Two shootings at Virginia Tech?

[ALVAREZ6]

Did any of you see the video interview of his roommate???? They have it on yahoo somewhere, pretty easy to find. Poor guy, he had to room with a complete douche bag that wouldn't speak a single word the whole year since August. That's some suspicious shit IMO. Rooming with him, I think it would have been me to go crazy and shoot him in the head. However, of course, I'd leave it at that.

[ALVAREZ6]

My friend who I previously talked about came home today from VT. We're set to play a little bball this weekend.

[midgetonadonkey]

Did any of you see the video interview of his roommate???? They have it on yahoo somewhere, pretty easy to find. Poor guy, he had to room with a complete douche bag that wouldn't speak a single word the whole year since August. That's some suspicious shit IMO. Rooming with him, I think it would have been me to go crazy and shoot him in the head. However, of course, I'd leave it at that.

My sister roomed with an asian chick at TAMU that didn't say two words to her. She didn't give a shit because she just figured the bitch didn't speak English. You can't judge someone just because they were quiet.

I was quiet throughout college and wrote fucked up stories simply because I have social anxiety disease and a creative mind. I never wanted to kill anyone.

[IX_Equilibrium]

I was quiet throughout college and wrote fucked up stories simply because I have social anxiety disease and a creative mind. I never wanted to kill anyone.

So I take it you missed out on the chicks and beer?

[ALVAREZ6]

My sister roomed with an asian chick at TAMU that didn't say two words to her. She didn't give a shit because she just figured the bitch didn't speak English. You can't judge someone just because they were quiet.

I was quiet throughout college and wrote fucked up stories simply because I have social anxiety disease and a creative mind. I never wanted to kill anyone.
Still though it's uncomfortable.

Living with someone for a whole year who never speaks, even when you instigate a conversation. By never talking or getting to know the type of person at all, how can you know WTF kind of thoughts they have...I mean, you might play with your mind and think maybe he's depressed, or maybe he simply hates my ass.

I don't know, I'd have trouble rooming with a person like that.

[John Patrick]

youre not alone.

Guess this guys roomate figured the same.

or maybe he knew he was different because of his silence.

midge did that chick act weird in publc or with other asians?

[ashbeeigh]

I just got back from a very nice Candle Light Vigil. on our Library Lawn.

It started with a prayer from a Pastor (who is also a faculty member) followed by 33 seconds of silence.

Someone played Taps and then the names of the victims were read followed by the sounding of our "Victory Bell" being rung for each of the victims. After the names and the bells were rang a candle was lit for each person, including Cho.

After that we were invited to sign some blank poster boards with our thoughts and prayers that are going to be sent to VT. Along with that flowers were placed on the steps leading up to the poster board and placed by the letters.

The most touching thing, I thought, was looking at the 33 candles all by themselves.

[Spurfect]

I just got back from a very nice Candle Light Vigil. on our Library Lawn.

It started with a prayer from a Pastor (who is also a faculty member) followed by 33 seconds of silence.

Someone played Taps and then the names of the victims were read followed by the sounding of our "Victory Bell" being rung for each of the victims. After the names and the bells were rang a candle was lit for each person, including Cho.

After that we were invited to sign some blank poster boards with our thoughts and prayers that are going to be sent to VT. Along with that flowers were placed on the steps leading up to the poster board and placed by the letters.

The most touching thing, I thought, was looking at the 33 candles all by themselves.

so there was a candle and a second of silence for the killer? :wtf

[ashbeeigh]

so there was a candle and a second of silence for the killer? :wtf

I guess the people putting it together decided he was a "victim" as well.

He was the least one read, though. Everyone else was in alphabetical order.

[John Patrick]

last.

and I can see where this will be going now.

.......why

[Spurfect]

I guess the people putting it together decided he was a "victim" as well.

He was the least one read, though. Everyone else was in alphabetical order.

i dont even know what to say to that. i think it is bullshit personally. how ironic to include him in a vigil, a vigil that wouldn't be needed if it wasn't for him.

[SAtown]

I just got back from a very nice Candle Light Vigil. on our Library Lawn.

It started with a prayer from a Pastor (who is also a faculty member) followed by 33 seconds of silence.

Someone played Taps and then the names of the victims were read followed by the sounding of our "Victory Bell" being rung for each of the victims. After the names and the bells were rang a candle was lit for each person, including Cho.

After that we were invited to sign some blank poster boards with our thoughts and prayers that are going to be sent to VT. Along with that flowers were placed on the steps leading up to the poster board and placed by the letters.


The most touching thing, I thought, was looking at the 33 candles all by themselves.

Do you go to VT?

[Spurfect]

gaahh i dont know why it's just making me so mad picturing 33 candles together. WTF!!! He doesn't belong there. #(*&$@(&^!#T^@

[King]

Did anybody watch the videos of this kid? It seems to me that he's trying so hard to be poetic and prophetic, but he's failing miserably. There's nothing that makes sense about those videos or the things that he's saying - and not in a crazy way.

He mentions the blood on our hands, makes a reference to Jesus, said that he was left no choice, etc. He tries to make every line sound profound, and it doesn't even make sense.

Again, in my non-licensed opinion of the videos, the kid wanted so bad to come across as a psychopath who was sending this profound message - a la Kevin Spacey in Seven - but he was really just a nut going down in a blaze of glory.

[Spurfect]

Did anybody watch the videos of this kid? It seems to me that he's trying so hard to be poetic and prophetic, but he's failing miserably. There's nothing that makes sense about those videos or the things that he's saying - and not in a crazy way.

He mentions the blood on our hands, makes a reference to Jesus, said that he was left no choice, etc. He tries to make every line sound profound, and it doesn't even make sense.

Again, in my non-licensed opinion of the videos, the kid wanted so bad to come across as a psychopath who was sending this profound message - a la Kevin Spacey in Seven - but he was really just a nut going down in a blaze of glory.

it was definitely forced. I don't think he believes all that shit either. it was an excuse for him, he wanted to go out looking cool. in the end he was just another geeky loner kid who got rejected one too many times and probably had something signifcant happen to him at some point that he couldn't let go of

[SAtown]

it was definitely forced. I don't think he believes all that shit either. it was an excuse for him

Forced by whom?! I'm not trying to defend him, but gimme a break. You're not going to put the blame on videogames, movies, or societal pressure, are you? Of course this was HIS doing! He was a fucking maniac and thought that his actions would bring justice to whatever he believed in.

[ashbeeigh]

last.

and I can see where this will be going now.

.......why

Oh yeah. I can to.


Do you go to VT?

No, some students at Texas Lutheran just wanted to show their support.

[Spurfect]

Forced by whom?! I'm not trying to defend him, but gimme a break. You're not going to put the blame on videogames, movies, or societal pressure, are you? Of course this was HIS doing! He was a fucking maniac and thought that his actions would bring justice to whatever he believed in.

lol i didn't mean someone forced him to say that. I meant the way he was talking, it just seemed forced.. as in, unnatural..acting. or something.

[SAtown]

Again, in my non-licensed opinion of the videos, the kid wanted so bad to come across as a psychopath who was sending this profound message - a la Kevin Spacey in Seven - but he was really just a nut going down in a blaze of glory.

Well, he did come across as a psychopath... in fact, he just murdered 30+ people with a fucking gun on a school campus. If that's not a 'psychopath with a profound message' to you, then I don't know what kind of incident your looking for.

[King]

Well, he did come across as a psychopath... in fact, he just murdered 30+ people with a fucking gun on a school campus. If that's not a 'psychopath with a profound message' to you, then I don't know what kind of incident your looking for.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. The guy is definitely mentally ill. But, the example I used (Kevin Spacey in Seven) was trying to send a message. He believed what he was doing was right. He was a legitimate psychopath.

This guy didn't seem to even believe what he was saying in the videos. He was just talking - and saying ridiculous things. Watch the videos, he's trying to be so poetic.

[Spurfect]

I don't think you get what I'm saying. The guy is definitely mentally ill. But, the example I used (Kevin Spacey in Seven) was trying to send a message. He believed what he was doing was right. He was a legitimate psychopath.

This guy didn't seem to even believe what he was saying in the videos. He was just talking - and saying ridiculous things. Watch the videos, he's trying to be so poetic.

yeah he's not understanding..
i get what you are saying though and I agree with you

[SAtown]

This guy didn't seem to even believe what he was saying in the videos. He was just talking - and saying ridiculous things. Watch the videos, he's trying to be so poetic.

I know what your trying to say. This Cho character wasn't a paid actor, that's why his rambling sounded so unprofessional. But you do have to support his stupid ass rambling with his actions...

IMO, the video of him is so much more impactful and insane than any movie could be. (yes, Seven was extremely fucked up)

[SAtown]

yeah he's not understanding..
i get what you are saying though and I agree with you

No, actually I understand perfectly, thank you anyways...

Who knows if he was trying to mimic a stupid movie or something like that; shit, even his former roommates couldn't speak a word to him.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not sure some people in this thread know what words like sociopath really means.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

it was definitely forced. I don't think he believes all that shit either. it was an excuse for him, he wanted to go out looking cool. in the end he was just another geeky loner kid who got rejected one too many times and probably had something signifcant happen to him at some point that he couldn't let go of

Well if he didn't believe in what he was saying he wouldn't have killed thirty people, including himself. Was he not Shakespeare enough for you? First off, the the guy hardly spoke a WORD, at least going by what people who knew him have said...he wasn't forcing anything...he was probably, no, he was definitely an anti-social who probably wasn't comfortable speaking. That's why he sounded weird.

"In the end he was just another geaky lonely kid"
Do you always simplify/stupify things like this? Seriously, your post is pretty pathetic. It usually takes more than just being "rejected one two many times"" to trigger the actions we saw from him. His parents haven't been investigated yet--And it's obvious there is something wrong mentally with him...may be genetic who knows...and if it is a genetic factor which it probably is who the hell can judge him? He is insane.

The law is harder to follow when you are insane...not that I would know from personal experience. It's the idiots who never caught on that he was insane and needed help who should be blamed--whether it's his parents, teachers or anyone else who was around him and noticed something but didn't say anything. People who are crazy don't actually realize that they need help. They think that what they are doing is rational. I have a relative who is schitzo--he thinks he was a Beatle. That's just to give an example of what crazy people think--even though it's completely unreasonable

[Fernando TD21]

I didn't read all the topic and I'm not replying to any one in particular, it is just that I read some things and I would like to give my opinion on certain things:

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. But guns make it much more easier, so people shouldn't be allowed to have easy acess to guns.

I'm asian and I'm a really quiet guy, does this make me a potencial serial killer? First of all some people are just shy (not my case). Second of all some of the quiet guys, like myself, just doesn't have good conversation skills (social-skills), call me anti-social for not developing those skills if you want. But I do talk to my friends, it's just that I'm not the kind of person that talks about everything with anyone.
I'm not saying that that guy wasn't suspect, I'm saying that people have their reasons to be quiet and even to "act weird" and that is not enough to make us potential killers.

That said, I also believe a person can have his reasons to become a killer. I'm not trying to justify his actions and be the devil's advocate. I'm only saying that he might have some explanations to why he did it.
I COULD be a killer IF I was dumber, IF I didn't have anything to live for, IF I had easy acess to weapons and IF I didn't have any good-sense (I think americans call it common sense). I have already been through some stressfull situations in school and high-school (bullying) and I must say that when one is pushed to his limits, one is capable of doing extraordinary or horrible things. I've been there before but I didn't do anything extreme and stupid, maybe because I lacked the courage or the stupidity. But I did have the wishes to do justice with my own hands (this is a true reason to believe that I could be a potential killer, if only I was more stupid).

Back to the killer, I read that he had some mental issues, so I don't know how far you can blame a person that doesn't have total control over his own self. I don't want to get into a religious subject, but if there is a God and if he is fair, he problably doesn't punish "crazy" people. Again, I'm not trying to prove he's not guilty, of course that he is a criminal anyway and if he was alive, he should be locked in jail.

I also believe that most of these sociopaths killers are actually products of society. As I said before, a normal person can do really stupid things when pushed to his limits. Just imagine what a crazy person can do when irritated. Bad things happen when people bully the wrong guy (I don't know if this is the case, I'm just considering the hypothesy). I'm assuming he was at least a little bit crazy, either that or he was really really stupid and evil. If he is only a bad guy and not crazy at all, then he did deserved worst things than a simple and coward death.

This is only my personal point of view. And yes I'm a geek who doesn't give a damn about beer and doesn't care about college parties. :nerd :wakeup

/rant

[Spurfect]

Well if he didn't believe in what he was saying he wouldn't have killed thirty people, including himself. Was he not Shakespeare enough for you? First off, the the guy hardly spoke a WORD, at least going by what people who knew him have said...he wasn't forcing anything...he was probably, no, he was definitely an anti-social who probably wasn't comfortable speaking. That's why he sounded weird.

"In the end he was just another geaky lonely kid"
Do you always simplify/stupify things like this? Seriously, your post is pretty pathetic. It usually takes more than just being "rejected one two many times"" to trigger the actions we saw from him. His parents haven't been investigated yet--And it's obvious there is something wrong mentally with him...may be genetic who knows...and if it is a genetic factor which it probably is who the hell can judge him? He is insane.

The law is harder to follow when you are insane...not that I would know from personal experience. It's the idiots who never caught on that he was insane and needed help who should be blamed--whether it's his parents, teachers or anyone else who was around him and noticed something but didn't say anything. People who are crazy don't actually realize that they need help. They think that what they are doing is rational. I have a relative who is schitzo--he thinks he was a Beatle. That's just to give an example of what crazy people think--even though it's completely unreasonable

I definitely think he is crazy, insane, a psychopath, all that good stuff. I'm not saying he's not. i mean he freaking killed 32 people. I just meant his video speech seemed contrived. but i'm not going to argue about it with you, it's just my opinion.

[Samr]

Our college got ANOTHER bomb threat today as well. Woke us up at 4:30, but apparently the threat was made the previous day. Of course, a false alarm.

I HATE copycats.

Anyone else having this kind of thing happen to them too?

[Jimcs50]

I do not think he was "crazy" in the normal connotation(schizophrenia). Disturbed? Yes. A sociopath? Yes. I just think he was selfish and a prick, and since he was turned down by women over and over, he just wanted to kill himself and at the same time, wanted to hurt as many people as he could in the process.

[Ginofan]

I saw a student on one of the news shows this morning, and she had mentioned that there should be some kind of link between people who sell guns and people who have been evaluated mentally. Meaning, if you've been diagnosed with a psychosis of some sort or any kind of mental health issue...anger management issues, etc. that you shouldn't be able to purchase a weapon. I was wondering if anyone knew if there was any kind of legislation like that being enforced in any state?

[Mixability]

High school classmates say gunman was bullied
Police say package sent to NBC News between shootings is of little use
Updated: 51 minutes ago
BLACKSBURG, Va. - Long before he killed 32 people in the worst mass shooting in U.S. history, Cho Seung-Hui was bullied by fellow high school students who mocked his shyness and the strange way he talked, former classmates said.

Cho, 23, a senior English major at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, killed 32 people in two attacks before taking his own life Monday. He sent a large multi-media package outlining his grievances against religion and the wealthy to NBC News, but police said Thursday that the material added little to their investigation.

The text, photographs and video in the package bristle with hatred toward unspecified people whom Cho, a South Korean immigrant, accused of having wronged him, adding to a portrait of a solitary man who rarely, if ever, managed normal social interactions.

Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech student who graduated with Cho from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., in 2003, recalled that Cho almost never opened his mouth and would ignore attempts to strike up a conversation.

Once, in an English class, the teacher had the students read aloud and, when it was Cho’s turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled in an interview with The Associated Press. Finally, after the teacher threatened to give him a failing grade for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded “like he had something in his mouth,” Davids said.

“As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, ‘Go back to China,’” Davids said.

Among Cho’s victims were Reema Samaha and Erin Peterson, who both graduated from Westfield High School last year. Police said it was not clear whether Cho singled them out.

‘The question mark kid’
Virginia Tech student Alison Heck said a suitemate of hers on campus found a mysterious question mark scrawled on the dry erase board on her door. The young woman went to the same high school as Cho, according to her Facebook page. Cho once scrawled a question mark on the sign-in sheet on the first day of a literature class, and other students came to know him as “the question mark kid.”

“I don’t know if she knew that it was him for sure,” Heck said. “I do remember that that fall that she was being stalked and she had mentioned the question mark. And there was a question mark on her door.”

Heck added: “She just let us know about it just in case there was a strange person walking around our suite.”

The young woman could not immediately be located for comment, via e-mail or telephone.

Regan Wilder, 21, who attended Virginia Tech, high school and middle school with Cho, said she was in several classes with Cho in high school, including advanced-placement calculus and Spanish. She said he walked around with his head down and almost never spoke. And when he did, it was “a real low mutter, like a whisper.”

Wilder said Cho was no friendlier in college, where “he always had that same damn blank stare, like glare, on his face. And I’d always try to make eye contact with him because I recognized the kid because I’d seen him for six years, but he’d always just look right past you like you weren’t there.”

[Mixability]

Go back to China?

I'm not automatically thinking it's true that they said that, but if it is?

These are college kids? :shootme

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Go back to China?

I'm not automatically thinking it's true that they said that, but if it is?

These are college kids? :shootme

It says high school, but I see what you're saying.

[Поповић]

Oh no, he got bullied so it's understandable.

[Mixability]

It says high school, but I see what you're saying.


Ah, ok. I don't even remember shit like that happening in high school. Kids these days.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Oh no, he got bullied so it's understandable.

I fail to see where anybody is saying that.

[Поповић]

Is that not what is implied?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Is that not what is implied?

If that's what you're reading in the presentation of a news story, well, then that's what you're reading in the presentation of a news story.

It's information from multiple, outside sources that claim to have known Cho and is presenting the information about what they say happened to Cho.

If you think that the simple presentation of that information (which is news) is implying an "understanding" of his actions, then you're going to believe that no matter what anybody says.

[FromWayDowntown]

I saw a student on one of the news shows this morning, and she had mentioned that there should be some kind of link between people who sell guns and people who have been evaluated mentally. Meaning, if you've been diagnosed with a psychosis of some sort or any kind of mental health issue...anger management issues, etc. that you shouldn't be able to purchase a weapon. I was wondering if anyone knew if there was any kind of legislation like that being enforced in any state?

I'm not personally aware of any such legislation that might have existed before this incident, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a proliferation of bills seeking to achieve that end across the country.

I wonder a bit about the Constitutional aspect of such legislation. Felons are generally prohibited from purchasing weapons (as I understand the law -- I don't do much criminal stuff; I've never attempted to purchase a weapon) and such prohibitions are permissible because those individuals have forfeited their 2nd Amendment rights. It would be somewhat different with someone who had been diagnosed with a psychosis or been treated for a mental health issue, because I think you'd get into some fairly arbitrary line drawing that would divest a large number of people of a specific right protected by the Second Amendment and you'd be doing so not based on what those people had done, but instead based upon who they are. To use an analogous right, I don't think that it would be a constitutionally sound argument to deny the right to vote to someone who has been diagnosed with a psychosis or treated for some type of behavioral disorder. Obviously, there is a significant difference (in terms of relationships with others) between the right to vote and the right to bear arms; but at a more fundamental level, the issue of when you can limit or eliminate someone's right to exercise a right is similar enough to suggest (at the very least) that there might be some legal question concerning the constitutional validity of such legislation.

[Поповић]

If that's what you're reading in the presentation of a news story, well, then that's what you're reading in the presentation of a news story.

It's information from multiple, outside sources that claim to have known Cho and is presenting the information about what they say happened to Cho.

If you think that the simple presentation of that information (which is news) is implying an "understanding" of his actions, then you're going to believe that no matter what anybody says.

Understanding. How nice. It's all perfectly logical how he ended up smoking 32 people because he had his feelings hurt.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Understanding. How nice. It's all perfectly logical how he ended up smoking 32 people because he had his feelings hurt.

Again, that's what you're taking away from the story.

Just because you think that doesn't necessarily make it true.

[Поповић]

Now it's nice, clean and antiseptic "information". That's all. Hey, the killer provided us with some "infortmation", wanna see?

[Jimcs50]

Again, that's what you're taking away from the story.

Just because you think that doesn't necessarily make it true.

Johnny, the reason why he was saying that about the story is because that line about being ridiculed was highlighted when it was posted here.

[Mixability]

Johnny, the reason why he was saying that about the story is because that line about being ridiculed was highlighted when it was posted here.

I just bolded it because I mistakenly thought it was college kids picking on the guy's race and lack of social skills.

[Spurminator]

That quote seems REALLY over the top. I know I haven't been in high school in ten years, but I can't imagine high school students being THAT harsh in class.

[Jimcs50]

But there is a common denominator with all these kids that go over the edge and kill other classmates or themselves, and that is, they are bullied and outcast. When will parents teach their kids to treat all fellow human beings with respect and dignity, like my wife and I have done with my son? Until we do that, there will be more of this happening again and again.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Johnny, the reason why he was saying that about the story is because that line about being ridiculed was highlighted when it was posted here.

It couldn't have been because that quote was what Danyo was specifically addressing in his post calling those who may have said those words as ill-educated?

[Jimcs50]

It couldn't have been because that quote was what Danyo was specifically addressing in his post calling those who may have said those words as ill-educated?

no


:lol

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

But there is a common denominator with all these kids that go over the edge and kill other classmates or themselves, and that is, they are bullied and outcast. When will parents teach their kids to treat all fellow human beings with respect and dignity, like my wife and I have done with my son? Until we do that, there will be more of this happening again and again.


Sounds nice, but it'll never happen. Someone will always feel left out, disrespected, etc.

I think JM sums it it up nicely:

People are strange when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven when you're down
When you're strange...

[ALVAREZ6]

A good read:
------------------------------------

Why they kill
By James Alan Fox, JAMES ALAN FOX is a professor of criminal justice at Northeastern University and the author of many books, including "The Will to Kill" (2006) and "Extreme Killing" (2005).

April 17, 2007


MASS MURDER certainly wasn't invented with the 1966 Texas Tower shootings. For as long as there has been history, there has been murder — including horrific mass murder. Certainly in the first half of the 20th century there were examples, such as the case of Howard Unruh, a mentally ill war veteran who killed 13 people in 13 minutes with a Luger pistol on the streets of Camden, N.J., in 1949.

But 1966 was a dramatic turning point. On Aug. 1, Charles Whitman, a student at the University of Texas at Austin, climbed up a 27-story tower and killed 14 people, wounding 31 others, before being shot dead by the police.

After the Whitman killings, the incidents started to climb. Mass murders (and, especially, mass shootings) became increasingly common — George Hennard in Killeen, Texas; Patrick Edward Purdy in Stockton; James Huberty in San Ysidro; Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., to name just a few — and the body counts began to grow as well. Seven of the eight largest mass shootings in modern U.S. history have occurred in the last 25 years.

The murder of at least 32 people at Virginia Tech on Monday may have been the worst, but it was only one of about 20 mass shootings that occur each year in the United States (a subset of the two dozen or so mass murders). A mass murder is defined as an event in which four or more people are killed in the same episode. Serial killings, by contrast, occur over an extended time.

What accounts for the increase? Is it possible that man (and yes, 95% of all mass murderers are men, who tend to be far more comfortable and better trained in using firearms) has simply grown more evil and bloodthirsty since 1966 than during the previous millenniums of human existence?

Of course not. But several changes have taken place that have made such incidents more common.

One, of course, is the change in the potency of weaponry. Before 1966, the best weapons available to most would-be killers were pistols, rifles, maybe a shotgun. That is no longer the case; today, semiautomatics are all too easily accessible.

But there also have been societal changes that have increased the incidence of mass killing. In studying mass murderers over 25 years, my colleague, Jack Levin, and I have identified five factors that exist in virtually all cases.

First, perpetrators have a long history of frustration and failure and a diminished ability to cope with life's disappointments.

Second, they externalize blame, frequently complaining that others didn't give them a chance. Sometimes they argue that their ethnic or racial group or gender isn't getting the breaks that others are. (An example of this is Marc Lepine, who killed 14 female engineering students at the Ecole Polytechnique of the University of Montreal, apparently because he felt that women were taking too many seats at the university.)

Third, these killers generally lack emotional support from friends or family. You've read the "he always seemed to be something of a loner" quote? It has a grounding in reality.

Fourth, they generally suffer a precipitating event they view as catastrophic. This is most often some sort of major disappointment: the loss of a job or the breakup of a relationship. In massacres at colleges and universities, it's often about getting a grade the shooter feels he didn't deserve. In 1991, a graduate student at the University of Iowa killed five people because he thought his physics dissertation should have won a prestigious $1,000 award.

Fifth, they need access to a weapon powerful enough to satisfy their need for revenge.

So what has changed? For one thing, the United States has become much more dog-eat-dog, more competitive in recent years. We admire those who achieve at any cost, and it seems that we have less compassion for those who fail. (Just look at how eager we are to vote people off the island or to reject them in singing competitions.) This certainly increases frustration on the part of losers.

Then there's the eclipse of traditional community: higher rates of divorce, the decline of church-going and the fact that more people live in urban areas, where they may not even know their neighbors. If mass murderers are isolated people who lack support, these trends only exacerbate the situation.

Many mass murderers, for example, are people who have picked up roots and moved. James Huberty, who used a 9-mm semiautomatic Uzi to kill 21 people during a 77-minute massacre at a McDonald's in San Ysidro in 1984, had moved to California from Ohio after losing his job. When he lost another job in California, he had no friends or extended family to fall back on. They were all in Ohio.

These days, we know an awful lot about why these events occur. We're beginning to understand the motivations behind events that, to many people, seem senseless. But that doesn't mean we can prevent them. We're not going to build fortresses out of our college campuses, nor should we.

It should give us some degree of consolation to know that these events are exceedingly rare. But they still occur, and they are among the sad and tragic prices we pay for the kind of open, modern, democratic society we live in.

[MannyIsGod]

That quote seems REALLY over the top. I know I haven't been in high school in ten years, but I can't imagine high school students being THAT harsh in class.Seriously? That seems light compared to what I know high school kids are capable of. And if no one else is going to say that it is understandable that someone can snap after a good deal of hatered is piled on them, I will. Thats not to say what he did is justified, but understanding how people have breaking points that can be reached is not justifying their actions.

[Bigzax]

the mind of a killer-


chink gone wrong and thats no lie
shame 33 had to fuckin die,

but now the fool dead,
no worries left,
but tree duzzen families
left all bereft

didn't like the fact,
that's a brutha on his chick,
got his fuckin ammo,
prepared for the click, click, click,

sent his vid-eo to nbc,
wanted to leave a fuckin legacy
about a man, with uh kids mind,
couldn't escape, so he left it all behind

and took out as many as he could,
it's not his fault he's just misunderstood,
chain the doe's, attach the locks,
take a deep breath and load the glocks,

these rich mutha fukkas, they's gots it cummin,
i'm eating ramin and fucking slummin,
tired of this shit, but i won't pout,
i walk the walk, take all you punks out

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Once more of his past is revealed--about his family, the runs ins with different people who saw him as crazy or potentially dangerous, his behavior--I hope people will come to realize that what he did--which isn't justifiable at all--was just as forseeable and preventable as it was unjustifiable, irrational, and sick.

The people who never said anything, or took it him seriously enough SHOULD feel guilty. We should all take more of a part in the "life guarding" aspect of reporting a killer, or a potential one, who has shown clear signs of hoiw should I say it...strangeness beyond normal strangeness

By now people should definitely realize what could happen, and how we can play a huge part in preventing it...

[Ginofan]

Once more of his past is revealed--about his family, the runs ins with different people who saw him as crazy or potentially dangerous, his behavior--I hope people will come to realize that what he did--which isn't justifiable at all--was just as forseeable and preventable as it was unjustifiable, irrational, and sick.

The people who never said anything, or took it him seriously enough SHOULD feel guilty. We should all take more of a part in the "life guarding" aspect of reporting a killer, or a potential one, who has shown clear signs of hoiw should I say it...strangeness beyond normal strangeness

By now people should definitely realize what could happen, and how we can play a huge part in preventing it...

But what exactly is "strangeness beyond normal strangeness"? How is anyone supposed to tell what is going "beyond" and what isn't? :wtf

[Ronaldo McDonald]

But what exactly is "strangeness beyond normal strangeness"? How is anyone supposed to tell what is going "beyond" and what isn't? :wtf

never talking to a roommate in 9 months, stalking girls and writing questions marks on doors etc. you should waatch what his creative writing teacher had to say about him. He wasn't just quiet or shy, he was mean and full of hate and had multiple personality disorders--unlike just having social anxiety, or depression he def. had a combination of things which allowed him to not only live in isolation for so long and not be socially active because of paranoia (which is a part of SA) but also to have no remorse.

His parents should have detected something wrong in all of his 23 years--even if he was just a little but socially deviative.

[Jelly]

That said, I also believe a person can have his reasons to become a killer. I'm not trying to justify his actions and be the devil's advocate. I'm only saying that he might have some explanations to why he did it.
I COULD be a killer IF I was dumber, IF I didn't have anything to live for, IF I had easy acess to weapons and IF I didn't have any good-sense (I think americans call it common sense). I have already been through some stressfull situations in school and high-school (bullying) and I must say that when one is pushed to his limits, one is capable of doing extraordinary or horrible things. I've been there before but I didn't do anything extreme and stupid, maybe because I lacked the courage or the stupidity. But I did have the wishes to do justice with my own hands (this is a true reason to believe that I could be a potential killer, if only I was more stupid).


I also believe that most of these sociopaths killers are actually products of society. As I said before, a normal person can do really stupid things when pushed to his limits. Just imagine what a crazy person can do when irritated. Bad things happen when people bully the wrong guy (I don't know if this is the case, I'm just considering the hypothesy). I'm assuming he was at least a little bit crazy, either that or he was really really stupid and evil. If he is only a bad guy and not crazy at all, then he did deserved worst things than a simple and coward death.
. :nerd :wakeup

/rant

I have to say, I find it disturbing that you use the word "stupid" more than any other to describe this guy and his actions. "normal people can do stupid things"? Stupidity seems to be this guy's primary flaw to you. Only toward the end do you manage to slip in the word "evil" - which I would say is this guys primary problem. Other appropriate adjectives to describe Cho and his actions would be "brutal" "savage" "cruel" "hateful" and "barbaric". He has committed a horrible, grisly crime, terrorizing a campus and taking 32 innocent lives. I just can't get over your post and how the word 'stupid' seems to sum it all up for you.

[Marklar MM]

Today...

Bomb threats in Cali/Michigan
Kid brings gun to school and kills self after threatening others and cop confrontation. North Carolina.
Threats in New Jersey
Threats in Florida.
Threats in Montana. (of all places)
Oregon-homemade bomb detonated in a hallway trashcan.
Threats in Tennessee
Boston
Bomb threat in Minnesota

Forget exactly where, but the news said that 2 teens were arrested in school and had guns and extra ammunition in their lockers or cars.

[Fernando TD21]

I have to say, I find it disturbing that you use the word "stupid" more than any other to describe this guy and his actions. "normal people can do stupid things"? Stupidity seems to be this guy's primary flaw to you. Only toward the end do you manage to slip in the word "evil" - which I would say is this guys primary problem. Other appropriate adjectives to describe Cho and his actions would be "brutal" "savage" "cruel" "hateful" and "barbaric". He has committed a horrible, grisly crime, terrorizing a campus and taking 32 innocent lives. I just can't get over your post and how the word 'stupid' seems to sum it all up for you.
I don't really understand what's the problem with me using the word stupid. :dramaquee If you haven't noticed yet, english is not my primary language. I'm sorry if I don't have a great vocabulary and I don't know many words to describe that.:wtf
I never said that stupidity is his primary flaw. What I said or at least what I tried to say in my previous post is that the guy was probably mentally ill. I don't know why the word stupid seens wrong to you, but for me it means that the guy wasn't able to make (right or good) decisions very well.

Unlike other people that seens to know the guy very well, I didn't know the guy at all. So I won't say that he was just pure evil unless someone who used to know him says that. By saying this, I'M NOT SAYING THAT HE WAS A NICE GUY.

I'll try to learn better words to describe these kind of bad characteristics, until then please replace the word stupid for anything that you think is more apropriate. :rolleyes I think it's stupid or retarded to find disturbing the fact that I can't find the perfect word to describe something bad.

[Fernando TD21]

I just read this (sorry if it was already posted):

Liviu Librescu was a Romanian-born aeronautical engineer who died in Monday's massacre at Virginia Tech University in Blacksburg, Virginia. Librescu, an engineering and math professor at the school for over 20 years, saved the lives of students by using his body to barricade a classroom door before he was murdered. His son, Joe Librescu, told reporters on Tuesday that his mother, Marlena Librescu, received e-mails from students shortly after learning of her husband's death. "My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," said Joe Librescu. "Students started opening windows and jumping out." , student Richard Mallalieu told the police, "I don't think my teacher got out."

The heroism of Liviu Librescu was the final act in the life of a man who resisted brutality across two centuries. The 76-year old Holocaust survivor was born in Romania in 1931, eight years before the Nazi invasion of Poland that ignited World War II. When Librescu was a boy, Romania allied itself with Nazi Germany and subjected Jewish families such as Librescu's to the cruelties of anti-Semitism. During World War II, Liviu Librescu was imprisoned at a labor camp in Transnistria and then deported along with his family and thousands of other Jews to a ghetto in the Romanian city of Focsani. According to a report compiled by the Romanian government in 2004, between 280,000 and 380,000 Jews were killed by Romania's Nazi-allied regime.

In the aftermath of World War II, Liviu Librescu was trapped behind the Iron Curtain that descended over Eastern Europe. In 1953, he earned an M.S. in aeronautical engineering from Bucharest's Polytechnic University. He then secured a position with Romania's state-run aerospace agency, where he studied aeroelasticity and unsteady aerodynamics. In 1969, Librescu earned a Ph.D. in fluid mechanics from the Academy of Sciences of Romania. The 1975 publication of "Elastostatics and kinetics of anisotropic and heterogeneous shell-type structures" marked a high-point in Librescu's career; however, he was ultimately punished when he refused to swear allegiance to Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu.

During the 1970s, Liviu Librescu requested permission to move to Israel, an act of defiance which cost him his job. After enduring years of government refusals, he finally received permission to leave Romania in 1978. In Israel, Librescu served as Professor of Aeronautical and Mechanical Engineering at Tel Aviv University and the Haifa Technion. In 1984, he traveled to Virginia, where he planned to spend a one-year sabbatical but instead built a new life.

As a professor at Virginia Tech, Liviu Librescu published over 1000 papers and received numerous awards for his work. He served as a member on the editorial board of 7 scientific journals and was invited as a guest editor of special issues of five other journals. His publications include "Random Vibration and Reliability of Composite Structures", "Thin-Walled Composite Beams: Theory and Application", and "Non-Classical Problems of the Theory and Behavior of Structures Exposed to Complex Environmental Conditions". Professor Nicolae Serban Tomescu, a former colleague, remembers Librescu as "strong and dignified" with "a huge affection for his students".

"His work", explains Joe Librescu, "was his life".
link (http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/1758/Liviu-Librescu-Virginia-Tech-Hero-Victim)

Props to that teacher who acted like a true hero on that tragic day. :clap

[Holt's Cat]

Waleed Shaalan, a 32-year-old graduate student, came to the United States from northern Egypt last year to study engineering. He lived among other Egyptian students in Blacksburg, Va., and was planning on bringing his wife and one-and-a-half-year-old son to America in May to live with him.

He was gunned down on Monday while he was studying in Norris Hall, but witnesses say he died a hero.

According to Randy Dymond, a civil engineering professor at Virginia Tech, Mr. Shaalan was in a classroom with another student when the gunman entered and opened fire.

Mr. Shaalan was badly wounded and lay beside the other student, who was not shot but played dead, as the gunman returned two times searching for signs of life. Just as the gunman noticed the student, Mr. Shaalan made a move to distract him, at which point he was shot a second time and died. The student believed that Mr. Shaalan purposefully distracted the shooter to save him, Mr. Dymond said.

"Waleed was bright, energetic and caring," Mr. Dymond said. "The reason we are in higher education is because there are students who are the bright light to the future. Waleed was one of them."

Equally social and studious, Mr. Shaalan was active in the Muslim Student Association at Virginia Tech, and he especially enjoyed participating in the group's community activities.

The Egyptian Consul has notified Mr.Shalaan's wife and parents, all of who live in Egypt. Mr. Shaalan's body will be flown back to his country in the near future, the vice consul, Mohamed Elghazawy, said.

"This is a very emotional time for his entire family, but especially his mother and father," Mr. Elghazawy said.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/waleed_shaalan/index.html

[Mixability]

Seriously? That seems light compared to what I know high school kids are capable of. And if no one else is going to say that it is understandable that someone can snap after a good deal of hatered is piled on them, I will. Thats not to say what he did is justified, but understanding how people have breaking points that can be reached is not justifying their actions.

"Go back to China" is not only light, but unbelievable. In high school, that would be the equivalent of saying, "shut up poopie face".

I always thought that bullying died down as you got older, because you could just ignore it. In elementary, I'd see kids get pushed and have their lunches knocked over. In middle school, you'd see a fight every now and then and have rumors spread through school. But in high school, you'd see a fight occassionally, but not because of bullying, it was usually somebody was messing around with someones gf or bf and shit started. If this kid snapped from being ignored or "bullied", he did have something wrong with him.

[ALVAREZ6]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h1EW5z1wdc

[Phonzie20]

this guy had a mission.

[MannyIsGod]

"Go back to China" is not only light, but unbelievable. In high school, that would be the equivalent of saying, "shut up poopie face".

I always thought that bullying died down as you got older, because you could just ignore it. In elementary, I'd see kids get pushed and have their lunches knocked over. In middle school, you'd see a fight every now and then and have rumors spread through school. But in high school, you'd see a fight occassionally, but not because of bullying, it was usually somebody was messing around with someones gf or bf and shit started. If this kid snapped from being ignored or "bullied", he did have something wrong with him.When someone kills that many people, something being wrong with them is probably assumed.

[baseline bum]

That quote seems REALLY over the top. I know I haven't been in high school in ten years, but I can't imagine high school students being THAT harsh in class.

Why not? High schools are filled with people who have nothing to lose, and who don't care about themselves, or anyone else... especially in freshman and sophomore years before people can drop out. I've seen insecure pricks do way worse to outcasts in high school.

[ALVAREZ6]

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2007/04/21/642903.html&cvqh=itn_vt
Va. Tech Gunman's Family Feels 'Lost'

By ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writers

3 hours ago

BLACKSBURG, Va. - Some have called him a loner, but Sun-Kyung Cho says her younger brother was quiet and reserved. She grew up with Seung-Hui Cho, but now says she feels as if she no longer knows him.

From afar, she learned her brother was the gunman who went on a rampage at Virginia Tech, killing 32 people before committing suicide to cap the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

Now, with her parents, she is "living a nightmare."

"We are humbled by this darkness," Sun-Kyung Cho said in a statement issued Friday to The Associated Press. "We feel hopeless, helpless and lost."

It was the Chos' first public comment since Monday's massacre. Raleigh, N.C., lawyer Wade Smith provided the statement to the AP after the Cho family reached out to him. Smith said the family would not answer any questions, and neither would he.

"I actually feel sympathy towards their family," said Virginia Tech freshman Andrea Hacker, 19. "A lot of people are probably looking down on them now, but they have no reason to."

"It's gotta be tragic for them as well. They're going through just as much grief as we are, plus the added pressure of having a brother do this."

The family's statement was issued during a statewide day of mourning for the victims. Silence fell across the Virginia Tech campus at noon and bells tolled in churches nationwide in memory of the victims.

At Blacksburg Presbyterian Church, a memorial service was held for Kevin Granata, a 45-year-old engineering science and mechanics professor.

Some 600 people packed the pews and stood along the walls while friends described Granata as a devoted father to three children, a beloved professor, a world-class researcher and a humble man of good humor.

"It's a hard day, but a day of trying to celebrate his life and his legacy," said Pastor Alex Evans.

Several memorial services are planned for Saturday, including Emily Hilscher and resident adviser Ryan Clark _ Cho's first two victims.

"We pray for their families and loved ones who are experiencing so much excruciating grief. And we pray for those who were injured and for those whose lives are changed forever because of what they witnessed and experienced," said Sun-Kyung Cho, a 2004 Princeton University graduate who works as a contractor for a State Department office that oversees American aid for Iraq.

"Each of these people had so much love, talent and gifts to offer, and their lives were cut short by a horrible and senseless act."

Authorities are in frequent contact with Cho's family, but have not placed them in protective custody, said Assistant FBI Director Joe Persichini, who oversees the bureau's local Washington office. Authorities believe they remain in the Washington area, but are staying with friends and relatives.

Persichini said the FBI and Fairfax County Police have assured Cho's parents that they will investigate any hate crimes directed at the family if and when they ever return to their Centreville home.

Cho's sister said her family will cooperate fully and "do whatever we can to help authorities understand why these senseless acts happened. We have many unanswered questions as well."

Cho's name was given as "Cho Seung-Hui" by police and school officials earlier this week. But the South Korean immigrant family said their preference was "Seung-Hui Cho." Many Asian immigrant families Americanize their names by reversing them and putting their surnames last.

While Cho clearly was seething and had been taken to a psychiatric hospital more than a year ago as a threat to himself, investigators are still trying to establish exactly what set him off, why he chose a dormitory and a classroom building for the rampage and how he selected his victims.

"The why and the how are the crux of the investigation," Virginia State Police spokeswoman Corinne Geller said. "The why may never be determined because the person responsible is deceased."

During the campus memorial, hundreds of somber students and area residents, most wearing the school's maroon and orange, stood with heads bowed on the parade ground in front of Norris Hall, the classroom building where all but two of the victims died. Along with the bouquets and candles was a sign reading, "Never forgotten."

"It's good to feel the love of people around you," said Alice Lo, a Virginia Tech graduate and friend of Jocelyne Couture-Nowak, a French instructor killed in the rampage. "With this evil, there is still goodness."

The mourners gathered in front of stone memorials, each adorned with a basket of tulips and an American flag. There were 33 stones _ one for each victim and Cho.

President Bush wore an orange and maroon tie in a show of support. The White House said he also asked top officials at the Justice, Health and Human Services and Education Departments to travel the country, talk to educators, mental health experts and others and compile a report on how to prevent similar tragedies.

Seven people hurt in the rampage remained hospitalized, at least one in serious condition.

[da_suns_fan]

See ya next time.