks and get them 50+ wins. Walker, Williams, and Payton all suck right now. Payton was great in his day though. Actually the Heat are doing better this year without Wade than without Shaq once again. This proves that a former shell of Shaq is still dominant enough to alter the game.

[mardigan]

Dude get off why Eddie Jones was an all-star. It's about as important as how Walker did last year. Shaq in his prime could that pathetic Lakers team you say sucks and get them 50 wins. Walker, Williams, and Payton all suck right now. Payton was great in his day though. Actually the Heat are doing better this year without Wade than without Shaq once again. This proves that a former shell of Shaq is still dominant enough to alter the game.
You fucking brought up the fact that Shaq could win with any all star shooting guard. So Mono brings up Jones being an AS. Then you make up the excuse uh, well, the AS are better now then when he made it, which is total bullshit. Then you bring up how good Walker was, then get disproved, and now none of those things matter because you keep getting disproved. You have crappy takes, cant make a decent point, and probably just started watching basketball. Cant wait to see Walton lead the Lakers through the playoffs

[mavsfan1000]

Let me rephrase it than. Shaq can win with any all star shooting guard and a solid supporting cast similar including Phil Jackson, Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Rick Fox, Devean George, Horry, Madsen, and etc. Just to be more specific.

[monosylab1k]

mavsfan, you do realize that Miami was a playoff team before Shaq came aboard, right?

and that the Lakers were completely decimated the year Shaq left.

Shaq went to a playoff level team and Kobe is starting from scratch.

[mavsfan1000]

mavsfan, you do realize that Miami was a playoff team before Shaq came aboard, right?

and that the Lakers were completely decimated the year Shaq left.

Shaq went to a playoff level team and Kobe is starting from scratch.
Do you realize the Heat had to give up Odom, Butler, and Atkins for Shaq? 3 players couldn't make up close to what Shaq was worth. The Lakers became the Heat (subpar) and the Heat became the Lakers. (champions)

[monosylab1k]

Let me rephrase it than. Shaq can win with any all star shooting guard and a solid supporting cast similar including Phil Jackson, Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Rick Fox, Devean George, Horry, Madsen, and etc. Just to be more specific.

So you're saying Shaq needs an All-Star shooting guard, a Hall Of Fame head coach, 3 point shooting specialists, big time defensive stoppers, strong post players, an all-time great clutch shooter to win a title....wow, you're really making a strong case here...

[mardigan]

mavsfan, you do realize that Miami was a playoff team before Shaq came aboard, right?

and that the Lakers were completely decimated the year Shaq left.

Shaq went to a playoff level team and Kobe is starting from scratch.
H ejust doesnt get it, I think its best for everyone if we just moved on. You have served him at least 3 times in this thread and he just keeps making shit up.

[mavsfan1000]

H ejust doesnt get it, I think its best for everyone if we just moved on. You have served him at least 3 times in this thread and he just keeps making shit up.
You don't get it. All of Kobe's team accomplishments were with Shaq. He has yet shown any sign of leading a team. Even in his prime.

[monosylab1k]

Do you realize the Heat had to give up Odom, Butler, and Atkins for Shaq? 3 players couldn't make up close to what Shaq was worth. The Lakers became the Heat (subpar) and the Heat became the Lakers. (champions)

i don't think you got this part....THE HEAT WERE A PLAYOFF TEAM before Shaq came. They almost made it to the Eastern Conference Finals before Shaq even showed up...it's not like Shaq took over some shit team. THEY WERE A PLAYOFF TEAM THAT ADVANCED IN THE PLAYOFFS. Meanwhile, the Lakers didn't just lose Shaq, they lost Malone, Payton, Fisher, Fox, and Horace Grant as well.

[mavsfan1000]

i don't think you got this part....THE HEAT WERE A PLAYOFF TEAM before Shaq came. They almost made it to the Eastern Conference Finals before Shaq even showed up...it's not like Shaq took over some shit team. THEY WERE A PLAYOFF TEAM THAT ADVANCED IN THE PLAYOFFS. Meanwhile, the Lakers didn't just lose Shaq, they lost Malone, Payton, Fisher, Fox, and Horace Grant as well.
Well that would be a good point if they kept Odom, Butler, and Atkins. The Heat without those 3 players wouldn't do shit in the playoffs without Shaq as well. They also lost Rafer Alston. lol

[mardigan]

Well that would be a good point if they kept Odom, Butler, and Atkins. The Heat without those 3 players wouldn't do shit in the playoffs without Shaq as well.
No its a good point redardless. They didnt have to give up Wade, so they could put 2 superstars together, which as we have covered, will usually lead to a title

[mavsfan1000]

Not all 2 superstars work together. For example AI and Melo. The better phrase for these type of players is super balls hog. lol To be the ideal superstar you need to score a lot, play defense, pass well, and shoot a high percentage. Added bonuses are getting the other teams players in foul trouble. As a big man you need to challenge and block shots along with rebounding.

[mardigan]

Im going to start calling you Spurdynasty jr. That is your new name, and you shall be called it until the end of time

[mavsfan1000]

Im going to start calling you Spurdynasty jr. That is your new name, and you shall be called it until the end of time
What did I say that was so homeristic? I'm sorry if I get too complicated for you. Your brain isn't use to working this hard. lol

[mardigan]

What did I say that was so homeristic? I'm sorry if I get too complicated for you. Your brain isn't use to working this hard. lol
Whatever you say SD jr.

[mavsfan1000]

Whatever you say SD jr.
So you resort to smack talking since you don't have any other comeback. Yeah I made some small detail screw ups but the main idea is it is much easier building a team around Shaq than it is Kobe.

[mardigan]

So you resort to smack talking since you don't have any other comeback. Yeah I made some small detail screw ups but the main idea is it is much easier building a team around Shaq than it is Kobe.
If you had said this to start with I would have agreed. Its usually easier to build a team around a dominant big man. But you said that Shaq was more valuable during the title runs and that Kobe didnt do shit and that he sucks now. All of which or wrong. Anyway, Im done arguing with you

[mavsfan1000]

If you had said this to start with I would have agreed. Its usually easier to build a team around a dominant big man. But you said that Shaq was more valuable during the title runs and that Kobe didnt do shit and that he sucks now. All of which or wrong. Anyway, Im done arguing with you
Yeah I never said Kobe sucked. I don't know how you came up with that. Kobe is a very good player. I just think Shaq made a bigger impact all around than Kobe. I'm done as well. Both are needed for those championships but there are some players that are close to Kobe's level that could do the same thing. Mcgrady and Wade come to mind first. There aren't any players that do what Shaq does though.

[monosylab1k]

Well that would be a good point if they kept Odom, Butler, and Atkins. The Heat without those 3 players wouldn't do shit in the playoffs without Shaq as well. They also lost Rafer Alston. lol

OH...MY....GOD! first off, let's go like 4 posts back where you said THIS -


Do you realize the Heat had to give up Odom, Butler, and Atkins for Shaq? 3 players couldn't make up close to what Shaq was worth.

So here you've established that Odom, Butler, Atkins don't even COME CLOSE to what Shaq is worth...and in this genius post all of a sudden those guys are key components that hurt Miami due to losing them in the Shaq trade?

And NO FUCKING SHIT that Miami would suck with these guys AND Shaq all out for the playoffs....how good would ANY team be if 3 of their top 4 players were gone? which by the way happened to the LAKERS when they lost Shaq, Malone, and Payton among MANY other players.

Which one is it? Is Shaq>>>>>>Odom,Butler,Aktins or the other way around? You've spoken out of both sides of your ass here. You've said that Miami got significantly better by adding Shaq, and that they lost huge pieces by getting Shaq. Which is it?

[Budkin]

Man I still remember Kobe absolutely torching us in the 2001 WCF. Still makes me sick thinking about it. The dude is good, period.

[mavsfan1000]

OH...MY....GOD! first off, let's go like 4 posts back where you said THIS -



So here you've established that Odom, Butler, Atkins don't even COME CLOSE to what Shaq is worth...and in this genius post all of a sudden those guys are key components that hurt Miami due to losing them in the Shaq trade?

And NO FUCKING SHIT that Miami would suck with these guys AND Shaq all out for the playoffs....how good would ANY team be if 3 of their top 4 players were gone? which by the way happened to the LAKERS when they lost Shaq, Malone, and Payton among MANY other players.

Which one is it? Is Shaq>>>>>>Odom,Butler,Aktins or the other way around? You've spoken out of both sides of your ass here. You've said that Miami got significantly better by adding Shaq, and that they lost huge pieces by getting Shaq. Which is it?
The point is the Heat aren't the same team that almost got the ECF. They totally changed their look the next year so them achieving things that year doesn't mean shit as they lost most of those players.

[monosylab1k]

The point is the Heat aren't the same team that almost got the ECF. They totally changed their look the next year so them achieving things that year doesn't mean shit as they lost most of those players.

and who did they replace them with?

Jason Williams, James Posey, Payton, Alonzo Mourning, and your beloved Antoine Walker, guys considered quality players on their previous teams. They didn't lose ANYTHING of significance from their pre-Shaq playoff team and only added better personnel.

the Lakers replace Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Rick Fox, and Derek Fisher with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Chris Mihm.

You're fucking kidding me if you think that the Lakers have put any sort of talent around Kobe. Kobe is a victim of a shitty GM, not the loss of Shaq. Shaq is getting the benefits of playing with Wade and a bunch of former All-Stars and future Hall Of Famers.

[Medvedenko]

Keep it going...too funny to watch.

[monosylab1k]

Keep it going...too funny to watch.

haha yeah....and the thing is i'm really not a Kobe fan....i like Shaq way more than Kobe and i think Kobe's still got a ways to go before he becomes a good teammate....but he deserves his fair share of respect and credit for the three-peat, and none of that should be taken away from him just because Shaq piggybacked his way to a title with Wade.

[mavsfan1000]

and who did they replace them with?

Jason Williams, James Posey, Payton, Alonzo Mourning, and your beloved Antoine Walker, guys considered quality players on their previous teams. They didn't lose ANYTHING of significance from their pre-Shaq playoff team and only added better personnel.

the Lakers replace Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Rick Fox, and Derek Fisher with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Chris Mihm.

You're fucking kidding me if you think that the Lakers have put any sort of talent around Kobe. Kobe is a victim of a shitty GM, not the loss of Shaq. Shaq is getting the benefits of playing with Wade and a bunch of former All-Stars and future Hall Of Famers.
The key word is former. The players were way over the hill by the time they joined Shaq's team. Kobe thought though he had to do it all on his own. He was especially selfish in that Detroit series. Instead of giving the ball to Shaq who had a size mismatch against Ben Wallace Kobe decides to force shots over Prince's 6'9 frame. Not even driving. Kobe can be incredible and can be an idiot at times with the decisions he makes. Odom and Walton are respectable players and the reason the Lakers almost beat the Suns last year. Unfortunately Kobe doesn't always get them involved.

[monosylab1k]

The key word is former.

weren't you just talking about how great those former all-stars were last year as they WON A TITLE?

i'll take a former all-star over smush parker or chris mihm any day.

[J.T.]

This thread is made of win and awesome.

[Medvedenko]

Lakers started this season 15-6 and once the injuries happend they were 26-13, then the nose dive. Injuries is what happened, not Kobe being selfish.
Now, we've already proved to you that Kobe did make a serious contribution to the Lakers run, and only won their first title when he started to mature.

[mavsfan1000]

Lakers started this season 15-6 and once the injuries happend they were 26-13, then the nose dive. Injuries is what happened, not Kobe being selfish.
Now, we've already proved to you that Kobe did make a serious contribution to the Lakers run, and only won their first title when he started to mature.
I believe Kobe missed some of those games early in the season and the lakers were winning. Yeah they went 3-1. Kobe just doesn't make as great of an impact in the game as you would like to think. If he had Nash's vision it would be different as he would consistently get a ton of assist. He likes to play 1 on 5 too much though.

[mardigan]

I believe Kobe missed some of those games early in the season and the lakers were winning. Yeah they went 3-1. Kobe just doesn't make as great of an impact in the game as you would like to think. If he had Nash's vision it would be different as he would consistently get a ton of assist. He likes to play 1 on 5 too much though.
Well the mavs were 3 and 0 when Dirk didnt play, so I guess if he hadnt played they would have been 82 and 0 for the year. The Lakers were absolutely decimated by injury this year, I think they had their starting lineup on the court for like 16 games this year. No team would win if that happened

[TheNextGen]

Well that would be a good point if they kept Odom, Butler, and Atkins. The Heat without those 3 players wouldn't do shit in the playoffs without Shaq as well. They also lost Rafer Alston. lol

Wow..never knew the Heat had Chucky Atkins :rolleyes

[monosylab1k]

Wow..never knew the Heat had Chucky Atkins :rolleyes

oh wow I was so distracted by his idiotic comments that I didn't even catch this. yet another mistake in his weak argument although I should have caught that earlier.

[mavsfan1000]

oh wow I was so distracted by his idiotic comments that I didn't even catch this. yet another mistake in his weak argument although I should have caught that earlier.
Yeah it was so weak. Atkins would've put the Heat over the top. :rolleyes Well Rafer Alston loss was = to that so fuck you. lol Are you sure you are a mavs fan because I think messing too much in the Kobe pudding. :lmao

[Medvedenko]

Kobe missed the entire training camp, a few games here and there and still led the league in scoring while carrying his depleted to the 7th seed. Not bad for selfish introvert who's only worried about his stats. Nash has great shooters and finishers on his team...compared that to the lakers and what do they have.

[mardigan]

Yeah it was so weak. Atkins would've put the Heat over the top. :rolleyes Well Rafer Alston loss was = to that so fuck you. lol Are you sure you are a mavs fan because I think messing too much in the Kobe pudding. :lmao
Yea, he is. You just happen to me one of the worst posters ever at trying to make a point. You make a point, then as soon as its diproved, say that it didnt matter. You, sir, have no good points to make about anything. But Im sure you will make some other bullshit up SD jr.

[mavsfan1000]

Yea, he is. You just happen to me one of the worst posters ever at trying to make a point. You make a point, then as soon as its diproved, say that it didnt matter. You, sir, have no good points to make about anything. But Im sure you will make some other bullshit up SD jr.
Fuck you as well. Kobe lover. That's your name for now on.

[mardigan]

Fuck you as well. Kobe lover. That's your name for now on.
Fuck yourself dipshit, have a good take once in awhile and maybe you wont get called out. Stupid little bitch Mav fan that knows nothing about basketball :lol . Go head and call me Kobe lover, rather be called that than SpurDynasty jr. How many times do you have to get called out for being wrong joto?

[mardigan]

Chucky Atkins was a beast on that Heat team :lmao
Fucking dumbass

[monosylab1k]

Yeah it was so weak. Atkins would've put the Heat over the top. :rolleyes Well Rafer Alston loss was = to that so fuck you. lol Are you sure you are a mavs fan because I think messing too much in the Kobe pudding. :lmao

no the point was that you fucked up when you said that the Shaq trade was for Odom,Butler, and Atkins because Atkins was never involved in the trade.

[mavsfan1000]

no the point was that you fucked up when you said that the Shaq trade was for Odom,Butler, and Atkins because Atkins was never involved in the trade.
It's pathetic that you are looking for a slight mess up on my part to prove that Kobe is so great. Get over it already. Kobe isn't the best.

[mardigan]

It's pathetic that you are looking for a slight mess up on my part to prove that Kobe is so great. Get over it already. Kobe isn't the best.
Maybe if you didnt fuck up every thing you said he could get over it, but everything you say eventually we have to get over because its wrong. And Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dirk. Whats pathetic is your lack of baketball knowledge

[mavsfan1000]

Maybe if you didnt fuck up every thing you said he could get over it, but everything you say eventually we have to get over because its wrong. And Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dirk. Whats pathetic is your lack of baketball knowledge
Oh my god. I've been watching basketball for 12 years intensely. Dirk is better than Kobe as proven by his team that can't be beaten. Kobe might've had some special performances but consistency is the key to success. Dirk is that.

[monosylab1k]

It's pathetic that you are looking for a slight mess up on my part to prove that Kobe is so great. Get over it already. Kobe isn't the best.

one slight mess up isn't a big deal.

15 slight mess ups is.

[resistanze]

Oh my god. I've been watching basketball for 12 years intensely. Dirk is better than Kobe as proven by his team that can't be beaten. Kobe might've had some special performances but consistency is the key to success. Dirk is that.

...Based on what? As much I like Dirk, his history contradicts your claim, don't you agree?

[monosylab1k]

Oh my god. I've been watching basketball for 12 years intensely. Dirk is better than Kobe as proven by his team that can't be beaten. Kobe might've had some special performances but consistency is the key to success. Dirk is that.

well Dirk needs a ring or two and then maybe i'll agree with you that he's better overall than Kobe. but right now i don't think too many people, mavs fans included, would agree with you.

Kobe has been consistently great performer for years now. and there's no question Kobe is the most talented player in the world. maybe not the best, but definitely the most talented.

[mardigan]

Oh my god. I've been watching basketball for 12 years intensely. Dirk is better than Kobe as proven by his team that can't be beaten. Kobe might've had some special performances but consistency is the key to success. Dirk is that.
12 years huh? Well I guess that you wasted 12 years of your life watching a sport that you still dont get. I seem to remember Dirks team being beaten last year in the Finals, so I wouldnt say they cant be beaten. Kobe plays defense, is a better scorer, and is just better all around. Dirk is the tougher matchup, but isnt a good rebounder or shot blocker for his size, and still sucks at d. ANd if I needed a last shot in a game, I would want Kobe to take it. Although Dirk is a badass

[Chris Childs]

You homos have no life. SMH

[monosylab1k]

You homos have no life. i want some crack

[Chris Childs]

Try again.

[mardigan]

You homos have no life. SMH
Your one to talk crackhead. How bout them Knicks?

[Chris Childs]

Your one to talk crackhead. How bout them Knicks?

Crackhead? Well I guess you're not the only one dickriding monolyb1k.


SAD.

[mardigan]

Crackhead? Well I guess you're not the only one dickriding monolyb1k.


SAD.
Well I didnt see anyone else posting pics of crack pipes but you

[monosylab1k]

Crackhead? Well I guess you're not the only one dickriding monolyb1k.


SAD.

lol he's not dickriding me one bit....take a look in the NFL Forum for confirmation of that :lol

we just agree on most basketball subjects and both know how to spot a crackhead that posts on ST.

[Chris Childs]

Well I didnt see anyone else posting pics of crack pipes but you

I post a pic of a crackpipe so now I'm a crackhead?

By your logic, if I post a pic of mavs championship tophy, they're champions?


Mavs fans aren't the only ones that's dumb.

[Chris Childs]

lol he's not dickriding me one bit....take a look in the NFL Forum for confirmation of that :lol

we just agree on most basketball subjects and both know how to spot a crackhead that posts on ST.

Wait a minute, How DO you know how to spot a crackhead?

SUSPECT.

[monosylab1k]

Wait a minute, How DO you know how to spot a crackhead?

SUSPECT.

i took a college course on it. you fit the bill perfectly.

[mardigan]

I post a pic of a crackpipe so now I'm a crackhead?

By your logic, if I post a pic of mavs championship tophy, they're champions?


Mavs fans aren't the only ones that's dumb.
You should have put that are, not that's. Mavs fan's arent the only ones that is dumb? No, you should have said Mavs fans arent the only ones that ARE dumb :)

[Chris Childs]

You should have put that are, not that's. Mavs fan's arent the only ones that is dumb? No, you should have said Mavs fans arent the only ones that ARE dumb :)

Thanks.

Didn't even have to correct it myself.

But let me add on to that.

Some spurs fans are dumb, like you.

[Chris Childs]

i took a college course on it. you fit the bill perfectly.

You took a course on spotting crackheads?

I guess you're proud of that, aren't you? LOL

[monosylab1k]

You took a course on spotting crackheads?

I guess you're proud of that, aren't you? LOL

yeah it's a prerequisite at Princeton.

[Kobe'smyhomie]

Oh my god. I've been watching basketball for 12 years intensely. Dirk is better than Kobe as proven by his team that can't be beaten. Kobe might've had some special performances but consistency is the key to success. Dirk is that.

Key word: Dirk's team is better. Not Dirk himself, but his team.

Take the blinders off you sick Dallas homer. No person in their right mind thinks Dirk's better than Kobe.

[Chris Childs]

yeah it's a prerequisite at Princeton.

O Rly? It's required huh? So you know how to spot a CRACKhead but don't know what a CRACKpipe is?

That's great. Bravo.

I know how to spot homos as well.

[monosylab1k]

O Rly? It's required huh? So you know how to spot a CRACKhead but don't know what a CRACKpipe is?

That's great. Bravo.

I know how to spot homos as well.

we only study crackhead behavior, not their utensils.

i don't think any universities carry a homo-spotting course, so i guess you learned that one from experience.

[mavsfan1000]

Key word: Dirk's team is better. Not Dirk himself, but his team.

Take the blinders off you sick Dallas homer. No person in their right mind thinks Dirk's better than Kobe.
Actually he is. Enjoy your 1st round exit btw. Yeah Dirk's team is better but not 20 games better. Dirk definitely had something big to do with that.

[Chris Childs]

we only study crackhead behavior, not their utensils.

i don't think any universities carry a homo-spotting course, so i guess you learned that one from experience.

My college Boise State University had a course on homosexuals. It talked about how they are completely different from normal people from the way they act, talk, walk and everything else gays do that's just.....GAY.

So yeah, I know homo ways and you fit that bill perfectly.

[mavsfan1000]

Chris Childs has suddenly become cool again. lol

[monosylab1k]

My college Boise State University had a course on homosexuals. It talked about how they are completely different from normal people from the way they act, talk, walk and everything else gays do that's just.....GAY.

So yeah, I know homo ways and you fit that bill perfectly.

Idaho...the land of Napoleon Dynamite, Statue Of Liberty plays, and blatant homophobia.

[monosylab1k]

Chris Childs has suddenly become cool again. lol

hey Chris Childs you have a fan! :clap good work!

[mardigan]

Actually he is. Enjoy your 1st round exit btw. Yeah Dirk's team is better but not 20 games better. Dirk definitely had something big to do with that.
Yea, so did Howard, Terry and Stackhouse. Stupid pendejo

[mardigan]

hey Chris Childs you have a fan! :clap good work!
:lmao

[Kobe'smyhomie]

Actually he is. Enjoy your 1st round exit btw. Yeah Dirk's team is better but not 20 games better. Dirk definitely had something big to do with that.


Dirk has the better team. Individually, he's not even close to being as good as Kobe. I stand corrected.
Enjoy another choke job btw.

[mavsfan1000]

Dirk has the better team. Individually, he's not even close to being as good as Kobe. I stand corrected.
Enjoy another choke job btw.
I'll enjoy a championship. What Dirk has done with this team is amazing.

[mardigan]

I'll enjoy a championship. What Dirk has done with this team is amazing.No, the team thats put around Dirk is amazing. Dirk is pretty damn good, maybe top 5 in the league, maybe

[mavsfan1000]

No, the team thats put around Dirk is amazing. Dirk is pretty damn good, maybe top 5 in the league, maybe
Oh yeah the 3 other all-stars around Dirk are quite awesome. Oh wait Dirk only has one all-star and even he was questionable. I guess you lose this argument. :lmao

[mardigan]

Oh yeah the 3 other all-stars around Dirk are quite awesome. Oh wait Dirk only has one all-star and even he was questionable. I guess you lose this argument. :lmao
How many does Kobe have?
I love how you keep winning my argument for me

[mavsfan1000]

How many does Kobe have?
I love how you keep winning my argument for me
If you are comparing Kobe's team to Dirk than you have to have to compare the amound of wins as well. Kobe's team barely made the playoffs while Dirk's team made an effort to get 70 wins.

[mardigan]

If you are comparing Kobe's team to Dirk than you have to have to compare the amound of wins as well. Kobe's team barely made the playoffs while Dirk's team made an effort to get 70 wins.
You keep dodging the question. How many all stars were on Kobes team? You dont think an an extra all star, a former all start, and a 17 points per game scorer helped Dirk get those extra 25 wins?

[Kobe'smyhomie]

I'll enjoy a championship. What Dirk has done with this team is amazing.


That's what I heard last year as well.

I don't disagree with Dirk being the leader of the best team, nor will I vent if he wins MVP; he deserves it. I'm not going to buy the Dirk better than Kobe because he has a better team crap however.

Anyways..good luck for the playoffs.

[Kobe'smyhomie]

Oh yeah the 3 other all-stars around Dirk are quite awesome. Oh wait Dirk only has one all-star and even he was questionable. I guess you lose this argument. :lmao


Number of all stars on a team determining how good the team is overall is probably the most overused, and sad argument in the NBA.
Just to use a good example, the Pistons had one all star on their team the year they won it all.
Fast forward to 2006- they have 4 all stars. They don't even make the NBA finals.

If you're trying to put down Dirk's teammates..it's pretty weak considering the Mavs wouldn't be where they are today without them.

[mavsfan1000]

Number of all stars on a team determining how good the team is overall is probably the most overused, and sad argument in the NBA.
Just to use a good example, the Pistons had one all star on their team the year they won it all.
Fast forward to 2006- they have 4 all stars. They don't even make the NBA finals.

If you're trying to put down Dirk's teammates..it's pretty weak considering the Mavs wouldn't be where they are today without them.
It's only overused when we talk about Dirk. Whatever for you to win this argument. lol

[Medvedenko]

KG is a better player than Dirk. Kg has had a better career and has been maligned with some shitty talent over the years. Oh, and saying Dirk is better than Kobe is too funny. Keep it coming buddy. We can argue, stats, playoff wins, impact on the game etc and you'd still be on the bottom. Hey, I'm actually a Dirk fan, love his game, but no way he touches Kobe. Like I said in my many posts. Kobe is compared to the greats, Jordan, Wilt, West, Baylor...everyone currenlty will be compared to Kobe. Live with it.

[mavsfan1000]

lol If only Dirk had Shaq as a teammate. Than we would be talking domination. Kobe's accomplishments with Shaq shouldn't count because Shaq was the most dominant center ever or at least up there with Wilt Chamberlin.

[Medvedenko]

lol...what are you 10...seriously...who the hell would pass to Shaq if Dirk was on that team..............Who would create shots for Shaq...Kobe led his team in assists during his run with Shaq, also locked down the best perimeter scorer, while scoring in the high 20's as well....Imagine...Dirk had the best PG of his generation...and what happened....nothing...imagine putting Nash and Kobe together....it doesn't work that way chumpy.

[mavsfan1000]

Dirk the best outside force and Shaq the best inside force wouldn't work? Lmao. Nash and Dirk didn't work because they both outside forces while Nash and Amare did. Amare was a great finisher. You got a lot to learn about basketball. Dampier though isn't Shaq but he isn't afraid to get in the paint and battle. That helps Dirk a lot. Could you imagine what Shaq would do?

[Medvedenko]

Who will pass to Dirk...and who will pass to Shaq....would they win..possibly. We'll never know. I have a lot to learn...funny stuff, remember you've been burned numerous times on this site...keep fighting, you may win one of these days.

[mavsfan1000]

THe point guard passes to Shaq. Shaq gets doubled and passes to Dirk. On defense teams will try to post up Dirk and Shaq will help out forcing a passout. No one complimetns Dirk as well as Shaq. Oh well I guess they will never be teammates.

[Medvedenko]

......good analysis...I guess. Kobe's the best perimeter player in the L...match him up with the best low post player...voila..you win a ring. Match Dirk (low post threat) with the best PG...no ring. Discussion finished. Oh, and kobe was still very young when he hoisted his first ring.

[mardigan]

......good analysis...I guess. Kobe's the best perimeter player in the L...match him up with the best low post player...voila..you win a ring. Match Dirk (low post threat) with the best PG...no ring. Discussion finished. Oh, and kobe was still very young when he hoisted his first ring.
Just walk away Med, just walk away

[mavsfan1000]

......good analysis...I guess. Kobe's the best perimeter player in the L...match him up with the best low post player...voila..you win a ring. Match Dirk (low post threat) with the best PG...no ring. Discussion finished. Oh, and kobe was still very young when he hoisted his first ring.
Dirk a low post prescence? lmao. Dirk is definitely better known for his outside game. Nash was not the best point guard during the time with Dallas. He suffered from fatigue of having to play for Canada and Dallas. That fucker finally gave up his National Team once he joined Phoenix. To me that is the biggest reason for his improvement.

[Medvedenko]

To me that is the biggest reason for his improvement.
That and a better system with better overall players suited for his game. I guess people get better when they have players accustomed to their game. However, Kobe doesn't get the same pass. Thanks for finishing my arguement. Oh, and don't argue that Nash playing for Canada really hurt his chances. A lot of players did the same, didn't Dirk play for Germany last year....

[BacktoBasics]

Another season about to be wrapped up and it'll be another post season where Kobe fails to get his ring.

[Allanon]

Thank you for bumping this. I'll bump it again in June.

First thread I've ever "subscribed" to :lol

[Many PackYao]

Kobe was the one closing out those games while Shaq's fat ass was on the bench in foul trouble.