Floyd Mayweather Jr vs UFC??

[LEONARD]

When Mayweather was asked about the UFC a few weeks ago...

"UFC ain't $hit," Mayweather said. "It ain't but a fad. Anyone can put a tattoo on their head and get in a street fight. These are guys who couldn't make it in boxing. So they do [mixed martial arts]. Boxing is the best sport in the world and it's here to stay."

-----------------

Dana White responded... ( http://sportsline.com/boxing/story/10104940 )

"You know, Floyd Mayweather just came out and said some stupid $hit about Chuck Liddell," White said.

Last week, Mayweather -- on a conference call to help promote his May 5 fight with Oscar De La Hoya -- disrespected the UFC and the sport of MMA in general, specifically UFC light heavyweight champion Liddell. Mayweather questioned whether the dominant Liddell could hang with a good boxer.

"We should put Liddell against a good heavyweight, under Mayweather Promotions," Mayweather said last week. "If Chuck wins, then I'll give him a million dollars out of my own pocket."

Dana White -- himself a former amateur boxer before heading up the most successful MMA promotion in U.S. history -- scoffed at Mayweather's challenge and called Mayweather's box-office value into question.

"(He said) he'd pay a million dollars if Chuck could hang with a heavyweight boxer," White said Monday. "How about if he pays a million dollars to see if a heavyweight boxer can fight MMA with Chuck Liddell? Or, even better, I'll put up a million dollars of my own money if Floyd Mayweather can sell more than 10 tickets without Oscar De La Hoya."

-------------------

and more from Floyd...and now Dana has upp'd the anty even more..
http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_ylt=ApXdHVQpYMMz9_HLW.ZDbv05nYcB?slug=dw-mayweather041807

Ultimate challenge for Mayweather?

By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
April 18, 2007

Floyd Mayweather stands almost 5-foot-9, weighs 154 pounds, has a 72-inch reach and can drop most mortals with a single swing of either hand.

He's fast, athletic and dodges punches as well as anyone, maybe ever. In 13 world title fights, he won all 13. His next one is May 5 in Las Vegas, this time as a junior middleweight, against Oscar de la Hoya, as big a fight as boxing has seen in years.

His nickname may be "Pretty Boy," but he is one bad, bad man.

On Cinco de Mayo we'll find out if Mayweather can beat de la Hoya – he's the heavy favorite – but could he beat a snarling, menacing, multi-skilled champion of the Ultimate Fighting Championship?

How about lightweight (155 pound) champ Sean Sherk, who may stand just 5-foot-6, may suffer from a distinct reach disadvantage, but as a mixed martial arts master is schooled in "interdisciplinary forms of fighting that include jiu-jitsu, judo, karate, boxing, kickboxing, wrestling."

Could the best pound-for-pound fighter in the old combat sport (boxing) handle a champion in the new combat sport (UFC)?

"UFC's champions can't handle boxing. That's why they are in UFC." Mayweather said Tuesday from Las Vegas during a break in training. "Put one of our guys in UFC and he'd be the champion. Any good fighter, he'd straight knock them out."

Dana White, a one-time boxer and boxing instructor and current UFC president, laughs at that.

"Boxers couldn't become mixed martial artists. That's why they're boxers," White countered Wednesday from England where UFC has an event Saturday. "They are one trick ponies. Our guys can do everything. They can box, they can kick box, they can wrestle and do jiu-jitsu. They are much better athletes than boxers."

Mayweather may be right, but he'd have to be. Any boxer stepping into the UFC octagon would have to knock his opponent out before the mixed martial artist got a hold of him, because once the fight fell to the mat, where things get nasty, the boxer is all but finished.

But, as Mayweather points out, the often (by boxing standards) clumsy and lead-with-their-face UFC guys would have to walk through a hail of vicious jabs, crosses and hooks to get there.

"Take Chuck Liddell," Mayweather said of the UFC's biggest star and light heavyweight champion (about 205 pounds). "Put him in the ring with a (boxer) who is just 10-0 and Chuck Liddell would get punished."

So you'd punish a UFC champion, too?

"Come on, man. What'd you think? Am I just 10-0?"

Mayweather is 37-0.

Liddell, with six inches and 50 pounds on Mayweather, isn't possible, but someone like Sherk, someone his size? With that insane reach, unreal punching power and by UFC rules aided by small, light 4-ounce gloves would Mayweather carve up Sherk instantly? Or would Sherk fight throughout the barrage and get Mayweather in a clutch no ref will save him from?

"They wouldn't have a chance to grapple (us) because we'd knock them out," Mayweather said in general. "(The fighter) would be knocked out before he even touched us."

Of course, without having their fists taped (UFC rule) a boxer might just break his hand on the first hard punch. Or perhaps no punch is strong enough to stop a charging opponent.

No one really knows what would happen at such an elite level.

"I used to talk like Floyd Mayweather when I was involved in boxing," White said. "I talked just like him, until I educated myself about this sport. These guys are amazing athletes, Floyd Mayweather is one of the best boxers ever, (and) Sean Sherk will whoop his ass in under two minutes."

"Any day that Mayweather wants to put his money and his ass where his mouth is, I'm ready," White continued. "If he wants to step up, let's do it."

First off, Mayweather was talking mostly in general about his disdain for UFC – "Boxing is an art, UFC is a fad." But Mayweather has spent almost as much time this spring ripping UFC as de la Hoya, who he seems to consider as little more than a matinee idol useful for only increasing the purse.

"I never knew popularity to win any fight," Mayweather said. "I'll beat him and come home and watch basketball."

The UFC, though, is clearly on his mind. He brought it up on his own Tuesday. Earlier this month he cracked that "anyone can put a tattoo on their head and get in a street fight."

Mayweather may be a talker – loquacious doesn't begin to describe the 30-year-old – but he isn't dumb. So maybe he is setting up another big pay day in the event he dusts de la Hoya and boxing has little to offer. Or maybe he just wants to promote a fight involving others.

Of course, the economics of UFC would have to change to get Mayweather to participate. UFC fighters make a fraction of top boxers. As part of the family business, Mayweather, his dad and his uncle handle all aspects of his career. For the de la Hoya fight he'll earn millions.

"Why would I go into a sport paying hundreds of thousands when I'm in a sport paying $20 million?" Mayweather said.

Mayweather knows full well, though, that the pay per view money is there for the taking on something like this, a battle that would be intriguing at nearly every level. White would just about kill for this to go down, preferably with Mayweather involved as a fighter.

"I'm willing to put together a fight for Sean Sherk and Floyd Mayweather with numbers that would make sense for Floyd," White said. "And I guarantee you he would not accept it. Floyd Mayweather would never fight in the UFC because he would get his head ripped off."

Yes, he would. But only if Sherk didn't get his head ripped off first.

-----------------

I wouldn't mind seeing what Mayweather could do vs Sherk...it would sell a ton of PPV's I would think... :ihit

and add James Toney to the list of boxers that are talking trash about the UFC...
http://www.boxingconfidential.com/articles.php?id=1256

The fact that they're talking about it means they're taking notice. At least Toney admits that most boxers wouldn't hang in an MMA match... :lol

[mardigan]

Man, i ve had this debate with Cornbread before. I think Mayweather would get killed. All Sherk would have to do is keep his head down, and get close enough to get his hands onb him. Then it would be game over

[mardigan]

I do like how Tony said that 99% of boxers would get their ass whooped, but he is the one percent, good self confident. Randy would kill him though

[lebomb]

Personally I think a boxer would have a hard time against a person that can use his arms as well as legs and that can grapple. Once missed punch by a boxer (dont give a shit who it is) and the fight is over. A grappler would make a boxer tap out period.

[mardigan]

Personally I think a boxer would have a hard time against a person that can use his arms as well as legs and that can grapple. Once missed punch by a boxer (dont give a shit who it is) and the fight is over. A grappler would make a boxer tap out period.
Yea, your right. A guy like Cro Cop would never even let a boxer get close enough to him to do any damage. The boxers legs would be destroyed

[desflood]

Right now I've got a picture in my head of Sherk laying the GnP on Mayweather, and there's a big old smile on my face. Thanks for making my day, Leonard :spin

[LEONARD]

Right now I've got a picture in my head of Sherk laying the GnP on Mayweather, and there's a big old smile on my face. Thanks for making my day, Leonard :spin

:lol

any time... :spin

[cornbread]

The problem with this whole boxing vs. mma is that they're two different sports. They may have similarities in the fact that the goal is to win a fight, but the rules are completely different. For Mayweather to make this happen, either he would have to compromise his years of training and fighting by fighting under mma rules or Sherk would have to compromise his years of training and fighing by fighting under boxing rules. Under boxing rules, Mayweather wins in the first round. Under mma rules, Sherk wins in the first round. Two TOTALLY different games.

[LEONARD]

Of course it's 2 totally different sports...

the point is that FMJ spouts off and says anybody can do it. Surely a world class boxer could, right? ;)

[mardigan]

Of course it's 2 totally different sports...

the point is that FMJ spouts off and says anybody can do it. Surely a world class boxer could, right? ;)
Agreeed, I think most people realize its two different sports with different rules and skill sets, but yea, he shouldnt be spouting off if he isnt ready to back it up

[2centsworth]

"Why would I go into a sport paying hundreds of thousands when I'm in a sport paying $20 million?" Mayweather said.

Mayweather spouting off is part of his marketing. He plays the bad guy that everyone wants to beat up but can't. Very much like Prince Nassem Hamed.

His MMA stuff can't be taken seriously. BTW, he's one fighter that I think would do better than what people think in MMA. Good strikers like Chuck Liddell are hard to get to the ground. Just ask Tito.

[cornbread]

Good strikers like Chuck Liddell are hard to get to the ground. Just ask Tito.

Chuck Liddel wrestled in college. His skill in wrestling makes him hard to take down, not his punching ability.

[mardigan]

Mayweather spouting off is part of his marketing. He plays the bad guy that everyone wants to beat up but can't. Very much like Prince Nassem Hamed.

His MMA stuff can't be taken seriously. BTW, he's one fighter that I think would do better than what people think in MMA. Good strikers like Chuck Liddell are hard to get to the ground. Just ask Tito.
Well thats also due to Chucks awesome take down defense, not just his striking. Mayweather would never be able to prevent a take down

[cornbread]

Of course it's 2 totally different sports...

the point is that FMJ spouts off and says anybody can do it. Surely a world class boxer could, right? ;)

Yeah, I find his attitude pretty disrespectful and ignorant. Floyd needs to realize that it's not every fighter/martial artists goal to become a boxer.

The whole "these are the guys who couldn't make it in boxing" argument is just ridiculous. For example, Matt Hughes grew up on the farm in Illinois. The guy liked to fight when he was growing up so he joined the wrestling team. There probably wasn't even a boxing gym anywhere near Hillsboro. He improves to the point were he becomes an all-american in college. What's the most logical transition from here for Matt to make money from his years of hard work and training? Becoming a boxer or fighting mma where he can actually put his years of training to use?


I realize he's just trying to create hype but it's annoying.

[2centsworth]

Chuck Liddel wrestled in college. His skill in wrestling makes him hard to take down, not his punching ability.
so his punching ability has nothing to do with him being hard to take down?

[cornbread]

Chuck Liddel wrestled in college. His skill in wrestling makes him hard to take down, not his punching ability.

I take that back. He combines wrestling, evasiveness, and striking for TD defense. Mayweather obviously has the punching but he won't have the wrestling or the mma footwork.

[LEONARD]

so his punching ability has nothing to do with him being hard to take down?

very little

[2centsworth]

very little
we'll have to disagree on that one. His ability to punch keeps fighters away from him and when they do attack he makes them pay the price.

His ability to strike is why he's the champ!

do I think MW would win a fight in MMA against top comp. because of his boxing, no. However, if he did decide to fight in MMA he would be the biggest name and best paid. For someone who can't sell 10 tickets according to Dana White, Dana sure wants to pay him a lot of money.

this MMA vs Boxing is as stupid as East Coast vs West Coast in Rap. Both sports are very good and very different.

[LEONARD]

we'll have to disagree on that one. His ability to punch keeps fighters away from him and when they do attack he makes them pay the price.

His ability to strike is why he's the champ!

do I think MW would win a fight in MMA against top comp. because of his boxing, no. However, if he did decide to fight in MMA he would be the biggest name and best paid. For someone who can't sell 10 tickets according to Dana White, Dana sure wants to pay him a lot of money.

this MMA vs Boxing is as stupid as East Coast vs West Coast in Rap. Both sports are very good and very different.

Chuck has a great sprawl and is hard to keep down if you do get him there (due to his wrestling experience). Of course you DO have to get thru his strikes to try to take him down, but that's just a small part of his excellent overall takedown defense. There are plenty of great strikers out there that lose easily in MMA because they get taken down...

Dana wants to embarass Mayweather for running his mouth about the UFC...and sell some PPV's at the same time...

[2centsworth]

Chuck has a great sprawl and is hard to keep down if you do get him there (due to his wrestling experience). Of course you DO have to get thru his strikes to try to take him down, but that's just a small part of his excellent overall takedown defense. There are plenty of great strikers out there that lose easily in MMA because they get taken down...

Dana wants to embarass Mayweather for running his mouth about the UFC...and sell some PPV's at the same time...
Agree. Just ironic Dana wants to pay a boxer multimillions of dollars.

[THE ONE AND ONLY]

in a boxing match the boxer would win
in a mma fight the mma fighter would win
it just depends on what rules the fighters are going on

[tlongII]

Mayweather would knock Sherk out. Simple as that. Sherk wouldn't be able to grab him because he'd be asleep. There are many MMA champs that could beat their boxing counterpart, but this isn't one of those instances.

[IX_Equilibrium]

we'll have to disagree on that one. .


If you were correct, Cheick Kongo would have been able to beat the one dimensional and mediocre Carmelo Marrero.

[IX_Equilibrium]

Mayweather would knock Sherk out. Simple as that. Sherk wouldn't be able to grab him because he'd be asleep. There are many MMA champs that could beat their boxing counterpart, but this isn't one of those instances.

Is being stupid a gimmick of yours, or genuine?

[tlongII]

Is being stupid a gimmick of yours, or genuine?

You remind me of the guy in your sig. Sherk has never been hit like Mayweather would hit him. Freaking Chuck Liddell puts people to sleep in the UFC! Just think what a world-class boxer would do!

[IX_Equilibrium]

Freaking Chuck Liddell puts people to sleep in the UFC! Just think what a world-class boxer would do!


Chuck Liddell has a skill called "takedown defense". You may want to look that term up.

If you think Mayweather even has a clue as to how and stop a wrestler like Sherk from doing a double leg takedown on him, then you seriously need to stop visiting the many methlabs in Oregon.

[LEONARD]

Mayweather would knock Sherk out. Simple as that. Sherk wouldn't be able to grab him because he'd be asleep. There are many MMA champs that could beat their boxing counterpart, but this isn't one of those instances.

:lol :lol :lol

oh wait, I forgot to add...

:lol :lol :lol

[tlongII]

:lol :lol :lol

oh wait, I forgot to add...

:lol :lol :lol

We'll never know since Dana isn't going to offer Mayweather $20M. That's what it would take. Floyd would drop him with his first punch.

[LEONARD]

If it's just that easy, why not do it for a few million?? That's less work than one of his practices...

[tlongII]

If it's just that easy, why not do it for a few million?? That's less work than one of his practices...

There's no point to it. Floyd makes more money than that fighting tomato cans.

[IX_Equilibrium]

We'll never know since Dana isn't going to offer Mayweather $20M. That's what it would take.

No, we'll never know because Mayweather is too much of a pussy to back up his own shit talking. He knows he would get taken down easily and get the shit beaten out of him.

[LEONARD]

There's no point to it. Floyd makes more money than that fighting tomato cans.

$3M to throw one punch and make the sport that's over-taken boxing in terms of popularity look bad? Seems like a no-brainer to me... :lol

Isn't this his last fight anyway against ODLH? What would he have to lose?

[2centsworth]

$3M to throw one punch and make the sport that's over-taken boxing in terms of popularity look bad? Seems like a no-brainer to me...

does MMA make more money than boxing now? I haven't done any research, but you seem like a good person to ask. I would include TV rights, endorsements, etc....

[TheTruth]

what the hell does it matter? Mayweather is a boxer. Liddell is a MMA fighter. Mayweather would destroy Liddell in a boxing ring, Liddell would do the same to Mayweather in the octagon. WHO GIVES A SHIT?

[IX_Equilibrium]

Liddell would do the same to Mayweather in the octagon. WHO GIVES A SHIT?


Mayweather is stating the contrary, hence this discussion.

[LEONARD]

does MMA make more money than boxing now? I haven't done any research, but you seem like a good person to ask. I would include TV rights, endorsements, etc....

Who knows...that's broad question...


what the hell does it matter? Mayweather is a boxer. Liddell is a MMA fighter. Mayweather would destroy Liddell in a boxing ring, Liddell would do the same to Mayweather in the octagon. WHO GIVES A SHIT?

Everybody knows that (although Liddell vs Mayweather isn't really a discussion point due to weightclass...Sherk vs Mayweather is the challenge issued by Dana White).

The point is that Mayweather runs his mouth about the sport and how him and other boxers would KO MMA fighters before they could take them down, but he'll never back it up because he'd get waxed...

[mardigan]

what the hell does it matter? Mayweather is a boxer. Liddell is a MMA fighter. Mayweather would destroy Liddell in a boxing ring, Liddell would do the same to Mayweather in the octagon. WHO GIVES A SHIT?
Can you not read? If he hadnt said what he said then we wouldnt be talking about it. He obviously thinks he could win in the octagon, so therefore the conversation before you was sprung

[LEONARD]

LOL...3 of us pointing out the same thing to "TheTruth" in a 2 min span :D

[mardigan]

LOL...3 of us pointing out the same thing to "TheTruth" in a 2 min span :D
:lol Oh well, he is acting like we are a bunch of high schoolers that just brought this up at a lunch conversation.

[TheTruth]

My statement was directed more towards Dana/Mayweather . I know all they want to do is sell tickets. But they both have to know that neither fighting group stands a chance against the other in the others home ring. Just like all of you know it to be true.

Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance TLong.

[IX_Equilibrium]

All Mayweather has to do is keep his trap shut concerning MMA until he is ready to step into the octagon and back up his talk.

[lebomb]

My boss is a former golden gloves champ.......he thinks like Mayweather......he says a good boxer would knock the livin shit out of an MMA fighter. He said the MMA fighter would not get close enough to grapple.

Straight from my bosses own mouth.

[mardigan]

My boss is a former golden gloves champ.......he thinks like Mayweather......he says a good boxer would knock the livin shit out of an MMA fighter. He said the MMA fighter would not get close enough to grapple.

Straight from my bosses own mouth.
Well, he would probably get his ass kicked too, you dont have to get that close to a boxer when you can kick the shit out of their legs

[IX_Equilibrium]

Well, he would probably get his ass kicked too, you dont have to get that close to a boxer when you can kick the shit out of their legs

Exactly. Like Marco Ruas did back in the old days. That guy had some sick leg kicks

I will add that alot of these boxers don't understand that they can't react quick enough to stop a shoot from an experianced wrestler. The only way to stop a shoot is a great sprawl, like Liddell posseses, or a well timed knee (which is alot more rare, but has happened).

[cornbread]

My boss is a former golden gloves champ.......he thinks like Mayweather......he says a good boxer would knock the livin shit out of an MMA fighter. He said the MMA fighter would not get close enough to grapple.

Straight from my bosses own mouth.
Pride can cloud an intelligent man's judgement.

[tlongII]

My statement was directed more towards Dana/Mayweather . I know all they want to do is sell tickets. But they both have to know that neither fighting group stands a chance against the other in the others home ring. Just like all of you know it to be true.

Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance TLong.

Mayweather would knock him out. Just watch Floyd fight. He is WAY faster than Sherk. Sherk would never get a hold of him.

[mardigan]

Mayweather would knock him out. Just watch Floyd fight. He is WAY faster than Sherk. Sherk would never get a hold of him.
He wouldnt have to, Floyd would get his legs broken before he could hit Sherk once

[LEONARD]

Mayweather would knock him out. Just watch Floyd fight. He is WAY faster than Sherk. Sherk would never get a hold of him.

Oh I get it...today's 420...you're just really stoned...

:hat :smokin :hat :smokin :hat :smokin :hat :smokin

[pussyface]

...really funny quote by mayweather about getting facial tatoos and starting street fights. usually, hes not that funny but that is hilarious.

i can't believe no one is has said this yet, but his point is well taken in that boxing features world-class athletes (olympians like de la hoya/jones jr. etc) while UFC is something else, has no tradition, and very well could see its popularity wain soon ala poker, pogs, and pro wrestling.

For the love of god, guys that are in UFC wouldn't be in UFC if they were the type of elite athlete that could make it in boxing.

This is proven overwhelmingly by economics. If any of these UFC guys had been talented enough to make it in boxing at a high level (like a mayweather), of course they would be boxing.

the economics of boxing provide huge/overwhelming incentive that make it the "major leagues" of guys who are truly talented pugilists. Top boxers can make 10's of millions, top MMA get 10's of thousands.

A UFC meathead wouldn't be in MMA if they had the sort of talent a top boxer has.

[pussyface]

relative to boxing (where fighters go up against OLYMPIC freakin' champion world class athletes), fighting in the UFC is like taking on the toughest guy at the local biker bar or some shit.

[cornbread]

Your arrogant bullshit has been MIA since the Mavs got embarrased so now you bring it to the mma threads. :lol I see how it is.

You need to do a little research before you sound off. There is a history behind mma that you obviously know nothing about. There are olympic atheletes who compete in mma who you nothing about. Top mma guys get paid more than 10's of thousands but you didn't know that.

My question is this. The economic opportunity is greater in boxing so why are there no olympic wrestlers or judokas in that sport? These are both world class atheletes btw.

[LEONARD]

...really funny quote by mayweather about getting facial tatoos and starting street fights. usually, hes not that funny but that is hilarious.

i can't believe no one is has said this yet, but his point is well taken in that boxing features world-class athletes (olympians like de la hoya/jones jr. etc) while UFC is something else, has no tradition, and very well could see its popularity wain soon ala poker, pogs, and pro wrestling.

For the love of god, guys that are in UFC wouldn't be in UFC if they were the type of elite athlete that could make it in boxing.

This is proven overwhelmingly by economics. If any of these UFC guys had been talented enough to make it in boxing at a high level (like a mayweather), of course they would be boxing.

the economics of boxing provide huge/overwhelming incentive that make it the "major leagues" of guys who are truly talented pugilists. Top boxers can make 10's of millions, top MMA get 10's of thousands.

A UFC meathead wouldn't be in MMA if they had the sort of talent a top boxer has.

Wow...where to start.

1. MOST guys in the UFC were NEVER in boxing to begin with. Most have BJJ, wrestling, or other martial arts backgrounds. Very few started as boxers, so it's kinda off to say they couldn't make it in boxing. Mayweather's shot at the UFC makes no sense...

2. No Olympian caliber athletes? You mean like...Matt Lindland? Mark Coleman? Kevin Jackson? Among others worldwide. How about all the NCAA champion wrestlers that are in the UFC and other org's? There are PLENTY of top flight athletes in MMA...even if they weren't olympic boxers. Try not to be TOO shocked if MMA if an olympic sport someday...

3. Tito and Chuck each got about $3M after PPV share for their fight on Dec 30th. "10's of thousands" for the top guys is a bit extreme...

4. You clearly know jack $hit about MMA. And after what you've said here, you can't argue that you do. I'm sure it sucks to watch your sport flame out. What's the next big fight after this weekend?? When was the last big fight? The finale on The Contender? :lol

[pussyface]

i see that I was wrong on the olympic caliber athlete bit, thanks for clearing me up on that fellas.

here's what I will say and what still holds true.

The greatest and MOST TALENTED athletes in America don't go into MMA. They go into football, or basketball, or boxing for instance. This may not be true 100% but it is certainly the general rule.

Just like people say (correctly) that USA soccer suffers because the great athletes in America don't become soccer players because they can make 10's of millions domestically in other sports like basketball and football, the blue chip athletes of today sure as shit are not getting into this UFC act.

The most talented will gravitate to a mainstream sport that isn't a subculture put on an outsider cable tv station like SpikeTV with a niche audience. They'll chose the sport where they can earn tons more, get tons more media attention, and have the chance to be on the cover of sports illustrated and be compared to michael jordan and tiger woods and shit.

Do you disagree with this analysis?

[pussyface]

im not an MMA hater, by the way.
i think there is something to it.

i just think boxing is way, way cooler.

[pussyface]

You need to do a little research before you sound off. There is a history behind mma that you obviously know nothing about.

You have got to be kidding me.

In the realm of americana and being a relevent part of history/culture boxing is the coolest fucking thing ever in the USA just behind baseball for god's sake.

the reason why everyone agrees boxing is not doing it right right now is because its past is so glorious its ridiculous. ask your grandpa about joe louis and max schmelling and these guys and look at muhammed ali, one of the great figures of the 20th century period.

these guys are fucking alltime american icons, right up there with Frank Sinatra and Elvis Pressley for crying out loud.

the great american authors (hemmingway, kerouc, miller, etc.) wrote extensively about attending boxing matches and the poetic but ballstothewall nature of the sport.

...all of this makes MMA look irrelevent and feel like nascar by comparison if you ask me. I know as much about hoyce gracie or whoever as the next person, but it ain't on the same level for me.

[LEONARD]

i see that I was wrong on the olympic caliber athlete bit, thanks for clearing me up on that fellas.

here's what I will say and what still holds true.

The greatest athletes in America don't go into MMA. They go into football, or basketball, or boxing for instance. This may not be true 100% but it is certainly the general rule.

Just like people say USA soccer suffers because the great athletes in America don't become soccer players because they can make 10's of millions domestically in other sports like basketball and football, the blue chip athletes of today sure as shit are not getting into this UFC act.

The most talented will gravitate to a mainstream sport that isn't a subculture put on an outsider cable tv station like SpikeTV with a niche audience. They'll chose the sport where they can earn tons more, get tons more media attention, and have the chance to be on the cover of sports illustrated and be compared to michael jordan and tiger woods and shit.

Do you disagree with this analysis?

The greatest athletes don't go into boxing either...if they do, where are they?? Why has boxing been in the shitter for years if there are so many stud athletes choosing boxing as their #1 sport??

More and more guys will be choosing MMA as their sport in the future IMO.

Niche audience? Since when is males 18-34 "niche"? I think that's called a big target for most networks. It's probably safe to assume that you don't much about the ratings that the UFC draws in that demographic...right?

MMA can currently be seen on:

Spike TV (UFC)
FSN (Pride and IFL)
ION (Bodogfight)
Vs (WEC)
MyNetworkTV (IFL)
Showtime (Elite XC, K-1)
HBO (UFC) - starting this summer

other deals are in the works, including major network TV and ESPN. It's not just Spike TV as you said...

And top fighters are everywhere these days. The front page of SI isn't too far off IMO...

Couture will appear on "The Unit" on CBS on May 8th...
http://www.nbcsports.com/ufc/1448151/detail.html

Tito will be on "Mad TV" on tonight...
http://www.nbcsports.com/ufc/1440624/detail.html

Chuck on "Entourage"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-CtW8roW_f8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jv5wx3bSav4

Chuck in Sport Illustrated
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/04/09/ultlimate.workout0409/index.html?eref=nbc_sports

Couture appeared on ESPN News
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cCky20dpm8w

and was also on 2 episodes of Pro's vs Joe's last season.

Tito on NUMB3RS...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aCuWtFg7H5k

Chuck interview with Dan Patrick in ESPN the Magazine
http://evilmaster-mma.blogspot.com/2007/03/espn-warming-up-to-mma.html

Dana White on ESPN News "Hot List" on 4/4/07
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1meyh_danawhite1hotlist

ESPN coverage of UFC 69 on SportsCenter on 4/8/07
http://sports.espn.go.com/keyword/search?searchString=ufc&page=multimedia&src=m_fp&rT=sports

Crocop article on MSNBC - 4/19/07
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18197148/

Rich Franklin and Dana White on O'Reilly
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-uKxxRsfpQs

Couture on The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1nlzk_craigfergusonrandycouture

Chuck on Conan O'Brien
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyoae_chuck-liddell-on-conan

and on and on...

What else ya go?

[LEONARD]

In the realm of americana and being a relevent part of history/culture boxing is the coolest fucking thing ever in the USA just behind baseball for god's sake.

the reason why everyone agrees boxing is not doing it right right now is because its past is so glorious its ridiculous.

LOL...so that's why?? They just set the bar too high, huh?

I thought it had something to do with lack of talented marketable fighters, corruption, poorly run org's, etc etc.

and the history behind MMA that was being referred to is probably Pankration...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

"Pankration, as practiced in the ancient world, combined elements of both boxing (pygme/pygmachia) and wrestling (pale) to create a broad fighting sport similar to today's mixed martial arts."

and not Royce Gracie...

[pussyface]

The greatest athletes don't go into boxing either...if they do, where are they?? Why has boxing been in the shitter for years if there are so many stud athletes choosing boxing as their #1 sport??

More and more guys will be choosing MMA as their sport in the future IMO.

Niche audience? Since when is males 18-34 "niche"? I think that's called a big target for most networks. It's probably safe to assume that you don't much about the ratings that the UFC draws in that demographic...right?

MMA can currently be seen on:

Spike TV (UFC)
FSN (Pride and IFL)
ION (Bodogfight)
Vs (WEC)
MyNetworkTV (IFL)
Showtime (Elite XC, K-1)
HBO (UFC) - starting this summer

other deals are in the works, including major network TV and ESPN. It's not just Spike TV as you said...

And top fighters are everywhere these days. The front page of SI isn't too far off IMO...

Couture will appear on "The Unit" on CBS on May 8th...
http://www.nbcsports.com/ufc/1448151/detail.html

Tito will be on "Mad TV" on tonight...
http://www.nbcsports.com/ufc/1440624/detail.html

Chuck on "Entourage"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-CtW8roW_f8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jv5wx3bSav4

Chuck in Sport Illustrated
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/04/09/ultlimate.workout0409/index.html?eref=nbc_sports

Couture appeared on ESPN News
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cCky20dpm8w

and was also on 2 episodes of Pro's vs Joe's last season.

Tito on NUMB3RS...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aCuWtFg7H5k

Chuck interview with Dan Patrick in ESPN the Magazine
http://evilmaster-mma.blogspot.com/2007/03/espn-warming-up-to-mma.html

Dana White on ESPN News "Hot List" on 4/4/07
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1meyh_danawhite1hotlist

ESPN coverage of UFC 69 on SportsCenter on 4/8/07
http://sports.espn.go.com/keyword/search?searchString=ufc&page=multimedia&src=m_fp&rT=sports

Crocop article on MSNBC - 4/19/07
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18197148/

Rich Franklin and Dana White on O'Reilly
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-uKxxRsfpQs

Couture on The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1nlzk_craigfergusonrandycouture

Chuck on Conan O'Brien
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyoae_chuck-liddell-on-conan

and on and on...

What else ya go?

nothing, man. i pretty much made my case in the part where i said "do you disagree with this?"

once you did, it pretty much became a matter where I can't convince you, and you can't canvince me that you aren't in UFC fanboy denial of economic and social realities that are in play at present.










....MadTV appearances not withstanding.

[LEONARD]

nothing, man. i pretty much made my case in the part where i said "do you disagree with this?"

once you did, it pretty much became a matter where I can't convince you, and you can't canvince me that you aren't in UFC fanboy denial of economic and social realities that are in play at present.

MadTV appearances not withstanding.

Um, ok...

[pussyface]

haha I am just realizing that the examples you have provided are laughable and unflattering to UFC.

Guest star on shitty CBS drama no one watches?..... very WWF
MadTV appearance? ....need i say more? not exactly a-list territory.
An article on one MMA-er in SI? ...i could produce literally dozens of SI boxing COVER STORIES from its rich history as an American institution

1 ESPNnews appearance? ...laughable that you think this makes them big time. girls high school basketball players make 1 espnnews appearance too.

etc. etc. etc.

none of those appearances are any more a-list than what someone in the wwf could get, ya know?

[pussyface]

...everyone knows MMA and UFC have lots of momentum right now in pop culture. Im certainly not denying that.

what we don't know is whether it will continue to grow or peter out. Months ago, i could have shown you the same links for the same type of stuff while the poker phase was going on. (poker players on late night shows, doing guest spots, interviewed on espn ect.....think about it, UFC Partisan Man.)

...of course, like poker, some people will always be interested in MMA. that shit ain't going anywhere in that sense. ....doesn't mean its popularity won't wain ala poker etc.



MMA just doesn't have the kind of foothold in the culture that boxing has.
ANY logical person (non-UFC partisan fanboy) would acknowledge that, it isn't really even a slight to MMA.

[pussyface]

when was the last time a film about fighting in a steel cage got major consideration for academy awards (rocky, cinderella man, million dollar baby, against the ropes, etc.)?

my point, i guess, is just that boxing is so much more firmly entrenched in the American cultural landscape that it is not even fair to compare the two.

the result of this, obviously, is that more of the most talented athletes are going to gravitate towards the more established and profitable sport. i dont know how anyone can dispute this.

[LEONARD]

haha I am just realizing that the examples you have provided are laughable and unflattering to UFC.

Guest star on shitty CBS drama no one watches?..... very WWF
MadTV appearance? ....need i say more? not exactly a-list territory.
An article on one MMA-er in SI? ...i could produce literally dozens of SI boxing COVER STORIES from its rich history as an American institution

1 ESPNnews appearance? ...laughable that you think this makes them big time. girls high school basketball players make 1 espnnews appearance too.

etc. etc. etc.

none of those appearances are any more a-list than what someone in the wwf could get, ya know?

I must've missed where I said that MMA has a greater history than boxing?? Of course it has a rich history...it USED to be a great sport. But it's HISTORY now...

I mentioned Pankration because that's probably what cornbread was referring to when he said that MMA does have a history that you don't know anything about...

The reason for posting those things is because they are a start, and an indication to the leaps in popularity of MMA.

Please don't mention "WWF" because it's garbage and not even a sport...

Bottom line: You're spouting off about MMA and you know NOTHING about it based on what you've said here. Boxing has been in decline for years and MMA is the fastest growing sport in the US right now. It's got the boxing people scared, otherwise they wouldn't even give it a second thought...

[LEONARD]

when was the last time a film about fighting in a steel cage got major consideration for academy awards (rocky, cinderella man, million dollar baby, against the ropes, etc.)?

my point, i guess, is just that boxing is so much more firmly entrenched in the American cultural landscape that it is not even fair to compare the two.

the result of this, obviously, is that more of the most talented athletes are going to gravitate towards the more established and profitable sport. i dont know how anyone can dispute this.

Continue grasping to history and see where the 2 sports are at in 5 yrs...

Where are these great up and coming fighters? :wtf

How old are you? Just curious.

[LEONARD]

Months ago, i could have shown you the same links for the same type of stuff while the poker phase was going on. (poker players on late night shows, doing guest spots, interviewed on espn ect.....think about it, UFC Partisan Man.)

...of course, like poker, some people will always be interested in MMA. that shit ain't going anywhere in that sense. ....doesn't mean its popularity won't wain ala poker etc.

Poker? I thought this was the "other sports" forum??? :wtf

[cornbread]

You have got to be kidding me.

In the realm of americana and being a relevent part of history/culture boxing is the coolest fucking thing ever in the USA just behind baseball for god's sake.

the reason why everyone agrees boxing is not doing it right right now is because its past is so glorious its ridiculous. ask your grandpa about joe louis and max schmelling and these guys and look at muhammed ali, one of the great figures of the 20th century period.

these guys are fucking alltime american icons, right up there with Frank Sinatra and Elvis Pressley for crying out loud.

the great american authors (hemmingway, kerouc, miller, etc.) wrote extensively about attending boxing matches and the poetic but ballstothewall nature of the sport.

...all of this makes MMA look irrelevent and feel like nascar by comparison if you ask me. I know as much about hoyce gracie or whoever as the next person, but it ain't on the same level for me.

There's more to history than what your grandfather told you or what has happened in America in the 20th century. The history of mma is not really related to Americana. That's why I wasn't kidding when I said you should do some research. I know from your previous posts that you're an educated guy. So your takes on mma lead me to believe that you haven't been exposed to much information about mma. I'm not talking about UFC marketing hype or Mayweather quotes, but real history. It's a fascinating story that can't really be covered in one post.

I love boxing and always have. I've read biographies on Ali, watched countless boxing matches, "When we were Kings" is one of my favorite films, I will be watching tonight and will watch countless fights to come. I've had those conversations with my elders about the golden years of boxing. Boxing's place in history and American culture is something I'm familiar with and appreciate.

There are a lot of scrubs right now showing up to be "Ultimate Fighters" right now and that does suck. A lot these guys do give it the "bar room brawl" feel. The top level guys are the ones that the sport should be judged by, not the scrubs. Nobody judges boxing by its scrubs in these comparisons.

[IX_Equilibrium]

when was the last time a film about fighting in a steel cage got major consideration for academy awards (rocky, cinderella man, million dollar baby, against the ropes, etc.)?


:lol :lol

Goddamn dude, you make a weak fucking argument. I as well as other MMA fans don't really give a fuck about how or where MMA will fit into Hollywood.

[IX_Equilibrium]

Bottom line: You're spouting off about MMA and you know NOTHING about it based on what you've said here. Boxing has been in decline for years and MMA is the fastest growing sport in the US right now. It's got the boxing people scared, otherwise they wouldn't even give it a second thought...

Exactly. I knew this guy didn't know what the fuck he was talking about when he started saying UFC had no Olympic level athletes. :rolleyes

To add to that bottom line, boxers know that they would get their asses beat if they would try to compete at the MMA level, which is another apspect that makes them feel threatened. I would love to see any boxer to step into the octagon and prove otherwise, but of course it probably won't happen.

[desflood]

Taken from UFCjunkie.com:

…Sean Sherk, the UFC’s lightweight champion, will be ringside to watch Mayweather try to lift the super welterweight boxing title from De La Hoya.

Mayweather has recently made a number of critical comments about the UFC and MMA. UFC president Dana White, who along with owner Lorenzo Fertitta will also be ringside, has agreed to make it worthwhile for Mayweather to prove his point if he gets past De La Hoya.

White has been irritated by Mayweather’s putdowns of MMA and has decided to challenge Mayweather to back his words.

“If Floyd is serious and he seriously wants to do this and he’s not shooting his mouth off, I’ll make him an offer that is definitely worth his while,” White said. “I don’t think he’d last three minutes with Sherk. He’d be beaten in three minutes, and pretty likely in under a minute, and it would probably be by stoppage or tap-out.”

Fertitta, who was once a member of the Nevada Athletic Commission, said, “Floyd knows he’d get his ass kicked.”


How many boxers have enough guts to show up at a UFC event and sit ringside?

[pussyface]

boxers know that they would get their asses beat if they would try to compete at the MMA level, which is another apspect that makes them feel threatened. I would love to see any boxer to step into the octagon and prove otherwise, but of course it probably won't happen.

it is arguable that boxers would get beat up in the UFC realm (maybe they would, maybe not, maybe some would win etc).

it is not even up for debate that UFCers would get humiliated and outclassed in the boxing realm, right?

[pussyface]

floyd mayweather jr vs. some mid-level UFC guy in octagon fight, i'll take floyd.

He would instantly be the greatest striker in UFC history the second he stepped in the ring for the first time (although obviously he would have huge weaknesses in other areas)

chuck liddell against a mid-level boxing prospect in a boxing match? im taking the unknown guy pretty easily, no?

also, does anyone dispute that mayweather would be the greatest/most talented striker in UFC history?

[LEONARD]

it is arguable that boxers would get beat up in the UFC realm (maybe they would, maybe not, maybe some would win etc).

it is undeniable that UFCers would get humiliated in the boxing realm.

All things equal (general skill level, weight class, etc):

Boxers would get owned in an MMA match.

MMA fighters would get owned in a boxing match.

This shouldn't even be a discussion, but Mayweather says otherwise. He would NEVER accept the challenge that the UFC has offered. Even if they offer him $15M...

[LEONARD]

floyd mayweather jr vs. some mid-level UFC guy in octagon fight, i'll take floyd.

He would instantly be the greatest striker in UFC history the second he stepped in the ring for the first time (although obviously he would have huge weaknesses in other areas)

chuck liddell against a mid-level boxing prospect in a boxing match? im taking the unknown guy pretty easily, no?

also, does anyone dispute that mayweather would be the greatest/most talented striker in UFC history?

A mid-level UFC LW would tap or GnP Mayweather...sorry dude...

Yes, he would be the greatest striker...but he'd probably set the record for quickest submission in UFC history too... :lol

[pussyface]

A mid-level UFC LW would tap or GnP Mayweather...sorry dude...


maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't.

i think his chances of pulling out a win would be significantly better than liddel's vs. a boxer (which would be roughly 0%)

mayweather could learn a competent guard/defense jones and have at the very least a nice outside chance to knock a player out. his opponent would have to respect him...he'd be "dangerous," if nothing else.

obviously, liddel would look outclassed and a fish out of water.

[LEONARD]

to knock a player out.

yEa boyeeeeeeeeee

[Kermit]

we're all missng a small point of why fm jr. will never step into the octagan, his hands are brittle and without boxing gloves his ability to strike would be seriously undermined. no tape, no padding equals not being able to do what he's famous for which is kicking ass with his fists. he might lay a combination but without his full strength (and while he's got some strength in his fists, everyone knows his true advantage is defense) he'd lose pretty quickly. this fight will never happen because of that one fact. maybe they could have to fights, one in the ring and one in the octogan. the athlete who wins faster in his respective sport wins the competition.

[LEONARD]

maybe they could have to fights, one in the ring and one in the octogan. the athlete who wins faster in his respective sport wins the competition.

Nobody in the UFC (or it's fans even) is saying that UFC fighters could hang in the boxing ring...

Mayweather is the one trashing the UFC and saying that MMA fighters get KO'd in seconds if a boxer got in their with them in an MMA match...

[IX_Equilibrium]

(maybe some would win etc).


No, they wouldn't.




it is not even up for debate that UFCers would get humiliated and outclassed in the boxing realm, right?

Who made the claim that a MMA fighter would do well in boxing?

Mayweather was the one that started talking shit about a boxer getting into the octagon. Of course he knows he would get taken to the ground and get the shit beat out of him, so I don't expect him to ever grow a pair and back up his talk.

[IX_Equilibrium]

A mid-level UFC LW would tap or GnP Mayweather.


A mid-level WEC or KOTC fighter would destroy Mayweather.

[LEONARD]

A mid-level WEC or KOTC fighter would destroy Mayweather.

True, but this guy doesn't know what WEC or KOTC means... ;)

[IX_Equilibrium]

True, but this guy doesn't know what WEC or KOTC means.)

Nor does he even have a decent base of knowledge concerning anything MMA to even have a valid opinion.

[LEONARD]

I know...

Maybe pussyface is Mike Freeman?? They sure sounds alike...and equally knowledgeable on MMA...
http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10162545/1

response articles
http://cbs.sportsline.com/mmaboxing/story/10164513
http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10164182

and the 2 authors go at it...I especially like the post by somebody on page 3 that references Freeman being fired from a job in 2004 for lying on his resume. OUCH...as if he wasn't being owned well enough on his MMA hot sports opinions... :lol
http://cbs.sportsline.com/mcc/messages/chrono/2397849

[pussyface]

...there are nothing but partisan ufc fanboys in this thread.

like i said, im by no means a ufc hater. it has its place in this world of ours.

...i just realize that, at the end of the day, its a sport that takes place in a metal cage and has been popularized by a trashy reality tv show on spiketv that has a little too much in common with "the real world" for my taste.

...it can be fun and all, but its not exactly classy stuff, guys. ill stick with boxing and leave it at that.

[IX_Equilibrium]

...classy stuff, guys. ill stick with boxing and leave it at that.


Yeah stick to it, because you obviously know fuck-all about MMA.

Have fun hugging the nuts of the eloquent Mayweather (now he's classy :lol ) and watch MMA continue to gain popularity, much to the chagrin of boxing cheerleaders like yourself.

[pussyface]

Have fun hugging the nuts of the eloquent Mayweather (now he's classy :lol ) and watch MMA continue to gain popularity, much to the chagrin of boxing cheerleaders like yourself.

not a mayweather fan, just a fan of the sport.

....I know this will seem ridiculous to the fanboys out there, but at the end of the day i think its doubtful that a sport that made its name with an MTV-Real World style reality TV show on SpikeTV will supplant boxing and gain the sort of traction in middle america that, for instance, the delahoya/mayweather fight has attained.

[IX_Equilibrium]

Boxing fans are about the last group of fans who should point the finger at any sport for lack of class, moron.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV8A7jCf4Cg&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDudXXZNPio&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuiVEJSTU6Y

[pussyface]

the enthusiasm that you guys defend your faggy little sport with is SO reminiscent of the way that poker fans reacted to the notion that their sport's popularity explosion was a fad whose status as the "it" game of the moment wasn't sustainable.

"this is the greatest game in the world and now everyone has finally caught on," they said. they thought they were right, just like you guys, because they are blinded by how much they enjoy the sport.

like poker, the hardcores will always be there for mma, but this thing is unlikely to sustain itself longterm much less continue to grow at its current impressive rate.

[pussyface]

[QUOTE=IX_Equilibrium]Boxing fans are about the last group of fans who should point the finger at any sport for lack of class, moron.
[QUOTE]

People who's favorite sport's popularity is attributed to a reality tv show on Spike TV are about the last group of fans who should point the finger at any sport for lack of class, moron.

[IX_Equilibrium]

[QUOTE=IX_Equilibrium]Boxing fans are about the last group of fans who should point the finger at any sport for lack of class, moron.
QUOTE]

People who's favorite sports popularity can be attributed to a reality tv show on spike tv are about the last group of fans who should point the finger at any sport for lack of class, moron.


You say that like "The Contender" never existed :lol

[IX_Equilibrium]

like poker, the hardcores will always be there for mma, but this thing is unlikely to sustain itself longterm much less continue to grow at its current impressive rate.


Well, after MMA being in the US for 14 years and continuing to grow, I think fans, fighters, and promoters alike are pretty happy by what has been accomplished so far.

And it is not only growing in the US but around the world, so there goes your asinine theory of the reality show.

[pussyface]

You say that like "The Contender" never existed :lol

it has (next to) nothing to do with the popularity of the sport of boxing.

MMA was popularized by that "The Ultimate Fighter" fagginess. As it exists today, there was no UFC before reality tv.

Much has been written on the subject.

[pussyface]

Well, after MMA being in the US for 14 years and continuing to grow, I think fans, fighters, and promoters alike are pretty happy by what has been accomplished so far.

And it is not only growing in the US but around the world, so there goes your asinine theory of the reality show.

haha, you make it sound as if it was 14 years of steady growth. you are not being intelectually honest here.

the UFC thing had some traction early, wained in popularity dramitically to the point of near financial ruin, and then was reborn via its reality tv theatrics. Its popularity has increased 10-fold since that gay little show, and I'm not even exagerating.


....can you even spell RED?

[IX_Equilibrium]

haha, you make it sound as if it was 14 years of steady growth. you are not being intelectually honest here.

the UFC thing had some traction early, wained in popularity dramitically to the point of near financial ruin, and then was reborn via its reality tv theatrics. Its popularity has increased 10-fold since that gay little show, and I'm not even exagerating.


....can you even spell RED?

Again, your ignorance shines through with each pathetic post. The UFC was reborn because of the rules implemented and the adherance to the state athletic commisions after Zuffa took it over from SEG. Ever since then, the UFC has increased its PPV revenues and attendance, way BEFORE TUF.

You keep bringing up TUF, like it is what it made MMA. You think PRIDE was massively popular in Japan because of TUF? There is no Spike TV in Japan, genius.

Your arguments are pathetic and weak and you are trying to cling onto anything you can to deny the fact that Boxing has been trending down, and MMA has been trending up.

If your arguments were valid, I'd be glad to listen. But from your 1st post of "no olympic caliber athletes in MAA", you are just plain ignorant and dead wrong concerning anything MMA. If you want to debate, learn your facts before you try to argue about anything.

[IX_Equilibrium]

MMA was popularized by that "The Ultimate Fighter" fagginess. As it exists today, there was no UFC before reality tv.



Another dead wrong post. You said 5 posts ago you were going to stick to boxing, yet you continue to embarrass yourself.

[IX_Equilibrium]

it has (next to) nothing to do with the popularity of the sport of boxing.


Right. Boxing would never have something to do with a "gay" reality show. :rolleyes

[cornbread]

You keep bringing up TUF, like it is what it made MMA. You think PRIDE was massively popular in Japan because of TUF? There is no Spike TV in Japan, genius.
This very true. Vale Tudo events were selling out arenas in Japan long before "tuf" AND Pride.

Pussyface, for one of my favorite examples of mma in a movie you'll need to go back before "Rocky" to 1973. The opening scene of "Enter the Dragon" has Bruce Lee fighting in a mma fight. They use fingerless gloves, neutral attire and a neutral setting. The fight starts with some stand up and then ends up on the ground where Lee submits his opponent using an armbar.

[cornbread]

Here's a few Olympic MMAers:

Randy Couture - 3 Time Olympic Alternate
Matt Lindland - Olympic Silver Medalist
Hideheko Yoshida - Olympic Gold Medalist
Rulon Gardner - Olympic Gold Medalist
Naoyo Ogawa - Olympic Silver Medalist
Isvan Majoros - Olympic Gold Medalist
Kid Yamamoto - 2008 Olympic Freestyle Wrestling Competitor
Mark Coleman - Olympic Competitor

[ALVAREZ6]

http://www.fcfighter.com/PICTURES/UFC42/wi-sean-sherk.jpg

http://www.fcfighter.com/PICTURES/UFC30/seansherk.jpg

How is Sherk only 155 lbs????

[IX_Equilibrium]

Those pics look like when he was at welterweight.

Edit: Yep, the 1st pic is from UFC 42 when he fought Matt Hughes.

[IX_Equilibrium]

Floyd Mayweather Jr. Apologizes

“I apologize to the UFC, sometimes we say things that we shouldn’t have said and I’m man enough to admit that. I apologize to the Fertittas, Lorenzo and Dana White (UFC owners). I respect MMA fighters and what they do in the UFC. I have no plans of fighting in mixed martial arts.”

http://ufcjunkie.com/2007/05/07/floyd-mayweather-jr-victorious-apologetic/

I'm glad he did that being that everyone knew he would not back up his talk.

[LEONARD]

but its not exactly classy stuff, guys. ill stick with boxing and leave it at that.

LOL...is boxing "classy" ??? Oh, I forgot...it's the "sweet science" with tons of history...and corruption, dead fighters, ears bitten off, rapists, etc...

Boxing will never have the level of sportsmanship exhibitied between fighters in MMA...

Boxing will never have fighters as educated as they are in MMA...

You brought blanks to this gunfight pussyface...you know nothing about MMA. FACT. TUF was big as far as bringing in new fans and getting the sport more exposure, but it was far from the beginning of the sport in the US...

[LEONARD]

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=10879

Mayweather/De La Hoya: Boxing Blows It Again

05-07-07 - By Matthew Hurley:

In spite of the fact that the De La Hoya – Mayweather bout turned out to be a pretty good scrap that left even marginal boxing fans happy, the card itself begged the question, “why does boxing keep shooting itself in the gut?” This was an event that could have been used to showcase tons of new up-and-coming prospects on the under card. Instead pay per view buyers were cheated. Only two bouts, the rousing Rey Bautista – Sergio Medina junior featherweight fight and the pedestrian featherweight bout between Rocky Juarez and Jose Hernandez were offered to the buying public. On top of that small sundae, pay per view buyers were demanded upon to pony up ten dollars more than the usual $45.00. So you paid more and got less.

The strange thing is that the card was promoted by Golden Boy Promotions. Oscar and his company has a herd of terrific young prospects in their stable and instead of marching them out in front of the world’s stage, a stage boxing hasn’t had in quite some time, they opted not to.

Why? If Oscar is so keen on promoting the sport, why not use this opportunity to really grab the public by the balls and show them why boxing is still a viable mainstream sport. And it was on Cinco De Mayo to boot!

A lot was made of the idea that this fight would make or break boxing in the mainstream media. For whatever reason, sports analysts who cover multiple sports give no credence to the fact that while boxing may not be as popular in American culture as it once was it is still hugely popular within the Mexican and Puerto Rican populous, and overseas. Joe Calzaghe’s last fight against Peter Manfredo sold out a thirty thousand seat arena. A pretty good Irish fighter like John Duddy can still sell thousands of tickets at Madison Square Garden. Local fights in my neck of the woods, Boston, always gather terrific crowds of loyal fight fans. But if there isn’t a big fight every few months, or there isn’t a De La Hoya or a Mike Tyson to dominate sports headlines, the sport is either dead or fringe.

But those who run boxing, from promoters like Golden Boy Promotions to cable networks like HBO, which has consistently dropped the ball in recent years, are as much to blame. Constant mismatches and too many unworthy pay per views have weeded out the casual fan.

And then there is the UFC. Most hard-nosed boxing fans turn their noses up at Ultimate Fighting – and most of them have never really sat down and watched the sport. Regardless of what you think of the UFC, boxing promoters should use the UFC broadcasts as a template for their own. Basically the UFC is providing to its paying customers what boxing used to provide twenty years ago. If you pay $40 bucks for a UFC card you’re going to get upwards of five fights and all the fighters are the top contenders in their respective divisions.

Dana White, the UFC president, understood why boxing was floundering when he created the UFC. His plan was simple – and simple is always the best way to go. Put the best fighters in together and then load up the card with fights to keep the customer satisfied. White, to his great credit, even put potential pay per view events on free television (Spike TV) when previous pay per views were disappointments. Don King, Bob Arum and Oscar De La Hoya could learn from this guy. Ironically, White is just doing what King and Arum used to do.

“It was a huge fucking fight,” White said, in regards to De La Hoya and Mayweather. “But when you really break it down, everything I’ve said over the last six years is true. I take the blueprint of boxing as to what not to do. You’ve got to help grow this thing. Instead, the powers that be in boxing have reached their hand in, ripped the life out and stuck it into their pocket.”

“They live fight to fight, not thinking about the future. They build up one fight instead of building up a card. They should have been creating new stars off this fight. Oscar De La Hoya promoted the fight. He owns Golden Boy Promotions. Oscar should have all his guys fighting. They should have stacked this card. It’s your card, secure the future of your sport. But they don’t think that way.”

White’s point is well taken. But is it greed or just stupidity? Or do the powers that be feel that the boxing public will purchase any piece of shit they’re offered? One of the next pay per views will be Bernard Hopkins – Winky Wright which even fans of both fighters have to be saying to themselves, “my god, that’s going to be a snoozefest.” But if you want to watch it you’ll have to pay nearly $50.00 and, guaranteed, the under card will be terrible.

Sometimes I think boxing fans, and I’m firmly established within the club, are masochists. Why do we stand for this nonsense? And then when friends or the fella sitting next to you at the bar denigrates the sport in any way we leap to its defense when we know that it could be so much better.

I watched the De La Hoya – Mayweather fight with a close buddy, who is a huge UFC fan, and we both thoroughly enjoyed it. But my friend, whose sports idol, as with me, is Thomas Hearns, kind of shrugged his shoulders when it was over.

“It ain’t like the old days,” he said, draining his bottle of beer.

I wanted to counter him with something like, “What about Erik Morales and Manny Pacquiao?” But I didn’t because he’s one of those former boxing fans who just gave up. Sure, he’ll watch the fights with me or go to the arenas for a live card but the passion isn’t there anymore.

He’d rather watch the UFC.

[LEONARD]

none of those appearances are any more a-list than what someone in the wwf could get, ya know?

Chuck Liddell will be on the cover of ESPN the Magazine soon in the next couple months. When he was on the cover of Men’s Fitness, it was the biggest selling issue they've ever had...

Randy Couture will be on the cover of Sports Illustrated this summer...

[mardigan]

not a mayweather fan, just a fan of the sport.

....I know this will seem ridiculous to the fanboys out there, but at the end of the day i think its doubtful that a sport that made its name with an MTV-Real World style reality TV show on SpikeTV will supplant boxing and gain the sort of traction in middle america that, for instance, the delahoya/mayweather fight has attained.
The popularity of the sport allowed the tv show to be made, not the other way around. It was becoming huge before the show, then Dana being the smart business man he is, saw his oppurtunity with a new channel. Hate UFC as much as you want, but it gives its mans much more of a show, for less money, it doesnt take a genius to figure out why it has become as popular. Boxing rarely gives its fans something to get excited about

[LEONARD]

I know...

Maybe pussyface is Mike Freeman?? They sure sounds alike...and equally knowledgeable on MMA...
http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10162545/1

Poor Freeman...he's getting shredded... :lol

Friday, May 4, 2007

Bashing the UFC for no good reason

For a meager $54.95, one can bear witness to boxing’s resurrection when “The Golden Boy” Oscar De La Hoya faces off with “Pretty Boy” Floyd Mayweather, Jr. on Saturday.

Or at least that’s what some are saying, one in particular being CBS Sportsline’s Mike Freeman. But rather than focus on how great this bout, these fighters and the “sweet science” are and can be, he decides to inform readers of how boxing - despite its pitfalls - will always be far better than, “the worst league ever invented, the UFC.”

What transpires is a piece eloquently titled “De La Hoya-Mayweather will separate boxing from thuggish UFC.”

This coming as he boasts of a fight built up - marvelously I’ll admit - by HBO’s “24/7″ series in which Floyd Mayweather, Jr. tossed out as many F-bombs as jabs with his young son right next to him and his uncle Roger Mayweather proudly compared his courtroom triumph to OJ Simpson’s.

While just about every paragraph in the piece is infuriating to mixed-martial arts fans and common-sense supporters alike, it is one in particular that is simply disgraceful.

“Mixed-martial arts will never be as good as boxing on its worst day. Many of the ultimates are nothing but thugs and ruffians. All that league has done is take a few former nightclub bouncers, knuckle crackers and parolees, put on some fancy TV graphics and told them, ‘Kick the other guy in the nuts,’” he writes.

The old high-school jock in me wants to retort by saying someone should kick Freeman in the nuts - and then raising my hand. But the journalist in me is simply embarrassed by the fact that I share the same job title as this guy. I’m really nothing special, I scrape by as a sports editor for a small paper and have been privileged enough to write for Hall of Fame along side journalists whose resumes I couldn’t duplicate in my wildest dreams. Nonetheless, I take pride in writing, in particular, writing about sports.

People, sports fans, they’ve a long history in tossing out unfounded insults that couldn’t be further from the truth. Writers on the other hand have an obligation to at least attempt to be responsible in what they print - even if it is an opinion piece.

And in the aforementioned paragraph, that most certainly is not the case.

For starters, boxing on its worst day has seen death, rape charges atop never-ending lists of criminal charges, fighters who can’t speak coherently and riots - one that I can remember being caused when one fighter kept punching, “the other guy in the nuts.” Hence, casting “many” of the combatants in mixed-martial arts as “thugs and ruffians” and “former nightclub bouncers, knuckle crackers and parolees” is ludicrous enough, but when comparing them to boxers, it’s just plain stupid.

Chuck Liddell has an accounting degree. Tito Ortiz is a savvy businessman. Randy Couture is a former Olympic alternate.

Growing up watching boxing matches on HBO and wherever else you could find them, 90% of the fighter profiles seemed to be about guys who would’ve been in jail or dead if they weren’t getting swindled for millions by Don King as pro fighters.

Of course they’re not all like that. De La Hoya is pure class. I’ve talked with his trainer for the fight, Freddie Roach, and he’s about as nice a guy as you’ll find.

Not everyone associated with boxing is a criminal, but if you’re going to compare MMA and boxing, boxing’s clearly winning the orange jumpsuit battle. And Freeman, who at one point refers to himself as being part of the mainstream media, clearly is comparing the sports.

Of the impending bout-to-save-boxing, he bellows: “It is good vs. evil, Halle Berry vs. Courtney Love, true sport against the mosh pit of sweat and bloodied skull fractures known as ultimate fighting.”

Nope, it’s just De La Hoya vs. Mayweather. One is elegance, the exception to the rule in boxing, and the other is Mayweather, the best in the ring and the worst display of respect out of it. It’s going to make a whole heckuva lot of money, people will have boxing on the brain for a while and then it’ll fizzle out again. The UFC won’t though. It’s here to stay, just like those who call it barbaric and will never understand its appeal.

Freeman uses gross and unfounded stereotypes rooted in ignorance and false assumption. Not all boxers are crooks and not all mixed-martial artists (none that I’ve come across as a matter of fact) are anything like he colors them.

Not all sports writers, or members of the mainstream media, are out of touch when it comes to the athletic world they cover, either. But every so often an irresponsible article like this comes around to make the general public think the contrary.

Whether people want it to or not, Saturday’s fight probably won’t save anything, but any fight fan - boxing, MMA, you name it - should be looking forward to it. I’m excited to see it. I’m just not going to shell out the $55 bucks to see one fight and an unheard-about undercard. I’ll just wait three weeks, pay $15 less and watch Liddell and Quinton Jackson duke it out, right along with a bunch of other “thugs” and “parolees.”

Share This
by Grant Gordon at 4:16 pm

[mardigan]

Great article Leo

[ALVAREZ6]

Tito Ortiz a savy business man?

[LEONARD]

He certainly markets himself well...he's far from the best but he's one of the biggest draws. Him and Rashad are the main event over TWO title fights...

[pussyface]

...let the UFC fanboy circlejerk continue....

[cornbread]

Great point Pussyface!

[LEONARD]

...let the UFC fanboy circlejerk continue....

:lol :lol

[IX_Equilibrium]

...let the UFC fanboy circlejerk continue....


You're the one who opened this can of worms, douchbag. Don't start crying because you got crushed with your uneducated and pathetic arguments.

[SharkMeNow]

I've read just about enough about how fucking great boxing is.....boxing isnt shit compared to other combat sports, it's one-dimensional fighting and guys like Mayweather would get the fucking shit kicked out of them outside of boxing. K1,Pride,UFC,any B Class fighter from these 3 organizations as well as countless others would kick any world class boxer's ass in a fight that wasn't under boxing rules.

It doesn't matter if it's in a cage or a ring, under vale tudo rules any boxer would get fucking destroyed. Anybody with any fighting experience will tell you that boxing is only a small part of the package and that boxing alone cannot win a REAL FIGHT. Do you wanna see what happens when a "World Class Olympian" in boxing goes up against something as tame as a K1 fighter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edz99Oua4Uo


thats what happens, the boxer gets his fucking ass kicked. boxers are only trained to punch, and I dont care how good you can punch youre boxers legs aint gonna take a leg kick from anybody with a slight muay thai background.

im sick of all you fucking historians with your "ali this, frasier that" bullshit and all this about the history of boxing. these men were great boxers but thats about it, ali would get his fucking ass handed to him by any of the gracies.

boxing is over, there are no superstars and its about as boring to watch as golf is, especially when compared to the mind games and brutality of MMA. all you old men and historians need to shut the fuck up and realize that your heros would get their asses kicked by real warriors.

[SharkMeNow]

boxing only generates such high revenue because of it's past and all the money that is connected to it right now. give MMA 10 years and they will be where boxing is now and stay there,and the real heavyweight champion of the world will be an MMA fighter and boxing will just be considered an offshoot of MMA.

if it werent for ali,frasier,tyson, all these names that are long gone, boxing wouldnt have all that prestige and history. guys like the gracies have accomplished way more incredible things in their sports than these guys did and they arent recognized for it because MMA is still on the fringe of being a major american sport.

[Fillmoe]

man fuck MMA! that shit will be gone next summer..... no ones gonna even give a shit about it.... boxing been around forever its just in a slump right now.....

[IX_Equilibrium]

man fuck MMA! that shit will be gone next summer..... no ones gonna even give a shit about it.



We got fucking Nostradamus over here :rolleyes

[dirk4mvp]

man fuck MMA! that shit will be gone next summer..... no ones gonna even give a shit about it.... boxing been around forever its just in a slump right now.....


:lol

[BeerIsGood!]

I enjoy the occasional MMA bouts and I like to watch the sport and believe that it will have a nice future, but it won't come close to attaining the world wide draw of boxing, at least any time in the even somewhat distant future. Boxing has been in form for generations, and is the true underdog story (much like MMA is becoming on a much smaller scale). Both offer people from low class, broken backgrounds an arena to compete and possibly excell both professionally and financially in ways they couldn't otherwise. Boxing has lost many of the huge names that were prevelant in the heavy weight division over the past several years, but there are still great fighters left in the sport. I'm looking forward to possible fights such as Joe Calzaghe v. Jermaine Taylor and many other matchups that are great for true boxing fans. Just like MMA will always have it's core fans that know and appreciate the sport inside out, boxing will as well. The difference is that boxing's will be much bigger for decades to come. Many of the fad, bandwagon fans from the Tyson days are gone, but the sport still thrives due to the true fans.

[ATRAIN]

man fuck MMA! that shit will be gone next summer..... no ones gonna even give a shit about it.... boxing been around forever its just in a slump right now.....


I would love to see him say that a MMA fighter. lol.........pussy

[LEONARD]

man fuck MMA! that shit will be gone next summer..... no ones gonna even give a shit about it.... boxing been around forever its just in a slump right now.....

:lol

Gone next summer...pure genius!!! :lol


Both offer people from low class, broken backgrounds an arena to compete and possibly excell both professionally and financially in ways they couldn't otherwise.

Many MMA fighters are college educated guys...quite a few of them wrestling in college. Your point applies much more to boxing than MMA...